Pieper should come clean...... also, isn't it a favorite answer of agents that they don't like to talk about negotiations in the press or to negotiate vis the press? Funny how he picks now to utilize them.

How can you forget the Reggie Jackson trade?

I thought things might get better with McPhail but the Orioles continue to be completely incompetent. This week, regardless of how it turns out, is just another embarrassment. And it again lies at the feet of Peter G. Angelos!

My votes are:

The FRobby trade had the most impact.

The Glenn Davis trade was the most disappointing - like everyone else, I thought it was great when made.

But the most controversail was the Don Baylor & Mike Torres for Reggie Jackson & Ken Holtzman trade before the 1976 season - it initially looked like a great deal, but noone realized the impact of the new free agent system would have and of course, Reggie's month long holdout to begin the season sure led to a lot of second guessing.

Os/Yanks --- Os traded Bob Turley, Don Larsen and nameless others to the Yankees for for Harry Byrd, Jim McDonald, Gus Triandos, Hal Smith, Gene Woodling, and few others.

Yeah, right! I'm sure since Santana wants at least $150,000,000 Bedard will settle for $20 and case of Natty Boh. Or maybe the inaccuracy is that Pieper is asking $99,999,999.99. 1cent can be pretty irresponsible reporting you know.

ESPN now reports that Angelos PERSONALLY contacted Bedard about an extension. Though I have mixed feelings as to whether or not they should trade or hang on to him, this involvement by Angelos is a HUGE problem as I see it.

So much for Andy McPhail having autonomy. If I were him my resignation would be on the owner's desk right now.

Why can't we just make this trade and be done with it? Why can't everyone in the organization that this not only should be done, it NEEDS to be done.

We, as fans and as an organization, need a fresh start. If we can trade 3 players and end up with 12 players (mostly good prospects), we need to do that. We are going to be built around pitching and a few big hitters (Markakis, Jones, Wieters, Rowell, Teixeira - I hope!). That is how the Twins won, and that is how the Cubs would have won if Prior and Wood had stayed healthy.

As far as this specific trade, it's a good trade. Five prospects (if rumors are true) is a good haul for Baltimore, especially considering that we're getting their top hitting prospect and top pitching prospect. Both are young, too! Sure, it would be really nice to get Jones and Triunfel, but I just don't think that will happen. Given what the Mets gave up for Santana (a Cy Young award winner), I think Andy did a nice job of getting talent that will help this year AND down the road.

Make the trade already!

Just a passing thought on a slow morning...when Bedard's agent shows up with damily members at any event, does anyone say, "Jeepers, creepers, where'd you get those..."

Nevermind.

Quick question... should to O's spend the money now on an extension for Bedard (and or Roberts), or spend it on Texieria next year?

does any one else ever get the feeling that the rest of the baseball country laughs at our beloved incompetent O's?

The thing that I will remember most about this off-season is how inaccurate and careless some of the media has been. (Trades, Leaked Mitchell Report Lists) I just read an article on ESPN. In the article they included comments from a "source that did not want to be named", about dealing with Peter Angelos in regards to negotiations

Again, I hate coming to the defense of PA, but how careless is it for the media to print disparaging comments from unnamed sources. How do we know that the comments are not made up? I feel if you are going to comment negatively on someone you should at least own up to the comment. Obviously PA's reputation proceeds him, but if you are going to attack someone it should be done ethically.

Hopefully everyone is watching this season of The Wire to get a glimpse inside of the media. The authenticity of the Wire has been incredible, so I would assume this season is no different.

If he did want 7 years for $100 million, I'd say pounce on it. But overall, I like the parameters of the Mariners trade. I'd like them more if Carlos Triunfel was included.

Brian. I agree with you re: agents-they shun the press until they can use them to their advantage. If they really wanted to keep negotiations private, they wouldn't talk at them at all. The press is partly at fault by giving them a forum..
Roch. I' agree that there hasn't been an off-season like this one, mainly because it's been so depressing! I've been an O's fan since the mid 60-s and in every year past, at least there has been a glimmer of hope. It's a sad state of affairs that the only move so far is to shed ourselves of our most productive player, with deals in the works to trade our fan favourite and best pitcher. We've sunk so far down that these moves are seen as progress!
As far as impact trades, I can remember the days when there weren't very many. You could count the new players on one hand and in 'the good old days' players were grateful to be acquired in a trade to Baltimore. Now, players turn down millions to sign here and snub their noses at contract extensions.
With the advent of free agency, players bounce from team to team and gone are the days when a guy stayed with a team his entire career. Often, our best pick-ups in trades were role players like Lowenstien, Ayala and Mora, who ended up playing key roles for us.

This is the best news I've heard in days. I believe Pieper's being honest. Lying would not serve his interests.

It also clarifies the puzzle a bit. Now we know, for certain, these things:

1) Adam Jones had a ticket to Baltimore Monday morning.

2) The trade was leaked.

3) It hasn't happened yet.

4) There are no ongoing negotiations with Bedard.

5) The reports we're reading, even on credible sources like mlb.com, can be entirely wrong and should thus be wholly dismissed.

