NOOOOO.... Fiorentino? NOOOO

N is for N-O.

Why not DFA Payton instead?

Bad move on the Orioles part. Roberson will never hit well enough in the majors to be anything more than a 5th OF/PR type.

And, when this organization is short of position players in the farm system, what do they do? They dump one of them in Fio.

n is for the ninnies running the O's

Wow! With the acquisition of Roberson for 2008, they ensured the division championship, (NOT). Every year they keep acquiring and signing washed up, never was losers for the Orioles. What ever happened to the Orioles of old?

Not impressed. Next!

Hello Chirs, meet Norfolk.

How does this help the team at all...why not re-sign Patterson instead. For that matter, why not just keep Fiorentino pegged for center field -- seems like a better option then DFAing him. Roberson just does not seem to make any sense for a team with several 4th or 5th outfielders on it already.

O's drop a 24 year old to add a 28 year old. You have to wonder what happens if Bedard is traded for three players. Who is dropped then? Probably the 28 year old.

Ben--the fact that it makes so much sense for this organization to sign Texiera next year makes me think it will never happen. We would have to determine what the Braves will be extending him for and overshoot that by 10-15 million. Does that sound like this organization?

I'm fine with Hernandez at SS. Why not? The whole point of rebuilding is to look at some young potential diamonds in the rough. Hernandez didn't hit much in the minors but did not look overmatched in his ML ABs. Why pick up a retread and give them $4-5 million?

This club needs to focus on incremental value. Don't spend just a couple of million on several positions to get just a little better. Spend a lot of money to make huge upgrades in areas of weakness (or resign impact players like Bedard/Roberts and look ahead and lock up Markakis). You eliminate holes on your roster and there is no need for future upgrades.

Unless you are willing to make a long-term signing at a position of weakness, don't bother. We can even begin doing that now if we make the contracts long enough. The FO has fooled us into believing we have to have a low payroll to accomplish this goal of rebuilding. I don't know that young players benefit from playing time AND and horrible team, but such is the message we are being fed.

Roberson--another irrelevant move for this team. Teams don't give you a player for cash considerations if they have even a belief that the guy could be an impact player. I know Guthrie panned out, but he had extenuating circumstances and was out of options.

For all the problems that the Orioles have--C, SS, 3B, LF, CF, #2 and #3 starters, a bullpen, and a closer--whose idea was it to look up, then make a trade for, 28-year-old utility outfielder Chris Roberson?

Anyone in the warehouse who is not already looking at improving the major positions of weakness via trades for young prospects needs to start doing so.

Non-prospect utility players are not going to make the Orioles contenders now or later. By spending money on minor league non-prospects, the Orioles continue to sacrifice the present at the expense of the future.

Well Roch you said you wanted to see a move made...me too, didn't think it was going to be this unimpressive either.

I think I would have rather had the author guy, at least we don't know if he sucks, unlike the one we got.

Here's a tidbit from the Phillies site on Roberson.....

In two stints with Philadelphia in 2007, Roberson hit .286 (8-for-28) in 28 games. He will be remembered by Phillies fans for his play as a defensive replacement in a critical Sept. 5 loss in Atlanta.

Roberson entered the game without his sunglasses, and that contributed to two balls dropping in front of him during Atlanta's four-run eighth inning. Matt Diaz then doubled off Roberson's glove during a three-run ninth that turned an 8-2 lead into a 9-8 loss.

Roberson, who had no Minor League options remaining, had no place in the Phillies' plans.....

The old sunglasses gaff.... sound familiar....

THIS WAS A GOOD MOVE!

We just picked up a SWITCH HITTING outfielder than can play all three positions, and the acquisition allows us to:

1. Trade Jay Payton without leaving a hole in the outfield

2. Tell Corey Patterson that we would like him to come back on our terms BUT WE DON”T NEED HIM TO

3. We can afford to allow any hot OF prospect we acquire (Bruce, Jones, Pie) to develop at Norfolk

4. Trade with the Phillies. How many people said Gillick would deal with us because of Angelos?

Come on guys, this is a REBUILDING project. Think of this as a “stick built” and not a “pre fab” job. We are not going to acquire all of the pieces in one move, as nice as that would be, because there are too many holes to fill. It’s additions like Roberson that fill in those holes.

