Does anyone know Andy's record of stuff like this in Minnesota or Chicago? Are we all just suffering a terrible "breaking in" period where we get used to Andy's infuriating style?

G is for GAH

Okay i think the Orioles should send there season ticket owners a refund with a pain killer. Who is up for Nats Fan Club?

I do not understand why so much of the media continue to say Angelos is “famous” for nixing trades.

He killed the Bonilla trade and the Wells trade, but that was over 10 years ago. He killed the horrible Roberts to Atlanta trade in 2006 (and if anyone is still dumb enough to think we should have made that trade or that Angelos is a bad guy because he killed it, well, you are the one who has to live with yourself...).

He may have killed a Tejada to the Angels trade but that one seems to be another one to never have reached the point of being close before the Angels pulled out.

His problem is that he has not said "NO" enough! BJ to Atlanta (worse than the Roberts deal he killed!), the Baez deal, the Gibbons deal which, along with the Mora deal, he personally negotiated...) - there are MANY, MANY more dumb decisions like this than trades that would have helped the team that he killed.

I just cannot respect media sources that are too lazy to get the story right and just go with assumption.

As I have said, Angelos has done enough to hurt the team that people do not have to make things up to attack him.

Has it seriously gotten to the point where we can't even pull off a trade correctly?

Two questions, Roch:
1. Is there an agreement with Seattle?
2. If #1 is a yes, is it up to Angelos to okay it?
3. Who are these "sources"? Whoever they are, they're fired!

g is for get on with it, already!

Roch, it is obvious that this deal is dead. All the parties opened their mouths too soon and tried to deny so Peter wouldn't get his feelings hurt. Unless Peter sells the team, we will never have a winning season. This deal is not gonna happen.

I thought having AM at the helm was supposed to speed up the deal process?! Gaaaaaaa this is maddening!

Seriously, can we still refer to this mess as an "organization?"

There doesn't seem to be one shred of organization within those walls.

the internets is getting ahead of itself

im pretty sure he nixed a scott rolen trade from the phillies a while back
maybe you can provide us with some other examples roch

Wait a second. The disorganization isn't on our part, it's on Seattle's. It seems like their guys opened their mouths too soon and backtracked. Our side has been unified in its responses.

There aren't any heroes or goats yet. You can't judge results that haven't happened.

Watching this unfold is frustrating-- but it's fun, too. Never saw anything like it before. Never felt so involved a in a trade.

The organization looks like a joke. I'm sure that Jones spoke before he was supposed to, but what was he going to say? I'm pulling out of the playoffs for absolutely no reason.

This team is very difficult to root for right now. Not only is the product on the field a disaster, but now everything off the field is a disaster too.

OTOH, I just read the Zrebiec/ Connolly article and it seems like there's so much bureaucracy in O'land that we could blow the deal.

cw - Good catch!!!! But that is still just 4 out of how many trades?

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1208/is_52_225/ai_81891468

If they made the big trade and Rolen walked in his FA year we'd be slamming Angelos for OK'ing the trade. The bigger problem is the bad decisions.

Tom D -- Agreed, Angelos' nixing of trades has not always gone against the Orioles. If he shuts down this stinker of a deal, I'll take back all those bad things I've said about him (well, within reason - LOL).

Memo to Erik -- Sane O's fans want to see you back in the orange and black, putting up goose eggs on the scoreboard and notching "Ks," eh!

Everybody needs to relax. This deal is probably not dead. The players just couldn't keep their mouths shut, and the internet media jumped all over it, thus causing all this insanity. Otherwise, we'd be blissfully ignorant to the fact that the deal is so close right now. The Mariners, and the Seattle media have been jumping the gun over this trade for weeks. So naturally their players did the same.

The question with Angelos has always been more about his commitment to rebuilding than about his meddling in trades. Every trade he's vetoed has been about keeping "name" players with the O's. He has given bad contract extensions to Mora and Gibbons, which fits the mold pretty well. Basically, Angelos is afraid to commit to putting a really bad team on the field with a bunch of names the fans don't recognize. Does he not understand that the nature of rebuilding is first that you tear down your existing structure? Instead, we're left with him dragging his feet as he tries to make up his mind and we get free agents like Aubrey Huff.

Let's suppose something for a second. Let's suppose that less than two days ago, Adam Jones hadn't said something prematurely to a reporter in Venezuela. Then we probably would not have known that a deal was on Angelos's desk waiting for his approval.
And the whole thing wouldn't seem nearly so excrutiating. Nor would so many people be accusing MacPhail of being incompetant, or impotent as a GM. Nor would throngs be convinced they have "evidence" that Angelos is evil incarnate.
Andy MacPhail didn't announce a trade, and didn't lead everyone to believe only his owner stood in the way. He replied to a rumor that a deal was done. He said it wasn't. Seems accurate to me.
All this spewing that he is too slow and he is putting us through torture, is a torture self-made from wanting to believe whatever the blogosphere offers up in the last hour as "fact." (And for those of you relying so heavily on Jason Stark, maybe you should go back and count how many times he was flat out wrong, citing his inside sources during the Winter meetings.)

