My personal opinion is that the Orioles should sign Roberts to a 3-4 year extension. Why create another hole that needs to be filled to try to pry one or two from another club to fill other holes? It does not make sense.

Roberts is probably the best leadoff hitter and 2B in the American League. He is always at the top in doubles, has a great attitude, and the fans love Brian.

Of course when was the last time Peter Angelos has ever thought of doing anything that would satisfy the fan base?

Pete,
I respectfully (?) disagree that they will be aggressive in the FA market. They will be active, to be sure, trying the fill the holes you mentioned. But to be aggressive, it means a longer deal which is not desirable.

First he figures to try to fill the SS positon through a trade to get the long term solution. If none can be had, AM will sign one of the many SS out there, maybe going 2 years for one. Then I see them going after 2 unsigned pitchers in the spring, using more favorable short term deals rather than the longer ones it would take to get the more desired FAs, esp. pitchers. ("stopgap" signings to avoid the mess that arose last year in the rotation.) But no "albatross" type contracts.

Pete- Didn't you hear? Ryan Howard tackled Chase Utley in the celebration, breaking his leg and ending his career. Ten minutes later they cantacted Macphail offering Cole Hamels and Jimmy Rollins for B-Rob straight up.
In all seriousness now, Markakis got married a couple days ago and ofcourse bought a home in Monkton/Sparks last spring. He seems to like the area here. How good of a sign is that? How many years do you think they are gonna settle on with Nick the Stick? I hope at least 6. Then we don't have to worry about him leaving til after the 2014 season.

I don't think the Orioles will go more than three years with him. They need to sign him as they have nothing in the pipeline (sorry Blake) and he'll be the bridge between the last great Oriole and the next competitive Orioles team. I'm sure Brian wants to sign too, as he's watched his friends all flounder after leaving town. Ponson, Miggy, Gibbons, Bigbie, Bedard - it's tough to make an argument for any of those guys after they left town, at this point.

.............................................................................................
Pete's reply: I don't know if that has anything to do with it. He's a far more established and accomplished player than any of those guys except Miggy and Miggy has a lot of miles on him.

First of all Schmuck, what are you doing awake at 1:28am???

Get some rest, man.

I know there are two distinct schools of thought on Roberts, but the fan in me would really, really hate to see him leave. You'd be hard pressed to find a better leadoff guy and you'd be even harder pressed to find a better person.

Thank God we waved goodbye to Hairston.

The downside to all of this is that the Orioles do not have much to offer to anyone beyond Roberts. I'd like to see him stay simply because without him, no matter who they come up with, the Orioles will not be very solid up the middle. CF is good, shortstop and second base would be up in the air as well as catcher (even if you include rookie Wieters in the mix!). I would concentrate on gathering pitchers and prospects for the likes of Huff, Millar, Walker, Mora. You can never have enough of either.

Personally, I would try to nail this down quick. Brian is a solid player and I think alot of him. We need to stop the bleeding at shortstop and show the fans some long term organizational thought about the rest of the roster.

Pete,
Do Chad Bradford's various playoff appearances for the Rays, including last night, help increase the magnitude of the "player to be named later"? Or, are just we doomed to get, or did we already get, some schm**k?
Tears for O's

............................................................................................
Pete's reply: I doubt there was an individual or team performance clause attached to that deal, so you'll probably get another Schmuck. Maybe we'll be related.

this is a team that simply needs pitching, albeit loads of pitching. the offense was solid last year. so long as we quit throwing guys like olson and burres out there, we have a solid .500 type team

It will be a challenge to MacPhail's PR and management abilities to attract some quality free agents and convince Roberts that the O's can win in the next couple of years. Roberts is 31 years old so he has reached his prime most likely and if the O's are not competitive by 2010 or '11 time will not be on his side to go to the WS. There are not many Moyers around that can play past 40 and it even tougher for a position player to last into their late 30's.

Roberts re-sign? Why? Does he really want to play on a proven loser?
Peter the not-so-great will not spend the money to keep the good players.

I believe Roberts will pull a Mussina--act interested in signing but will leave for a more competative team and blame the front office for not signing him due to a low balling contract.

Personally, I would try to nail this down quick. Brian is a solid player and I think alot of him. We need to stop the bleeding at shortstop and show the fans some long term organizational thought about the rest of the roster.

Peter, do you have a sense for whether the desire to have Roberts stick around is a baseball decision, or is there undue pressure "from above" to have a popular player remain in uniform?

