If Jones has a hangnail, potter's docs will find it & nix the deal. He is notorious for this with ample examples from the past. I don't like the deal as is, so I have no problem with the meddling this time.
It seems like a convenient way for MacFail to save face. They can spin it that he was not overridden by potter thus he doesn't have to walk as he said he would if he was not calling the shots. Just another day in potterville....

Gotta give you all the props in the world, Roch. You've been handling this story to a T all the way along. Nice work as always.

As for speculating about an injury, I think it's more foolish than dangerous. It seems like being wrong about something like that would be a bigger hit to the person who made the mistake than to the player in question, especially since (I think?) it was local media.

ns

Thanks a ton Roch. I feel like you're the only guy we can trust here.

Well said, Roch.

As they say in the newspaper business: "a" is for attribution.

why not give us triunfel too if jones isn't 100%? i like the idea of a bedard trade, but what's the point of trading roberts also if we're not going to get a decent replacement option up the middle. we trade roberts, and we have two empty middle infield positions and a rookie in center considering we get jones. any thoughts?

If Jones even may have a hip condition then thank God they're being cautious.

Can they also examine Tillman and find out why he can't pitch in A+ ball?

And then examine the FO's mind that wants him in a deal?

oh noes it's albert belle all over again.

a is for adam?

Nice work, Roch. Keep it up.

I must say that reading the comments from several posters of late has been disheartening, if not entirely surprising. Sure, Angelos has his share of excruciating flaws, yet the extent to which posters and at least one Seattle columnist and one Sun columnist (Maese) have pushed the Angelos envelope, citing him as LIKELY culprit in the stalled negotiations -- despite a lack of evidence -- merely smacks of cynicism and crude assumptions. It's also a glaring reminder of the amount of boredom that pervades so much sports talk these days. The thinking goes: in lieu of hard evidence why not just banter and blame, allege and conjecture. It's tiresome, not particularly constructive, and ultimately sadly reflective of an inner futility on the part of those brandishing the allegations.

whoah!

I heard this reported as a thought on Mark Viviano's show earlier today but couldn't find anything written about it.

If Jones has a hip problem you can pretty much bet there won't be a trade with Adam Jones as the center piece of the deal. Angelos would be too haunted by the Albert Belle condition.

"A" is for Ain't that a shame.

I don't think anyone expects the Sun to run with any kind of weird info like that. I just thought I'd bring it up since it's just one more rumor floating around about this thing. For all we know, Jones just jumped the gun and the viral media took it from there - from the physicals to the plane rides to the Angelos rumors to the medical records.. you know? Maybe the deal was never really as close as Jones thought it was.

Who the hell knows anymore.

Roch,
This really sounds far fetch as you mentioned. At this point who can you believe with any of this trade stuff. But they took a good thing (rebuilding with youth) and turned it into a bad thing (three ring circus). What is missing here is communications to the fans. Are we owed it? I guess that is up to P A interpretation.
But I can tell you from talking to a few of my die hard friends, the O's are making it really easy not to like the organization with the way they do business.
If we are truly in a "rebuilding stage" then trading EB & BR is detrimental to the future success of the Orioles.
The A's traded their top pitcher and we didnt hear any of these conflicts. Why is trading a player with the O's always a fiasco?
Your thoughts on that last sentence Roch would be greatly appreciated?
Keep up the good work and with showing that communications can be a GOOD THING!

Is this truly the hold up? If it is, why haven't they brought him in for the physical?

This sounds more like an excuse for Ole P A to save his but again, and not look like the meddling Owner. Sorry Roch, but I have ZERO faith with anything that comes from the O's front office. And A M fits in perfectly with PA scheme of keeping information away from the common peasants, " they are not worthy of our knowledge."

Krap... another chapter in the never ending saga of Bedardomania....

ROCH - Great post!!!!

Stan the Fan is not new to this type of hoo-ha. Remember, he is the guy who started the "Trade Eddie" mantra and made an issue about Eddie not sliding (on Earl's instructions) like that was the reason the team was not in the WS.

It got to the point where even Earl Weaver felt the need to semi-personally address the clown.

If Stan the Fan learned 2 new things about baseball today it would triple his knowledge of the game.

