Has there been any word on Jones' reported condition---it seems to be suspect info to me--if it is a real concern then fly him in check it out and move on---why is this not being done--my response it is just a smoke screen for additional issues that the Orioles are not admitting.(Angelos)

Do you have confirmation that Andy is sleeping at night?!! I wouldn't be able to. And I am sure nestled in Florida is a very unsettled Dave Trembley. Not easy to have a 1 year contract and not know who you are working with.

Peter Gammons said, at the end of his Johan Santana coverage, that by this time next week he expects Bedard to be in Seattle and Roberts in Chicago. Interesting.

Thank you for the update. I believe the message, although crypted, is that the Orioles checked out Jones and everything came back fine. I believe this is why Roch sees the trade happening very soon.

On want to go on the record and say the proposed deal for Bedard does not feel like we are getting enough back in return. This is why making trades for the sake of making trades is a bad idea.

60 whole seconds?!? I think you're selling Brady a little short there Roch.
-m

Where did this hip condition story come from?

so jones is a fan of "The Hip" (i.e. The Tragicially Hip)....

if so we can Lock PA in the trunk of a car..

Hip is for Hip Reference.

Roch,

Do you know anything about these "other" teams involved in the Bedard talks or is that just MacPhail blowing smoke?

Did Santana's trade stir up any NL interest such as with the Reds?

If the 5 names I heard are still what we are set to receive from the Mariners, I can't help but be disappointed after seeing what Haren pulled in from the Diamondbacks. Jones great, Tilman - maybe, Sherril worthless to us, the other 2 - very low level prospects.

Didn't Haren pull in like the #2,3,4,7 prospects or something from the Diamondbacks. Isn't the Matt Garza for Delmon Young trade a better trade than this one?

I've unfortunately spent too much time glued to the Sun recently getting updates and am hoping this issue gets resolved some way soon.

No CF, no closer, no bullpen, no shortstop...

These deals HAVE to go down, right?

H is for Hoping

My friend directed me to this Under Armour commercial with our own Markakis.....I'm sure you all knew about this sorry! It's early and I am very sleepy.

http://www.underarmour.com/baseball/video.cfm

It's just nice to still see our players in commercials. I thought that would die when Cal left.

Maybe we will see Gibbons in an ad for steroids?

Or perhaps Mora in a glowing toothpaste ad. Since his smile brightens my day!

Maybe Huff will appear in a commerical for Smirnoff Vodka and Girls Gone Wild?

Or Hernandez in some ad for McDonalds or the BK Lounge (Thank You Dane Cook)?

Uh I'm tired of this Bedard crap. Why do I have a weird feeling that I'll wake up tomorrow and open the paper and see this:

ROBERTS TRADED TO THE CUBS. BEDARD SIGNS EXTENSION!

That would be quite funny actually.

Everyone is, of course, free to express and vent whatever they are feeling. But it has become a bit wearying to read the same ideas over and over and over. Maybe shorthand would work. How about this?

Meddles. = Peter Angelos is a horribly meddlesome owner who hurts the teams interests by not delegating sufficient authority to his GM.

Greedy. = Peter Angelos does everying just to line his own pocket and squeeze the last nickel from us poor suffering fans.

Laughingstock = The Orioles have become a laughing stock of epic proportions throughout the game. Everyone ridicules us and it is embarrassing to even be known as a fan.

Once Proud. = Oh the humanity! The proudest and greatest franchise in the beautiful and timeless game of baseball has squandered its rightful place among the heroic institutions on earth and has fallen to the bottom of the barrel.

Sucks = Peter sucks, he is a horrible little troll and his evil spawn sons are just as bad, we hate him , hope he expires soon, and know the team will never be any good as long as he is still around.

Quit (X) = I quit being a fan, buying tickets, going to the Yard, liking the O's, thinking fondly of Brooks, whatever, because of (X) and I will not change my mind until (not X).

There! that should help a lot. Most of the posts here can now be reduced to shorthand. For example:

"Meddles, Sucks, Once Proud, Quit (angelos)."

or maybe: "Greedy, Laughingstock x 10!"

That will leave everyone room to add any new thoughts or ideas and hopefully allow some discussion that transcends the repetitive venting.

thoughts anyone?

Who are these other teams?? If wasn't bad enough, now it's an absolute embaressment being and Orioles fan. Everybody in the country is laughing and mocking us. It's pathetic. I can't say I blame them. Our front office has turned this into a joke. Like usual. I would not blame any teams that want to black list us.

The only way you turn down this trade, if the Reds are back in contention and they build a package around Bailey and Votto, cause Bruce is off limits.

Why are all the reports saying that a Bedard trade would guarantee a B-Rob trade? If the O's did that wouldn't they just be adding more holes to fill (middle infielder, lead-off hitter)? It sounds like we'd get Pie and Gallagher in return for B-Rob, do we need more young OF and starting pitchers? I'd like to see a major league ready middle infielder and/or proven pitchers.

Adam Jones likes hip hop? Void this trade !! Seriously, whats the deal w/ his hip? Was it an ugly rumor?

Hey Roch,

A writer from your neck of the woods...Eldersburgian!

