How about letting your SS and catcher focus on defense and bringing in outfielders and a first baseman who can drive in runs? Strong defensively up the middle and offensively on the corners... I know I've heard that somewhere... I know the Orioles have attempted to buck that trend, but it didn't seem like the most successful approach. Sometimes thinking outside the box is just odd, not better.

i agree about luis hernandez ... and he may become a better hitter in time. too early to write him off.

run production is going to have to come from the younguns.

and markakis, of couse.

Roch: Excellent artice on Fahey. I'll be pulling for the guy. He's just the type of character guy we need to fill out the roster. I feel DT will do his best to rid the team of mal-contents and clubhouse cancers.

jpa,

That would involve common sense (power at 1b, dh, lf). I cringed everytime someone mentions Fahey. Hasn't he shown that he cannot play at the ML level? At least give Hernandez a full season or a half season to show what he can do.
The team performed well when he played last year. Trying to find a power hitting SS is much harder than the other positions.

Rich

Thats a good point. I never thought about how Tejada's absence in the lineup would effect Markakis. I noticed his strikeouts and double play balls were up alot in 2007, it was obvious he sometimes got overly agressive and swong at garbage, now he will be even more inclined to do so...I hope Luke Scott can save the day.

I don't know about you. But, Mora/Hernandez on the left side of the infield doesn't give me the same warm and fuzzies as Robinson/Belanger did.

Roch, Happy New Year! To me, Cowher would be a no-brainer and who cares about his Steelers past? His Steelers past is what makes him attractive because he was a success for so long. I think Ravens fans will be looking more toward the present and future—does the team win with him at the helm? I think there’s more potential for Steelers fans to be upset at his becoming the Ravens coach. They’d have to view one of their great coaches as a turncoat for going to a divisional rival. That would really take this rivalry up several notches, particularly if the Ravens turn into winners again.

I think Cowher won’t come here though. The position might be enticing, but I think he’s a dyed in the wool Steeler even though he’s retired and may likely not coach again unless it’s with Pittsburgh or a team that is as distant from Pittsburgh as possible (probably not in the AFC).

I agree about Hernandez at short: a defensive shortstop would’ve been fine in the past. Unless Hernandez is an exceptional defensive shortstop in the Ozzie Smith/Omar Vizquel mold, you can envision them searching for a long term player with perhaps slightly less defensive skill (but still better than average) and significantly more offensive production. Even if you have other position players picking up the offensive slack—which the Orioles were lacking in last season and still are—teams tend to seek out as much offense as possible, even if it means taking a hit on defense.

I think for 2008, though, Hernandez might be okay and, as you suggest, the team may have no other choice. The team is clearly in some sort of transitional/rebuilding mode—the merits of which so far this offseason are debatable—and the prospects of them bringing in any solid offense at this point of the offseason are very small, whether they target shortstop or any other position. The team apparently isn’t seeking such players, and the limited options from the start of the offseason have grown even more limited. Next season could be quite painful, though I think seeing Hernandez out at shortstop each game could be one of the bright spots.

JPA--You make a great point. Defense up the middle and hitters on the corners is key. In OPACY, you need defense in LF, too.

Having Hernandez at SS will help with the infield defense, but having Payton/Redman in CF and Scott in LF is just terrible. Orioles' opponents will delight as their routine fly-outs become triples on a regular basis.

Now is the time to trade Bedard and Roberts for Jay Bruce (Reds) and Felix Pie (Cubs). Those defensive (and offensive) upgrades will make all of the pitchers better.

Fahey could contribute greatly to the defense as the everyday 2B.

There's always a choice. This organization has been offensive deficient for a long time and losing Tejada's #'s is just widening the gap. No way will Scott make up those numbers... As it stands now, make plans for a long hot summer with an offensive drought that will truly be mind boggling. This may be the year that the medoza line will be a goal and not something to be ridiculed.

There's always a choice. This organization has been offensive deficient for a long time and losing Tejada's #'s is just widening the gap. No way will Scott make up those numbers... As it stands now, make plans for a long hot summer with an offensive drought that will truly be mind boggling. This may be the year that the medoza line will be a goal and not something to be ridiculed.

I liked the Petrino line.....

I agree with you Roch, as of now, Hernandez.

Face it guys, no run producers, certainly at SS, will be coming here. I doubt they can even turn up one to play LF or 1B. They are NOT spending any $$ or dealing any "prospects". We are the KC Royals of the east for a few years at least.....

I agree. If you are developing young pitching, put good defense where possible, especially short, 2nd, center and catcher and get your offense from 3rd, first and outfield corners. I like Luis Hernandez. He's 23, give him a shot. When he was in there last year, he did hit and his defense is way above average with great range.

Correction...Who is on first, What is on second, and i dont know is on third. I don't give a darn is at short!! :)

Happy New Year everyone!

