Chris Shelton was DFA'd by the Rangers, any thoughts on taking a flyer?

Treat it like the back end of the rotation. Everyone's admitted that the Orioles are not going to compete this year. Why waste the time and energy when Ray and {cough} Baez will both be back at full strength next year. Spend that time and energy on a center fielder or shortstop that can hit for power. Center fielder would be my preference because they are generally easier to find and, therefore, cheaper.

I would not be too thrilled if Greg Aquino is given the role of closer. What this team needs is several veteran arms that have had closer experience. I don't care how many games Aquino has closed in the past; I want as much competition amongst vets for a shot to close as I want competition amongst kids and rooks for the back end of the rotation. If Aquino falters during the season or during spring training, why not plug a guy like Dotel in there and see what he can do? We all know this team is most likely going to struggle closing out games this year; we do not have Rivera, or Wagner, or Papelbon closing these games out so just go out there and get a couple more veteran arms so that if Aquino falters we don't take Bradford and Walker out of their comfort zone and turn them into 9th inning relievers. Does anyone else feel this way? Maybe I'm the one who is the schizophrenic psycho. . .yea

To need a closer you have to have a lead in the 9th inning. The Orioles do not need a closer.

Why are we worried about a CLOSER?

Think what a closer is about. He is there to hold the lead and shut the other team down to be a strong peice in a winning team.

What is 2008 about?
Winning
or
discovering the peices?

This position on the team is another vehicle to discover a talents temprament and control. Lets see these young guys playing a variety of roles on this pitching staff. Develop our talent.

Are we trying for the playoffs or are we trying to buld a winner?

I'm gonna say give to the kids.. see what they can do... I like Patton or McCrory in that role.

I don't think Olson's going to close. Aquino either.

I have no idea what the team is doing this year, seriously. It's the first time I have no clue about this club at all.

Either it's terrifying or exciting. I'm going with terrifying.

Out of all things the Orioles need to be looking for right now, a closer should be among the least of their priorities.

I'm not going to be overly upset if they sign a veteran stop-gap such as Dotel, but I certainly wouldn't laud the move either. We already have Bradford and Walker, let them rack up the saves to inflate their value and then send to a contender at the deadline.

Spending any more than one or two million for a closer would be foolish for this team.

I don't see the need for a veteran closer. It's one of those roles that is very hard to predict. How many people would have thought Reyes would have the season he did last year for Tampa Bay? Or a long-term minor league guy (and hence not a top prospect) like Valverde could step in to the role and be so good? I'd really like to believe that someone currently on our roster can step into the role under the tutelage of Kranitz. It seems a lot wiser than signing some mediocre guy with "experience." As others have pointed out, if you have a really good team to begin with then it's fine to spend on a top-flight closer. Otherwise they just aren't the kind of players you ever want to sign.

“There comes a time when you have to look at other options.” Aagh! That sounds like a Duquette/Flanagan line. Sorry, I’m having painful flashbacks.

JPA: Good point about players being rushed. Who can say really? There are no set criteria for determining this. We can probably agree that Ben McDonald was rushed (he came up the same year he was drafted), but to me, it seems odd to say that Jeff Fiorentino was forever ruined by a three-week stint in the majors a few years ago. A player with good skills should be able to overcome any damage such a thing could conceivably cause. If not, then any hope for overcoming adversity is shot, and really, you must be able to overcome adversity if you’re going to be a major league player.

I’m going to be the voice of disagreement here and say that signing someone like Dotel to close makes sense, even in this rebuilding phase. Optimally, the team does this so that Dotel, if healthy (a big if to be sure), can close for a majority of the season as one of the young, homegrown pitchers learns the setup role and possibly steps in late in the season or even sooner if he earns it. The O’s aren’t going to be spending a lot on free agents this year, and they shouldn’t. Here’s one place, though, where it would be a good idea on a one-year basis.

I think we all know what a lightning rod for criticism the closer role can be and the amount of pressure it puts on not only the closer but the rest of the bullpen and the manager. When it’s June and the team has tried out a cast of young pitchers for the role and they’ve failed or had mixed results, everyone here will be calling for Trembley’s head when Patton, Sarfate, Olson, Aquino, Hoey, or whoever blows yet another 3-run lead. It doesn’t matter how bad the team is, no one here is going to have any patience for it. The team will respond in kind and start trolling for lukewarm leftovers like Victor Santos and Victor Zambrano because the bullpen will have been decimated by failure.

I don't think I want Dotel. Although signing him might net us a couple wins, it takes away innings from younger players. He would be the second oldest pitcher on the 40-man (after Walker and just older than Bradford.) Besides, after making 5 million last year, he's probably seeking more than he is worth to us.