I'm not so sure we should make the move now, or ever? Erik Bedard is one of the best in the league, and unless we think his arm is going to fall off...why dump him now? Can't we get MORE this summer for him, or next fall?

Also, now that Santana is going to the Mets, maybe other better offers may pop up!

So if Bedard and Roberts go...who will be our markee players? Melvin and Nick? Remind me again why I'm paying even more for my seats this year?

Can you please submit your opening day lineup again so I can remind myself that this isn't a dream!...hey I guess we better cross our fingers they get the new HD scoreboards installed!

Vernon,

Read Roch's last sentence. Your answer is there.

Hopefully the trade will go through. If it is indeed Bedard for Jones, Tillman, Sherrill, Butler and Mickolio, we get the Mariners Minor League player of the year (Jones), it's Minor League pitcher of the year (Tillman - at 19 yrs old), a lefty reliever with a potential to close (Sherrill), a potential bullpen guy in 2008 (Mickolio) and another solid pitching prospect (Butler). After seeing what the Mets gave up to get Santana, I'm okay with this deal. I sincerely believe that this is the best that the Orioles can do, unless Bavasi decides to throw in Triunfel finstead of Butler and Mickolio.

it's a shame that mr. mcphail has to work SO hard to convince mr. angelos that a deal is as good as it truly is. perhaps with time mr. angelos will feel more comfortable with the way mr. mcphail builds a championship team. you would think the resume would be enough, but perhaps the boss has been so burnt in the past..... anyhow, here's to hoping wise heads prevail, and that this deal can be revived.

h is for holy double talk, batman

I believe it is Andy, NOT Angelos that is holding up the deal. He had first hand knowledge that Minnesota was dumping Santana. Now that Santana is moved, Bedard is the last top level pitcher available. The Mariners are trying to force Andy's hand saying the deal is in place, when it is not! Now the Yankees, Reds, Mariners and Angels have to outbid one another to get him. Instead of getting 1 top prospect and 2 upper level prospects, we can get 2 top prospects and 2 upper level prospects. I sure would not want to play poker against Mr. MacPhail.

Minnesota will receive New York's Nos. 2, 3, 4 and 7 prospects, according to Baseball America's rankings for Santana. Granted , Jones is Seattle's top prospect, but is he as good or better than NY's #2? It's all relative, however, the overall package is better than what the M's were offering for Bedard in my opinion.

Now this is a 1 year rental, they don't get Santana for 2 years, as the M's do Bedard. That's a huge difference in value too. So I say the pot was not sweet enough for Bedard. Regardless of how or why this deal has gotten f'ed up, & who is creating rumors for the cover story, it's a good thing it happened I say.
Now with Santana gone, Bedard's worth has just increased, at least until the trade deadline in July. Now we should demand better for Bedard from Seattle. Otherwise, keep him & see who comes calling, partially desperate, in July.

Hey Roch, what do you think the chances are that Tom Brady is on an internet dating site cruising chicks half his age, 3 or 4 years after his retirement?

Roch,

Care to elaborate on that hip comment?

Word from Mercy Hospital was that PA was having a few FO executives removed from his backside.... the missing Flanagan has been located.

If Andy is sleeping at night he is the only one of us two that is............... and I am just a fan. I find myself getting up in the middle of the night and checking for any updates. It is really said when you are paying more attention to a guy named Roch then your wife. The sad life of an Oriole Fan.

Roch, now that Santana is headed to the Mets, how does this affect our return on a Bedard trade? The Mets got to keep their #1 prospect AND Pelfrey. Do others teams look at the Mets deal and think "we don't need to offer as much for Bedard" or, now that Bedard is the best available pitcher, do they need to up the ante? What's your take?

Is Roberts to the Cubs still for the same second rate players? MacPhail really needs to forget about giving his old friends a gift and hold on to Roberts until whenever somebody makes a real offer!

Hey Roch, dont forget about Millar's post-season appearance. Rowell's might go over a little better in Baltimore though!

Roch, I'd be willing to bet that if your name isn't Markakis you probably don't sleep well in the O's organization. I am as critical as anyone on the O's, but something about MacPhail makes me believe he has got this under control. If he is stalling for better offers he is a genius. Who would have thought that the O's could get more for Bedard than the Twins got for Johan Santana!

Hi Roch,

Would you please help the fans understand where this "Jones-has-bad-hip" rumor originated?

In today's PressBox.com "Morning Coffee" report, we read that "According to Roch Kubatko over at the Sun, Adam Jones may be damaged goods..." with a link to your "Quick Comment on Jones" blogpost. However, MLBTR says the rumor originated from a Stan Charles on Mark Viviano's radio show.

What gives, Roch?

Roch - I know you do not deal in unconfirmed stories and you have also made your feeling about giving out information regarding Jones health in general very clear (in fact, I think the Healthcare Information Portability and Accountability Act prohibits it with out his permission!), but can you give us any hints about what gave the Orioles pause?

I guess the current hint is that it is either not a hip related question or that Jones had a physical and it proved to not be a problem. So, has this issue been resolved?

