This whole thing is starting to turn into a whole load of BS. What seems to be our problem?

Well I guess they wouldn't be wrong. Technically no trade is completed until after Jones takes his physical.
I hope.

Nice try. Jones is an Oriole. Book it!

ANGELOS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well Roch, no one (including the Seattle Times) has really said the trade has been COMPLETED. That doesn't happen until physicals have been passed, paperwork filed, etc. So, I'm not surprised that the O's once again have issued a denial. Here's the real question: is it your feeling that the trade is close and will be completed once physicals are taken, or is everything said by Jones and in the Seattle Times simply incorrect? I don't know how that could be, but nothing surprises me when it comes to the Orioles' brain trust.

"Well I guess they wouldn't be wrong. Technically no trade is completed until after Jones takes his physical."

It would still be agreed in principle pending physicals. To say it isn't done means that an agreement wasn't made.

I'm from Venezuela where Adam Jones is playing winter league and haven't find any comment in the local media about Jones leaving his team (Lara Cardinals, playing the league championship series, tied at 2). However, the references about his manager's name and the mentioned media (Panorama) are real ... i will keep looking and post what i can find.

Funny Ken Rosenthal has reported this is basically complete...

Roch buddy, read between the lines. Adam Jones himself said he was traded to Baltimore. It would be tough to misunderstand your GM calling you and saying you've been traded. Not a whole lot of ambiguity in that conversation. Of course it's not "complete" until physicals have been taken.

Lucas, Ken Rosenthal cited the Seattle Times report. If the Seattle Times report is wrong, Ken Rosenthal is wrong.

To be more exact, MacPhail says no agreement is in place. Physicals have nothing to do with that. Sure sounds close. Again, just speculating, but maybe Jones was told to be prepared to fly to Baltimore and he told a reporter he was definitely going. We have no way of knowing, but MacPhails says he wouldn't expect Jones to be in Baltimore tomorrow.

So if a trade isn't complete until physicals are taken, I guess every reporter on the Orioles beat will be doing whatever they can to get the scoop about whether Jones is actually in town tomorrow. The O's almost have to trade Bedard before Opening Day after dangling him out there all offseason. Same with Roberts. You can't have them back in the clubhouse after going through that and thinking they were finally out of here.

...I think the trade happens because Bedard's value is as high as it can possible get and his Sun comments burned the bridges.

This is so typical of the Orioles and is the exact reason why they garner ZERO respect throughout the industry. Even if Jones did speak out a bit prematurely, why is he flying home and missing his playoff game? We know for certain that he was TOLD to fly home by Bavasi. That has to mean something, and yet MacPhail continues to issue denials. Now, maybe this deal will indeed get done in the next few days, but for now, the situation is no different than in past years with Duquette or Beattie or Flannagan or Thrift. The Orioles simply don't get deals done, and all they do is tick everyone off -- the fans and trading partners -- in the process. Did Angelos nix the deal? Is MacPhail so indecisive that he still can't pull the trigger? I don't know, and we may never know. All I do know is this reputation continues to exist and will not change until the Orioles' actions prove otherwise.

You can hire a first class GM in AF, but that does not automatically change your team from being a mickey mouse operation. If Adam Jones is in fact on his way to Baltimore for a physical, why not acknowledge this to the local fan base who supports the Orioles. The same people the ownership is asking to support a ticket price increase for the coming season!

Boomer -- I couldn't disagree more on Bedard's comments. He even indicated that a contract extention with the Orioles wasn't out of the question. Yes, I know he said he didn't want to be part of a "rebuilding team," but that's subject to interpretation.

Consider: Teixeira only signed for one year with Atlanta, so if the O's could sign him at the end of the season I doubt Bedard would oppose THAT kind of rebuilding!

Even if the trade doesn't happen, how good is Adam Dunn? Tell me about this guy. Was he the home run guy for the Reds a few years ago? I don't know anything anymore.

If this is all fake, my heart will be broken.

It's obvious that Jones didn't realize he wasn't supposed to "let the cat out of the bag" until all was said and done apparently, but what is the use in keeping the fans in the dark other than to end up alienating us even more?

Does Andy really expect us to believe that Jones was told that he was a part of a deal and that he was heading here for a physical and he (andy doesn't have any clue why that would be?) Or is it because the Orioles didn't get ahold of Erik in time to tell him that he's been traded and so they'll deny until they get that straightened?

All this speculation is getting tiresome REAL fast.

I'm about fed up with this drama.

Jeff Zrebiec is updating his story on The Sun's Web site. I don't want to trump him so be sure to check later tonight. Maybe all of this will become a little clearer.

