ESPN's Jayson Stark is reporting that the O's once envisioned flipping Sherrill at the deadline. Now that they're fighting to stay above .500 they are more inclined to keep him. Hmmm......how does someone blowing 4 of his last 5 save chances INCREASE the probability of reaching that goal? Yes i know nobody else is better but I for one am excited to shell out $7 million + per year for a closer who had 2 good months.

Roch,

Dan Connelly's article this morning says Guthrie is tied for the league lead in "quality starts." How is that measured?

I believe that is what has made the recent set of losses more difficult to swallow. Four one-run losses in a row. And so many blown chances in the last 10 -15 days.

I believe Trembley managed his pitchers correctly last night. Your starter has given you a quality start and thrown 100 pitches. Perfect situation to bring in your setup guy followed by your closer. Last night you just had two of your three pitchers who did not do their job.

I know a few people have gotten all over Trembley for removing Guthrie, and I do not have the benefit of watching the games on TV here so I cannot really say how well Guthrie looked. But if Guthrie gives up the runs in the 8th inning, then those same people would be screaming about how come with did not have Johnson in the game.

Not the first time the team has lost 5 in a row this season and not the first time we have been below .500. We have managed to get back over .500 each time, so I will hold out that maybe there is a chance.

Finally, it does let us keep perspective that this should be a rebuilding year...though I would still lave to finish with 81-84 wins. The biggest disappointment is the deflated value some of our 'tradable' pieces might have now.

If my memory serves me well, one of Earl's rationales for going off on the ump was to take some af the pressure and attention off of the team when they were struggling. Trembley take heed.
My prediction was 71-91 . I am hoping to be a little worng , but not a lot because a .500 season can bring on managerial complacency. In the past 5 years , there are two good examples of this . One is Toronto, who 3 or 4 years ago hit 500 unexpectedly. JP Ricciardi felt that a couple of free agent additions would suffice and thye backtracked. Seattle this last season, ditto.

It takes several years of aggressively stocking up the youth in the minor league system and this is year one.

I was on the road and missed the game last night. I am thankful for that as is my family.

JP flies Airtran? Wow, this is a tough economy!
Here's to hoping we can still sell George Sherrill at the deadline using the following pitch: "well, he couldn't cut it as a closer but he'd be the best left-handed set-up man in the league."

Alan in VA --

I'm not saying that Johnson WILL definitely start to run into some tough luck; I'm just saying that he COULD. Since you brought up pitchers with sinkers, I looked at some pitchers with the best sinkers in the game. I probably left some guys out, but here are their BABIP numbers:

Brandon Webb -- .177
Derek Lowe -- .329
Chien-Ming Wang (injured) -- .238
Fausto Carmona (injured) -- .250
Aaron Cook -- .225
Tim Hudson -- .281
Roy Halladay -- .292
Jake Westbrook (injured) -- .267
Shaun Marcum -- .197
Dan Haren -- .221
Jon Garland -- .323

Jim Johnson -- .111

Now, granted, the rest of this list includes starters, but that's basically what Johnson is too until he was moved to the bullpen this year and pitched so effectively from day one.

All of the pitchers except for Lowe are below the MLB average, which is around .300, so you are right in that regard. But Johnson is still way below the rest, so it's still interesting to look at.

I'm not really a huge stats guy, but I think it's still important to look at the stats every now and then, especially when someone is pitching as well as Johnson has this year. I hope he keeps pitching so well out of the bullpen because the O's are going to need it.

To know that 51 of the 90 games have been decided by two runs or fewer (while frustrating when faced with losses... especially when they equal a pretty decent losing streak) is actually a positive sign of progress. A large part of our current (and pre-injury) pitching staff is comprised of guys who are going through first trial in the majors/new role and there are side effects that we all knew were likely to happen from time to time because of "going with youth".

It stings big time to get swept by the Jays when there were two games that SHOULD have been our wins without a doubt and another that should have been forced into extra innings, but that's the breaks. I get frustrated and disappointed after a loss too, but then I remind myself that being only two games under .500 in the second week of July is still a great improvement over where we were this time LAST season...at least we're IN every game this season.

I honestly believe, however, that this is just a rough patch and not the beginning of the "second half swoon" that I know so many of us have come to fear. This team has played better and with more heart than anyone expected coming into this season...for that reason alone we should try to fight the urge to panic and jump into bitter-disappointment mode just yet.