I think the O's must look at trade possibilities and try to fill some holes. I like Roberts, and think he has a decent odds at remaining a solid contributor for several more years. However, if the O's can get a four-for-one swap (or whatever) with some good young talent in return, they'd be remiss to pass it up.

If Roberts chooses no extension, he'll force the decision. There will be no ill will from me. I'll say good luck and I hope he is traded to a decent team. It would probably be nice to experience some winning for a change. Baltimore will always welcome him back.

I think Roberts does want to be a Oriole, Like he said during the season about Bedard & Tejada wanting to get out of town and look how that thing ended up. But i do think he would want Andy to tell him that he will bring free agent players in to help this team win before he does sign any contract. I hope they re-sign him, Besides look at the 2nd base market and tell me who could fill his shoes? I just don't see it

The great O's teams always bult their team strong up the middle, which included excellent SS and 2B men. If Roberts isn't there, holy cow, we're even more pathetic

Sometimes, especially in team sports, a player's value is far more than raw stats. Such a player is Brian Roberts, who is an exceptional player, an exceptional team guy, and an exceptional citizen. Blue-collar towns need BR type guys on their blue-collar teams. I think inking him to a 4-year deal should be priority 1-A, right next to doing the same for Nick M.

We are better off bringing in the 3-4 players we would get in return in a trade. Time to think outside the box O's. McPhail is at a disadvantage here b/c Angelos has a man-crush on BRob.

MacPhail has made it clear that he'd like to sign Roberts to an extension, but he hasn't put his money where his mouth is. This sounds to me like a cursory effort to make Roberts look like the bad guy when he trades him after making either an insulting lowball offer or no firm offer at all.

Pete, If you are Andy MacPhail for a day, how aggressive are you with your offer? Do you offer a "market rate" contract or something more generous given his tenure, stature and popularity? (I'm figuring that since you're Andy, you have a better handle on the degree of Roberts' loyalty.)

.............................................................................................
Pete's reply: I think you offer a market-plus contract. That way, you find out in a hurry if he wants to stay. If he turns it down flat, you move on and trade him.

Pete-Trading Roberts creates several holes to fill, not just one. Second base AND leadoff hitter, then perhaps face of the franchise. We have some face depth with Markakis and Jones, but nothing at second or leadoff. I just cant see the return on a trade being that high for Roberts that we would not create more holes than we would fill. We actually have want we want with Roberts. No need to trade for or sign a free agent for these two positions. We all know what he will give us for the next 3-4 years, great effort, all star defense and solid numbers at the plate. He might even steal a couple bases. Why would we let him get away. It would be nice to have him retire as an Oriole. The Ravens just had Ogden retire and soon Ray Lewis will be next. They will be Kings' in our city for decades to come. Roberts can join them. The O's have to see some value in having Roberts stick around. If they cant put a winning team on the field, maybe they can at least keep the players that get the job done and the fans actaully know and like.
Pay the young man his money. He has earned it. Thx
Thx

That sounds like a Catch-22 to me. I think the O's need to resolve the Roberts situation quickly if they intend to be a player in the free agent market. A winter of indecision would serve no one. I give Andy MacPhail his due, but this is not going to be the time to be deliberate. The plan has to be executed and executed quickly if the Birds are going to make any noise. The drawn out deals of last winter worked well, but I think this year there will be a need for more urgency.

I think that the Orioles are going to put it together and have a .500 season in '09. I feel like the Orioles only major problem is starting pitching. That was why their bullpen sucked so bad at the end of '08. I think if Troy Patton can fill a void, if the O's can get a decent pitcher (somebody with an era less than 5) through free agency, and if Daniel Cabrera can step up a little bit, they will fix alot of thier problems which stem from their poor rotation. I mean, the offense is pretty good.

Initially, you need to gauge Roberts interest in staying after his contract is up and what he could be re-signed for. He may end up being a bargain for his production. However, if the Os can get a major league quality 2b and ss along with some pitching trade him immediately. Otherwise you would just be creating more holes in the line up with his absence. I would hate to see B-Rob go but it could potentially be beneficial for both parties in the long run.

Colin's right. Mussina was low-balled. We could have had him locked at a fair price through 2005 or 2006, but blew it. His 250 (or so) wins could all have come in an O's uniform, making him the best Oriole pitcher ever; well, either he or Palmer.

Vernon, to compare Mussina and Roberts is absurd. Mussina was a free agent, Roberts has to wait until 2009 off-season and has under all indications showed he wants to stay. And Mussina was low-balled.

