Pete -

I commend you for thinking a bit deeper about this game and this team.

This post and the post about Bergeson throwing to Gregg Zaun in his debut should give O's fans some really good insight on the future of the team.

I think a lot of our fans are a little bit unrealistic about this team's ceiling this year, to be honest. Even with the way things have gone so far (which I think would have to be considered 'pretty well'), I still think that 70-73 wins is this team's realistic top-end.

With that in mind, it's just beyond silly to do anything besides what they're doing. Pie is a low-risk, high reward prospect, and the only place we can put him is on the ML roster. Let him prove that he can't do it, and then sneak him through waivers. By then Nolan's got a half-season under his belt, and he can get himself a couple hundred at-bats to get his feet wet before showtime in '10. That season's offense has the potential to be flat-out SCARY with perhaps one power stick added at 1B (whether that's resigning Huff or adding a quality free agent).

In Andy I trust.

I've been saying since the begining of the season the O's should give Pie the shot at LF and let Reimold develop in Norfolk. Well Pie's had his chance and isn't getting it done. And Reimold looks as ready as he's going to be. So I say bring him up May 1st (with Wieters?) and turn him loose in left.

Pete,

Is it really that complicated? I mean, you would not bring Reimold up for a couple weeks and see how he compares to Pie during his first few weeks before deciding (no brainer) that he is better in all aspects of the game? I mean this experiment is a joke and we say "200 at bats" thinking that something will change with this kid, but the reality is he'll still bat .212 and give us headaches. Honestly, I think Reimold is going to be a stud up here, but as long as Pie is in the lineup you gotta root for him to succeed. I just doubt it will happen sadly. Oh, and Baez is Banderas' twin brother!

Pete,

Well said!

we have to stick w/ pie until july. no matter what he does, we keep playing him until about the all star break. then we look at reimold. patience is a virtue.

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Pete's reply: I don't think July. I'm thinking late May or June.

Sorry pete-I disagree with Pie getting so much leeway.He has had chances w/the Cubs-an easier division than al east and has shown a profound ineptitude for defense ,offense and throwing.He overuns hits,he gets bad jumps,worse reads and looks like an Obama bowling partner in the field.He hasn't a clue at bat.he has no instinct for base running,doesn't throw to the proper base or the cutoff.What does he do right?Somebody clue us in -or get your glasses checked.

Pete-Pie plays ball worse than I type-But I am not getting paid for it!We have wasted too much time on him-as well as a couple of pitchers.Eaton pitched great last time-that will get him a pass for the year-Bet he doesn't have more than 3 quality starts all year!

Pete, I always enjoy your rationale, and will admitidley feel silly sometimes when I get too worked up about the O's and you put things into perspective. Having said that I will never agree with anyone that this team should be wasting their time with the Pie Experiment. Again at the end of this piece I see the mention of "the great raw talent". Felix Pie in 342 MLB at bats has hit .215 with 4 home runs. Never slugged higher than .330 and never had an OPS higer than .600. Looking at his minor league stats over several years, if you excuse one 220 at bat stint in triple A in 2007 where he managed to hit .360 (by some miracle of god), his best minor league season seems to be .283 with 15 homers in a full 600 at bat year in 06'. Not exactly the next coming of Albert Pujols. I don't know why it is that scouts and front office people fall in love with certain players. I've watched Pie play and to me I don't see a great talent at all. I see a 24-25 year old man who looks terrified to hit behind in the count so he chases foolishly after everything. A man who is terrified to play the field who can't trust his instincts tracking a ball so he circles round and round like a decapitated chicken. (and by the way plays way too deep all the time), and is afraid to call off infielders when he should.
Isn't it possible that Pie just doesn't have the mental makeup to play in the major leagues. And at this point (342 MLB at bats) how much farther can you go with him?
I like McPhail but I honestly think that he and other GMs consistantly hurt their teams by trying to prove how smart they are with some "diamond in the rough" like Pie. The Pie and Freel trades this offseason were completely unnecessary and are hurting the O's chance for any improvement this year. With Jones development and all the runs he's scoring that alone should be putting us way over where we were last year or the year before. (assuming you're getting the same consistant production from Roberts, Markakis, Huff, Mora). It's the guys McPhail went and got at the bottom of the lineup that are costing this team wins at this stage in the season, every bit as much as the pitching.