If the O’s can get one of the Seans and Pie from the Cubs for Roberts, I would make that deal; however, if I were Mac Phail I would also ask that Mike Fontenot be included too. Anyone remember him? He would make a very scrappy addition while we develop a new second baseman.

Flash back to last year about this time and see how many posters were underwhelmed with some no talent pick up named “Guthrie”.

Who cares, this is ridiculous...if we dont trade Bedard & Roberts next season is going to be unbearable

I can not understand this deal at all. If we already have a light hitting SS, why do we want a light hitting CF. This guy is not a prospect. I am still puzzled why we don't give Patterson a one year deal, then hopefully a Bedard/Roberts trade give us a CF prospect in Norfolk this year with a shot at making the club in 09. Maybe that prospect is Fiorentino at 25 years old. Patterson should not cost us more then 4-5 million.

Talent evaluation is a major problem for the Orioles. They must have thought a world of him to call him up from single A in 2005. And now they're telling us that he is no good. Patterson looks better-and-better with each passing day.

Not impressed, as K-Dawg put it.

Make sure Chris gets mapquest directions to Norfolk

This makes no sense whatsoever. I'm among the optimists who figure Fiorentino is a better bet than Roberson, but wouldn't suggest that Fiorentino has anything more than a 4th or 5th outfielder future. Swapping one for another doesn't help, and this move itself could be inconsequential should the Orioles deal Bedard or Roberts. The 40-man is crammed full, so if/when one of those deals brings in multiple players the Orioles will have to DFA more players to make room for the new acquisitions. I'd be sickened to think this means Roberson is held in high enough regard that he'd survive the next DFA round, and hence MacPhail felt the urgency to get him now. So why do this move at all? Fiorentino might clear waivers and stay in our system, but was there really any other interest for Roberson? Watching the career paths of the Luis Terreros of the world, I'd say no.

I'm still comfortable with not re-signing Patterson. But that assumes there's a real chance we've got a CF coming our way in a Bedard or Roberts trade. If those trades aren't likely to occur (and I agree it's better to keep them than accept less than they are worth), than I'd much rather have signed Patterson than this stupid Roberson move.

I'll never understand why this team makes transactions just for the sake of saying, "we made transactions". This Roberson thing is a waste of time, energy, and money. When is the first stud prospect going to be acquired?

Corey Patterson keeps looking better and better as an alternative for center field.

Roch, I truely envy you for getting to read all those e-mails from the O's press office full of spin and smoke. Can you not share the Roberson e-mail with us? I would love to hear what McPhail said about him. Something along the lines of " Chris Roberson was an integral part of the Phillies minor league system. He is another piece in the puzzle for us in restoring the Oriole way."

I guess now we know why the ticket prices went up.

Amidst all this negativity, I wanted to interject that Baseball America recently published the projected 2011 Orioles lineup (along with a list of top 10 prospects and a very positive article about McPhails' moves to date. Could we really have a bunch of promising young players by then?

Catcher Matt Wieters
First Base Brandon Snyder
Second Base Brian Roberts
Third Base Bill Rowell
Shortstop Luis Hernandez
Left Field Nolan Reimold
Center Field Matt Angle
Right Field Nick Markakis
Designated Hitter Mike Costanzo
No. 1 Starter Erik Bedard
No. 2 Starter Adam Loewen
No. 3 Starter Radhames Liz
No. 4 Starter Jeremy Guthrie
No. 5 Starter Matt Albers
Closer Chris Ray

They must not think much of Luke Scott or Troy Patton for that matter (couldn't be entirely positive).

How about signing Marcus Giles and moving Roberts to short. We can get Giles pretty cheap now. Leave Mora at third and play Redman in center if you don't bring back Patterson which I still can't understand?

Sounds like we just re-signed Jeff Stone

I don't understand what is so bad about resigning Patterson. Can someone tell me?

Here's what Baseball Musings says about the deal: "Why do teams bother acquiring players like this? Chris Roberson's seasonal in 2008 will be 28, and his career minor league numbers are less than impressive. The Orioles should have a handful of players like this in their system already." The operative word in the posting is "should."

The O's aren't taking on payroll,they're shedding it,possibly for a sale in 2010. Corey Patterson would have no impact on the standings and cost 5+ mill a year.The man is out of a job for a reason. He chases bad pitches.