I am not sure why this guy is still on the radio. I thought we were rid of him when WFBR went under.

how reliable is this stan the fan guy? is this just for publicity or is this really relevant?

any (still) locals want to comment?

It is just a matter of time before you join Olney, Pluto, Rosenthall, Kurkjian, and others at a national media site anyway....

I'm sure another comment will say this first, but Santana just went to the Mets for about the same kind of package the Mariners are offering for Bedard. Jones is alot closer to being an everyday player than anything the Twins got for the best pitcher of the last 10 years. So the O's and some fans better lower expectations for Bedard. We arent getting a current star. The O's will look even worse if we dont pull the trigger now.

Roch,

Not sure if you know, but www.rotoworld.com references your blog fairly often, now they are mentioning you by name...

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=MLB&id=72

I would love to know what radio show and who made the comment about Jones' degenerative hip condition (can anyone say Albert Belle?)

Shannon

Roch,

Isn't that what Albert Belle had and therefore had to retire from...? I'm pretty sure it was a similar issue. Either way, if that was the case, I can imagine why Angelos would get jumpy.

Hmm, sounds a little coincidental to me actually. I think this is a false rumor.

As you said, hopefully it is just a rumor... for the sake of a young talent like Jones.

If you know the truth, it would be refreshing for someone in this giant debacle to share it.

Where does all this crap come frrom. Why can't someone just speak up frrom the O's or Mariners and tell what the real truth is to this rumor...and let everyone know the scoop....if the trade gets done or not done at this point does not matter...it either will or won't...straight truthful facts need to be told to all ..good or bad....and stop the insanity or speculation....I think everyone gets it that the trade is being talked about....just give us facts please....real honest facts...and then the baseball guys can go back working on the deal....to some freaking conclusion

The new Albert (Joey) Belle!

Please keep in mind that the package from the Mets that seems to have secured Santana may seem like less than the proposed Bedard trade because Santana has a full no trade clause and will only accept a trade provided he gets a 6 year extension of more than 120 mil. Seattle only the other hand would get Bedard guaranteed for 2 years at over $100mil less and would have all the time in the world to try to convince him to stay as he has no such clause and therefore no leverage. So, the O's should get more because the Mariners do not have to pony up a Zito deal to get him.

Its not right to compare these pacakges.

Roch, I think you and the rest of the Sun staff (baseball of course) are doing a great job dealing with the new media, and responding to rumors. I applaud you all for maintaining your integrity.

It also looks like Fox Sports is reporting that the Twins have agreed to trade Santana to the Mets, and New York didn't have to add in Fernando Martinez. That may hurt the O's and their attempt to get an addition like Triunfel included into the deal. Who knows...

One thing is for sure, if this deal happened, it will be nice that Santana not only won't be pitching in the AL East, but not in the American League either.

Talk about the People of Baltimore shooting themselves in the foot. It takes not much to process that Baltimore does not want to make a deal, and that they will do anything they can to drag other teams and young players with them to do it. I've watched Jones play in Everett back when he was in A and in Tacoma up in AAA, and we have never heard of any kind of hip problem... Smoke and mirros this is all that this is.

God I hope after this Baltimore gets black balled for all future trades. Talk about a sinking ship

Since this is the first I'm hearing about this I'll go ahead and give it my honest gut reaction. Perhaps it's true, but I don't see how if that was the case about Jones that they as an organization would be so high on him...or why they would allow him play in a winter league. Granted I don't know much about degenerate hip disease, but I'm guessing that taking putting extra wear and tear on it by playing games you didn't actually need to wouldn't be the recommended way to go about it.

Sounds like more locker room speculation passed on as fact because someone heard from a "source" that it was true.

I think the O's are just a little late in discovering a hip condition before they acquire a player, maybe they should have been looking for this in Albert.

Apparently there was a report on MLB on XM that Angelos was in the hospital yesterday/today for some kind of "check up." I'm not one to jump to conclusions, but is it possible there is something wrong with our favorite owner? It would explain several things.

One, it would explain the "personal issues" that he was apparently tending to yesterday, as reported by ESPN and FoxSports, that made him unable to approve the trade.

Two, it would account for the "complex issues" that were holding the trade yesterday, according to a source.

