baltimoresun.com

« This week in Orioles baseball | Main | Orioles talk: Adam Jones »

January 19, 2009

Leo Mazzone lights Orioles up

leoap.jpgHere's a story from Saturday's Atlanta Journal-Constitution in which former Orioles pitching coach Leo Mazzone talks about the biggest mistake of his career -- bolting the Atlanta Braves to become pitching coach for the Orioles under old friend Sam Perlozzo.

Leo (left) shouldn't regret it too much. He made a lot of money here, including a real nice salary to take the 2008 season off. Now, it appears, he's trying to lay the groundwork for a return to the Braves.

Associated Press photo

Posted by Peter Schmuck at 2:04 PM | | Comments (117)
Categories: Just baseball
        

Comments

Mazzone's unsuccessful stint with the O;s showed that perhaps he wasn't the genius he was made out to be. It's pretty classless to take cheap shots at the O's organization and while they may have lacked direction/focus etc isn't that why he was hired?
Maybe he was part of the problem-instead of reminscing about the good old days, maybe he should have worked harder. When the TV cameras showed him, he looked half-asleep on the bench and that rocking up and down didn't portray him in a never favourable light either.
The O's paid him decent money and the pitching staff actually got worse so maybe Leo should keep cashing his checks and keep his mouth shut. He comes across as a bitter old man -not the image to project if he ever decides to get off his lazy a*** and go back to work.
I can't believe too many teams would want him but then again Cito Gaston got hired so anything's possible I suppose.

I saw what he also said in ESPN the Magazine. It was a disgrace. I think he's just mad because his technique didn't work with our pitchers. Sorry Leo, looks like you failed here.

I liked the idea of Mazzone at first but it was obvious that the stars were not going to re-align for him in Baltimore as they had in Hotlanta. Just another example of the organization trying to complete the entire puzzle with only a few of the needed pieces. The biggest contributors to Leo's success in Atlanta were Cox and Shurlholtz. Much like Ozzie and Savage made Billick look great for those first years. These days a single coach, manager, or executive can't be the sole savior of an organization. It takes a strong team on the field as well as in the office. Here's to an improved O's team for '09 and a contender in '10.

How amusing. He's just ticked because he was EXPOSED here in Baltimore. He didn't have the magic touch like everyone thought he did. He was lucky to be paired with Maddox, Glavine, and Smoltz. But he'll never man-up...he'll just continue to blame anyone but himself.

I can't fault Mazzone one bit for his comments about the Orioles. Here is a sample:

“Once I got there and saw how they operated compared to the Braves, I knew I made a mistake the first week of spring training,.. The lack of organization. The lack of discipline. The lack of overall professionalism. I was shocked, and I couldn’t believe it.”

Sometimes, O's fans need a little dose of reality; hopefully, the lack of discipline and professionalism is gone now or at least on the way out. Mazzone also noted how the O's pitchers were "soft".

I checked out what the Cubs fans were saying on the Pie-Olsen trade. The vast majority were glad to be rid of Pie claiming he stubbornly refused to adjust his swing. More than a few referred to him as the second coming of C Patterson. I checked out Pie's swing on mlb.com and, man, it is really, really long. Time will tell how this trade works out, but I think Andy was smart to make it. Pie has a chance of being great.

Leo tarnished his rep here and he's ticked about it. It's not so easy when you don't have Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz is it? Seems to me like they all did ok without you Leo. You left for the bucks and you know it, blowhard!

I liked the idea of Mazzone at first but it was obvious that the stars were not going to re-align for him in Baltimore as they had in Hotlanta. Just another example of the organization trying to complete the entire puzzle with only a few of the needed pieces. The biggest contributors to Leo's success in Atlanta were Cox and Shurlholtz. Much like Ozzie and Savage made Billick look great for those first years. These days a single coach, manager, or executive can't be the sole savior of an organization. It takes a strong team on the field as well as in the office. Hopefully the O’s now have the pieces in place for the future, and in that spirit here’s to an improved O’s in ’09 and a contending O’s in ’10!

Just goes to show that maybe the HOF Manager and HOF GM and HOF talent had a little more to do with the Braves' success than he did. And even with the Braves now in decline and Cox and Schuerholz still there it doesn't look like anybody is in any hurry to bring him back. Hey, Leo, we all knew the culture here was all messed up. That's why the Os gave you the big bucks - to come in here and fix it! It's obvious you just weren't up to the job.

Wow how ironic. The biggest mistake we made was hiring Mazzone as a pitching coach.

Not to mention it sounds like he is classless, bashing this organization twice in the past week. So long sucker!

Absolutely hysterical article. So who's showing a lack of professionalism? Surely not Mazzone by making those rash comments...ha ha. Sounds like a bitter man.

Pete,

I think any Orioles observer could have told Leo that it was a bad career move. Losing trends are tough to break, especially with poor talent.
One less marginal pitcher to worry about now that Bierd has been moved.

Ya know what , after reading that article , screw Leo Mazzone .
I'm sure there may be some truth to what he said , but in turn , I don't know that he had any positive influence on the O's pitching staff .
To make the comments he did was pretty classless .

Wow, I think his comments speak volumes in regards to the ineptitude of this organization. Mazzone was an integral part of a Braves team who dominated the NL east for many seasons. Atlanta’s pitchers were their strong suit and he was their pitching coach. He cannot be completely full of it.

These comments say it all. The fans have been echoing the same thing for years…are we stunned by this??

“The lack of organization. The lack of discipline. The lack of overall professionalism. I was shocked, and I couldn’t believe it.”

WOW- just got the news on Pie- im ecstatic...NOT!!! He has done nothing in the minors of notability, and has shown statistically to be unworthy of any of the hype the as always inept Orioles have meritted him thus far. Welcome Mike Deverauxe 2.0. one big year maybe- i hope im wrong, his numbers just done impress me. its moves like this that are turning me against the orioles, and if i cant find reason to root for the only team ive ever rooted for, then why even bother with baseball period. this team has done absolutely NOTHING worthwhile this off season (except sign Ueharra) when there was actually good proven talent outh there to obtain. not that im all for Olsen, i feel we needed to send him to the NL- he probably can be successful there because he wont in the AL east. but for this- another no-count bumb on the Os radar... gee.. hope im wrong, but i'd much rather have Montanez or Reimold or even Scott in lf.

HE should regret coming here as it exposed as a parasite who made his reputation from other's talents. Heck, I could be a gfantastic pitching coach if you gave me 5 Cy Young winners to work with.

The most interesting part of the Journal-Constitution article is the part where it says Mazzone "inherited a bunch of soft pitchers in Baltimore who couldn’t adjust to his hard but effective style. He was booted after two seasons."

Fair enough. Maybe what that says is that the O's pitchers were never going to be good because of their characters, dispositions and what ever else was going on between their collective ears. (Cabrera) If true, it's sad that they couldn't have taken advantage of the quality pitching coach that Mazzone is.

On the other hand, it seems to me that the first thing a coach has to do is figure out how to communicate with the players. Simply wishing, even if justified, that they had different dispositions than they did was never going to make it so. No team can just cut 5 starters and bring in 5 other guys.