It appears not to be a show stopper.

this is only adding to the torture i induce on myself in rl lol

h is for hurry up

So, should I just write "Groan" for every one of the jokes, Roch?

Roch: Does the Santana trade actually hurt the Orioles negotiating position in a Bedard deal? I was very surprised how little the haul for Santana was, although I understand that his salary demands play a huge role in his tradeability. On the flip side, Bedard becomes the highest profile pitcher available in the trade market and his salary for the next 2 years is reasonable. Oakland did quite well for Dan Haren who has similar numbers to Bedard but is not a lefty. I think the O's need to focus on position player prospects than pitcher prospects because most pitchers take alot longer to develop and organizations tend to give up on pitching prospects quicker than position ones i.e. Jeremy Guthrie(former Cleveland top prospect). I also think Triunefel would be a necessary acquisition in the M's deal because when BRob gets traded, the O's mid-infield will look dreadful even with Ronny Cedeno for the next couple years as we have no prospects in the lower levels. Triunefel is about 2 years from being ML ready.

Hey Roch -- With Edwards and Guliani both dropping out today, is there any truth to the rumor that the O's are going to announce today that they are dropping out of the 2008 race for the A.L. East title?

If I was Andy McPhail, I would be sleeping wonderfully. He has two of the top bargaining chips in all of baseball. And he has the top pitcher on the trade market with the Santana deal done.

Sure, their are plenty of holes in the roster, but none of which that can not be temporarily filled with quick phone call (Cory Patterson, Jorge Julio). Remember, the Orioles are rebuilding, whose to say a couple holes for the young guys to fight for is a bad thing anyway.

Like I said before, other teams are on the clock....not us. (unless you consider 2010 being on the clock). The bidding for Bedard should just start getting good. If you want him...it's time to pay up!

We naturally compare the Santana deal to what we might get for Bedard, but another comparison emphasizes that MacPhail did great in the Tejada deal. If we could have dealt Tejada for Santana, we'd have done it (regardless of years left on each of their contracts). Now, would you trade Scott-Albers-Patton-Sarfate-Constanzo for Gomez-Humber-Guerra-Mulvey? That's a toss-up, in my opinion.

My vote is that Nick Markakis is in the Under Armour commerical. I saw him during his rookie year in a magazine (don't remember which) for Under Armour and was kinda bitter because in the entire ad, not even in the small print, did it state that it was him...hope I didnt spoil your fun Roch! Speaking of Under Armour, did you get a chance to watch O's Xtra when it was Under Armour day last year and Amber Theoharis (my favorite side line reporter!) was live with alot of the employees from Under Armour? Hilarious. Amber was talking about it being Under Armour day and went to one of the employees and asked "Are you having a good time?" in which the guy replied "Yeah I'm having a f***in great time" live on the air. I died laughing because the look on Amber's face...priceless it really was. Thanks for letting me post Roch keep up the good work!!! Go O's

if the o's don't make these trades - bedard, roberts - they can kiss my money goodbye.

i've had enough with this team and its owner. i grew up in baltimore and have had to watch the team i love be completely destroyed by peter angelos.

if these trades don't go thru - it will prove (once again) that this owner is meddling in something he has no understanding of.

attendance is bad and it will get worse if they don't correct their course and start re-building.

Brian, are you kidding me? Do you even watch baseball?

"Now with Santana gone, Bedard's worth has just increased, at least until the trade deadline in July. Now we should demand better for Bedard from Seattle. Otherwise, keep him & see who comes calling, partially desperate, in July"

With the Mets getting Santana. Do you thing the Braves will ask about Bedard?

Anne-

"Is Roberts to the Cubs still for the same second rate players? MacPhail really needs to forget about giving his old friends a gift and hold on to Roberts until whenever somebody makes a real offer!"

The mentioned Pie and Gallagher for Roberts in my eyes would be a steal. Second tier players? Pie was and still is one of top prospects in the Cubs organization (In 2007 AAA- Pie hit 362avg/410obp/563slg) He wasn't able to make the adjustments with the Cubs, but look for him to have a breakout year in 08. And Gallagher (In 2007 AA- 7-2 3.39 ERA and AAA 3-1 2.66 ERA). Gallagher is projected to be a middle of the rotation starter.

Both of these players who are major league ready for a declining Roberts who's best year was probably back in 2005 (314 avg/ 387 obp / 518 slg).

I do agree that Roberts is a proven major league ballplayer that will add a new dimension to the Cubs lineup. I think this deal is a wash. Chicago would get the leadoff hitter they covet, and Baltimore will establish depth within the orginization.

I also think you guys would like Cedeno and/or Eric Patterson. Both I think will be good major league middle infielders.

The way this is all going, you can count me out for coming out to root for the O's. This stuff with the O's is getting absolutely ridiculous. Someone call me when Angelos is gone, then I might start rooting for the O's again. In the mean time, I will be spending my money on watching the independent league So. Md. BlueCrabs, hey you all might even recognize the owner, some guy named Brooks Robinson!!! You think he knows a little about baseball!!!!

In the last 2 days we have had all kinds of news stories and posts about how stupid meddling Peter Angelos killed yet another deal and how he just can't keep his nose out of baseball business that is best left to the "experts."