Three, and maybe most importantly, it would explain why, somehow, given all the confusion and drama surrounding this deal, both GMs (but most notably Bavasi) have sort of kept quiet, and said very little. If this deal were being held up by any fault or incompetence on the part of the Orioles, you'd think you might hear some frustration on the part of Bavasi. So far though, nothing.

Of course Jones having some medical issue would explain some of those things too I suppose.

The Mets and Twins apparently reached an agreement. I wonder how that is going to affect the Bedard deal beyond Jones' hip (if proven true)?

I don't think asking the key player in a trade for a physical before letting Bedard's agen know about the trade should be seen as a warning sign. You hear about this kind of stuff all of the time. Why hasn't this degenerative hip condition been reported before now? Adam Jones has been in the trade discussions for months now. What this sounds like is more BS from the O's PR machine to try to save face and fans because Angelos blew it once again. This also isn't the first time the O's have turned down a trade or a free agent because they said someone was injured when the other club disputed it. I can't remember who it was (help anyone??) but a few years ago we went through this same thing.

please not round two of albert belle.....

I hate to say it because I know we need to do something, but I'm getting cold feet now. Not so much about Jones' health but that we're not getting enough for a lights-out #1 lefty starter.
I need Jones and 2 of the 4 - Sherril, Morrow, Truinfel or Clement plus a B prospect.
We have no incentive to give Bedard away.

Rock can you tell us what your meetings were about?

Why should Stan start being responsible now ?

Now that Santana-to-Mets is official, I think we should wait to see if we get any new suitors for Bedard. The waiting is killing me, but waiting a few more days can only help MacPhails bargaining position.

This, unfortunately, is yellow journalism at its lowest. Way to spread disinformation about a young player, very classy.

I sure hope the snag has been the O's being thorough enough to find out about Jones having a degenerative hip, rather than it being the usual, " Peter not signing off", garbage.

If it turns out that Jones could potentially be damaged goods, than the fact the O's were onto it, and took pre-emptive measures (stalling the trade, until more research on the matter could be completed), would be a big time stroke in AM's favor.

There couldn't be too many thing's worse than trading away our ace, only to find out a few day's later, the young center piece we got in return has a hip "condition", and we were totally burned. I have complete faith in AM, and his ability to cross all "T's" and dot all "I's", before making some costly decision for the sake of haste...

Word on the street (espn.com) is that the Mets have won the "Santana Sweepstakes" THey have an agreement in place based upon physicals. It sounds like the person who recently posted that the O's should wait to see if the competition heats up for Bedard now that the #1 #1 starter is off the market will get what he wished for.
My question is: do you think this has anything at all to do with the Seattle trade being on hiatus, and if so, is that a little too risky for the O's given their position?
(sorry, maybe I'm just not used to a F/O savvy enough to pull off something like that)

Roch, we've seen this all before. Remember Aaron Sele in 2000? Please look at the following links to refresh your memory:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0DE2DC103BF93BA35752C0A9669C8B63

http://www.oobleck.com/orioles/archives/columns/2000/drangelos.html

Angelos is at it again. I am so done with him and this team.

I can't find anything relating to Jones that could indicate an issue from the Seattle blogs or papers or from searches on the net.

I remember the O's had a deal with Aaron Sele that PA rescinded because of something he saw on the x-rays from the physical.

I wonder if the O's thought they saw something curious when Seattle sent the medical records of the players involved.

Ever since Belle, I doubt Angelos will allow a player to come on board without a physical. Asking Jones to get one is not a surprise.

That the O's found a condition that Seattle was either hiding or did not know about just seems strange.

Also, it would be nice to know if the hold up came from PA, MacPhail or someone else on the O's side.

Meanwhile, if Jones is damaged goods, do the O's try to substitute Clement and Morrow for Jones or do they turn to Chicago and the lesser package they could offer (maybe Pie, Murton, Hill, Patterson, Cedeno and another guy - Gallagher - would do it)?

Or do they turn to someone else?

Why do I keep hearing Rod Serling's voice?

At least there is some good news today--Santana going to the NL instead of the AL East. We may now have the best pitcher in the AL (at least for now).

