absolutly not, dont touch him with a ten foot pole. He is a selfish baseball player. Why get him when Im sure Jamie Moyer will still be pitching at a reasonable price. Eb best days are behind him and I could care less.

There are obviously two sides to this argument. On the one hand, the Orioles don't seem to have anyone who projects to a first starter, or so everything I keep reading says, so he would certainly help there. On the other hand, do we really need yet another pitcher who's as likely to be on the DL as the active roster at any given point?
I say go for it! If we can get him back with an incentive loaded deal, without taking away from the contract offer to Tex, might as well. You can never have too much pitching, right?

Where do you come up with this stuff Pete? First of all this is Bedard's second major arm issue, he had Tommy John sugery in the minors. His arm might fall off the next time he tries to throw a ball. Second of all he is a miserable human being and not the type of clubhouse personality the Orioles need around developing young players. Pete, I'll bet you are a lot of fun at family reunions. How many riots have you started between your relatives at such events?

I think the Orioles have done little to nothing to get better in the last few years. Signing Bedard back would only mean they are continuing down that road. They stink. I love the Orioles but I can't follow them. Angelos has driven them into the ground.

Want him back? Are you kidding?! He's no longer welcome in my horse[feathers] town. Tell 'em to try Houston. I hear they love wailers and moaners down there (and also baseball malcontents).

Not a freakin chance. We have enough prima donna headcases around here.

I am not for going after Bedard. Rehab is tough and Erik isn't the "work your tail off" type of guy so while he may come back and be close to the Bedard of old, he also might follow the path of his mentor and good buddy Kris Benson and be mediocre at best.

They need to go out and get pitchers for 09, as they will burn through the pen again if they have 4 guys who can't go at least 5 innings (6th is too much to ask for). I know people think the O's will go after one pitcher, but I really think they will not be in FL without 2 SPs to go along with Jeremy and then have Waters, Olson, Liz and Albers do battle for the 4th and 5th spots.

if the price is right, and if there is a good shot he'll be healthy enough to play for some more seasons, then i say go for him.

Bedard is certainly a surly fellow, and his durability and heart are undoubtedly questionable. But the Orioles would have to be crazy not to pick up a pitcher of his caliber provided the terms are favorable.

Well Peter, I'd say if the price is right, go for it. People seem to be saying that 2010 is when the O's should/will be ready to contend. So adding a guy like Bedard would be better than whomever we're throwing out there now.

"Frankly, I don't care for the kid."
That, Pete, is one great line. No sportswriter homerism, no undue sensitivity to the lad's feelings, just an honest response to the persona he displayed in his time here. Bravo, man. You are redefining the meaning of the word "Schmuck."

That would be a great move to make if the opportunity presents itself. Beggers can be choosers and that is the kind of move that can only help and not hurt you.

Personally, I'd cut a deal and sign him. I wager nobody would beef if we signed Manny Ramirez on the cheap, and he's more of a pain in the butt than a carbuncle if he wants to be. As long as he doesn't have any bizzare habits like dog fighting and he gets the job done fine.

And I agree Pete. I don't like his personality much either.

As long as the price is right, why not. The Mariners brought Bedard in to be a #1. He clearly did not want that role so that brings his price way down. He's had enough big league time for us to say that it's 50/50, at best, that he'll ever throw 200 innings in a year. Further bringing down his price. He'll miss most, if not all, of next year, cheapening him still. So to say he has no leverage is about right. We know his talent level and as a lefty, his career could be longer. I think they should at least open the discussions. Why not?

I'd take him in a heart beat, paying whatever for the rehab year, and seeing what he could do for you starting July, Sept.

Think of him as a magnificently talented #4... who'll give ya six innings.

I've got only one problem with this scenario:

Dude gets hurt more than rejects from The Bachlorette. I am not sure I want someone that appears to be as soft as he seems to be, regardless of talent level. I'm not saying kid is soft, I'm just saying it seems like he is.

It'd be akin to having a talent hitter that acts like a child whenever things don't go his way....

w is for "Whatever the warehouse wants will be what we weceive"

At least MacPhail seems to know what he's doing....

Peter, I am like you on this one. I don't like the guy either. He appears to me to not want to pitch at all. He pitches as though he is doing the team a favor. It would be a monumental mistake if the O's brought him back.

I have always liked Bedard as a pitcher. The O's have dealt with his personality before. I think Guthrie and Bedard were a pretty nice 1-2 last year. By 2010 the O's might have a solid rotation if 1 or 2 of the 20-some starters turn out to be solid.

