i just saw where wilkerson has agreed to a one year deal with seattle. you can go to bwi and await the arrival of 5 excellent prospects. be sure to take them to phillip's for a crab cake and a tall draft.

as far as roberts, i'm with you. i'll take pie and gallagher, but only with the addition of a solid bat, glove man, base stealer, or some combo of the above.

l is for love this off season

I Agree with everything you said here Roch - there's no need to trade away B-Rob unless we get legit returns, and I don't believe for a second that guys like Gallagher, Cedeno, and Murton qualify as legit returns. Felix Pie has bofa potential, but with Markakis, Jones (presumably), Scott, and soon Reimold as well, we actually have a good young outfield (for the first time this millenium), BUT, our infield sucks now - letting Roberts go will compound this manifold - yeah, we'll have an extra outfielder and pitcher, but that's where we already have some depth. Meanwhile, we already lack a big-league SS, are we supposed to go barren at 2B too? Come on! And besides, I'm not convinced that Roberts will run after '09; I think there's a chance that if he sees quality in the young kids this year and next, he'll be open to staying past '09. One last thing...We need to get Texeira after this year - we have the need, the money, and will also have the opening (sorry Kev, but see ya later) - imagine a 2010 lineup of Weiters, Texeira, Roberts, Rowell, Markakis, Jones, Scott, and Reimold or Snyder. Yeah, we'll stink at SS, but otherwise, that's an impresive young corps!

Go O's!
ps - dump Gibbons, Payton, and if possible, Huff too!

In the alternative, you can hold on to Roberts and get nothing for him after he becomes a free agent...? Pie or top prospect Josh Vitters will not be in the deal unless it were expanded to include Bedard, which is unfortuantely is not happening. Cedeno, Gallagher, Marshall, etc., is fair compensation. Also, perhaps another team will be involved in a three way deal (TX or San Diego) and whereby another young prospect is sent to your beloved O's. In any case, I hope this gets done the Cubs need Roberts....bad.

If the guys reported in the SEA trade are what we get, this is pathetic. Outside of Jones and Sherill we get nothing. For those Tillman fans he is not even rated in Law's top 100 prospects, and he shouldn't be with that 5+ ERA in High A ball. Those projecting him a #2 starter are deluded. Those who complained about letting Mussina get away, get ready. You're getting a .246 hitter, a decent older setup releiver who will most likely leave after a few years or retire, and a bunch of junk.

The most foolish trade I've seen here since Glen Davis.

Who woulda though we'd trade Bedard to SEA and not get Clement, Morrow or Triunfel in the package? Only a masochist.

Terrible, terrible trade!

Those in love with rebuilding. Well, you're rebuilding with faulty materials, and the house will be crumbling down. Get ready for the next decade of cellar ball.

Trade Bedard...keep Roberts! I see us getting good quality prospects back in the Tejada/Bedard deals, but the prospects mentioned in the Roberts deal don't impress me. I don't see us being better off after trading Roberts for the prospects mentioned. Besides...I still think there's a chance Roberts would sign an extension here.

I wouldn't mind getting Mutton if he can be flipped to San Deigo for Green...

Everywhere I read, it says, "Peter Angelos Loves Brian Roberts." O.k, but when does this love really mean anything at all. Peter should give Brian a chance for a new beginning on another team. Then just maybe that would show some love, because by letting him suffer through this rebuilding process is "Down right mean." Doesn't he deserve it? I think this deal with the Cubs "will" get done and Brian Roberts would look good in a Cubs uniform. So, in closing: "Peter, make the deal already."

I'd hate to see Roberts, except for the right package. if roberts goes, who plays second base then? we're already thin up the middle with luis hernandez in there.

The whole Bedard melodrama is puzzling: One day a trade is supposedly nearly consummated, then an attempt is purportedly made to sign him to a contract extension, and now the trade's back on.

What I'd like to know, Roch, is did Angelos call him or didn't he? If so, why was the effort to resign him so weak? I don't know what to believe.

As for the apparently fast-approaching trade, I'm not sure I'd agree quite yet with those who typify it as the O's getting in return "quality, not just quantity." Maybe, but I think the jury should still be out on every player named (Sherrill, the only one with any lengthy time in the bigs, has been a mediocre reliever, save for last year)

A cautionary reminder. After the 1965 season the Reds traded Frank Robinson to the Orioles for Milt Pappas (full name, Pappastediodis--Milt where are you when Peter A needs you?--LOL) a winner of over 200 major league games, along with two other players; that is, "quality, not just quantity."

Reality Check: No one in their right mind would say that Cincinnati benefitted more from the trade. Time will tell on the Bedard deal, should it go down, but no one should assume anything until things play out a bit. (BTW, I posted on the previous blog, "Pieper strikes back," more regarding this--specifically on the players the O's would be getting.)

Right on, Roch! I agree with you 100% on not trading Roberts for mediocre players. He's always had a positive attitude so it's not like he'll hurt the O's if he's still around and you can always trade him at the deadline or next winter if some team makes a better offer.

hey roch, any chance you think the Reds would listen to a package involving Roberts (maybe Huff or Payton too) to get a couple of their hot prospects? But its probably just wishful thinking that they'd separate from Jay Bruce. :-\

The media (except Roch) sure made complete fools of themselves with all the false conjecture and overblown PA bashing. Sure he came by it honestly from his past performances but it is still not as bad as everybody thinks. Yes, Albert Belle and overuling a first round draft pick were deplorable but yet a guy like Gillick gets a free pass. PA didn't twist PG's arm to bring in over the hill garbage like Charlton, Drabek, Guillen and Joe Carter. And whoever brought in crap like Marty Cordova should be triple bashed. I feel better now.

I agree that Roberts should bring quality. Pie and Gallagher would work. There is no reason to trade him. He has been a class act and will continue to be professional during the rebuild.
Bedard on the other hand was really not "a people person".
Let's purge the ugly and rebuild. Roberts hasn't been ugly.
I too am enjoying this offseason.