Who gets knocked off the roster to make room for him? I don't mind losing players to sign younger ones (I still don't really get the Roberson-Screech swap,) but not to pick up a one-year stop-gap while Ray heals. Allowing a rotating cast of youngsters to close fits in better with rebuilding, come what may.

Bring back Gregg Olson to close.

A thought...

Since the openings for center fielders are getting filled, are we looking at Corey again? Let's offer him a 1 year deal with a club option, and load it with incentives: OBA, walks, steals... remembering some past quotes, it doesn't seem Corey thinks his lack of plate discipline is a problem. Offering him an extra million if he walks 100 times (or something similar) impresses upon him that it's important to the team.

Pay for performance, what a concept!

You know, I have to agree, while it's slow to watch, this has been an interesting hot stove season for the O's. I do believe we can build a winner, and time will tell. But so far, I like what McPhail has done. There just seems to be more of a plan behind his moves, and a lot more discipline. My opinion...

Go O's!

Personally, while I wouldn't drop several million for a stopgap closer (although if we want to trade a couple of our newly acquired starting arms for Huston Street, I will not complain) I do think it's important for the younger pitchers not to have to bear that load right now. I don't care how many games we win, because of having an experienced closer...as much as I don't want to see the confidence of a young guy like Hoey or McCrory destroyed because they're thrown into a situation that they not ready to handle just yet. I'd rather they get the chance to work their way into the setup role, etc naturally.

But as we can see just from the replies so far that we, the Peanut Gallery, can't agree on what we think is best for the team at this point.

kids kids kids kids kids

KIDS

K is for KIDS

I think they need to bring in as many cheap, veteran options to Spring Training as possible and let them sort it out themselves. We've seen enough blown saves that leave our starters dejected. That number would only increase if we left the closing duties to green youngsters. As for the long relief role, that should go to one of those guys. But a veteran who takes getting those last 3 outs seriously after a starter has delivered a quality performance is what we need.

I've noticed some people (including myself) asking for fall and winter league updates on O's prospects besides Wieters, and a recent post on the sun's fantasy blog led me to the page mlb.com that tracks those stats(), These numbers are small sample sizes, but it's nice to have something tangible to look at in the offseason, so here's an update for anyone interested:

- Brandon Snyder led the Hawaii league in hitting (.378), but K'd 23 times in 90 AB's.

- Rob McCrory, Jake Arrieta and Hayden Penn all pitched for the Phoenix Desert Dogs in the Arizona Fall League. From the looks of the rosters, this appears to be the most legit offseason league. Penn carried a 6.45 ERA in 7 starts, but went 1-0 with 27 K's in 22.1 IP. McCrory posted good numbers in relief, going 2-1 with 5 saves and 11 K's while carrying a 1.5 ERA over 12 IP. Arrieta was spotless, allowing zero runs on 8 hits with 16 K's in 16 IP. Love seeing that.

- Nolan Reimold played for this team too and led the league in dingers (6) and RBI (23) but also hit .245 with 33 K's in 106 AB's. Mixed results to say the least.

- Dennis Sarfate (from the Tejada deal) has 9 K's in 4 IP (3 SV's and 2.25 ERA) in Mexican Winter League play.

- Sendy Rleal has a 9.82 ERA in 3.2 IP with 1K in the Venezuelan league.

- Luke Scott, Luis Hernandez and Oscar Salazar played in this league too, and while Scott and Hernandez hit .211 and .212 respectively, Salazar hit .289 with 7 bombs and 30 RBI in 228 AB's, ranking near the top in numerous offensive categories. This league has big leaguers playing in it like Melvin Mora, Miguel Cabrera, Edgardo Alfonzo, Omar Infante, and Richard Hidalgo.

- Alberto Castillo hit .176 in over 125 AB's in the Dominican, but would not be outdone by fellow O's backstop JR House, who hit .161 in 62 AB's. Way to go fellas.

- Also in the Dominican, Freddie Bynum played OF and hit .253 in 95 AB's and swiped 6 bags.

- As for the pitchers in the Dominican: Radhames Liz threw 18.1 IP and had a 1.96 ERA with 15 K's, DCab had a 1.29 ERA over 14 IP with only 6 K's, and Greg Aquino had 2 Sv's and 10 K's in 8.2 IP carrying a 2.08 ERA.

- Finally, updates on Felix Pie and Adam Jones. Jones is hitting .304 with no bombs in 69 Ab's in Venezuela and Pie is hitting .244 with 2 bombs and 6 steals in 127 ab's in the Dominican.

I tried to track down everyone, but I'm sure I missed some names.