Roch,

I appreciate the professional approach but even you made mention earlier that this trade is likely or close when you mentioned the players showing for spring training. What holds these things up like this? This close that most are reporting it being so close, the players seemed identified, do the O's have to identify those being dropped from the 40 man roster simultaneously to the trade?

Sorry, I'm tired and I was thinking Adam Dunn and not Adam Jones. Yikes! I'm getting dizzy. Tell me more about Adam Jones. Why is he a good catch?

Noone said the trade was completed. I'd give it an 80% probability at this point.

If this deal ultimately does not go down, I see an AT&T commercial in Bavasi and Jones's future.

"Hey Adam it's Bill. Just wanted to tell you the news. I traded you to Baltimore for Erik Bedard in my keeper league. You know, the Baltimore Barons....

A dropped call can ruin a conversation."

The 2008 O's pitching staff could've looked like the following: Bedard, Maine, Loewen, Guthrie, and Cabrera- not too shabby. Instead, we've traded Maine and probably Bedard. Does this organization realize the importance of developing and keeping your young pitchers? Tampa Bay gets it. Next will be BRob for some crapshoot pitchers. Why do these other organizations sign their stars to long term deals.? The Orioles should be concentrating on signing their studs versus rolling the dice on some potential players. I'd rather have the sure thing.

Josh: BRILLIANT!

Roch,

When do columns/articles need to be submitted by...in other words should I stay up for a half hour or will I not see it tonight/

The story was just filed. It should be on the Web site shortly. The Sun is pretty good about posting stories quickly.

Happy birthday to a gentleman who knows and loves baseball, Keith (Give Me an O) Olbermann.

Hey Roch:

How long does it take MacPhail to order lunch?

If this trade was fake I'm done being an O's fan.

Following a losing team is one thing, but being jerked around like this is completely wrong to the fans.

Brett -- You're right about pitching. I said when the O's traded John Maine to the Mets that they'd regret it, and now he's become a quality hurler and Kris Benson was a bust for the O's.

That Andy MacPhail wants to get rid of a pitcher of Erik Bedard's proven ability in exchange for a crap shoot of prospects who may never make it in the majors isn't too inspiring. (Sure Adam Jones is supposed to have all this potential, but so does Corey Patterson.)

Trading Miguel Tejada I can see, but as you suggest, developing and keeping top notch talent is how to build (or rebuild) a winning team. Mark my words, this deal, should it happen, will come back to bite the Orioles--Frank Robinson in reverse.

Because... don't deals have to get approval from the MLB offices? No one home there late at night on a Sunday...

Deals don't have to be approved by MLB unless $1 million or more is part of the transaction.

Thanks roch, but this is killing me waiting...is it really going to be worth the wait??????

Confirmed by local Venezuelan media (http://el-nacional.com/www/site/detalle_noticia.php?q=nodo/12650) where Luis Sojo manager of Lara (remember him with the Yankees 2B) express how difficult will be for his team deal with the absence of A. Jones.

Ken & Brett,

I have to respectfully disagree. Bedard was going to walk, and I am sure the same could be said about Roberts. Get what you can now and rebuild, not just fill holes with castoffs and get outbid for missing peices. Bedard should put up great numbers in Seattle but was not going to turn this team into a winner. At least for the 1st time in many years the O's have a direction, we may disagree on that direction, but at least it is a direction. One other thing, Angelos would not have trusted other GM's to do what AM is doing, maybe he too is turning for the better. PA has never been shy about spending money, unlike other owners, I believe this is the 1st step to getting the O's better for the long haul and not just trying to break 500.

Well, we're not talking life-altering. It's just further confirmation on the Orioles' side that there's no agreement. And the Orioles insist that Jones isn't headed here, which is really interesting since people outside the organization are saying Jones is on his way.
This could lead to an awkward exchange at the elevators!

Kind of interesting. Updated at 10:44 also

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/jon_heyman/01/27/scoop.bedard/index.html

Roch you would tell us if Jones is coming right? Because as in the new post it does say not uncommon for teams to deny a trade before physical.

The updated version of Jeff's story is on The Sun's Web site. He had a team source also saying no agreement has been reached and talks are ongoing. He also has Mark Pieper, Bedard's agent, saying he hasn't been notified of a deal. Why would Jones be told, but not Pieper or Bedard? Very strange.

Brett- While it would be nice to keep Roberts and Bedard around, they're both in the prime of their careers right now and not going to be worth the money when we would actually have a shot at winning with them. Roberts is 30 and Bedard will be 29 on opening day. MacPhail has looked at the roster and (I think rightly) concluded that we are at least two years away from competing. In order to keep those two around, it will take a total of $25-30 million annually to buy out their free agency and they will both be in their decline phases by the time we're relevant again in 2010 or 2011. Bedard's value will never be higher and if we can get 2 significant prospects and assorted spare parts, I definitely think we should.