You're telling me a young .800+ OPS outfieler who's raked at every level of the minor league doesn't qualify as a young impact hitter? Pie is the more appealing prospect due to athleticism, great defense, and a cannon arm, but I highly doubt he ever comes close to what Big Red can do with the bat.

And Roch, are you just basing the Pie thing off of Rosenthal, or are you actually hearing him being mentioned from the O's? FWIW, Rosenthal was on Comcast last night and was backtracking on the Pie thing, saying he didn't think it was likely the cubs would give him up.

I don't see the point in keeping Roberts. I, personally, would be very happy with a Gallagher, Murton and Cedeno (or Eric Patterson) deal. If by divine intervention we are able to get Pie and Gallagher, I'd be ecstatic.

Roch, I hope you stop floating the idea of the O's keeping Roberts. We need total rebuilding and we all need to get behind it.

I just cannot beleive we are only getting "ONE" positional player out of this mess!

Just frigging unbeleivable!!!!

I am loving every moment and hope that these deals will help us be a better team in a year or two. When our minors start to present us with some everyday players and we sign a FA or two - we can be good again...

F is for Faith

How do you pronounce Felix Pie?

Like the food, or like Pee-ay.

Also, who the hell is gonna play second base for us if we trade Roberts?

Bynum? Fahey? Why haven't we gotten more position/infielder prospects?

Do we have any middle infielders in our farm system that could be considered prospects??!

All I can say, is I do not want to go through a year of baseball with the roster composed as it is now. Hopefully there will be changes made over the next couple of weeks. Even then we will have to hope and pray some of those changes work out, but we know what we have right now will not be competetive, EVER.

I haven't commented much on this blog.. but I have to say I'm happy with the trade we'll make for Bedard. I'm happy about Jones in center, playing along with Markakis. Even though he hit .246, he'll be better, and he's just 22.

And I know some people are saying we haven't gotten more positional players... well, we can get them if we flip Roberts to the Cubs for Pie (that's one), Murton (that's two), so at least we get a couple of these. BUT, I will keep Roberts if I don't see anything that will equal Robert's tools (speed, hitting, defense, etc).

Face it, if we trade Roberts, who is our lead off hitter, our speedster, and our second baseman?

My bottom line: Trade Bedard, keep Roberts.

That's pretty much how I feel about trading Brian Roberts too, Roch. Andy has said all along that in order to pull the trigger on a trade he has to believe that it make the team better than it is now. The players supposedly offered for Brian to this point don't fall into that category.

Roch,

I am very confused. What happens to Scott?

I wouldn't mind scott at DH but his defense isn't bad. If I get Pie, Fontenot, and Gallagher I take it for Roberts. If not, I don't and move on. Fontenot isn't amazing, but he's got some fan base here, and i think hes a relatively adaquet fill in.

With all that said, I just don't see Roberts going anywhere. We all saw how long the Bedard trade took. I don't think we're close to anything with chicago despite reports.

I'm told that Pie's name is pronounced P-A. I keep thinking of Pennsylvania as a reminder. Some of you might prefer using Peter Angelos' initials.
As for the chances of him coming here, I'm not hearing that the Cubs are ready to fork him over. But he's the guy I'd keep insisting upon.

Hm. I would have expected more from Earl Weaver. Adam Jones batted .246 in a grand total of 65 at bats. If he still had prospect status, he would be a top 10 guy in all of baseball per BP. Chris Tillman is a guy that could be a top 15 prospect in all of BASEBALL according to Baseball Prospectus next year. He is currently ranked as the #44 prospect in baseball by BP. Butler also has a tremendous upside, but both are young and who knows with young pitching. It's an intelligent risk to take for a rebuilding team with a guy who has little to no desire to stick around after 2 more losing seasons.

Let's say this deal goes through, and just for kicks, the Roberts deal follows for Gallagher, Murton and Cedeno.

That's :

Troy Patton
Matt Albers
Chris Tillman
Tony Butler
Sean Gallagher
Dennis Sarfate
George Sherrill
Kam Mickolio

Not to mention :

Adam Jones
Luke Scott
Mike Costanzo
Ronny Cedeno
Matt Murton

For

Brian Roberts
Miguel Tejada

and

Erik Bedard

I would say that's a pretty good start at a rebuild. You add a significant amount of young pitching to an already pitching rich system and you solidify your outfield for the forseeable future. Are you finished? Of course not - you have major gaping holes in your infield, but this is the RIGHT WAY to fix this team, IMO.

Now, obviously the Roberts deal isn't guaranteed, but if MacPhail can pull off these three deals as I have laid them out... I will applaud the man.

For me, Scott becomes a fourth outfielder whose bat determines how much he plays. It's not like Jones and Pie are proven major league players who can't be budged from the lineup.
Imagine that, a surplus of outfielders! But we're getting ahead of ourselves. I still have no reason to believe Pie would be included in a trade. But you know, one phone call can change everything. At least that's what I hear.

bob - I have one question for you - why are you afraid to use your real name: Ron Smith?

PS - Smoking bans exist in almost every state in the union. States with bans similar to the one Maryland will begin include reliable republican states Utah and Arizona.

Meanwhile, there are numerous counties in the US that prohibit the sale of alcohol (not just the consumption of it in a public place). You may want to look this up. The majority are in republican controlled states and something like 80% have voted republican in almost every state and federal election since 1964. There are numerous cities that are dry, too, but not a lot of statistics on them.

The point is that concern over health is not a partisan issue.

Oh, yea, no one is taking your cigarettes away. You can still buy and smoke them. Just not in public places. And I do not have to worry about getting cancer from YOUR choice.

Earl Weaver wrote:

"Who woulda though we'd trade Bedard to SEA and not get Clement, Morrow or Triunfel in the package? Only a masochist.