A few conclusions: It appears Snyder can hit, but if he can't hit for power, he might not have a position as that would make him less than ideal at 1st, Rowell is at 3rd and wieters is catching. Arrieta needs to be on the fast track, as do any of the college guys who are tearing up low levels of the minors given their age. Sarfate appears to have "something," given his SO numbers everywhere he has been, so hopefully the O's can harness that and make him a successful big league reliever. Once the O's deal Roberts, Salazar needs to be in the big league infield rotation (he played 2nd base this winter). It appears he has a decent stick, and he's been in the system long enough that he needs to be given a shot or be given up on.

it seems to me that putting a young pitcher in at closer has the potential to shatter a fragile confidence. granted, it also has the potential to bolster; but, do the rewards outweigh the risks?? i think probably not. a one year veteran would be a good idea. dotel would be interesting because he could easily become trade bait come the deadline. that is how a rebuilding team needs to think, and therefore act, is it not??

can you say deadline deal?

Maybe Tippy Martinez will return. He's only 57, and not having pitched since 1988, he's well-rested.

Stu Miller is another option. He's 80, but that will just give him veteran presence.

It's just a shame that Hoyt Wilhelm has been lost to all of us, because he certainly was the finest reliever this team has ever had.

how about, to make it more fun, we could have "Closer Fan Night". This would be every night, and IF the O's had a lead, one lucky fan would be called to come down and give it a go.

Of couse, it'd only be those fans who want to sign up, and maybe you have to have a brief physical the night before (or just sign a waiver in case your arm goes futher than the ball).

Plus it'd create a buzz that a) you might get picked and b) you might get to watch someone you played HS ball with close the game.

C is for Closer.

I think a lot of people forget that development in baseball is almost as much confidence as it is physical ability.

It is not like you can take a promising young player, put him in the major leagues and expect him to "develop normally" while he is going 1 - 5 or sporting a 6.00 ERA.

Indeed, many of the same people who are apologizing for Cabrera's poor performance because he was "rushed" to the majors are saying we need to dump all or almost all vets and bring up the top prospects.

If Cabrera was hurt by being force fed why won't Liz, Olson, Beato, etc? Why won't Reimold, Snyder and even Wieters be set back by being rushed?

Does anyone not understand that Guthrie was set back by all of the games the bullpen blew for him? It affects how you pitch - in addition to starting to believe you are going to lose (a mindset I though we wanted to eradicate), you also are not going to throw the pitch you need to master but are still working on because you are afraid it will cost you a run and make it easier for the bullpen to lose it again. Additionally, he was taken out of ROY consideration by the bullpen.

Having a closer who can get 30+ saves - even if he blows a dozen - could make a huge difference to a young team. Having him would also allow guys like Hoey to pitch in less pressure situations. It also allows Trembley to return Walker and Bradford to their intended slots.

My preference would still be to give Sarfate a shot. But if Trembley says he will not use an inexperienced closer they will absolutely need to get a vet. I am not sold on Dotel, but there is not much left out there.

And here is another pointed question - NONE of the trades discussed would have brought an experienced closer to the Orioles. If the team knew in November or December that it needed a veteran closer and that none would likely be available in a trade, why did MacPhail wait until the end of January to address this?

Spending for a closer right now is silly. You want to put the guy in there that has the most to gain from success. Aquino is a good option, I would think of Cherry as an option as well. We should be looking at the closer position as a place to build value for trade. Whenever (if?) we become a real baseball team, THEN we can worry about little things like closers and such. Right now, what is the difference between putting all-star-closer-X and Aquino out there for THIS Orioles' team? 2 wins? 3? Wow, now we're only a 100 lose team.
-m

Yes. We dont have a closer. We need a closer. Since were all worried about all these prospects fragile psyches, lets consider the effects it will have on them when they go 7 strong with a 1-3 run leage, only to see Jim Hoey or one of the other youngsters implode out there and yield the team a loss and them a no-decision. Soon enough Bradford and Walker will be taken out of their roles and we will be seeing last years bullpen all over again. Also, if our closer has a half decent season, we can trade him while giving a youngster time to ease into the role. Also what the hell else do we need to spend that money on???

Will anyone think of the children? I mean...

Why are we so concerned about protecting this psyche or that psyche? What about my psyche? I've had to watch the same death march for the past 10 years and I'm frankly a little bored by it. The fact is that signing someone like Dotel is exactly the strategy that has failed over and over and over and over....

-m

You guys saying that $igning Dotel, for one year, is a waste or shows there is no "plan" are in error. It doesn't mess up any "plan" to basically "rent" a guy who has closed before. With that piece in place, the rest of the bullpen falls into place & is better too. Take a guy there now & use him to close & that screws up the rest of them. Blown leads late in a game demoralizes a team & lord knows this team will be demoralized enough. They don't need a rook closing, no matter how promising he may be. Work in a rook here & there to close to give the Vet a night off, that is the way to break them in. But you do it in June or July, not at the start of the season where it is all on his shoulders. There are many good reasons for a Vet here, I have only listed the main ones....
Dotel is a low risk , high yield signing too. JUST one year, tell him he will close if healthy. That alone might get him, the other teams pusuing him probably can't tell him that or won't. He won't break the bank either. If there is another veteran type with closer experience out there, great, sign him instead, but I can't think of any.