What Leo had to work with was what Leo had to work with. Seems to me at least part of his troubles in Baltimore were due to his failure to understand that and make some adjustments of his own. Who knows, maybe some of those guys would have responded better to a different style or approach. There are some people who respond well to a kick in the butt. For others, it's a pat on the back that does the trick.

Had Mazzone figured that out, maybe he'd still be here on the cusp of inheriting another set of CY Young winners in Patton, Matusz, Tillman and Arrieta. (It's sprintime. I can dream) Instead he's sitting at home out of work trying to get back in with the Braves. If I can humbly offer him some advice, the guys he might inherit in Atlanta might not have the same constitutions that Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz had. If so, adjust Leo.

It was a well written article but I don't think I got what you got out of it. He didn't really hint at getting his job back in Atlanta. He just said they had re-vamped the system and gotten some good pitchers back. He has a right to complain. At that time the system was in shambles. It is better now but not yet where it needs to be. Hopefully soon under the guide of MacPhail and the good quality pitching coaches throughout the system they will get it back to where it should be. If anyone needs to step it up now it may be the minor leagues infield prospects and the coaches who are their mentors.

It's pretty telling when he says, "“The lack of organization. The lack of discipline. The lack of overall professionalism. I was shocked, and I couldn’t believe it.”

But then, in the picture on this blog post, Mazzone looks terrible in orange. So I guess it's just as well he left us behind with our soft pitchers.

I totally understand Leo, HARD TO SUCEED WITH NO TALENT.. NO HARD FEELINGS LEO....

I think his progress with Daniel Cabrera alone gets him into the coaching hall of fame. [sarcasm/off]

Pete - Just another in the long list of people who exemplify the old saying - "You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear."

See - Casey Stengel with the Mets, et.al.

He was doomed to failure here.

Mazzone is the most overrated pitching coach ever !

"...I knew I made a mistake the first week of spring training...”

Maybe that's why nothing changed while he was in town. He probably never put everything he had into the job.

“The lack of organization. The lack of discipline. The lack of overall professionalism. I was shocked, and I couldn’t believe it.”

Wasn't it his job to help fix those problems?

Lack of professionalism?? Leo should look in the mirror, he failed in Baltimore and a professional who fails should not point fingers.

Two thoughts......1) what an idiot. So he gets Smoltz, Glavine and Maddux. Heck, my mom, God rest her soul, could have succeeded as PC with that talent. 2) Intersting though, the shots as the organization as a whole. Smells Like PGA & Sons, doesn't it.

Will Smuck leave the SUN for more money? If he is getting more than $2.77 an hour, he is grossly OVER PAID.

..............................................................................................
Pete's reply: You again? I guess they don't pay you to spell.

What's sad is that I gave Leo Mazzone more credit than he deserved. A truly classy person, no matter their true feelings, would never openly criticize another player or organization to the media in a one sided attack.

I'll never say that I don't think that the Orioles are without their fair share of dysfunction...but how does a man who believes that all pitchers should pitch HIS way or no way have any right to criticize anyone else? Leo rode the coattails of having one of the greatest trios in pitching history. Something leads me to believe that Maddux, Smoltz & Glavine would have been a tremdous group no matter who their coach was. The fact that Leo came to Baltimore and only managed to make our young pitchers WORSE says a lot about his "prowess" as a pitching coach.

Now in an attempt to save face he blames it all on the Baltimore organization? Maybe the reason he sat at home last season and doesn't exactly have other teams beating a path to his door is because they realize that he is at least partly to blame for the two worst years in Daniel Cabrera's frustrating career so far, breaking Adam Loewen, making Garrett Olson second guess himself so badly that he's now seeing a sports psychologist, attempting to convince us that Bruce Chen was worthy of being a starter, etc. etc. etc. and that if pitchers don't come already knowing HOW to attack the zone, Leo will attack them!

Good Riddance!

His comments seem consitant with most people who either deal with or have worked for the team have said. This includes the baseball and business sides of the organization.

Face it Mazzone you were outted as not being as great as people thought. Your just bitter that you couldnt ride the tales of Smoltz, Glavine, Maddux any longer.

Speaking of pitching, will new acquisition David Pauley be in camp this spring?

Do you know anything about him, Pete?

...............................................................................................
Pete's reply: Don't know much about him, but I've been told he'll be in the mix this spring.

Boy, I wish I could say he was lying, but....

He's right.

I went ahead, against my better judgment, and read the piece. What a turd, total surrender monkey trashing the organization and using it as an excuse for HIS failure. A good pitching coach is a good pitching coach anywhere he works. Apparently “Cy” mazzo needs 4 HOF starters or else it’s a lost cause. At least Kranitz has shown a capacity to work with the young guys rather than just cursing at them for being inferior to Maddux, et al. Good riddance!

So, do good pitchers make a good coach or vice versa? And, if there was a lack of organization and professionalism, what does this say for ol' buddy Perlozzo's ability to manage? Given two years, you would think Leo, with Sammy's able support, would be able to improve things? Or does actually putting in hard work and accomplishing something not come in the job description?

Just another example of how different (read easier) it is to coach talent (Braves pitching staff) versus non-talent (Orioles pitching staff).

Mazzone is a very lucky guy who should keep his mouth shut.

I wonder if "old friend Sam Perlozzo" is now former friend Sam Perlozzo?!

Turn his picture to the wall!

Peter: So you're a seasoned baseball writer. Based on your expertise:

1) should we respect Mazzone's criticisms of the ways the O's handle pitchers?

2) assuming some of Mazzone's criticisms are valid, have the Os corrected these problems?

..............................................................................................
Pete's reply: I think Leo walked into a situation where he couldn't succeed. He put in his program and the talent here wasn't good enough to make it work. That's an indictment of the organization, but Leo has to take some responsibility for his tenure here.

we made a mistake hiring him. not the other way around. hes stupid.

Pete,
I am sorry to say this, but Leo is right. This organization and the pitchers we had were soft and didn't take critizism very good. DanielCabrera never took instruction seriously, even thinking he knew more than the coach. Olsen is another. Peter Angelos was not getting the talent that he needed either. I know you want to go with youth, but you have to have a few GOOD veterans in there too. If Leo couldn't fix it, no one could and the organization knew it, but Leo went the way of Davy Johnson, you question Peter Angelos, and your gone!

Nothing earth shaking there, but wasn't he hired to change things? Seems he thought it was gonna be easy. It would have been nice if Leo said why his style didn't work here, was it because he didn't have Maddox, Glavine et al?

Leo coached as if he'd a mistake. Granted, the O's pitching staff was, and continues to be horrific, but, you'd think a Hall of Fame Pitching Coach would have had SOME influence on the young pitchers. I say, goodbye and good riddance!

The guy stunk here anyway. Highly paid to do a lousy job. Baltimore provided him with a definite challenge that he couldn't handle and now he regrets his true "talent" being exposed.

BOO HOO HOO hes a cry baby and if he was so good why didnt he help change the culture of the club house instead of joining in on being disfunctional.

PS: Mazzone's answer to everything......keep the ball down in the zone. No s--t sherlock. We all learned that in little league. I'd take that job for $15 an hour.