Terrible, terrible trade!

Those in love with rebuilding. Well, you're rebuilding with faulty materials, and the house will be crumbling down. Get ready for the next decade of cellar ball."

Earl, you're exactly right. MacPhail seems to love getting 30 year olds who have put up fantastic numbers in limited appearances, and hoping they translate over a full season with more playing time. Interesting, but dubious. I would rather get Jones and Truinfel than Jones, a 30 year old Sherrill, and three borderline prospects.

If you can't get Jones and Truinfel for Bedard, wait until July when other teams get desperate. Roch was right to say that Jones may have blossomed by that time, but so would other players in AA and AAA, and a desperate contender would give up more than one top prospect for Bedard then. The Orioles are in no position to play it safe, with what they've got and what they're getting in this deal.

As for Roberts, I'm all for holding out for Pie and Gallagher from the Cubs, but let's face it, guys whose best asset is speed and up-the-middle defense are the ones whose assets decline the most after age 30 (other than catchers.) So Roberts need to be traded this season, while his value is at its peak.

Rebuilding is a fantastic idea; in fact, for the Orioles, it's the only idea. But trading our stars for a bunch of middling prospects and older players reeks of the Syd Thrift days, when we traded Will Clark, Harold Baines, Charles Johnson, B.J. Surhoff, and others for Melvin Mora and a lot of nothing. The only difference is, those guys were near retirement, and Tejada, Bedard and Roberts aren't. That's what makes the Bedard and Tejada deals so curious.

But since the Bedard deal looks like it's done, let's hope that the defensive boost from Jones, Pie, and Markakis in the outfield, and Hernandez and Fahey in the infield, will help the new rotation of Guthrie, Loewen, Gallagher, Patton, and Cabrera. This year will be rough, but when Weiters, Reimold, Rowell, and Snyder replace Ramon Hernandez, Huff, Mora, and Millar, things might just work out.

2010, here we come. Let's hope it's not the Riley, Coppinger, Stahl, Hale, and Hammonds show all over again, and that this batch of players doesn't come with B12.

well if you listen to the Cubs fans we will be lucky to get a cup cake minus the frosting for him.

Roch, I see that you've been giving your opinion more lately than ever before. I don't agree with you much--I think you play it too safe, rather than waiting until the last minute to get everything that you'd want from a deal--but I really like the evolution in your writing style!!!

I wouldn't mind trading Roberts, but like you said, only if the right deal is there. I understand the Cubs like him a lot, but unless they are including Pie, they just don't have a very attractive offer to put together. It's unfortunate, but their farm is just very very weak.

If they won't part with Pie, then there's no reason to make the trade right now. Unlike Bedard's package from the Mariners, I seriously doubt a package of Gallagher/Colvin/Marshall is the best we'll be able to do with Roberts. If that's all that's on the table right now, then hold onto him, and maybe teams will be looking for a leadoff guy at the trade deadline.

I think keeping Roberts, unlike Bedard, would not necessarily be a bad thing.

I think Bedard is the real deal, but this team needs to build for the future. If the M's are indeed willing to give up Adam Jones and Tillman and more, you just have to make that deal. People here just don't understand the economics of the game, if you really think that this team would be better served signing Bedard to a 5 yr/$90+MM deal...which is what he's going to get, barring injury.

Roberts is a better bet to keep for now, since pitching injuries are so much more common, and Bedard has a bit of a history there. Maybe after a fun year with these Baby Birds, Roberts might like to sign an extension?

If they don't trade Roberts, is there any hope of clearing some of the lousy contracts? I'm sure Jay Payton would prefer to be elsewhere vs. being a 5th OF.

Keep stocking that farm system, Andy...

2010 Projection:

2B Old Man Roberts
CF Adam Jones
RF Nick Markakis
C Matt Wieters
3B Billy Rowell
LF Nolan Reimold ?
SS ?
1B Brandon Snyder (I hope he hits enough to make it as a 1B, because he seems like a great kid.)

SP (in no order) Spoone, Tillman, Liz, Patton, Arrieta, Loewen

oh and Pie isn't coming here. Who's going to play center for them?

PS- Roch, your articles and blog continue to impress of late. Nail on the head here. I really hope we don't give Roberts away here.

Roch,
Love your follow up post--right on the moeny. Bashing the Bedard package now is ridiculous. Bedard is an ace, but he isn't as proven as Santana. Although he probably will be a front-line starter for several years, he could be Barry Zito or the long line of other flame outs (Pavano anyone?). We're getting plenty of value for him. I would rather have Trinufel than the last two pitchers, but if one of them works out we've done great. Just like the Tejada trade, if two of the five turn out to be solid major leaguers, the trade was successful. If three do, we "fleeced them". Why does everyone seem to think we're entitled to more than one great player for our "great" player. If Bedard goes, Roberts needs to go too. If you get a solid pitcher and a strong position prospect, you've gotten alot. Roberts is solid, but he's not Ryne Sandberg. He's a solid lead-off guy who adds speed and a good glove. He's not a guy who will carry your team. If you can get multiple pieces for him, you do it. F is for finally we're going in the right direction. Pull the trigger Andy--two times.

Uh, Dave... you can't much for guys that are near retirement.

The idea is that the prospects coming back in these deals are of a much higher quality than whatever came back for the old men.

IMO, this is the intelligent move for this franchise. The first wise major roster move I have seen in years.

You'll lose with Bedard, Tejada and Roberts. You've BEEN losing with them.

Bring in lots of young pitching, lose 100 games, see what you've got and then deal from there.

Find me a team with a $95 million payroll that won 68 games last year and I will show you a team that needs to do exactly what MacPhail's doing.