2010 Rotation
Guthrie
Bedard
Patton
Matusz
Tillman

Sure. Why not?

He seemed to antagonize the media guys for being a lousy interview, but I don't seem to recall that he was a problem in the clubhouse.

I don't have anything against Seattle, but that would really add insult to injury if he came back to the O's as a free agent. I wouldn't mind seeing that done to the Yankees or to the Red Sox, but I would feel bad if we did that to Seattle.

I'd take if the price were right. Incentive loaded deal with money kicking in at 25, 50, 100, 150 and 200 innings pitched.

Pass

If he will be healthy and reasonably priced - I say sign him and bring him home.

If the price is right, I say do it. What is there to lose? If he comes cheapish and doesn't perform well, what have we lost? And if he does perform well, we have a top flight pitcher for a good price.

I'd say depends on the contract. I'd go for a 2 year deal with an team option for a third. Money being somewhere around say a million for 2009 (when he likely won't play), 7 million for 2010 and 10 million for the option year. That would give the orioles a decent deal on a pitcher who has had success here, also some protection if he can't rebound to pre-injury form.

At this point, the one thing the Orioles can "afford" to sacrafice is money. If the price isn't outrageous, it's an absolute no-brainer to gamble on Bedard. He had success in Baltimore once before, why not again? Especially if he's motivated to prove the naysayers wrong.

I think that this year proved that you can never have enough good pitching. If he is not too expensive and we don't let him block the way of more promising prospects, why not? I feel the same about Cabrera, though I believe that he is soon to price himself above what is reasonable.

I would rather offer Bedard $5m next year to rehab with the chance to have him once healthy than offer Daniel Cabrera $5k to pitch for us in the future!

I think it's a great idea! Sign him for around $2 million per for 2 years with lots of incentives and a club option for 2010. If he recovers, sign him to the big contract then. If not, the O's haven't lost that much money. As for his likeability, as long as he gets the job done, he can be the biggest a** in baseball (why else would teams have put up w/Barry Bonds for so long).

I think that this year proved that you can never have enough good pitching. If he is not too expensive and we don't let him block the way of more promising prospects, why not? I feel the same about Cabrera, though I believe that he is soon to price himself above what is reasonable.

You never know how well he will recover from a surgery like that. It would have to be a very low salary with plenty of incentives to bring him back. Very unlikely, especially with all of the pitching injuries the Orioles have had.
Bottom line is that sometimes players/agents get too greedy and they get burned. Also the grass isn't always greener on the other side as Bedard and many of us have learned over the years.

I liked Bedard, he was a winner with the Orioles. I think he will be a winner again too. Last year everyone, experts included, said he is one of the best left handers in either league, and that included Santana and C.C. I don't believe he wants to come back here though, I would bet the farm that it will be Toronto where he lands, where he wanted to go all along.

A two year deal, for minimal money and a much improved attitude would be worth the risk on Bedard. Keep in mind there was a stretch last summer where he was arguably the best pitcher in baseball and he is left-handed. Lefthanders are a must for success in the AL East, starters or relievers.

Ryan - You must bathe in kool-aid. Yes, Scott's eval of the O's farm system was wicked, but first get your facts straight and remember there are 29 other teams in baseball. Eleven Orioles leaves only 89 spots for the other 29 teams. That's an average of three players per team.

First, Tampa Bay and the Red Sox had the most prospects in the Top 100 this past year. with seven each. The Orioles were tied for third with five(Patton, Reimold, Weiters, Liz, and Tillman). BTW you left Tillman out of your 11. Minus Liz, that gives us four for next year. I think that it's safe to say that you can add Matusz, Arrieta, and either Hernandez or Bergeson(maybe both) to that list. That's eight. More than anyone had in 2008. I've left out Brandon Snyder and Billy Rowell(still only 19). As for Adams, Gleason, Zagone, and Hoes it's just not their time yet.

I think it would be fantastic, depending on the price which I'm sure, given this past season and now his surgery and rehab, would be very manageable. It would essentlally mean the five Seattle guys were a more than generous gift from the folks in the Pacific Northwest and if healthy, I think we all agree that Bedard has the potential to be a legit ace. It's nothing but upside for us and the only people that wouldn't like it are guys like Schmuck in the press who think Bedard's surly, but the fans don't care if he's unapproachable, just that he strikes guys out. Also, what if he recovers and pitches like he did in '07 or how Seattle expected him to pitch in '08 and we've got him at a bargain price? Like I said, nothing but upside.