Now, I think Roch alerted us to this deal a few days ago, and said all that he could responsibly say, based on what he could and couldn't verify. And it's looking like the names he put out on the table as probables, might be right.
Once the rumors began flying with the Seattle Times story, I appreciated Roch's journalistic standards in not reporting more than he could independently verify from multiple sources.
If I wanted fiction reported as fact, I'd just read the Chicago columnists every day. And if I wanted nothing but pure gossip, I'd only read the MLB Rumors blog. They make no pretense of trying to do anything except pass along whatever rumors they see, without doing a thing to find out whether they are true.
When I read Roch's blog, it's with the assurance that he is not going to go beyond what he can verify with credible sources.

"Our boy" Ken Rosenthal is reporting Angelos has the deal on hold.

I don't trust Rosenthal though. Tell me this isn't true.

I thought the purpose of hiring AM was for him to make all decisions concerning personnel, including trades. In the past, our front office was always in disarray, unable to respond in a timely manner to many trade offers. Please Peter...stop micromanaging the team! If you brought McFail in to rebuild the O's, then stop tying his hands behind his back and let him act like a general manager!!

Run away, Andy MacPhail! Quit now!

it seemed like The Peter was finally going to trust somebody to make decisions. If he's the holdup on this trade, that's just not true. The trade shouldn't wait for his "personal matter," no matter what it is. A GM needs the authority to make a trade without a 2-day wait for the owner to approve it.

The best thing MacPhail can do is quit. Maybe it won't show The Peter the error of his ways; possibly nothing can. But nobody can fix the Orioles without the authority to do so. Getting that authority for a GM -- any GM -- is more important than any single trade or signing MacPhail could make.

One more thing: Does this remind anyone of Frank Wren?

Welcome to the BUSH LEAGUE Seattle

Roch, are you on the O's payroll? Obviously Angelos is meddling again and holding this up. Please come out and tell it like it is and stop sugar coating it. If this trade falls through I am done with the O's. I live a mile from the stadium but I'll drive down to DC if I want to watch baseball. This is sad because I grew up with the 83' world series team and now the O's are the laughing stock of MLB. What a joke.

I try to deal in facts so this is my take.

Bavasi jumped the gun in calling Jones home. He also shouldn't have been talking specifics with Jones. It's possible this is Bavasi's tactic to force the trade. I'm not saying it's a conspiracy but Bavasi was pretty adamant last week in saying he was going to get a top line pitcher.

For all of his faults Angelos does own the Team. The problem I have is that everyone was led to believe that MacPhail had autonomy. So that means that either MacPhail does not have authority to make deals, or the deal was never good enough for him to say yes. The problem is that due to the history of the Franchise and its dealings with FO personnel, Players, Announcers, etc. its going to look like business as usual which is not a good thing. I'll wait a day or so and see which way the wind blows but until I'm proven wrong this is another case of an Owner that has no clue. Like hiring a undertaker to manage a strip club.

Might it be possible that McPhail & Angelos are using Peter's reputation to work Seattle for a better name to include in the deal?

im just throwing this up here because it is interesting
i hadnt heard anything about this and was wondering what other people knew of it
http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/archives/130484.asp
angelos stopping a bedard trade to toronto at the winter meetings?
anybody heard this before right now
curious as to how a seattle guy would have heard about this but no one in bmore

Is anyone REALLY suprised by this?

does anyone else think its funny that we couldn't trade ANGELOS for an orange peel, one sock with holes in it, and a used diaper?

you could have the best GMs in the game working here and still end up with the same results. Epstein, Beane, Schurholtz, etc wouldn't get crap done here either.

I grew up an O's fan and I loved going to the ballpark to watch the games, but I'll be damned if I pay to watch this junk. The only way I go now is if its free, and even then I think about better options for spending 3 1/2 hours of my life.

And get some freaking HD on your ratty sports channel you miser.

IF (big if since we don't know) pete angelos has nixed this deal after MacPhail worked out all the details, AM needs to leave immediately since he obviously doesn't have any control that he thought he did. Maybe there's a reason Mike Flanagan has been allowed to wither on the vine. At least someone would be in place to be pete's Yes Man again. Ridiculous.

Tom D,

If the O's make bad trades, fans don't slam the owner, they slam the GM. There is no reason an owner with no prior baseball experience should be nixing any trades at all. Teams avoid trading with us and players avoid signing with us not only because we stink, but because our owner won't sign off on paying and extending the players we have or bringing more players in.

Also don't forget the Aaron Sele signing, and Angelos's insistence on signing Albert Belle. He always has his fingers in the cookie jar.

Someone needs to glue his hands together.

oh and Roch,

Have you heard about this Bedard to Toronto trade that CW mentioned?

i hope the deal is getting bigger bedard,bradford,hoey for adam jones,raul ibanz,morrow and tillman roberts for murton and cedeno and erick patterson-2b.

What's the big deal? When Andy has a trade in hand, he'll say so. I hope he holds out for more, more and better. Is there something wrong with that?
It's the Mariners who have to do something now, not the O's.
The M's are playing for the Western Division in 2008. The O's are playing for .500 in 2010 or sooner. The pressure is on the M's.

Sound like Angelos got his feelings hurt so now he is going to make sure we're all aware he has final say...so he makes everyone wait till his "person" situation is complete. Well, seems like season ticket holders plopping down thousands of dollars thing this is a personal thing too - I guess that's why Angelos is the bumbling baseball owner. Great at what he does for a living - pathetic and embarrassing in baseball. What a joke!

Boy it's nice to see the passion of orioles fans. We all overreacted to a rumor and now are trying to blame someone and everyone for a rumor. If they told me Angelos killed the deal that would be one thing, but all they've told me is that Jones has returned to the US.