Other O's fans, like me, have undoubtedly turned this into more than a trade. It's morphed into representing the future of our franchise under the MacPhail years. Understandably, we're nervous. We've grown less concerned with the players involved in the trade. We simply want MacPhail to have autonomy. And I think this is a fair and reasonable reaction. This is the first thing in days that's come out that's really pointed towards MacPhail. And I couldn't be happier.

PS- The Adam Jones conversation can be downloaded as an mp3 at the Seattle Times sports blog. You must listen. It really puts a light on the situation.

http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/mariners/entrevista_Adam_Jones.mp3

olney on the trade clearing up

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3224091

And now this piece of news:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3224091

We finally have an answer!

Buster Olney is stating the hold up is a rules issue, evidently what Jones stated to the press could mean that if he took the physical the O's would have to accept the trade.

Seems odd to me, but if true, would clear up what the issue holding the deal up is.

Evidently the M's are a bit concerned that if thier guys fail the exam by the O's it could lessen thier value to other teams.

Roch! I'm reading your blog in London! Cheers mate! They've got the @ where the " should be, so it took me forever to enter my info!

I love the O's 2008 slogan: "It could all change with one phone call."

I see it on buses, billboards, phone booths (natch!), skywriters, etc.

I'm off to the fish and chips and ales.

Roch,

Really nothing has much magitude about the current state of the Orioles. People who say (was it you?) that they couldn't sleep worrying about the deal are crazy.

The Orioles won't win with or without Bedard or any other one player. They have huge holes in the team that will take several years to fill.

The only thing that would be a huge positive change for the future of the Orioles is a change of ownership which I don't see happening. Too much money for Angelos.

We are just seeing that no matter who the GM is, the owner remains the same and so do the results.

Rich

If Bedard is resigned by the O's for the mega bucks we are hearing, the signing will remind me of the Yankees signing the great sub .500 pitcher Carl Pavano.
Bedard reminds me of a less self distructive Sidney Ponson.

Roch, Pieper’s statements are just another addition to this bizarre circus. Such a response isn’t the standard, we’re not discussing what may or may not be occurring, we’ve had some preliminary discussions, etc., but it's rather contentious. That $100 million must be the bag of money I mentioned previously. As for the dead body, I’m sure there’s a joke in there about different players on our roster or what we’ll end getting in return for Bedard--I’m just not going to make it.

Most of those trades you mention were more along the lines of building for the present instead of rebuilding for the future, which is obviously what a Bedard deal would be. Hopefully it’s not like the Eddie Murray trade because that was a bad one. Perhaps it’s more along the lines of Mike Boddicker multiplied by two or three. This time, though, we hold onto the Curt Schilling we get.

It’s hard to believe with what’s happened the last week we’re so close to spring training. By this time, I imagine there’s a bit of a lull because the roster is mostly set, and most of the talk is about spring training invitees we might not know about and should keep an eye on. If you’d asked me back in October, I couldn’t have predicted such a weird offseason for this team. I figured by this time, the club would’ve dealt several players or declared they were hanging on to them for now and maybe signed some more players.

If I had to give an award for biggest trainwreck and my choices were between Britney Spears and the Orioles' offseason.....

Without hesitation..I'm going with the O's. All this flip flopping around is making me feel dizzy. Can we just make a decision please?

PS: Is anyone else flipping excited that the SMOKING BAN starts tomorrow? Woo Hoo! Now I can go out and not have to worry about smelling like an ash tray! WOO!

Anthony - I'm sorry to disagree, but there is no way Bedard is a better pitcher than Mike Mussina when he was with the O's.

Not yet, anyway.

Now Buster Olney is saying part of the hold-up with the trade is a wording issue when Jones spoke about the trade on Sunday--It would be nice to know who really knows what nis going on?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3224091

Olney's just posted an article on ESPN.com. Seems that the trade hold-up wasn't completely (if at all) Angelos related...

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3224091

The bottom line is no one is capable of predicting the impact of a trade like this for, quite possibly, years to come. These Mariners prospects are just that -- prospects. Jones could have a immediate impact in 2008, take a season or two to adjust to an all-crab diet or leave baseball altogether for Scientology. As for Bedard, yes, he had a great 2008 but a simple blister could sideline him for half the season. All trades are gambles. That said, gambling on the future of these five or so Mariners as opposed to ANY one pitcher sounds like great odds in the O's favor. Do the deal, Mac!

I cant remember a trade of this same magnatude. We in the baby birds Oriole way years, would never, ever consider trading a 28 y.o pitcher with dominant stuff. He is a building block, Jones is not, Jay Bruce is, I would not do this trade for this package. I guess the closest would be 27 y.o. Milt Pappas for one of the very best players in history #20 and that is why this proposed Seattle deal leaves me cold.

I sincerely hope that this trade happens. I'm finding the wait fairly excruciating, though the thought that MacPhail has the guts to make such a bold move is very exciting. I have more faith in MacPhail than any GM we've had since the great Pat Gillick, and I hope that Angelos doesn't get in the way on any level along the way. May Brian Roberts be the next one out the door, if he brings another package of promise.