SOUR GRAPES!!!! He did a lousy job while here. His hype was bigger than ability. He had great pitchers while at Atlanta who knew how to pitch. He was not the great teacher eveyone thought he was.

I'm sure his assessments were on the spot. And I'm sure that it was a good decision by the O's to pay for his time off.

Hi Pete,

This story is absolutely no surprise. I personally listened to him (Mazzone) the same anti-Baltimore venom on two separate ocassions on XM satellite radio. I can only assume he spews the same venom whenever he talks of Baltimore. Specifically he talks about how inept the front office is and that he failed in Baltimore because they wouldn't let him coach the pitchers the way he wanted to. It was pathetic to listen to him talk.

I know he has a reputation for being a bit cantankerous and a curmudgeon, but (even if everything he says about Baltimore were true) I thought he'd be smart enough not to burn his bridges so fully and completely. The baseball world is a small world, and the front offices talk to each other.

Maybe his behaviour won't hurt him in the future in obtaining a new coaching job, but he proved to me that he is a small, pathetic little man.

As the late, great Brian Billick might say, "Leo, have another beer, and make another observation." And if he still looks like he does in the accompanying photo, I sure hope his possible return to the Braves isn't contingent upon his passing a physical.

Have another beer indeed, Leo.

“The lack of organization. The lack of discipline. The lack of overall professionalism. I was shocked, and I couldn’t believe it.”

One of the basic tenets of any organizational improvement is to look in the mirror and find fault there before looking elsewhere. I wonder how his "best friend" Sam feels reading about this assessment of the organization during his managerial tenure? No doubt, Mazzone is a solid pitching coach, but for every success he can cite, there's a Steve Avery or a Kent Mercker lurking in the background to remind us he was far from a sure thing.

I live in the Atlanta area and Leo talks baseball on the local sports radio. He has an ego a mile long and still crys about the Orioles. Plain and simple, Leo is OVERRATED! Anybody could have been a pitching coach and succeded with Glavine, Smoltz and Maddox. We should ask Leo about why his relievers in Altanta sucked under his coaching.

Pete,
It's amazing how many times has this sentiment been expressed about the Orioles by respected baseball people.

Bottom line Leo: Smoltz, Glavine, Maddux, et all, were successful pitchers AFTER you left, and under different pitching coaches. I thought the reason you came to Baltimore was because of your "longtime dream to coach for your best friend Sam Perlozzo." You were well aware of the talent, or lack of it, on the Orioles before you decided to come here. now you whine about it. There's one thing far more important than talent that you didn't have here, and it's apparent you still don't have it, and that's CLASS. Look in the mirror Leo.

Peter: Refresh my memory, but wasn't Leo Mazzone leaving the security and success of the Atlanta Braves to join his good-good friend Sam Perlozzo, who was named manager at the time? I know that Sam has landed on his feet with the Seattle team, but this really smacks of throwing his "friend" under the bus. Do you think Sam thinks it's just "Leo being Leo" or do you think this will damage their relationship?

..............................................................................................
Pete's reply: I'm not sure they were all that close at the end.

I am sure like all O's fans, I was psyched when we hired Leo, but it didn't work out. I am sure there is some truth to what Leo said, but isn't a coach (especially one of his caliber) supposed to accept some responsibilities for HIS failure?

Maddux was a success before Leo, with Leo and after Leo, so maybe if he looked at the job as a challenge in trying to mold some of the young pitchers instead of deciding one week in, that's it was hopeless, he could have been more successful.

He always seemed like he had a big ego, but the classy thing would have been to shut his mouth and keep cashing the checks from P.A.

Did Mazzone say anything that wasn't true at the time ? No. Should he have said it openly ? Hell no.

considering the orioles have had 18 losing seasons over the past 25 yrs i have to agree with mazzone about the lack of organization and discilpine with the orioles. even a great pitching coach like ray miller couldn't be successful when he returned to the o's. good organizations don't have 18 losing seasons in 25 yrs.

..............................................................................................
Pete's reply: In fairness to everyone else, Leo was the pitching coach and was in charge of helping to set up spring training, so it is interesting that he says the moment he got there it was all those things.

ha ha . give me koufax ryan palmer, and maddux and, i could rock on a bench too and become the greatest pitching coach in my mind too . then give me average talent and suddenly i become average ,and then point the finger in 100 diffent directions blaming everybody but myself. point is perllozo andleo are nice guys with below average and average skills ,that at most should be a bench coach and asst. bench coach.

Pete, Can you ever truly be critical of the O's? Seriously, it's as if you're afraid they'll take your credentials away if you ever truly disagree with them.

You didn't render an opinion on Mazzone, but it's obvious how you feel.

Why is it posters, that when anyone is critical of the O's (as Mazzone was), most feel a need to defend the organization? I mean if you just stepped away for minute, you would see that the sports world looks at the O's as one of the worst organizations in ALL of sports. And its been this way for many years now.

Before anyone says Mazzone had alot to work with in Atlanta, how about asking the pitchers who worked with him. Has anyone asked Smoltz how much Mazzone did for his overall career? Come on everyone!

The only way to truly turn things around is by holding this organization accountable. Of course what Mazzone says is true! Look at the past 11 years people. Of course he telling the truth!

But instead of saying 'wow, that could possibly explain why the O's have been so bad for so long', most of you would rather say 'he's overrated'!

Come on Pete.... you're in a position of power. You're a writer in a one paper town. You give your true opinions about the Ravens, please do so about the O's as well. It can't just be about hype anymore.

I mean it's impossible to hype this new guy Pie for example (you haven't Pete, but the Sun has). While we obviously didn't give up much, this guy is the future? Can you please breakdown his minor and major league stats so everyone can read them for themselves? This guys going to be given a platoon spot even before camp? It's laughable!

I know, I know..... Trust Macphail! Problem is, I heard such 11, 8, 5 and 3 years ago! And I'll hear it for years to come still.....

Blind faith when it come to this once proud franchise is not warranted....not anymore!

Thank goodness Mazzone finally told us all exactly why the Orioles have become the laughing stock of sports!

...............................................................................................
Pete's reply: Please, go on. How exactly do I feel? If you needed Leo Mazzone to tell you that the Orioles have been mismanaged the past 11 years, you're certainly not qualified to question my integrity as a journalist. I've spent a lot of my career here holding the Orioles feet to the fire, and you have the nerve to rip me because I'm not willing to join you in your simple-minded attempt to lump MacPhail in with the previous 9 1/2 years. Spare me.

Pete, Can you ever truly be critical of the O's? Seriously, it's as if you're afraid they'll take your credentials away if you ever truly disagree with them.

You didn't render an opinion on Mazzone, but it's obvious how you feel.

Why is it posters, that when anyone is critical of the O's (as Mazzone was), most feel a need to defend the organization? I mean if you just stepped away for minute, you would see that the sports world looks at the O's as one of the worst organizations in ALL of sports. And its been this way for many years now.

Before anyone says Mazzone had alot to work with in Atlanta, how about asking the pitchers who worked with him. Has anyone asked Smoltz how much Mazzone did for his overall career? Come on everyone!

The only way to truly turn things around is by holding this organization accountable. Of course what Mazzone says is true! Look at the past 11 years people. Of course he telling the truth!