How many times are we going to take the Cubs retreads? How about Cory Patterson? Wasn't he out of the same mold? Why would we think that Pie is going to do any better here than he did on Chicago? Do we have better coaches, a lesser division? In both cases, no. The Crow is a lot of hype from the O's P.R. machine. He is no better a hitting coach than anyone else in the majors. Let's go with Montanez and Reimold and see what we've got.

I think Pie at this point won't gain a lot from being in the minors. He should really be our fourth OF/ defensive replacement for all three OF positions over Ryan Freel.

Reimold also should definitely be our LF. I think people know about his bat, but they don't realize that he's a plus fielder with a great arm. This should help ease the transition to the majors.

Unfortunately with Mora and Freel coming back there is a bit of a stopgap in terms of roster spots. Maybe it's time to consider moving them, one way or another . . .

Got to say, I agree with you. As much as I want to see Reimold up here, I want him to get some real experience in AAA. I want to get through multipe teams multiple times and see him make adjustments. Everyone needs to keep in mind that He has one month of playing time in AAA. Another month is only going to help him.

The difference is that Reimold is home grown, was signed by the Orioles in 2005 and has progressed through the farm system. After all, the goal of the team is to sign and develop players and bring them to the major league level. After Reimold it is not inconceivable that by 2011 the team could field 5 or 6 homegrown position players starting on the major league roster. The concern with Reimold was his durability and it appears that he is answering those questions with his performance and his health. I have seen Reimold play and he reminds me a lot of a former Oriole outfielder by the name of Gary Roenicke both in physical stature and style, although I think Reimold has a little more raw power than Roenicke did, and a little stronger arm.

Pie is, in essence, a failed prospect from the Cubs organization, and they would not have given up on him if in their wildest dreams they ever thought that he would be a productive major league player. The difference between Pie and Adam Jones is obvious, as the Mariners did not want to give him up in the Bedadrd trade. Jones is younger and has shown steady improvement since he got here. The Orioles are scuffling right now, and Pie not only can't hit but has shown very poor instincts defensively. If one part of a player's game is slumping, then in order to stay in the lineup they need to contribute somehow.

I think the real issue is that Andy Macphail feels that he may have pulled off the steal of the century from the Cubs and wnats to give Pie every chance to prove him wrong. It's really just a matter of time until Pie plays himself out the the lineup and off of the roster.

Good perspective, Pete.

However, Pie hasn't contributed in any single way- hitting, bunting, defense, and baserunning have all been below par for a major leaguer. I'm willing to give Pie the month of May to improve, but should Reimold continue his tear for that same time period, I think it's time for him to compete with Montanez for LF.

What are the odds that Reimold and Weiters both come to the Yard by early June???

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Pete's reply: I'd say 30 percent.

Peter,

It's a noble quest you have undertaken--to have sports fans think with logic instead of blind emotion. I'm not sure you'll succeed, but best of luck!

As for the Pie/ Reimold situation, it's just a hunch I have, but for me and I imagine others, there's a feeling with Pie that he didn't really earn his shot at LF. Whereas Reimold is an O's product, Pie paid his dues with a different organization, so I think that's led some fans (perhaps myself included) to prefer Reimold over Pie. And Pie didn't receive his roster spot because he earned it, but because he simply had no options left. And that's why I don't think a ton of fans would call for Reimold's head if he struggles like Pie.

To me I see Pie play and I don't see the talent everyone talks about. He's small and in my opinion has look just straight lost in the outfield on multiple occasions. I however do think that it's worth giving him some more time, I'd hate to get nothing for him though.

Pete,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you normally shoot for the left field spot to be manned by a big run producer? Pie, even at his best realized potential, seems like the slick fielding, light hitting type. More the classic center fielder, which he was originally. Left field isn't the right place for him, and thankfully, we're in great shape in center now.

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Pete's reply: Depends on the rest of the lineup. If you're CF is a big swinger, you can afford to have a defensive/speed guy in left.

