Orioles: More rotation stuff
Based on the comments today by Dave Trembley -- and some poking around -- the Orioles are down to six candidates for the three spots in the starting rotation after Jeremy Guthrie and Koji Uehara, and you could probably make the case that it's really down to three candidates for the fifth spot. I think at this point, it's fair to assume that Adam Eaton and Mark Hendrickson are in, leaving Danys Baez, Alfredo Simon, Brian Bass and Hayden Penn to battle for the last job.
If I was a betting man, I'd probably go with Baez, even though Trembley has been saying a lot of nice things about Simon and Bass. Penn may get one more start to stretch out, but he probably starts the season as the long guy.
I'm told there is little chance of the Orioles plucking a pitcher off waivers before Opening Day, so my whole "mystery starter" theory has gone out the window.






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Comments
Hi Pete,
It's now fair to say that the Orioles starting rotation will be filled through attrition. This was obviously not the way that the team hoped it would work out. Incredibly, out of 37 candidates at the start of camp, no one has really stepped up and stood out to force their way into the rotation, other than Bradley Bergenson, who has been sent to the minors.
This is a splendid incantation of Murphy's law, and in retrospect was probably a more likely outcome than what was hoped for considering the resumes and injury histories of the candidtates at the start of camp.
Unfortunately, this outcome will shade the entire season.
Pete, you have done a magnificent job reporting this failed experiment from day one.
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Pete's reply: You're right, it's a scary proposition, but you and I know that bringing 37 pitches to camp was not a sign of strength, but just the opposite.
Posted by: Gil Jr | March 24, 2009 12:12 PM
I don't see the upside to Hendrickson and Eaton. We already know that they are mediocre at best. Why not just plug Pauley (bad as he's been) and Penn into the 4 & 5 slots and hope to catch lightning in a bottle?
Where are Rodrigo Lopez and Jose Mercedes when you need them?
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Pete's reply: I'm not ruling Penn out of the fifth spot right now. I don't know what to make of Pauley. The problem with going that direction is, if he goes out two starts in a row and can't get anybody out, you're bullpen is toast for two weeks. They kind of figure Eaton and Hendrickson can hold it together enough for that not to happen, even if the results in their particular starts might not be great.
Posted by: My Name is Earl | March 24, 2009 12:23 PM
Nothing personal Pete, but I hope you are wrong about Baez in the rotation. He should be released.
Posted by: Chuck | March 24, 2009 12:26 PM
Mystery Starter, the whole starting rotation is a mystery if you ask me. Pete in all honesty i made up my mine before the start of this season , that i was willing to accept what andy was doing because i believe he does have this team going in the right direction.. But pete you can't tell me that me that this organization handled this pitching situation very well. The way it stand now it's a total disaster.All the fans of this town want is to have hope and be competive and when the projected starting pitching staff is worse then last year you don't have much of either.
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Pete's reply: It's a mess, but I think the fans in Baltimore want more than just a competitive (loose translation, 75-win) team. I think they want to compete for the playoffs in a year or two, and you don't get there by signing a bunch of high-priced, so-so free agent pitchers. If you aspire to 75 wins, that's what you're going to get, and that's probably all you're going to get for the foreseeable future.
Posted by: blancione | March 24, 2009 12:39 PM
Through the winter I had a bad feeling about the O's . Then we signed Nick , Roberts , I see we have a decent chance to produce runs ... then I see this pitching staff and come to the realization that while we can score runs , we can't get anybody out either . Different year . Same results .
Some of us grew up in the age of Palmer , McNally , Cuellar , Dobson , McGregor , even Flanny . That's our measuring stick .
Posted by: Anonymous | March 24, 2009 12:42 PM
They need to just pick up Pedro and get it over with. hahaha Whachya think Pete?
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Pete's reply: I'd take him in a minute, but that's not in the plan.
Posted by: jj | March 24, 2009 12:44 PM
Peter,
It's hard to tell the players without a program, but I could have sworn that some statement was made that implied Bass was only being considered as a reliever.
Is he "officially" in the running?
Jim
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Pete's reply: He's still in the running, but he is also under consideration for a long relief role.
Posted by: Jim Carter | March 24, 2009 12:56 PM
Where is Daniel Cabrera? I know he wasn't much but he would at least have eaten up some innings that starters 2-5 probably never will? I wonder if just giving him away may have been a mistake?
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Pete's reply: He has been unimpressive in Nats camp so far.