But instead of saying 'wow, that could possibly explain why the O's have been so bad for so long', most of you would rather say 'he's overrated'!

Come on Pete.... you're in a position of power. You're a writer in a one paper town. You give your true opinions about the Ravens, please do so about the O's as well. It can't just be about hype anymore.

I mean it's impossible to hype this new guy Pie for example (you haven't Pete, but the Sun has). While we obviously didn't give up much, this guy is the future? Can you please breakdown his minor and major league stats so everyone can read them for themselves? This guys going to be given a platoon spot even before camp? It's laughable!

I know, I know..... Trust Macphail! Problem is, I heard such 11, 8, 5 and 3 years ago! And I'll hear it for years to come still.....

Blind faith when it come to this once proud franchise is not warranted....not anymore!

Thank goodness Mazzone finally told us all exactly why the Orioles have become the laughing stock of sports!

Neither Leo nor Ray Miller nor (so far) Rick Kranitz has been able to get much out of these pitchers. Maybe Leo is right.

These post are embarrassing!

In this town, one simply is not allowed to truly criticize the Orioles, especially the media!

Of course what Mazzone says is true. How else can one explain how the O's have long been considered (by many in the sportsworld) as the worst organization in all of sports?

Instead of saying 'wow, maybe that explains why the O's have become the definition of a doormat', most would rather discredit someone for merely speaking the truth.

By the way, someone should ask Smoltz who he credits for saving his career before saying Mazzone is overrated. Some of these post are just laughable!

I know everyone is suppose to say 'I trust Macphail'. I know we're all suppose to have blind faith. I'm sorry though.....I've heard such for 11 straight years, and the Orioles have no longer earned the right to be trusted.

Now we're to trust that Pie should be given a shot to be given (at minimum) the platoon job in left field. Pete, can you show everyone this guys minor/major league stats so everyone can see for themselves what a joke we've become? I mean what kind of team wouldn't at least make a guy like this compete in camp?

The O's, that's who...the laughing stock in all of sports!

Hey Wayne,
If you think it's appropriate to rip Pete Schmuck and question his integrity and you think it's appropriate for someone who was paid very well to work for a company and fail (Mazzone) and then to rip everyone else.
If this is appropriate, I hope you never work for my company and it reminds one of how we can be so vicious when typing away at a keyboard.
Maybe you and Mazzone could go into business as restaurant critics or something.

If he was so great how come Atlanta didnt try their best to keep him there.

Leo is right! While he should have been more professional...he's dead right. You have to have some raw talent to mold in order to be successful long term and it just wasn't there. Kranitz got nothing from them this year, no one got anything from them before. Look at Berdard, Cabrera and Olson this year! For those who believe he was over-rated...look at his Cy staff records prior to coming to Atlanta...None were considered great.

I'm always amused when an "outsider' insults the Orioles and fans blindly come to the team's defense. It's a horribly run franchise, folks, we all know that! No wonder Mazzone's bitter.

I hope that soon we'll be able to say it WAS a horribly run franchise. But to claim anything else about the Mazzone era is just ignoring the facts.


.............................................................................................
Pete's reply: I have no quarrel with what Leo said, just the context in which he said it. Everybody knows the team was direction=less mess. Maybe that has changed, but we'll have to see how the MacPhail era plays out.

I apologize as my attempt was not to rip you....

Instead, I just wish the media as a whole would treat the Orioles the same as they treat the Ravens (see last year). It just seems as though there's a constant positive spin put on everything the O's do.

Mazzone may be bitter, but why isn't what he's saying true? Why would people defend the O's, yet discredit one of the most respected coaches for the last 2 decades? Is that not blind faith?

And why not lump Macphail with the prvious 9 years? Did the O's not lose more games last season than the season before? Are there signs that suggest the O's won't lose even more games this year?

Do we as fans continue to simply sit back and say 'lets just allow the kids to progress' (same as we heard in 2004)? Do we just continue listening to the same ole 'you shouldn't expect much this year, or even next...but there's a plan in place'?

Seriously, when does it all get old?

Mazzone isn't a bad guy. He may have an ego, but he never really had a bad reputation. Why didn't he do us a favor by speaking the truth?

Maybe I should have just gone along like most and said Mazzone is a xshgs! Afterall, that's what the warehouse would prefer.

I was an 81 season ticket holder until 4 years ago. When i gave them up, those around me said I was making a mistake because 'the O's were on the right track'. Now though, many of those same loyal fans (since memorial stadium) have since given up their seats as well.

I love baseball, but sometimes (just sometimes) you wish the game you're watching would matter to someone other than the team the O's are playing.

I'm sorry, but with Pie, our new SS, a beyond his prime pitcher from Japan, and the other forgettable SP we acquired, I can't imagine why there would be any reason to hope. I mean Pete, look at our pitching. I mean come on!

Again, I'm sorry if I offended you! When you posted about the Mazzone story, I knew most fans would come to the O's defense. I guess I just wish everyone would hold the O's accountable once and for all by demanding a better product

I did my part 4 years ago by giving up my season tickets. I want to go back though (I really do), but I can't support that warehouse. They've lied to us for far to long!

Sorry again!

.............................................................................................
Pete's reply: To answer your question, it all got old a long, long time ago. Nothing Leo said was false. I just think the context was strange. I've said many times that every fan has a right to say "enough" and not come along for this rebuilding program, but I don't think it's fair to criticize it in it's early stages. If you think it's just more of the same, you probably should just look away. I've already called on the team to open its books, and I've called on the owner to sell the team. I'm not going to do it over and over. That just gets old and boring.

Hey,

If getting poor results from your pitchers and bad-mouthing your former employer are the only requirements for being a highly-paid pitching coach for the Orioles, then throw some of that confederate money my way! Don't forget to hire my best friend as manager.

Hello Pete,

I don't know what everyone else is reading, but you rip the O's enough. Maybe because you're fair in your comments, not like Rosenthal. Mazzone is an old fool who was overhyped in the first place. Can anyone tell me who he developed that had marginal talent? Maddux, Glavine & Smoltz would be HOF pitchers even if a chimpanzee was the coach. Who else? How 'bout those great bullpen's they had in Atlanta? Oh, there wasn't any. Also, what a class act to throw Perlozzo under the bus. Nice friend. Pete, keep reporting what you see. I appreciate your writing and fairness. Andy MacPhail is doing a great job, let's give him more time. We are NOT gonna suck this year.

I've played baseball my whole life and I honestly think that a great pitching coach can make all the difference. But if his program isn't allowed to work then it can cause the pitchers problems. (From personal experience I had to pitching coaches in high school, and suceeded very well under them) however once I had the coach at my high school who thought he knew everything try and change everything it caused me a lot of problems.

I don't think they gave Leo enough time, and while I'm not a big fan of the O's moves this season I don't think people are giving AM enough time, nor Rick Kranitz as far as I can tell. Personally Pete I enjoy your blog and check it more than once a day.


............................................................................................
Pete's reply: Thanks very much. I hope they let this thing play out for awhile. It just might work.