I dont think fans are being impatient. I just think they realize Reimold and Montanez have a higher ceiling. I believe Pie is never going to be more than a .250 hitter with a good glove. From what I have seen from him in left field so far I am not sure how he got that great fielder label. I am just curious to know what the O's expect from him. Would Pie being a .270 batter be enough for him to win the job full time. I dont think so. I think with Reimold and Montanez behind him the bar must be set a lot higher. I say if is still batting under .200 in june then you try and pass him through waivers and bring up Reimold and Montanez to split time in LF.

GO O's !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think you're right in that Pie needs at least two months of regular starts to see if he can establish himself, rather than the spot starting he endured with Chicago. It can take time and patience to allow talent to come out. Let's not forget that Cal started out terribly in the bigs in his first two months and that's not uncommon. Quality organizations don't base their judgments on young players on spring training or a limited sample size and the Orioles have unfortunately done that for too long. Let Reimold spend some time in AAA and possibly learn to adjust when those pitchers adjust to him and that will make his transition to the majors smoother. On the other hand, I never would have traded for Pie. I thought we should have traded Olsen for MI help or minor league depth and let Montanez or Salazar get two months to try and establish themselves. If Pie fails I'd still give them first crack at a starting job unless Reimold continues to absolutely tear up AAA.

Nope, my guess is that Nolan is not going to need individual attention on fielding and hitting on a dailly basis.

After EIGHT seasons of pro ball Felix Pie still does. And don't mention the center to left switch, he has played the outfield his entire career and never did any work in left/right? He never heard of cross training?

Well Pete, you sure are "catching it" for supporting Pie. I too believe it was an ill advised trade, but now that we are stuck with him....By June 15 he will either make a contribution, or he should be able to pass waivers. Let Reimold have another month or so. He will cool off, just let him get thru it and back on track, then give him a call.Pie is a mystery. What CFer can't make the adjustment to LF, and we don't have a Green Monster out there. Brady Anderson was a decant CFer but a great LF. Russ Snyder could get the job done in CF, but with Blair in CF and Snyder in LF the O's shut down anything hit out there. I fear Pie just isn't going to make it. If he doesn't make it by June 15, send him down, if someone claims him admit we made a mistake and move on. If he gets thru waivers and plays the rest of the yr at Norfolk, he had better shine next yr in Spring training or good bye Pie.

Pie can run and the people in the know (?) love speed. Of course, you can always sign someone off the AAU International Track Team if you want speed. The object of the game has always been hitting the ball, throwing it, and catching it. Pie apparently has problems with each of these three essential elements of the game. It's obvious that Andy MacPhail is requiring Trembley to play Pie and I'm embarrassed for both Pie and MacPhail watching Pie being forcefed into the lineup. I remember when the Phillies stuck with Mike Schmidt his first year in the bigs when he hit a buck ninety with 20 homers. The was a difference, however. You could see that Schmidt was a quality baseball player and you can see is not. I've been watching the Pirates' Njer Morgan play by way of comparison. He is everything MacPhail would like to Pie to be. Morgan can hit, he runs the bases with intelligence, and is one heck of an outfielder. If MacPhail wants a Morgan type player why not make an offer for the real deal instead of pretending he's already sitting out there in the O's outfield.

Pie is 24 and 308 major league at bats.
Reimold is 25, has 0 major league at bats and only recently played above AA.
Montanez is 27, has 124 major league at bats and only recently played above AA.

If either of Reimold or Montanez were much younger or were considered to have higher potential that Pie, I would get the impatience with Pie. But neither do, and moreover, Reimold can be kept in the minors and Pie can't be sent there. This season will not end with the Orioles in the playoffs regardless of who is in left field, so why not see if Pie's potential can become reality in Baltimore rather than somewhere else?

Peter, Just one other thought. In order to win, aren't we supposed to be playing the best player available at that position. Is Pie a better player than Reimold? I know he's not a better player that Montanez. He's not even a better player than Gary Payton, either. So what's the real deal here? MacPhail's ego? If it is his ego, then he (MacPhail) is doing the team and his other players a disservice. It's kind of like some kid starting on the high school team because his ol'man's paying off the coach.