If there's one stat in which the Orioles simply must be leading the majors, it's pitchers with serious injuries. I never understood the bad blood with Bedard -- so what if he's a man of few words -- but I don't think the O's are in any position to add yet another torn labrum to their roster. Let's just be happy we hit paydirt when we said goodbye

I would welcome Bedard back but with a smaller paycheck and knowledge that he is just a 5 to 6 inning pitcher who will not tough up for a big game. He will not pitch without his 4 days rest or pitch with any injury at all.

I imagine you don't care for "the kid", I wonder of course how many other 29 year olds you refer to as kid...always found that kinda demeaning myself....

Bedard held you and the rest of the media in disdain so its hardly suprising that you wouldn't want him back. Heck a miffed media was a large part of chasing Murray out of town.....

The Man can pitch when healthy, if the price is reasonable I think its worth a flyer.

i'd take him back.

since when was Bedard termed as a premier pitcher? guys that get injured that much year in and out dont deserve that distinction. sure he pitched amazing at times and made the O's look like geniuses, but he gets injured too much. for him to be good, the deal would have to be incentive laden, like 30 quality starts and you get your paycheck type stuff

No. He's always hurt, never wants to stay in the game long, and his constant whining can't be good for the clubhouse. We did good to be rid of him and I don't want us to pull a repeat of the Ponson debacle and bring him back.
We do need a reliable veteran starter, but the key word is reliable, and Bedard is anything but.

Talk about being stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Our starting pitching situation is so bad that we shouldn't rule anything out, but has it come to this?

Who knows, he pitched a lot better here in his last season than every other starter we've had since (except maybe Guthrie), so if he came back here maybe he'll act a little less "French" given how poorly things worked out for him in Seattle.

On Eric - yeah if the price is right I would take him back - but it would have to be an incentive loaded contract - such as for games he pitches beyond the fifth inning - complete games - innings pitched in a year and a media clause -such as he will communicate with the media. He is a good pitcher and would be worth the risk as you can never have enough pitching - be interesting to see him and moose pitching for us in 2010 - just stoking the fire

I don't care for him either but he has an upside that has to be considered. At the right price I'd take a shot hoping that he could be a three or four in the rotation. He just will not ever be a one or two and cannot be paid as such.

I'll agree with you in that 'I don't care for the kid'. I just don't see it. Didn't care for him all that much as an 'O', and even less now.

I would definitely take him back at a reasonable price. Yeah his attitude was lousy, but it's not like he was Manny on the Sawx. He's still our best homegrown pitcher since Mussina.

Whoever signs Bedard should give him an incentive laden deal in which innings pitched gives him the most money.

Two year deal with a club option:

Year one ('09): $750,000. Maybe some incentives if he gets on the mound before the end of the year.

Year two ('10): $1,000,000 base
+$500,000 for 150 innings
+$500,000 for 180 innings
+$1,000,000 for 200 innings
+$1,000,000 for 15 wins
+$1,000,000 for 18 wins
+$1,500,000 for 20 wins
+$500,000 for 150 strikeouts
+$500,000 for 200 strikeouts
+$500,000 for Top Five in CY
+$2,000,000 for CY

Year three ('11), option year: $7.5 million

So if, in 2010, he tosses 200 innings, wins 18 games, strikes out 200 and finishes in the Top 5 in the CY voting, he gets $6 million bucks. Not a bad deal for him and a great deal for whoever signs him.

a home run!....grand larceny of Seattle's young talent and our ace back when our young talent is ready to compete!

I am amazed at all the suprise those in the media that Bedard is hurt. He never went a full season without being on the DL. He gave the appearance that he only wanted to pitch 6 or 7 innings. Nothing in his history said he was a workhorse innings eating #1 ace pitcher.
If he wants to come back here as long as he doesn't get a long term contract and has an incentive loaded contract fine. I don't consider him a "premier starting pitcher" and don't think he should be paid like one either. He should only be brought back in a "nothing to loose" kind of situation.

Do you not "care for the kid" as a person -- or as a pitcher? 'Cos as a pitcher, the only time I remembered the Orioles being able to compete was when Bedard was on the mound.

no no No NO NOOO!!!!!

When he's hot, there's no doubt he can pitch. But it seems that the Orioles' clubhouse atmosphere drastically improved this year, while the M's mojo drastically deteriorated. I am guessing that though he's not the sole reason for both of these occurring, it is also not a coincidence.