Only time will tell if these trades work out. I think the Orioles would have finished last with Bedard/Tejada/Roberts. I see them finishing last without them. I have seen so many different views of these trades that my head is spinning--Some say good trades--others say bad trades. At least this team now has a clear-cut direction--for better or worse. I guess we now see what these kids can do. We know what the team couldn't do last year.

Pie must be included for Roberts or no deal Cubs fan73. How bad do you need Roberts? We are all-in. Do you call or fold?

Agreed on Roberts. The package in return for Bedard is pretty good, both quality and quantity. And I highly doubt he was signing here. He'll get way more money than Angelos would be willing to part with. Roberts, though, is a very rare commodity. An offensive-oriented second baseman that plays great defense, is actually a good fit in the lead off spot, a switch hitter, and is well like on and off the field. You don't trade him for $.75 on the $1.00. If you don't like the prospects you're getting in return, keep him. I will be very pleased with the offseason is Tejada and Bedard are both moved for solid packages. Sure, there won't be anyone to record outs next season, but hopefully the offense progresses. Maybe they'll merge the O's with the Pirates and finally have a competitive team!

I liked the idea of Bedard for 7 more years but can't complain about the depth improvement and a far superior set of OFers. I'd much prefer to be weak offensively up the middle. So there is still plenty of work to do, but perhaps manageable. I haven't looked at an O's roster in a while and said "there is some light at the end of the tunnel". For better or worse, it IS a direction.

I say keep Roberts. He's a second baseman. Clubs aren't going to empty their cupboards for a top tier 2B. It is what it is. He is more valuable to the trajectory of this team as a leadoff man and mentor to the young guys. That statement changes if someone of Pie's youth and talent is involved but I doubt it would make sense for the Cubs to do that.

Lastly, the name Texiera should be banned from this blog. He's a great guy. I pitched against his MSJ team in HS. It's just rediculous to mention his name as a potential FA signing next year. Tough timing and it doesn't fit with the current movement. Back to reality folks. Slow and steady wins this race.

Keep Rooberts if the SEA trade is a go. Might as well have one face of the franchise, and I don't think that he will really walk away if he is the "veteran" to a bunch of youngsters who he IS inspiring to play clean, solid hard-nosed ball. (I know I am opening myself up saying "clean" but really, Roberts is the kind of player you want to lead young players) This team is going to have to build around something- make it Roberts, guthrie, Lowen and a bunch of + prospects ranging from Jones to Scott to Weiters and even Penn and Olson.
Thats not a bad franchise core if you put them together in the same Spring Training facility... oh wait... DOH!

Tough call. I just don't see the Cubs including Pie in the deal along with Gallagher, et al. for Roberts alone. I think I have to fold. That being said, I would be willing to do just about anything to break this 100 year albatross...!

I would keep Jones in CF over Pie actually. Mot sure though. I think he was considered the starting RF because of the 95 mph fastball arm of his. That being said if we had corners of Nick and Adam that would be a heckuva OF in terms of assists. I wonder how that could impact opposing SLG?

KonaBoy,
No chance the Reds want Brian Roberts. They've got Brandon Phillips at 2nd and he's the better of the two-- no offense to B-Rob.

Regarding Roberts to the Cubs, Pie and Gallagher excite me, but Ronny Cedeno and Matt Murton do not. What I want to know is who we're going to get to play 2B and SS. A by-committee approach with Luis Hernandez, Freddie Bynum and Brandon Fahey is not my idea of promising. We lack long-term prospects at those positions, but I'm not sure the Cubs are the team who can provide them to us.

Tim S. -- Bad economics to sign Bedard? How is signing a potential Cy Young candidate bad economics, especially in light of the team trading it's biggest salary away already. That's what people seem to be forgetting: The O's freed up a considerable chunk of change and it would be able to channel it in retaining the services of an ace.

Looking at your projected starters for 2010, I'm left wondering: Isn't '10 when the O's are going to get competitive--maybe even contend? Kidding, right? Not with those five, where they'll be lucky to contend with the Rays for fourth place. (Where's Guthrie, btw--he's only going to be 30 then, and has proven himself as a big league hurler way more than any of your rotation.)

Get rid of Bedard and Guthrie and not sign a front of rotation pitcher to replace them and the O's will continue circling the drain.

JPA -- Teixeira "doesn't fit with the current movement"? What's that, sustained mediocrity for the foreseeable future? Please, the O's need to get a young, proven MVP-type player to come in and soldify the middle of the lineup. That's the movement the team needs to contend, not simply stockpile a bunch of "maybes."

Well, with Roberts, hypothetical lineup:

2b Roberts
cf Jones
rf Markakis
lf Scott
c R. Hernandez
dh Huff
1b Millar
3b Mora
ss L. Hernandez (Lillebridge???)

Buy out Gibbie's contract, reserves are Moore, Redman, Payton, Bynum.

Then see what the pitching does, and next month every young pitcher sees there's five live arms at triple-A if he can't throw strikes.

Only truly awful hitter is Hernandez, but hey, you get a .600 OPS from him, and you've gold solid D up the middle.

At least it'll be fun watching the team win 70 games.

/Wouldn't mind Lillebridge.

I like a return of Pie, Cedeno & Gallagher for BRob. Why not, we are rebuilding. If we are going youth movement, go youth movement....

Dave...do your homework, teams dont trade away all of their best prospects. We got Seattle's best in Jones (hopefully). Get a clue dude..this isnt fantasy land

I just can't imagine making a deal with the Cubs that does not include Pie or Marmol. We are talking about the owners favorite player. So the idea of Murton, Cedeno, and Gallagher coming back seems like a stretch. I understand the Cubs fans want to fleece us but from an O's fan prospective it will cost Marmol or Pie.

One question for Cubs fans? If BRob sucks so bad why are you staking out our fan sites and blogs 24/7?

Roch,

You are the king, but this "one phone call can change everything bit." It's gotta go.

i hope we do trade pie. he's basically corey patterson lite. the local columnists aren't too high on him either. It will be Pie and Gallagher, but the o's have to trade roberts in the next week or i bet it never gets completed.