It is great to be back safe and sound after traveling down and up 85 to GA for the holidays. I am ready for another year of pissing off....well, you know who you are...

If the rumored trades with Bedard and Roberts go through the O's look to add either a CF or 1B with a decent bat and a SS who might not be ready for prime time. I do not know if Jones or Votto can add the pop the O's need, however.

On the other hand, MacPhail seems to be of the opinion that Scott can put up Tejada style numbers if given 550 - 600 ABs.

If you look at Scott's numbers, he does hit lefties pretty well. Although you have to wonder why he was not a full time player - given Houston's offensive struggles - if he was so good.

On the other hand, I still do not understand the O's reluctance with Hernandez. Do they think his 2007 stats were a complete aberration? You would think he would be a perfect fit on a team that wants to focus on defense.

I've just been reading the forums for a while... but now I'm gonna make a comment.

JPA - I agree with you. Two words. Mark Teixeira. I think we need some dude like him who can do the run producer thing for us. 1st basemen. That's where we need to look for because Millar isn't really that type of guy anymore. He will be good in the 7th spot but not the 4th spot.

I'm hoping the organization will find somebody like Mark or actually attempt to sign him if he becomes a free agent somewhere down the line.

The traditional winning ways of the O's .. run producers on the corners and outfield, Defense minded up the middle. The World Series Champs O's .. run producers on the corners and outfield and defense minded/strong up the middle. Hmmm .. wonder if the O's front office gets the hint yet?? Nah, doubt it.

Ben W - I seriously doubt the O's have any plans of spending the kind of money it will take to get Tex.

Even if he gave us a home team discount - which he won't - MacPhail is looking for cheap players the team can control for 2 - 6 years.

If the O's are not on the verge of contention he will say "One player is not going to put us in post season..." and if they somehow manage to compete he will say, "We have proved we can compete without a high payroll and we intend to stay the course..."

"I believe Hernandez can handle the bat well enough that he won't be a liability."

Roch - what in the world leads you to believe this? The guy is a TERRIBLE hitter, has been throughout his entire minor-league career. Please don't tell me you're one of the ones willing to trust 70 major-league at-bats over 2200 minor league ones... you're smarter than that. He's a .230 major-league hitter and he won't crack .280 obp. That's terrible and he doesn't deserve to be in the major leagues - there is no way around it. So what have you seen to justify the statement that he won't be "a liability" on offense? He's really not that much better than letting the pitcher bat - he's pretty much an automatic out, and last I checked there's really not much room for that in the AL.

Having Hernandez as your everyday shortstop makes some sense I suppose if you have some semblance of offense at the other positions. Unfortunately, the '08 Orioles look to be the second coming of the 60's LA Dodgers-without the great pitching. That team would scratch out 1 or 2 runs and then sit back and watch Drysdale/Koufax and co. pitch a shutout.
Our pitching will be average at best and mediocre or worse if Bedard is dumped. Combine that with an offense that will be lucky to have anyone other than Markakis hit 20 HR/100 RBI and we are in for a LONG season.
The problem of course is that we have far too many 7,8,9 place hitters in the starting lineup. Guys like both Hernandez's, Millar, Payton (ugh) and Mora likely wouldn't even start for most teams yet we are somehow expecting them to carry the offense..
I guess this is all part of McPhail's master plan-use stop gaps until the stars in waiting are ready. The problem is that many of these guys are never going to be ready. In the meantime, the O's could well be even worse than '07's edition which featured that sterling 11-27 finish. we could see that kind of record for the entire '08.
Take off the rose coloured glasses-there isn't going to be too many more trades, the already thin free-agent crop has been picked over and there doesn't seem to be too many Markakis's 'down on the farm". That leaves the old tried and true option of scouring the bargain bin/waiver-wire which brought us the 2 Victors, Russ Ortiz, Paul Bako and too many similiar type players.

WDW: Maybe we need to define "liability." He's not going to hit .300 in the majors. But he can do the little things that the Orioles will stress in spring training. And I wouldn't go so far as to call him an automatic out. But I agree that he hasn't shown much at the plate in the minors and is a No. 9 hitter in any lineup, even Bowie's. My point is that's fine if there are enough players to handle the offensive load. His defense alone makes him worthy of a spot. But you can't cover as easily for his offensive deficiencies as the current roster is constructed.