Roch: Peter Gammons thinks that Bedard (M's) and Roberts (Cubs) will be gone by next week. Care to offer up any conjectures of your own from what you're hearing

The Seattle Times has confirmed that they listened to a tape of the Jones interview over the telephone before they wrote their story about Jones being traded to Baltimore. It is hard to deny the cat was out of the bag early and damage control shut everyone down. Still, it is going to be difficult to deny the deal, as reported, was accurate.

Now that Santana has been traded, Bedard becomes the top gun. Orioles would be wise to hold off the trade with Seattle, and see what Yankees and Red Sox are willing to offer for him. This development has got to help the O's.

Interesting, I always thought Angelos was a lawyer. Come to find out he's a doctor too. What a talented guy.

Im sure many of you, like me, have been checking the Mariners' websites at times today. It's pretty interesting that so many of their fans are now certain, after the Santana deal was announced, that they would be getting fleeced if they gave up Jones, Sherrill, Tillman and 1 more.
But I dont think I saw a single post there that acknowledged that a new contract with Santana will cost the Mets $50 million more than the Mariner's would pony up for an extended contract with Bedard. Nor that Bedard has TWO years left on his current contract.

Just like this blog, a high percentage of the M's posters seem to be on the verge of hysteria about it all, except they're certain THEY would be getting shafted.

As far as Jones' health goes, it just doesn't make sense to me that the Ms would have let him play in Venezuela if they knew of any sort of major medical issue.

I'm feeling like the trade will happen, within a couple days, and that the names we've heard are close.

This may have gotten lost in the whirlwind of the day, but Keith Law came out with his top 5 prospects by position today.. The Orioles had 2 players on the list - Matt Wieters was the #1 Catching prospect, and Nolan Reimold was # 5 at the corner OF spot. Interestingly enough, Adam Jones was not in the top 5 for CF prospects, though I'm not sure if that's a playing time factor. If it is, though, then why was Cameron Maybin on the list?
The other interesting note was that Carlos Triunfel was the # 1 Middle Infielder prospect. Would I love to have him on our team!

x marks the spot on the rhino's rump that is the Baltimore Orioles right now.

Sudhir is dead on concerning this development. Anyone who reads this blog much, knows how I absolutely loathe the idea of getting rid of Erik Bedard and never will be sold on it (repeat these three words to yourselves, people, and then sit back and let them sink in: Cy Young Award).

That said, if the O's are bound and determined to get rid of Bedard, then maybe it's providential that they didn't trade him when they had the chance, since with Johann Santana off the board, Erik is it for teams wanting to deal for a dominant hurler. Then, again, maybe it WASN'T providential; maybe word of the Santana trade was leaked!

Nice work, Roch. Keep it up.

I must say that reading the comments from several posters of late has been disheartening, if not entirely surprising. Sure, Angelos has his share of excruciating flaws, yet the extent to which posters and at least one Seattle columnist and one Sun columnist (Maese) have pushed the Angelos envelope, citing him as LIKELY culprit in the stalled negotiations -- despite a lack of evidence -- merely smacks of cynicism and crude assumptions. It's also a glaring reminder of the amount of boredom that pervades so much sports talk these days. The thinking goes: in lieu of hard evidence why not just banter and blame, allege and conjecture. It's tiresome, not particularly constructive, and ultimately sadly reflective of an inner futility on the part of those brandishing the allegations

Posted by: Dimitrios | January 29, 2008 4:03 PM

Dimitrios,

Are you Peter or John? My goodness.
Thank You.........

In addition to Albert Belle, I do believe our man Chris Hoiles was struck with
the degenerative hip condition as well.

This however still seems far-fetched.

Roch, see if you can find out what Angelos is in the hospital for. Perhaps if these issues are really that "complex" or whatever the FO dubbed them, we might be back on are way to respectability before we think.

I'm a Mariners fan since their inception, from the Pac N/W. The possibility of the M's landing a LP of this level in any trade is unbelievable given their history of trades. If it happens I would be ecstatic!

Somebody play me a song...Now playing: Our Lips Are Sealed, Go-Gos
Thank you. Much better. Go-Go O's.

In addition to Albert Belle, I do believe our man Chris Hoiles was struck with
the degenerative hip condition as well.