Chris: "I wouldn't mind getting Mutton if he can be flipped to San Deigo for Green..."

First you'll need to get the mutton out of Jerry's handkerchiefs, digging into the couch and Elaine's coat before the dog's attack.

Ah, bringing in Costanzo from Houston has been so evocative. I suppose getting two Cubs outfielders would be delicious Shepherd's Pie.

If Matt Murton could be flipped for Khalil Greene, that would be one nice flip of the baseball card for the team receiving Greene.

Cubs Fan,

As much as I would love to find a way to include Vitters in this deal, it's not going to happen. He was too recently drafted to be traded.

Why not Roberts for Josh Vitters and a low prospect or an older player? I don't think we are needing another OFer as much as we WILL need a 3B, unless you are satisfied with an old Melvin Mora and an unimpressive Scott Moore.

I like the Bedard trade, because I don't think he'll resign, plus that will hurt the O's wallet when they need to go hard after Texiera and another infielder once we have a whole at 3B or 2B (if Roberts is traded). And the O's will probably need to go after a pitcher as well...either through trading some of the prospects we have gotten or FA.

Sure PA has a lot of money, but fans haven't been going to games, so he is probably losing more money now than he ever has before. Texiera alone won't fill out all the seats, maybe the OF seats, but not the season tix.

I wanna see some Orioles Magic in the next week please.

Let's all keep in mind that Bedard has finished 1 game...IN HIS CAREER! One complete game...seriously? Get rid of him. You can tell he hates it here.

And what's with dissing the young Mariner prospects. With the exception of Sherrill and Jones, the others are all under 20...and Seattle is known for rushing young pitching through their system.

Remember...we finished 4th (27 games out) WITH Bedard, Tejada, and Roberts. I agree we should keep Robers unless we get a fair deal in return, but lets get a little perspective here...

If the Bedard trade goes through, I'll be very impressed with the work MacPhail has done...people questioned him in Minnesota too.

Why doesn't anyone talk about using Scott Moore if roberts is traded? The guy is a great young prospect that no one knows about that they got for Trachsel last year. He hits for average, power, all fields, and has great speed. He should be starting this year.

I don't see any point, from the Cubs' point of view, of giving up Pie for Roberts...one left-handed bat with speed for the other. Unless the Cubs are projecting an outfield of Soriano, Fukudome and Colvin. I would give up Pie as one of four-five pieces for Bedard.

Is the media trying to get rid of Erik Bedard like they did Murphy because he doesn't grant interviews often? I'm so tired of rooting for this team. I'm going to give up being a baseball fan altogether.

We have to trade Roberts as well. Even if we get Gallagher, Marshall, and Cedeno or Murton. By trading Tejada, Bedard, and Roberts we will have gone from the 25th to 30th ranked farm system to the 1st to 5th ranked adding the recent draft. Our farm system will be stockpiled with young pitchers and outfielders. Also, if you look at what McPhail is doing he's going after pitchers that are 6' 5" and taller. These pitchers tend to get better as they mature and get their mechanics under control. Their upside is much higher. McPhail knows what he's doing if daddy Angelos will get out of his way.

"If the guys reported in the SEA trade are what we get, this is pathetic. Outside of Jones and Sherill we get nothing. For those Tillman fans he is not even rated in Law's top 100 prospects, and he shouldn't be with that 5+ ERA in High A ball. Those projecting him a #2 starter are deluded. Those who complained about letting Mussina get away, get ready. You're getting a .246 hitter, a decent older setup releiver who will most likely leave after a few years or retire, and a bunch of junk.

The most foolish trade I've seen here since Glen Davis.

Who woulda though we'd trade Bedard to SEA and not get Clement, Morrow or Triunfel in the package? Only a masochist."

I don't agree with the Glenn Davis analogy and although I will take the deal that's on the table I agree that we should be getting more. The deal that the Reds supposedly had on the table with Hamilton, Votto, and Cueto was much better. What happened to that?

For all those that are in love with Billy Rowell, I have been watching this young man play at Delmarva. If he doesn't learn to play first base he may not be a major league position player.

Roch -- RIGHT ON! I'd hate to see Bedard go, but for the RIGHT package I guess I am okay with it. (not really, I might cry).

But as far as Roberts, I'm totally against it. What I find funny is all of these posters on here that say they would rather come out to the games if it was a bunch of young players losing 100 + games, than a team losing like 90 some games with our veterans. I think you are all full of crap. I guarantee you if the O's trade Bedard and Roberts, the stadium will be even more empty than it was before. Because like always you all will be tired of the losing and stop supporting our players. Then complain that you are not supporting Angelos anymore with your money blah blah blah.

I think this season is going to be quite interesting when it comes to fan support. I just feel sorry for the baby birds that are getting wrapped up in this nonsense.

Cubs seem to want their Pie (cake) and eat it too. We are willing to trade our All Star For their unproven elite prospect and they say "no deal" then I agree "no deal" for Roberts. Quid Pro Quo ( Something for Something). Lets not just trade in order to make a trade. I have no trouble keeping Roberts until the trade deadline and see what kind of packages that playoff bound teams can offer.

Forget about an outfield of Jones, Markakis, and Pie...I'm perfectly content with Jones, Markakis, and Reimold, who may very well be starting by June and who many reports (including the guru that is Keith Law) name him as one of the more underrated prospects in the game. There's no way that anyone can convince me that the gap between Pie and Reimold is worth giving up Roberts, especially when Pie seems like such an enigma.
If I'm MacPhail, the only condition under which I give up Roberts is if Hill is part of the return, which seems highly unlikely.
And for what it's worth, why isn't Eric Patterson part of any package that the O's ask for in return? He's not supposed to be great, but he's still one of the better second base prospects out there, and who else do the O's plan on sending out there, this year or next?