Then we find out the hold up is not that PA killed anything nor is it that PA was mad at Jones for leaking the deal nor was it that PA thought he could sign Bedard to an extension.

In fact, it was a legitimate question about a health related matter that held up the deal (and for those who think a degenerative hip condition is no big deal - even though this is not the issue - look it up on WebMD...).

Curious.

I am really upset to be defending Angelos, but if the O's push this deal through before they investigate Jones' possible health issue and come August he tearfully announces his retirement from baseball, how will that look? Talk about embarrassing... Every single one of the people screaming about a meddling owner today will be screaming that PA should have stepped in and stopped the deal in January.

I actually began looking at these trades expecting to see PA bumbling but, sad to say, the evidence seems to point in a different direction.

We have 'proof" that PA blocked 4 deals. (And 4 trades blocked hardly seem like a significant number, but I could not find proof of any others….). Meanwhile, after blocking the Bonilla and Wells deals the O's went on to win the wildcard and play in the ALCS and the guys the O's would have got did not go on to stellar careers...

The Roberts to Atlanta deal was ridiculous and if you are going to slam him for blocking that you know nothing about baseball.

Meanwhile, every one laughed at PA for voiding the Sele contract based on his x-rays in 2000. But Sele did go on the DL with a torn muscle in that shoulder in 2002 and has not been the same pitcher since. Coincidence? Or did Angelos get some good advice and make an acceptable decision?

The only deal that really looked good for the O's was Rolen from the Phils. Can anyone think of any others?

I think the guy's ego has overwhelmed the franchise and driven it into a shadow of its former self. He has made some really bad decisions that were devastating. If I met him on the street I would cross to the other side. But whether you like it or not, his record at blocking trades is not what it is represented to be. Instead, it seems to be working in his favor.

It is too bad this is not the end of his ivolvement with the team.

My bet is that this deal is finished by the end of the week and Angelos signs off on it without reservation.

call me in april, and as long as this team looks drastically different than the one the lost 30-3, I'll call this off-season a success.

Billy Rowell? I guess they couldn't lock up a deal with Nick? Money is tight in corporate america.

Both deals--Bedard for Jones, Sherrill, Tillman, Butler and Mickolio and Roberts for Pie and Gallagher seem fair and are deals the re-building O's should do. I would probably rather have Triunfel than Butler and Mickolio, but the deals are fair. Trades don't get made unless both sides think they are getting what they need. No one really gets fleeced, notwithstanding the perceptions of some fans. We didn't get fleeced in the Glenn Davis trade. It was a fair deal that most people were ecstatic about at the time. Guys get hurt; some prospects become stars, others don't. Angelos hasn't killed either deal yet; and, even if either or both don't happen, that doesn't mean he did. The only reason people are frustrated is because of all the internet buzz and the speculation by the ubiquitous media types who are not otherwise assigned to cover the Super Bowl. Z is for ZZZZZZZ. Relax folks, this will get resolved one way or the other soon.

Tom D, Great post. I agree completely.
I don't like defending Angelos either, but he really does get a bad rap...in terms of blocking trades that is. I always point to the Roberts deal too. There is no way they should have made that trade. Wasn't there one involving A.J. Burnett and Mike Lowell when they were in Florida? I can't remember who the Orioles were offering. That is the only one I can think of that in hindsight may have worked out. Burnett has proved to be an injury liability though.

Can you blame Angelos for being hesitant to sign players with any kind of health issue? Do you remember what happened with Albert Belle? Angelos had to continue to pay part of Belle's $65 million contract, 3 years after Belle retired with a degenerative hip.

There isn't even any proof that it is Angelos holding up the trade. People will just keep blasting him because that's what the media always brings up. If you're going to blast him, at least know your history.

I propose a rule. If you complain about Angelos blocking trades, you have to also include a list of 2 trades that he blocked that ended up hurting the Orioles. If you can't do it, then stop saying it.

KAVAKY - Markakis was already in an Under Armour commercial. I posted the link earlier this morning. I just saw it today.

It might be the same one for the Super Bowl, just an extended version.

After reading through all of these posts, I can't help but wonder what the hell everyone is thinking. Look, I understand that the Orioles are not a very good team. Most people are not ready to accept a rebuilding process. Many, many bad moves have been made during these last 10 years. The probably still affect the team today. Everyone is very quick to criticize every little move that the Orioles make. That is understandable considering “most” moves the O’s have made have not worked out. But you have to look at from the Orioles’ prospective.

The question surrounding this entire Bedard situation is as follows. Is Bedard going to sign long-term with the Orioles? I’m sure Angelos and McPhail would not want anything other than for Bedard to sign long term. From what I have been reading, Bedard has not expressed interest in signing long term and actually preferred a one year deal. Usually, when a player asks for a one year deal, it only means one thing. They want to move somewhere else. As much as I love the guy and how much he brings to the table, I agree that you have to move him.

