baltimoresun.com

« AFL update | Main | Ravens: Ignore the stats »

October 17, 2008

Seen this before

Let me explain why the Tampa Bay Rays are not going to the World Series, and it's not just some frustrated fan throwing out a fatalistic scenario after a devastating loss. This is a lot of postseason observational experience talking, so listen closely.

I was there in 1986 when the California Angels had 3-1 lead in the ALCS and a three-run lead going into the ninth inning of Game 5 against the Red Sox. They came within a strike of going to the World Series, but the Red Sox came back on a dramatic Dave Henderson home run and the ALCS was over.

It wasn't technically over that day. The Angels were still up three games to two, but the momentum shifted so dramatically that they never recovered. The Red Sox have staged a couple of similar LCS comebacks over the past four years and gone on to win a pair of world titles. They are going to do it again. I hope I'm wrong, but the Rays reached their high-water mark when B.J. Upton hit that two-run double off Jonathan Papelbon to go up 7-0 in the seventh inning last night. The tide shifted on the three-run homer by David Ortiz in the bottom of the inning and there's not going to be any turning back.

The emotional swing reminds me of the Steve Bartman game in 2003 that scuttled the Cubs' best chance in nearly 60 years to reach the World Series. Baseball momentum is a cruel mistress, especially when it comes to teams that are short on postseason experience.

Last year, when the Colorado Rockies were on a historic late-season and postseason roll that included 21 victories in 22 games and seven straight postseason wins, I predicted that once they finally lost, they would not win another game. Their postseason winning streak ended in Game 1 of the World Series and, sure enough, they were never heard from again.

Maybe I just got lucky, but I've watched a lot of postseason baseball and I saw the air come out of the Tampa Bay balloon last night. They were already celebrating the American League pennant in their heads, which is why this loss will take too much out of them to get the job done when they get back to Tropicana Field.

Posted by Peter Schmuck at 6:00 AM | | Comments (37)
Categories: Just baseball
        

Comments

I hope you're wrong, but I commented in your blog after Game 1 that the Sox were getting in playoff mode. I turned the game off at 7-4 last night because if the Sox won, then I didn't want to see it.

saw the gm being interviewed in 6th inning like it was over.very bad karma
good for phillies if it goes 7

.............................................................................................
Pete's reply: That was Chuck Lamar, the former GM who now works for the Phillies, but I get your point.

I hope you are right, but I have an uneasy feeling that it ends with game 6. While I'd like to think Beckett and Ellsbury and Ortiz et al will stage another of their patented comebacks, I sense that like the decrepit Yankee Juggernaut, this Red Sox team just does not have enough left in the tank to see it through two more games, especially facing Shields at home. Then again, I would have bet my house on the '79 O's in the World Series after game 4. Hmmm...

Pete,
I disagree with you on this. Stick a fork in the Sox. They are done. Too much energy is coming from Tampa. I think they are going to bounce back for game 6.

We will know soon enough who is right on this one.

Any update on audio from the roast?


..............................................................................................
Pete's reply: Not yet, but I spent yesterday recovering from the beating so I didn't talk to anybody.

You've been on so many bandwagons of late you should buy youself a hydraulic lift gate to ease your climb back on when you incessantly fall off. That rhetoric is the most BS I've seen in a confined space in a long time and I've been reading your stuff since you came on the scene. Trust me, I know BS when I see it. You've taught me well.

...............................................................................................
Pete's reply: Now, come on. I write a heartfelt entry in the middle of the night that includes some history and some hysteria and this is the thanks I get?

Seriously, Pete? I know that the Red Sox are possibly the most persistent and annoying team in the world, but these Rays are different. Joe Maddon is different. Carl Crawford is different.

You just gotta have faith that the better team will win this series. Sure, it may even go to game 7 now, but the Rays proved earlier this year (that series at Fenway with the comeback win in game 2) that they have the moxie necessary for the postseason.

there was also that series at the Trop when the Red Sox crushed them in the first game with 8 home runs or whatever, but the Rays buckled down and won the next two games.