I can't see the Orioles paying him to rehab unless they got a real nice price on it and a good deal on the next couple years after that. There are no guarantees about how he recuperates following surgery. Before he got hurt, he had top of the rotation stuff. Now, he has to show he still has it. I'd be more inclined to take that chance if I had lots of money and patience and didn't feel the need for a starting pitcher until 2010. Maybe one of the cash-rich teams like Boston or Anaheim could afford to take a flyer on him. For the Orioles, it's hard to have the patience since the rotation is likely to be very tenous at best next year. Some people may say that's all the more reason to take a chance, but I say that's all the more reason not to be thinking things are going to be getting better as soon as this guy gets rehabbed.

But I'd listen to his agent to hear what they had to say they were looking for. A two year contract with team option for a third year at a bargain rate plus incentives might be worth the gamble. Not sure Bedard would feel that way, and that might not be his best offer.

Hey, why not?

The more jacked up labrums, the merrier.

Yeah sign him to be number 2 in the rotation and then sign Kris Benson for the number 3 spot.

That is the kind of thing the Yankees do because they have the $$ to do it. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Who knows what kind of pitcher he will be after surgery? I guess at a reasonable price it would be a good gamble.

That's an intriguing scenario. My question would be if they did bring Bedard back, would that preclude them from going out and signing an A.J. Burnett? That would be a lot of money to spend on two pitchers, knowing that one of them may not pitch until 2010.

On the other hand, this organization still badly needs to stockpile arms, and there are few better arms than a healthy Bedard, even if he does have the personality of a geranium.

I say bring him here if he wants to come back, sign Burnett, and non-tender DCab to save bucks. Compared to what we have now, a 2010 rotation of Guthrie, Burnett, Bedard, Matusz, and maybe Patton or Tillman looks like the '71 O's.

I certainly would not mind if he came cheap. An injured Bedard is better than a healthy Cabrera, Bass, Olson, Liz (most of the time), etc. This guy just might have some sort of anxiety disorder, and frankly he would probably be most comfortable pitching in Baltimore. Let's get him for the minimum though, nothing more or nothing less :)

Might be worth a shot if the price is right, although pitchers who don't have a lot of competitive instinct rarely come back strong from injuries. Actually I was thinking along the same lines re: Carl Pavano before he exited in the fifth inning recently.

No way! We don't need a player with his attitude to poison the chemistry of the whole team. It's not worth it, in more ways than one.

I've certainly joined those who've complained about Bedard for various reasons, but I think you absolutely have to consider bringing him back on a low-risk move. At least he's proven he can get people out when he's out there, something that only one other member of our atrocious starting rotation can say.

I'm one of the few here that liked Bedard but whether we re-sign him or not shouldn't be based on sentiment or if he's likeable.etc. Medically, he's too much of a risk, we already have a bunch of injured ptichers and Bedard may well end up like Loewen so I'd pass.
I wish him well in his recovery and hope he is able to pitch like he did with us sometime in the future.

Don't get stuck on stupid Pete..... If the price is right and he passes his physical... go for it. He's better than anything we currently have.

Sign him to an incentive-laden contract so if he performs to 2007 stats he will be paid well. Otherwise, let some other team take a guaranteed risk. We're the beggars in the starting pitching market, so run him up the flagpole and see what happens. It can't be worse than this September collapse, can it?

You definitely bring him back at the right price if you can. Arms like that are hard to find. His rehab might be 50-50 but thats a gamble that could pay off HUGE. Remember buy low, sell high? Well, in this case it's reversed. We sold high, now get him back while the price is low.

I don't care if he hates every reporter on the planet. No offense Pete, but his job is baseball, not interviews. And if he only goes 6 innings every start that would be how much better than the last few months?

This is a no brainer.

re Bedard--I don't like the kid much, either-but i guess i'd take him back at a good discount. By 2010, we may not need him so much. How about this:
Guthrie
Matusz
Tillman
Arrietta
Patton
Comments?

Congrats Peter - you hit on a subject everyone - and I mean everyone - had an opinion on...

..............................................................................................
Pete's reply: You're right. Erik has that effect on people.

This topic got me to thinking: Who are the best former Orioles Pitchers still on MLB 40 man rosters? Obviously Moose and Moyer, and maybe John Maine, but who else?
By the way - what is a labrum? Do they come in pairs like other body parts? Do I have one?

...............................................................................................
Pete's reply: You actually have two of them. It's the cartilage that forms the lip of the shoulder socket.