Now, everyone is up and arms with the uncertainty of the deal and thinking Angelos is intervening. You are going to listen to the media who is quoting a “high ranking major league source?” You do not know what is going on behind closed doors. Maybe talks with Bedard about a long term deal progressed and the O’s pulled the deal off the table temporarily. As much as I hate Angelos, I think he made a good deal in blocking the Roberts to Atlanta trade.

This whole situation is very much like the Johan Santana deal. The Twins could not afford to sign him to an extension for what he was asking. So they traded him and received something in return rather than let him walk away to free agency. Would you rather let Bedard walk after the 2009 season, or get something in return? Why do it now? Because his value is very high right now. Next season, he could tear his rotator cuff and then the Orioles are screwed.

To the cynics, the point of this story is, do not jump the gun saying that you are fed up with the Orioles and aren’t showing up anymore. How do you think that is going to help? You are going to get pissed at the Orioles because they are not bringing in good players, but then you aren’t going to show up to games and make it even harder to afford good players? I still have a good time at the ballpark even when they are in last place and losing 10-0. And don’t get me wrong, I consider myself one of the biggest Oriole fans out there. There are times I want to throw something across the room when they are losing or blow a late inning lead. But I still hang in there and stay supportive. I believe that Andy McPhail will do what is right based on his track record. After all, he is the GM, NOT YOU!

I know we're all on pins and needles for something – anything – to happen with Bedard and Roberts, but I'm okay with MacPhail playing these potential deals out. Some deals happen fast, like the Tigers-Marlins blockbuster. But look how long the Twins kept Santana on the market.

Speaking of Santana, now that he's done, I wouldn't doubt whether the market for Bedard has increased. Would, for example, the Braves and/or Phillies also now be interested? And as much as I hate to say it, would the Red Sox and/or Yankees be interested, now that Bedard looms as the only front-line pitcher currently available? My point is that deals involving players like Bedard are of such huge importance to their team's long-term future that teams owe it to themselves and their fans to explore every single option and not just to jump simply to make a deal.

We've seen with the Tigers-Marlins, Haren and now Santana deals that the price for these top-line players is high but variable – consensus is that the A's (with a smart, veteran GM) got enough for Haren but that the Twins (who also have a new GM making his first major deal) might not have gotten enough for Santana. These potential deals for Bedard and Roberts will go a long way to determining whether the Birds get better sooner, later or not at all, so if MacPhail needs a little more time to make sure he's doing the right thing, that's fine with me.

Fairweather fans GO AWAY! STAY AWAY!! Do not COME BACK!

All of you giving up at actual rebuilding efforts need to find a new city to love. If you where a real fan, and supported the O's for the last 10 years of losing, what are a few more years waiting. Was ten the Magic number?

What sould we do? Trade Gibbons, Mora and Huff for Santana?

Drastic change much happen. Real fans will wait to see what happens.

All you jumpers, go ahead and jump will will not miss you.

All you haters must care or would be wasting your time posting here?

Be a fan or get out!!!

John Palmer... they dropped out of that race back in Oct.

Yes Andrew, you quoted me correctly. I am glad you know how to cut & paste. In school you will take a course, hopefully, called economics. Pay particular attention to the supply & demand part of the course & then get back to me.
To answer your question, yes I watch baseball, I even still play it.

Tom D, we have NO idea why the deal was held up, the hip rumor is pure conjecture too at this pt. just like all the other reasons you pointed out. However, based on the past 10+ yrs of history, some are more likely than others. I'd put the hip rumor near the bottom.
Sele was offered a 2 , maybe a 3 yr deal I believe, they would have gotten good use out of him before he went south.
You & Jeff should not cry for potter on the Belle contract, or give him pts there. He forced that one down Wren's throat & he had insurance to recoup the salary (his most important concern I bet) when Belle was hurt & when he "retired". Remember also, they had to keep Belle on the 40 man roster an extra year so potter could get his d@mn money from Lloyds. That didn't help with depth much.

Roberts for Pie and Gallagher.... Pie OK, & he may or may not be another Patterson, it's a crap shoot. The O's have a legion of Gallagher's on several levels already. I think they should try to get someone else, preferably a position player. I say no to these 2 for Roberts.

One thing the O's need to remember while dealing Bedard is that the Twins received the best offer for Santana in December (Hughes & Cabrera). But they turned it down and it was taken off the table. They then got stuck with the Mets' offer that wasnt nearly as good. So if we try to get too cute, we may end up with a worse package.

Well said Doug!

Mark C.,
Loved the ideas on the new Language... maybe we can call it "OriolesSpeak"

Do you think Bedard loved giving this quote from espn.com:

Bedard also did not comment on the continuing negotiations. "I can't say anything right now," Bedard said Monday night to the Ottawa Citizen. Previous rumors had him headed to the Toronto Blue Jays. "Sorry, I just can't [say anything]."

I'm sure he wasn't really sorry to say "no comment" to a bunch of reporters.

Isn't it nice to be talking "trades" instead of "steroids"!

Any verification to what MLB.com is reporting in their hot stove report to sources saying that the talks have picked up speed again about Bedard?

Dave M - couldn't agree more.

Mike the Mets deal won't be able to be judged for a few years at best.