I believe the deal is nearly done, but it needs Peters blessing. I believe that all deals need the owners approval in some sort of way, so I can't assume Pete is holding up the deal. I can believe that we all got caught in a rumor and want to belive so bad.

Roch,

I grew up listening to the O's on WBAL before I went to sleep every night.

If no trade is done and we go into the season as is..... I am done with this team. No more of my money will go to Big Petey. What is the difference between losing 90 games with Bedard or losing 100 without him? Nothing.

Well Pete...... looks like you are erasing your fans one by one. If I could poison his oatmeal I would. This old Hitler can't die soon enough. When Pete dies I will throw a huge party. Get lost you ambulance chasing punk. Please Cal save us....

EJ in Ohio - If we are gonna play make believe and do all this supposing . . . lets just suppose we won the World Series last year. That way we dont care how bad they muck up the real world.

How about a trade of Bedard for an already all-star player. What are the O's trying to save money for. Ten thousand fans aren't going to come out and watch a minor league team for the whole season. I know Nick, B-Rob and Bedard are superstars, but after that we don't have much to cheer about. Oh well you know I'll be rooting for Tike Redman and Howie Clark, but that's just me. I hope Nick has another great year to.

EJ in Ohio has the most on-the-mark comments I've seen on the subject.

And the blog from the Seattle radio station - how can they have that info, and no newspaper or other news outlet has it? I'd love to know whether Jones truly gave that quote to anyone last night, or whether he just misunderstood whatever instrucitons he was given. Being pulled and told to come to Baltimore, and being pulled and told to come BACK TO THE U.S., are two very different things. Did Jones get his instructions all wrong? Did whoever instructed him get the instructions wrong? Those are things we're not hearing yet.

I feel a bit let down by Ken Rosenthal, who I've always had faith in. He attributed, he just didn't dig

Quite fascinating, this swirl of disinformation. I hope neither Jennifer nor anyone else missed too much work following this saga today.

Does anyone else find that they need to delete their "Temporary Internet Files" in order to get the latest blogs here? If I just hit refresh, it keeps refreshing old pages and can deceive you into thinking there are no updates.

Why do we keep slamming PA? Does anyone remember the NYY's of the early/mid 80's to mid 90's? Steinbrenner was hated in NY. Now loved. How about the Indians of the 80 's to mid 90's? The Tigers of the 90's to mid 2000's? So the O's fans are fairweather fans? This is a great sports town. If you think that being a Nats fan is the answer because they have a new stadium, well take your self down 95 or the Balt/Wash Pkwy. cause we don't need ya!

Not so fast GRASSHOPPER! Let this deal play out. There are other teams enterirng the picture at the last minute, IE: the Mets. So, stop accussing Roch of being an agent of Angelos and McPhail as a non-powerful Pres of B-Ball ops. Look to the skies and you may see Carlos Gomez on flight 1123.

Gman. Do you really think Bedard will be finished/washed up at 31/32? Take a look around MLB and notice how many starters are still productive into their late 30's-there's even some 40 yr olds. Maddux, Rogers, Glavine, Smoltz and a 'power lefty'-Randy Johnson...
It looks like King Peter may be stepping in to make a last ditch long-term offer to Bedard, which he should have done in the first place. He's now made McPhail look like a fool but on the other hand, we may know how serious Bedard is about staying. If, for some reason, he does sign a 5 year deal, then how can that not be a positive thing?
I read with amusement those who brought up the rapid Tigers' turnaround, conveniently forgetting that their team included a number of productive veteran pitchers-such as Jones, Rogers & our own Walker.
In the long run, we are better off with Bedard than without and here's hoping the next thing we read about him signing a long-term Orioles deal!

A couple things. First Angelos is not available to approve the deal until tommorrow. Why does this mean he is nixing it....Ken Rosenthal??? Secondly this whole situation reveals that their are some serious communication issues here. We have gotten away from doing things the Oriole Way and we are doing things the Angelos Way and Lack of Communication, Disorganization, Laziness, and Stuborness are the 4 pillars that This Angelos Way is built upon. Another example of this in this whole thing is that we are just finding out that Bedard was willing to listen to contract offers however wasnt offered one. What organization doesnt even make an attempt at coming up with an offer for their ace pitcher???Heck if he took a 3-5yr contract here it only strengthens his trade value because the team that obtained him would have him for more years, but we dont even try? Ahhh,,,, I could go on and on. Yes Angelos has shown good judgement in the recent past at nixing trades, however nothing has changed when it comes to how he runs his business. Sadly for us that business is our beloved Orioles.

TOM D: "Sane" O's fans realize that Bedard ISN'T going to resign with us and will walk in TWO years. With that said, SANE O's fans realize that we will NOT be seriously in contention in the next 2 years WITH him, so deal him now while his value is sky high.

All O's fans love what Bedard has done- and wish he could be signed to an extension- but also realize that what he said recentlyis just lip service- and the only way possible to come close to signing him to an extension- is to pay an astronomical fee that will price us out of any other parts we need to build a winning team again!

Just look at the A's... It hurts- but you gotta do what you gotta do when the time is right.. and RIGHT NOW, the time is right!

I wonder if anyone locally will be able to tell the story as bluntly and openly as they have in Seattle.
http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/mariners/2008/01/angelos_strikes_again.html#more

The truth needs to get out there.