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Pete's reply: I think you're over-simplifying it. The object of the game is to put the best team on the field over a certain period of time. If you're in the playoffs, that period of time is five or seven games. If you're in contention, that period of time is one season. If you're going to finish fourth or fifth for the 12th straight season, that period of time could be two or three years. It's just not as simple as saying one guy is better than another today. Who's going to be better next year? Is it possible that both are going to be on the team in some capacity? It's about development this year, perhaps more so than winning. Next year, it might be the opposite. After that, fans have to hope it's about each individual year.

Reimold is reminding the organization on a daily basis, that they should have cut Jay Payton August 1st, and evaluated him during the last two months of the season.

Perhaps if they had been playing him everyday in LF during the 2008 season, instead of RF - that promotion would have been easier to make.

During this 2009 season where the O's can not contend... I continue to believe you have to play the 24 year old Felix Pie as much as possible. Pie has performed extremely well in both AA, and AAA, especially when you account for his age.
If the O's want to get Reimold everyday Major League at-bats in 2009, they have decisions to make.

1) With a system with limited positional prospects... do we give up on the notion of giving Felix Pie 350-450 Major League at-bats this year? An awful lot of the city has decided that based on 50 or so at-bats... that Pie can not play at the Major League level... personally, I am not sure why those 50 at-bats this year... and 260 at-bats with the Cubs at ages 22, and 23 mean more than his entire professional career... but that opinion is out there.

2) Are we going to look to bring Aubrey Huff back in 2010? His contract expires after 2009... if we are not looking to bring him back... why not look to move him now? (Actually, why were we not active in trying to trade him in July 2008, during a career season?)

3) If Huff was traded... do we believe that either Scott, or Reimold could be moved to 1st, and reasonably productive defensively for the year? Scott played 1 game at 1st during ST... I do not believe Reimold has worked at all at the position.

4) Would/should the team consider trading Scott, and inserting Reimold as the everyday DH?
The easy decision would be to say to bench/release Pie, and replace him with Reimold... but that is rather short-sighted...
Pie may never reach his ceiling, but at age 24, and based off his existing accomplishments at the AA, and AAA levels... it is possible.
Better to continue to give him time, and move Huff, if Huff is not in the organizations' plans after the 2009 season.

Maybe Pie develops, maybe he does not… the important thing is providing him with regular playing time and seeing how he adjusts on a month-to-month basis.
People saying 50 at-bats has definitively shown what he is, just do not know baseball.

He just turned 24 on Feb 8th… In 2006, he was Baseball America's 27th best prospect… in 2007, he was BA's 49th prospect.

Look at his AAA numbers the last two years at Ages 22, and 23. Even when you adjust for the PCL, the overall production can not be ignored.

You do not ignore the 260 Major League at-bats in 2007, and 2008… but you evaluate those numbers in context. It was 260 combined at-bats over two seasons, for a 22, and 23 year old….

2008 AAA - 335 at-bats, 802 OPS, 96 hits, 20 doubles, 5 triples, 10 homers, 55 rbi, 11 steals, 7 caught stealing, 54 k's, 23 walks, 287 avg, 336 onbase, 466 slugging

2007 AAA - 229 at-bats, 973 OPS, 83 hits, 9 doubles, 5 triples, 9 homers, 43 rbi, 9 steals, 6 caught stealing, 40 k's, 19 walks, 362 avg, 410 onbase, 563 slugging

2007 & 2008 combined MLB stats - 260 at-bats, 615 OPS, 58 hits, 11 doubles, 4 triples, 3 homers, 30 rbi, 11 steals, 1 caught stealing, 72 k's, 21 walks, 223 avg, 284 onbase, 331 slugging

Pie 2009 Projected - 270 batting avg, 12 homers, 60 rbi, 738 OPS, 320 on-base, 418 slugging, 35 walks, 140 k's, 20 doubles, 7 triples, 15 steals, 7 caught stealing

I think they should give Pie until the All-Star break, at the very least. Pie has been absolutely HATED by the fans since he arrived at spring training, and I think that is really unfair. I mean, did the guy drop a deuce in Baltimore Harbor or what? I just don't get the vitriol.