For Brian's sake, Brian needs to go. He plays baseball, a competitive game, for a non-competitive team. He has established himself, he won't have many more years left and he deserves to reap even greater rewards in $$, wins and national exposure. I say this even though I love the guy. Markakis, on the other hand, is young enough to reward with a handsome, long-term contract. I doubt the O's will do it.

Colin--I don't call 12 mill a year low balling for Mussina( a pitcher who even when good was a 6-7 inning pitcher who was never willing to play hurt or give a little extra for the team)You are probably from the school of thought that Raffy was jobbed when he left for Texas(where he had built a home) also.--- You are of course welcome to your opinion but Mussina had his own goals in mind that made his decision. 300 wins--20 win season and a World Series Ring--what other reason would a REAL Oriole go and play for the Yankees? It doesn't take much time to answer that one--

If we can get 4-5 decent players/prospects for Roberts, why not trade him? Why is Roberts any different than Tejada-both are 30 plus middle infielders whose trade value is never higher?
If we look at the 'haul' from trading Bedard, Tejada and Roberts, we are potentially looking at 15 players that could someday wear the black and orange or 62% of the roster overhauled. Combine that with 10-15 from within and vioila, a new team! How much worse could we be after the dust settles?
Most of the arguements against trading Roberts are non-baseball ones-good in the community, face of the franchise but from a strictly rebuilding/long-term good of the franchise, it makes a of sense to forget about extending him.

Strong up the middle means:

Pitcher, Catcher, SS, CF. Second base is not part of that equation.

For the longest time the Orioles have been weak at the 1 position on the field and what a shocker, they have been losers ever since.

Roberts probably won't be any more valuable than he is right now in terms of trading him. He has a still reasonable contract for this upcoming season and he's not past his prime in baseball terms. Since he plays the least valuable position on the infield, it would make sense to sell him high now for the best deal you can get.

If he sticks around for another 3 years, who will want a 34 year old 2b who might lose his speed factor?

I am a fan of Roberts for sure and that part of me doesn't want him to go, but the logical part of me says the team could be stronger in the future without him because he might be able to be turned into 2-3 players.

peter i would very much like to see the orioles sign brian roberts to an extention.besides being one of the best lead off men,how many of them are switch hitters. if he turns down a market plus contract offer,then i would say his agent is feeding him a bunch of garbage. it also depends on the length of the contract and whether peter anelos still opposes long term contracts.

Just kidding

Vernon -

No fan in their right mind would think that the O's "jobbed" Rafael Palmeiro. They offered him five years and $50 million and he left for five years and $45 million because he wanted to play near his home.

On the othe hand, the way the Mike Mussina negotiations were handled was a classic example of Peter Angelos' MIC (Massive Idiocy Complex). Two weeks after Mussina filed for free agency, Angelos said that he wouldn't match the offer if another team put a $15 million per deal in front of Mussina. Then, after the Yankees offered Mussina six years and $87 million, the Orioles offered him six years and $78 million, just to say that they tried.

So you're right. $12 million per year wasn't a lowball offer. But when one team offers a guy a contract and you jump in an offer him a contract that would pay him $9 million less just to tell your fans that you made an effort, that's a lowball offer.

As for Brian Roberts, it's a tough situation. You'd hate to sign him to a four year deal and then lose out on Teixeira, Furcal, Burnett and any other solid free agent pitcher. But he is the face of this franchise, he seems to enjoy the city and the city loves him. I, for one, would hate to see Brian Roberts win somewhere other than Baltimore.

Maybe MacPhail should go to Angelos with this plan of attack: "Let's go hard after Teixeira, Furcal and Burnett. We're going to have to offer them a lot more than market value because, face it Pete, Baltimore isn't really a top destination for top free agents. We'll knock $9 million off the books by letting Payton and Millar walk, which puts us down at about $60 million. We'll need to offer Teixeira $18-20 million per year to get him to come home and Burnett and Furcal are going to cost at least $16 each. That puts the payroll at $112 million. I know you can afford that. You haven't even broken into the money you're making off MASN. And that's the kind of money we need to spend if we're going to be competitive in this division any time soon. And we need to look like we're going to be competitive if we want to have a chance at hanging onto Brian Roberts and Nick Markakis."

So there you have it.

-Sign Mark Teixeira to an eight year deal @ $18-$20 million
-Sign A.J. Burnett to a four year deal @ $15-16 million
-Sign Rafael Furcal to a four year deal @ $15-16 million

Holy cow that was optimistic. I think I might have just bought a house in Jimmyville without even realizing it...

Pete, I agree - offer a market plus now, if accepted great then move on Markakis and FA pitching. If not, make the best trade for a SS and 2B or better yet pitching. I would love him to stay, he is one of the best in either league but the team comes first. And Moose offered an insult not a competitive contract by Ebenezer Angelos.

