I'm starting to feel ill over this. With the Indians and now maybe the Reds coming out here for Spring Training, I may finally have to cut my emotional ties with the team I've followed as long as I can remember.

Well said Roch.

I just want this nightmare to be over, one way or another, so we can get the next nightmare (the season) started.

Well said here Roch, and I agree with you 110%. The deal has to get done and let's hope something happens in a positive manner. This franchise doesn't need more negativity.

Dead on Roch. If it does turn out that Angelos crossed MacPhail I hope MacPhail gets a box, packs his stuff and does one final press conference outside the warehouse to confirrm fans suspicions that Angelos believes he can run the team and walks out. MacPhail doesn't need to be here. Here is hoping that if Angelos did kill this then Andy will follow through on his June 20th comments and just walk away.

Good points, Roch. I hope MacPhail is trying to push Angelos with the same thoughts.

Roch. I don't care if Bedard likes pitching for Baltimore or not. If we traded everyone that was unhappy, we'd have trouble fielding a team!
If this trade doesn't get done, it's not all gloom and doom. We still have a quality pitcher and who knows what Jones will do anyway? He might be Andruw Jones or Lynn Jones. The other guys aren't anything special and we don't rebuild around lefty specialists like Sherill.
Seattle understandably wants to make this deal but if they are dreaming if they think they are only one starter away from contending.
As far as going through with this trade just to salvage the O's reputation, a question the wisdom of that as the O's are already MLB's favourite whipping boy(especially media cynic Rosenthal) so that shouldn't even factor into the 'deal or no deal.'

Excellent dose of sanity Roch. I guess the real question is, do the Mariners feel that this will still get done, or are they now seriously exploring other option that might leave us holding the bag?

Thanks Roch. I think you are on it here. No one from either organization is saying that Angelos nixed the deal. Now, we may find out later that that was true. But we can't just believe Rosenthal's or anybody else's "sources" at this point.

Hopefully they are still talking.

Ken Rosenthal mentioned one of many options that discussed that the O's are furious at the M's for letting the trade details leak to the public, and now could be pushing for Triunfel to be included in the deal. Could such a thing be possible Roch? I guess I'm asking because I personally would love to see Triunfel included in the deal.

Trade Him, for all the reasons Roch said.

So we lose 12-18 more games without Bedard, who cares. Keeping him hurts the future, especially if he walks and we get nothing. The closer he gets to being a FA, the less teams will offer in a trade cause they know he "have" to trade him.

Now is the TIME!!

Somebody make it happen. (see Wieters deal)

Most of the articles I've read regarding the rumored trade contain similar information. The Everett (WA) Herald lists what is supposedly the entire trade package:

http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20080129/SPORTS/429395267/1009/SPORTS07#Deal.with.Orioles.for.Bedard.may.be.off

Well said Roch! I sense you're a little frustrated too! You probably meant, "where they'll finish in 2008" not 2009, but I understood what you were saying.

This needs to get done this week. Obviously Seattle felt they had a deal, or were 99% close to a deal. They pulled Jones from the FINALS, they agreed to terms with Brad Wilkerson to replace Adam Jones, pending the trade. They wouldn't do those things if they weren't pretty certain they had Bedard.

I don't believe this is PA's meddling, especially since no one from the Seattle FO ever said a deal was done. But with all these fans hanging on every piece of news, or should I say "speculation", that they hear, there will be a riot if this deal doesn't go down.

Well, if the Orioles organization did not achieve this title before, recent events have now solidified their position as the laughingstock of baseball.

Congratulations Mr. Angelos!

Roch... can we throw in Angelos and get this deal done!

Peter is becoming more and more like the Owner of the Indians in Major League. Let's see how many ways he can drive away the fans who care.

I wish it was easy to turn off caring, and to actually switch teams.

re: "how will Bedard feel..."

not so bad actually

IMO, his recent indication that he'd consider an extension conveys his understanding of the impact of the O's justified perception of an "i want out" attitude.

I agree about trading Bedard for prospects. Especially at this point, it needs to be done. Jeremy Guthrie is ready to become the undisputed ace and #1 starter going forward.

As an Orioles fan this is extremely embarrassing and frustrating to see this much disarray, confusion, and ineptitude relating to the abilities to successfully pull off a trade relative to a player that has been involved in trade discussions for months. Personally I would like to see the trade "tweaked" to include Truinfel instead of a bunch of throw in pitchers to go w/Adam Jones, even if it means packaging A. Huff or L. Scott to get Truinfel to Baltimore. But the deal cannot be vetoed. There's enough damage being done by the current stalemate that has occurred. The youth/rebuilding movement has already begun and needs to continue. If the deal is vetoed then;
a.) McPhail might as well quit now.
b.) O's fans might as well pick another team to follow until Angelos sells.
c.) The O's organization should accept being the laughing stock of baseball.

R is for Respect that has been lost
R is for Reputation that has been tarnished

Roch, more solid points. You’re doing a great job covering this craziness. Unless the O’s do extend Bedard, they need to deal him. And if they do extend him, which seems severely unlikely, they need to be prepared to do other things to make this team a winner sooner rather than later. That seems like a mighty task, considering that the offseason dealing time is about 90% over and the fact that they have a long way to go. But extending Bedard, if it were to happen, can’t be like signing Miguel Tejada years back—a big splash, then nothing. They need to be aggressive to make sure that they field a winning team around the big investment they will make.