I drank the kool aid for these guys a long time ago, and I still think they will make it to the world series and beat the Phillies. Don't be so willing to jump off the band wagon (although the Rays might be using a freight train). If they end up not winning, its ok, I'm an O's fan, I'm used to it. But I think they will win.

I love your optimism, Pete. Remember, both last year and '86 they had won Game 5 on the road and then had 6 and 7 at home. Now, they have to go back to the Trop where they have lost 9 of 11 (including playoffs).

.............................................................................................
Pete's reply: Okay, I feel better now.

There was a day when I would hope the Red Sox would win - just somebody other than the yankees --> now they are like the yankees and if possible there fans are worse - when the Rays blew it - choked - gave away that game - the series was over - the last two games are a formality --

You probably haven't been watching the series and maybe you've never been to Fenway. 1.No lead is safe in Fenway. 2. Dice K is the only Sox pitcher that can win. 3.TB always beats the Sawks in TB. 4.Beckett is now a noodle arm. 5.Big Papi is now little Papi. 6.Sheeeets. As Yogi said,"90% is half mental"


..............................................................................................
Pete's reply: You're right. I've only been to about 200 games at Fenway.

No, no, no, say it ain't so, Peter!!! Neither team seems to have much pitching left, so which one has the most of the least? No more Dread Sox, pleazzzzzze!!

Pete,

Your argument is extremely compelling except for one thing. The Rays have yet to follow the script that was laid out for them this post-season. They were supposed to lay down for the White Sox and that did not happen. They were supposed to go into Fenway where they lost their first 7 games this year and get swept out of the ALCS, but that did not happen either.

I think the pitching matchups favor the Red Sox, but Beckett has not been overly impressive this post season, and the Rays don't care about his prior success.

whether it’s throwing up the Orioles lineup the minute it’s announced or updating you on the latest sprained ankle in Owings Mills. Oh, and by the way, that’s Mr. Schmuck to you.

Until you get older than me, you will always just be Peter Schmuck to me.


.............................................................................................
Pete's reply: Congratulations. You're the first person who's ever read my blog bio all the way to the end. I think there's a prize for that.

With Boston as my second team, I hope you're right Pete, but 'm not ready to count the Rays out just yet.
They're going back home for the last two games, and they have shown a lot of fight all season. They want this bad, and they have the talent to do it.
Unless the Sox starters can stop being lit up like so many roman candles, the Rays will be giving the Phillies a chance to lose a WS to every team in the AL east.

Yeah Pete, I think you are right. Im hoping that the Rays can prove us wrong and win it on saturday. Earlier in the year when the Sox were here playing the O's, I told a bunch of annoying sox fans that the Rays would beat them in the playoffs, so when the Sox go to the world series, it's somewhat my fault as i have nothing to heckle about.

I sure hope you are wrong. Familiarity can indeed breed contempt, and where the red sox are concerned, they have eclipsed the yankees as the team I despise the most. I hope the Rays read your blog and get their collective heads thinking annihilation in game six. Hey, you don't think the last eleven years have colored my outlook, do you?


..............................................................................................
Pete's reply: I hope not. Around here, you sound like a cock-eyed optimist.

I agree in general with your premise but that game 6 pitching match-up is a mismatch. Shields will be so tough and Beckett doesn't look healthy. If the Rays lose that one it will be impossible to overcome the heat and Lester in game 7.

This is the test for this talented, young Rays team: Can they shake off what the 2004 Yankees with all their overpaid, postseasoned talent couldn't? They need to win it in game six or I'd bet every last cent of my kids' milk money futures from now until they reach 18 that the Sox are in the Series. If you're a TB fan, it shouldn't matter in the long run, though. The Rays will be playoff contenders for years, and they'll be the team with the scars that get them to the World Series.