Adam Jones hasn't established himself yet, but was penciled into the Seattle starting lineup, so I think it's fair to be excited about him. We don't know who else is included, but it sounds like we're going to get at least one of Seattle's 3 best prospects in Clement, Tillman and Morrow.

As far as John Maine goes, I liked that trade then, and even with hindsight, I won't second guess it. The guy has average stuff and had given no indication that he would be anything more than a 5th starter or swing man. We wanted to dump Julio, and in exchange we got a very solid year out of Kris Benson. Having him break down wasn't surprising, but it was a bit of bad luck. I still maintain that if John Maine was in the AL East, he would have about a 5.00 ERA. Not a terrible fifth starter, but easily replaceable. We probably got the short end of that trade in the long run, but it wasn't a particularly big loss.

The way to beat the Yankees and Red Sox is not to try to outspend them by keeping all your veterans. It is to build around 4 or 5 young position players and 2 or 3 young pitchers (Guthrie and a slew of minor league arms to choose from). You need to build up young talent that is cheap (you can have 10 guys with less than 3 years service time for the cost of Brian Roberts). We have Markakis and now, theoretically, Jones. Weiters, Reimold, Rowell, and Snyder are all promising, so I actually have optimism that we have a decent core in place.

I haven't had this much excitment about the O's in years. This is good stuff.

Got to agree with Rob here ... not only is this not a crap shoot of prospects, but also - what's the alternative? If you're lucky, you get two more very good years out of Bedard, keep the Devil Rays in fifth place, and then what? Bedard walks, we get nothing for him, and we're in no better position to compete than we are today. It's that kind of thinking - combined with patchwork free agent signings and trades (including the Kris Benson deal) - that have landed the O's in this decade-long mess to begin with. If you're going to rebuild, you have to do it right - by tearing the thing down, bringing in young talent and severing ties with talented players who arent part of your long-range vision. Sad as I will be to see him go, Bedard fits into that category. This has to get done.

What's pretty sad is when all is said and done as a fan you're more likely to believe the stories coming out of other organizations than your own.

Roch, answer an insider question for us. Does Jon Heyman actually have any way of knowing inside sources in Baltimore?

Does he have any reason to write, "but late word Sunday night is there's still some internal debate in Baltimore over the deal"?

Or is he purely speculating so he can imply Angelos is nixing this one?

I hope Angelos nixes this mess. If Tillman ,a losing pitcher in A ball, and Sherill are the 2 and 3 parts of the trade. Just a disaster. Why people are so obsessed with trading away the 2nd best lefty in the American League for a package that includes no A prospects is beyond me. Has anyone actually looked at Tillman's record?

Rob -- I know the arguments for trading Bedard, but neither you nor I can say what he would or wouldn't do if the Orioles improve significantly in the next two years.

I don't entirely disagree with what MacPhail is doing, but I do know that wholesale changes should not include dumping your best pitcher for chump change. Bedard's in his prime and can be part of the answer for the long haul. If you want the team to get better, start with pitching!

Was I the first [ no doubt ] to ask for Jones 2 months ago? No biggie. My better prediction is about [ for the last 3 years ] what will happen to my boy at Ohio U after this year? MMMM!

I'll be bummed to see Bedard go, but more disappointed if this deal does happen.BRob can be next, then the slew of overpaid underproducing vets can hopefully find their way out of town, they can then say the rebuilding has officially begun...I just can't complain about trading a good pitcher who probably won't stay and getting 4 or 5 young guys back. This rebuilding thing is not a one year deal. The O's are further away from being even a respectable team than a good lefty and second baseman.
Now playing: Deal, Grateful Dead(or pick your own version)

Roch - I do not understand the conflicting information.

Look at this Seattle blog: http://prospectinsider.com/

Why is every media outlet in Seattle saying it is a done deal if there is no deal?

Me again. Anita's in Az. covering the GAME when she has to have you call in about the O's. Timing, timing. Go girl. Here is what's happening. Go Roch!

My take--The Orioles blew the PR opportunity to stay ahead of the media on this one. All they would have had to do is alert the media that they are in final negotiations with another team and pending notification to the players inolved, physicals and the actual signing of contracts both teams hope to be able to make an announcement of significant magnitude to both perhaps as early as xxx. Sports media hang out at the Yard in their vehicles for 72 hours and so do some fans as the roachcoach keeps them in snacks until the big announcement can be made. Public caining of the O's PR dept should follow.