The problem with waiting until the deadline is one I’ve addressed when the Dodgers trade rumors surfaced. The players that we’re targeting (back then, Kemp, Loney, Broxton, now Jones) will most likely be helping their team contend, and that team isn’t going to deal essential pieces but rather prospects that aren’t in the majors yet. If Jones is having a solid season by July, why would the Mariners deal him? I’m sure they could find another pitcher on another team that will accept players further down in the system.

And you’ve got it right about the organization reputation. Yes, Angelos may have turned out to be right in some of his past decisions. But it’s more about the meddling and the atmosphere within the franchise that influences what does and doesn’t happen that’s important here, and other GMs will have no respect for MacPhail. If it’s revealed that Angelos nixed a deal, you can bet other teams will laugh and go elsewhere looking for trading partners. If this is the case, why would any other team go through the work of dealing with the O’s just to be foiled in the end?

First , I'll deal with the garbage....

Tom D, from last night....

Brian - Oh so original. And clever, too. It only took you about 4 hours to think that one up. Except, if you can remember, we went through this last summer. So it is just a copy of a lame insult. Wow.

Why have your shorts in a knot? All I said was it was a little on the insensitive side to be upset that Angelos wouldn't drop his family matter to fret about the Bedard trade. Maybe there is something more important?

You have no idea what his family matter was but you have to respect a man who says "Don't bother me, this is my family time." Even if the issue is the all important trade of Eric Bedard.

(Hey, you think the fighting stopped in Iraq while they wait for word?)

My point, which you clearly missed, is that PA doesn't deserve this level of devotion from you, does he?

PS - I also said that PA was the reason the O's are in a situation where they feel they have to trade 2 of their top players to get competitive again and have said numerous times that PA is an arrogant, self-centered man - some PR, huh?

Meanwhile, if Angelos was incommunicado Monday how could he have killed a deal? People are jumping to conclusions and getting themselves in frenzy over rumor and assumption.

Clark Clifford said "It is always wrong, everywhere, and for anyone, to believe anything upon insufficient evidence." Right now the only evidence we have is the unreliable Ken Rosenthall and the professional Angelos bashers, ESPN. Why don’t we wait to see what happens?

By the way, if the trade goes through are all of the finger pointers going to start posting your praise of Angelos? Or is this just another reason to slam him?

Angelos screws up enough that you don't have to try this hard. Really.

Posted by: TOM D | January 29, 2008 1:38 AM

4 hours? Maybe 4 min. I can assure you I was not on here all day & night & was not pondering your comments or thinking up responses. Are you for real?
We went through this last summer? Now there is a very interesting comment. I don't recall getting into anything with you last summer. I have watched with amusement when you have "Gotten into it" with others here though. Now, UNLESS you ARE G of E ,as some of us have thought then you may be correct. He is the only jerk I have encountered on here, until now.... maybe you are one in the same? I did find it very hard to believe that self annointed expert & know-it-all could so easily vanish. However, he was so universally despised here I can see him returning under a diff. user name. Maybe you have slipped up here?
You didn't call me insensitive. I believe I was losing it as you said.
potter didn't say he had a family matter, he just said he was unavailable. How do you know it's a family matter? Do you know more than anyone else? I know you think so, but.... I say he was chasing ambulances like the pre asbestos days.
The Iraq comparison is not even worthy of comment.
The various posters on the last thread who retorted to your line of thinking from this post I copied speak for me too. They may very valid pts about what is possibly going down & how, etc. They also made good pts about the trade & how dysfunctional all of this is & appears to be, no matter his reason for the delays.

Roch, I have to disagree about the need to trade Bedolt now. The circumstances & needs of several teams will change by mid seaon & probably in the O's favor. More than one team will be in need of a top starter then for instance. Slight panic of falling just a few games short of the playoffs will be a factor too. Jones is really the only piece they get now & he seems to have mixed reviews, not sure thing reviews. They one thing that really worries me about him is that he was a SS right? They moved him to CF. Most SURE thing prospects don't make drastic position switches at a late stage, as in AA AAA. From 2B to SS, or SS to 3B etc is one thing, but INf to OF... that concerns me. It happens ,but not very often. His plate patience is another concern.Sure Bedolt could blow up his arm, strain an oblique, etc, but it's worth the gamble. I say keep him vs taking the underwhelming names from the Ms. The variables will change mid year, but that could be a good thing. As for Bedolt being upset or annoyed.... SO WHAT? He wasn't exactly Mr Happy when things were going well , now was he? The team's rep on doing trades? Could that get any worse?

Like Wayward O said: the intenets is getting ahead of itself.

Orioles nation is in full grips of PGA paranoia and I got sucked in myself yesterday. Let's all try and take it easy - this deal isn't dead yet, and any PGA speculation is coming from ESPN, Rosenthal (who loves PGA speculation), et al. Let this thing play out over the week and then we can have a big freakout if nothing happens. For now, none of us know anything.

R is for Ready for an influx of young talent!

Isn't possible that PA is a busy man and since he probably wasn't handed the deal until, at the earliest, late Sunday, won't give an answer until today? Everyone should just chill.