Barajas as a backup is a GREAT idea. He is proven & could also come cheap & short term. Also, consider this, if they deal Hernandez at the trade deadline, who C's for the last 2 1/2 months? Quizno??? That would be horrific, not to mention what it could do to a young, learning staff of starters.

Patterson is a must do too, for just 1 year, 2 at most. He adds speed, D in CF for the pitching which is key, & keeps Payton out of the lineup hopefully! I don't care if he bats .250, that is not why he is needed or signed.

All of the above doesn't screw up any "plan" , slow down growth of "prospects, or break the budget. potter will make huge profits with this roster, don't worry....

Oh yeah Roch, we lose Bynum & the season goes to hell.... :-)

I agree on the FO not accepting the C prospect in any Bedard deal. They have Weiters coming up & also, consider this, if they are so eager to deal the guy but insist on keeping the P prospects over him, then there must be something wrong with the C prospect. teams don't deal young, good, up & coming C's so easily. I say hold out for Jones & the P's even though they don't seem to need more young P's instead of position players.

It would be a major upset if James Hoey or Bob McCrory is chosen to replace Chris Ray. Manager Dave Trembley doesn’t want an inexperienced hand taking the ball in the ninth inning, and MacPhail agrees.
“We certainly would not want to throw a kid in that role, not out of spring training,” MacPhail said.

Well isn't this EXACTLY what they did with Ray???? Hopefully they learned from that ,but I doubt it.

Matt R -

Thanks for all the offseason season stats. Hopefully Snyder bounces back from injuries to post better numbers. Right now BP projects he'll be a scrub player.

I strongly agree with points made by CRB and Tom D. Although I just wrote that rushing people through the system may not be as bad as people think,closer is a bit of a different situation. It takes a lot of maturity (frankly, Chris Ray is still a question mark when he does return--how quickly we forget!). I like the idea of a moderately effective, moderately priced veteran for this year. It doesn't have to be Dotel but I am not aware of many other options. Constantly blowing games IS one way to damage a players' development. You would have thought we could have brought in a marginal old relief guy by now however. I think it would have been wise to fill a few holes earlier in the winter and at worst the bench would be a little more solid. The back of our 40 man roster is atrocious anyway.

I would like to see D Cab be given the chance to close. In my opinion he is the most logical choice at this time (If we still have Bedard in the rotation). His future has to be in the bullpen. When you look back on the Mesa's and the Rhodes' we have had, he is exactly their make up with a little more "potential". That may put us in position to keep Patton and/or Olson in the rotation but I say do it. It would also save us the 5-8 Mil it would take to sign a one year rental at closer and possibly spend that on a cheap veteran SP or Patterson in center.

Id like to hear your thought on this Roch.

You take the veteran closer. Experienced teams can bounce back fromm a heartbreaking loss, young teams cannot. Confidence plays such a major role. A young team thrives on momentum and confidence, to put a young man in there, maybe the most pressured position in baseball and have him fail could set a wave of unassurance through the team that they may never recover from. I say sign Dotel and periodically place a young guy in there to see how he does. Dotel will answer after a blown save, "things happen and I will get them next time", a young guy feels he let the team down and presses the next time. Several blown saves will cause the team to lose confidence as a team.

Closers are made, not born. At any given time there are maybe 10 true closers in the big leagues, and 20 guys who have the role because their team doesn't have one of the top 10.

The smartest organizations understand this.

Let's see if MacPhail and Trembley do. Otherwise, we'll get another Mike Trombley.

I completely disagree Fogus. What's plagued us is signing someone like Dotel to a multi-year contract for a ton more money than anyone else would even consider. Signing him to a one-year deal is a great move, though he's not the only veteran option. I agree with those that feel you cannot rely on a young kid in the closer's role, particularly on a team that isn't expected to compete much. The few times you have the lead late in the game, you want the kids who got us tehre to feel good about getting the W, not having Hoey blow it in the 9th and everyone's confidence comes crashing down. There's very little risk in the one-year deal if we don't have anyone ready to do it right now.

Wilhelm: He was an O for 4 years, 2 of which he was a starter. Hardly qualifies him as "finest reliever this team ever had."
He pitched the O's first no-hitter, as a starter in 1959.

How many of the 59 total 2008 victories will the closer get?
Prediction as stands: 59-103

Why not, if we are looking 2-3 years down the line, sign Dotel to a 3 year $6M deal (or 2 w/ club option) and let him close till Ray is healthy, and then compete for setup role when Ray is back? It doesn't seem like such a bad thing to have a decent/experienced pitcher in the bullpen- he may not be Mariano/Gagne/Hoffman et all, but he isn't Baez, either.