It's really sad because I believe PA has enough yes men kissing his golden bum that he simply doesn't realize what an embarrassment he's made the Orioles. Let Mr. McPhail manage for Pete's sake!

To everyone that says, in different ways, to resign Bedard:

Go back and read the quotes attributed to Angelos the year before Mussina left. He specifically said he did not want to sign pitchers to big money, long term deals. Look it up on The Sun microfish if you have to.

And if I own a business like the O's, I can take a little time out of my day to make this decision. There is no way he has not been informed of what is transpiring, this looks like more of the same behavior of the last 10 years. I hope I'm wrong, but if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck......................................well.

Maybe I will pick an all time crappy owner roster of teams to root for. The O's, Knicks, Raiders, see who can lose the most games.

Man, I am seriously irritated. Hand me my blood pressure pills.

Roch: There are reports and rumors abound that Angelos has nixed the deal with SEA, please say this is not true!!!!!!!!!

I don't see what everyone is whining about! People act like Chris Ray just gave up a jack to Willy Mo Pena.

That being said, I still think you build around EB. I hope it gets nixed.

I never said I wanted this deal to get nixed. I said I want it to get done. I mean nixed. Done. Whatever, as long as we win the division, I don't care either way.

Roch, we need some damage control!! Peter Angelos went from someone who was unavailable all day, and seen by someone at Mercy Medical Center, to someone who approved and then nixed a Bedard trade. Orioles fans always love to believe the worst, as long as it means screaming for PA's head, but I really don't believe any of it.

Can you shed any light? And before the pitchforks come out??!!

Probably the most foolish people in this entire affair are the one who plan on putting money in Angelos' pockets by going to a single game. I can't think of a single reason anyone would give Angelos a penny.

Will the cable company discontinue sending MASN to my home?

caprimode - Rosenthall is about as connected as a man on a deserted island. Moments before the Tejada to Houston trade he put an article on the web saying the talks had broken down and the O's were looking elsewhere.

None of this makes any sense! I turned on ESPN to see what the story was but all I could get was a snowy image of Rod Serling.

Don't tuch your dial....

Give us one last glimmer of hope post before bed, Roch...

What a day..

P is for Petey

I guess this means a lot of running around to find out what's going on? Unless you already know? Is it as maddening for you at the Sun as it is for fans? Good luck, and I hope you can find something out.

There hasn't been this much excitement about the Orioles in many years. I believe the bean-spillers are the folks in Seattle. The Oriole FO hasn't said anything. The only truthful party is our side....

Rosenthal is reporting that Bedard is now open to a five year deal with the O's. My guess is that PA's personal biz is a screen to see if that deal can get done.

It's a shame that without any credible source, we are so sure that PA is holding up this deal. If they make the trade or they don't, there are still gonna be a group a fans that will have something to complain about.
Can't we all just get along?

To all of you who hate this "trade", I suggest taking a second to visit ussmariner.com. They REALLY hate this trade over there. I know everyone falls in love with their own prospects, but after reading and researching this seems like a great deal for the O's. Over half the people at BP think Jones for Bedard straight up is too much. Tillman is going to be a top 20 prospect next year, and he's only 19! Not to mention the two throw in guys have great arms and potential.

Bedard isn't going to help us in two years when he walks, and they are selling him at the peak of his value. We all know that we need to rebuilt with an eye towards 2010 or 11.

Two things ARE clear in this mess....

Tom D is the new PR guy for potter...

Same ole meddling owner, just new puppets to manipulate....

potter, loved one day like King George in NY? That's a reach, he is hated as much as loved, but in any case, potter will never, ever get there. Loathing is fairly well set here.

I ask this of all, how many times can you remember a deal by 2 other teams turning into such a circus & mess? I can't, except a few involving the O's under potter.
Seattle appears to have jumped the gun, but I think it was standard operating procedure that they were operating by, they failed to take into account the potter factor on this end. Now Seattle has covered MacFail's butt so to speak by getting those 2 guys to back off & stop talking. A sort of professional got your back this time of sorts for poor MacFail. They could easily say....wtf guy, I thought we had a deal & you needed the kid there for a physical.... this will only make future deals by the O's with anyone else that much harder & who could blame them.

I think all of the on-strike Hollywood writers are spending their time posting here. My, what drama you've all created for yourselves.

"The evil Mr. Angelos is standing in the way of Andy the sheriff who's trying to deliver the young heart-throb to our little town."

The Mariners think a deal is close so they far too publically pull Jones out of the game - instead of having him get the flu. Jones talks to a guy with a notepad. Seconds later the whole world hears the news and two seconds later Angelos has done it again, blocking a trade that will put the O's on top.

Only the bigshots of the two clubs know what's happening and what's soon to happen. None of them are working on a timetable established by hysterical fans.

If this is all too much for you, if you're sick of Angelos' meddling then go, spare yourselves the agony and us the whining.

Tom D - Sane Oriole fans want Angelos to take a trip on the Titantic.

The day he nixed the Wells and Bonilla trades we have gone downhill.