It's amusing to see this blog suddenly shift from detractor-heavy to defender-heavy after Mazzone's all-too-true-and-we-know-it comments. Leo has a big ego? Hm...I wonder if any MLB pitchers have big egos. Leo should keep his mouth shut because he offends you? Please do not imagine that he cares. Leo is an idiot? Not the first idiot to be in the major leagues (Google Pete Rose). Much ado about zero. O's stank then, stink now -- and I'm a lifelong fan back to 1954. Still hopin' for 'em not to.

.............................................................................................
Pete's reply: I liked Leo personally, but he kind of set himself up with his comments. How can he say that when he got to spring training he could see how screwed up everything was? He was one of the guys who set up that spring training program.

Why is everysone so mad that Mazzone told the truth ?

This team is a joke and everyone knows it. Superior talent got run off from the FO down to the players--even the play by play guy couldn't take it (Gillick, johnson, miller et al to name a few) and were replaced with sycophants and yes men more interested in raising profits than fielding a winner. Winning isn't the priority, the bottom line is the priority here.There were many FA's available that could've helped this team improve in a hurry. As per usual, we're dumpster diving. Its only Jan, but payroll estimates have us behind KC in payroll. Being outspent by the Skanks and Sux is one thing, but KC? come on! I don't hear anyone in the media asking ownership why they keep perpetrating this fraud on an abused fanbase thats been taken advantage of for too long. The Tigers lost 119 games and were in the WS 3 yrs later. At this rate, the O's should be playing meaningful sept games again sometime around 2027.

Anyone notice that we've been planning for the yr after next for over a decade now?

Don't feed me any crap about how things will be different under macFAIL. He guided the Cubs to a whopping .475 winning pct over his 12 yrs at the helm, wininng the weak NL central only once/ The 12 yrs preceeding the macfail regime were more successful and they've won back to back division titles now that they got his ultra conservative arse out of there.

I guess its easier just to give andy the benefit of the doubt than spend some time scrutinizing what he accomplished the preceeding 12 yrs before joining us. He did help the Cubs become more profitable and that's his true agenda here, otherwise we would've done more than add a bunch of over the hill retreads that don't cost too mcuh

i believe him

Peter, "Wayne" was spot on with his comment about giving MacPhail a free pass while you criticized the Ravens. Your post yesterday in point. You spent a lot of space saying what was wrong with a team that was one game away from the Super Bowl. For a team that OVERACHIEVED, I think it's short-sighted to pound on them because they fell short. Of course they have holes and things that need to be addressed next year. But boy, you sure couldn't wait to pound on the corpse, could ya? While you wanted to "wallow" most of us understood the Steelers were the better team and I have confidence that the Ravens will figure out how to overcome that. In addition to their already top notch front office, they finally have two missing pieces: a QB they can build around and a Head Coach that doesn't overrate his abilities.

So lets see, the team that actually has it's stuff together get's a kick in the butt when it's temporarily down, and meanwhile, the team that gives disorganized and disfunctional new meaining gets the benefit of the doubt just beacuse they have a new GM.

.............................................................................................
Pete's reply: Don't be silly. I said in the entry about the Ravens that I was going to spend one post talking about what went wrong in the game. I've been saying all season long what a great job Harbaugh and Flacco have done. I was just reflecting the emotion of the night. And, I repeat, I never said you're obligated to give a new GM the benefit of the doubt. I said that if you were a fair-minded fan, you would do that. Frankly, if I had adopted your philosophy, I would have trashed Flacco after the team fell to 2-2. I mean, the Ravens were crappy the year before, so why not blame the new QB for that. Same illogic as blaming MacPhail for 11 losing seasons.

I agree with Leo, He messed up big time. not only did he get himself fired but his best friend too.
Yes, dealing with prima donnas can be hard but isn't that what he was hired for?

I thought it was interesting that Mr. Moore only had one source, Mazzone himself, and a lot of favorable history as the only credible information in the piece. It would have probably helped his argument if he'd talked to Glavine, Maddux and Smoltz to see what kind of help Mazzone provided them throughout their careers.
I also thought it was a little ridiculous, the point that he made at the end of the story about how the pitchers in their rotation wouldn't have been a part of the rotation in years past.

Mazzone never worked well with youngsters and that showed through with the Orioles. He shouldn't have accepted Baltimore money if he didn't think he could work with the product. If he discovered that after a week on the job, how much research could he have possibly put into it?

Pete... I know the O's haven't given you an opportunity to do it recently, but thanks for having enough creativity not to have to use Cy as the first name of every great O's pitcher. Back in the old days, they used to call that a groaner.

I remember that the Yankees wanted Mazzone really bad and he would have been a success there, but only because they already had good pitching.
When an Oriole, he couldn't teach. If the pitchers were "soft" here, why didn't he toughen them up? If he was what was advertised, Daniel Cabrera should have been a twenty game winner.

In the article Mazzone says “Once I got there and saw how they operated compared to the Braves, I knew I made a mistake the first week of spring training,” “The lack of organization. The lack of discipline. The lack of overall professionalism. I was shocked, and I couldn’t believe it.”

OK Leo, that’s all well and good if you aren’t the pitching coach for the Orioles, but Leo, guess what? You WERE the pitching coach. They were paying you to straighten things out. The Orioles obviously knew they had problems that needed addressed. Why else would they have fired the previous pitching coach? If you thought for one second that the Orioles haven’t had a winning season because of bad luck and it was in no way because of their lack of organization and professionalism that you speak of, than you obviously are naive.

Leo, I believe the reason they tossed you out is because you were not a leader. Instead you ride on the coattails of good managers and do what they say. If the Orioles were in such bad shape then you more than anyone else except for the manager were in a position to change things around. But you didn’t.

Thanks for everything Leo!

Pete,

I read the article in the ACJ, two points come to mind, that he regrets keeping a promise to his best friend, Sam and that your only as good as your talent. Ask Gary Williams at Maryland what it's like to have inferior talent. I did find his comments about the O's being soft and unorganized very to the point. The only thing you can make with lemons is lemonaide. I always thought the guy landed in the good fortune of have 3 HOF pitchers on his staff in Atlanta, but you can't turn lemons into HOF pitchers! If he feels too bad ask us Oriole fans what we thought of him! Good riddance!

I didn't not realize you've pressed the O's to open their books or to sell the team. Good for you!

I don't envy you having to report or make commentary on a team that has been run so poorly for so long.

Anyway, someone wrote earlier about Macphails 12 years in Chicago. Was he accurate? If so, what am I missing?

I will admit, some of the moves last year were promising as it seemed we traded for some good young talent. But that was last year (a last place finish mind you).

This year, even the most optimistic fans are shaking their heads.

Let's see: A SS who would be a platoon player on any contending team, a seemingly over the hill Japanese player (which will only help other possible players in that market learn about how bad the O's are), another SP with a worse era than the departing Cabrera, an outfielder whose minor/major stats are underwhelming at best.....

This is our new crop? This gives us hope for next year or the year after?

Pete, please pull out those old notes about showing us the books and selling the team. Please do it though before I have to read about another signing the likes of this guy Pie......

By the way, I get the Pie signing.... if he was looked at as a prospect. But they gave the dude a LF platoon already! If that's not the definition of a STILL dysfunctional organization, I don't know what is....

