With you 100% Pete. Even the lowliest of MLB players make many times what I do. As a fan I think I have a right to be disappointed if they perform at a level that hardly seems worth watching. I know I'm not the first fan to think "Hey, I'll go out there on the mound and get my brains beat out for half the money these guys are making, How much talent does it really require to get torched?" When I hear from the beat writers heading into the season that the O's best pitchers are all in the minors I have to ask why I'm asked to pay major league prices if the talent is in the minors? You want to put second rate players out on the mound, fine then start charging minor league ticket prices.
Of course I do understand the rebuilding plan, and as frustrating as it is, I'm willing to give McPhail the benefit of the doubt as far as bringing up the new guys. Just the same I don't care much for being told how I'm dissing guys who make way more money than me for doing a lousy job, because I want to see the guys everyone tells me are better.

Pete; I am a 50 years plus Orioles fan and it hurts to see what the O's have put on the field. Their defense is appalling leading he league in unearned runs and they can not hit average and above pitching. The pitchers I see on the mound could not have pitched in the 1970s A leagues. In 96 and 97 the Orioles were a pitcher or two away from a world champion. This pitching drought is not new. Now they are many players away from a winning season. After receiving an email from the Orioles , I bought tickets to several games again this year. What has happened to the talent Scouts in the last 11 years? Why do they think they can get more from the players they trade for other teams than the trading team who drafted them did?

I am a frustrated fan.

A George, Harrisburg, Pa

I agree Pete....and doesn't Tom Davis remind you of Mr. Giggles. Isn't he better suited as the Ed McMahon to Steve Rouse's Johnny Carson?

As long as I pay the price of a ticket, I'll clamor all I want about minor leaguers (Reimold) at the exception of major leaguers (Pie). If Mr. Giggles has a problem with that, too bad.

All I keep hearing about bringing up the younger players is that it will destroy their confidence if the fail early on. What does over 10 years of losing do to the current players and fans confidence now? I thought the term professional meant that the pro can take set backs and overcome them.

Thank You Peter!!! I was hoping someone would mention Davis' comments in the postgame. One thing I found strange is that he said you don't hear fans in NY or Bos talking about prospects. Really? Because I've been hearing about Phil Hughes for about 4 years now and Jed Lowrie was supposed to make Bos fans forget they traded Hanley Rameriz. Maybe he is just not used to O's fans being excited about what is on the farm because we haven't had quality prospects in 20 years. Believe me I am sure that the front office would rather have fans clamoring for Troy Patton, Chris Tillman and Matt Weiters than apethetic to another probable losing season

I certainly agree with you, Pete.

I think many Os fans understand and respect the contributions folks like Uehara, Freel, Wiggington, Walker, Huff, Baez, and Eaton might make, but it's silly to think if they're existentially invested in the organization like a homegrown product might be. Of course they want their team to succeed, and some of those guys might still be on the team when the Os compete again, but they're not going to be the nucleus of that young team.

Os fans just need to keep it in perspective. Before MacPhail took over, there was mixed results in the minors. After MacPhail took over, the scouting and development system got a boost, we've pulled off some heavily Os favoring trades, and today independent outside organizations talk about our prospects. In general other teams GMs seem to respect our club again. Before MacPhail other clubs and Free Agents wouldn't even talk to us unless they were using us.

Once Wieters or another good prospect hits, I think Os fans will chill out a little. We might not be winning yet but at least we will get to see an honest to Gosh star in the making.

I'm getting a little frustrated with the timeline on when the Orioles will be a contender again. I have consistently read that the Orioles are at least two years away from competing....but I've been reading that same line for the last two years! Eventually, the "future" has to come sometime, right? With every spring that comes, the year in which the O's will compete gets moved back a year too.

