Cincy really needs Bedard!

We are doomed.

Looking at our starting 5 is the least of our worries..... One day soon the organization will realize that position players that doesn't have mediocre attatched to their names mean just as much as pitching. Playing the likes of Huff, Payton, Millar, Gibbons and a bench that makes Mendoza look like a triple crown winner gives new meaning to the word ridiculous.

Man I hope Penn gets his act together and gets the 5 spot from Olson. Garrett just looks to me to be a 4-5 guy in the national league and not someone that should be having almost half his starts against the AL East.

I hope G Olson isn't the 5th starter. With the offense the O's will throw out there, plus no closer, I feel for those other 4 guys.

As crazy as it sounds, I like the way our rotation stacks up to just about anyone's -- albeit with major reservations. Yet in looking at every rotation, there are reservations (e.g., Boston: Schilling, Lester and Matsusaka; Detroit: Rodgers and Willis; Yankees: the entire rotation). As for us, we already know Cabrera is an enigma (to the extent that we've figured him out, it's that we know he'll suck), but I think the verdict is still very much out on Loewen and Guthrie, and how they'll stack up over a full season. As for Olson, I'm uncomfortable with him at number 5 (though I know why he was put there) and I can only hope that Hayden Penn shows up truly ready to compete at the Big League level for the first time in his life.

As a final note, a lot of responsibility rests on the shoulders of Kranitz to make sure he gets the most out of the potential that each of these guys has. Here's to hoping the response from the players is different than it was with Leo.

Our top four pitching isn't horrible, i'd like to see someone step up and grab the five spot in spring training.

The NL WEST and NL CENTRAL looks like the most intriguing and competitive divisions in baseball, for different reasons. The NL WEST looks like a division of very strong rotations where each team has at least 2 strong arms at the top with varying mixes of promise at the lower ends. The NL CENTRAL looks like its bizarro universe where having just one legit arm makes you a contender. Most of those rotations are average or below average in the AL EAST or AL. The best of that bunch might be the Cubs but it's really an average or above-average overall rotation.

If Cincy takes Bedard I think it makes their rotation the top one in the division because the Cubs' Zambrano-Lilly 1-2 punch is second fiddle to Bedard-Harang. Also, if the Dodgers were to take Bedard, it makes them stronger but not necessarily the outright best rotation in the division, simply because of the overall pitching strength of that whole class. Though it does put them up there. But even right now, they have a pretty strong one with some potential for more. As far as Seattle, they are thinking strictly in terms of matching up with the Angels' rich stock of arms, of which nealy all of them have the chance to be a Lackey/Escobar-ish level of arm. Bedard would help them but it doesn't absolutely answer all the questions since you just don't know how much Felix will develop this year.

All in all, it sort of feels like the main candidates for a Bedard trade are starting to think they are competitive "just enough" and crossing their fingers with what they already have. The ones that would benefit the most from Bedard in my opinion is Cincinati. It puts them on top clearly.

By "doomed" do you mean it in a good way or a bad way?

I'm sure by "rebuilding", McPhail's strategy wasn't to dump our best hitter and sign a light hitting backup catcher . .. was it?

Man are the O's in trouble.
What happens if Bedard does get traded?
We'd have Guthrie as our No. 1 guy?

I'd say 110 losses is definitely in reach this year.

Jeff. Who cares if Cincy 'needs' Bedard? Is that what you think the O's have become-a feeder to fill other teams holes? Besides, looking at the Reds lineup they need a lot more than Bedard.

Jim Leyritz is a moron.

To all the pessimists...be cool. Opening Day isn't for over 3 months and there is plenty of time to rectify roster shortfalls. If the roster Roch talked about is the one that runs out on the red carpet on ODay...I'd be shocked. Have patience....

I'd figure the guy we got in the Houston trade, the supposed "jewel" of the Tejada trade would be the front runner for the 5 spot. I cant remember his name, someone help me out here, I'm too lazy haha. If I were trembley I wouldn't necessarily hand Cabrera the 4th spot in the rotation either, make him earn it. Hope the new pitching coach can make him realize his potential.

Is Dempster going to be the Cubs 5th starter? What about Sean Marshall?

Roch, what about the O's tring to get Mike Cameron? I know he has the suspension for 25 games, but he has relatives in Northern Virginia and has wanted to play for the O's for several years now. He could be signed for a cheaper than normal price because of his suspension and could really help the middle of the line up.