Remember Sam Perlozzo's favorite expression -- "a little bit." As in: "We hit a little bit." "We need to make adjustments a little bit." "We need to work on that a little bit."

Is it the new O's motto -- "a little bit"? As in, "we'll make moves, a little bit"?

It's a rebuilding era, fans. Let's think small!

I bet these younger players will play their heart out, and run out every hit/out - given the chance - if 1 or 2 pan out we are ahead of the game for 2009.

With this move, I think we're finally ready to contend for the International League pennant. Ottawa and Pawtucket better watch out! It's going to be an exciting August at Camden Yards before the major league call-ups happen.

This is the shape of things to come for the Orioles so we might as well get used to it.

For instance, while everyone is adding their favorite superstar-to-be to the O's trade talks involving Bedard and Roberts, the players who are most likely to be included are not even in the same zip code as Wieters and, at best, look remarkably like the guys we already have in our farm system.

The Reds are not likely to add Bruce to the trade. Seattle may send Jones AND Clement in the same trade, but it is also just as likely they won't, The Cubs are not sending Hill or Pie, etc., etc.

My personal feeling is that the O's do not want a guy like Bruce, Hill or Pie because in 2 - 3 years he is arbitration eligible. If he is as good as people say, his salary will likely jump into the Roberts/Tejada range. The game plan does not call for that kind of cost.

My bet is that both Bedard and Roberts will be gone before Spring Training and the package we get won't look significantly different from the maybes we got for Tejada.

Some of these guys may turn out to be good major league players but none of them are likely a sure thing. The 2 top pitchers in the Tejada trade did not even fall into many of the respected top 10 prospect lists for the Orioles!

MacPhail already tipped his strategy when he said the thing about prospects is you need a lot of them to find the ONE good one. I think the key difference was that we thought when he said prospects he meant guys around 20 - 23 years old, not 28 - 29 years old....

CHRIS ROBERSON WILL WIN THE ROY AND BE THE NEXT CARLOS BELTRAN IN 2008!!!...(I should also qualify myself by stating that I also believe in unicorns and look for Leprechauns in "Lucky Charms" cereal boxes too)...

I think this is a fantastic trade. A 28 year old prospect for Norm Cash who must be in his 60s by now?

I really think we need to resign Corey Patterson... was he that GOOD that we don't want him anymore?

Just pick up the phone and call his agent. That's all. Get him to play center. Then, have Roberson as our utility man or stick him in Norfolk.

That's my plan. Sometimes I wonder what this organization is actually doing. I know MacPhail is doing what he can, but this franchise is just running out of steam at this point.

Tom D, Why do you believe the Os' game plan would not accommodate young players who perform well enough to be eligible for Tejada-like or Roberts-like compensation when they become eligible for arbitration? If any prospects they obtain were to turn out that good, I believe the Os would be thrilled to pay the market rate for them, especially since the team would still have exclusive rights to those players for several more years. It's not as though the Os have shown any reluctance to spend money -- they've just spent it unwisely far too often. Spending on young talent is what they probably have in mind (giving them the benefit of the doubt that they have anything at all in mind). And don't forget that if they don't want to shell out free-agent money a few years later, they can always trade that maturing young talent for more prospects.

What is wrong with everyone!? This is great news.

Let's face it, everyone thought the Orioles were dead this off-season. I even held a funeral service. Then suddenly their is a little blip and they are back to life. Well, barely, but lets be honest: This is the most entertaining thing the O's have done in a month.

This deal makes sense, he's cheap, expendable, and will jam up center in spring training, maybe then someone will step up and claim the spot. This team is rebuilding, we are not going to make the playoffs (this year or next), people need to get their heads out of the clouds and accept that. Even with trading roberts and bedard the orioles are not going to finish above forth (thats being nice).

O is for open competion for all roster spots.

y'all are a bunch of babies. crying over a player who was acquired through cash. you'd think the o's traded bedard straight up for the guy.

Maybe just maybe this deal had NOTHING to do directly with the Major league team. Maybe it was just an addition to Norfolk. I think that part of MacPhail's plan is to teach winning from the low minors to AAA. Maybe that is all this is. Sure Roberson probably isn't a major prospect, but maybe he can help Norfolk win and that helps the big club in the long run.