Pete: "fans have every right to judge his performance and wonder if it might be more entertaining to watch Arrieta or Tillman or Troy Patton instead."
Fans, Minus members of Adam Eaton's family and the swelling membership of the Adam Eaton Fan Club (Cletus, Ethel, how's the goat farm?): It would definitely be more entertaining to watch Arrieta or Tillman or Troy Patton or Troy Donahue or George S. Patton or Tiddles the Wonder Cat pitch vs. watching our current staff of Tom Niedenfuers...Niedenfutiles...giving up three homers an inning. So come one, come all, ye vaunted minor league pitchers...ye vaunted minor league groundscrew, we don't care, somebody ELSE to pitch, please. Like a mind, a professional major league baseball season is a terrible thing to waste.

Hey Pete-
I respect Tom. He's knowledgeable, a good personality and he's posed more than once for pictures, however...
what is he talking about, unfair to the current players?
Booo Hooo Hooo.
When the fans are standing outside the players lot after the game, how many players stop and sign? B-Rob (always in the big truck), and a handful of others(I convinced Erik Bedard to shake my hand once when I told him that I was a rabbi and that the photo would go on my classroom wall-but he thought I was a stalker, I could see it in his eyes). Otherwise some of the supposed veterans do little more than drive off with a nod. Yes, they want to go home from work, but it's handful of fans.
These guys are being paid big money and the recent history hasn't produced much. Macphail since day one has been about "growing the arms" and developing prospects. The current rotation besides Uehara, Guthrie (and he's on the edge), and now Bergeson is just pathetic. Guys like Montanez are far more exciting than Pie and Freel. And if there is more talent in the wings from the minors and that's all we've heard about for the last 2 years, and now it's starting to trickle up, play it up for all it's worth. Guys like Mora (who I like and who still shows his worth when healthy) and Greg Zaun, etc. have to know what they are into and that to a certain extent they are along for the ride (although defensively, I like Zaun, I wish he produced more at the plate).
Andy MacPhail has a history that I (and apparently Peter Angelos) are willing to rely on to develop this team. If he's putting the focus on the up and comers, who am I to argue?
Will I give up my season tickets and go to the Baysox games? No, not on your life.
Will I support the O's for better or worse? Yes I will. I'll just keep humming "take me out to the ballgame....mmmm mmmm mmm" and suck it up until the next move comes along.

Considering that the fans are the only reason any of these guys have this job, I'd say we are well within our rights to want to see an entertaining product.

As far as not being "fair" to major league baseball players, was Tom kidding? I didn't realize that, while paying high ticket and merchandise prices, we must also be held accountable for making major league feel better. Perhaps no one would be clamoring for Jake Arrieta if Eaton could, you know, get anyone out.

You know what's really unfair? I am driving up from DC to go to the game tonight to watch Adam Eaton get lit up. I'm doing that because I love the Orioles and enjoy watching them. But, please, don't tell me that wishing Adam Eaton was actually Chris Tillman is "unfair". I have to deal with enough mental anguish watching this team as it is.

Why does Tom think it is unfair to the "major league" players to talk about better minor league players? Life has never been fair. To say that I'd want to pay my money to watch the nephew of Tom's friend catch vs Matt Wieters is absurd. I'll keep watching on TV until the "real" players show up.

If we were more worried about the future, and Adam Eaton, Baltimore wouldn't have many fans left. Most of the people that I know are so disappointed with what the franchise has become that they are only clinging to the hope that these guys are going to make a difference over the next year or two. Cheering for Adam Eaton and Mark Hendrickson won't make better fans, it will make us give up all together.

I beleive that O's fans like myself are starving for something to cheer about. I grew up an O's fan and I remember when we made the playoffs in '96-'97 for the first time in my following the team. I was 20 and had rooted for the O's since 1985. We had some tough times (1986-1988,1991-1995)in those years and the thrill of the playoffs was something I could not imagine ouside of the run we made in 1989. My first of 4 sons was born in December of '97 and he is 11 and half and has never been around to see them have a winning season. He feels my pain as do my younger boys. All this adds up to many fans like us who have spent time and money at the yard waiting for the team we love to come back to center stage. Are we wanting the prospects in Baltimore now? Heck no, we wanted them there 11 years ago. We that bleed orange and black are tired of promises and next year or 2011. I don't think 11 years is too long to wait. We just want something good to happen and the front office has messed up so many things that we don't trust them anymore. Hopefully their plan works out this time and I will give them all the credit in the world, but to say the fans should give guys like Eaton a break because he is there making his 24 million to absolutly stink, when we have the future at our grasp, is like putting a plate of food on a table in front of a starving person and telling them just as soon as I am finished eating what I want, then you can have some.