This rumor however still seems a bit far-fetched. But when your a team that can't afford to take another wrong step, it is neccessary to step as carefully as possible.

Roch, see if you can find out what Angelos is in the hospital for. Perhaps if these issues are really that "complex" or whatever the FO dubbed them, we might be back on our way to respectability alot sooner then we think.

Does the phrase "sh*t or get off the pot" ring a bell?

If O's brass doesn't want to make the deal as is that's fine.

But mis-information about some mystery hip ailment that no one has ever heard before seems all too convenient.

No way the O's trade Bedard within the division. PA isn't that dumb is he?

Sudhir is dead on concerning this development. Anyone who reads this blog much, knows how I absolutely loathe the idea of getting rid of Erik Bedard and never will be sold on it (repeat these three words to yourselves, people, and then sit back and let them sink in: Cy Young Award).

That said, if the O's are bound and determined to get rid of Bedard, then maybe it's providential that they didn't trade him when they had the chance, since with Johann Santana off the board, Erik is it for teams wanting to deal for a dominant hurler. Then, again, maybe it WASN'T providential; maybe word of the Santana trade was leaked!

It would be nice to dangle Bedard for the teams that lost out on Santana, but those teams are the Yankees and Red Sox. I believe Angelos refuses to make a significant trade with either team, so we gain nothing from Santana being off the market.

Omar Little should kill Peter Angelos.. Just a thought..

http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/mariners/

Try this blog for maybe more up to date info. Or
More of the circus

Sandy K. I agree with you and so do a few others, but we are still the minority opposed to this trade. You win with pitching so knock Bedard's socks off with a 5 year deal.
If we add up the combined salaries left owing to the following: Mora (16 mill), Huff (14 mill), Payton (5 mill), Baez (13 mill) Gibbons (10 mill) you are in the 50-60 mill range..likely in the ballpark for Bedard. Apples and oranges I know but my point is that the O's have the resources to pay.. in hindsight, I'd take Bedard over that whole sorry list players, most of whom unfortunately, will be 'key' parts of the '08 team!

Is it possible to stick Omar Little on Peter Angelos?

First they killed Butchy, now Angelos is interfering with MacPhail? Omar must be red-hot, whistling in the shadow of Camden Yards..

By the way, I'm a Mariners fan from Seattle, but I have a new-found respect for Baltimore and it's citizens after becoming a die-hard fan of The Wire. Bodymore, Murdaland..

Disregard the previous post from me. When I sent it previously (it's now on the blog), I encountered an error page when I clicked submit, so I assumed it didn't get through. Sorry about that. Good stuff you've said about Adam Jones, Roch, in which you take in the bigger picture. I always like to see responsible comments from a sportswriter (or any journalist for that matter), and, no, unfortunately, it isn't a given, though it should be.

Anonymous who posted earlier is 100% correct: "I need Jones and 2 of the 4 - Sherril, Morrow, Truinfel or Clement plus a B prospect". Bedard is #1 Lefty who is a Top 5 pitcher in the game, entering his prime, & cheap.

In our current situation where we have Bedard for 2 more years, you need to be get blown away with an offer. A BP pitcher (Sherrill) & a pitcher that hasn't proved that he can get Single-A hitters out (Tillman) doesn't excite me. Jones sounds like he could become a stud OF, but I've heard the same thing about Milledge, Pie, and Patterson over the past few years.

We need another Top Prospect in this deal.

I am a die hard O's fan. Since, the O's are starting from scratch, I would trade him and get what you can. Bedard is awsome with enormous potential but, the O's are in need of youth extensive talent throughout the organization. They have been trying to patch this ship for 10 years. Rebuild the ship and replenish the entire organization for which was depleted by trading away all the talent for free agency. It truely demonstrates that one, two or three players (Bedard, Tejada, Roberts) can't take this team above .500. The team is in bad shape and will only get worse with time. Even if we kept Bedard and he won 20 games, the O's would still be 10-20 games below .500. They will loose him in 2009 anyway due to free agency.

It would be par for the course if the Ms let this deal slip away. They have never been able to land a top pitcher (proven at the time) in a trade. Lots of maybes, almosts, and near deals but no pay dirt!