As for the Phillies, they'd better take a lesson from the Rockies -- how do you not go stone cold while the other series goes to seven games?

There is nothing but a bunch of crying O's fans on here. I know you all wanna see the cinderella team win, but the Sox have more experience, bottomline. Yeah Beckett's arm is hurting, but don't you think he's gonna go out there in game 6 and give it everything he's got left in it??? The bats have waken up for the Sox and they are hungary, I don't care what the Sox record is at the Trop. I would not wanna be a Rays pitcher in the next game, nor would I want to be a Rays fan. You know they are nervous. So Give Pete a break, he's got an opinion like the rest of us!!

So go on and cheer for dem O's hon', who will have another losing, last place finish next year.

it doesn't matter which of them wins. The Phillies will be world champs anyway. All the experts picked the Dodgers, but the Fightin's handled them pretty easily. It's the Phils all the way this year!

Peter,

I think the Rays will come back and win this in game 6. The fans in Tampa can't wait to celebrate their first World Series birth AT HOME. They will pump the Rays back up. I think you would have been right had game 5 been in Tampa, with games 6 and 7 in Boston. Thankfully that's not the case! Tampa is 9-2 against Boston this year at home (including playoffs).

Prior to Upton's double, Maddon called for an excellent double steal, so that even if Upton didn't produce, 2 runners were in scoring position.

After Upton's double and Pena's walk, he had the opportunity to do the same thing and didn't, watching Longoria hit into a double play. I wondered why he took his foot off the gas,and whether this would haunt the Rays later in the game. What did yo think?


.............................................................................................
Pete's reply: I was way more disturbed by Pena's lousy at-bat in the ninth. First and second and one out. Ahead in the count. Fishes for a pitcher's pitch low and out of the strike zone. Selfish at-bat. He wanted to be the hero, so he wasn't patient at the plate.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Yes...the Devil Rays blew an amazing oportunity to stick it to the defending champs. And, Yes...the Red Sox have come back from things like this before. But...the Devil Rays (I can't call them 'Rays) are a way better team both defensively and offensively in the playoffs. They will bounce back and get a win at home out of the next 2. Why would you think otherwise? Just because you have 'seen this before', does not make it fact. You gotta look a little deeper than just saying that. The Red Sox (in my eyes) are lucky that they pulled Kazmir. I sometimes don't understand when a pitcher has got it going like that, why you pull him for a few mistakes (or pitch count). He would get his rest back if you would have won the game! Anyway...look for the Rays to win this series. Stop the fantasy...please.

If the Rays win it all the AL East have 5 World Series winners, but ALL of them would have gone through the Phillies at least once.

One thing about the '86 Angels - their manager was Gene Mauch, the late great all-timer choker manager. It was just a matter of time with a Mauch-led team, and that team knew it. I don't see that now. I think the Rays win Saturday and I don't want that. The O's haven't had a winning season since the Ray's inception and they (and their front-runner "fans") win a World Series? Nah gimme the Phils over the Bosox any day.


..............................................................................................
Pete's reply: I don't think Mauch was a choker. He got that rep from the '64 season in Philly, but he didn't do anything wrong in either the '82 or '86 Angels seasons. Bad stuff just happened.

Compelling game last night. Tampa is very good in Tampa. Rays' relief pitching was dreadful, but Gabe Gross had terrible game in RF (He should have tried for a catch with two outs in the seventh that would have preserved the shutout, instead allowed the first run, The door was set ajar.) He made a weak throw on the tying run (he had a legitimate shot at throwing out the runner at home.) And he was positioned terribly on Drew's GW hit. (Tough to know where to play him, though, with only one out.)

Upton needed to run down the ball in CF as well. Add Longoria's error and the TB pitching didn't stand a chance, no matter how many runs they were given. Nonetheless, I like the Rays in six.

Pete--Pena bangs two homers tomorrow night and Shields gets the win in a 6-4 Ray victory.

