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October 19, 2008

Today's featured comment

kylesun.jpgApparently, my new blog-friend JJ thinks I have time to do his homework for him, and he is right:

JJ's take: Hey Pete, someone mentioned that Flacco is doing no better than Boller during his rookie year or anytime. Can you wrestle up a comparison of the two stat wise at this point of their rookie seasons? Thanks.

Pete's reply: Of course, JJ, your wish is my command. I did a little Internet digging and came up with Kyle's day-by-day from his rookie season in 2003, and here are the statistical lines for both players:

Kyle Boller: 80 completions in 152 attempts for 845 yards and four touchdowns. He threw seven interceptions, fumbled seven times and lost three of the seven fumbles. He averaged 5.56 yards per pass and 141 yards passing per game.

Joe Flacco: 107 completions in 167 attempts for 1,076 yards and two touchdowns. He has thrown seven interceptions, fumbled six times and lost one of the six fumbles. He is averaging 6.44 yards per pass and 179 yards passing per game.

Conclusion: Both players won three of their first six starts. Boller (left) would win two of his next three games to go 5-4 as a starter before getting hurt and missing the next five weeks of the season. The overall numbers, I think, are inconclusive. I'd say they are statistically comparable through their first six starts.

Posted by Peter Schmuck at 9:31 PM | | Comments (31)
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Comments

The only reason I can say this is because I've lived through the K. Boller experience, but I feel a lot better with Flacco behind center. From the few games I've seen, he doesn't get happy feet and I don't hold my breath everytime he drops back in the pocket. Now I was a Boller supporter when many called me crazy, but there's something completely different about Flacco's demeanor that gives me confidence and hope.

Kevin, Iraq

..............................................................................................
Pete's reply: You're right, as usual. He just carries himself like a veteran out there, which is saying quite a lot for a guy with six games of NFL regular season experience.

I wish I had read this before going on my diatribe on "Ravens get it done". However, I think Flacco has shown a greater ability to shake off his mistakes, which will make him a great QB in the long run.

Stats do not tell the story--Flacco has something from teammates that Boller lacked from the beginning--
(except from his fave receiver, Heap)

R-E-S-P-E-C-T

With Flacco, it is a real football game. He improvises, he scrambles, he blocks. Yeah, he has thrown a seven intercepts, but he does it because of a classic rookie mistake--throwing into coverage. Boller's interceptions are mainly because of his double-pumping and telegraphing his throws.

After 5 seasons, Boller showed no improvement. I don't bet, except on $1.00 or $2.00 lottery tickets; but if I was more of a betting man, I would say that in 5 years, Flacco will be along the likes of a very good NFL QB. Not like Favre, not like Brady, but maybe more like Chad Pennington or Hasselback. Not a great one, but better than a journeyman.

Flacco also has something that Boller didn't have.....an offensive line that can block!

This kid looked better in yesterday's game then Kyle looked in any game in his "career". Colts & Ravens fan since '56 so I've seen a few QB's in that time. I think he's going to be a good one.

If you actually believe that Flacco looked better in our game yesterday than Boller in the New England game last year, you are crazy. And I stand by that. Literally insane. Boller may have had happy feet and he might have been injury prone, but the guy was tough, and had he been brought around slowly and with good coaching then I believe we may have seen a completely different Kyle Boller era. The guy has a cannon, throws a beautiful deep ball, and was finally learning touch on his short throws before he injured his shoulder in preseason this year. I wish we could have seen Kyle take this team to the playoffs this year. Especially with as great as this O-line is playing.

P.S big blow by losing Yanda, he was having a great year. Luckily, "Christopher" Chester played great in his stead.

Stats mean absolutley nothing, Flacco has a presence already as a qb that Boller never had the whole time behind center, and I wanted to see Boller succeed, he did not have that intangibles that can not be measured with stats, Flacco has the poise and intangibles That Boller never had!

For the last time can we please stop comparing Flacco to Boller for at least the rest of the year? The problem with Boller was not the way he played his first year. Boller played like a rookie his first year, just as Flacco is. The problem is that Boller continued to be "Boller" pretty much every year and didn't improve as much as he should have. We'll have to wait until Flacco's third year to see how he compares. If his stats are still similar then the comparison can be made.


Ravens fans need to let let Kyle Boller go. He will never play QB for the Ravens again, thank goodness.

Okay Pete, now take a look at Boller's first four starts of his 3rd and 4th years. Was there progress?

The great thing about Flacco is he's progressing.

For all of you who forget about McNair's brief stint, Boller's problem wasn't the line it was him. He holds the ball too long because he's indecisive. McNair got the ball out quick in 2006 and was only sacked 13 times behind the SAME offensive line that boller has had in years past. The guy is incredibly talented but he rushs his throws with pressure.

You summed it up perfectly jeff. Except for the NE game we never saw progress or flashes of greatness. Flacco's completion % is already way better,he has superior talent and intangibles. It's all about getting him WR's. DeCosta said this morning we tried to trade for Roy Williams last week but Det wanted too much and I agree. Eventually though we will have to bite the bullet and trade alot for A Boldin or some other big time WR. Or hope Heward Bey falls to us. Despite hit production at MD he is the most talented WR in this draft.

