Roch, You sound like you need a new job. The O's have made us all feel that way. It is enough to drive you crazy with unkown and off the wall remarks and comments by even the most knowledgable of sports people. I guess there is no sense in even believing a word anyone writes unless it is something like this blog today..just throwing out your thoughts...and feelings...until the reports are 100% confirmed by the teams involved it is nothing but pure bullcrap for something to write since most other baseball news is stale except a free agent signing here and there or a conclusion of the Santana trade and sign.

Bedard being traded seems to be a done deal, too bad I say. I understand why, but I think it will have a greater affect on the overall staff than people realize. I would feel much better about that trade if they were getting Trunfel, that young SS of theirs instead of Tillman or Butler. Jones, Sherrill, the other pitcher (the name escapes me now) , plus Trunfel is a better package for the O's needs. It's still a slight gamble, but they have painted themselves into a corner now.
I am totally against Roberts being dealt for the second tier Cubs prospects mentioned. Gallagher might not even make this staff in a year or two based on who is coming up & who is here now, so he is not so useful to be frank. I agree with Roch, keep him, more holes created by his being gone are the last thing they need. Maybe deal him at the trade deadline if they are sure he can't be resigned. Someone will want him for a pennant push & they can get better than the Cubs standing offer.

What do people think of a Roberts-Josh Vitters deal. Either straight up or involve a low prospect from the Cubs. He's ranked 16th on the prospect list, and we are going to need a good 3B soon. Mora and Scott Moore won't cut it.

Plus, it will give the O's even more financial stability to go after Texiera, a new 2B or SS, since I think Luis Hernandez could play either one, and a good starting pitcher come next offseason. MacPhail is showing that he can wheel and deal, and I'd like for him to continue.

Don't get me wrong, I like Roberts, but we need to clean house. Once they get a good youth movement going, they need to cut it off with some of those vets, like Huff, Gibbons...you know the rest. Keep Bradford, Walker and Baez, because you need some sort of veteran presence to keep the kiddos in line, regardless of how bad they are.

I think that Markakis and Mora will be good influences for the new players this year, because they want to win, but those other guys, I think they just want to receive a paycheck.

I think as things calm down and if this trade happens, there should be a lot of happy people. The Orioles will be following a solid path of rebuilding and should have a lot of competition in the high minor leagues. Recently prospects have been coming up looking rattled and overwhelmed. That should improve. We will be able to be patient and focus on instruction at all levels. We could have a dynamic outfield for another 10 years. We have to be patient for one more year to rid ourselves of the silly contracts to mediocre aging players. I can do a year--I've already done a decade of this nonsense. Face it--no value is to be had for Huff, Payton, Gibbons, Millar, and Mora. Enjoy the 2008 Farewell Tour!

100% agree with CRB's plea to the FO to get Markakis locked up for the next 5-6 years bare minimum. What about his career does not indicate sustained success? No reason to let him price himself out of town. Another couple of 125 RBI seasons might just do that. Anyway--how about an announcement today? My work productivity is suffering during this Bedard ordeal. I keep having to stay late (and it is definitely my fault).

I'd like Truinfel as well Brian, but I'm pretty sure the M's regard him as untouchable. Thanks for the updates Roch, hopefully this thing goes through soon--very good deal if I do say so myself (great compared to the return in the Santana trade!).

Olney's story has The Peter's trail all over it like the residue a snail leaves on a window.
Of course there's no rule that talking to a reporter makes a deal finalized. That's absurd.
But it's exactly the kind of hyper-legal, bureaucratic nonsense that The Peter makes his money on. That approach works great in court. If the Orioles could only sue the Yankees and Red Sox, rather than play them, we'd win the pennant every year. At least on appeal.

Yours is not the not the head that's been spinning, at least not this past week. I myself have felt a little like Alice these last couple of days.

You're doing a good job, Roch. Keep it up!

Vitters for 3B in the future? Chuck, you seem to be forgetting Billy Rowell.

Roch

Just and observation.

All this attention paid to Bedard and Roberts, what are the O's going to do with Mora, Gibbons, Payton, Huff, Hernandez... These were prime examples of the reasons for the lack of success. Carrying these will diminish the playing time and learning curve for the young players. Seems a good idea to eat salaries and get it over with. Time to revamp.