Bottom line Peter, they don't care that they lost my 81 package 4 years ago... And they don't care about those around me who left as well.

I'm sorry, but I truly believe Mazzone did this city a favor (if everyone just listened for once). The moves I mentioned above seem to prove that nothing has changed...not really!

..............................................................................................
Pete's reply: It's certainly possible that this rebuilding plan ends up getting the O's no higher than third place, but I think it is the only realistic course of action, so I'm going to give it a chance. As for MacPhail, if he failed to get the Cubs a world title in 12 years, there are 88 years unaccounted for. He got them to within a deflected foul ball of their first World Series in about 60 years, which doesn't sound like failure to me.


Pete-

Ya ain't going to vet any remorse from me that Mazzone's stay here was very brief. Look at the immense talent he handled while at Atlanta. Baltimore was an altogether different challenge, and Mazzone simply wasn't up to the task

How many people have succeeded during Angelos' reign of terror? Not many. If you're a Chef at Le Bec Fin and you quit your job to work at McDonald's, of course your food isn't going to be as good.

The Braves were a great organization. Cox/Scheurholz were great talent evaluators, and Leo did a great job of nurturing that talent. The Orioles are a bad organization, and the players that Leo was given to work with were hopeless.

There is no hope for the Orioles as long as Angelos owns the team. If you want to see winning baseball around here, take the 2-hour trip North to see the World Champion Phillies!!!


Pete--Looking at the picture you chose to accompany the post "Leo Mazzone lights Orioles up," I couldn't help but think--Like a jack-o'-lantern.

Pete, We already know that PA cares mostly about $$$, that he won't reinvest profits in this team, that he meddles stupidly and secretly, that he lawyers, bargains, and seeks the lowest ball in any deal. Somebody has to do that or the team leaves town to rip off suckers in the next city.
We already know that AM has a plan and seems to be progressing, with young pitchers, a young outfield, a young catcher, and fielding strength up the middle-where it matters most. He is building a strong bullpen and leaving openings for his young pitchers to develop. The market has come to the warehouse and the FA's may be getting worried about future $$$. What we don't know is about bRob-what does he want? We know the low ball is coming but that might be the most he can now expect. If he walks away from guaranteed millions during a year when many are losing their jobs and homes, who should O's fans rip? What a country. Thanks for the timely blog, Pete.

Pete - with Pie not having any options it left it was clearly make or break for him with the Cubs. And since they already have a bunch of outfielders, break was more likely. That said, do you think the O's gave up too much for him? Could they have maybe gotten him off of waivers in a few weeks?

Thanks!


Being the Pitching Coach of the Baltimore Orioles was probably akin to being the offensive coordinator of the Tampa Bay Bucs under John McKay.

He is brilliant as a pitching coach but you have to coach talent. The fact os Cabrera went through 4 pitching coaches here in Baltimore.

Pete
Each time I read your blog I am struck by how many of your readers don't know jack about baseball. I have never seen such fuzzy logoc anywhere.

..............................................................................................
Pete's reply: That just means that everybody is just as confused as I am.

Considering Mazzone's comments the self-serving justificastions of a guy who failed/quit in his Orioles job and considering the Oriole's an abject failure in the Angelos era are not mutually exclusive thoughts.

Pete, is it true that teams are afraid to spend? I keep hearing guys like Dunn, Abreu, Anderson, etc., are going to take 1 yr. deals because the market is that bad. I know this impossible to answer with 100% certainty, but does this favor the Os in their quest to resign Brian and the possibility of Garland? I haven't heard of any teams knocking down his door since he asked for 13 mil in Vegas.

It really doesn't seem like teams are spending outside of NY, Boston and Chicago. Is this legit or a smokescreen to get players to sign for less? Other than LA and San Fran, I haven't heard another club express interest in Manny. These guys could play for 1 dollar and still be ok financially, but this is the softest free agency period in quite some time. There could be some big time steals come spring training.


..............................................................................................
Pete's reply: I think it does improve the chances of Brian re-signing and the O's getting a decent starter at a bargain price, but I'm not betting on either.

Lack of professionalism? Sam Perlozzo, Leo's best friend was the Manager; so does this mean Leo is a bad friend or a bad Manager for not mentioning that before to Sammy?

Mazzone in my mind ruined Cabrera. let's forget him and look forward to 09 and hopefully see progress for the pitching staff. I think maybe some of these new kids will be just what we need. I still think signing a Sheets or perez to a one or two year deal is not a bad idea. just so we won't rush these kids. who knows Sheets might stay healthy and really contribute.

If Mazzone knew how horrible things were the very first week, why didn't he ask out right away? And why didn't he know some of this even before he arrived, as in do your homework? And why didn't his best friend tell him how horrible they were before he decided to come over? And how come Atlanta let him go so easily? What a jerk. Sure, the O's had some issues. Look's like Leo just wanted to observe those issues and shake his head, rather than being part of the solution he should've been for the big bucks he got.

Now, moving on, I LO-LO-LOVE the efforts of Andy MacPhail. These two trades may not pan out to be anything memorable in a positive manner, especially the second one, but look at the net effect. Pauley and Olson are a near-wash to me, neither with special up-side. Hence, in effect, we got Pie for Bierd. Pie may never evolve into what he once was projected to be, but was well worth the risk ... as in what risk? Remember, he's just 23. I do wish the O's would add one of the several viable free-agent starters, but again, this team has turned some corners the last few days.

Oh, and they locked up probably their best player for the next six years.

Let's get Roberts signed, add a reliable starter and go from there.

Pete-

Let's jump into the "WayBack Machine" for a minute...we see a litany of excellent Orioles pitching coaches -Harry Brecheen, George Bamberger, Ray Miller. These guys were part and parcel of "the Oriole Way", in the days when starters actually aspired to finish games they started (gosh, what a concept!)
Here's my beef with "the Rocking Man" (aka Mazzone): why didn't his whining start immediately after his firing? Why did he hesitate until now?
The way he ripped this organization was also an indirect way of saying his pal Sam Perlozzo was clueless as a manager. I wonder if they're still pals after Mazzone's juvenile rant. Just another bitter fat pitching coach looking for someone to latch onto his juvenile blather...

Mazzili, Perlozzo, Mazzone......
Notice anything similar about these three guys?
Yep.... all three did a zzucky job for the Oriolezz and all three wazzted our time azz O'zz fanzz.
Abzzolutely none of their three signingzz, their prezzence here, or their rezzpective departurezz had any zzignificance to Oriole hizztory whatzzoever.

..............................................................................................
Pete's reply: I'm getting sleepy.

I don't think you can say the free agent market has really softened up that much. Most of the guys left have their flaws-age, attitude, medicore recent seasons. For the most part, teams are avoiding the risky signings and hopefully are starting to come to their senses. I'm sure the union will cry colllusion!
The Os' should stay away from the players that are left and concentrate on developing what young pitchers/players they have. We already have our roster clogged up with enough 1-2 year stop-gap 'veterans' .