Okay, I'm done with the inspirational schpeel now. ;o)

And out of those 51 games how many did we give away like last night. If you look at our offensive numbers you will see that we have more guys hitting 12 or more home runs then most teams, you will see that we have 6 guys with more then 40 rbi's with 2 of them in the 50's,Those numbers stack up against any club in the majors as a team. we don't have 1 big star that has 25 homeruns or 80 rbi's by now but we have been putting up some good offensive numbers. With that said even with some of the defensive and base running laspes that this team has had., the major downfall of this team will be pitching and it will always be pitching until we get some new guys here.One of the articles cracked me up this morning, young pitchers going through growing pains. When on earth is this team going to stop refering to daniel as still having growing pains. He has bee a starter on this team for 4 years and has logged in more then enough starts to realize that he will never be a consistent winner in this league. Burres and olson are only here bcause we don't have any and i mean any alternative .Roch pitching will keep this team buried in quicksand for years way beyond 2010 You just can't over nite get a completley new pitching staff. Outside of guthrie and johnson that is what you will have to do. Albers will be lost to this team all next year. Bradford and walker and sherrill will be long gone. Where do you find these guys. And if you are filling the fans of this town with dreams that tillman, jake, burgeson,and the many many other future Cy young pitchers in double AA ball are going to turn this team around then this is just another wonderful bill of goods that they have sold to the fans of this town. like in the past.

I'm sorry to say that I will not be watching any of the Boston games this weekend. I need a break from this team. I love the O's but Trembley is slowly inching his way on my "Hate List."

Who gives a crap if Guthrie has thrown 100+ pitches? He's still getting people out. He has a 1, 2, 3 inning and he's done? So here's a great idea, let's hand it over to our bullpen who are overused, and then to our closer who will never be able to hold a 1 run lead. Stupid.

Dear Trembley, if your starters are pitching well past 100 pitches, leave them in. They'll let you know when they can't pitch anymore. GOD!

Thank God, I'm leaving for the beach. I can't force myself to watch this team. Actually wait, forgive me. I give major props to Guthrie and the rest of the players putting up runs. Our offense has been outstanding and we've had pretty good defense. Our bullpen needs to be smacked.

There! I am done now!

This is for all the fans who disagreed with my opinion that trading Sherrill and anyone else who will bring some value. WE ARE NOT A VERY GOOD TEAM YET! Lets stick with the rebuild and become a good team. Why a mediocre team (I do really like this team's guts) needs to keep a closer who will not be our closer when the rebuild is finished is a mystery to me. I would trade Markakis if it brought us back an incredible enough return (obviously it would have to be an amazingly crazy offer). My point is that we are improved and we are heading the right way but lets finish the job. You don't start building a house and after getting it framed out think it looks good enough and just move in. We have done the job half a** for a decade or more so lets do it all the way for once.

last night's lose was bad and I think it's the final sign that we are in a typical Orioles summer slump. I agree with the guy who said Johnson needs to be shutdown until after the all-star break. I don't know, maybe it's just that the rest of the league has figured him out, but it looks to me like his fastball has lost some of the late movement it had earlier in the year. He needs to get some side work with Kranitz to figure out what's the difference between now and the beginning of the year.

At least Wieters continues to be a monster for Bowie. He hit another homer yesterday and his average is up to .360. I know that we don't want to rush this guy, but it has to be really tempting to bring him up and stick him at 3 between Markakis and Huff. I wonder how long it will take AA pitchers to just start walking him like they did in the Carolina league. At least he will be the #1 prospect in baseball heading into next year if he stays in the minors.

And something I've been wanting to say for a while now... to all the people who called me (and people like me) less of an O's fan because we desperately wanted the FO to sign Wieters at all cost; now do you see why it was so important to sign this guy? We will not be able to sign Teixera and our offer will fall millions and millions short, but the difference between signing Wieters and not signing him was only 3 or 4 million. So we would lose this incredible talent for only a few million. We invest millions every year on guys like Baez, Payton, Gibbons and Mora... proven major league no-bodies. Instead, we should invest in draft picks, even if we have to over spend, it's still cheaper than grabbing free-agents with a much higher potential for return.

You know Roch, just a few weeks ago on here and a few other spots, I said something along the lines of "Sherrill walks a fine line... and as good as he's been, we're really only 6-7 pitches being hits instead of outs from calling him another bad O's closer..."

I think we're almost there. We loved that he played with fire... but few stopped to think that eventually we would get burned by it. Now we are. The Sherrill is God talk was missing how close he was to being just an average stinky reliever...

Roch--If Palmer were in his prime, pitching now for the Baltimore Orioles, how many complete games do you think he would get?

Would he have a manager that would say the hell with that stiff neck, get out there and pitch, we need you?

Don't be fooled Roch, it's called botox & hair dye....

You finally got a gig other than Tampa? Your stock must be rising. :-)
Remember, now you are in Beantown, you can ask more detailed questions, be more abrasive, touch on more topics, in their clubhouse that is...

Thank goodness Palmer is heading to Boston. I don't think I could watch three more games with Hunter and Dempsey in the booth (although a nice side benefit is having Billy Rip as an in-studio analyst).