TerryP, I just read your 10:15 am post, I could NOT agree more....

IF they can get a position prospect like the young SS instead of another iffy arm prospect, then that deal looks better. Forget Clement too.

Roch, That was written about as good as it can be said.....just hope the O's see it the same way as you and lots of us long time O's fans. Great article.

I hate to say it because I've been all for this trade, but after seeing the "other" pieces of this deal after Jones, I'd rather wait until the trade deadline and take our chances.

Sure Tillman may be good, but he's a long ways off. Sherrill will be later into his 30s by the time we are good so he's worthless to us, unless we trade him to the Braves for a not so good shortstop. Yippee!

Than we get this 6'9 reliever...if he's 6'9 and a reliever in the minors that means he's not any good as a starter. Than we get Tony Butler who was rated as a 2 star prospect so not much potential there.

So I see only one decent piece of this trade with Jones. To not get Triunfel, Clement, or Morrow in this trade as well seems to be like a desperation move on our part.

Angelos was right in nixing the Brian Roberts to Atlanta trade last year. He was right in nixing a Blue Jays trade this year, because its the Blue Jays and their prospects arent as strong and Holliday and Rios are too old for a rebuilding team.

Now I agree with everyone else that Angelos has destroyed this team. But if he nixed this trade, I wouldn't be too upset. I look at what Haren got from the Diamondbacks. I look at what Garza got from the Devil Rays and I see us getting shafted. Delmon Young was traded for Matt Garza and we are getting Adam Jones and scrap. Haren was traded for STRONG prospects from the Diamondbacks. Not one good one but a few.

The M's are just hoping the O's get pressured in to making this deal.

FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal believes the Orioles may be upset enough about Adam Jones' comments on the deal to call off the Erik Bedard trade or at least seek additional compensation.
Yeah, there's good reason the Orioles remain in the running for the title of worst run organization in baseball. Either the deal is good enough or it isn't. Who cares if Jones admitted 12 hours ahead of time that he was going to Baltimore for a physical? If Peter Angelos kills the deal as is -- it's believed to currently be a five-for-one including Jones, George Sherrill, Chris Tillman, Adam Butler and Kam Mickolio -- the Mariners should simply move on. Rosenthal believes the Orioles may now be holding out for Carlos Triunfel, who should be untouchable. Jan. 29 - 3:27 am et

All I can say is that if this deal does indeed collapse, and so far that is all just rumor, and it does turn out to be because Angelos nixed the deal, the McPhail should just resign the next day. The fans will no longer believe anything he says, the other clubs will not deal with him, except for minor deals that mean nothing, and soon enough the Orioles franchise will fold up and blow away because they can't keep going with only Yankee and Sox fans coming to the games.

Sorry your job has so much frustration, Roch! It'd be nice if you were covering an organization that handled deals smoothly so you could report on them and weigh in with your opinions.

I love Bedard, and would love to keep him long term. But even I feel this complete mess has made that infeasible. Jones is a better OF prospect than anyone the Orioles have had in the past ten years, with the possible exception of Markakis (making that statement based on minor league performance and scouting; no question Markakis is currently a lot more valuable than Jones). While I don't think acquiring a middle reliever should ever be a critical part of any deal, our set-up crew with Sherril could be darned good (Walker/Sherril from the left, Bradford/Sarfate from the right; each a nice pairing of a finesse guy and a power guy). If we could get a good prospect or two included, and send them Payton and cash along with Bedard, I consider that a fair deal that's good for both sides. I wish it'd happen rather than continuing to read about rumors!

So much for MacPhail having any real authority. If Angelos in fact vetoes this deal MacPhail should walk because it's clear he'll never be able to get anything done. And Bedard will end up walking away as a free agent. I've yet to see Bedard show he wants to be a part of building a winner here, so trade him while we can get some real value for him.

As heard from the Warehouse:

"Awwww... the waiting game sucks. Let's play Hungry Hungry Hippos.

--Apologies to Homer Simpson

what happens in the warehouse, stays i the warehouse.

our FO is worse then a bender trip to las vegas. in fact i could probably organize a better trip to vegas to forget about this mess. who's in?

roch is the only writer that makes sense, espn and fox are all about jumping on the "nix" bandwagon.

i just hope if Andy DOES have full control, then he pulls the trigger. otherwise, i do hope he gets double pi**ed and leaves if this does get foiled by above.

it is frustrating. and whats not to say that guthrie wins 15 with being healthy all year? and another kid steps up and IS the NEXT guthrie? and perhaps DCab has worked out his issues and has 200K's (and less walks) next year? and adam jones has breakout year, with some plate discipline...

all very optimistic i know, but it could happen..

thats what i'm hoping for... but first this has to bet completed!

R is for Roch. the one and only.

Bedard is a humongously valuable commodity right now. He's as reliable, cheap, and controllable a pitcher as any in the game not named Santana. As such, we really should be getting a serious package of marquis prospects for him. Adam Jones may be nice, but these other guys are B- and C-level prospects plus a reliever who's only going to be around for a year. (Although he may net another B-level prospect around the trading deadline from a contending team.) I'm all for trading Erik, and I agree that his value may dip somewhat once the season starts, but Adam Jones plus junk is about as risky as just keeping Bedard until later. We need to get more for him.