OK, so I think we all can agree that Roberson is just another body, with some speed. I for one however, am not going to shed a tear over DFA'ng Fiorentino. Yeah like he really fit into the picture downroad! Let's face it, there are going to be a few more of these type of addtions before ST.

Tom D - Teams do niot just give up 20-23 year old prospects. You gotta give them something in return. That's how this trade thing works. So, looking at our roster, and the bad contracts, how are you going to trade stiffs like, Mora (No Trade Clause) Huff, Payton, or everyones favorite whipping boy, Jay Gibbons. You end up signing guys like Roberson.

You may be right about MacPhail, but I'm going to reserve judgement at this time. The type of signing today is not worth even firing off a response, as this old geezer Roberson might be gone before I finish writing this!!

I don't know why anyone is complaining. Fiorentino likely will clear waivers just like Cory Doyne and Novoa did and be back. Fiorentino isn't a high ceiling guy anyway. This is just a move to add more speed, depth and competition. I think they project Roberson starting in Triple A, rather than on their major league ballclub. Once teams make reasonable trade offers for Bedard and Roberts, then a move will be made. All of the other guys (Payton, Huff, Mora) are going to be VERY TOUGH to move.

TOM D--I believe the key acquisition in the Miguel Tejada trade was Troy Patton. He is not 28-29 years old. He is 22.

Thank you duke for your rebuttal, now my turn. First, I will aplogize for the jackass comment, that was excessive and was too far. We can have debate without namecalling. So, My apologies. Now, with that said, I still feel the way I feel about that subject. Your point about information being fed to the Post's Sheinin, even if true, my response is, So? There was no baseball team in DC, and when your trying to hold onto two markets, why not give them qualified info to appeal to the fanbase. That only seems like common sense and a smart business move. As far as common courtesy, thats just not how the world always works, I'm sorry. Now, I agree Angelos is a moron as well as his partners in crime. Where I take offense is you can't blanket everyone in the "warehouse" together. MacPhail has nothing to do with ticket prices or anything like that, he only deals with baseball operations. And he has been honest with us, whether we like his decisions or not, and I truly believe that he would have told Flanagan and Duquette what was going on, but not knowing them, he didn't. That too was Angelos' fault. So, we agree that Angelos is an idiot, and certain parts of the warehouse are dumbfounded, but I don't put MacPhail in that category and I am very defensive of a man who is trying to turn around this franchises ineptness and so many people are taking whacks at him because it's easy to jump on a person when things are going bad. By the way, Rosenthal is a pint sized twerp and an idiot. I wouldn't let him anywhere near the team truthfully.

Also, some you people need help. The fact that most of you are up in arms about a 28 yr old and a 24 yr old is sad. What if we are able to keep Fiorentino?!?! Now we have more young able bodies to compete and add what this franchise has desperately needed, organizational depth. Some of you come out with these unsubstantiated ideas about what MacPhail is doing. Some of you just blatantly distort what he said to prove your point. You keep saying it's a sad day with the way this franchise is, it's also a sad day when the people who claim they are fans have nothing better to do but take shots at the team they are supposed to love and support. I guess some of ya'll like to kick a man when he's down too. It really speaks volumes of some of the "character" that some people have in this blog. I guess I missed all the resumes of all the highly qualified GM's in here. I'm just happy that you have fallback jobs.

I agree with booty.Why all the fuss over this minor deal? It cost the O's nothing. Fiorentino wasn't the answer in CF, and this guy isn't either.

But you do get a switch-hitting utility outfielder who can play all 3 postions.

The team is in need of RH hitting outfielders, if only to PH late in a game. Everybody out there now hits LH.

Back off a little and stop over-analyzing every move...wait until the season starts, then look at what Mac has done.

So let me get this straight.... we take a 24 year old who hit 15 dingers at double A last year and dump him for a 28 year old who had 4 dingers in the minors.... what can they possbily expect this guy to do... he can't start taking 'roids now that they're cleaning that up...

I look forward to a blogpost by Roch in May or June about how Roberson has been DFA after hitting 193 with 2 or 3 RBIs.

If the Roberson move was to help Norfolk win, then here some other moves that could accomplish the same goal: Send down Jay Payton, Melvin Mora, Daniel Cabrera, Matt Albers, and everyone in the bullpen not named Walker or Bradford.

Tom D--You're right, so far the Orioles have acquired only one prospect of age 23, and none who are younger.