I didn't see every AB of the 8th & 9th, but when I did look up at the game, I saw lots of breaking balls , hanging ones in the middle of the plate, from Sherrill. What happened to "going primarily with the fastball"? That hit by Rolen was not exactly smoked either, in Sherrill's defense, that one was a looper that was lucky to stay fair.
Let's see what happens in Boston before we start screaming to break up the party, this team has battled & played to their best so far if you ask me. They deserve a little faith based on their hustle & fight to date. To be honest, the All Star break could not be coming at a better time for the team.

I am fed up.1-These young pitchers better start developing some cahones and throw the ball-they are choking everytime a good hitter gets in the on deck circle-they walk a punch and judy hitter and lose control 2-what the hell is Ramone h. doing jumping afoot and a half outside the plate to give a target while the pitchers are winding up?the ball also goes 1 1/2 ft out.try easing over a bit and frame a pitch like our opponents catcher!
Dave T-Please show some concern for the players and raise a little hell on bad ,bad calls. you are so passive all the calls will go against you!

I dont think i have ever seen a bullpen pull a 360 like the O's have this year. These last 2+ weeks have been horrendous and it doesnt look like it will get any better in the 2nd half. Dont know how the team can maintain any type of confidence if they keep losing games like this.

I guess alot of the Vets are going to get shopped around, but hopefully they keep BRob and Huff. I think our OF is solid with Scott, Jones and Markakis.

Other than the obvious problems with inadequate defense and crucial mental errors, Tremley has become a creature of habit. For a majority of this season, if the SP floundered at all he could yank them knowing that the pen would lock the game down. That strategy worked so well that he is hesitant to give up on it.

This pen has been overused, over exposed and totally worn out. It’s time he realizes this and reverses his strategy. He has to stay with the starters and push them to their limit.

It’s a damn good thing that Frank Robinson and his “kangaroo court” doesn’t preside over this clubhouse. There would be some ballplayers needing off-season jobs.

Another thing that irritates me-Pulling a pitcher after 7 innings when he is going so well-our best pitcher,in fact. This is mid season for heavans sake-we need some complete games. That includes the minors -we are babying our young ones and asking them to go 5-6 innings-come on ,we're paying a lot of money and expecting very little in return,Throw some innings!thats how you gain strength and control and endurance..Geesh,Burres looks like a strong breeze will knock him over! let's get these guys in shape-running and throwing

I am not giving up on this team. I haven't given up on them for the past 10 years and I won't now. I will still follow them no matter how bad the record or how many 30-3 games I must endure. These are things that I tell myself after 4 consecutive 1 run losses.
We are in a "rebuilding" mode. Unfortunately, for the most part, we played above our heads. It gave "us" the fans a false sense of hope. I don't think we will lose 100, but we aren't gonna win 80 either. Trades should and need to happen. Roberts won't go anywhere, no one will give us what we want. Payton, could fit for some, though doubtful. Huff, maybe, but what do you get for him? Mora, I wish, but no one is looking for a 36 yr cry baby. Any ideas for trades?? Anyone?

"s" is for a "super" 1/2 to the first 1/2

I hope people will be kind to George Sherrill. He has given us an exciting first half. Hopefully, his latest performances have not ruined his all-star experience.

We're going to Saturday's game. Maybe we'll see you. We're about 6 rows above the Bird's dugout.

I've been to 6 RS-O's games and with exception to the 1st (8/11/06), the O's won every game I've attended. I hope I'm good luck because I really want to see the Birds destroy the Red Sox, take the series.

Don't be a fair weather fan, Jennifer. You're better than that...

And there's nothing wrong with Trembley going to Johnson/Sherrill in the 8th and 9th. Sure, Guth had another great start and deserves better. But Johnson and Sherrill have earned to be in the games in those spots.

For those who say that had Guthrie stayed in and given up runs we would be bitching that he should have been taken out, I say you're wrong. Did you see Guthrie in the 7th? Obviously not. The guy may be the most well-conditioned athlete on the team and pitched his best inning in the 7th. He had given up four hits and one walk. How do you not give the guy the chance to start the next inning and continue to dominate? Sure, you figure Johnson and Sherrill are going to be reliable, but they could not be any more effective than Guthrie was being. That is the fallacy in the blueprint. Why not spare Johnson an outing if you can get another inning out of Guthrie? Why not spare both relievers an outing if Guthrie can finish the game? Why not spare us all by not blowing another one?

Until I hear Guthrie say that he told Trembley he didn't have enough left to continue, I am quite comfortable pinning last night's loss on the skipper (with obvious assists from the pen).

Roch,

What's the deal with our first round pick, Matusz?? Any progress on signing this guy and getting him started in Rookie ball?