You nailed this one on the head, Pete. Nice article.

Tom Davis best work was selling Ameche Powerhouse burgers on the old Buddy Deane show over 40 years ago. He hasn't expressed a cogent thought or opinion since that time.

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Pete's reply: Really wasn't looking to start a Tom-bashing frenzy. Tom is a friend and this was just something we disagree on. Dave seemed to agree with Tom, but wasn't quite as strident.

Pete, I realize that the season is young...but I'm tired of watching these stopgap pitchers year after year and I find myself just hoping they get through the 5th before we abuse the bullpen again and again. One other thing...I find it odd that nobody has questioned Kranitz's ability to develop our staff ..or maybe his hands are tied. Bring on the young guns and lets see what happens.

Davis is a notorious homer and perpetual apologist.

After the debacle in Boston, his attitude was, "Hey if you don't include those last 4 games, the O's would be 6-and-3, which is really pretty good!"

It makes me cringe when I hear him describe a player as "struggling a little bit" when they are 2-for-35 at the plate, or when a pitcher has an ERA of 27.0+.

And now he's upset that the fans' clamoring for players who have enthusiasm and play hard might hurt the feelings of some under-achieving multi-millionaires. Give me a break!

What's really funny is that several of the O's this season (Roberts & Markakis, just to name a couple) have mentioned, more than once, how they're excited for the arrival of the young guys as well - so really, I don't think the major leaguers have a problem with people talking about it..but that's just my opinion.

RicK Maese's article is adding fuel to the youth movement fire. He was throwing otu the ages of current and past Orioles that came up at a young age. And his question was, "Is 22-24 to young"? The answer is no its not but,there is a huge BUT. All the players he mentioned had minor league experience beyond 1-2 years. Here is the breakdownof minor league experience of the players he mentioned BEFORE they were called up:

Nick Markakis 22 when called up but had 3 years in the minors with over 1,000 at bats.

Brian Roberts 23...played 6 seasons and had 1,298 at bats before being called up

Chris Ray 23...played 4 seasons had over 207 inns pitched but was brought up as a closer

Aubrey Huff 23...played 6 seasons and had 1,539 at bats before being called up

Cal Ripken 20...played 4 seasons and had 1,652 at bats before being called up

And yes Brooks came up when he was 19 but even he went back down to the minors 2 times

See a pattern there? They let the players develop in the minors and gain valuable experience BEFORE they were called up.

Bergessen was the one called up because he played over 4 yrs in the minors and had 473 inn's pitched.

We just got back to respectability in our farm system and we dont need to deplete it to make us a just below average team instead of a below average team. Let them stay down and gain the experience they need.

Winning cures everything and in a year or 2 when everyone is up in the bigs and we are winning no one will care that we have lost for the last 10 years. And if we are winning and you still bring up the decade of losing,you have problems.

Pete,
In a related debate, Rick Maese's article the other day spoke about how the young prospects should be brought up now to play, to get experience at the highest level.
Do you two ever discuss/debate it?

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Pete's reply: Not really, though we were sitting side-by-side when he wrote that. I had other duties, so we didn't really bat it around.

Let's see the Nats brought up Jordan Zimmerman, the Tigers' rotation now features Rick Porcello, and the A's have Trevor Cahill.

The O's can't see fit to promote Tillman?

Am I missing something/

Pete,
I wish there was a simple way to express to fans why the Slow method is important for young guys. In Maese's article yesterday he quoted Markakis about how he thought if you're good, you're just going to be good, and, Maese apparently agrees. I tend to agree too but I believe the possible problem doesn't just lie in what goes on in the field. It's also the momentum of the public spotlight. When a kid is still learning, he may try some things that he's never tried before. Perhaps those experiments gives him information of what NOT to do as much as what to do? You just can't do that in the majors without paying a price when under public scrutiny. It's a shame when you see impressionable kids who modify their games to appeal to the fanbase but fall into bad habits (e.g. Pitchers who go for the K, throw max effort, or light up the radar gun too often, Hitters who try to hit a homer with 2 strikes, chase balls, try to pull the ball when pitchers pitch strikes away, etc..). Some players are focused and won't get so affected, like Markakis. Those guys deserve credit, but there have been equally talented players who have needed some time to learn, away from critics who'd lambast them for not doing the right play in a situation they've never really faced before.