Please make this trade! As it stands now, the Orioles farm system makes "Mother Hubbard's" cubboard look appetizing!

How could you forget Boddicker for Brady and Schilling in '88?

Actually, weren't the Yankee trade that brought Demper, Tippy and Scotty and the Murray trade (one of the all-time worst Oriole trades) both IN-season trades?

I do not think this off-season compares to any previous ones because a cottage industry seems to have developed around the Bedard and Roberts deals not ever seen before.

Part of this is the volume of people who claim to have inside sources (and, thus, baseball Gnostics).

Another big part is the idea people can't seem to shake that anything on the Internet HAS to be a fact.

You can almost believe that if one of us went on to Oriole Hangout and posted that a source said the O's have reached a deal sending Bedard, Roberts, Lowen and Mora to Arizona for Webb, Hudson, Byrnes and Salazar it would be followed by 2 or 3 guys who add posts saying "My guy just texted me this will be announced at 3:52 PST!"

MLB.com will run a story citing sources on both teams. And all of the message boards will have threads stating the emphatic denials only prove it is true.

When the announcement doesn't happen there will be as many threads saying PA killed it because he doesn't like the fact Byrnes won't wear underwear.

In fact, I might just do it!

Anyone know if Bedard has commented anything at all during this long and annoying process? I am curious to his thoughts.

To me all-time deals that rank as historic must be memorable and involve all-star/Hall of Famers. They can be huge deals in retrospect too, which is certainly how the disastrous Davis trade makes the cut. If Harnisch, Schilling and Finely had not become solid players to studs, no one would remember that deal. The all-time top trade is clearly the one for Frank Robinson because of his status as one of the great all-time players. I don't think the Tejada trade makes the cut currently. As with the Davis trade, once the players the O's got establish themselves or fail, we can then properly judge the Miggy deal. I honestly don't recall any players the O's got for Murray. I don't think any other trades merit inclusion on the list, other than maybe the Roch's cited deal involving Singleton and McNally. A trade of Bedard in the same vein as the Miggy deal won't make the list until we can see what we got (assuming the deal gets made). If Jones becomes a stud CFer and Tillman an ace or No. 2 pitcher, it could go down as a great haul and make the list. If they don't, or Bedard has a middling career, no one will remember all this angst. Only time will tell. Just my opinion. Cheers

the eddie murray trade stands out in my mind. of course, i wore 33, and stole his batting stance, for my entire little league career. i can remember being about 11 or 12 and watching the o's play the tigers at memorial stadium. it was late in the game and dad took my friend and i down to the front row, right next the o's dugout. there was eddie, sitting on the top step; with ripken standing next to him. my friend and i shouted, and gave them the thumbs up. they both laughed, and returned the favor. easily one of my all time favorite memories.

i suppose the glenn davis stands out, too. not because of the results, but i remember the hype surrounding how many home runs he hit in houston, and how the expectations were for him to hit 50, or more, in baltimore. he was the key to our next pennant.

i would also put boddiker for brady up ther, too. i was a huge boddiker fan!!!

a question: i like pie and gallagher; but will there be more in return for roberts?? and if not, is that enough???

x is for please don't sign on the dotted line......

I do not see Tex signing with the Yankees. I think Boston, Detroit or LA will make bigger pushes if Atlanta does not resign him. I can also imagine the O's being in the mix.

But he bought a house near Atlanta, is a Tech grad, has friends and family there and Boros needs something to get back in the graces of both his clients and GMs all seem to point to him being a Brave for a while.

You know Roch...it is amazing that more people ahave not gone off at the joke this has become....people say this and that but how in the hell does the differentmedia types come up with such garbage and out it out there having not a clue if it is true or not...it is like their ego allows them to think they and or their conections and insiders know it all and they are right and know more than the other people blabbing....insane bull crap....and you got thrown in the fire as well....even though you are damn good at reporting what you know...never saying it is for sure and still got slammed about the hip thing and never even mentioned a name at all......I blame it on the O's for not releasing some sort of hints and truths along the way as much as possible without stepping on toes....of players involved...

Buster Olney is reporting on ESPN that the Bedard trade has been completed. Not that that means anything....

My trade history isn't that great, but wasn't the trade that brought Brady Anderson a pretty big trade? If I remember correctly, didn't that net us Shilling as well?? Not that he did much while he was with us.

When talking about how this off-season compares to others, this one is definitely near or at the top of the list in regards to ups and downs. But I think in terms of impact, this one doesn't compare as much as to the off season after the 1997 season when we lost Davey Johnson, and Gillick, or the off season when we all received a proverbial kick in a crotch as Mussina left for the Yankees.

What about Mike Cuellar for Curt Blefary. I rate Orioles trades with Houston:
Orioles 2 (Cuellar, Miggy)
Houston 1 (Glen Davis)

i saw texiera to the yanks coming from a mile away. it will hurt to see it but what can you do?

Roch, can you confirm Olney's lastest report that the holdup is Jones' comments that he's an O. The O's are worried that by saying that if he then fails a physical they are stuck with him and are waiting clarification. That is the holdup according to Buster.