Redman deserves a crack at Center field: Payton does not: the rest is the facts,folks.
this team will need solid pitching to survive: too high an expectation for 162 ballgames. Upper level management will have to exercise some better 2008 strategy besides raising ticket prices.
Bonds for a season would be novel!
Cabrera as a closer against the Redsox and Yankees would raise some anxiety!
Maybe we ought to ask the ballplayers what they need to win? They are the pointy end of the spear and have live thru the season.
Over to you Mr. McPhail!!

I think the Angels have a great rotation . They were smart to get Jon Garland from the stupid white sox the white sox were so stupid to give him up . I can not believe a GM would give up a starter like Jon Garland and get nothing in return thats Kenny Williams for you he is the worst GM in the world . I hope Jon Garland will make him real sorry. Go Angels!!!!!!!

I guess no one attends these college bowl games. ESPN seems to be trying at all costs to avoid showing any shots of the stadium. Is it safe to say its at least 50% empty?
I still think a team shouldn't be allowed to be in a bowl game unless they have 2 more wins than losses. 6-6 makes a bowl game?
At least they started with a nice drive.

Rich

Dimitrios--that does sound crazy. That rotation has the potential to be okay. With an injury to Bedard it is laughable. The difference is that the other teams you mentioned can withstand an injury (which will happen). Don't pin this season on Kranitz--that's just not fair. He is responsible for seeing that each pitcher improves throughout the year, something that Leo was not very successful at doing. I want to see pitchers battle every at bat and learn to use pitches (that includes Cabrera!). I think he will be far better than Leo with the young guys, but that's his selling point isn't it? We've had a lot of guys who were supposedly good at doing a lot of things over the years, but in a bad organization they seem to lose their magic touch. Let's just hope everyone does their job in '08 and we take our 95 losses like men.

I'd only add that perhaps the most impressive rotation, heading in, belongs to the Angels. Talent, experience, depth.

I actually feel a lot better after looking at this list. The Yankees and Red Sox have decent 1-3 guys, but have major question marks around their 4th and 5th starters. If Loewen can come back to form, then the O's will have a solid 1-3 in the rotation. Give Olson some time and he will develop nicely. He was the Ace at Norfolk and given a chance to pitch in games when the team is not 30 games under 500, he might actually have some support around him.

JJ - Patton is the guy we got from Houston and yes he may be more ready than Olson.

I was looking these rotations over... watch out for LA & Schmidt. He was hurt last year , but if he is back & healthy, that is a HUGE 5th starter to have. I also highly recommend him as a sleeper pick in fantasy drafts to those playing. You could get a steal there late in your draft. Most will write him off, many will forget about him. If you draft mid ST, before ESPN starts touting his ST starts, he will go very late.
Cincy really does need Bedard, if they plan to win this year. #'s 4 & 5 don't impress me. Arroyo is iffy too.

G. Brown, N Va is fast becoming Nats territory, not because of geography, but because potter is an idiot & driving those fans away. So maybe the Nats will $ign Cameron so he can be close to his relatives.

I must admit that I am starting to become intrigued by the Nats too. They do seem to have a plan & make moves. I was offered my choice of opening day tix to the Nats or O's as a Xmas gift, my choice. To be honest, I am not sure which to pick. That will be the first game in that new stadium. That game might be exciting to be a part of too. The O's screwing around & lack of desire to have a decent team to root for don't help. Now let me pt out, I have never gone to opening day at the Yawn either. I always waited for better & cheaper good seats the next game or the 3rd one. Factored in is the real concern that an O's opening day tix will be much easier to get than the Nats too. What does that say gang? What does it say that a lifelong diehard O's fan is even having to think this over? potter & his misfit, meddling, crowd of offspring in the FO have driven even a diehard to the brink of switching allegience. They will one day soon blame the Nats being in DC for their 10s of thousands of empty seats at the Yawn, but that won't be the reason, they only have to look in the mirror.....

Roch: Why muck around with Marisa Miller and I-pod? Just go directly to persiankitty.com or asianthumbs.org or wild-cherries.com. Just to name three. You might even find Melissa Midwest. Cheers.

Someone mentioned this in passing, but I think the Yankees and Red Sox don't necessarily have the best rotations. Beckett is clearly excellent, but Schilling and Wakefield are both 41. I think the age will have more of an effect on Schilling too since Wakefield is a knuckleballer. Mussina and Pettite are quite old as well, to the point where they're not going to be getting better with age and are likely going to decline even more than they have already.