Bartlett makes a sparkling play in the 7th to preserve the win.

look this game was has bad as the mothers day meltdown with perbzo, madden looked like he was froze in time ,not overmanaging ,but not managing period.with ortiz having only one hit against tampas lefthanders in waas a no brainer , but he just watched. at the same time they can beat beckett mainly because he is about 50%

peter boston is definately a powerful team. i just don't see them comming back trailing by 3 games in back to back years. no doubt that would be a tremendous feat for them. if they are able to pull it off.

I forget which guy but he made a comment during the game when Papi was up. Something about Ortiz hasn't hit a HR in over 60 ABs.

Thats is pretty much like saying 'Ortiz is going to hit a HR right now.'


...............................................................................................
Pete's reply: You know, I try not to be superstitious, but whenever an announcer says somebody is 0 for 20 or hasn't done something in a long time -- and it's going to be against the team I'm rooting for -- it always seems to happen.

Let's see. The Sox are giving up an average of 8 runs a game in the last four games, the Rays have an awesome home record, and you think the Sox will pull it out? This reminds me of your Football picks.

..............................................................................................
Pete's reply: What do you mean by that. I'm leading the Sun football pickers by a wide margin.

Wish the Red Sox would win. That way the Phillies can have home field. Maybe see a playoff game. Oh wait! I couldn't afford it anyway.

Can we hire back Gillick for the O's?


...............................................................................................
Pete's reply: The Red Sox would have home-field advantage, since the AL won the All-Star Game.

I don't REALLY care who wins, since my O's are toast, but i think the Rays will recover in thier own yard.
If it goes 7, the sitting will hurt the Phils (see Detroit and Colorado).

What was Maddon doing last night? Why did he lift Kazmer? 2 hitter, no runs a couple of off days? Nothing like throwing old Big Mo back to the other team! Game 6 is the game, whoever wins this game, wins not only the AL but wins it all. I still can't believe the same guy that managed games 1-4 was managing game 5 for Tampa Bay!


..............................................................................................
Pete's reply: I guess he knew something about Kasmir that we didn't.

Pete--I agree with you about the probable effects of the Sox' memorable Game 5 miracle. It's not just the win, but the way they won.

The Rays are downplaying the psychological effects of the devistating loss, talking about their resiliency, but I don't see them hanging on, either. It was just one game, but the momentum shift has to be huge.

In response to Keith Rowe's questioning Maddon's logic in pulling Kazmir, you wrote: "I guess he knew something about Kasmir that we didn't."

Well, that's the only excuse Maddon had, in my book; otherwise, he made an extraordinarily bad, Sam Perlozzo-type decision.that cost his team the game. Maddon is the prohibitive favorite to be named AL Manager of the Year and deservedly so, but barring an injury to Kazmir that's being kept secret, the Game 5 move was horrible managing.

Bruce Jenkins, writing in the San Francisco Chronicle, noted:

"Maddon, like so many managers, forgot to actually watch the game. Kazmir's last inning featured emphatic strikeouts of Kevin Youkilis and Jason Bay. So he stays. No other evidence required ..."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/10/18/SPSM13JTUQ.DTL

What can be said about Kazmir's performance that already hasn't been said? The guy had the Sox' lineup in an absolute chokehold all night and, if anything, looked even stronger in the sixth, going one-two-three with the two big punch outs noted above by Jenkins.

It's a baseball truism that a manager should stay with his starter as long as possible, because in theory even if he's the fifth man in the rotation, he's better than anyone in the bullpen. In Kazmir's case, he's much better than any of their relievers and brought his A-game to the mound.

So, Kazmir should be out there to start the seventh. Maddon should want him out there! Forget the pitch count (it's time for baseball to move past that kind of thinking, except under certain circumstances, such as rehab), the only criterion that amounts to anything in that situation is how the pitcher is doing. That's bottom line.