Roch,

Your absolutely right, this is why you are the writer and I do.............. well, whatever it is that I do. I agree 100%

Well blogged Roch-O. You are 100% on with this one!!!

This is the same old Oriole BS.. turning a mole hill into a mountain. Either deal or no deal... It doesn't take a rocket scientist to say yes or no. Bavasi should tell MacPhail here's what I'm offering. You have 24 hours, otherwise the phone lines are dead.

roch this is my 1st post.I 1st want to thank you for giving your honest opion on this matter.if this deal does not happen because of angelos.I will become a nationals fan till he sells the team.i no longer want to be a fan of a team who's owner cant let his baseball men make the decision's that need to be made to no longer be a loser.I have been a fan for 30 yrs.the last 10 have been the worst since my borther is a red sox fan.you cant imagine how hard that is.there is nothing i can say to him that makes me feel good about being an oriole fan .nothing.again roch thanks for doing the blog i read it everyday hoping that i will someday have something to say to my brother that actually makes me feel proud to be an oriole.

Here, here, Roch! Excellent post!!

A no-trade here signifies what we all knew but hoped was not true....

Peter Angelos is the worst owner in baseball...

It has become clear that no one can fix this team with him in place

Right on, Roch. IF Angelose is the reason this trade is cancelled then he is the dumbest business man in the world. Listen to your customers, Pete. Almost every blogger here has said we'll watch a new team lose 100, but not the same old team lose 90. Those footsteps you hear, Pete? The Nationals creeping up on the Orioles' weary fan base. They already have a team in Hagerstown. They also have a plan.

"r" is for Right on, Roch!

This is maddening!!!!! I so want to be a devoted fan again but the stupid decisions keep pushing me away. I want the Baltimore Orioles back. I respect Angelos wanting to put a good product on the field but what good is a great pitcher on a last place team. If we trade him, we may be good by the time he signs with his native Toronto in 2010 anyway, if he doesn’t get hurt before then. I like Bedard but he is not the gritty pitcher who wants to stay in ball games to win. He left the team 2 weeks before the end of the season last year because he was hurt. He did not sit on the bench to support his teammates.

If Angelos does not approve this deal, MacPhail should quit. I know Angelos is older but he needs to listen to the fans in the seats, not just the corporations that sponsor his team. The team, the attendance and the marketing of this team is embarrassing!!!! Let MacPhail do his job.

If it comes out that Angelos vetoed this trade I will officially be done with the Orioles until he dies.

I respectfully but totally disagree with you, Roch. I don't think there is any urgency to complete this deal now. I think McPhail is holding out because he knows he's in a superior position: you don't trade away a dominant 28 year-old lefthander, who comes at a comparably cheap price, who probably would have won at least 18 games if playing for team with a consistent offense just because the Mariners seem to be interested and they have one player who seems like *maybe* he'll be good in a few years.

When commenting on the issue, we've heard McPhail say that he wouldn't trade away any of the Orioles young pitching talent unless he was absolutely certain that the return would outweigh the expense. If this trade is basically for Adam Jones, a promising but completley unproven player, and George Sherril, a solid bullpen pitcher, then I don't think the Orioles are getting enough in return.

I think the way McPhail is playing this is exactly correct. If you are going to complete a trade with Mariners, let them know they won't be getting Bedard unless they overwhelm you with talent (include Morrow, Triunfel, etc.). If the Mariners break the bank, then fine, make the trade. But don't trade Bedard just for the sake of doing it. In today's insane free agent market, there will be PLENTY of suitors for Bedard at the trading deadline. And while it is possible that Jones won't be available, it's equally possible that another team with a chance of making the postseason would enter the bidding at the trading deadline, which gives us even more options.

If we trade away our best player, then we ought to be getting back something very valuable in return. You'll have to excuse me for breaking rank, but Jones, Sherrill + 1 TBD doesn't do it for me.

I am going to add nothing to the discussion, because I agree 100% with everything that Roch said...GET IT DONE PLEASE. And if Angeloes nixes it, Andy should leave and the fan base should seriously consider buying tickets... I honestly can't belive I am saying it, but that would probably be the last straw for me.

Unfortunately this is one thing Baltimore and Washington can share - a horrible owner. Angelos and Snyder need to set up a budget, hire a President and GM and LET them do the job for 3-5 yrs and then evaluate them.
Neither guy will ever change so it will go on and on.

Rich

All this hysteria is comical. "Ill" over this? Get a life. If the media didn't have to find something to write multiple times a day we would all find out about the trade when it was really done, or there would be no trade and we would all be hoping they will sign Bedard and would be rooting hard for him to throw up goose eggs on Opening Day. If you read these press accounts, they are all essentially quoting each other's speculation or accounts from unnamed sources. News men, making the news. No one has provided any credible basis to conclude Angelos nixed anything and no way to know now if the trade's completion is a litmus test on McPhail's authority--he may not have wanted to make the deal. R is for Relax and see what happens.

When Boston's GM Theo Epstein held a press conference when he returned as the Red Sox GM he was asked about his authority to make trades. He said he had to get ownership approval on any trade and that was the way it was done throughout the ML's.