Let's step back a moment from the accusations and counter-accusations. What do we really know about the situation with Bedard. We know that he's still with the Orioles despite a number of teams reportedly making offers to the Orioles for him. We know that he's not fond of talking to representatives of the media, and yet several days ago he spoke at some length with a Sun reporter about his future with the team. We know that the Orioles have the exclusive right to his services for two more years, but at that time he can leave and the team will get virtually nothing in return -- a situation that the Orioles and a number of other teams have found themselves in over the years. We've read that Bedard would be open to signing a multi-year contract, and that he doesn't want to go through a rebuilding period with a team. We know that the Orioles have more holes than Royal Albert Hall had way back when, and that one way to try to fill some of them is to trade Bedard. And we also know it's highly unlikely that the team would be able to find a pitcher of Bedard's quality, because despite his injuries and his track record of being a six- or seven-inning pitcher, he is one of the two or three best starting pitchers in baseball. All this is a lot to chew on, even for a baseball executive and a team owner. Would any of us really be disappointed if the team signed Bedard to a multi-year contract instead of trading him for several promising players? Sure, the Seattle players being discussed could prove very helpful, and sure, the Orioles are probably going to stink this year with Bedard or without him. But given how good he is, I would want to be very careful before pulling the trigger on a trade. And if that means letting the Mariners (or any other team for that matter) wait a little longer, what's the big deal? Maybe it will lead the Mariners to sweeten their offer. Or maybe the Orioles will come up with a couple magic numbers ($$$ and years) that will lead to signing Bedard to a long-term deal. After all, Bedard was never quoted as saying that a contract of sufficient length and value might not make playing through a rebuilding project more tolerable. In either case, the Orioles come out winners. The only way the team would lose is if the Mariners give up and go elsewhere for a pitcher. But where else would they go? If that happens, the Mariners would wind up with a pitcher who's not as good, unless they could somehow get Santana. The Mariners have a lot of talent, and might be one top-notch pitcher away from going far in the post-season, so there's a lot of pressure on them to make this deal. If I'm Bavasi, I'm in a hurry to do the deal; if I'm Angelos/McPhail and there's even a slim possibility that I can sign Bedard to a long-term contract, I can take my time and fully explore all options. And if I'm a baseball journalist from Seattle or FoxSports, I'm pretty desparate to find something to write about besides steroids this offseason.

I have no idea what's going on. Even AM says "I don't know."

If Angelos vetoed this deal and it was Jones-Tillman-Sherill for Bedard, then well done Peter.

Go back and talk to Cinci and get some real prospects like Votto-Cueto/Bailey, or get Rios-Mcgowan from TOR etc, or better yet -extend him. This SEA offer is just not exciting.

So what title do you hold at the warehouse patrick?

Patrick,

Get a life and some writing classes.

a stands for..............well, you know....................

Brian - Oh so original. And clever, too. It only took you about 4 hours to think that one up. Except, if you can remember, we went through this last summer. So it is just a copy of a lame insult. Wow.

Why have your shorts in a knot? All I said was it was a little on the insensitive side to be upset that Angelos wouldn't drop his family matter to fret about the Bedard trade. Maybe there is something more important?

You have no idea what his family matter was but you have to respect a man who says "Don't bother me, this is my family time." Even if the issue is the all important trade of Eric Bedard.

(Hey, you think the fighting stopped in Iraq while they wait for word?)

My point, which you clearly missed, is that PA doesn't deserve this level of devotion from you, does he?

PS - I also said that PA was the reason the O's are in a situation where they feel they have to trade 2 of their top players to get competitive again and have said numerous times that PA is an arrogant, self-centered man - some PR, huh?

Meanwhile, if Angelos was incommunicado Monday how could he have killed a deal? People are jumping to conclusions and getting themselves in frenzy over rumor and assumption.

Clark Clifford said "It is always wrong, everywhere, and for anyone, to believe anything upon insufficient evidence." Right now the only evidence we have is the unreliable Ken Rosenthall and the professional Angelos bashers, ESPN. Why don’t we wait to see what happens?

By the way, if the trade goes through are all of the finger pointers going to start posting your praise of Angelos? Or is this just another reason to slam him?

Angelos screws up enough that you don't have to try this hard. Really.

Roch,

Can you find out if Angelos nixed this trade or not? I don't believe that he did, but the rumor is rampant. I know you'll get to the bottom of this.

If he didn't veto the deal then I would think that he just hasn't given approval yet, and that approval will come.

If I'm wrong and he's not letting McPhail do his job, I will be extremely dissapointed.

thanks in advance, once again.

IF you trade Beddard get something
equal in return, not a maybe or 2 maybes. makes no sense to build on maybes

Patrick,

Ths issue is PA's meddling, I think, not the worth of the trade or the time that is is taking that has everyone in an uproar.

If Andy has "the power", then why does PA need to sign off. Yes, he owns the club but Andy supposedly has full reigns to get the job done and does not need his okay to run the club (at least that is what he said when he came on board). Or, is PA meddling which means that Andy does not have it any better than his predecessors? That means business as usual for the O's, and trouble for the organization, since it means nothing has changed. Andy's arrival brought hope, hope dashed with this fiasco, if true.

Is Angelos meddling? I don't know, maybe. He seems to have in the past but usually in the O's favor.

He stopped the signing of a picher who went to Seattle (I've forgotten his name) and that guy had an okay career afterward.

He stopped the Wells/Bonilla trade and we ended up with the AL East crown - maybe he should have let the team get younger.

He stopped the ridiculous Roberts trade to Atlanta.

All that anyone knows he's doing is reviewing this deal once he gets back to work. I imagine the most powerful GM's in the business have to run deals past the owner before finalizing.