If the Bedard trade goes through with Jones as the centerpiece, why not put Jones back at shortstop since he used to play the position? You can then make a move for Corey Patterson back at centerfield for a couple of years.

Dave - I agree with you - except I am not in favor of trading Roberts either.

I am not going to rehash my points about how the team could rebuild and get younger without trading its 2 top assets.

I will say this - "everyone" says that the return for a Huff, Millar, Payton or similar will not be much more than a C+ or B prospect but what do you call More? He was the #3 Cub prospect and a 1st round pick. We got him for Trax.

Meanwhile, my problem with MacPhail's additions and potential additions is that they look so familiar. Jones is a catch. He is the type of position player we should already had in our system but don't because of too many bad drafts. Tillman has a lot of people excited but he would be behind Arrieta and Bascom and maybe Beato and Erbe.

Sherrill, if he can close or set up, is another big addition, but he has never closed. Or set up. Not that he can't, but we are asking him to change teams and roles and pick up tons of pressure. We couldn't find a vet to close?

Meanwhile, I thought we had all decided that tall people are genetically incapable of controlling their body mechanics.

Tillman and Butler are both tall. Do we want to add guys doomed to MLB mediocrity? (I do not think we are ready to give up the fantasy that DCab is about to metamorphosis into Christy Mathewson...) Tillman has never pitched above AA. Have you heard of Richard Stahl? Beau Hale (the "next Roger Clemens")? I'd rather see a guy ready to step into the bigs than a kid who could just as easily wash out as so many others. Big risk.

Jones is listed as a Tori Hunter type CF. Why do we want Pie? And, if we get Pie, why do we want to shift Tori Hunter to a corner? I know about the Brady thing, but have you met Nolan Reimold? Luke Scott? We need guys who can play 2B and 1B better than those we have in the system.

Gallagher is NO better than the next 10 - 15 pitchers in the system. And what are we going to ask him to do? The Cubs have him slotted as a reliever. If they don't think he is a starter why do we expect different.

I think if you are going to trade Roberts and Bedard and do not get Jones, Clement, Morrow, Hill and Patterson or Fontenot, minimum, in return you are not getting the most for them.

These will not be BAD trades; I am just not sure they are the right moves.

So, if/when the Bedard deal goes down, who goes from the 40-man roster? While many people want more established prospects than Tillman, Butler, Mickolio, the advantage of guys like that is that they are very young, have upside, and don't need to go on the 40-man roster yet. Jones and Sherril would, so we'd be one over. The possible Roberts deals would mean more releases to clear space. Roch, do you have any idea who will be trimmed? Aquino? Johnson? F Cabrera? Or does MacPhail go for it and part with Payton?

When the season comes things will get easier when Ray and Baez can move to the 60-man DL and not count against the 40-man limit. I'd guess that will be used to get us another backup catcher option on the roster (like Davis?).

Roch. The key words in your blog are'people will embrace the rebuilding plan if it is EXECUTED CORRECTLY!...Should a rebuilding plan include adding so many players over 30, especially 2 guys we acquired or in the process of acquiring-ie Scott/Sherill. We unloaded Tejada and likely Bedard mainly because of their age and Roberts may be next. Glancing at the roster now, I see numerous players over 30-Mora, Millar, Hernandez, Walker, Bradford, Payton,Gibbons, Huff so what gives with these guys?
I realize that you can't shed all these guys at once but until some effort is made, I'm not going to be convinced that the O's are 'executing' the plan correctly.

Roch, just wondering if you get an email every time someone posts on your blog? If that's the case, and you have to read all of these, I feel sorry for you. These recent trade talks have probably overloaded your inbox.

And just a random thought.... can anyone tell me why when its bright and sunny 83 is a complete mess, but when it's pouring rain and ice I get to work in like ten minutes? I'm so confused!

KEEP ROBERTS PLEASE!

Roch, I agree about Roberts. I think, in the end, dealing players like Miguel Tejada, Erik Bedard, and Brian Roberts and getting prospects/young players in return is the way to go, but if two out of three go and Roberts is the one left, I can’t complain with that because he does bring a lot to the club and, of the three, I think he’s the one who would fit nicely in the “veteran presence” role. At this point, I don’t think it would be devastating to the club if he stayed here until the end of 2009 and walked in free agency (though Roberts may have a different opinion). After Bedard goes, I think the club should focus on locking up Nick Markakis long term. Yes, Markakis and not Roberts. Markakis is more important to this club’s future than Roberts at this point and the club cannot drag its feet signing him.

After dealing Tejada and Bedard, if the latter actually happens, the club will have netted 8 to 10 players in return. If 2 or 3 of them are contributing to this club in 2009 or 2010, it will have been a success.

While dealing these players and building for the future with the return is critical, for me, the most critical thing this offseason was unloading the deadweight—Payton and Gibbons in particular, Mora and Huff to a lesser extent. That hasn’t happened, obviously, and I thought these would’ve been the easiest deals to make since we can’t really expect much in return. Maybe dealing Bedard and what we get in return makes these deals happen.

And with all of the new faces that could be on this team in April, you have to wonder just how disgruntled guys like Payton, Mora, and Huff—guys who don’t seem to be too shy about voicing their displeasure—will be and who will be the first to demand a trade. There’s nothing more unpleasant than mediocre players being crybabies on a bad team.

hate to say it Roch, but I disagree with you about the Roberts deal. I would make the deal for Murton, Gallagher and Cedeno. They all have potential and could pan out for us. I would rather get a lower level prospect with more potential than Murton but he's a good player.

This would also give us the ability to flip some of these players for a decent middle infield prospect. I don't know what needs the Rockies have but they already have a great young SS and they have another one in the minors named Hector Gomez. We could get that guy with a Walker, Murton and Albers package. I don't really know the specifics of Hector Gomez but the point is that we have enough pitching prospects to flip some of them to fill our organizational holes.