I always liked the mega deal that brought McGregor, Tippy and Dempsey to Baltimore because it completed the transition (that had begun by trading away Frank Robinson in 72) from the late '60s and early 70s Orioles to the generation that eventually won the Series in '83.

Do you know what has struck me most about this off-season? After 10 years of frustration, losing and even embaressment, there is still alot of passion among O's fans. Most sane individuals would have moved on or given up. But even though there are disagreements over how the O's should proceed, we still care. Angelos hasnt ruined the fanbase yet. Serious DAP (nod to a recovering Wilbon) to all O's fans out there!

Buster Olney is reporting the real holdup with the Bedard trade and it has nothing to do with Angelos, check out this story:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3224091

How about Jeffrey Hammons for Willie Green? Or Scott Erickson for Klingenbeck? Brett Barbarie for Jay Powell? Conine for Fussell? Mike Bordick for Jose Leon?

All agents are scum when it comes to this kind of stuff. They work at the behest of the players, who increasingly care more about the money than the game. Remember, agents get a percentage of what a player gets. He's not taking a lesser deal for any reason. Bedard will go where the money is and that's not in Baltimore. For that matter, the same goes for Teixeira.

Roch,

I'm bery sorry to hear that you will miss your daughter's birthday. How old will she be?

Given the state of flux that the Orioles' roster is in, it should be an interesting workout (or shall I say, introduction to new members of the team)?

Regarding the Santana trade, I am a bit surprised that the Twins couldn't get more for him. Though, I can see why teams would not want to pay him $22-$25 million a year AND give up top prospects to get him. I think that the Twins did the best they could. In my opinion, they should have jumped all over the Hughes/Cabrera/prospect deal when it was offered. Hughes and Cabrera would have filled two big holes. If that trade was offered to Baltimore, I'd have to seriously consider it. They did get some pitching prospects from the Mets, though, and none of them are named Heilman, which is a good thing.

Trading Bedard is good if we get something in return. We want to trade the possible American League Cy Young winner for what ? A possible centerfeilder who may not be much better than Patterson who hit 270 with 35 steals & GREAT D. What else do we get ?? An old relief pitcher ??? I thought we were rebuilding !!!!! What do we want with him ???? Oh, we also get an 18 yr old that will take 4 years to develop if ever !!!!! Horrible Trade. If that's all we can get then sign Bedard for 5 yrs & move on !!!!! Just Don't give him away !!!!!!

In my opinion, letting Bedard go will fall somewhere between not finding a way to keep Harnisch and not finding a way to keep Schilling.

I could be crazy, but it sounds to me that the O's want to build around Tex. I mean if EB goes, and Brob, there will be a very low payroll.

Roch: Anything from Oriole scouts about the M's prospects? Specifically, we see the numbers, but are any of these players known in big games? Do scouts realize that big game players can get away with lower #'s, while guys with great numbers and tools can suck in big games, or in key situations in general?

If that's to long-winded call my editor.

This may vindicate Angelos...at least for this trade....

Source: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3224091

The Seattle Mariners and Baltimore Orioles may finally sort through a rules issue this afternoon, taking the next step forward to completing their long-discussed deal involving left-handed pitcher Erik Bedard.

The Mariners and the Orioles came close to completing the deal last weekend: Bedard for center fielder Adam Jones, pitchers George Sherrill, Chris Tillman and Tony Butler, as well as another player. The conversations progressed to the point that the Mariners informed two players central in the deal -- Jones and Sherrill -- that they needed to go to Baltimore for physical examinations.

When Jones was quoted as saying the deal was completed, this created a rules question, sources say: If the Jones went for his physical examination, would the Orioles then be beholden to accept him, even if the physical exam did not go well.

The Orioles have asked the Mariners for written language that Seattle will submit Jones and Sherrill for a physical examination by the Orioles -- and if they pass physicals, then and only then will Baltimore be obligated to finish the trade. The inherent risk for the Mariners is that if either Jones or Sherrill were to flunk their physicals in Baltimore, then the respective value of the players would be diminished within the industry.

Jones, 22, is regarded by scouts and executives with other teams as a rising star. "He's going to be a monster," said an AL talent evaluator. "If you put he and Nick Markakis in the same outfield, that is the start of something."

Bedard could help to make the Mariners' rotation formidable, joining Felix Hernandez, Jarrod Washburn, Carlos Silva and Miguel Batista.

Maybe some inkling of clarification at long last:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3224091

This is the big secret? Why can't thses guys just say this and put an end to all of this speculation???

The off-season is just a continuation of the nightmare of the on-season. Why should it be any different?

I never heard of this rule before, but I always assumed that all deals were contingent upon passing a physical.

ESPN is reporting that Adam Jones created a rules problem for the Orioles:
When Jones was quoted as saying the deal was completed, this created a rules question, sources say: If the Jones went for his physical examination, would the Orioles then be beholden to accept him, even if the physical exam did not go well.

The Orioles have asked the Mariners for written language that Seattle will submit Jones and Sherrill for a physical examination by the Orioles -- and if they pass physicals, then and only then will Baltimore be obligated to finish the trade. The inherent risk for the Mariners is that if either Jones or Sherrill were to flunk their physicals in Baltimore, then the respective value of the players would be diminished within the industry.