Why the rush? Why the hysteria? And, why the name-calling? This is major league baseball we're talking about, not sixth grade dodge ball at recess.

If Angelos spent like Steinbrenner, and brought back pennants like Steinbrenner, then he would be liked.

He spends 1/4 as much, and wins pennants 1/16 as often.

It looks like Angelos had a personal matter to attend to yesterday, meaning that he neither vetoed nor accepted the deal. He just took no action. Expect a yes-or-no from him today.

I want to see Bedard traded by this July 31, but I definitely don't want to see him traded for Jones, Sherrill, Tillman, and one or two lesser prospects.

I'd rather see Angelos veto this deal, let Andy walk, and sign a GM smart enough not to ask permission for a deal this desperate.

Angelos's problem is that he hires bad GM's, vetoes their bad deals, and then replaces them with other, equally bad GM's. But, Angelos is never proactive. So, while trading Roberts and Penn for LaRoche and Giles would have been a bad deal last offseason, by not being proactive, the Orioles have gotten themselves into a hole where they can only dream of getting LaRoche for Roberts this offseason. Instead, it looks like they will settle for more B-grade prospects from the Cubs.

When a team is in as dire straights as the Orioles, they have to take risks. That means gambling that Bedard will stay healthy through July 31, and some contender will have a starting pitcher who gets injured, or is ineffective, or busted for steroids, before then. That would give the Orioles maximum leverage. Trading Bedard now, and accepting just two of the Mariners best five prospects, reeks of desperation.

Nix it, Pete. Then, hire a better GM, and stay out of the way. Oh yeah, and bring back John Miller, Davey Johnson, "Baltimore" on the away jerseys, and the cartoon bird. Plus, if you want to win, spend like the perennial winners, Boston and New York. And let's get some HD on MASN, because we can't see the agony of defeat clearly enough.

I can imagine that it may not be simple to make the potential Bedard trade to Seatle as it is possibly intertwined with the potential Roberts trade to the Cubs.

For example, in order to get the quality prospects the Orioles want from the Mariners (Jones, Triunfel, Tillman, and Clement) then I think they may need to add Scott, while also getting Sherill in return.

However, you can probably only add Scott if you can get Pie in a Cubs trade. And to get Pie plus the young pitching projects you want from the Cubs, you should probably throw in Sherill, who will be more valuable to Chicago than he would be to Baltimore.

At the end of the day I could foresee the following:
Bedard and Scott for Jones, Triunfel, Tillman, Clement, and Sherill.

Roberts and Sherill for Pie, Cedeno (I like the idea of getting another middle infielder to replace Roberts or Tejada), and 1 or 2 pitching prospects.

I could get excited about watching Jones, Pie, Cedeno and Clement contribute this year, while waiting for Triunfel, Tillman, and the Cub prospects to join Roswell, Weiter, and others as part of the future.

I am looking forward to the day where baseball decisions can be made by the baseball people---good or bad PA needs to let the people he hires do their job and if they screw up fire them but let them do their job!!!!

this is what ken rosenthal is saying this morning:

"As usual with the Orioles, confusion reigns.

The Mariners' quest to land Orioles left-hander Erik Bedard is on hold — and possibly off — due to the involvement of O's owner Peter Angelos, according to major-league sources."

here' the rest of the article:

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7726024/Source:-M's-deal-for-Bedard-on-hold?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=49

so much for macphail having control...

While it may be easy to make Angelos the scapegoat here why would he be possibly holding up the deal? This is a great deal on the Orioles side. Bedard could blow his arm out any second in spring training. All systems need to be go and NOW to git er done!

The roster changes of 2005 were prefaced with Peter Angelos' comments: "We are coming back strong next year. I know you have heard that tune before, but this time it will literally come true."

If Angelos stops this trade than he has to sign Bedard to a long term contract. If he doesn't then everybody will hate him and Bedard. NOT GOOD!

EC - I agree with you completely.

Although I do not care if it is the Titanic or a cruise to the balmy Bermuda Triangle - as long as he takes his sons and leaves a directive granting his shares to Cal Jr.

Dave - I agree with you. While PA might not be able to match the Yankees dollar for dollar he can certainly top Toronto's budget and maybe even challenge the Sox spending.

The problem is he still lives in a rotisserie world - he'd just as likely give Colon a 5 year deal as spend the money wisely on players who might win the team a few more games.

The best thing would be for him to decide to make the Greek National team the new Cubans and take his whole operation (except Jordan!) with him leaving Steve Geppi to get Ripkin to buy a majority share and bring in some people who can evaluate talent.

My gut feeling is that whichever way this saga breaks it will not go well for the O's.

I think we all should relax. Rosenthal has it out for the orioles and is clearly biased against him. PA has some things to attend to and it will all work out. Keep the faith people.

Instead of saying the same old thing that has been repeated numerous times in this blog.....One only has to go to the recent article from the Sun's Rick Maese about this situation. Hats off to a superb sports writer for voicing what we all are feeling.

TerryP- Bedard being washed up at 32 was an overstatement. However, the point is, assuming they were to sign him to a 5 year deal, its going to be at least 3-4 years before they can be respectable. Paying this guy 18 mil per season for last places finishes isnt worth it. They desperately need young position talent, because if you havent noticed, nobody wants to sign here to play. If you dont take this route like the Tigers/Marlins did, theres no way to compete in the AL East as things stand now.