Maybe we will be surprised lke with the Hank Bauer Kiddie Corp and the almost year . Good thing can happen with youth. We know what will happen with disgruntled and aged players that do not want to be here.

I am also in the camp Roberts may be a keeper inspite of cost for new young talent.

Please notice I eliminated Millar. He has the attitude and desire to play. He could be an add influenc for th young.

why does everybody want to get rid of huff? his lifetime numbers as a hitter are better than tori hunter"s and he is a year younger. i say keep him. he can dh or play first, third, or left field as needed. potential for .285, 22hr & 90 rbi.

There might not be such a "rule," but wasn't there some legal precedent with the Xavier Hernandez signing? The Orioles were liable because the press release failed to state that the deal was pending passing a physical.

Telling a reporter seems very different from a press release though, I would think.

Roch,
Please interpret your comment "By the way, if the deal becomes official today, I'll walk to Seattle and stake out Bedard at the airport." The people on Orioles Hangout are starting another 30 page thread on the interpretation of what you meant by that. Most think that you meant that there will be no announcement today. How they they got that, I don't know, but I think you inadvertently started a fire storm. Please, no more metaphors when it comes to this trade. My heart can't take it.

This is just a lame and bogus excuse floated out there to try to deflect attention in another direction. Peter the Great has his hands all over this one....again. really, how many trades have been made in the history of MLB? do the Orioles actually expect us to believe that this issue has never before existed? and that no agent has ever before come up with language that is by now included in standard terms and conditions in trade agreements? if any credibility still existed in the Warehouse, this reduces it by half.

Unfortunately we are stuck with Baez- maybe he will have a better year next year... oh wait he will be rehabbing- waste...

Bradford and Walker are solid releivers but we cant use them as much as we did last year and with Bedard out of the rotation then who are the big inning eaters? DCab? Guthrie? Certainly not Lowenn nor the 5th slot.

I would look for Huff and Gibbons to have more productive years. I think both are capable of hitting .270 15-20 HR 80rbi- oh wait can Gibby hit one out of the infield now he is off the juice? And with Huff not being able to go out after a game because of nothing to do, will he be able to focus on hitting or what he will "hit" next?

These guys, this team, the Orioles Way...all are ruining Baltimore City and its fans.

Now living in AZ I saw the Dbacks play a lot since my friends are all fans. Went to a few O's vs Dbacks games in AZ... and I will tell you after watching that YOUNG team... this trade needs to get done more than ever. The Dbacks werent projected 3rd in their division and look what youth does...

First of all Chuck, Vitters in not eligible to trade yet since he was drafted last year. Second of all i would want someone who is proven and closer to being mlb ready than Vitters.

Third base is not a weak position in our system like second and short are. Moore could be a good player if given the spot. Also down the road is Billy Rowell.

The best trade we can get from the cubs have Gallagher and Pie in it.

Chuck--I'm all for holding out for great prospects, but expecting Josh Vitters for Brian Roberts is expecting far too much, unless Thrift, Flanagan, Beattie, or Duquette is running the Cubs.

Roch, I believe the concern was that by going ahead with the physical after Jones had "announced" it, the Orioles could be implicitly agreeing that the deal was done. So they would lose the option of bailing out if something turned up in the exam.

It seems far-fetched to me, but I don't blame Angelos for being super-cautious. Or for thinking like a lawyer.

Chuck, Mora hasn't seemed all that happy to be here the past two seasons, and that's with a regular job. I can't imagine that his outlook will improve with the O's in full rebuilding mode, while fighting Scott Moore for playing time.

Your's must not have been the rule book Earl used while arguing in Cleveland on Monday, June 18, 1979: that one he tore in halves, quarters, eighths, sixteenths, thirtyseconds, . . .

Keeping Roberts for a better package at the trading deadline seems better than getting the spare parts from the Cubs. Vitters is not available and would block Rowell, Snyder or whoever in the system that ends up at third. And Pie seems to have lost his luster after a few years if being their #1 prospect. Besides, we need middle infielders, not more pitchers and outfielders. You can never have too much talent but a glut at certain positions only means more trades that take the O's forever to make.

Roch, has anyone in the FO talked about sliding Mora to SS this year?

JP, it would be nice to get him huh? They have enough young Ps now, they need position prospects.