Posted by: larry | March 24, 2009 1:02 PM
Why not the rotation that I pointed out (Gurthrie, Uehara, Eaton, Simon and Penn)? Atleast Simon and Penn have upside over Hendrickson who could be slotted into the LR role.
Posted by: Nate | March 24, 2009 1:11 PM
Pete, The Orioles' refusal to spend a little money to get a quality starter to shore up a rotation littered with question marks really bothers me. There's no way you have real rebuilding without baby steps towards respectability, and having a less than credible rotation isn't the way to do it.
Other than two locks everyone else is highly suspect:
Eaton--Has struggled this spring and already had a bad track record in the majors.
Hendrickson--He's absolutely proven in several years that he is not a major league starter. Fortunately he will be back in the bullpen as soon as Rich Hill is ready, but can Hill make it back?
Baez--Mediocre when he was a starter, at least he appears to have recovered from his arm problems.
Simon--Over the past three seasons in Triple-A he had a 5-17 record and an ERA over 6.00. 'Nuff said.
Bass--He's pitched decently this spring, but with little major league experience. Nevertheless, he should probably be ahead of Eaton and Hendrickson.
Penn--No options left, so he needs to impress quickly.
Pauley--Out of the running?
It's clear, then, that the O's desperately need a decent arm, so why won't they do it! I'm perplexed...any thoughts on what's behind there decision? After all, it's not like they'd be breaking the bank with a short term deal.
Posted by: Ken Francis | March 24, 2009 1:21 PM
Pete, I returned from Florida after seeing 2 games, one in Fort Lauderdale and one at Roger Dean stadium. The Oriole organization should be ashamed to allow its players and fans to watch games at that dump in Fort Lauderdale. Port-a-pots for the fans. Classy. We did see a good game in Jupiter. What a beautiful facility.
Posted by: Larry Johnson | March 24, 2009 1:22 PM
I suspect that we will pick up at least 2 starters from the waiver pile. I don't think that McFly is just whistling past the grave yard about this silly pitching staff so I'd sure like to know what in the world they are saying internally. In fantasy baseball, this team would be kicked out of the league for lack of effort. There's no way they sell this batch of cast offs as a major league club. Pete, you'd better develop a collection of jokes and include some Dangerfield "No respect" photos for the blog.
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Pete's reply: I thought they'd pluck a waiver guy or two, but hear they don't plan on that anymore.
Posted by: Beeb | March 24, 2009 1:31 PM
I think things have gotten as bad as they have due to injuries and other circumstances, like Guthrie opting to participate in the WBC. Granted, they weren't great to begin with--you're right, when you have 38 pitchers in camp, it's not a good sign, but if Rich Hill doesn't hurt his elbow, if Koji doesn't pull his hamstring, if Hendrickson doesn't hurt his back (well, we all know the list), things might be looking a bit better. Still, I say this is "the storm before the calm," because we do have some pretty impressive prospects moving their way up the ladder. Before we had no pitching AND no prospects either, so that's an improvement. Patience is a virtue we fans must continue to embrace. And remember, if the game is not going well on the field, that's why they sell nachos, right Pete?
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Pete's reply: I think it's pretty scary right now, but it will shake out by the second half of the season.
Posted by: maxmorf | March 24, 2009 1:35 PM
Let's see, Victor Zambrano is widely cited as a disaster as a SP for the O's last year and he's quickly released yet we replace him with guys that are even worse and then act positive. Zambrano's career ERA - 4.64. Adam Eaton's career ERA is 4.80 and Hendrickson's is 5.07. Zambrano averaged fewer than a hit an inning and neither Eaton or Hendrickson can say that. This is the worst pitching staff assembled in AL history and the thought that this was acceptable is a disgrace. I understand and buy into the fact that we're not going to be a playoff team for two more years and that we have to make decisions based on that. But that doesn't mean that you just give up on this season and that's what we've done. That's what O's fans are mad about. We're paying premium prices and it's obvious that there's no interest in even trying to compete this year.The O's didn't even bother to try and get major leaguers for this year's rotation. Even the Nationals have better pitching. Jon Garland and Oliver Perez are just two pitchers who could have been signed to keep us competitive in games and the kids still could have been worked in over the next few years. They'd also have a better team to break in with and ease their adjustment. I don't mind waiting for the kids but I do mind watching non-major leaguers pitch night after night when it didn't have to be that way.
Posted by: Sledge | March 24, 2009 1:53 PM
Pete,
I don't understand what the rationale is behind the sentiment of "Why not plug in the young guy?" argument.