Seems to be the case the longer this drags into the off-season the more likely it is Roberts goes elsewhere, hopefully to a contender. For his loyal service and positive attitude while wearing the black and orange this would seem a meritorious fate?

I'm definitely on the side of resigning Roberts. There isn't enough you can say about what he means to the team and the city.

I just read a blurb on SI.com in the Fan Nation section about Matt Holliday being available. Do you think it would be worth the O's while to see what it would take to get him in our LF for the future?

Vernon, you are letting your personal feelings on Mussina cloud your memory of him. Over his Oriole career Mussina threw over 2009 innings in 288 starts... that's 7 innings per start. Hard to do when "at his best he was only a 6-7 inning pitcher". That also works out to 30 starts per season, not too bad for a guy who "wouldn't play hurt." Angelos low-balled him, not a wise move when dealing with a guy with an economics degree from Stanford. The supposed $12M a year deal came when it was already far too late, and included its own insults (back-loaded, so the present value was lower). I'm hurt he left, too, but I can't blame him.

Eduardp, you clearly don't understand baseball too well. Second base is just as close to the middle of the field as shortstop, requires all the same skills except not quite as strong of an arm, and is more physically demanding at times because of the blind collisions with baserunners. It is more difficult to play than CF (that's why players like BJ Upton are moved to CF when they can't handle SS or 2B) and a whole lot more difficult than 3B and 1B.

If second base is the "least valuable position on the infield" in some people's estimation, that's because usually you don't get anywhere near as much offense from that position as from the corners or even shortstop. When you have a guy who can play above average defense at 2B and easily outperform the rest of your infield offensively, he's your most valuable infielder. This redheaded stepchild nonsense of devaluing Roberts because of the Orioles' decision to move him from SS to 2B years ago is ridiculous. He's a heck of a ballplayer, regardless of position. And he's a lot more valuable at second base than he would be anywhere else save shortstop (which he could play although his arm would be a bit stretched) or catcher.

ORIOLES NO!! do ot trade B-ROB extend him give him 4 years 44 million!
Fans love him, he actually brings the little bit of fans you have to the ballpark!
longest tenure oriole, best overall second baseman in the american league and might be the best in all of baseball(utley only competition) and di i mention FANS LOVE ROBERTS!!! do not trade him, you never kno the orioles could contend next year!!! like the rays did
i think the orioles should help the rebuilding process but also had people to this team. i feel the orioles need to really bust their #$% and sign TEX that will sure up first base for the future! okay next you lock up both B-ROB and MARKAKIS cuz yea everyone knoes why. Then bring in a pitcher or two, AJ BURNETT deff then you will have a 1-2 punch and then get someone like dempster,oliver perez or lowe to be your number 3. i do not want D-CAB to come back but if he is but him as your 5. then the 4 could be Tillman or Begerson unless Olson comes into spring training killing! bullpen is set! you have Albers, Johnson, Ray, Sherril, Baez, Castillo,and another person. so then let weiters be on the team opening dayeither trade or cut ramon, and let montenez,scott and reimold battle for left, on is forth outfielder other in triple A.then sign Cabrera and put him at short. so lineup should look like this
2B-Brian Roberts(31)
RF-Nick Markakis(24)
DH-Aubrey Huff(32)
1B-Mark Texciera (29)
3B-Melvin Mora(35)
C-Matt Weiters(22)
CF-Adam Jones(23)
LF-Montenez,Remold(27,24)
SS-Cabrera(33)
so besides mora and cabrera this could be a great lineup for a long time this team has the money to do this now all they have to do is... basically do it!!! LETS GO ORIOLES DIE HARD FOR LIFE
BMORE WANTS A WINNER

The orioles just need to pick a direction and go with it. Brian Roberts is not only a great player but also a great person in the community. But it makes no sense to sign him long-term unless you are going to be agressive in free agency and try to contend this year or next year. If you are just going to sign him and continue to sign players like a Randy Wolfe or Orlando Cabrera as an example it doesn't drastically improve you in this division. So if it means overpaying for quality guys you might have to do it to a certain extent if thats the direction they go in. But too many years they hand out contracts to Melvin Mora, Jay Gibbons but add nothing of significance in the offseason through trade or free agency except guys who might allow you to compete just enough not to lose 100 games. I just hope Andy Macphail doesn't fall into this trap because you have to build from the ground up and stick with it or if you feel you have the money to spend to try to contend then try and go all out.