Hopefully, Gibbons & Payton are gone before the season starts, that would be addition by subtraction. Huff & Millar I would keep, not give away or toss overboard anyway.

sherrill is the gem of this deal in my opinion. can't believe how little hype he's gotten.

Chuck - Melvin "Me First" Mora is going to be a good influence on the young players because he wants to win but Brian Roberts we should "cut ties with" because he "just wants to collect a paycheck?" You're delusional. Mora does nothing but whine about not being in the lineup and when he is he doesn't hustle and makes stupid mental mistakes. He's really the #1 person in the clubhouse you should be worried about causing problems. (Well, maybe there are a couple others equally bad: Payton, Huff, Ramon Hernandez...) Roberts plays the game the right way and always tries to put on a happy face so he'd be a great influence on the young guys. Only problem is, 7 years of losing have him pretty fed up so as much as he likes Baltimore he'd also like to go somewhere that has a chance to win and actually plays like a team. Even if it would make him happier you can't afford to trade him for scraps though. Trading all stars in their prime for younger scrubs is not the kind of rebuilding that will lead to anything good.

Chuck, there is no way the Cubs trade Vitters. In reverse, what would Weiters bring in return. Too soon to judge these players full potential, but until then their value will be over-inflated.

Speaking of this, I read an article yesterday where Brandon Woods star appeal is declining as he has struggled a little more each higher level he advances. This article still expects power numbers however obvious holes are appearing in his swing as pitching improves through the levels.

The reason Huff, Hernandez, Mora and some of the others are not being mentioned in trades is because they have little or no value based on age, performance and contract. If any of those guys get traded the other team would want the O's to pay a good portion of the salary. The only hope would be for Hernandez to start hot and another teams catcher to go down, even then he won't bring much in return.

If, and I say if, Pie is involved in the Cubs deal with Gallegher and Cedeno then it is a good trade from a plyer standpoint but will still leave holes that the O's do not currently have filled. Sherrill is not a closer but can fill the role, Hernandez and Cedeno can play SS and 2b but neither has played 2b regularly in the past so that will be a challenge. I do however like the outfiield of Jones, Pie and Markakis.

Thanks for the updates Roch.

I need a new key for all these refreshes. Should be an interesting Hot Stove show tonight. Can you schedule Adam Jones to call in?

Let's just pray that this rebuilding project goes a lot better than Syd's project back in the summer of 2000. If you recall, we purged Will Clark, BJ Surhoff, Mike Bordick and Harold Baines all within a few days. The only notable players brought back were Brook Fordyce and Melvin Mora. The purge was a disaster and is one of the big reasons why we are in this black hole today.

BJ was our best player of that group at the time and he brought back absolutely nothing. El Syd didn't read the medicals and the centerpiece of that deal, Luis Rivera was damaged goods. Frank Wren was fired by Angelos after 1 year late in 1999. Do you think he was behind that one?

Mike Bordick went to the Mets for 4 players and one of them was Mora. The other 3 were older than what they told Syd.

Baines was a trade that had no upside because Fordyce was not that good. Clark was a dump to St. Louis.

All in all, we got back 11-12 players for that purge. Only Mora panned out. I don't know what the rate of return should be on these things, but I would imagine that we should have done better than just 1 decent player. Imagine if half of them would have lasted more than the 1 or 2 years that everyone aside from Mora did. They would probably be in the lineup now, or have been trading chips that would have decent players in here. We wouldn't be stuck with Gibbons, Payton, Huff or that fat slob behind the plate. Syd ruined this team. Let's hope McPhail makes the right moves.

Adam Jones was once a SS who was moved to CF because the Mariners had a plethora of SSs. Is it possible that he could become a SS again, especially if Pie is obtained in a Roberts trade?

Assuming we make the deal, the O's could have 6 or 7 20+ homerun hitters in the lineup. This of course if they get plenty of at-bats. My list is: Markakis, Huff, Scott, Jones, Moore, Hernandez, Millar. Of course Melvin "Don't ever take me out of the lineup" Mora will take abs away from Scott Moore.

With the young starting pitching I look for the guys that don't make the rotation to pick long relief rolls. If you have Guthrie, Loewen, D-Cab, Patton, & Olson. Albers, Burres, Liz, Penn can get some good experience in the role. To me the back end isn't to bad, Walker, Bradford, Sherril, Sarfate.

I'd go watch these guys before, Payton, Mora, Gibbons, Bako and crap like that.