Rebuilding means trading away your current players for major prospects who project to being part of the team's foundation in two or three years. The Orioles have, at best, acquired a number four starter for that time frame, and no one else. This is not rebuilding, it's establishing the team as a permanent last-place dweller.

Everyone needs to chill out about Roberson. These are rebuilding years folks. Also, I agree we should trade Bedard and Roberts for a good package of prospects, but, wait until halfway through this season before the trading deadline is looming and find a contending team that is desperate fro help.

MAKE THE CINCY TRADE!!!!
JOEY VOTTO!!!!!!!!! THE NEXT RYAN HOWARD!!!!!!!!!

I am surprised at the overwhelming support for Corey Patterson on this board. Granted, I will be the first to admit he's gold glove talent defense in center. But were we really that impressed/excited about his .238 AVG in Apr, .209 in May, or all 8 of his homeruns? We want to pay this guy $5-7M (thanks to Boras)? These, honestly, are the players we want to exsponge from our roster. If we're going to pay a player the big contract, they need to be consistent and they better produce. This situation is similar to Crisp in Boston, and we don't see Crisp getting another contract from them.

OFAHN made a good point: this deal gives the FO time and leverage, while saving $ with little positional sacrifice. Roberson is the same age as Patterson, has decent defense, speed, and similar bat skills to Patterson (perhaps less power) at a fraction of the cost. We haven't heard MacPhail say man is going to make it happen. He's simply part of a larger objective, and a lot of you are crazy to think this team will turn around in one offseason. In fact, didn't he say that one single player will change this direction of this team?

As for all the talk of the potential returning trade prospects, often times even the most highly touted onesnever panout or get injured. Are we really willing to gamble on a couple MAYBE stars and dump all our best talent? I believe MacPhail has the right idea in todays rediculously expensive market. We cannot risk our future on a couple of maybe's. Having largest pool of talent to pull from is the best chance for building a complete team. I think it's fair to expect more non-glamourous acquisitions all in spirit of MacPhail's rebuilding process. We're looking for gems here, expect a few dirty rocks.

Terpfan, thanks for the comic relief!

We got the guy for one reason. He's a place holder until we can get a real center fielder. Patterson is too expensive to be a placeholder and his plate discipline is too awful to make him our center fielder of the future. I didn't want him before and I don't want him now. It's all about the big picture and he's not in it. Move on already.

Where do we find these guys???

Yeah! Not only is he a great author, but a cab driver, ticket taker, teamster, cabinet maker, baker, and night watchman at 7-11. Chris Robinson is the man. So, Roch and readers be ready to loose your job to this great man of genious.

Time for improving our team is growing short. Spring Training camp opens next month. Are we better off today than we were this time last year?

Casadilla--Yes, I'm willing to tear up a perennial 4th place team for a bunch of maybes, especially if national scouts have rated them as top prospects.

I don't mind the Tejada deal, but I wouldn't make that deal for Bedard or Roberts. The Orioles need to get the very top prospects--Jay Bruce, Joey Votto, Felix Pie, Adam Jones, etc.--because rebuilding requires a foundation of good players. A foundation of players who project to be back-end starters and middle relievers gives the Orioles nothing to look forward to.

If the Orioles can't get the aforementioned top AAA prospects for Bedard or Roberts, then I say take a risk and trade for more of the highest-ceiling, youngest A and AA prospects.

Tom D--Even though the Orioles have tended to let their stars leave when they become free agents (Mussina, Ryan), I would rather see the Orioles trade for future stars who will at least have a few good years here. If the Bedard and Roberts trades bring back no top young prospects, however, I'll concede that you're right and this "rebuilding" is just a money-making sham for the owner.

Re: Corey Patterson--Re-sign him at $2.5 million per year, for up to four years. If he demands more than that, he can come back when he finds that no team will pay it.

Barry - The key acquisition in the Tejada trade was Scott, who is 29.

Patton, who is indeed 22, is also projected by almost every prospect tracker to be a middle to bottom of the rotation pitcher - just like about 150 other prospects already in the system.

Just as MacPhail is not John Schuerholz (although a lot of people here seem to have confused the 2 guys), Patton is not Bedard or even Lowen. He is behind Penn and Liz on most prospect lists. How is he an upgrade?