This is for wayne. The cubs success (or lack thereof) is a matter of record. While macFail was running the ship inb Chitown, the Cubs posted a .475 Winning % ---. Look it up. One division title in 12 yrs--look it up. The 12 yrs preceeding macFail had a higher winning %----look it up. 2 division titles in 2 yrs since he left----look it up. This blind faith in macFail is tantamount to intellectual laziness.+

Is he better than the preceeding slugs trugging through the warehouse ? YES. Is he good enough to make this team a winner, Of course not.

In the weak NL central, the cubs were the bullies on the block with easily the most resources and won the division 1 time, competeing with the juggernauts of Pitt, Cincy, Mil, et al. They lost 90 games 5 times. In Chicago, MacFail is held in the same regard as Thrift is here.GO to a Cubs fansite and ask them what they think of his regime and our chances of success with him

MacFail's strength in running a team is INCREASED PROFITABILITY_ he's not going to sacrifice that rep to go all crazy and do what it takes to build a winner here There were plenty of pieces to help this team NOW that wouldn't have jeopardized the so called "rebuilding" program.

However, Fiscal conservatism ensures a future in another FO for macFail--as long as the team that hires him doesn't care about winning.

DOn't take my word for it. Check the standings vs revenue in the macFail era, the profits went up, but not the wins. 1 division title in 12 yrs vs 5 90 loss seasons and a cumulative winning % of .475. The numbers don't lie.

..............................................................................................
Pete's reply: The two years after he left? And, of course, they got 200 new major and minor league players during that offseason. If you're going to talk about intellectual laziness, you might want to look in the mirror. If he came within Bartman of the World Series and they won the two years after he left, he must have done a pretty good job.

I don't why everyone is so mad at Mazzone. He just stated what we have seen for years here. It all starts with ownership. Lets hope that Andy McPhail is the answer, it seems to be heading in the right direction. Lets keep rebuilding, and be competitive in a few year. It would be nice to see the O's back in the playoffs!

Leo did a great job with the pitchers in Atlanta. Make that the top of the rotation starters. For the years that the Braves went to the playoffs and the World Series, they had no bullpen and certainly no closer. If he was so great how come he couldn't "coach one up" at least once in eleven years? Riding three extraordinary pitchers for eleven years and having them go deep into games sure did pay off for Leo.

A good coach can adjust his coaching style to what the player responds to, not trying to beat a square peg into a round hole then complain when it splinters into pieces. Granted the Orioles have had a lot of suspect talent the past decade but certainly a great pitching coach could make their ERA and walks per game drop half a percentage point in two years. Leo did the opposite and laughed all the way to the bank. (I guess I missed the part where he didn't cash his Oriole checks since they were so unprofessional)

I am aquainted with a former Braves relief pitcher who was on the team for two years with Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, and good old Leo. He was on the team the year they won the World Series. I have had quite a few discussions about his time in ATL, especially when we first hired Leo. His first words were "Mazzone didn't do s%@t for me or most anyone else. Greg Maddux sat in the dugout and called pitches and was the one they used to work on mechanics and such. Leo just sat back and took the credit." This is not all that was said, just the initial reaction to my question that I asked. Now I know everyone has heard some of these things about Maddux so coming from someone who was on the team, I have to beleive that at least a part of what he said was true.

All I can point out on Leo is Erik Bedard and Jeremy Guthrie turned in pretty good years under Leo.

Leo's comments were pretty much accurate of the organization. He should have kept them to himself though but hey lets move on.

i loved Leo at first...."i'm Leo Mazzone and i want you to throw fastballs low and away."
But he had major horses in Atlanta,
and said horses didn't even love him, as i hear it.

One fact is that the O's developed a lot of arm injuries during Mazzone's two years. That prompted an examination of the whole training process, if you will recall, throughout the organization. Leo had 'em throwing more than they ever had, probably without sufficient buildup. Facts are hellish.

Krabby Patty ..Good points about Leo the genius..especially about the 'pen. The best closer they had in recent years was Smoltz.
Mazzone can rave about how great the Braves organization is but why didn't they extend him or offer more money so he wouldn't have had to 'stoop' to the lowly O's? I'm not sold on the mighty Braves anymore. They couldn't even lure Furcal back, Smoltz bolted and now there's rumours that they are considering giving the eating machine Andruw Jones another shot. They sold the farm to rent Tiexiera for a couple of months and their 'ace' is a guy named Jurgens?? Maybe Leo should come back and right the ship!

Someone is a little sensitive. I can't believe the Schmuckster keeps playing the bartman card while ignoring the .475 winning pct that macFail posted at the helm during his 12 yr tenure. You keep talking about that one season but ignore the seasons that don't support your position. What about the five 90 loss seasons ? What about the fact that they won more during the 12 yr block before macFail got there? He came from the team with the most money in the division and still couldn't get it done. How is he supposed to overtake the Skanks and Sux when he won't spend money or even take any risks ? The Tigers went from 119 losses to the WS in 3 yrs and they weren't afraid to spend money and take some risks on some FA's. The Tigers were even worse off then, then we are now.

What if Matusz, Tillman and Arrieta become Riley, Loewen and Stephens ? Oops, that didn't work out but at least we didn't spend too much money on FAs!! What about postion players? DId you happen to notice, we have no one for 1b,2b or 3b after this yr and no one is even remotely close in the minors

We get it Schmuckie, you don't want to go all factual about the macFail regime when you can keep clinging to the Bartman bs. that somehow negates everything else he failed to accomplish in Cubdom despite vast resources. Its easier for you to just defer to macFail than ruffle some feathers at the warehouse by taking them to task on how much longer they plan on perpetrating this fraud on us hapless suckers. Retreads and has-beens are not "rebuilding" no matter how you try to spin it. There were many players under 30 who could've helped this team, if the FO was willing to kick out some loot. They prefer to pocket the profits rather than spend it back on the team and they do so with complete immunity from the local media.
There were plenty of elite FA's that would've helped this team field a more competitive team, but as per usual. macFail gets a pass from his flunky, the Schmuckmeister.

Does anyone ever wonder what the NY or Boston or Philly media would do if Angelos tried to hoodwink them like he does to us here ?

Someone should be holding the warehouse accountable, no ?

..............................................................................................
Pete's reply: That's Mr. Flunky to you. I believe MacPhail had five winning seasons in his 12 with the Cubs, plus the two afterward which you have to give him a little of the credit for if you know anything about how a front office works. Before he took over the Cubs, they had three winning seasons in the previous 23 years. Did he have great success. No. Was he a failure? No. Am I a flunky? I'll leave that to you. Judging from your bitter, negative outlook on everything, maybe I should consider that a compliment.

I guess it is the old adage, ‘I’ll say whatever I want about my family, but woe be unto anyone else who does,’ (or something like that).

Yes we know our team has sucked for sometime now, yes we are defensive, perhaps neurotically so. What the hell do you expect us to do? Become wank/botox fans? While it’s been frustrating all these years, Mr. Schmuck correctly points out the past isn’t MacPhail’s fault. He represents our best chance of being relevant again.

As for ‘cy’ mazz, I’m sure most of us see his conduct as unprofessional at best. Even if he were telling the truth, slamming the O’s to anyone who will listen only makes him look like the gutless turd he apparently is.