As for the Tigers comment, yes they went and got some older veterans which vaulted them to the World Series. But, look who they built around.. Zumaya, Bonderman, Verlander, Granderson, Robertson, etc. They built young talent, let them play, and then when they developed, they filled in some pieces with veterans. You cant go and BUILD your team with these pieces as the Orioles have tried to do for the last 10 years. You BUILD by stockpiling talent, and then fill in the pieces after some of these guys have developed.

The passion some people have is awesome, but a reality check needs to set in, and maybe if it did for Angelos a few years ago, wed have more good young players. Its a shame as Bedard/Roberts were coming into their own, they fielded such trash like Huff, Sosa, Gibbons, Segui, Deshields, Javy Lopez etc. around these guys, and letting Mussina/Ryan etc. walk for free when the team was out of contention.

Once again the O’s are a laughingstock to the rest of the league. I hope Mr. Angelos is available today to make some decisions. At this point, I’m certain the deal is being blocked. Wouldn’t McPhail & Angelos already have had discussions about trade scenarios before all this went down??

If flat out sucks to be us O’s fans. Nothing will change until we all stop going to the games to support his monstrosity.

Ghost of Paul Richards - I hope you are not connected with the FO - you seriously under value Bedard and Roberts while seriously over value the Seattle and Chicago players.

Cedeno is a weak fielder who doesn't hit, Pie may or may not be a good fielder but he is only average with the bat.

And before you get excited about Tillman think about Beau Hale, Matt Riley and Rich Stahl. He may have a great future - but he also may not. If he is a key in the Bedard deal the O's need to get Butler and Mickolio along with a legit MLB player to join Jones and Sherrill.

If the O's get Scott, Clement, Sherrill and Tillman for Bedard I would consider that a fair deal.

PS - It is Rowell and Wieters.

I never thought I would ever be at a point where it would be too painful to remain an Orioles fan. I have bled for this team for all 34 years of my life, through the good and bad. I despise the idea of fair weather fans, but at some point this franchise crosses over from being just a perennial loser, to being perennially incapable of allowing itself to be anything but.

At that point, it becomes difficult to embrace the franchise, hold it to your heart as a "lovable loser" and accept that the franchise is doing its best.

We are finally about to find out if this franchise is ready to take a step towards credibility, let alone respectability or even competiveness.

See, Mr. Angelos, it is not about whether the trade is right for the Orioles or not at this point. Truthfully, it is more about whether you are willing to trust your baseball people to rebuild what has been decaying for years under your watch. It is also about whether you have any concept of what the fans really want and what we stand for.

I certainly can't and won't speak for all O's fans, there certainly are varying opinions. But I would gladly spend my money to watch a young, horrible team taking its lumps for a franchise with a clearly stated direction of REBUILDING.

I will not spend money to watch the current horrible team with marginal upside and no clearly demonsrated direction.

And beyond that, even though I am sickened to say this, I just can't stomach the team anymore, as much as I love the black and orange.

So, swallow hard, and make the trade. It is not about whether it is good or bad. It is about showing the fans that you have a true direction and that you are willing to entrust the future of this franchise to people who have made it their life's work.

I never thought I would ever be at a point where it would be too painful to remain an Orioles fan. I have bled for this team for all 34 years of my life, through the good and bad. I despise the idea of fair weather fans, but at some point this franchise crosses over from being just a perennial loser, to being perennially incapable of allowing itself to be anything but.

At that point, it becomes difficult to embrace the franchise, hold it to your heart as a "lovable loser" and accept that the franchise is doing its best.

We are finally about to find out if this franchise is ready to take a step towards credibility, let alone respectability or even competiveness.

See, Mr. Angelos, it is not about whether the trade is right for the Orioles or not at this point. Truthfully, it is more about whether you are willing to trust your baseball people to rebuild what has been decaying for years under your watch. It is also about whether you have any concept of what the fans really want and what we stand for.

I certainly can't and won't speak for all O's fans, there certainly are varying opinions. But I would gladly spend my money to watch a young, horrible team taking its lumps for a franchise with a clearly stated direction of REBUILDING.

I will not spend money to watch the current horrible team with marginal upside and no clearly demonsrated direction.

And beyond that, even though I am sickened to say this, I just can't stomach the team anymore, as much as I love the black and orange.

So, swallow hard, and make the trade. It is not about whether it is good or bad. It is about showing the fans that you have a true direction and that you are willing to entrust the future of this franchise to people who have made it their life's work.

1. Roch you are killing me.... any word today on Bedard? I keep hitting refresh waiting for a new post!

2. Everyone (myself included) needs to calm down. I'm thinking that Angelos hasn't nixed the deal yet. I personally think that McPhail is trying to get a little more out of this deal. Bedard is a solid ace and come July, there are going to be teams that will give anything to have him. So if Andy is dead set on trading him now, he wants to get back only the best. I think he's just unhappy with what they are offering us. Yes Jones and a few other prospects are good, but COME ON! It's freaking Erik Bedard!

Also, you guys can't really get mad at Andy for having to get Angelos' approval. Peter OWNS the team. He can do whatever he wants. Andy goes out and finds the deals and Angelos signs it. It sucks but whatever. It's not Andy's fault. If I were Andy, I'd be kissing Angelos' a$$ and trying to persuade him to put some of that MASN $ to good use.