Well, Thank you once again to my brethren who responded and/or read my post. I will try to make this one much more brief. (We can only hope!)

Anyway,.....
To Jerry D(fan since '69) and TerryP thank you for the response and the compliment.
TerryP - I agree with your point completely, especially about Payton and Gibbons. We all know Payton came here for money and we were, of course foolish to give it too him. I want them gone desperately and feel your pain about finding somebody, anybody, to replace them. I just don't want it too be at a possible talented young players expense, that's all (though I know, we all know, that would be more exciting).

To Adam H - Very good point about the directions of the teams in the AL East. I do feel we have a direction, just an INCREDIBLY S-L-O-W one. But my mother always taught me "patience is a virtue", unfortunately we O's fans have had to have an abundance of it for TOO LONG.

To JPA - My friend, I have not read all of your previous posts so I apologize If I misrepresented any previous points you have made. Very good post. My definition of "true" or "real" fan....well I agree with your feelings and sentiment that "true" and "real" fans can have a passion in a negative way, especially if it is deserving, but for me though, I have to blame my grandfather. His passion for his teams were, "to the death". Basically, a marriage (dear god, help). For better or worse, in sickness and in health. Let's face it, the O's have been sick and in bad health for a while now, but I still have my head held up high (I know, crazy), wear my O's hat and shirt, and I will defend them to the end (I only get mean, if they are attacked for no other reason but with a malicious intent or to be arrogant) with healthy and intelligent debate. I do feel MacPhail is making changes, but just very slowly (especially in an O's fans perspective). Also, fair point on the "MASN" money. I can honestly say, I don't know what the deal is, if we are using it or not. I can only HOPE that we at least will, for that would be the biggest "insult" to ALL of us. JPA, I also noticed another post of yours and say you have a good point about what seems to be the "status quo" so far this offseason, especially about Dotel. But I can see the neccessity for an experienced closer with the young and unproven arms in the 'pen, but he still wouldn't have been here for more than a year (maybe an option). Thats why he went to the White Sox, more money and length of contract. Remember, lesser known or talented people may have been signed so far, but none of them are "guaranteed anything" (even Quiroz might not make it despite a ML contract), they have to EARN it. I can only take consulation with that thought.

To CRB - Thanks, and good post my friend (by the way, were you trying to hide from me, I almost missed it, lol), I agree, what you see, is what you get. Unfortunately, we haven't "got" anything good for a while. I can truly understand your sentiment, I guess my optimism overwhelms me (understated), but I love baseball and my O's (wow, I need help).

Well, my friends thank you all for the responses, I hope to conversate with any of you at another time. Everybody have a great weekend!......And TomD - I'm hoping you return a response from my previous post (it's under "Trivial Matters"). I would love to get into a good debate with you about your points and perspective, you seem, to me at least, to be very intelligent in the way you make your point, whether I agree with it or not. Hope to hear from you!

Go O's!! - The "Real" Tru O's fan (man, didn't I say I was gonna keep this short, I gotta lay off the coffee or start breathing "in" occasionally)

Do you guys realize that it's not the O's jerking the fans around. It is the mlb rumor mill and it is wrong more than it's right? Stop falling for the same tricks. A deal isn't done until they schedule a press conference.

I'm hearing that these are the four players in the trade from Seattle, if/when it gets finalized:
Adam Jones, OF, 22
Chris Tillman, RHP, 19
George Sherrill, LHP, 30
Kameron Mackolio, RHP, 23
This is from the Seattle Post-Intelligences' Mariners blog.
I really hope we can get Triunfel from them, but this is a nice haul. MacPhail is certainly concentrating on young pitching!

This team is becoming impossible to like. Its frustrating enough to know that we are going to have to sit through at least 3 years of rebuilding, but even more frustrating that we have to wait though an entire offseason for this rebuilding to begin.

This offseason has been a microcosm of the Orioles ever since we signed Tejada, Javy, and brought Sir Sidney back. Alot of talk and hope, and seemingly nothing to back it up. I hope that something gets done, but the way the Bedard process has been handled, like the O's themselves, is a joke.

Boys and girls -

Relax! If this deal goes down as it looks like its going to, it won't matter if it happened on January 27 or 28 or 29... It will matter that it happened in January (i.e. in the offseason).

Exciting things are happening. Let's not blow a fuse just yet. MacPhail needs to get absolutely as much as possible for such a deal to make sense.

Patience!

Can we get to some important business here?

How are things coming along on signing Steve Trachsel?

This team needs more number five starters!