"Sucks"

As someone previously posted, I think it would be a blast to watch team of young, hungry players fight for their baseball lives! Who wants to watch a fat and happy Huff "start slow" (if you can call not hitting till mid august a slow start.)? I am against trading our stars "just to trade" but the last thing I want to see is Jay Payton as the starting CF. He is a joke!

Matt- You are my new best friend. Thanks for sticking with the O's. I think you and I are the only ones left. I'll be there Opening Day, as well as pretty much every Friday and Saturday Night Home Game and some random Sunday games with my niece. Anyone else plan on attending any games or have you all jumped ship?

I have full faith in McPhail. I think he's just not getting what he wants. Why trade our #1 starter and our Golden 2B and lead off hitter, just so we can say we made big moves in the offseason? Kind of stupid to me.

We already dumped our Juiced Up Dead Weight and got five players in return! Compare that to previous off-season moves and I say we are doing much better.

I don't know about you all but I'm flipping excited for March!

ST PATTY'S DAY, a Trip to Ireland, and BASEBALL SEASON STARTS! Sounds like a damn good month if you ask me.

GO O's!

Enter Y for YEAAAA BABY!

FYI, the Twins' situation was somewhat worse than the Orioles'. Santana has a no-trade clause, and in only under contract for one year, while Bedard is under contract for two. That is why they were unable to land the Mets' top guy, and arguably were forced into a crappy deal. The Orioles are reportedly offered Adam Jones, who alone is arguably worth Bedard after you consider Bedard's projected salary going forward. Tillman is a monster pitching prospect, but is several years away. Those two alone make this a plus for the Orioles. Could they do better if they were willing to trade Bedard to the Yanks or Sox? Maybe. Otherwise, make the fricking deal already!

How soon we forget, Roch. Kevin Millar made an appearance this past post season.

Is Peter still the problem? Is Andy really calling the shots? Will my 16 year old son ever see the O's in the playoffs in his lifetime?

Doug - There is more than 1 way to skin a cat and more than 1 way to rebuild a team.

You seem to think there is only 1 way. That is your opinion. I just don't share it. To question my level of support or love for the team because I do not agree with you is short sighted and illogical.

Just out of curiosity, other than the Marlins and the 2007 D'Backs, can you specify a team that "rebuilt" by trading vets on the level of a Bedard and Roberts and did not need at least another 10 years to compete? (

And an important qualifier - if the team was already loaded and traded 2 stars it does not count. The O's have 3 players almost universally accepted by baseball experts as among the best at their position and we are taking about trading 2 of them. That us a significant turn over. No matter how good Tillman or Gallagher may be in 6 years, neither guy is going to have the impact on the team from 2008 - 2011 that Bedard will. Same for Jones, Pie, etc. and Roberts.

Especially if you take the same team as it is now and add 1 impact player and a few role players of higher quality than we are used to seeing in black and orange and get positive results immediately.

I am not saying you are wrong, I am just remarking on what I have witnessed over the years.

"So if we try to get too cute, we may end up with a worse package." - Mike

It's not about being cute. It's about getting the best possible deal for a known commodity. Bids will only go up...if not...I guess we're stuck with the best LP in the AL.

Roch, you’re doing a great job with the Bedard deal/non-deal stuff. I’m mostly trying to stay out of the fray here with just the occasional comment. You’re probably getting record numbers of hits judging by the number of comments. Unfortunately, it seems, when you get large numbers of comments, the dialogue here tends to go south and people start attacking one another.

The whole situation has been fairly bizarre and I have a strange feeling that it’s all heading toward no deal. I think a lot of things could be smoothed out if we were getting more information out of the warehouse. I realize a lot of this stuff deals with privacy issues, both personal and those associated with doing business, but you have to wonder if anyone in the organization cares about damage control with the fans. Bedard granting an interview before the trade stuff surfaces basically saying, pay me or trade me? Jones telling Venezuelan media he’s been traded and is heading to Baltimore, only he’s not? Rumors of a degenerative hip? Angelos in the hospital, dealing with a personal matter, dealing with other business? What’s left to add to this? A bag of money and a dead body?

I realize the club can conduct business however it wants and doesn’t owe us any explanation. But if they don’t give us any information and leave us guessing, we’re just going to fill in the blanks with what’s happened in the past. This does nothing to re-sell this team to us.

Brian - "...No odea why the deal was held up..."? Check this out, it may look familiar:
http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/roch/blog/2008/01/quick_comment_on_jones.html

Sele was offered 4 years:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0DE2DC103BF93BA35752C0A9669C8B63
This was in January 2000. He was hurt in 2002. By my estimation, that would have only been 1/2 way through a guaranteed contract.

After the Belle payoff insurance companies stopped insuring baseball contracts - or at least stopped insuring top dollar. And to collect, the player has to be unable to play during the life of the contract not just a shadow ofd their former self.

Besides, since may have you missed it, I went into detail about Belle. Whether PA got his money back is irrelevant. Belle was disruptive and hurt the team way more than a roster spot or a financial hit and it was all PA's doing.

If all the negative energy you spend hating PA makes you happy I guess you are entitled. I take exception, however, when you insult or attack other people because they don't join your all out effort to find reasons to slam him or ask you to tone it down.