Peter was in Mercy Hospital yesterday. Maybe that is why he was out of touch.

jesse - That is the same post he had up last night, he just added a few more insults. So not only does he lack credibility, he has 'tude.

It is worth saying again:

Clark Clifford said "It is always wrong, everywhere, and for anyone, to believe anything upon insufficient evidence."

Right now the only evidence we have is the unreliable Ken Rosenthall and the professional Angelos bashers at ESPN.

Why don’t we wait to see what happens?

TomC pretty much summed it up. One of two outcomes must occur in the next couple of weeks-- a trade that improves the long-term outlook of the club or an extension with Bedard. I'm not sure we can ever get a prospect that will match Bedard's productivity. Who says he is at his peak? If he throws 215 innings and strikes out 250, wouldn't that be his peak? I fully agree that with 2 years on the contract now is the time to move one way or another.

I also think we can extend Roberts and build around him as well (he'll be solid into his mid-to-late 30s). I think Pie is vastly overrated. We lack power, not speedy defensive outfielders. We need to find production somewhere if not 1B/3B/DH. Jones is someone in that mold although he has a lot to work on. He is no Markakis, for example, who was 23 this past season and his stat line was 637 AB, 23 HR, .300 AVG, 112 RBI, 97 R, 18 SB.

Basically, I am comfortable with a Bedard trade for impact players or a long, expensive extension. For hose of you who like well-pitched games, the man is a joy to watch. We suffered through his nibbling and high pitch counts and the guy has improved every year. Hate to see his growing pains be on our dime and his domination somewhere else.

Anyway, as others have said, we are in the drivers seat on this one. It doesn't mean we should gratuitously piss other teams off (future trading partners), but the pressure is on them at this point--especially Bavasi because the Twins aren't going to blink either.

Finally, a voice of sanity not names Kubactko!

Please scroll down to Bedard Rumors:Tuesday and see Dierkes comments at the end of the post!

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/baltimore_orioles/index.html

if you can't trade bedard and you can't trade roberts to bring back some young promising talent and begin to fill the numerous holes, then you're not rebuilding at all, you're walking the same line you have for years. I guess the plan is to go into '08 with the same team less Tejada? You can be a developing team with younger players and a smaller payroll winning 70 games, or be a franchise essentially going nowhere, winning 75 games with a lot of frustrated players who can't wait to get the hell out. Why is this decision so difficult? Why do people think this team is anywhere near winning? Is that the prevailing attitude amongst MLB officials from outside the org- Get rid of Tejada and win 90 games in the AL East? I was hoping the Tejada trade would simply get the ball rolling...Man, when AM said this franchise was a mess he knew what he was talking about. It seems as though the idea of 'not doing business the same way as the last 10 years' went in one warehouse door and out the other...

I agree with an earlier poster in that I believe the deal is bigger then we know. I can see Bedard and Scott going to Seattle and Roberts going to the Cubs. There may be some other players moving and we might have to eat some salary, so let's be patient.

JPA> I agree with you re: Bedard but it seems like we are a minority here. Most seem to now want him traded even at less than fair value,failing to realize that this is only part of the rebuilding effort.
In my humble opinion, the first step the O's should have made was to immediately purge itself of all unproductive, aging players who are clearly not going to be part of the 'rebuilding' program. This would include: Mora, Gibbons, Huff, Millar. This list is by no means all-inclusive as guys like Hernandez, Bradford, Walker are older but I realize that they are still decent and we can't replace everyone.
I also know that most of these guys mentioned are untradable, even for .50 on the dollar. Therefore, if King Peter sucked it up and bought out some contracts, even if it costs 20 Mill, it would send a STRONG message that the team is serious about rebuilding. Addition by subtraction!

Gman - I beg to differ on the Tigers.

I guess it depends upon what you call “young” but either you are watching the wrong team or you are seeing things. As you may know, Bill James has determined "youth" ends at 27. I think this, like 75% of the stuff that comes from this Svengali, is BS, but this seems to be the definition everyone is using. So look at the Tigers again.

The regular lineup for the Tigers had Granderson (25) but it also had Pudge (34), "new" addition Polanco (30), 'new" addition Guillen (30), "new" addition Ordonez (32), Inge (29), Monroe (29), and new" addition Casey (31) while Thames (29) split time with Dimitri Young (32) and Vance Wilson (33) at DH. They did have Shelton (26) at 1B but he faded quickly and was sent to AAA.

That is 1 guy under 27 in the regular line up.

And far from build around Granderson, the Tigers did not go after players to complement him nor have they tried to feature him as the “face” of the team.

I mentioned Verlander and Bonderman as young guys but, in my example, the O’s already have these guys (Guthrie and Lowen) on board. And the key thing to notice is that the anchor of the rotation was not them but Rogers (41). When Rogers has been out the team has struggled to win - even with the 2 kids in the rotation.

Robertson, meanwhile, was 28 and not a "youth." Zumaya (21) and Rodney (25) were critical to the 'pen, but the addition of Jones (38) and his 37 saves was just as big if not bigger. Zumaya has not done well in the few efforts he had to close and Rodney just can’t close, period. Oh, and the principal (only!) lefty in the 'pen was the now familiar Jamie Walker, who clocked in at 34.

In 2007, the Tigers traded Monroe and Shelton, sent Thames to AAA. The big addition was Sheffield (38). And, when Zumaya went down the