Pete-

What galaxy is that "Bear the Birdfan" from? I enjoyed your reply to him...and I'll say it until I get on everyone's nerves in the blogosphere -why don't you reveal your true identities? What the hell are you hiding or ashamed of? Did your mamas tell you to be ashamed of your birthright names? Come forth and reveal...

I think Leo hit the nail on the head. The O's at that time were a joke, poor management from top to bottom, that's why the O's had soooo many losing seasons! I wish Leo was still with the O's with a good GM like AM. When you are in the dumps year after year, you need coaches to have a more military style to get the job done. Don't blame Leo for the O's misfortunes with the pitching staff, blame the poor management team that did not give him much to work with and blame the then pitching staff for not listening to the master.

That would be The Milky Way.
And "Bear" happens to be my actual first name. Take care now.... and thanks for playin'.

First of all, Leo came from Atlanta. You can say what you want to about Atlanta, but it is one of the class organizations in all of professional sports. Apparently, Baltimore didn't have the same sort of professionalism in its front office, in its dugout and among its players. Second, you should note where Atlanta's pitchers have ranked since Leo left us. For many years, Atlanta was first or second in the NL in ERA. No more. Tell you what. We'll GLADLY take Leo back and give you McDowell.

..............................................................................................
Pete's reply: Maybe, but there's a big difference between Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz in their prime and what McDowell has had to work with. Let's be fair.

After reading the posts on Leo, I can about guarantee you wherein lies the problem. It's not with Leo. The O's basically suck and Leo told you so. There's no need to kiss anybody's behind. If you suck, you need to be told that. Guess what, Pete? Orioles suck. Spend some time in the Atlanta clubhouse and you'll get a clue.

.............................................................................................
Pete's reply: As I have said many times, the problem isn't what Leo said. Everybody knows that here. The problem is, he was one of the guys who set up that spring training where he claims there was no professionalism.

What ever happened to Ray Miller? I kind of thought he was doing allright with some of our young pitchers before they gave him the boot in favor of Sammy Perlazo's old buddy. I know he had some health concerns at the time.

...............................................................................................
Pete's reply: I think Ray's doing fine, but haven't talked to him in about a year.

Keith B (Macon). The Atanta Braves used to be a pretty good organization but even the most die-hard fan has to question their direction and competitiveness in recent years. They've finished in the middle of the pack in their division, their offense has a lot of holes and their pitching isn't that hot either. They tried to address their rotation by severly over-paying for Lowe and bringing in Vasquez and couldnt even convince Furcal to come back for more $$ than LA was offering. It's hard to see them finishing higher than 3rd even if they could convince Mazzone to get off the couch and 'work his magic' one more time.
Yes, they are better than the O's (as most MLB teams are right now) but I like the direction we are moving.

There was only one person here for the previous 10 years of disorganization and unprofessionalism preceding Leo's arrival -- the manager who enticed him to come aboard.

Leo Mazzone set our pitching staff back several years. He was a terrible coach and had a worse personality. Daniel Cabrera was improving under the steady hand of Ray Miller (who is a genius) and Mazzone came in and ruined him along with most of the O's pitchers. Let him go where he wants and fail again. Hell, I could of coached Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz.

Pete:

I wouldn't give MacPhail too much credit for the Cubs in 2007-08. Why?

2006 to 2007 Team Revisions:

In: Soriano, Lilly, Marquis, Traschel, DeRosa, Kendall, Soto.

Out: Mabry, Neifi Perez, Pierre, Hairston, Walker, Womack, Maddox, Prior, Rusch, Jerome Williams.

2007 to 2008 Team Revisions:

In: Harden, Lieber, Samardzjia, Ward, Edmonds, Fukodome, Reed Johnson.

Out: Wade Miller, Jacque Jones, Murton, Barrett.

The pick-ups include stars, and even old players who filled a gapping hole (one created by Pie doing so poorly that Pinella doesn't want to see his face again.

I have read through everyone's posts and have to laugh at all the losers that were glad Leo Mazzone was fired last year.

Everyone can say what they want to say but the facts are that Leo Mazzone is one of the most successful pitching coaches in baseball history and has a chance to go to the Hall Of Fame. He went from one of the most professional organizations (Braves) to one of the most unprofessional organizations (Orioles) and had nothing to work with.

Many people want to downplay his success because he had some great pitchers like Glavine, Maddox and Smoltz. Does anyone in Baltimore think Earl was overrated? Does anyone in Baltimore think that George Bamberger was overrated because he had Palmer, McNally, and Cuellar? No, because the majority of Bamberger's time was spent on the marginal young pitchers, just like Leo Mazzone.

RichD is right - Leo spoke his mind and got canned like Davey Johnson. He made a bad career move because the Orioles have no patience to straighten out their pitching problems. If you don't want to believe it - look at all the pitching coaches we've had since Breechen, Bamberger, and Miller.

Pete,
Leo deserved more time.He got the same raw deal that Davy Johnson did.O's fans need to realize what it takes to produce a winner.TIME!!!

Jack

No wonder Baltimore is such a crap city with an embarrassingly terrible baseball team. It's full of ignorant d-bags. You morons were LUCKY to get Leo, and instead of letting him do his job, you fired him. Simpletons. You can blame Leo all you want and say whatever you want. When the O's win 14 straight division titles led mostly by stellar pitching, come talk to me.

Post a comment

All comments must be approved by the blog author. Please do not resubmit comments if they do not immediately appear. You are not required to use your full name when posting, but you should use a real e-mail address. Comments may be republished in print, but we will not publish your e-mail address. Our full Terms of Service are available here.

Please enter the letter "m" in the field below:
About Peter Schmuck
Peter Schmuck wants you to know that, contrary to popular belief, he is more than just a bon vivant, raconteur and collector of blousy flowered shirts. He is a semi-respected journalist who has covered virtually every sport -- except luge, of course – and tackled issues that transcend the mere games people play. If that isn’t enough to qualify him to provide witty, wide-ranging commentary on the sports world ... and the rest of the world, for that matter ... he is an avid reader of history, biography and the classics, as well as a charming blowhard who pops off on both sports and politics on WBAL Radio. That means you can expect a little of everything in The Schmuck Stops Here, but the major focus will be keeping you up to the minute on Baltimore’s major sports teams and themes, whether it’s throwing up the Orioles lineup the minute it’s announced or updating you on the latest sprained ankle in Owings Mills. Oh, and by the way, that’s Mr. Schmuck to you.

Schmuck column archive

Upload a photo of yourself or a friend wearing the new Peter Schmuck T-shirt, which is on sale at gotschmuck.com
-- ADVERTISEMENT --

Most Recent Comments
Photo galleries

Search our new database for every home run hit hit by the O's and the opposition — home and away — since 1992.

Buy Sports Tickets from the Baltimore Sun Store

Sign up for FREE Orioles alerts
Get free Sun alerts sent to your mobile phone.*
Get free Baltimore Sun mobile alerts
Sign up for Orioles text alerts

Returning user? Update preferences.
Sign up for more Sun text alerts
*Standard message and data rates apply. Click here for Frequently Asked Questions.
Blog updates
Recent updates to baltimoresun.com sports blogs
 Subscribe to this feed
Stay connected