Boller never had the pass protection Flacco has had this season. Neither QB has/had a quality receiving corps. Even so, Boller improved some each season, and behind a swiss cheese line decimated by injuries last season, completed 61% of his passes, including long passes. In his last 16 games, Boller had five of six games of 100+ QB rating, as Flacco did yesterday. Boller is not nearly as bad as his line made him look.

Pete, it's 3rd and 10, and you have your choice between Boller and Flacco. Who you got?

To me, it's Flacco. And it's not even close. Only 27% of Boller's passes were first downs in 2003, Boller's rookie year. Flacco, on the other hand, has made a first down on 34% of his throws. That margin may not seem statistically significant, but Flacco keeps drives alive. Boller was Mr. Three and Out. (By the way, Flacco's 34% is two percentage points higher than Matt Ryan's, he of the two legitimate WRs (Roddy White and Michael Jenkins)).

I wouldn't make too much of Flacco's interceptions as far as his development goes (they will cost the Ravens wins, however). I think they are much more correctable than accuracy and pocket presence, two attributes that Boller lacked in a big way.

Speaking of pocket presence, I really wish people would quit giving Boller the excuse of having a sorry pass blocking line. If Boller had a brick wall protecting him, he'd find a way to get sacked. He just didn't know how to move in the pocket. In 2005, his adjusted sack rate (pass attempts divided by sacks) was 8%. With pretty much the same exact line in 2006, McNair's adjusted sack rate was 3.5%. A QB has much more to do with sacks than people realize.

I don't mean to bash Boller here. I honestly like him (based on his quotes alone). He constantly took a beating and never threw anyone under the bus. Plus, it's not his fault that he was drafted five rounds too soon. All of us would gladly walk up to the commissioner's podium to be first round picks too. But I bet few of us would handle ourselves with as much grace off the field as Boller has. (Note well: That last sentence doesn't take into account that Boller was an item with Tara Reid.)

..............................................................................................
Pete's reply: If I needed to win one game and both were 100 percent healthy, I'd pick Flacco.

Those stats do point out one large difference between the two QBs: The knock on Boller coming out of college was that he was inaccurate (He only completed better than 50% in his senior year). According to Pete's stats, Boller was completing 53% of his passes. Good for him, but not good for an NFL QB, whose looked to complete at least 60% of his passes. Flacco's percentage during this time . . . 64%. One could argue that a lot of Flacco's passes have been check downs, but as I recall, the same was said about Boller. Ask Mel Kiper who was the better guy coming out of college. What he'll tell you would put this debate to bed. It's definitively Flacco.

think everyone needs to realize that 60% of the defensive plays yesterday the starting defensive backfield was Frank Walker, Corey Ivy/Fabian Washington, Jim Leonhard and Nakamura/Zibowski. Injuries have decmated the secondary. Reed is at half mast playing with a bad neck. (I cringe everytime he makes a tackle)
Chris Mac is hurt and he knows it.

J.R.,

Just a reminder. We are talking about business of the NFL in the 21st century, here. The word "never" means "maybe" - at best.

Here's the comparison I want to see:

Joe Flacco's rookie season vs. Eli Manning's rookie season.

Flacco and Eli seem to have that same Mr. Spock kind of unemotional disposition.

I always wanted Kyle B to succeed. He seems like a really good kid and came from a good family. I just think we all wanted Johnny U. and we all bought the Billick hype. When Joe Flacco got here, we didn't get our hopes up. Plus well all thought he would be carrying a clipboard every Sunday. Now that he has been tossed to the wolves, and has handled it OK. SO LETS GO FLACCO!

Remember how jittery and nervous Boller was in EVERTHING HE DID on and off the field. Flacco believes he belongs in the NFL and seems quietly confident that he can do it. Boller never had that coming in and with a couple of bad games his fans, teamates and coaches did nothing help him believe he .could.

Flacco still lofts the ball too high on his deep balls and he's learning the game. I think we have a keeper.

Randy, it's actually a good time to compare Flacco and Eli Manning; they both have thrown about the same number of passes (Flacco 167, Eli 197):

Eli Manning -- 48% completion; 1,043 yrds; 5.3 per attempt; 6 TDs; 9 INTs

Here's some other rookie numbers:

David Carr -- (444 attempts) 52.5% completions; 2,592 yrds passing; 5.8 per attempt; 9 TDs; 15 INTs