Peter A has made a fortune dealing with health issues [ asbestoes. ] He is the worlds # 1 expert on health issues. He got burned for 1.75 mill. with the X Hernandez deal. Do you think he would ever let that happen again ? Give him a break. He just wants to make sure [ health wise ] that things are 100%. If you lost almost 2 mill. on a sore arm pitcher, wouldn't you make sure ? Thought so.

Perfectly said, CRB, especially that last sentence. It's all about building value and re-selling the product to the consumer/customer to keep them coming back for more, and the warehouse does a terrible job of that, so how do they expect us to be happy?

It's very similar to the way my business is run, and I'm sure some of you out there have businesses set in the same structure. Once I sign you up for a set of services, I build value into it as much as I can so when that yearly contract is up, you stay on for another year, and so on. If you had questions for me and I gave you a bunch of "I don't know" answers, you would lose patience with me quickly and find someone who will give you answers.

The FO will not always be able to answer everyone's questions, true. But they have completely kept us in the dark, MacPhail acting at times like he wouldn't know Bill Bavasi if he fell over him.

With you Roch, I know that you can only say so much, even if you know more, and I respect that, especially having been a writer for a smaller paper a few years back. I would never ask you to put your job on the line to give us some tidbits, losing you would be the equivalent of the Birds moving to another city.

But Mr. MacPhail, our patience is wearing thin. I will stick it out and always be a loyal fan because I love the game of baseball and the Orioles have always been my home team and always will be. I just wish we could get a sense either way where we are moving, even if it is in the wrong direction. That's not a lot to ask.

I heard a viscious rumor that the Roberts-to-the-Cubs trade hit a snag because one of the Cubs' prospects has a degenerative hip condition.

Jeff Mc - Thanks for the support.

The AJ Burnett trade never got to the approval stage. Florida was asking for Bedard, Lowen, Penn and a position player. I think they got it down to Penn, Steve Kline, Bigbie and Julio but the O's were reluctant to take on Lowell.

PA's problem has been the trades he didn't block - BJ to Atlanta, Hairston, Fontenot to Chi for Sammy, etc. and the signings like Belle and not signing BJ Ryan and Mussina before their walk year and when the $$ were not as high (add Bedard and Roberts to this list, too!)

And the arrogance....
It is important to note that St Louis, Detroit and another team passed on this deal for the same reason. Boston finally agreed to take Lowell because the attached pitcher was Beckett not Burnett.

I do not believe PA killed this one. Roch, do you have any different info?

I have been quiet lately, it's very loud in here, without that much being discussed.

Roch, keep up the great work. Insightful comments, thoughtful (key) speculations, and frequent updates have made this whole process easier to handle. Sounds like much ado about nothing.

Still sounds like the deal will end up happening, according to most journalists in Baltimore, Seattle, and ESPN/Fox/CBS.

If Jones is on the team I will be at almost every game next year. The chance to see him or Markakis rip a double, throw a runner out, make a diving catch, or drop a bomb is just too enticing. Who cares if they lose, if the rebuilding has actually begun?

This is a bit lengthy, but a lot of you may enjoy this article:

http://www.citypaper.com/news/story.asp?id=3575

It was written August 16, 2000, about our beloved owner and his plans for downtown Baltimore and the Orioles, among other things.

It would be nice to see what this writer would publish as a 7 and a half years later follow up.

Please read, I think you all will enjoy, and find out some things you didn't already know.

I think McPhail is behind this delay and have faith he will get the job done and get the best we can out of a deal. Remember how frustrated we were with him holding out on Wieters? McPhail was right when we all thought he was wrong.

Jennifer, I have not given up on the O's either!

Don't intend to.

I do not share your confidence in MacPhail but I agree that, compared to previous years, the return for Miggy was better.

The players we got are not destined to greatness like everyone seems to think, but it is better than the past might have seen.

sounds like paul bako could end up with the pirates. is this the same you've heard, or is this just random speculation??

u is for underdog.....

Check out the message on the countdown clock on the righthand side:
http://prospectinsider.com/2008/01/27/jones-bedard-deal-99-percent-done/

MLB.com is also reporting that the O's and M's are close to sealing the deal.

Quickly, I want to say that, IF we are planning on trading Roberts as well, then in my opinion, we must try to get Triunfel from the M's in this deal. We've been spoiled with an outstanding middle infield for much of the recent past (Cal & Miggy, Alomar & Roberts) so we've perhaps forgotten how difficult those spots are to fill with solid offensive players. Most teams are consigned to sacrificing solid offensive production in return for solid defense up the middle.

The Bottom Line, I think, is that we must make every effort to get Triunfel also. In order to help make this happen, we'll possibly need to package Payton or Scott as well (preferably Payton). The M's would be pleased because they can fill Jones' vacancy with either one. Then we could package Roberts to the cubs and pick up some more prospects (Pie, Gallager, Marshall?) and feel better that we have a more solidly stocked batch of middle infield prospects moving through the system to replace the gaping hole left by two of the game's best: Miggy and BRob.