If it's a Wieters, sure, it's a decent argument but he's a position player. If he struggles, he'll have a share in some lost games but his struggles won't effect the players around him directly. Whereas with pitchers, it can have a very profound ripple effect that can be felt perhaps until August. If a young starting pitcher struggles, then it stretches the bullpen which might leave an arm or two exposed. Last year we had 4 top bullpen arms Sherrill, Johnson, Albers, and Sarfate all go down with injuries late in the season. I can't help that that is more or less directly related with going with Liz or Olson in the rotation.
Posted by: Basemonkey | March 24, 2009 2:07 PM
Everything there makes sense except for Baez over Penn. What exactly has Baez done (other than sign an outrageous contract) to earn this spot? He clearly doesn't even look fit for the bullpen!
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Pete's reply: It's not Baez over Penn any more. Check out Jeff's story.
Posted by: Mr. Deez | March 24, 2009 2:12 PM
i'll bet on Eaton, Baez, and Simon. Though i heard DT wants a lefty in the rotation, its more important to have them in the pen. If Hendrickson is long relief, then he can come in and face a predominantly lefthanded lineup from time to time. That leaves Walker as the only situational lefty, if Sherrill is the closer. Perhaps Hill will be ready sometime soon enough to replace whichever starter is struggling the most
Posted by: john fairall | March 24, 2009 2:27 PM
Guthrie and Uehara then pray for a shower.
Posted by: wph | March 24, 2009 2:36 PM
Agree on Pedro - should get him for a year but they won't.
I'm hoping that cavalry arrives before the O's find themselves at the Little Big Horn (blown out arms in the BP again because of the terrible starting rotation).
Posted by: jargon | March 24, 2009 2:58 PM
Vote for Pedro! Can aways trade to contender later.
Posted by: Punk Flamingo | March 24, 2009 3:57 PM
Pete, you've seen Simon pitch in FL, so wouldn't he be ahead of Hendrickson and Eaton? I figured Jeremy, Koji, Simon and Eaton were locks with the 5th spot being a fight between Bass, Penn, Baez, Pauley (not anymore) and Waters. I thought Both Dave and Andy, didn't want Hendrickson as a SP. I know things haven't gone very well, but why not Bass over Hendrickson?
I am disappointed that other than Simon and Bass, not one of these guys has made a a good impression to merit a starting spot in the rotation. The only logic with Bass in the BP, is if Hill is going to be a SP by 3rd week of the season.
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Pete's reply: I don't think the order of the 3,4 and 5 guys is terribly important at this point.
Posted by: Birdland Todd | March 24, 2009 5:57 PM
Hey Pete,
I know our ultimate goal is to be competitive down the road, but there had to be a better way to put this rotation together.
Our offense is good. Our bullpen should be good to great. Our defense should be great. Our rotation is shaping up to be flat out awful.
Wouldn't it have been worth it to add a high priced free agent or 2 to at least draw some fans for the first half and keep a little bit of excitement? The team could have earned some money with increased ticket revenue AND we could have traded them for more prospects at the deadline if they were performing well. I know that's a best case scenario, but I feel it's appropriate to discuss the best case for once because we are currently stuck in the worst case--two weeks till opening day and three rotation spots are going to be given by default instead of earned.
Paul from Oregon
Posted by: Paul | March 24, 2009 7:39 PM
Guthrie Uehara Simon Bass Penn Hendrickson long relief. Lets go with current results. Being an ORIOLE FAN I have grown very very very tired of the words potential, or '' maybe this guy could return to his old form or style''. NO MORE MAYBE'S NO MORE!!!!!
Posted by: ANDREW | March 24, 2009 7:54 PM
Putting Baez and Hendrickson, if it happens, into this rotation is absolutely horrible management and decision making!! They are PROVEN to be mediocre (I'll be kind) pitchers at BEST!! Meanwhile, Bergesen, Bass, Waters, Penn, and/or Simon make SO much more sense because they're young with the potential to learn and grow as pitchers. This is the PERFECT season to throw a few of the young guys out there and see what happens. But instead, Trembley and Co. are gonna trot out a bunch of washed-up DUDS to bore us all to death. I just don't get it............
Posted by: SevernDave | March 25, 2009 6:43 AM
Hendrikson, Eaton, Baez--You're kidding, right? This is easily a 100 loss season. When does the nightmare end, and we all wake up to, at least, competative starting pitching? Pete, I have to hand it to you. To be around this every day for an entire season takes a pretty strong willed person. It's a living
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Pete's reply: Baez is out of the rotation. Check out Jeff's story on the Web site.
Posted by: NORM | March 25, 2009 7:41 AM