Jennifer-- I'm glad you called everyone's bluff. If we lose 90-100 games with a bunch of young guys, I wonder how many supporters of the youth movement will be at the Yard. Sure, a bunch of people on this board will be there because they have followed this sad team this far, but I doubt to many casual baseball fans have much interest anymore. I guess the crack PR staff will dig up some Baby Birds slogans and run wih it. How awful is the marketing of this team? Just another reason why UA + Cal need to step in when PA decides to sell. That's my pipe dream.

Ken Francis-- I actually agree that we should look to pick up a young bat like Texiera, I'm just saying we won't so there isn't much use wasting energy on it. Regardless of his thoughts, what recent FO decision gives you any indication we would spend the kind of money that he will demand? Plus, how do you rebuild while continuing to give up your top draft picks? I think he is young enough that his signing for 6-7 years takes care of a lot of problems, but it's just not on this team's radar from what I have seen. We're doing the quantity over quality thing at the moment.

Right on, Roch. Keep Roberts unless you get exactly the trade that you are looking for. However, let's really hope that we get that trade. We need to be committed to this re-building effort.

I was looking at Law's Top 100 prospects last night. The Rays have 10 players in the top 100; including 4 in the top 16; 5 in the top 25! They are going to be a very scary team in a couple of years. http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/insider/columns/story?columnist=law_keith&id=3221365.

In for a penny, in for a pound. Either they stock and rebuild with youth or they don't. Roberts fetches more than the other players left (Markakis excluded). You deal him and keep stocking. Some of the players in the Tejada, Bedard and (for the sake of argument, Roberts) deals won't progress to MLB status. So it is a numbers game here and they really need to stock the pond.

Mora, while a slumping performer, has a fine attitude as a vet. He'll be good for the other players. Roberts, OTOH, can net something.

This team needs to do something strong for once, and holding back when in prospect/player gathering status is not wise.

are you trade haters living on a different planet than I am? I LOVE BEDARD my favorite oriole right now BUTTTTTTTT we are NOT going to win while he is in baltimore and he has made it clear he will only talk about a one year extension. HIS AGENT HAS MADE THAT CLEAR. He has the most value right now and we are getting 5 players back all with good upside. Sherril is probably going to be used as a closer then come trade deadline time Traded because his value has risen due to him being a closer. Tilman throws 96-98 mph Butler is a 6'7 lefty who is only 20 years old, Think a thicker randy johnson who doesn't throw as hard. The 6'9 kid could be the wild card here he puts it together and there is an impossing figure as you could get on the baseball field. So if you hate the trade fine don't come to the games and don't come in 2 years when instead of being a 4th or 5th place team. I know that i was going to give up my season tickets if they didn't do this trade because this team was not going to magically get better SO STOP ROOTING FOR PLAYERS AND START ROOTING FOR THE TEAM LIKE REAL FANS

If Bedard goes, is it time to take another look at bringing back Kris Benson? dare I say Steve Traschel?

I don't know why everyone is down on Matt Murton. Matt Murton has done nothing but produce at every level of his career. His avg. in the majors hover around .280-.300, and that's without consistent at bats. It's tough to come in and spot start here and there, especially when facing major league pitching. Murton will hit for .300+ at the major league level, and last year, he started to show more power. As a Cubs fan, I'd hate to see him go, but with Fonzie and Fukudome locked up for 11 yrs combined, there's no room for him.

If you gave Murton consistent playing time, he would emerge as a middle of the lineup producer.

Also, your views on Cedeno suprise me as well. I know he hasn't put it together at the ML level, but he has all the intangibles to be an above avg. middle infielder. He's playing in the Caribbean Series this weekend, check him out. He plays for Licey.

By the way, I've enjoyed reading this blog. Of course, my interest has been with Bedard, b/c if Bedard doesn't go, there's no chance Roberts will go.

This might be directed more to the Cubs fans, but are you aware of any good Cub blogs?

JWBBZ--You should check out the prospects that the A's got for Nick Swisher. Your mean tone aside, it's a shame when fans get so used to mediocrity that they can't even imagine a great trade, unless they're on the losing end of it.

josh - I AM ROOTING FOR THE TEAM!!!!

What, YOUR way is the ONLY way?

And what team are we supposed to root for? Frederick? I root for the Orioles.

Haven't you been listening? People here have been saying "Just wait for our good minor leaguers to make it to the majors!" But they have been saying it for SEVERAL years. I'm tired of waiting. While it may be great if Frederick or Bowie go undefeated this year, I want the O's to win NOW. I am waited out.

I really do not agree with you that the Orioles get better with maybes.

Tillman gets all kinds of raves but he is not a major league pitcher nor is he likely to be soon. No matter what his PR is, NO ONE has any idea if he will EVER make a major league roster or, if he does, will be any good.

The kid Butler is tall. So? He is not ahead of ANY Oriole pitching prospect on his or any level above. "Thicker Randy Johnson who doesn't throw as hard"? How many thousands of pitchers in and out of professional baseball does this describe? You can't compare anyone to Johnson, Clemens, Palmer, etc. until they ACCOMPLISH something in the majors. DCab is compared to Johnson ad nauseam and he is no better a pitcher today then he was 3 years ago. Tall means nothing. He is an A ball pitcher moving to an organization teeming with A ball pitchers. Whoop-de-doo.

We are sending one of the top LH starters in baseball to Seattle for 2 players and 3 maybes. Bedard will be winning 15 games a year for Seattle for the next 6 - 7 years but we have no idea if 60% of the return we get on this deal will ever play a game in the majors.

There is a difference between rebuilding and gambling. You want to gamble go to Vegas. You want to rebuild get some MLB players. Where are the MLB players?