Oriole fans have this notion that the owner should just hire baseball people and then get out of the way.

The fact is if these same Oriole fans were a team owner, they would be in the dugout during games telling the manager what to do. But they expect ML owners to write the checks and stay out of the baseball operations.

Bedard, RHP free agent, Loewen, Guthrie, Patton/Liz is a much more formidable pitching staff than unproven guys across the board. This is not the no-brainer people make it out to be. Sure, it saves money, but I thought there was a promise to spend MORE money not so long ago. Do you think if the Yankees or Red Sox thought it was better to build up prospects and not spend $200 million at the same time, that they wouldn't do it? I am glad we are all satisfied with table scraps--unfortunately, we aren't even getting those. And, yes, I understand the theory that we need position players, but aren't solid positional players easier to come by for cash than pitchers (see Gil Meche or Carlos Silva)? It just all seems convenient that after years of foolish financial decisions and a medium (but profitable) payroll, it is now time to slash payroll. As long as we are getting younger and holding onto prospects, who cares if we spend lots of money while holding onto pieces that are part of the future?

I think we have so few chips to play in the trade market that we have to move at the right time and get back the most we can.

With Tejada'a value at the time and with the Mitchell Report hanging over his head I think the O's did well in that deal.

I trust MacPhail's judgement on talent more than mine, of course, but it doesn't seem we're getting enough if the names being thrown around in the Bedard deal are accurate.

I want Jones, Seattle's #2 or #3 prospect and a few more youngsters. Maybe that's unrealistic, but a guy who's pretty much a sure major leaguer and maybe a star doesn't seem to be enough for our ace.

The O's are so tough to get excited about anymore. Angelos has drained us all once again after dragging the team down to a level not seen since the '54 O's lost 100 games. This is getting old and this insanely controlling man has to see what he is doing to the town sports psyche. Peter .. GO AWAY!!!

Sorry Mr. Bavasi- NO TRADE!
Bedard is a bonifide young left handed premier starting pitcher. He will be #1 in your rotation. There is nothing about his skills that are maybe or potential. You need to give up more. Jones is a good start, but unless ou throw in a prized 17 yr old ss and a pitcher named Marrow. Go Fish!

Switching gears.... funny stuff too. This was on TMZ last night. Go to their site & you can see the video. MORE notorious, infamous behavior for an ex O. THANFULLY , the one shot they had of him as a ballplayer he was in his Cleveland Indians uniform.... thank GOD, TMJ took mercy on the O's.

This is the text of the story but you have to see the video clip. The entire staff is listening to the story, laughing & mocking Brady. He texted the girl, they show the content, plus he texted a naked pic of his body to her, they show that too. He has to cruise internet websites to get lai.... ?? Brady Anderson is on match.com? LOL. Also, the girl's face was blocked but from what I could see Brady could be her father.

Here it is.... on TMZ.com

He was one of the hottest studs in baseball -- but now Brady Anderson has resorted to trolling online dating sites for the ladies!
Brady Anderson: Click to watch
A TMZ's staffer's friend hooked up with the former Oriole ... check out her hilarious story from TMZ TV.

I'll be honest. I don't like the deal as it currently sits. I think you Triunfel, Morrow or Clement in addition to Jones for Bedard. I think the O's are wise to wait.

Rick
Besides all of the bull about Bedard.
How about the Orioles drop the individual names from the uniforms, and play as a team? Or even, Heaven forbide put Baltimore back on the jerseys! Nobody but people in Baltimore could possibly care what they are called or where they are from at this point.

The best idea I've seen was organizing a Vegas trip to drown our Oriole sorrow. I'm already going to be out there next week and I cant wait to see what the odds are for the Orioles winning the WS. Maybe if I'm drunk enough I'll put down a few bucks for what I'm sure will be 1,000,000 to 1 odds!

What is this about Stan the Fan speculating that Adam Jones may have a degenerative hip condition?

Just keeps getting weirder.

Z is for zzzzzzzz

Roch,although I usually agree with you,I have to weigh in with a slightly different point of view.While I have never been a huge Bedard fan,mostly because of his attitude ,not his ability,if Napoleon the Greek nixes this trade then it's time I pick someone else to root for.Not because I think it's such a great trade,I don't,I think we aren't getting near enough in return,but because it means the Big A is still his same dysfunctional,meddlesome self.If that's the case McPhail needs to walk.I'd close with go O's,but if nothing changes we well may be looking up at Tampa Bay this year.

I agree with Jedd. This is not a good return for Bedard. I'm not so sure we couldn't get a better pacakge from the Reds, Indians, Mets or Dodgers. If it's bascially just Jones we're getting and a couple of on-building peices like Sherrill, maybe we go back to the Dodgers and just try to get something like Kemp-LaRoche. Tillman's struggling to put up a 5.00+ ERA at high A ball. He's light years away. I don't care if he is 19. Compare him to Matt Riley in A+ ball at 19.

Outside of Jones I am not at all impressed by what is being offered. And if it is just Jones, I'd rather have Kemp. If you can't get Kemp I'd prefer Votto-Cueto/Bailey from the Reds. If you can pry Martinez away from the Mets with Gomez you've got something there. If you can get Miller from the Indians and a couple of peices there. If you can get Wood and Adenhart from the Angels you've got something there, or Buckholtz or Hughes or McGowan . i just don't buy this is the best you can get.