Albers, who is 25, projects to be a reliever and is not on most top 10 prospect lists. Sarfate, the best pitcher in the deal, is 27 and out of options. He may be closer material - if he does not succumb to control problems like Cabrera and Liz....and Hoey.

Essentially we picked up more of the same in this deal. If Scott is as good as MacPhail seems to believe the deal could look good. But most scouts disagree with the idea that Scott can be a big producer and his D is pretty mediocre.

Just because a guy is young does not make him a good pick up. Instead of getting more pitchers who are carbon copies of what we already have, the O's would have done better to get some position players who could step into the majors - like MacPhail said he was going to get....

Did you say ONE RBI in 28 at-bats? So he'll get maybe 20 RBI if he plays full-time for an entire season?

Roberson has a 950-980 fielding percent making 7-10 errors are these mostly fielding or throwing? The FO is building up the minor league defenses so the young arms will get used to better D? From a 95 percent effective Older outfielder?

Roberson has a 950-980 fielding % making 7-10 errors are these mostly fielding or throwing? The FO is building up the minor league defenses so the young arms will get used to better D? From a 95% effective Older outfielder?

Booty's got it right. Everybody just chill - the O's didn't trade Bedard or Roberts for Roberson and won't have to raise ticket prices now that Roberson's on the roster. If the O's are not going to sign Patterson, Roberson is a better fit than Fiorentino. If Roberson can cut in CF, then he can play innings 7-9 in place of Redmond/Payton. If he hits, even better. For the bigger picture, who is going to be the closer?

"How about signing Marcus Giles and moving Roberts to short. We can get Giles pretty cheap now. Leave Mora at third and play Redman in center if you don't bring back Patterson which I still can't understand?" WOW, we found our new Manager. P.S. I played 2b, SS, 3B, all Of Positions. can I get a try out, I can lay down 150 bunts with probably a .300 avg, spray a few line drives, and still steal 20-25 bases and i will come cheap. i mean Oriole cheap.

All you people that think that Cory Patterson needs to come back.
It's to late, he's not coming back
We've already acuired Luke Scott and Chris Robertson. Clearly it looks like they closed the door on him.
UNFORTUNALLY

I don't know guys maybe they don't want patterson back because ofhis stat line .269/.304/.386! that is an ops of .690!! In baseball terms that is terrible. Why waste millions of dollars on a terrible outfielder when you can spend 300,000 on another equally terrible outfielder? Why not save the frickin money. It's not like with patterson the orioles will win the division. So why sign him please answer that. PLEASE!!!

This is not the last move. Calm down the major ones are still coming. But no matter who they get the orioles will not take the division next year. Just letting you all know. And he has picked up position players Luke Scott and Mike Costanzo ring a bell.

TOM D--Who said Patton is Bedard? In the context of a 5 for 1 trade for a player who everyone knew we wanted to trade, getting Patton, Albers, and Sarfate along with Scott and a guy who probably will never get out of the minors, Costanzo, MacPhail pulled off a good trade.

What's wrong with the 22-year old Patton becoming a solid middle of the rotation starter? Doesn't a winning team need good starters in the middle and at at number 5?

I believe Patton will prove to be a decent starting pitcher. From all I have read, he has a pretty good understanding of how to work a hitter.

Just for clarification, the reason that Albers is not listed on top prospect lists is that he pitched in the majors last year, thus losing his prospect eligibility.

I may as well comment, as some of you already have....I think the Roberson deal will help in the interim...what is wrong with the guy, really? Have any of you seen him play? Do you know for sure that he isn't capable of doing a good job in CF for the O's? Give the guy a chance!! Looks like McPhail may see a spark in him, to trade some money for him, so why not give this boy a chance to prove he can wear the Orange and Black. Oh, by the way....Fiorentino???? he hasn't showed anything yet in the majors...just up-and-down stuff in the minors...so the Roberson deal may inject some fresh blood in the mix. I may be wrong, but everyone has said its time for a change...let's start now with Roberson...

Bottom line, we essentially traded a homegrown 24-year-old prospect who was very successful at Double A last year... for an absolute assclown. THAT'S what just happened with the 40-man switcheroo.

At this point, who really cares? The Orioles are the worst-run organization in MLB...

Has anyone forgotten, too, that Brian Roidberts is going to be harder to trade than ever now? Roidberts for Pie? We'd be lucky to trade him for an actual pie.