ROB B - I have thought about trying DCab as a closer, too.

The only things that make me not want to are the walks and their affect on him (if he gets behind 2 - 0 or 2 - 1 he has a tendency to start to aim the ball) and the reputation he has of being too hard on himself. A closer has to forget about the last pitch he just threw and move on.

Still, with his size and power, it would be something if he could do it!

- Sendy Rleal has a 9.82 ERA in 3.2 IP with 1K in the Venezuelan league.

If I see any of "Sendy Him Back to AA" Rleal this season, I am becoming a Red Sox fan.

Matt R - great stats - thanks.

People say DCab is the last person you want as a closer, since we've seen him breakdown under pressure. I think there's another side to it, however. Those breakdowns often come the 3rd or 4th time thru the lineup. If he only pitched to 2 or 3 hitters he'd be hard to catch up with. Also, while we all know both his up-side and down-side in the rotation, and the hole it would create if he was deployed as closer, it must be admitted that he seems unlikely to realize his considerable potential as a starter for the O's. So, worth a try, at least as a hot stove league fantasy.

I also like the idea of paying Corey for walking. I think intermittent reinforcement has been shown to be most effective in shaping behavior. Rather than $1M/100W, what about distributing that $1M along a progressive scale - $10K/2W, with bonuses at milestones such as 25W, 50W, 75W, 100W.

's' is for silly.

BLS,

I agree with your modification on the past problems, although the past 10 years can be boiled down to:

Orioles spend too much money on mediocre players.

Dotel I believe falls into that category. I feel the team would be much better served putting someone on hand into that role.
-m

mojito - The closer doesn't get victories he preserves them.

Look at 2007 - Ray blew 4 games early at a time when wins could have made a HUGE difference in the season - not that the O's would have made the post-season, but what about .500? It set a tone for the season. The team stopped thinking Win!" and started thinking "How is this one going to break down?"

When Ray started to get it together the O's made a run at .500. Ray got hurt and his replacements were beyond bad.

How many games did the bullpen cost the O's in 2007? Could they have won 75 - 77 games with a reliable closer? What would we be thinking about the team if they were 77 - 85?

If the bullpen saved just 80% of their opportunities it would have meant about 12 more wins. 12 more wins would have been 81 - 83.

If we had finished 81 - 83....

BLS - AMEN!!!!

I’ll add more to this discussion by saying that perhaps a young pitcher overwhelms everyone in spring training and could become the team’s closer. That would be a fantastic though unlikely development (and if you believe what MacPhail and Trembley, someone is going to have to be truly overwhelming if they are inexperienced). I’d still say sign someone like Dotel to share the duties at the outset or even be a backup. If this young pitcher is solid come July, Dotel makes a good trade chip.

In 2005, Chris Ray set himself up nicely to become the closer at the start of 2006 by pitching a solid 40+ innings in non-save situations. The 2008 O’s don’t have anyone who fits that profile after the 2007 season (someone who earned it after an impressive stint the previous year). The O‘s are in the unfortunate position of being in a rebuilding mode and having no one carrying over from the previous season as closer. Their two “real” closers, Baez and Ray, are both gone for 2008. Bradford and Walker, their two best veteran relievers, aren’t closers, and their value to the club, both in performance and trade value, is going to come from being late inning specialists/set-up guys.

The key is low cost, low commitment. Signing marginal players to costly long-term deals is stupid, and this team should avoid it. Signing them to one-year deals, though, isn’t a bad thing, and is something that even a rebuilding team will have to do to fill in some gaps.

I'm a big believer in closer by committee, particularly when you're talking about a team that doesn't have Rivera, Hoffman or Papelbon. Just go with the match ups and teach your relievers to be flexible. Three or four trusted relievers should be able to get you through 2-3 innings of late relief. We already have 2 in Bradford and Walker, and we have potential in Aquino, Hoey, Albers, Bierd and Sarfate. Don't waste money on a guy to call your "closer" when you could put the money into the draft and player development.

TNT already has a top-rated "Closer", so my recommendation is for the Os to trade B-Rob to TNT for Kyra Sedgwick, who does pretty well in that role, according to critics.

She'd probably do as well as anyone else.

S for simple solution.

Mojito tossed out a prediction for the 2008 O’s. It’s early because who knows who will be on this club come Opening Day, but I can’t resist. As the team stands right now, I say 65-97, fifth place. Ouch.

The 89 Orioles had a rookie closer named Greg Olson. As I recall, he did ok that year.

what do the O's need a closer for? how often are they going to be wining in the 9th inning?

Tejada's name leads the sports news on NYT. I'm glad he's not an Oriole (anymore).

Wouldn't it be wierd if Palmiero was telling the truth about the B12 shots?

's' is, of course, for steroids

It would be smart to give slugger Chris Shelton a look but I think the O's are content w/ Millar. Pardon me, I just puked a little.