If the MLB story is indeed untrue, then it is absolutely reprehensible. A reporter can't just make up stories when there is nothing else to report. Whoever it is should be held accountable. This is exactly how the unwarranted Angelos bashing perpetuates. Don't get me wrong I'm not a fan of Angelos, but I feel the need to defend him when reporters badmouth him just for the sake of a story.

Ok, so whats it really matter if Bedard and Roberts are traded. Yes, we fill a hole here or there and add some lower level prospects to the system. We also produce 2 holes. Whos going to play 2nd?? Another semi-dependable starter gone. Too many people are focused on this trade to begin rebuilding. In my humble opinion, rebuilding doesn't start until we tear down the part of the team we don't want (Huff, Mora, gibbons, Millar, Payton, and Hernandez) These guys will east up 2/3 of the playing time on this team. Can we give these guys away? Bring up some kids, they might struggle, but they will get experience. We can see who's legitimate and who isn't.

If these trades happen, we have a couple young kids who may or may not have panned out when the Oriole's version of the idiots are gone. Then the FO will fill the holes with the exact same types of aging free agents unless Rowell, Snyder, Reimold, and Weiters pan out along with 10 "can't miss" pitchers. Look at the recent history of Orioles luck with prospects panning out, we'll be lucky if we end up with 2 solid major leaguers out of that group.

ESPN is saying that the trade may overcome several hurdles today with Oriole physicals for Sherrill and Jones. Any truth to this rumor and it's impact on what might happen today?

So now ESPN is reporting the hold up was language about the physicals for Jones and Sherril in the contract. The issue may be resolved and the trade could happen as soon as today.

Got to love the media for this...

I don't think we ever had as many "bigger" names in a deal at one time as when Don Baylor and Torres were traded to Oakland for Reggie Jackson and Ken Holtzman. Then of course Holtzman was the main piece (along with Elrod, Grant Jackson and Doyle Alexander) that went to NY in return for McGregor, Martinez, Dempsey and Rudy May. May was later sent to Montreal for Kerrigan and Don "Full Pack" Stanhouse.

Rusty:
It's actually O's 3, Astros 1. You're forgetting the deal that got us Lee May and Jay Schlueter from the 'stros for the immortal Enos Cabell and very mortal Rob Andrews.

If that story is true, I think everyone here needs to re-think why they are Orioles fans. I understand that people hate Angelos, hell, I'm one of them. But all this speculation about him vetoing trades and going over MacPhail's head seems to be just that. Coming to this blog just to bash Angelos is fun, maybe, but what purpose does it serve? MacPhail is quite obviously a deliberate guy, and if the story is true there is a reason the trade has yet to go down. The Orioles are under absolutely NO obligation to make every aspect of a trade public. The rampant speculation that has occurred over this trade, both in blog world and more traditional media, has frankly been pathetic, and everyone on this board has bought into it, hook line and sinker. I think we all need to take a step back, understand the season doesn't start for two more months, and see where this all goes.

This is interesting... Keith Law of Scouts Inc. offers his prospect rankings for 2008. Looking at the top-5 from each team one name is noticeably absent from the Seattle Mariners list: Adam Jones.
It could be that he is no longer eligible as a rookie, but I don't know enough about that.
I'm copying the top 5 for the teams that are of interest to O's fans.

Seattle
1. Carlos Triunfel, ss (18th overall)
2. Jeff Clement, c (44th overall)
3. Wladimir Balentien, rf (95th overall)
4. Chris Tillman, rhp
5. Juan Ramirez, rhp

Baltimore
1. Matt Wieters, c (14th overall)
2. Nolan Reimold, lf (39th overall)
3. Chorye Spoone, p (96th overall)
4. Radhames Liz, rhp
5. Troy Patton, lhp

Chicago Cubs
1. Josh Vitters, 3b (17th overall)
2. Geovany Soto, c (32nd overall)
3. Sean Gallagher, rhp (71st overall)
4. Josh Donaldson, c (76th overall)
5. Jose Ceda, p

Also, I thought it would be interesting to note the players recently traded to the Twins for Santana:

Carlos Gomez (35th overall)
Deolis Guerra (80th overall)
Philip Humber (not in top 100)
Kevin Mulvey (not in top 100)

I agree with Jennifer. Thank GOD for the smoking ban. In my county it has been in effect, but now it is everywhere in Md. I hated smelling like a cigarette & having to try & avoid the jerk at the bar that insisted on puffing away endlessly & leaving his cig dangling off to his side, inches from me... if he enjoyed it so much, leave it in front of him I always said!

Whatever the reason is for the holdup, it's still been a needless mess & typical of the O's. The dysfunction is still rampant, the dance partners are just slightly altered that's all....

It looks as though I was too hasty in my posting about Adam Jones not being in the top 5 of Seattle's rookie prospects.
This from Keith Law's chat session:

RGG (NYC): Hey Keith, did Adam Jones get too many ML at bats to be considered a prospect on your list?
Keith Law: (1:05 PM ET ) Yes, he no longer qualifies as a rookie by a mere 9 at bats.