The Orioles started the rumor. It gives PA the out he wanted since Bedard and Roberts are the only players he as heard of on the team.

Roch, deny this comment: Most of the players have never met him and we wouldn't know them if they walked by him.

..I had a degenerative hip and had hip replacement surgery at the age of 44. If Jones is 22 years old you can see the possibility in an x-ray but it takes a very long time for the cartildge to wear out. The comaprison to Belle is somewhat flawed. When Albert came to Baltimore he had one good year but was approaching the age where a hip condition would start materializing. Posters are forgeting how awesome he was in the 5 year period before he came to Baltimore and it was the same degenerative hip condition.

n = need to trade Bedard (hate to do it yet necessary)

A couple of points about Chris Tillman and his 5.26 ERA in A ball. 1. High Desert, his '07 team, plays in one of, if not the, biggest launching pads in the Minors - sort of like Coors Field with the fences pulled in.
2. The defense behind him was atrocious. They made 256 errors in 140 games. Based on this he is a better pitcher than his raw numbers indicate. How much better I don't know

Roch, I found two interesting links about the Orioles Hangout today. This had been posted on the OH forums, but the thread was deleted. Censorship much?! I think the point this first link was trying to make was proved by doing that:

http://stupidmonkies.blogspot.com/

Also, a friend told me a complaint has been filed against them at the BB&B regarding advertised prices for the Plus Membership.

http://app.hawaii.bbb.org/complaint/view/52006060/c/p87k7r?bbbid=1076

All I can say is they seem to hit the nail on the head.

what if this is true about jones hip, and he is then not the center peice of the trade, and will the M's back out of the trade if they ask for triunfel. Also will the cubs get back into the Bedard durby and pull of a 7 for 2 trade. I personally think Pie is better then jones if jones does have a problem with his hip.

No wonder your team has shown a complete lack of anything since Ripken retired.
The owner is dreadful and the GM doesn't have the cajoles to tell him goodbye.
Makes the woeful existence we have had here in Seattle the past few years look like nothing.

There is absolutely no way anyone could know anything about his hip one way or the other without him having a physical. Divulging someones medical history is something that can send you to jail, and if this is somebody thinking they are funny, prepare to be sued or prosecuted, or both.
Swapping Jones for Truinfel in exchange for a pitcher we could overpay monetarily and sign as a free agent in two years is something not even our buffoon of a GM would do. I would recommend they take the offer or be prepared for 2 years of an extremely unhappy ace pitcher or a much less attractive offer from someone else.

Mark in Seattle: Now that you have such a fresh perspective on your "woeful existence" in Seattle, may you continue to enjoy it.

Hey I'd be woeful too if it rained 3 days out of 5.

good job Roch - i like your rational, professional approach with this issue.

For those of you who defend Angelos –

It is true that we don’t know what role, if any, he has had in this Bedard “trade”.

However, we do know that, during his ownership, he has single handedly destroyed the last vestiges of what was once the best run franchise in baseball- and has turned the Orioles into a national laughingstock.

As far as I’m concerned, for this alone he does not deserve the benefit of the doubt.

It is good to see that many others feel the same way.

I think we should do what we always do under Angelos...nothing. Let's hold out and nix the deal just because. Actually, since Angelos thinks he can sign him, let's offer Bedard a 5 year deal (which buys out 3 Free Agent years) for $40 million (after Yohan gets $150 million) so we can really piss him off.

Then because he is so angry he can't focus Bedard will be 7-7 by the All-Star break and we can then unload him for 2 lower minor league players because he will lose his value. Roberts will still be here too.

Remember, because we "did nothing" with Brady we got stuck with a 5 year $30 mil (and ate the last year) instead of 4 year $16. And Moose...we offered him another hometown discount rate and pissed him off so much that he went to the Yanks and we got a draft pick (who is that masked man and what is he doing nowadays). But let's give Melvin and Gibbons nice big fat contracts just because we likem.

Actually, let's trade Bedard for Luis Rivera! Signed...frustrated O's fan and former season ticket holder.

The first I heard of a potential health issue was on ESPN 1300 AM during the Mark Viviano show and their guest, which I thought was Dan Conolloy suggested that this was a possible hold up. He didn't come right out and say it directly. He said that somebody else close to the story said, "there has to me something more to this." He then added that there might be a medical reason for the deal being held up,
Number 2, this whole "give Bedard what he wants and sign him for 5 years" mantra is utter nonsense.