Joey Harrington (429 attempts) 50.1%; 2,294 yrds passing; 12 TDs; 16 INTs

Patrick Ramsey (227 attempts) 51.5%; 1,539 yrds; 6.8 per attempt; 9 TDs; 8 INTs

Byron Leftwich (418 attempts) 57%; 2,819 yrds; 6.7 per attempt; 14 TDs; 16 INTs

Roethlisberger (295 attempts) 66%; 2,621; 8.9 per attempt; 17 TDs; 11 INTs

This is stupid. Let's compare Flacco and Boller. This is such insight on a rookie QB comparison. I said in previous blogs that the two had nearly compatible stats going into week 8. Sorry to get all you Flacco fans in a tizzy...oh how sensitive you are. I will admit, Flacco does have a way different personality which gives an 'appearance' of confidence and the will to 'shake off mistakes'. Problem is, he has shown no different ability 'statistically' than Boller. Now, we can partly blame the offensive genius Billick for the Boller pick gone bad. Maybe better coaching could have prevented Boller from being a bust. He is at best - a backup on a 'non-marquee' team. Now, Flacco needs to turn up the accuracy and the stop with the stupid fumbles and missed opportunities. It is frustrating to see him not pick up on a wide open receiver and decide to throw into double coverage. If the coaching staff does not help him in this development aspect, I would guess he will not the great QB we all hoped for. This is why I don't agree with starting this guy. He needs to get some background under a vet (not Boller). Ughhh....so many people with their lips puckered up and affixed to Flacco's posterior (backside) it is nausiating.

Peter, you said 'if you needed to win one game and both were 100 percent healthy, I'd pick Flacco'....ok....Now look at this as if they were both rookies, and you had both of the stats (from Kyle's rookie year) and from this year with Flacco....the decision is not so clear cut, at least in my opinion. Hind-sight is 20-20.

Posters are complimenting the offensive and rightfully so, but they're better than the Boller era because Boller isn't behind them. The difference between Boller & Flacco is that Boller was so skiddish behind center the line never knew where he was. With Flacco he stays calm and the line knows where he is. Let us remember the Ravens have one of the youngest Olines if not the youngest in the league and Flacco makes them better.

There is no comparison between Flacco and Boller. While both have strong arms, Flacco has innate, instinctive pocket awareness, poise and accuracy that Boller, unfortunately, was not born with! Time to move beyond the Boller "failed" experiment!

Yeah these Boller Flacco comparisons are old, especially when people don't know what they're talking about. Boller had no talent around him except for Ogden, Heap and Jamal, but that's when they were healthy. Boller almost made the playoffs his second year, the Ravens missed the playoffs by one game. Had it not been for the defense giving up about 24 points in the fourth quarter to the Bengals to lose the game, the Ravens would have been in the playoffs. Pete, you should dig up all the game film of Boller hitting receivers in the numbers just so they could drop it. It seems most people don't want to understand that it takes a whole team to win or lose.

The difference between Flacco and Boller are circumstances. We all wanted to see a QB competition for starting QB in both situations. No one felt Kyle outplayed Redman but got handed the starting job and the snow job began on trying to sell us on Kyle being a great future QB. It was clear Flacco did not earn the starting QB job but landed in it due to injuries and illnesses. Some people are born great and some have greatness thrust upon them. The Ravens tried to tell us Kyle was born great but he didn't live up to the billing. Flacco has had greatness thrust upon him and he has responded. That is how you get the respoect of the rest of the team.

Just thought I'd add to your research Pete...

Here are some rookie stats of quarterbacks who ended up GREAT later on in their careers:

John Elways threw just 7 touchdowns and 14 interceptions in his first 11 games..

Steve Young threw just three touchdowns and 8 picks in his first 5 games b4 being sidelined..

Eli Manning threw six touchdowns and 9 interceptions in his first 9 games..(threw 20 picks in SB championship season)

Troy Aikman threw just 9 TDs and 18 picks in his 11 games played as a rookie..(threw 11 TDs and 18 picks da followin season)

So many people are saying that Boller never had the pass protection, but that's because defenses saw that if they shook Boller up with blitzes, he would surely make mistakes and they are right. Whereas when Flacco is pressured, he has shown he can remain poised and complete passes, thereby making defenses respect him.

The kyle boller and flacco comparison can be sumed up like this. Kyle Boller had two left feet, Flacco has a left foot and a right foot.

I'm not ready to jump on the Flacco bandwagon just yet. We've seen a lot of QB's come in here and regress. Is there something about practicing against this defense that retards a QB's development?

I hope he works out. He's certainly easier to listen to than Kyle "let's go ride bikes" Boller. ADD is not a good QB trait!

Oh, and one big difference - Boller had Jamal Lewis tearing the league a new one in 2003.

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Peter Schmuck wants you to know that, contrary to popular belief, he is more than just a bon vivant, raconteur and collector of blousy flowered shirts. He is a semi-respected journalist who has covered virtually every sport -- except luge, of course – and tackled issues that transcend the mere games people play. If that isn’t enough to qualify him to provide witty, wide-ranging commentary on the sports world ... and the rest of the world, for that matter ... he is an avid reader of history, biography and the classics, as well as a charming blowhard who pops off on both sports and politics on WBAL Radio. That means you can expect a little of everything in The Schmuck Stops Here, but the major focus will be keeping you up to the minute on Baltimore’s major sports teams and themes, whether it’s throwing up the Orioles lineup the minute it’s announced or updating you on the latest sprained ankle in Owings Mills. Oh, and by the way, that’s Mr. Schmuck to you.

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