There is very little risk having him play a couple more months. Reimold and Montanez are not going anywhere. Let's show some patience and let this thing play out. Give the guy a fair chance to fulfill his promise.

They should trade Freel for any level of prospect. He just doesn't fit on the roster.

I think the main issue with Reimold vs. Pie is that Reimold is a home grown guy fans have been waiting to see. Pie has quite simply never proven that he can play at this level, while Reimold hasn't had his shot. It's not as though Reimold is 21 and just getting started. He's 25, and the time has come to bring him up, especially with his hot start in the minors. Since this is obviously a year in which the Orioles aren't going to contend, I think it's natural to want to see the homegrown talent instead of retreads from other organizations.

Pete, you have been preaching patience, and I mostly agree, but what has Pie shown to make you believe he is ever going to be even a serviceable major leaguer? I don't see why it is incumbent upon the Orioles to play someone who isn't a product of their own system when he is not getting the job done. We have invested nothing in Pie (Olson was never part of the plan) but we have invested time into Reimold. Yeah, it's less than a month in and there is plenty of time to see what guys like Reimold can do, but I just think it makes sense from a baseball perspective as well as public relations to bring up Reimold ASAP.

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Pete's reply: I'm not impressed, but that doesn't mean I would pull the plug on this experiment right now.

I personally would love to see Pie start in LF for 3 weeks straight weeks and see what he will do when he knows he will be in the line up. I don't think anyone can see Felix has been given enough time in Baltimore to say pull the plug. He might not develop into anything, but no one will know if he doesn't get the ABs.

I haven't been impressed with Felix so far, but we are only 6 series deep into the season and he isn't getting the ABs to make a reasonable call. What he did or didn't do in the Cubs system is irreverent to me, as I want to see what he can do in Baltimore and if in a reasonable amount of a time, he is still shaky in the OF and at the plate, the very least we can say is we gave him a fair shot and didn't work out.

It's very basic and simple - Reimold will be treated with the same impatience and second-guessing that Markakis was treated to, and he will have his loyal supporters. First of all, that is the nature of the modern baseball fan. Secondly, that is the current nature of the general Orioles fan.

Markakis is the bloodstone. Everyone wants Reimold to succeed. He will struggle, but hopefully he adjusts and excels as did Markakis, relative to his talent. But to expect any different is out of touch with reality, and what is already an established procedure among fans.

Where oh where are you now Garrett Olson??

I hated the Pie deal as much as I hated the Corey Patterson deal. Patterson looks like Carlos Beltran standing next to Pie

Here is a little comparison of Jones and Pie's minor league stats. These are only in the minors - no major league numbers are included. They aren't terribly different. Jones had 5 years and Pie 7.

Jones 489 G, 1931 AB, 316 R, 296 RBI, 47 SB, 25 CS, 154 BB 442 SO .291 BA, .967 OPS
Pie 627 G, 2507 AB, 424 R, 317 RBI, 117 SB, 70 CS, 206 BB, 532 SO, .299 BA, .825 OPS

What many don't want to hear is that the Cubs never gave Pie consistent playing time without pressure to deliver YESTERDAY. Andy and Dave said they wanted to see where he is after some consistent non pressure playing time. That's what they are giving him. This isn't a year we will make the playoffs. STOP acting like we will. Let Nolan play at Norfolk for a couple more months and then see where Pie is. June will be a fairer test.

Why do you & Roch cover the same exact thing day to day??? Is it just the flavor of the day ?? How about mixing it up. He wrote about Reimold, how about you post something about Miclat...I dont know, just a suggestion

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Pete's reply: I don't check with Roch before I write and he doesn't check with me. Reimold had a huge day yesterday, so I reacted to that. There are times when we are very similar because we're covering the same things, but I think we give you different perspectives.