Who is the last pitcher the Orioles signed for a five year contract? If memory serves me correctly, it was Scott Ericksson who didn't pitch all five years. Since then Angelos refuses to go anything over 3 years because the insurance companies that insure baseball contracts won't insure anything past 3 years because of the risk involved. Bottom line, period. It will not be done. Angelos also takes exception to paying top dollar for pitching anyway because they are not every day players.

Bedard doesn't want to be on a rebuilding team....what are the Orioles trying to do supposedly right now?

Do the math people.

u = understand the writing on the wall

Mariners Fan - we wouldn't be dealing with 2 years of an extremely unhappy ace pitcher. We would trade him to a contender at the trade deadline.

Hopefully, we would do better than getting a solid 30 year old bullpen pitcher, a pitcher who can't pitch in A ball, and a young CF who sounds a lot like Corey Patterson. I don't mind Patterson, but I don't need to trade one of the best pitchers in baseball to get him.

Uh, Josh... it rains as much here as it does in Seattle, Look it up- good try though

It's never been discussed and will never happen, but would you trade Bedard for Cleveland's Grady Sizemore straight up?

We all know Stan Charles is a hack trying to get a job with the Orioles or MASN. They probably leaked the idea to him to have an out when they balk on the trade.

Dang, tons of posts here and I read each and every one of them. Thanks Roch and all y'all "posted bys."

Hip or no hip, the deal sucked.

Serious question, though... unless a certain clause is included in a new contract (or even if) couldn't the O's still sign Bedard longer term yet deal him (as long as the terms of the new contract allowed for it)?

e is for I'm an ediot.

Ken Francis -

Uh, and how many CY awards has Bedard won? Did I miss something last season?? Oh let's see, he hasn't won a CY. What part of that last sentence don't you understand?

What Bedard is, a dominating LH pitcher. He certainly has CY potential, and like you I would like to keep him as well. But let's not kid ourselves, he's already stated he's not interested in rebuilding. Then a guy who typically doesn't want to talk to the media suddenly calls out MacPhail in the paper, regarding contract extension. I'm not saying he's a cancer, but I do question his motive for going to the press to suddenly discuss contract talks.

As for Texiera, I doubt he lands here. Why would he want to play for a perennial loser? He just got out of jail, here in Texas. So now he wants to hook up with the O's (this is not your father's O's) and finish out a career looking at 4th place finishes? Very doubtful. In fact if Atlanta's incoming ownership group gives the green light to sign him long term, that would be very appealing to him. A team that annually contends. Imagine that!

Mariners Fan -

Yeah, we may have an unhappy Bedard for two more years, but we also didn't pay $48 mil for Carlos Silva. Now who's laughing? Stick to your lattes and crappy weather. Let's see what great contribution to baseball history have the M's provided? Oh yeah, you managed to run off The Big Unit, Griffey & A-Rod. Nice legacy!!

As for the proposed trade, keep your junk. Adam Jones, Truinfel, Morrow and Tillman get the deal. Otherwise you can look up at the Angels after the 08 season and join us in watching post season play. Enjoy!!

"Woeful existence" perfectly describes Seattle. So does "lousy roads", and "faux friendly." I cannot wait to move back to B'more.

Anyways.. Not many people are touching on this thing about PA being in the hospital. Not even the idiots over at ESPN-Y. And especially not anyone over at the Seattle Times. If it turns out that he was truly unable to handle baseball matters because of some health issue, a lot of media types and fans alike are going to look pretty foolish. I hate the man just as much as anyone, but this could be a legit reason for the hold up.

Anonymous who posted earlier is 100% correct: "I need Jones and 2 of the 4 - Sherril, Morrow, Truinfel or Clement plus a B prospect". Bedard is #1 Lefty who is a Top 5 pitcher in the game, entering his prime, & cheap.

In our current situation where we have Bedard for 2 more years, you need to be get blown away with an offer. A BP pitcher (Sherrill) & a pitcher that hasn't proved that he can get Single-A hitters out (Tillman) doesn't excite me. Jones sounds like he could become a stud OF, but I've heard the same thing about Milledge, Pie, and Patterson over the past few years.