Followed by this:

Jeff (Seattle): Where would have A. Jones ranked in the top 10 if he were eligible?? Top 10??

Keith Law: (1:20 PM ET ) Yes, I'd say top 10.

Also:

RGG (NYC): Adam Jones, George Sherrill, Chris Tillman and Tony Butler enough of a return for Bedard?

Keith Law: (1:51 PM ET ) Absolutely.

Roch,

A little business logic here (i.e., bottom line math).

If PA is more about creating increasing profit, and not as much about winning championships, here is a simple solution to the mess that is the Orioles' future.

1. Trade B-Rob, Bedard, and maybe others for whatever prospects you want. Prospects have to be known for heart, attitude, and "team" mindset.

2. Payroll comes way down, and team is even more profitable than it is now.

3. Lower the ticket, parking, and food prices dramatically which will attract a new generation of fans to what will be essentially a AAA-level team who the fans just might adopt as have other cities. Do a major PR campaign touting this. A new market opens up to the sons and daughters of Gen-X parents.

Any chance of Potter going this way at all? Maybe the cold weather has frozen my brain, but at least it's a plan. And it sure beats the prospect of a half-way drawn-out recovery, which is the certainty of all other plans I have seen.

Sherrill's not such as unvaluable guy. A hard-throwing lefty reliefer with good numbers, he made just half-a-mil last year and has three years before UFA. That's a heckuva lot cheaper than Baez, Walker, Bradford, et al. You'll get him for three more years for far less than you'll pay Baez to sit on his arm this year. If we get him, we keep him, and thus avoid having to offer a wheelbarrow full of cash to get some other guy to come to Baltimore.

As smooth as this went, I can't wait to see how the Roberts rumors play out!

Roch,

The difference between the Pappas and Robby trade is we were getting "proven" major league talent for a star pitcher. Here, we're not.

What looks the worst about this is the media. It seems first Angelos is to blame, then he's not, then Bavasi, then he's not, then Jones, then he's not.

I agree with Peiper about one thing, there is a lot of irresponsbile reporting going on here whcih is driving fans nuts. For example, the rumor that Tillman is included in this deal is enough to make any Oriole fan sick.

Bedard does not belong in the same company as F Robinson, E. Murray, or Mussina
Not even close, except in his own inflated opinion

Damian - I think you got a little mixed up.

Bordick went to the Mets for Melvin Mora, Lesli Brea, Mike Kinkade,and Pat Gorman not Leon, who came here for the Thrill. Bordick then came back the next year as a FA, so we got Melvin for free.

We sent Fussell to KC FOR Conine, not the other way around.

The Powell for Barberie trade is correct but, while Barberie did not distinguish himself here, Powell had an ordinary career....

The O's traded Klingenbeck and Kim Bartee FOR Erickson. Kling went on to an indistinguished 5 - 8 career and Bartee hit in the low .200's over 5 or 6 years in the bigs.

Hammonds for Greene was a wash. Hammonds had a HUGE season in Colorado (100+ RBI and a bunch of HR), but crashed and burned after that.

I just want the trade to get done if it's going to get done. This is dragging out longer than the year we were trying to sign Vlad... god that was frustrating.

And no, Jennifer, I'm not excited. I'm a non-smoker and hate smelling like smoke too... but I think this is nanny state BS. If bar owners want to allow their patrons to smoke, they should be able to. If you don't like it, you still retain the right not to go there.

But whatever, let's just let the government run our lives...

This is ALL laughable. Angleos is obviously meddling in baseball affairs & again standing in the way of progress.

He should not contact players on his own. Remember he did that w/ Mora? That worked out just super duper didnt it??

I say screw the M's and make a deal with the Cubs for both Roberts and Bedard. The Cubs are loaded with talented prospects such as pitcher Hill, Marshall, Guzman, Hart, and Petrick. They have a sure hit catcher in Jake fox. They have two infielders in Cedeno and Fontenot, and outfielders such as Pie, Murton, and Fuld. I am sure the Cubs would love to make a trade since the Mets will be signing Santana. If the Cubs want to have any chance of avoiding the 100 years of not winning a World Series, the will have to give up a lot for Roberts and Bedard.

Ianz- You hit the nail on the head. I'm still confused about everyone wanting to trade Bedard and BRob.

If they go, who is left besides SUPERSTAR MARKAKIS? Aging Mora, Drunk Huff, Fatty Hernandez, Juiced up Gibbons, Mr. Walky Cabrera.....shall I go on?

I'd rather see what we get for all of these guys, than trading our two best players. Seems silly to me. And to say that Bedard and B-Rob getting traded will drastically alter our payroll is just silly. Go to ESPN.com or MLB.com and look up the salaries of all our players. The crappy low lifes I mentioned earlier probably make up half our payroll. Dump the losers and pay for "real" talent. Or just give it all to Markakis, because if B-Rob and Bedard go, #21 is the only decent player we have left.... (wait also Guthrie).

And also why do some of you hate Bedard so much? Is it because he's quiet and hates talking to the press? Or because he's so good and you know he deserves to be paid more and you just can't stand that?