This topic has gotten a lot of responses and obviously has caused a lot of emotion among us fans. I cannot understand what is so enticing about Pie. What has he ever done to warrant such an extended major league in-season tryout? If he had been an injured star or gotten a bum rap or even a former 280 hitter who fell on hard times. Nope, none of those. I would have some comfort with the "experiment" if I had some idea WHY this apparent poor hitter, poor fielder deserved anything more than the same spring training looksee that the rest of the players get. Unless there is an answer other than "Andy likes him," then he should change places with Reimold until there is a case to the contrary

It's absolutely ridiculous that Pie, who can't hit, has no power & can't field was given the LF job this spring, while Reimold who has 30 HR/yr. potential is stuck in the minors. Nolan should've been called up last September & should've been in LF at Camden Yards on Opening Day. What does MacPhail see in Pie? And what does he have against Reimold?

Lets get a few things straight. Pie has only played fairly well when he played in the Pacific Coast League for the Cubs in the minors. Everyone hits well in that league and I mean everyone. He was overhyped because of that and because he was in the Chicago system like Cory Patterson etc.. Patterson of cousre is a lot better than Pie will every be. There is no hidden talent in Pie that is waiting to come out. All big cities get their players overhyped. Remember Juan Bell from L.A.? McPhail and the rest of the O's simply underrated Reimold and they have a little egg on their face now. Big deal. Everyone makes mistakes. Today Trembly as much as said they were wrong about Reimold. Moreover, if anyone believes Pie is really younger than Reimold they need to remember that most players who hail from outside the U.S. are usually 2-3 years older than they say they are. Remember Tejada? Also remember that Jones, Markakis, Ripken, Murray, Mantle and Mays, all who struggled early on, were only 20-21 years old when they struggled not 26 or 27 like Pie probably is. The O's will admit the mistake and bring up Reimold in the first week of May and send Pie down. Fear not Pie lovers, he will pass through waivers. He will hit about 260 in the minors and play O.K. center field and hit 7-10 home runs for Norfolk. Reimold will hit 30 homers and bat .280 and field his postion well for the O's for the next ten years. But for those of you who want to give Pie another month, I ask you this: if Pie hits .280 and hits five homeruns over that month, while Reimold continues his destruction of triple A pitching what then?

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Pete's reply: I'm not sure. Since you said everyone hits well in the minors, I don't know what to make of Reimold's performance.

Wouldn't this be the ideal time to send Pie through waivers? With no teams having given up on the season yet, who would claim a player who cannot provide any immediate benefits?

Also, to defend Corey Patterson a bit, at least he was an excellent defender, base-stealer, and bunter. His doomed fly-ball hitting approach is the only true comparison to Pie.

Everyone, As much as I have been disappointed with Pie, it would be a mistake just to pull Reimold up for a few weeks. It could hurt his confidence and that is not a goal right now. As much as it hurts to see Pie struggle at this level, only one of two things could happen at this point, he either starts having success or if he does not get it by maybe June, the Orioles will probably have to make a decision then. The Orioles will have some tough decisions in the next 10 to 20 days anyway, with Freel, Mora and Hill coming off the DL. That is what you want difficult decisions that is something we have not had a lot of in the last few years. The big problem is not the hitting it is the pitching, the Orioles only have four pitchers with an ERA under 5 runs per game. That stands out like a sore thumb. It was interesting to hear the broadcast last night about Nolan Ryan's methodology.

Pete, my question is......why are we even having the Pie experiment ? .....We had left field covered before Andy went & got Pie.........Wasn't Scott, Lou & Reimold enough without throwing another person into the mix ?

I understand what you're saying and agree on some level, but what about being fair to the guy who DID hit .295 in the majors last season and DID have a strong spring training.
If it was just Pie's hitting I could see giving him the extended time but his fielding and overall baseball playing hasn't looked strong and Trembley has used defensive lapses against Montanez in every article on the subject I have read. This broils down to Pie being Andy & Dave's boy from their Cub days and I truly believe than Trembley holds something (I have no idea what) against Lou from their minor league days in the Cubs organization.
Your point about not needing a RBI guy in LF if CF has a power hitter doesn't fit for the O's yet. While Adam is hitting great and looking good, he hasn't proven that he's a Mantle or even Mays yet and I'm not sure will ever be a #4 or #5 hitter where your corner outfielders or infielders can be those solid RBI guys.

Thanks for responding to my comments. I agree w/ what you are saying. Roch's a glass half full type, your a glass half empty type. W/ the state of the O's the last 10+ years who could blame you....