I think the problem is fatigue is setting in to the fan base ,and people just want it over, whether its a bad deal or not. and this is a bad deal.

Can we count on McPhailure holding on to Roberts at this point???

What's this about a Jones degenerative hip condition? Stan the Fan from the Pressbox was speculating something.

I have been a lifelong O's fan, and always will be. However, I can only tolerate poor management and bad decisions for so long before I feel something needs to be done. As a fan I feel the simplest and most effective thing to do is vote with my wallet. If news comes out that Angelos has been meddling with the operations again, you can bet that I will be taking my money 45 minutes down I-95 to the shiny new Nationals stadium for my baseball fix until things are corrected.

Also, I totally agree with you Roch - seeing Bedard leave will be very painful, but it is something that needs to be done. He's at the peak of his value and we need to act on that.

Roch: There are rumors coming out that the O's saw something in medical reports concerning something with Adam Jones. Have you heard anything? I believe this was started by some small Baltimore Newspaper.

Os fans spar on blog.
We fight over Bedard trade.
Evil divides us.

We need each other.
We should bond together as
hard times are ahead.

(KEEP BEDARD!!!!) ;-)

Sign Bedard to an extention, then sign Teixiera in the offseason and the Orioles WILL be contending. What part of that do you people not understand?

The excuse that PA has to accept and that he is attending personal matters is inexcusable. Either McPhail has authority or not. If not, PA should have already given approval given the apparent discussion to date.
Personally, I was against the trade as I see Bedard as one of the top three or so young pitchers in the American, and was afraid after a trade he would be Cy Young like Schilling. However, Roch and others have convinced me - git er done.

Another view on the O's from Rob Neyer's ESPN chat earlier today:

Goatcheese McDougle (DC): What the heck is going on in Baltimore? Bedard is traded then he isn't. Roberts was traded then he wasn't. This is getting kind of ridiculous.

Rob Neyer: (12:04 PM ET ) Well, this winter brilliantly encapsulates the problem at the top that's made the O's sort of a joke franchise for roughly a decade now.

I'm not ready to indict Mr. Angelos just yet. Maybe SS Triunfel has not been included in the deal, and the Orioles have to get a SS and a second baseman in return, if they're also going to trade Roberts as well. Keep in mind that there are no promising prospects, in the system, at those two most important positions on the diamond. And no marqee SS and second baseman is entering the free agency either. And, yes, Orioles should think about sweetening the pot themseves to get what they want.

TO ALL.....Peter Angelos was in Mercy Hospital Monday having a procedure done. Let him wake up before you accuse him of vetoing the trade.

Ahhgg!!!!! Angelos is making become a Nats fan, and Snyder is making me become a Ravens fan.

Trade Bedard and Roberts now, get tons of prospects, and then sign one of them when they become free-agents and the team is in a better position.

Everyone wants instant gratification, but I see the need for some patience.

In the grand scheme of Orioles baseball, it does not matter whether this trade gets done today, tomorrow, or next week. The Orioles are dealing from a position of power. We have the proven commodity that Seattle needs to be a contender. They are the ones on the clock....not us. We are not going to contend if Bedard is traded, or if he stays. Therefore I would keep pushing and pushing to see what we can get.

We have an Ace LH Pitcher.....lets push the envelope. Lets make Seattle mortgage the future to land him. We have no reason not to leave every stone unturned. Remember...in the 08 reality of Orioles baseball we are the same with or without Bedard. As an O's fan, I am actually glad to see the pressure that is being put on Seattle.

For those of you that dont know. These are REAL negotiations, not that BS Sid Thrift stuff.

I say Seattle blinks first!

Roch, First time entry and I must say what a disappointing day. How do you not get this deal done? I mean with the guys we got from Houston coupled with the potential from Seattle and possibly the Cubs how can you not make these deals? I feel sorry for all of us fans... this is unbelieveable and a sad future is on the horizon.

Ken F _

"Sign Bedard to an extention, then sign Teixiera in the offseason and the Orioles WILL be contending. What part of that do you people not understand?"

The part where you think the Orioles have a prayer of signing Teixiera next year.

Roch,

Stan "the fan" Charles said the "complex" issue is that Jones has a degenerative hip condition, much like what sidelined Albert Belle. Are you hearing anything about this?

A lefty ace future Cy Young winner should garner more in return than a center field prospect and leftovers. We should try to sign Bedard long term during the next 5 months. Failing that, we should trade him at the deadline to a team desperate enough to mortgage their future for a playoff berth.

If this trade gets nixed and it turns out that Angelos is responsible I wouldn't blame McPhail if he walked out. On a personal note, that would be the final straw for me. I would be done with the O's until we got a new owner.

DEAL OR NO DEAL?

Howie Mandel's on the phone for either Angelos or MacPhail....

Ron - Interesting - not that it matters, but do you have this 1st hand?

I am curious because several people claiming insider info - in the media and on our favorite local sites - have all said Angelos approved the deal then killed it over a) Jones' comments, b) not enough return or c) the odd hope Bedard will sign a 5 year extension when he has said he would not go past 3 to a pitcher.

If he was in the hospital and out of contact, maybe he used telepathy to do all of these things he is said to do!