We do not need to restock the minors with pitchers. We have a ton. Pitching in the minors is not a weakness. In fact, many of our minor league pitchers are highly regarded. More so than the guys MacPhail has brought in. Meanwhile, who will lead off and who will be our next 2B? What 1B or SS prospect do we have? If Jones and Markakis are hurt who can we call up? Where are these guys?

When 2007 started we were all thinking, "How close are Riemold, Rowell, Snyder [and, later, Wieters]?" MacPhail was supposed to get young "major league ready" players who could step in or be ready in another year. And Jones is a good pickup. But, after trading 3 of our top 4 players we only have Scott - who is about to hit the age that seems to be universally regarded as Over the Hill here - and Jones. Scott does not replace Tejada by any stretch. Jones does not replace Roberts, either. Also, he could either be the next Andruw Jones or the next Ron Kittle.
Here we are at the start of 2008 and we are still all thinking, "How close are Reimod, Rowell, Snyder and Wieters?"

If you are thinking we will get those good young players in the NEXT trade, who is that going to be? Markakis is not going to be traded. MacPhail has shot his load and we will not be any better in 2008 or 2009 than we were in 2007.

In fact, we won't start to have any hope of getting better until the guys who were already on board BEFORE MacPhail got here start to reach the majors.

In that case, why make the trades?

Anyone think that Sherrill could be packaged with Roberts? Even though most clubs would not part with their frontline prospects for an All-Star second baseman, I wonder if the combination of a top-flight second baseman and reliever could net two or three of an organization's top eight propsects.

Roch,

In my opinion trading Roberts would be a Must. You can't get half pregnant!! Have half a roster of vets (who are just plain awful) and half rebuilding blocks. Further more it would almost be like holding Roberts hostage and nothing good comes from making someone do what they don't want to. Roberts has said more than once that he does Not want to be part of a rebuilding process and another two years here is Baltimore would kill him. Fans need to understand that just because they make him the face of the franchise does not make it so. If Baltimore baseball does not trade Roberts for Pie & Gallagher they are CRAZY.

Jeff -

So you are already to annoint Adam Jones a .246 hitter based on 65 AB's? I'm glad you aren't a scout in this organization. Based on Cal Ripken's call up and the poor numbers he posted, I suppose you would have labeled him a failure too! Get real.

And for those that want to rip the O's for taking an old 30 year old reliever (Sherrill), consider that many of these continue pitching effectively well into their mid thirties. Some even beyond that!

no my way is not the only way its the fastest way to revive a team? you say we have pitching in the minors but then you say what we are getting in retrun is no gurantee?? so if seattles minor league pitchers are not guranteed than why are ours? Now we have 10-15 good pitching prospects hopefully 6-8 become contributors and a couple become the future front end of our staff.
we get a CF who could be a great one in jones, to go with markakis for the next 10 years if the orioles of course resign these players when they are free agents in 5 years. Maybe by then we have a winning ball club and players want to play for the orioles.Becuase right now they do not want to stay here let alone come as free agents.

To your point about major league ready players NO team in a pennant race would give up a star in return for a starting pitcjher in this day and age. We can't get better than we got in this deal, unless we trade with a non contender in a 1 for 1 deal but how does that really help us in the future. This team will not win this year or next year but 2010 when these pitchers are big league ready and our young position players burst into the majors and the # 4 pick in the 08 draft and the # 1 pick in the 09 draft make it to the bigs then we can contend again and build a winner.

Just a thought, but why not root for the Twins/Mets trade to fall apart?

If it does, sign Bedard to an extension, and make a trade offer of Brian Roberts (since they don't have a legit 2nd baseman, and he is a star that they may be able to resign), Liz, Troy Patten and either Brandon Snyder or Erbe for Santana.

I realize we are rebuilding, but imagine how easy it would be to attract tallent in 2009 if we had a 1-2 punch of Santana and Bedard.

1. Santana
2. Bedard
3. Loewen
4. Guthrie
5 Anyone else

That looks good for 5-7 years.

I SAY KEEP ROBERTS
We have lots of talent coming up but none at the middle infield position. The only one we have for the future is Luis Hernendez, and he is likely going to take over SS. Still no second-baseman. Thats why we hang on to him until his contract expires or we get a huge young talent. Also make the trade with the M's for Adam Jones, George Sherrill, Chris Tillman, and 1 or 2 other prospects.
Sherrill would provide a strength in the bullpen and a possible closer.
Jones would probably take the CF job.
Tillman would probably be at AA Bowie.
The other prospects could range between A Advanced to AAA Norfolk.

Roch. we still desperately need a big bat. Is that going to happen? The free agent market still has some available, even though Boston wrapped up Casey for a cheap one year deal. The O's need to do the same

Maybe the hold up on the trade(s) is we are trying to include a Gibbons, Payton, or Huff. Maybe that can make the difference to upgrade one prospect and unload some salary. The other team could get a real leader.

Bedard for some quality Mariner players favors the Orioles. Make the trade today, already.

Well, here goes, I am bloggin' on this site.

Regarding the Bedard for Jones etc. trade...

Reasons to trade bedard now:
1. Our minor league system is nearly devoid of talent. If anyone was looking at their development last year, no one position player under the age of 25 in our minor league system is accomplishing much. Billy Rowell has a very sweet swing, but is really not ready in the field. I saw him in 06 in aberdeen try to play 3rd base. He dropped 3 pop-ups. I now he's just akid, but he looked very awkward in the field. Reimold was hurt most of the year. He has not had any knock out years down at the minors, and he is not even at AA yet. Bowie had a 1b, of they got out of boston's system who had a great year, hit well over .300 with power. But he was 25+.

So, we have to fix the foundation before our facade of an organization collapsed on itself.

2. How sure are we that Bedard, who wants 15mm year or more for 6-7 years, will actually be a stud pitcher that long? His stuff was the most electric in baseball between may and July. But before that, what did we have? Before 06, he was looked at a developing pitcher. He was sort of small, and lac