I SAY EXTEND THE MAN! HE'S FUN TO WATCH! SAME WITH ROBERTS!

Lee Harrison - Geez, calm down! Bedard did not compare himself to these guys! He may act the way he does because he doesn't feel he deserves the acclaim he gets. (Or he may just be a jerk....)

Also, no matter what you think, the rest of the baseball world sees him as 2nd to Santana in MLB as a LH starter. That is what really matters.

Lastly, Bedard's relative value to his team is more than that of FRobby or Murray to their teams.

The O's traded Robby and were in the playoffs in '73.

The trade of Murray hurt, but the bigger problem was EBW thinking he was Connie Mack and forced the acquisition of guys like Niedenfuer, Mike Morgan, Terry Kennedy and Jeff Stone - they would have stunk in '88 with or without him and he might have not been that big a difference in '89.

(What is the deal with lawyers who own teams?)

We saw what happened to the O's without Bedard last August and September.

roch,check out espn they have an update on the trade.Buster Olney say's its going to go down today,they are working on a rules issue.

Why is WJFK 1300 reporting that Mlbtraderumors.com says PA is trying to negotiate a deal with Bedard when the site not saying that?

They just linked 1 article (out of 5) that said this, and it is almost buried in the small print:
that:http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

Roch - get over there and slap some sense into them!!

I love when some uninformed blogger chimes in having missed news they are wondering if anyone has heard about. For example, above is a post that says, "Anyone know if Bedard has commented anything at all during this long and annoying process? I am curious to his thoughts." This has got to be a joke, right? Microsoft might as well invent keyboard keys that can be used to express writers' tones. That post was priceless. By the way, I'm sick of this saga. Tuning out nov

The reason for the holdup seems to have been Jones himself. It was he who disclosed the deal and his pending physical.

The problem is easy to understand. If the Orioles examine Jones and he is not to their liking ... AND can squash the entire deal accordingly ... it would have a negative impact on the value of Jones to both, himself and the Mariners. Typically, if "damaged goods" are involved in a trade, a grievance is filed and the two teams work it out between them or through an arbitrator.

If this seems backwards to you, consider what happened a few years back with a free agent pitcher and, ironically enough, the same two teams. (This is free agency rather than a trade, but it illustrates why physicals need to be done on the hush or AFTER a trade is consumated.)

On January 6, 2000, Aaron Sele signed a four-year contract with the Baltimore Orioles. Two days later, the deal was taken off the table because he failed the Orioles' exam. Three days after that, the Seattle Mariners -- whose GM was Pat Gillick and whose manager was Mike Hargrove -- signed Sele to a two-year deal for half the money.

The deal cost Sele around $15 million initially. He went on to pitch eight more years, however.

If the Orioles see micro-tears or whatever that frightened them with Sele but other teams shrug their shoulders, it still would not stop devaluing the player examined.

This, being a legal matter, raises the question on who is involved and in what capacity. Personally, who says what is like a presidential debate -- it may be interesting but I am not inclined to believe any of it on face value.

Bobby Ballgame.... you have some good pts about potter & his aims & mission, based on his actions for 10+ years. One thing you can count on though... he won't lower ticket prices or concession & parks costs either. He will stop voiding trades before he does that stuff. The bottom line IS the bottom line with potter....

Last I checked in Maryland they did build ENCLOSURES that literally separated out smoking from non smoking.

So now all that capital is wasted. If i was a business owner i'd be downright pissed.

Funny the state wants gambling for more revenue, yet i guarantee refenues will go down with the smoking ban in effect. (see new york)

The best ban should be to eliminate CELL PHONES from idiot drivers. (also see new york city)

As for trades, I'm not sure which, others above have covered that pretty well.

N is for Nicotine (or New York)

Good call Anonymous. I was surprised by everyone's failure to mention the Lee May for Enos Cabell trade.

I moved to Texas (and Houston, of all places) in January '91 and was at work when I heard the Birds had traded Finley, Harnisch and Schilling for Davis. I was dumbfounded, against the trade and immediately felt it would serve as the equalizer to the O's prior trades/fleecing of the Astros. The baseball gods surely did not disappoint in making my forecast come true. At least it gave me a rooting interest in the 'Stros that first year.

I sure was wrong about Kansas yesterday. What ever I predict, go the other way. I predict Kansas will win it all. Roberts will not be traded. Jones will be a disappointment. Huff will hit 20 + hr's. About Earl Williams, Earl Weaver said to the front office, " get me Earl Williams and we will win the pennant." Come to find out that Williams came from Atlanta where Hr's were fariley easy [ proof, Davey Johnson ] but had warning track power here [ our old park.] Earl was wrong. Earl thought at least 40 or more easily. Da!!