Old Tom seems like a nice guy, but you're on target with this one Pete. It is an indication of the talent level on the MLB squad, that we HAVE to be fixated on the minor leaguers. The O's finally have some good talent down on the farm to enjoy, and frankly the pitching staff down there has more talent than the one playing for the O's... I've rambled on blogs enough about the young studs being brought up to get some experience so I won't drone.

However when you look historically at MLB teams can you imagine a time when the most talented pitchers in a teams organization would not be brought up since they are the best the team has to offer? I can see not "rushing" but frankly as an organization you need to promote your best workers, so we as fans might not see that this year but we have the right to talk about them. Developmentally if the O's decide to leave those guys down there fine, but don't tell me Arrieta, Tilman and even Matusz at this point wouldn't sell more tickets (hopeful thinking), throw more strikes and win more games than what we started with on the Opening day rotation!?!?

Tom Davis works for Peter Angelos. What do you expect him to say, Peter?
Now that I'm just a "fan" and no longer a "media member," I thought maybe you'd launch my comment.

Hey, at least I read your stuff...

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Pete's reply: Nester, you know you're welcome here any time.

Sorry,but maybe Tom ought to pay for his tickets just like any other poor shnook who goes to the games. If a team puts any less then their best players on the field, no matter what league they're playing in, it's very unfair to the fans, especially the ones who have waited 11 (ELEVEN) years. It seems we have a lot of open spots on this pitching staff with no worries about waiver claims with this bunch

I agree with Tom.

People have begged and pleaded for Lou Montanez and look what he's produced. He is a Felix Pie clone. Unless of course you are going to explain that I should be patent. Then you are agreeing with the very man you are condemning.

Tom's point is to appreciate what you have and let the young guys be young guys earning their stripes, feathers, what have you. People are spending so much time rooting for Eaton to fail rather than accepting him for what he is and hoping he gets through that one inning he is bound to have a game.

What I took from the show was that he was asking Orioles fans to be fans of the Orioles.

Case in Point: What the hell is Adam Eats-it pitching for tonight? Early Vegas odds: Chicago 600 to 1. Grab Chicago!

Pete, you sound a little disingenuous to me regarding Tom Davis and "The Fan.' No wait, you sound a LOT disingenuous. It all boils down to one thing and that is that 105.7 FM The Fan is cleaning WBAL's sports talk clock. You guys at the mighty 1090 are so used to being the go-to radio station around Baltimore that you just can't stand it when another radio station capitolizes on WBAL's stupidity when they dropped their 3 hour LOCAL sports talk show in favor of one hour with you and two hours with some jerk in another state. When WBAL was the flagship station for the Orioles, callers would be quickly told that they didn't know what they were talking about if they were negative against the Birds even though they could see the faults with their own eyes. Peter Angelos sunk your flagship and gave it to 105.7 FM and you're throwing a temper tantrum because they're doing a hell of a better job than WBAL. Get over it, Peter. I was a listener of WBAL for 50 years but I'm never going back.

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Pete's reply: Not sure what that has to do with the subject matter "Jim," but I'll let you vent like everybody else.

If the player is hitting .270 or the pitcher's ERA is under 5, the comments won't bother them. If they are sucking air, then maybe the comments will wake them up or send them on their way. They are getting paid well to play well. Nothing in their contract guarantees fan appeasement.

Tom Davis seems to like to scold the fans a bit too much for my liking.

Pete,
You are dead on with your comments-seriously, why should we care if we hurt Adam Eaton's feelings?.

Pete:

I jusst read some of the readers responses to recent posts. It seems like the natives are getting restless. That is somewhat justified.