Or maybe these "insiders" have their heads up their.....?

To Ron: Is it true that Angelos had a procedure at Mercy hospital on Monday?

Long time reader, first time poster. O's fan since '89 (Y not season)

The posted comments seem pretty split evenly. There seems to be a faction that is so jaded with Angelos and the O's decade of losing that just want something, ANYTHING to happen, and another faction that agrees Angelos is an obstruction but recognizes that this is NOT an equitable deal for the O's long term. Bedard is a bonafide ace, a rarity in baseball, and any trade for him should be an overwhelming one. I'm pretty UNDERwhelmed by these players in return.

I have long felt Angelos has been obstructive in the O's progress towards winning, but fails to recognize it... I get the sense he really wants to win, but runs the O's like a law firm, methodical to a fault. I get the sense he recognizes fans want him to sell the team, but probably never will until the O's finish on top, so his legacy as owner won't be defined by a decade of losing.

Anyway though I don't care much for Angelos as an owner myself, I really hope people would relax and wait for this all to play out before demonizing him, especially if indeed he is having some personal or medical issues now. I agree with people above that AM is handling this situation well. People jumping all over and panicking that this deal has to get done NOW and the O's reputation is at stake are truly playing right into the hands of Seattle's GM. This is NOT a fair deal for the O's. Who cares if people are going to judge our franchise's sorry reputation? Like we're going to fix that overnight or even at all until the O's actually become competitive?

IMO any pressure felt to get things done now is pressure we're putting on ourselves and just helping Seattle. True Bedard's value could fall with injury, but how guaranteed are these Seattle players? Every player carries risk, that's life. But if a deal includes several high-level prospects, then that would at least reduce the risk... I really hope AM is holding out for another marquee prospect before trying to complete this deal.

Go O's.

"TO ALL.....Peter Angelos was in Mercy Hospital Monday having a procedure done. Let him wake up before you accuse him of vetoing the trade."

---

Why is it necessary to wait for Angelos to wake up when McPhail told us that he has the final say?

Oh, right, because Angelos is up to his old ways... and McPhail really DOESN'T have final say.

(Hopefully the procedure involved getting a brain upgrade).

Any chance Seattle has orchestrated this whole mess just to put pressure on the O's to close, knowing that their reputation will take a hit if they appear to back off again at the last minute?

PAUL - Excellent post but I am afraid you are swimming against the current here. And now you are probably going to be accused of working in the Warehouse!

SI had a story in a December issue about the trade the Tigers made with the Marlins to get Willis and Cabrerra. Interesting read.

BOTH GMs had to confer with their owners to complete the deal. In fact, Dombrowski of the Tigers is pretty clear about Ilitch needing to be kept informed as the deal progressed.

I do not know where this idea that the owner is just a guy who gets to sit in a luxury box while the GM operates with impunity came from, but it is not the way any other MLB team operates.

While Angelos has derailed the franchise and made a mess of things, he is well within his rights to review anything that involves spending his money.

Even Lee Iococca and Jack Welch had to confer with the Board of Directors!

Brian -- Thanks for that disturbing video of Brady Anderson... certainly lightened the mood on this blog. With everyone going nutty nuts waiting to hear about this trade, it's nice to see what our past players have been up to.

Oh the good old days of Brady Anderson. I certainly miss his big...........

sideburns. : )

Thoughts:

1) As a major supporter of the Tejada trade, I have to say that, based on what I can see on the table right now - Jones, Sherrill, and Tillman - this is not enough of a package to get the deal done. I would NOT support it at this point.

2) Obviously, the whole thing hinges on who the 4th unnamed prospect is (only the Sun seems to have reported a possible 5th prospect - the Seattle papers only mention a 4th).

3) If the 4th player is Triunfel, we have a deal. Do it immediately. We need a top middle infield prospect, particularly if we plan on dealing Roberts as well. As it stands now, I believe the M's have said that Triunfel is untouchable, and so is probably not 4th. If Morrow is the 4th, we possibly have a deal, but it's still one you think long and hard about.

4) Bedard is the top pitching commodity on the MLB market right now. He is far more valuable than Santana. Why? Bedard is locked up for 2 years, and Santana for only one. Determining who is better is basically splitting hairs at this point. Perhaps Santana gets the edge, but that is far outweighed by the extra year of Bedard's contract. Bottom line: if we deal the top AL pitcher at his peak with 2 years left on his contract: we MUST get the relevant players in return.

5) I agree with the previous posters who say that a) Jones is unproven at this point and still a gamble, b) Sherrill is too old to be part of the rebuilding effort, and c) Tillman is way too far away to be able to gauge with any certainty. This package needs more at this point. We cannot afford to be taken to the cleaners by the M's. If we rebuild, it must be intelligently.

6) All that said, I agree with Roch that this deal needs to get done to set us on the right track. But we must get more. I'm a GM and can't compare with the kind of professional research that he can do on the players, but we need to get at least another solid piece: Triunfel or Morrow; or alternatively, several other promising prospects. And finally...

7) Regarding all of the shennigans with this trade and leaked media info, it seems that problems have come from Seattle's side and not ours. God forbid that Andy shouldn't want to disclose info about the trade before its finalized. Seattle made some major mistakes here and not us, based on what I can see. It's impossible to tell at this point what Angelos has or hasn't done, but we know the M's leaked some serious info prematurely and that's pretty unacceptable.