Hip pain sent him to the disabled list in April, though just before that, he first felt pain in his shoulder. He's due to undergo surgery Sept. 26.

"The start after I hurt my hip, I felt discomfort in the last inning I pitched," Bedard said. "I know exactly when I did it. After that it got worse and worse"

Bedard last started for the Mariners on July 4, at which point he was 6-4 with a 3.67 ERA in 15 starts -- not bad, but not the performance either player or team had hoped for after Seattle dealt five players to Baltimore to obtain the hard-throwing left-hander with the nasty curve.

"I didn't say anything (at the time)," Bedard said, and "like everybody else in the game, I stopped pitching when I couldn't handle the pain. After my last start, I couldn't lift my arm."

After pitching in what seems to have been a controlled level of pain through June, he threw five innings, allowing one run and getting the win against Detroit at Safeco Field on July 4. On July 22, he had an MRI exam on his left shoulder. Seattle PI

These are big ifs given the seriousness of the injury, but If he can recover from it, and If he regains a semblance of the form that made him one of the best, I would take him back in a heartbeat. Absolutely. An injured Bedard - pitching in severe pain from tears in his hip and shoulder since the very beginning of the season - managed to do better than everyone in the O's 2008 rotation (except maybe Guthrie). If he can bounce back from this no doubt he is better than anyone that took part in the O’s parade of pitching ineptitude this season.

Are you kidding? I would rather have Glenn Davis pitch than Bedard. By the way, is MacPhail's photo still on wanted posters in the Seattle post office? That will go down as one of the greatest trades for the Orioles of all time. Not as big as the Frank Robinson trade, but definitely one of the best. Maybe Seattle will be willing to unload their best talent in the offseason in exchange for Daniel Cabrera. We can even throw in Danys Baez and Steve Trachsel.

Liked the comment about the jacked up labrums.
I say a try a contract with no base salary - only incentives paid for games in which he completes 7+ innings. We may get him for free.

And the answer is .... No. A few months ago, I believe I said, yes, for a bargain price, but the more I think about it, no, he would just fill roster space. The O's need to go out and get a free agent #1 (and maybe a #2) pitcher. I think the hitting is enough, They need pitching foremost.

When Erik's healthy, he's a great pitcher. Unlike Seattle, we know what we're getting. We know he won't make 30 starts a year, he won't play nice with the press, and he's not a rah-rah guy. But when he's healthy, he's lethal. Sign him to an incentive-laden deal and let's see if he can get healthy.

Perspective folks. Good business people always pickup promising assets at cheap assets. Teams will be shying away from him because in his one chance--remember, folks were leery about him last season because of his injury history--he couldn't put it together and couldn't stay healthy. Few teams will be willing to pay him anything since he'll be out most of the season. Give him a two year contract with a vesting option based on number of starts in '10 and incentives based on quality starts and ERA, put him back on the shelf for '09 and see what he gives you in '10. If he's the Erik of '07, you'd be crazy not to have him back. Who cares about his attitude towards the press. None of his teammates had anything bad to say about the guy, it's only the press that griped ablut him because he doesn't like to talk to them.

Criminy, you guys are talking about Bedard like he's Jack the Ripper or something. He was quiet and disliked being surrounded by a lot of hoopla, but he had a sense of humor and seemed to be liked by his teammates. I don't know enough about the arm issue to say whether or not such a move would work, but I do remember very well a guy who could do some serious pitching.

If the O's want two reliable stop gap pitchers for a year or two why not go afte Moyer and MUSSINA. Moyer' arm seems like it can go til death and
Mussina was the only bright spot for the Yanks. How bout that Pete.

..............................................................................................
Pete's reply: I'd take them on short contracts, but don't think either of them is interested in coming here. Both are looking to win something at the end of their careers.

Sign him! There were no complaints about him from his teammates while he was here and he was absolutely dominating when he was healthy. Little risk, big reward. Hell, we could probably sign him for less than Daniel Cabrera. Duh!

The media may not like him but he is a solid pitcher when healthy. I'd take him back and most certainly would not want to see him with another AL East team like the Red Sox or Yankees. It been bad enough seeing ole Ponson with the Yanks.

Of course you take him back. If they could work out some kind of deal so that Bedard doesn't re-establish his value and then bolt, I don't know how you pass it up. Best trade ever if he ends up back on the O's and competes for another Cy Young award. Best Ever.

Who are these 'orioles' you speak of? Is there some other sports team in town? really?

No thank you...nothing to see here lets all move along.