Signing Dotel to a 1 yr deal kinda makes sense. Especially if we can move him at the deadline. If our young (hopefully Bedard-less) rotation does well, it is imperative to have a good stopper to keep their happieness / confidence up. W's give confidence!!

One of the O's main struggles over the past decade is poor drafting. But that's not limited to the players they draft, it includes accumulating additional draft picks when possible. If you sign Dotel to a 1-year deal, odds are good that you can get a compensatory draft pick in the 2009 draft. Meanwhile, guys like Hoey and Doyne will actually be given the time to develop that they need.

Jones, Triunfel, Tillman. If thats on the table and McPhail doesn't take it, I'm going to absoluetly lose it.

Roch need an update on the ravens,nobody ele answers their blog.Espn is reporting we've offered Garrett the job is that true

I thought Sarfate was supposed to be the dark horse in the closer race? What's the point of spending millions on someone to help make a losing team, lose less?

Sorry but I don't see the O's using Daniel Cabrera as a closer. He's got a great arm, but usually we only get two or three good innings out of him and then the rest is crap. I wouldn't rely on him closing out a game when his arm is a big question mark whenever he pitches.

What about Cherry or Hoey? I'm not a huge fan of Hoey, but wouldn't it be better and cheaper to try out our young pitchers rather than bring in some older has been relief pitcher? Plus there is always Burres or Olson if they don't get a spot on the rotation.

I don't care who gets it, just NO D-CAB PLEASE!

Roch If the next few years are going to be rebuilding years then the Orioles might as well give Aquino an audition to see if he can handle the job or groom someone else for the job. I don't see Dotel coming here if the Orioles ae going to be rebuilding unless he is desperate for a job.

Olson.... Roch did you say Olson... even in your wildest dreams you can come up with someone better than the nibbler.

To those of us on complained that MacPhail did not get enough for Tejada. Looks like we go rid of him just in time. We get 5 players they get one that may serve time. Nice nescTo those of us on complained that MacPhail did not get enough for Tejada. Looks like we go rid of him just in time, we get 5 players they get one that may serve time. That should be a nice distraction for the Astros’s this spring training.

With the O’s luck of late it is amazing this was not announced just before a proposed deal was finalized. Maybe the curse of Davey Johnson or Miller or the punk Jeffrey Maur is finally lifting.

To those of us on complained that MacPhail did not get enough for Tejada. Looks like we go rid of him just in time. We get 5 players they get one that may serve time. Nice nescTo those of us on complained that MacPhail did not get enough for Tejada. Looks like we go rid of him just in time, we get 5 players they get one that may serve time. That should be a nice distraction for the Astros’s this spring training.

With the O’s luck of late it is amazing this was not announced just before a proposed deal was finalized. Maybe the curse of Davey Johnson or Miller or the punk Jeffrey Maur is finally lifting.

Matt R knows his stuff. Salazar did play 2nd this winter. Peter A's step son probably can't be traded for any worth after he used the needle [ once ] [ not.] What a dumb bo multi -millionaire. guess Gibbons gets his million or so even though he juiced. It's nice to work for Peter [ the great ] Who makes billions getting money for asbestoes victims. Bet you didn't know he also sues asbestoes company's for millions and wins for the [wives] of dead asbestoes victims.I've testifyed after being coached by his lawyers. Sad but true. It's on the record. Don't wack me Pete.

any chance of bringing back stu miller to close.

Wow, the fact that fans are supporting a journeyman like Dotel shows how desperate things have become in Birdland. It's not like this guy is another Trevor Hoffman, not to mention his numerous injuries and the fact that he has bounced around the teams like a ping pong ball.
Cabrera closing makes about as much sense. He can't get the ball over on a consistent basis, even in warmups yet bring him in pressure situations and expect him to throw strikes?
I disagree with those who are worried about damaging young pitchers fragile psyches. If these guys can throw strikes and have been pitching in relief in the minors, why not give them a chance? If they fail, they should learn from it.Isn't what any player wants-an opportunity? The Yanks and RedSox weren't afraid of bringing up young pitchers in the heat of a pennant race, yet we are worried?
As far as the adverse effect 'poor closing' will have on our young starters, I think the damage will be greater by not giving them enough offense. Forget about pitching and get a few decent bats or these young starters are going to lose a lot of 2-1, 3-2 games.

the last thing we need to do is pay big bucks for a closer. am i wrong or does the closer mostly pitch when you are winning a close game in the 9th inning? we didn't need one last year and we won't this year, either.......

"Well isn't this EXACTLY what they did with Ray???? Hopefully they learned from that ,but I doubt it."

No, it isn't. Chris Ray was the set up man to B.J. Ryan before becoming the closer a year later.