WINNING TEAM BASEBALL

POSITIVE VIBES

Jennifer you have never been more right!!!

What happened to the day when a starter had 38 starts and 28 complete games, ok I am dating myself!

Athletes have got to be in better shape than they were then with all of the technology/science, but can't manage to throw much more than 100 pitches???

Eric - Who is paying Sherrill $7 mil+ a year? Who is to say that he will remain a closer next year? The Orioles have rights to him thru 2010, which makes AM inclusion of him in the Bedard deal even better.

I would agree that JJ has lost some late movement on his fastball. Probably, due to overuse and a loss of confidence recently.

BC Mike - Good point about Weaver. I haven't seen much of the last two games, but on Tuesday you could see the fear/stress on his face. Not good for his players. They pick up on it. When Sarfate was removed they zoomed in on him rubbing his face and head with both hands. Very stressed. This team is tight and it moght not hurt for someone to just go off to break the tension.

Barry - Can guarantee this. If Weaver would have tried to take Palmer out after a performance like Guthrie had last night, the two of them would have been rolling around on the dugout floor, something like Cal and the one-legged guy in Giant.

Ray- George Sherrill is 30 years old. He's a free agent after this year and isn't going to be cheap to sign judging by the big salaries 6th inning guys are commanding on the open market.

Lots of people are pointing out Guthrie's great 7th inning. He rolled through the first three innings, then slowed considerably. More hard hit balls, more pitches thrown. Did it occur to anyone that Trembley may have told Guthrie the 7th would be his last inning - get me one more good inning, I'll hand the ball over to the best of our bullpen, and they'll take it from there? Pointing out how the 7th was arguably his best inning is very consistent with this argument. How would you have managed the game had it been a playoff series? I'm guessing you'd have gone to the stalwarts of the bullpen after the 7th inning, because it's a must win game. For an overachieving team in the midst of its toughest stretch all year, you might manage the game the same way.

As for babying minor league pitchers, if they all blew out their arms everyone would be complaining about that. There would be screaming about the demonstrated dangers of pushing young arms beyond 100 pitches. The minor league pitchers need to learn how to THROW STRIKES. Pitch efficiently, get your 7+ innings, keep your pitch count down. Everyone's happy.

For all the fair weather fans who lauded Georgie when he was racking up the saves, but are now giving him the dagger in the back treatment, I encourage you to step back and look at the big picture.

This business about him only being 6-7 hits away from being a sub-average closer is silly, because he's also had some balls hit against hm that were close to being outs, as well. Those might have put him ahead of K-Rod. So what, it's all speculation.

George Sherrill has recorded 27 saves this season and is representing the Orioles next week in New York. He is a very deserving All Star from this team, though not the only one (Huff, Roberts, Johnson and Markakis all belong, as well--Guthrie, too, had he gotten any decent support).

Yes, Sherrill has struggled of late, but it's important to note that this year he's already logged 39.1 IP in half a season. That may not sound like much, but consider that the most he's ever pitched prior to 2008 had been 45.1 IP for all of last year, and it's been since 2004 in Tacoma that he's pitched as many as 50 innings, so it's not unreasonable to think he may have a tired arm.

I'm not using that as an excuse, and I doubt that George would, either, but there could be some strain in that left arm of his. All I'm saying is not to give up on him so fast. As well as he's pitched for the O's most of this year he certainly deserves far better treatment from the fans than some of what I'm reading. Had it not been for George Sherrill's closes--some in very tight situations (some inherited, some his own)--the Orioles wouldn't be within sniffing distance of .500.

Thanks for the saves AND excitement (lol), Flat Breezy! Enjoy the All Star Game; you earned it. Some may have deserted you, but for me there was "Never a doubt, Georgie, never a doubt."

b is for bill of the O's cap flipped up

"I dont think i have ever seen a bullpen pull a 360 like the O's have this year."

How about last year?

In May one of the top stories was the O's with thier revamped bullpen playing above expectations and hanging tough with the Yankees and Red Sox. Then the bullpen fell apart. Same exact story.

caprimode... not being a fairweather fan.....
I just need a break. It's like being in a relationship. They start to get on your nerves so you need to just have some alone time and not deal with them. So I am on a break with the O's for the weekend. Take that time to hang out at the beach with my friends and just not think about them. I love them too much to walk away, but I will back in a couple days.

Sorry but if I don't take a breather, I might break up with them. : (

For the love of God, why can't we find dominating pitchers? Do we always have to settle for second-rate and third-rate pitchers? I can say the same about our offense, except for Brian Roberts, Adam Jones, and Nick Markakis.

Was that Norm and Cliff behind the plate last night? Looks like Cliff is using Palmer's hair dye if it was!