Using Earl Weaver's book on managing, every out is precious and if Kazmir can even go another two-thirds of an inning without the Bosox scoring, it now becomes 7-0 with only seven outs left for the home team and the task of digging out from such a deficit becomes more difficult. If he can go a little further, getting the first out in the eighth, the chances of the Sox coming back with only five outs left diminishes even more.

And Maddon knew how Kazmir was pitching; what he didn't know was how the 'pen would respond. So, he's really rolling the dice when he pulls a starter who's proven himself, in favor of someone who may or may not have it that night. I can't help but think the Boston hitters were relieved to see Balfour take the mound for the seventh.

A manager should always be looking for the best way to assure success, and in this case the best way was to keep Kazmir out there, Maddon goal was to close out the series right there, so the team could be well rested for the Phillies, but I can't see how releasing that chokehold was the way to go.

Maybe at the Trop I could see it more, but at Fenway?! He's got to know that no lead is safe. How could he forget that? Getting a little ahead of himself, already mentally pencilling in the lineup for the first Series game, and generally disrespecting the home team, their fans and the magic that can happen there?

Perhaps.

And just perhaps it will cost his team a chance to advance.

Switching gears, what chance do you give the Terps today against Wake? Logic says the Deacons, but this is a Friedgen-coached team, so I'm going with Maryland to pull the upset: It's that maddeming consistent inconsistency that is the hallmark of Fridge teams!

...............................................................................................
Pete's reply: I like Maryland today. Wake has some of the same kind of intensity issues, and they already lost to Navy at home. As for Maddon, it's easy to say now that he should have left the guy in, but -- as in the Guthrie game on Mother's Day -- if you're bullpen can't hold a seven-run lead, what the hell difference is it going to make in the long run? He was managing his team the way he has managed it all year and something really fluky happened. If he had managed every day to avoid the once-in-a-year bullpen blowup, he wouldn't be here. Hindsight is great, though, because we're always right.

Re Maddon: Point well taken, still.... LOL

hey schmuch , maddon lost that game , i would had pulled webber in a hart beat after the second hitter and went wjth chad bradford

al engel -- Good point. Where WAS Bradford. (Yeah, I know, Pete, hindsight is...etc., etc. LOL) If Chad's on his game, the best the Sox can hope for is that a grounder finds a hole somewhere. Building a big rally around singles is tough, even for Boston.

Post a comment

Please enter the letter "c" in the field below:
About Peter Schmuck
Peter Schmuck wants you to know that, contrary to popular belief, he is more than just a bon vivant, raconteur and collector of blousy flowered shirts. He is a semi-respected journalist who has covered virtually every sport -- except luge, of course – and tackled issues that transcend the mere games people play. If that isn’t enough to qualify him to provide witty, wide-ranging commentary on the sports world ... and the rest of the world, for that matter ... he is an avid reader of history, biography and the classics, as well as a charming blowhard who pops off on both sports and politics on WBAL Radio. That means you can expect a little of everything in The Schmuck Stops Here, but the major focus will be keeping you up to the minute on Baltimore’s major sports teams and themes, whether it’s throwing up the Orioles lineup the minute it’s announced or updating you on the latest sprained ankle in Owings Mills. Oh, and by the way, that’s Mr. Schmuck to you.

Schmuck column archive

Upload a photo of yourself or a friend wearing the new Peter Schmuck T-shirt, which is on sale at gotschmuck.com
-- ADVERTISEMENT --

Most Recent Comments
Photo galleries

Search our new database for every home run hit hit by the O's and the opposition — home and away — since 1992.

Buy Sports Tickets from the Baltimore Sun Store

Sign up for FREE Orioles alerts
Get free Sun alerts sent to your mobile phone.*
Get free Baltimore Sun mobile alerts
Sign up for Orioles text alerts

Returning user? Update preferences.
Sign up for more Sun text alerts
*Standard message and data rates apply. Click here for Frequently Asked Questions.
Blog updates
Recent updates to baltimoresun.com sports blogs
 Subscribe to this feed
Stay connected