Also, the Orioles were supposedly in talks with the Dodgers about a Bedard deal and supposedly were interested in getting Jon Broxton back. He isn't a closer now, but it is thought that he is the closer in waiting once Saito is done.

Everyone is worried about a youngster potentially blowing the lead, or Aquino not panning out. Well, what has Dotel done in the recent past that makes you think he is any better of an option? He blew out his arm in 2005, and he hasn't pitched more than 30 innings in 2006 or 2007. Who is to say that he stays healthy, and even if he does that he performs at any high level?

Dotel would be a nice luxury to have, but this team needs guys in the field. CF is looking terrible if Payton is the leading candidate for the job, followed by Redman, Roberson, and Tererro. SS is also looking abysmal.

Instead of Patterson, I would like Kenny Lofton for CF. You could bat him second instead of Mora, still get a good average out of him, stolen bases, and good defense. You just need to make sure you can give him about 20 games off during the season. That allows you to spot Payton and keep him moderately happy, while he could also plattoon with Luke Scott in LF a bit. I just don't like Corey Patterson's game. Talented guy, but just doesn't have an idea of how to use all that talent. Also is prone to mental lapses in the OF.

"s" is for saves, as in, who cares who gets them, there won't be many opportunities for them anyway in 2008.

Actually, Roch...at least one of your readers is VERY bummed that it was Andrew Bynum...I'm just hoping this doesn't derail the most promising Lakers season in years.

Having somehow survived the Orioles and Ravens seasons, the Lakers were providing a much-needed panacea to my shattered sports psyche...now it looks like it's back to watching Kobe chuck it up 40 times a game which, while quite entertaining, is a recipe for .500 ball overall...sigh.

As far as the O's go...while a consistent closer would be a nice thing to have--was Gregg Olson the last effective one on the roster?--I tend to agree with the many others who have pointed out that it should be one of the lower priorities for now.

Oh, and Paul in StL...I originated the "Pick a Fan to Pitch the Eighth" contest idea back in August, shortly before the 30-3 debacle...admittedly, not the most original thought, but just wanted to let ya know....

;-}

np: "Bigger Hole to Fill," the Hives

I agree with some earlier posts. We have a very young starting rotation and when they work their butt off for 7 or 8 innings just to see the Os blow the lead, it will have a big negative impact. It happened last year. You would see the starter get pulled and sit on the bench until they lost the lead....they would put the towel over their head and walk out of the dugout.

I would suggest concentrating on finding some bats to create a lead. If no lead exists in the 7,8.9 the closer's role becomes somewhat moot.

TOM D - Excellent post! I agree wholeheartedly, go with Sarfate...I think he may be the steal of this deal and judging by his winter statistics, he is keeping up what he did at the end of last year.

As much as it intrigues me about DCab being the closer, the walks would kill him (and, subsequentially, the starter as well).

Roch - Where does Arrieta seem to be starting at, Bowie?

Matt R,
J.R. House signed a minor league deal with Houston.

Kev

yo matt r

Sendy Rleal, Alberto Castillo, JR House dont play for the O's any more

What about Bob Wickman as closer, he's better than Dotel

I think the orioles should leave the back of rotation and bullpen to the youngsters.. they have piled up several hard throwers and good rotation prospects. They need tosit them all down and lay it on the line if they pitch like they did in the minors they will stay if not someone else will be waiting for a chance..This is the year to find out..

Roch,
I have followed the Orioles since 1977. I have seen the parade of GM's come and go over those years. I am starting to form the opinion that Mr. MacPhail has problems pulling the strings on moving the organization forward. Yes he has identified the problems and the need to rebuild, but no matter how you slice it, we are a last place team in the AL East this year. If down the line the media outlets are correct with what has been offered for Bedard, and he was unable to pull the strings, he is nothing more then an extension of our previous GM regime. One has to remember, Mr. MacPhail is a hand picked GM from Mr Angelos himself. And he would not have picked him if he didnt feel he was a "do as I say" not as you think type individual. This offseason is turning into nothing more then another year in the book where the organization just flounders. The Oriole Way and Magic will re-emerge when our owner sells.

Knowing Angelos, he's probably contacting Eddie Watt.