OK, one last time. It's called rebuilding for a reason. MacPhail did not put the O's in this position. Angelos and his dream team did that!
A lot of folks here seem to think that adding mediocre free agents will rebuild this team. My question? How? We've already tried that, and can't even crack .500 adding Tejada, Javy, & Palmiero. Without paying attention to the farm system, this is what happens when you are a mediocre team at best. The top free agents have no interest in the O's, because after they pick up their payday, most pretty much want that ring. Most savvy veterans know that Baltimore has no foundation on which to build. You do that through sound drafting, coaching, and then adding a missing component through free agency.
Let's give MacPhail a chance. I believe he knows a thing or two about the game. More than the rest of us do. I still say there will be some moves before opening day. I'm on record as saying I like the Tejada trade. As much as I liked Miggy, where are not in position to go to the playoffs and in my opinion are wasting his talent.
Settle down everyone. We all knew 2008 was going to be painful. If we have another good draft next summer, cast off some dead weight at the trade deadline, then the team starts positioning it's self for the future. One off season is not going to put us on track. And if one of the teams that were interested in Bedard looses a pitcher around ST time, we might just see that blockbuster deal yet. I give MacPhail kudos for not just making a trade for the sake of making a trade. He has few trading chips, and needs to make sure he gets some value in return. Patience people!!!

TX O's Fan,

I hate to be a pessimist, but patience is the one thing just about every O's fan has run out of. Also in case you haven't forgotten we were patient before McPhail came to the organization and that didn't do us a whole lot of good. The aggressive teams i.e. the Tigers, the Marlins, The Diamondbacks, the Athletics, stay exciting and are building good teams. (the marlins are an exception, but they have a lot of talent on their team for a payroll so low)

Also while McPhail has brought a professionalism to the O's management I haven't seen since Syd Thrift, you are forgetting that before the O's McPhail spent 10 years with the Cubs and only got them to two playoffs berths. Granted if we had two playoffs berths in the past 10 years I'd change my name to Jay Gibbons, but the NL central isn't exactly the AL East either.

McPhail has definetly taken this organization in a step in a direction, but I don't know if its for sure the right one, exspecially if the Tejada trade is the only one he makes all offseason. I refuse to pay for a ticket next season based on our featured lineup, and this is coming from a guy who paid to watch Travis Driskill start when Tony Batista was our best hitter. . .

Dude, Marisa Miller is crazy hot....oh my god

Jon,

I've been an O's fan since 65, seen lots of good times and recently plenty of bad times. Being a fan of this franchise for over 40 years certainly doesn't make me an expert, and trust me Angelos has tested my patience to the end, and then some! My point is that we can not expect to fix this team in 1 off season. Truth be told, I'm not sure two good off seasons put us in the playoffs.

One thing I think a lot of folks on this blog really underestimated was the lack of a solid foundation for the team. That being our lifeline, the minors. During the Syd Thrift era, as some foundly point out, teaching and coaching was terribly inconsistent at all levels. In other words our farm system and those running it were a mess. Realistically all we have produced in the last 10 years is: John Maine, Brian Roberts, Bedard, & now Markakis. That's pathetic!

Let's take your example of the Tigers, they were not built over night as some think. GM Dave Dombrowski just completed his fifth season, and during his tenure he drafted/signed plenty of power arms as well as some blue chip everyday prospects (Cameron Maybin). He hired Leyland to work with the young kids, as well as for his ability to work with vets. The talent coming out of the tigers farm system allowed them to trade for Cabrera & Willis, as well as Shefffield (last year).

My point in all this is that we have to fix our farm system first and foremost. That can't be done in one off season. I think our last couple of drafts have been good, as does Baseball America, however, while we have some upcoming talent, it still at the lower levels of the system, and depth is still a major issue. I'm tired of all the weak free agent signings to fill the holes our farm system can't. That's no way to run an organization. Free agent signings should be someone to either complement what you already have, or to add the final piece to a team that is ready to challenge.

Lastly, as of right now, every VP/GM in baseball knows the predicament that MacPhail is in. He has little to offer in trades, and the few chips he does have, no one is rushing in and offering the farm up! So what else can he do, but strike when the time is right. Many of the proposed trades out there for Bedard, are really crazy. Cincy is not going to give us Jay Bruce. Just as the Dodgers were not going to give us Kemp, Broxton, & Kershaw. These two teams are not looking for reasons to dump their top talent. Bottom line, there is a reason why Baltimore is considered the worst run franchise in MLB. It makes attracting good people very difficult, managers or players. That's why we need to give MacPhail a chance. Despite what folks say, he is a good baseball guy.

Jon--While changing your name to Jay Gibbons, why not go ahead and also change "McPhail" to MacPhail.