Don't jump ship yet everyone! Let's see how this plays out...

Clint, I believe, has summed up this whole affair quite nicely. The longer the wait, the better for the O's.

Mariners fans believe, with good reason, they're one big pitcher from winning the division. The pressure is on Seattle, not us.

Let's play a little chicken with them. Throw in the fact that Santana will probably sign somewhere soon and there will be a team or two looking for the next best lefty starter and the water will start getting plenty choppy in the Seattle front office.

TomD, I always enjoy reading your comments and find them usually very informative. I'm willing to be corrected. I had the Orioles giving up Bedard, Scott, and Roberts and getting back Jones, Triunfel, Tillman, Clement, Sherill, Pie, Cedeno, and 1 or 2 Cub pitching prospects. I know that Cedeno can't hit very well, but feel that we need another middle infielder besides Hernandez. I also hope that Pie and Jones will join Markakis in giving the Orioles a strong defensive outfield. Since the Orioles won't out slug anyone until the young sluggers grow up, I think they should at least encourage their young pitchers through superior defense.

What are you hoping to get back for Bedard and Roberts (and Scott, too, if you are inclined to include him in the dealings)?

The more I think about this, the more I believe that AP and PA are on the same page. I actually think that PA is allowing his reputation drive the price up. Who looks bad if the deal isn't made? Angelos, but what does he care, he going to be looked at as a bad owner no matter what. (although I don't believe that.) Seattle will be the ultimate loser in this ordeal. They spoke too soon and got everyone hyped up, while the orioles never said a word. Seattle isn't worried about who looks bad they are worried about getting Bedard. They are going to need to up the ante. We need Jones, either Clement or the SS, Sherill, and 2 other pieces or else we don't move.

very well stated, roch. thanks again for all your hard work!!!

e is for eclipsed.......

There's an article on MLB.com that implies that the Mets are in front in the Johan Santana sweepstakes. Their package includes 4 players: Carlos Gomez, Deolis Guerra, Kevin Mulvey, and Philip Humber. After reviewing the career statistics for these prospects, I'm less impressed with the Mets players than the package that Seattle is supposedly offering for Bedard--especially if there are truly 5 players in the Mariners deal.

I am in Seattle..."four or five players" ???? you are really on the inside....have NEVER heard there are four, let alone five involved. Sherril may be the real cornerstone. He is the most underated reliever in the game. His numbers are as gooad as any and unlike "closers" comes in to shut down with guys on base. I hate to see him go much more than Jones. I think Jones will be a nice player, but compaing him (or anyone) to Griffey is a joke. At Jones' current age Griffey was already a Gold Glove winner and and All Star. Jones is jsut now ready to sart hi big league career. Most of us feel that if Bedard doesnt sign an extension the trade shoud not be made.

Hey Roch, I have known Peter Angelos a very long time. He had to borrow money from a friend to make it through the first big money asbestos trials. When he hit the big money, he remained very loyal to his friends and helped people in need without any publicity. I saw him campaign for a friend running for the legislature, who had no chance. In short, do not be too quick to judge him. He is very competitive and nobody wants a winner more than he does. And keep in mind an important point. The guy what pays the bills gets a say in what happens. I can tell you from the heart that if I was in trouble, I would want Peter Angelos on my side. Alan

I do believe that this trade will still happen fairly soon. At least I hope it does, Bedard is in his peak years, by the time we are a contender he will most likely be on the downside of his career. We need some young prospects that the O's can hopefully develop into something real good.

My pleasure Jennifer. I knew the ladies here would want to see it, plus Roch. I know Roch has remained friendly with Anderson.
This just shows you how they all fall after retirement, they simply can't accept being part of the herd. Cruising websites & texting cheesy pics to young girls? If you ask me, this action was more offensive than Huff's antics, but Brady isn't still playing here.....

For anyone not willing to give AM a few more months to see what he can do, lets consider his one move this season:

1) Tejada traded prior to the Mitchell Report and a very possible Grand Jury Indictement. How good does that trade look right now? And that is without even one pitch being thrown.

This could possibly be the most lopsided trade since Glenn Davis. After 10 years of losing.....I'll take that right now. And right now, I am fully supportive of McPhail and his choice to wait on the Bedard trade. He has earned it in my book.

I love your blog Roch, but let me see if I understand this: let's dump the veterans for prospects, like when we dealt Mike Bordick, Harold Baines, Charles Johnson, BJ Surhoff, Mike Timlin, and Will Clark. That was the great rebuilding project of 2000 and look at the terrific dividends it has paid off. Shouldn't Luis Rivera be on his 2nd Cy Young by now? Chris Richard batting cleanup? Though I will say that Trenidad Hubbard was one of my favorite Oriole names during the five games he played. Or maybe the 1988 deal of Eddie Murray. I love how Juan Bell became our SS of the future. Not every deal is Doyle Alexander for John Smoltz or Larry Anderson for Jeff Bagwell (both deals done at the deadline when teams were desperate). We could start a wiki with all the duds we've received over the years. Chris Hoiles and Melvin Mora are the only two legit