Guys,

In my opinion it is not a question whether the Orioles need a closer, but a question of do the rebuilding and much younger Orioles players need to see improvements/progress (in the form of more wins, the chances of which being greatly increased if we stop blowing 7th, 8th, and 9th inning leads). The Marlins of last year and even several years ago, a team which everyone predicted to suck suck suck did manage to surprise a lot of people by winning a lot more than they should have. In my opinion, they were also in a rebuilding process and while they did have far more talent offensively than the Orioles currently have, there is one thing I noticed with those two Marlins teams that I want to notice with this Orioles team which is rebuilding. The Marlins had a veteran closer both years who did a solid job holding the late leads that the young kids managed to produce. If I was the Orioles I would try my best not to damage the team's psyche early in the season. If these young Orioles can manufacture runs and stay in the game, and a veteran closer/or late inning reliever holds the lead = more wins for a youthful team, I see that only helping in the rebuilding process because the young guys' psyche would benefit from the wins (as opposed to the damage the team psyche may have with 105+ losses). I am probably rambling right now, but I want to see the hard work pay off for these kids. I know these kids can string together more wins than we can predict, but what we need to accomplish that is someone who can hold a 7th, 8th, 9th inning lead. This is why we need as much veteran presence in the bullpen to aid in the development of our young pitching (they want to see their 7 IP gems translate into wins damn it). With the veteran presence that means we wont have to keep throwing Bradford and Walker out of their roles, and that would mean they could find their comfort zone -> produce on the field -> increase their trade value, and MacPhail can trade them for 8 prospects before they are mentioned in the Mitchell Report. Sorry to ramble guys!

In order to "blow" a lead, a team must have the lead in the first place. I doubt very seriously that this team will have many leads to save. Perhaps mother nature will be our closer. If we have a lead by the 7th, maybe if we all pray, we will be blessed with torrential rains necessitating the game to be called.

I think we need quality starters instead of worrying about a closer. Personally I hate the idea of throwing a closer in as much as the Orioles do. So many loses last season went to lack luster closers. We would have been near 80 wins if closers hadn't been brought in so much. Get some common sense.

Is there anything going on at the Warehouse? I thought this was going to be an offseason where we get younger and try to compete in 2010. I don't really see any of that going on. Any news on anything Roch?

Roch - can you hook up a 25-word limit for blog comments?

where's willis roberts when you need him?

Yea Roch, let's have 25-word limits. it makes sense when you analyze to be as succinct as possible. We don't need to elaborate because that would mean we may actually give a rats.

We could use a closer, because I think we have a chance to mimic what last year's Marlins did. We have their pitching coach, a young staff with potential, and our offense could surprise. With that said, I think we will have many leads in the 6th+ innings, so a veteran closer who does not blow every save opportunity might be a good idea. Let's build confidence and hold as many late leads as possible while analyzing what we have. Go O's. Was that 25 words? :)

Dave T. - You would be under the limit and, thus, blocked from posting. :-)

Be careful what you ask for! You just might get it. Then all of the posts will be the guys with something to say...

Hey, you might be on to something!

It doesn't matter right now. Someone will emerge who can do the job. The biggest problem right now is the fact that Payton is still on the roster. If the team is trying to improve for future seasons, how can they possibly justify playing Payton (sub .300 OBP, terrible defense, bad attitude) at all? Develop a young guy in his place right now, or stop lying to us about the "plan".

Tom D - what is it you do that you can comment with such frequency and length? Pro blog commenter? How does one get that job?

Maybe Don Stanhouse is available...

I like Patterson back in center field. I dont understand why we are giving up on him yet we are still being patient with D Cabrera. At the very least we get great defense in center from Patterson, at the most we get 40 to 50 stolen bases and maybe he grows a little more and becomes a more patient hitter. The guy is an athlete and I feel that we should give him a little more time to reach his potential. I really think he could become a perenial 20 home run guy. Think about it 20 home runs, great defense, 45 stolen bases....why not...? Even if he only hits 270 every time he gets on base he is a real threat to steal which not only moves us up a base but plays serious games with the pitchers head.

it appears that with these guys they will have to go by committee.

Go with the hot hand (if we ever get one).

Hey Tom...Just one problem with your "lengthy" post earlier....81-83 with 12 improved games....Since when did MLB switch to 164 game schedule...

Just wondering

Tom D,

Thoughts on the Tejada trade now in light of recent developments re: possible Fed investigation for lying to investigators?

We blew it, we had a chance to get Adam Jones but McPhail didnt have the guts to pull the trigger. Bedard is leaving Baltimore one way or another, his value is very high right now. Should have made the move. Duh

I think we need all the expeirenced BP arms we can get to take the pressure off the rotation and the kids.

there had better be improvement in 3 years (if the kids jell) or markakis will be outta here too!

The time frame is 3 years to rebuild, so Bedard /Roberts have to go... Now!

Since Gregg Olson, the Orioles have had Randy Myers, Lee Smith, and B.J. Ryan as pretty effective closers.

"p" is for pitching, defense, and the 3 run homer.

The current Orioles have no pitching, not enough defense to matter, and a lineup that may not even sport a 20HR hitter.

Roch, so much is said about young guys closing. Was Ray a wiley old veteran? Question on Tejada deal. Any chance that Houston comes back to the Birds and asks for something else or worse negates the deal. We got screwed on Davis deal but at least he played temporarily. Tejada may only play inside the walls . Sorry to hear about his brother. Guy is really getting dumped on