Why the backpedaling on Bedard? Simple. Embarrassment. As pathetic as this whole will-we-trade-him-will-we-not scenario has been, I think there's a concern that the Orioles will be an even worse laughingstock if Bedard goes elsewhere, leaving the Orioles with potentially the worst rotation in Bird history. I'm a fan, so I wish for the best, and one really hopes that Cabrera will stop walking people and that Guthrie will build on what he did last year and that Loewen continue to show that Yankee-killer prowess that had us all excited, but those are alot--and I mean ALOT--of BIG maybes, a heckuva lot of pressure to toss on a team with more holes than wool jacket at a moth convention. Without Bedard, this team could lose 120 games. Naturally, they won't win anything with Bedard, but perhaps the "car wreck" won't be so bad with him. That may be what's going through Angelos's mind, and it's a viable concern. Plus, remember, Bedard is still in his 20s. If he stays healthy ala Mussina, he might be pitching in the big leagues for 10+ more years and we have GOT to hope the Orioles are contenders by THEN. Trading Roberts, given his age, makes a lot more sense.

Roch,

Any truth to the rumor mentioned on SI's website that the Indians contacted the O's late in the game about Bedard, and made an offer? If so, any clue who was included in the offer?

How about Julio and Maine for Benson?

Being in Seattle, I find this fascinating. There are mixed feelings here as well, though no doubt the Mariners need the pitching. Giving up Jones and some very promising players, is not easy. From what I can gather, it seems the Orioles management double-clutches on deals--is it the owner or something else? I don't know, but it's got to be a tough way to run a club. I understand your frustration.

Roch,

Could you find some information about The O's Games in HD this year? If Angelos has his way the orioles will hold on to Bedard in hopes of signing him to a low ball offer and then it will be two years later and he will leave as a free agent. Although I think McPhail will get his way and a deal will get done by next week.

I'm not sure why McPhail, Angelos and the Orioles are taking a PR bath for this one. It seems it's Seattle that leaked the trade too early. And the press is just speculating and filling column inches. McPhail is being punished for the Orioles pas incompetence but is it justified now? I really don't think so.

1) Bedard hasn't come close to what Mussina did while he wore an O's uniform. Granted, Mussina was our ace for more than 2 years, so the only fair assessment would be judging the two based on their performances to this point in their careers (Bedards current service time, or total starts, IP etc... several ways you could go).

2) I really hope the trade gets done, as I like everything I've seen from Adam Jones, regarding his attitude, ("If I'm going to be in Baltimore, then I'm going to have the best time of my life playing MLB"). That's a great start. If the "insiders" are to be believed, a Jones-Markakis-_____(Reimold?) OF will be one of the best in the league in 2-3 years.

3)Forget Texeira. His only tie to the area is, he grew up here. As far as anything else goes- he's a Boras guy (business is always first), a life-long Yankees fan, and has shown no interest or intention of being an Oriole to this point in his career. I wanted him worse than anything, but once I read where his head really is, and how (un-important) it is for him to play in Baltimore, I forced myself to accept it's not going to happen... at least not while he's in his prime.

Once we make all of the trades to become young and hopeful for the future, why would Teixeira sign with the O's when they figure to be in last place for at least 2 years? He'd look great in an O's uniform but it doesn't make sense for him when he can sign with a team that is in contention now. Besides, our best hitting prospects play his position so he'd be blocking them.

Better to put that money in the overseas player development and/or sign players to fill the abyss in the middle infield positions.

M's just signed Brad Wilkerson (after losing out on Luis Gonzalez). Could be a sign that they're confident the trade will go through and open an OF spot.

Rock my friend it is important to make note of the fact that the Braves will no longer have TBS money. They are now a mid market team. So when our buddy Frank W. says he is concerned about a long term deal with Teixeira it is with good reason. Keep up the good work. Cheers from your fan from another paper.

He may not be J Bench behind the plate, but at least the Nats go do SOMETHING when a need arises.... take note potter/MacFail...

The Nationals finalized terms Thursday on a 2008 contract with free-agent catcher Johnny Estrada.

Estrada, 31, is a career .280 hitter with 129 doubles, 42 home runs and 281 RBIs in 589 Major League games over seven seasons. He previously played with Milwaukee, Arizona, Atlanta and Philadelphia.

Estrada's best season occurred in 2004 with Atlanta when he hit .314 with 36 doubles, nine home runs and 76 RBIs and represented the Atlanta Braves and the National League in the All-Star Game.

Julia - The O's are taking a PR bath because PA has made his reputation so sullied in the media that people jump at the chance to slap him around a little.

He has driven the franchise down with his inept decisions and he responds with defending his decisions with a 5,000 treatise that would make William Jennings Bryan's head spin. He has no hubris.

We all see what he is doing but are powerless to do anything about it. Many people respond to this with loathing.

Some of the stories about PA are pure fiction (i.e. - he constantly vetoes GOOD trades, he operates as a co-GM) but many people find them easy to believe because of impulsive moves like the Belle signing and the Mora and Gibbons deals (of course, many of the same people slamming PA for the Mora deal were among those praising it when it was announced....).

If the O's won games PA would be regarded like Steinbrenner in the media. But they don't. At the same time, PA is such an arrogant and self-important individual that even if the team were winning like in the 60's and 70's almost as many fans would still hate him.

The curious thing is we see other teams act stupidly but seem to escape the derision PA gets for things he did not even do. (Ex: Seattle handles this whole trade in an unpr