True O's Fan or is that True O's Employee. The Orioles have been giving inside info to Dave Sheinin of the POST for years. Once talk of a DC team began and the Orioles continued going downhill there was more and more sarcasm from the Post and less interest from DC fans, obviously. The Orioles will do anything they can to avoid the Sun. They still won't allow former Sun columnist, Ken Rosenthal who they despise, anywhere near MASN or WJFK. And that's a fact. Look teams can give info and breaking news to whomever they want. But it only seems fair and a common courtesy to give it your media partner whether it be The Sun, BAL or JFK/HFS. Hell, The Ravens didn't even give this info to MASN which is supposed to be THE place for "maximum access." The Orioles didn't give news to their media partner when it was WBAL and the Ravens didn't give it to theirs. There is nothing whiny about that. It's a fact. But it should be common courtesy to break big stories with the people paying to broadcast and promote your team. And don't get me started on the ineptness of the warehouse when it comes to putting out information. They didn't even tell their own GM and Asst GM they had a new boss. They had to hear about it from the press at a press conference. And when were they going to tell fans about that little ticket price increase this year? They couldn't even get that right. You're correct, there is no reason to bash the warehouse. They do a good enough of job of that themselves. Yes, Jay Glazer may have great "sources" but they certainly aren't great people.

It seems that people are forgetting that the 2 franchises that everyone wants us to emulate - Arizona and San Diego - had Drew and Greene at SS.

Both were superlative defensively and offensive liabilities.

Meanwhile, Boston won the WS with steady-glove Julio Lugo and his .237 BA and .294 slugging pct (and his .643 OPS!) at SS.

Seems as if some teams have had success without an ARod as their SS.

Then again, if you are rejecting Hernandez at SS, WHO ARE YOU GOING TO PLAY?????????

Anyone can point out the flaws in a plan, but what difference does it make if you do not have an alternative? You prefer Fahey? Maybe you want to move Markakis to SS? Who?

Offering a fantastic trade that nets the O's an all world SS is great - but it is not likely to happen. There are no SS on the FA market who would be worth dropping a ton of money on. So should the O's just leave the position vacant?

I think Hernandez is going to be a lot better than many people think. Is he going to be a Cal Ripken or an Ozzie Smith? No. But, have you ever heard of Mark Belanger?

If he stops 1 run from scoring each game with his D who cares if he only hits .235?

Ben--the fact that it makes so much sense for this organization to sign Texiera next year makes me think it will never happen. We would have to determine what the Braves will be extending him for and overshoot that by 10-15 million. Does that sound like this organization?

I'm fine with Hernandez at SS. Why not? The whole point of rebuilding is to look at some young potential diamonds in the rough. Hernandez didn't hit much in the minors but did not look overmatched in his ML ABs. Why pick up a retread and give them $4-5 million?

This club needs to focus on incremental value. Don't spend just a couple of million on several positions to get just a little better. Spend a lot of money to make huge upgrades in areas of weakness (or resign impact players like Bedard/Roberts and look ahead and lock up Markakis). You eliminate holes on your roster and there is no need for future upgrades.

Unless you are willing to make a long-term signing at a position of weakness, don't bother. We can even begin doing that now if we make the contracts long enough. The FO has fooled us into believing we have to have a low payroll to accomplish this goal of rebuilding. I don't know that young players benefit from playing time AND and horrible team, but such is the message we are being fed.

TomD. I don't think Hernandez will come anywhere near putting up the numbers Greene, Drew or Lugo did. Yes, those guys may be lacking in offensive skills but Greene does hit for power (15-20 Hrs) and Lugo was actually a better than average hitter, with some pop while with Tampa.
Hernandez track record doesn't look impressive and in answer to your question about who his replacement should be...there really isn't anyone else-much like many of our positions. That means that maybe we shouldn't have traded Tejada but of course, that is water under the bridge now.
The problem is that there are too many holes to fill and not enough viable options. Our current everyday lineup is full of guys who are bench players elsewhere and Hernandez probably one of them. To even compare him to Belanger is a real stretch, based on his limited MLB career.
I'd like to see Hernandez turn into the second coming of Mark Belanger or even Mike Bordick but I' m not holding my breath.

Chris Roberson????

More depth for Bowie....

Luis Hernandez couldn't put up a .600 OPS (.592) in extended ABs in AA last year. He has never put up better than a .550 OPS in limited AAA ABs. I put very little weight into the 69 ABs he had in Baltimore.

Give him extended ABs at the big league level, he will likely put up no better than a .590 or so OPS. That is the definition of a liability. He will likely the worst hitter in major league baseball.

He doesn't walk. He doesn't hit for power. And he doesn't really hit for average.

If, and this is a big if, he can put up a .600 OPS and play gold glove, elite-level, Ozzie Smith type of defense, he can probably make himself into an acceptable stop gap at SS. That probably is not going to happen. And even though he really doesn't hurt us if we aren't competing, you never just want to settle for players that aren't good.

The Belanger comparisons don't fly because as we all know, Belanger was one of those elite-level SSs. He also played in a different era and had more than a few decent seasons with the bat (for a SS), something Hernandez will never be able to do.