Just trying to stay positive.

Based on what the Twins got - we are geting a great deal of potential talent for a pitcher who is somewhat fragile and going to walk in 2 years anyway. The pitching thing is an issue - the Mariner shorstop would have been nice...we are giving up pitching for position talent...but I'm okay with that - I can deal with a terriblg young team more than I can watch a team caught in the middle every year.

Roch - as I read the Olney article it didnt refer to any baseball rule. It seemed to me that by announcing a trade done with no qualifier as to it being pending physicals, the player filed a suit, perhaps, and this is speculation, he showed his market value or career was hurt by the fact that a trade announced as done killed any interest from other teams and the delay caused harm? I am speculating and this seems more likely in a free agency situation but I wouldnt question Angelos on a point of law.

That said, I couldnt care less about creating a hole today as these guys are forfeiting the next two seasons. Keep acquiring pitching as it is the most valuable and sought after commodity. If we have spare pitching I bet we can acquire a 2B thru trade or free agency if that is our final hole to fill in a few years. Never mind that we will have further trades and signing and drafts between now anad our targetted re-entry into the league in a couple years. Today, jon one is acquiring the most and best young talent we can. Fitting it together into a cohesive team can be done over the next few years as the prospects mature and we see who is a real major leaguer and who is a 4A player. Some folks here need to stop overthinking this process.

i hope they resolve this today: i want my boyfriend back.

Good grief. The "sources" Olney cited musn't know much about contracts and contract law. You think a team lead by Peter G. Angelos, Attorney-at-law, would permit the team to be left holding the bags on damaged goods? No way - there's always a clause or caveat he'd insert into the paperwork submitted to the MLB offices regarding the outcome of a physical and circumstances in which the trade may be voided.

Does anyone think the singing of Wilkerson was because Jones is getting ready to leave for baltimore?

Im so-so on B-ROB if you trade him, you have no good replacements and no future 2b. But the again you can get someone like Felix Pie and Sean Gallagher and more in return.
One thing, if bedard and roberts get traded dont get mad if they are the worse the the AL overall

I agree with the WAYWARD O
Mabey not that he is the centerpiece of the deal, but he still is huge and would make the Orioles bullpen be that much better

That Olney story is ridiculous. Trades aren't official until the paperwork is submitted and filed at MLB headquarters. Players flunk physicals all the time and those deals are negated -- just last week, Guillermo Mota failed a physical, hanging up a deal in which he would have gone to the Red Sox for Coco Crisp.

The only situation in which this becomes an issue is when a player is injured before a deal is done but his injury is not disclosed (whether on purpose or because he didn't know he was hurt) to his new team and the new team finds out afterward. Then you've got a problem.

Sounds like heavy talks to me, regarding Olney. And the O's being careful. I would imagine trades were pending physical results, but you could get pretty specific about what physical problems could cause a rejection.

I guess with this trade it will come down to who has who by the baseballs. With EB being so coveted, I'm saying we're going to score here. Worst case? We keep the best pitcher we've had in 10 years? I'm feeling ok.

Vitters and a low level prospect for Roberts?

You're referring to arguably one of the best pure position players to come out of the draft, drafted 3rd overall, arguably could of easily been the 1st or 2nd pick taken overall. And you think we should trade him and a low level prospect for Roberts, and ageing 2nd baseman , who's best year was in 2005 when he topped what.315?

Im curious, why are some of you O's fans so high on Roberts, besides the leadoff man that steals bases and can get on base? It seems at times some people act like he's the next Joe Morgan or Roger Hornsby. Just curious, that's all....

The BIG question of the week should be WHY your parents named you ROCH instead of ROCK ?? Inquiring minds want to know. 8^)

Well the know it all trade psychophants on the hangout board are reporting the trade is done like they have 10 times the last couple weeks. I wish the mods over there would delete threads saying trades are complete because Roch is talking about Roberts now.If this trade goes through for Jones and 4 low minor pitchers it will be the worst trade in Orioles history easily passing the Glenn Davis deal.

People don't understand the Orioles need change. We may like Berdard,and Roberts but we will never win with those guys. Get as much talent as you can to rebuild a team who has been disappointing for years. All I'am saying is you have to give your best away sometime to make your team better in the future.If we don't take some steps forward we will continue to be a struggling team. PS thats a fact.