Now that would qualify as a complete overhaul. But it ain't rebuilding if you try to do it halfway...

Y is for Y-Not? (memories of '89)

And while you are at it, check out the side bar comments: http://www.prospectinsider.com/

I don't have my glasses on - does it say Angelos is OK with the deal????????

Imagine that....

Who else has cut themselves or induced themselves to vomit over this fiasco? Ok I haven't but I am still just tired of the back and forth. Roch is right, we are going nowhere with Bedard, so we might as well just see if we can land the next Torii Hunter and our next closer for the canadian lefty.

And why have we not pushed to sign Bartolo Colon to an incentive-laden deal Roch? He is a guy who has been dominant in the past, and is low risk assuming he is not commanding a hefty signing bonus etc.

I think we should just trade Bedard because knowing the Orioles' luck these past 10 seasons, he will go 5-15 before season ending surgery to repair a torn oblique!

http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/mariners/2008/01/bedardjones_update.html

An update by Jason Churchill at ProspectInsider.com today:

Four-for-one, as reported Monday, consummated Thursday or Friday.

It seems that those with each club that jumped the gun did so because both teams knew that Seattle wasn't going to improve their offer at that point, and both teams learned that Baltimore believed that offer met their demands.

That wasn't going to stop Andy McPhail from trying to get more, and it wasn't going to change the fact that Peter Aneglos did have to sign off on the deal.

But the same Orioles rep that gave me the trade offer details has told me Angelos has told McPhail he's fine with the trade as long as extending Erik Bedard is not a realistic option at this point.

McPhail has apparently informed Angelos that extending Bedard is not the best route to putting a contending team on the field sooner than later, at least in his opinion.

Laughingstock meddles and sucks. :)
Love the efficiency. thanks mark c!

TomD--nice points. If we trade our top talent for prospects we may build a young talent base that is equivalent to that of several other teams. Would we even be top 5? top 10? Then we still have to compete against teams who have current major league stars AND good farm systems. I know we have to stop living in the past, but it is amazing how run-down this organization has become.

My problem with dealing Bedard is that we probably could not accumulate enough quality prospects to get a guy like him in 3 years when we are respectable, but I understand the catch-22 and will let MacPhail make the choice (not trading or not extending is not an option).

i would be excited about jones but don't understand sherril (not because he isn't great--he is very, very good for those who did not stay up late last season). we must commit to a youth movement and unless you can guarantee that sherril is ready for a closer position, he doesn't fit. i guess that means he is the closer.

i say sherril is more valuable to the M's and we suck it up and try to make a play for another quality prospect. i like the idea of 3 higher rated prospects than 4 with the fourth being a lesser value. anyway, hope to hear more from you Roch! thanks for keeping your ear to the RR tracks for us!

CRB: "What's left to add to this? A bag of money and a dead body?"

Funny stuff!

I'd also like to know why the Roberts trade hinges on the Bedard trade getting done. I suppose though doing two diff. things at once could get a little dicey for this front office to handle- especially when every last detail has to be run by an old decrepit tyrant.

I like what I hear about getting Pie in the Roberts trade, and would love to see him and Jones battling it out for the CF job this Spring (assuming Scott is clogging left) I imagine one of the two will turn out to be pretty good.

Pie also seems like he could become the lead-off hitter were gonna need to replace Roberts with his production falling somewhere in between that of Juan Pierre and Alfonso Soriano- but probably closer to Pierre- atleast for his first couple seasons.

However like the above blogger said why do we need Gallagher? We do have pitchers of his capability on every level of the minors however we dont have any second baseman and the Cubs do. Trade us one of them in additon to Pie. No Fahey!

Tom D... I do enjoy your posts, however, I must take exception with your premise that Brian Roberts is a "star" or is universally accepted by baseball experts as among the best at his position! I guess you forgot about Chase Utley! I do feel that he is a huge fan favorite and one of the best lefthanded hitting 2nd basemen with exceptional speed. BTW...I think Brandon Phillips is a better player as well.

TomD,

I do not remember reading in your blogs that you are quiting as a Fan. (well at least no in this one, the rest are to blurry in my mind to quote from)

You are a Fan, that has lots of opinions, that is good, weather I agree or not with the actual statements.

Your Passion seems to be for the O's .

My complaint is for all the "If they do not sign Weiters I quit as a Fan" , or the "Sign Andrew Jones or I am Done"......those type statements are not from real fans.

Thats all.

This blog about Super Bowl ads mentions your post about the Under Armour commercial. Coool!!!

http://superbowlcommercials.blogspot.com/2008/01/under-armours-prototype-cross-trainer.html

Yo Doug, I am a fan, call me what you want, but we haven't had a winner since 1997. We haven't even sniffed the playoffs since then. And look at what has happened since, we have gotten rid of or run off some of the best baseball people out there that would of if let do their jobs, kept this team a contender. Then Angelos puts people in place that run the team in the ground. My point is that I am not wasting my money to come watch a bad team anymore. I will watch on tv but I am not putting the money out to drive 2+ hours to watch what the O's management is putting on the field, and if the trades go through it will be nothing more than a glorified Triple A team. Sorry that is just the way I see it.