Mc Phail has done some good things, but he has a weakness. His weakness is his love affair with former can't miss players from his former life in Chicago. Pie is still here. He is playing just as well as he ever did in the majors in Chicago. Hill is still hanging arounnd although he hasn't pitched in a real game since when? Freel (not a Chicago guy but signed by McPhail) is injured (no kidding) after complaining about his playing time (which only makes sense based on Pie's playing time)!

Would I cut Pie? You bet. Would he pass waivers. Sure would (you know anyone else who wants a .131 hitting outfielder?). Freel? Garbage. Always injured, zero power, sub. I give McPhail his dues for picking up Wiggensen (sic).

We don't have to bring up all the young pitchers at once. They are different. Tillman - if he does well through May, bring him up. He is a pitcher not a chucker.

Arrieta? Leave him down longer. He is a chucker who needs to learn to be a pitcher.

Patton? He is basically major league ready but needs to build up his arm strenght. When he is throwing plus 90 regularly, bring him up.

Reimold. Keep him down until Freel comes off the DL. Release Freel, bring up the kid. Eat the bucks. Same for Eaton when Tillman or Patton are ready.

It behoves us naught to leave good player in the minors while playing dreck in the majors. McPhail may want to keep his stumblebums to assauge his ego, but can he make Trembly play them?

Doug @ 1:34 PM, how could you say 1991-1995 were tough times for the Orioles?

The 1990 and 1991 seasons were losing years but the team battled for the AL East pennant deep into September in 1992, 1993, and 1994 under Johnny Oates. While 1995 was only a .500 season, due to idiot one-summer replacement manager Phil Regan, at least it was the year that Cal Ripken saved the sport by breaking the Iron Man record.

I feel that 1992 through 1997 were a six-year revival period and remember it fondly.

I believe the outrage really comes from the mediocre plug-ins while we are supposed to be patiently waiting.
We started the season with an extremely questionable staff of starters which was so bad it came down to Opening Day for a decision on who the starters would be.
That ain't no way to run a railroad.

You mention that the O's are exhorting the media to focus on the long-term "plan." What's been the "line of the day," so to say, in past seasons? And how did the O's react to your story from a season (or two?) ago about the attendance decline that included the photo of you and your laptop surrounded by lots of empty green seats.

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Pete's reply: They weren't happy, but if you remember it I guess it was a decent column.

As an O's fan since the early 60's, I've seen the highs and obvious lows. '09 is the first year in many that there's some optimism. Sure, I want to see the young arms but only if they are major-league ready. I can live through '09 if it means seeing some hope in '10. The dilema for me is that I have a hard time stomaching the double digit losses caused by retread starters. Eaton has become the poster-boy in this regard so hopefully his days are numbered because I really can't see him being any better than his 'track record' which has been abysmal. The light bulb isn't suddenly going to go off, especially since he is now 'pitching' in a superior league.
Let's at least send out a semi-competitive league and we can start be shedding the mediocre players. The fans are at least owed that much, given the poor economy.etc...

Funny how this turned into a bash-Eaton page, and then he delivers a gem of a game like he did tonight. I'm not trying to say that his criticism wasnt earned. Just ironic...

I think the night Bergensen won his major league debut, Trembley was feeding the fans in his post game press conference. He was the one who brought up the young guys. He knows that they are coming soon. But he can't say that to his players or it will hurt their morale. The fill in stop gap veterans know their time is limited. They are going to make of it what they can. What happens when Weiters comes up and we have another guy who can hit 20+ HR's? I think it comes down to them trying to deflect the notion of rushing them up since Bergensen had success. Just because Bergensen had a strong performance does not mean they should just bring them all up now and give them a shot. Let them work their way up so they can prove themself in each level. Then, when they get here, they will be more prepared to succeed. Talking about the farm system is the only thing that gives us hope. What the possibilities are and what is to come? If we can only think about the here and now... well what is the point of that with 11 straight losing seasons? When does it end?

As an aside, is anyone else thrilled by the sight of Zahn hoovering up every 'in the dirt' pitch thrown his way. And a little distressed by the number of balls going past Roberts on into the outfield?