We need another Top Prospect in this deal.

Bedard is top 5... maybe. Santana - all contract issues aside - is a much better pitcher by virtue of his track record and consistency. Plus, getting Santana is better than getting Bedard because while Bedard is going to walk after 2 years, the Mets know they have Santana around for 6-7 years. A slight cost discount in years 1 and 2 for Bedard doesn't offset the risk AND the track record.

That being said - with the Mets deal being what it is, there's no way the M's give up Jeff Clement, Brandon Morrow, or Carlos Triunfel in addition to Jones. Let's be honest - it's not going to happen, nor should it. As it stands, the deal is win-win. Seattle stand to lose too much by adding another "Top Prospect", and Jones plus 3-4 prospects from the Mariners (assuming this injury rumor is unsubstantiated) is a HUGE haul for the Orioles.

Adam Jones - GG centerfielder with speed, and definite regular 30+ HR potential.

George Sherrill - undervalued as a situational lefty in Safeco, this guy is ready to be one of the AL's top 10 closers.

Chris Tillman - Seattle has had really high hopes for this guy. Look for him to be a solid-to-excellent #3 starter in the majors.

Assuming 4 and 5 are Mickolio (future closer / high-leverage setup man) and Butler (Tillman Jr), the Orioles are sitting pretty if they pull this one off.

maybe this is just the biased opinion of an M's fan, not wanting to believe negative health rumors of our best prospect/rookie but...

if Jones supposedly had some degenerative hip condition, why the heck would you CANCEL a scheduled physical by the O's people? wouldn't you want to examine him for yourself and confirm his health either way?

and you guys posting earlier are right on about Aaron Sele being in a similar boat with the O's - having reservations about the health of his pitching shoulder, but if I remember correctly that was discovered during his physical, not prior to.

Hey Roch, check out John Hickey's story in today's Seattle PI. He says the Orioles have spent the last two days trying to get Seattle to make a better offer for Bedard. He also says the story about the hip condition is entirely unsubstantiated.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/printer2/index.asp?ploc=t&refer=http://seattlepi.nwsource.co,,, Phone 206-448-8004 or johnhickey@seattlepi.com Title of article is Santana deal could spur Orioles to move Bedard

AM in VA is right in his defense of Tillman. I think Tillman still walks too many guys, but bear in mind that the AVERAGE starter in that league has an ERA of about 5. So Tillman has an average ERA despite an unfriendly home park and poor defense behind him. He's also very young and strikes out lots of guys, both better indicators of future success than ERA (provided he decreases the walks, which is a very big caveat).

T-Mac, I think Jones is off Law's list because he has more than 135 AB's (barely) in the majors and wouldn't be considered a rookie.

Ideally, I'd like a happy Bedard staying here. I don't see that happening, so hopefully we get good return and move on before we have an unhappy and less effective Bedard who gets traded for garbage.

I find it VERY interesting that YOU blast someone for talkiing about the hip rumor when in fact it sounds like YOU KNOW the real story and won't tell us anything. Instead we get " All I can say about the topic is that the Orioles became concerned with something related to Jones". I don't know much but I know one thing... You know the truth and won't say a word because of your boys at the warehouse.

Angelos' firm sues for medical malpractice. He may know a thing or two about reading a medical chart.

Yeah, bummer he got in the way of that Aaron Sele deal. Now Sele won't wear an O's cap on his HOF plaque or have a stainless stell number out by Eutaw street.

But if he just allowed that great Adam Larouche deal!!!

First of all, Joe L., I wasn't "blasting" anyone. I was pointing out the risks in reporting something as fact if it hasn't been confirmed - especially something this serious. And I'm not holding back anything because of "my boys" in the warehouse. We don't know the exact reasons, just that there was something that drew the concerns of at least one person. Or so it seems. When we know for sure, we'll say so.

The Cubs are not listed as a team in the running for Bedard, but if there is something blocking the Seattle deal, is there a combination not involving Rich Hill (say, Pie, Gallagher, Marshall and one other -- not Donnie Veal or Tyler Colvin) that is enough to get Bedard to the North Side?