Did you forget it was Angelos who turned down the roberts to Atlanta trade ? I think that was a great thing he did for the team !!!!!

Did you forget it was Angelos who turned down the roberts to Atlanta trade ? I think that was a great thing he did for the team !!!!!

For me, BRob is the best player on our team. Logically he has to be traded because he won't sign with the O's for the same reason Moose didn't resign. He can get at least as much money with a winning team, it's that simple. We've got to get a quality starter and a 2nd baseman. Of course, you have to find a team that needs a very good leadoff hitter and 2nd baseman. Everyday that AM waits, costs. Something else--How come you get maybe a dozen comments on Ravens stuff but 50/75 on the O's and during the NFL season?

Hey Pete, I think the O's should hold on to Roberts. He is a scrappy, hard-nosed player. A leader this team needs.
As per the SS situation, what are the chances of the O's going after Cabrera or even Renteria? Either one is an upgrade at the position and the Castro/Bynum/Cintron platoon wasn't scaring any opposing pitching staff.
O's need to improve big time at the 1B and SS position.

Pete, I think Andy will move faster than most people think on the Roberts situation. I think he knows that no one wants another will he or wont he be traded during spring training like this year. Both sides handled it well, but I am not sure round 2 will be as amicable. I don't think Roberts wants to be here even if the money was the same. I think he wants out and even though I am a huge B Rob fan, it's time for him to go. The O's can do more with the trading of Roberts than in 3 drafts by getting good prospects that are major league ready.

Pete, no position is easy to just say you can fill it with anyone, but LF and 2B, seem to be two positions where you can get serviceable players to do well, not like B Rob, but not like the revolving SS door we just witnessed. I think by trading Roberts, you take the money you would have given him and go hard after Furcal who is an explosive player at SS (our weakest position at the major and minor league levels) and maybe you get that 2B in the Roberts trade or you go with a Mark Loretta type for 2009.

I just think that one SP could come from trading Roberts which would allow the O's to go after an elite FA pitcher or at the very least, get two serviceable SPs for 2009 and prospects to help out this year from the trade and years to come because the farm system is weak (improving), but weak from years of bad drafting.

The Orioles need massive pitching help. They should offer starting pitchers so much money that they can't be refused, but keep the contract lengths short to limit their exposure to risk from injury, and coincide with the emergence of Arrietta, Tillman, and Matusz in 2010.

The Orioles also need players who want to play in Baltimore. Knowing Baltimore's national reputation, that means targeting the few stars who are from around here.

So, offer Ben Sheets 2 years at $20 million per year, A.J. Burnett 2 years at $18 million per year, and Mark Teixeira eight years at $20 million per year.

Brian Roberts' next contract should reflect that he is 31, and his game, both offensively and defensively, is based on speed. I would trade him for prospects if he doesn't take a home team discount after seeing the Orioles sign some stars.

stop trying to trade our best player. He still has 5 or 6 really good years ahead of him. He can be the veteran you need on a winning team. He leads by example and the Orioles should reward him for it. I dont trust the Orioles to get good value in a trade. The trades last year were a fluke. Evan a broken watch is right twice a day. Start building this team now around Roberts, Markakis, and go get Texeria at ANY PRICE!

whatever the Os do they must do it quickly and show the remaining fan base what they have to work with to string uot the possibilities mof trades and free agent signing will in the long run turn the fan off and give fodder to those who are on the fence of supportin g another losing season

anyone who knows baseball knows you need to be strong up the middle. considering that, our catcher is one year away from being here, we have the centerfielder now,we need a shortstop desperately and pitching,so why would we not sign Roberts to a 3-4 year contract plus leadoff hitters(the sparkplugs of a team) don't come along very often.

Trade him! He's past his prime--and not at the peak of his value, that would have been last off season--and will not be a factor on the next competitive team. Why have him around, then? Because the fans like him? I'm a fan, and I'd rather have a winning team than B-Rob.

Trade him and every other old guy on the club, if you can. Get the best return you can (which will be next to nothing for some of them, but even salary relief and/or a long-shot prospect would be better than the status quo), and build towards a team that can pitch and defend. Sorta like the AL team from Florida.

Forget trying to be a .500 club next year. It ain't gonna happen, even with Roberts, Huff, etc. Embrace being a horrible team, but a horrible team with a deep farm system. Take another high draft pick. Do it again. Then in 2011 you're talking about a team that can contend.

Ok BaltJohn your right, Angelos has done wonders for this org. We will certainly win a World Series in the next 5 years w/ his meddling ways.

Get a clue......???