And, more yet out of Seattle:

http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/mariners/2008/01/more_on_jonesbedard.html

This deal is gonna go through. Its a no brainer and exaclty what we need. I think we will all enjoy watching this young outfield develop and eventually win together. If it goes through than way to go. Andy MacPhail is gonna look like a genius once Bedard is exposed as a solid but not dominant pitcher.

2010

Brian Roberts 2B
Adam Jones CF
Nick Markakis RF
Mark Texiera 1B
Matt Wieters C
Billy Rowell 3B
Brandon Snyder DH
Nolan Reimold LF
Luis Hernandez SS

Adam Lowen
Radhames Liz
Jeremy Guthrie
Matt Albers
Brandon Erbe

Chris Ray

A guy can dream right?

If the deal with Seattle for Jones goes through, then the O's must follow through with the rumored Brian Roberts to Cubs deal. We need veteran starting pitching without Bedard....I certainly can't understand how we compete in '08 with the same starting pitchers or actually a worse group. If we don't replace Bedard with a new veteran arm, we are hurting our chances in the annual battle with Tampa Bay for the AL East basement.

Hey Roch, can you add some details here? One of the players supposedly involved in the Bedard trade was plucked from one of the independent leagues last year and signed a contract, wanting to be "a Mariner for life." What about the others? A couple have been named, but press accounts say one more "may be added."

Hey Roch, the guessing game in Seattle has focused on these names for Bedard: Jones, Sherrill, Tilllman and a guy named Kameron Micklio, a 6'9' pitcher that nobody seems ro recognize. Your crystal ball getting any clearer?

And speaking of pallindromes, the first time Jones is on with Anita Marks, he should say, "Madam I'm Adam."

Is there any chance that this is not official because pete angelos hasn't signed off on it yet? I wonder at what point does Andy MacPhail need to slink into pete's office and kiss the ring to get approval for trades? Before physicals or after?

Oh it's going to be an interesting day!!!

roch,

did you see geoff baker's latest blog. He is defending his story, much like you are. Both of you are putting your reputation out there a bit. The person that is wrong should be sent to florida to cover the marlins.

http://prospectinsider.com/2008/01/27/jones-bedard-deal-99-percent-done/

Roch,

If this articule is correct that is an awful lot of talent for Bedard. I wanted to see Clement in the deal but you can not argue with the group coming. IF AM pulled off this deal then hats off to him. Soon O's will be the rumored destination for all tradeable all-stars based on their minor league talent level alone. Should be fun.

There's a whole lot of posturing going on and it looks like the Mariners and a few agents are trying to force the Orioles' hand. That may be a good thing but I like that AM has not deviated from his original path (at least that's all from an outside perspective). I am glad he is still negotiating and that we are not sleepwalking into ST.

As for Bedard, he is a quirky but very calculating individual. Those comments the other day were made for a reason and it was NOT because the O's FO hurt his feelings. As Roch said, it was semantics but there was also some intention there to get the typically slow-moving O's to *%&t or get off the pot. If the guy can get his money and find his way to a contender, then his agent has done his job. So, don't take it personally folks when he insinuates that it's time to leave Baltimore. And no, Ken, he doesn't want to be here.

I would love for this trade to go down. I would certainly renew my season ticket plan; otherwise, I would just watch it on TV if we didn't make a wholehearted attempt to get better.

More from the left-corner-pocket coast:
http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/mariners/2008/01/more_on_jonesbedard.html

Roch, is this your read, too?

This has Angelos written all over it. Get ready for a disappointing day fans.

Well it would appear Bedard forced the trade, via his little "talk" with Jeff Z., that he wanted & that MacFail finally blinked....
Don't any of you find it interesting that Bedard was willing to be interviewed at THIS time? He runs from the press after a game he has pitched, jets out of town at the end of the year with weeks to go in the season with an "injury", BUT he grants a long interview in late Jan. ,days before MacFail's stated "deadline" for deals to be made before "they head in around direction..." Doesn't this all look just a tad self serving to any of you?
Other than Jones, the rest of those names are just roster fodder..... not so much for a top lefty starter if you ask me.... I would have insisted they take Payton off our hands at least OR included someone else useful now.

Here's hoping the hold up IS that cash is involved, requiring the commissioner's approval. And that the cash represents payment of the bulk of Payton's contract and he's going to Seattle, too, as added outfield depth since they're dealing Jones.

Unless there is another team out there for Bedard, this is the best we are going to get. O's could ruin a wet dream

you want to win TRADE--bedard,roberts,gibbons,d.cabrera,payton,mora and add don baylor,jim palmer and paul blair to replace crowley,mcgregor and moe hill.sign fogg-p tony clark-1b and royce clayton-ss.

orioles sign fogg,armas,t.clark and clayton