Sweet move! I'm glad we are looknig at the farm and building from within.

I hope we don't trade Miguel to the Yankees.

Any rumors about Mark Teixeira? He would look oh so nice in an Orioles uniform in 08 or 09 and beyond.

Trading Mora to Yankees would work if we got something good in return. I don't believe he would hurt us like Miguel would if we traded him.

We need to draft smarter obviously and the direction the team is headed right now is a good one - should have done it 8 years ago.

Roch, any idea what the organizational "beliefs" are going to be? Are we going to emphasize on base percentage, patience at the plate, working the lower outside corner for pitchers, being able to foul off pitches, stealing bases, bunting, being able to sacrifice, bat control, what? I think it's a very, very, very good idea to finally unite the system like back in the Oriole Way days, but it relies on what ideals the O's follow.

Also, any thoughts on asian scouting?

Feeling good so far.

I am happy to see all these changes, and it seems like this is the guy to fill this role. I am just hesitant to see this as anything new. Isn't that what these "roving pitching coaches" etc. were supposed to do? I thought we heard of standardizing the instruction across our teams like 2-3 years ago...and I know he is gone, but I know Mazzone wasn't happy with the way these kids were being taught.

I don't know...I want to be positive and am keeping an open mind, it just is going to be tough this time around.

Oh and also let me just say...I know that Mora has been around and deserves respect, but if he wants to go, don't let the door hit your butt on the way out. With Trembley becoming a fan favorite, I think he is picking a fight with the wrong person...

Graham is a good coach . He was the manager of the Canton Indians when they had Manny Ramirez , Giles, Hernandez, Nagy etc. They were Double A but were moved to Akron.

"Well-well look. I already told you: I deal with the...customers so the engineers don't have to. I have people skills; I am good at dealing with people. Can't you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?"

Roch - any chance Mora actually gets moved in a trade? Today's article maybe hinted at it, but do you feel he's got enough market value to fetch something in return? My feeling at this point is that he's very average - both as a 3B and in terms of what he gets paid relative to other MLB 3B. Giving him up for nothing would be foolish, but he's also not likely to be part of the next good Orioles team.

As always, I want to beleive. My only concern is that this seems like Deja Vu. Seems like only two or three years ago when all of this was going to happen. Everybody learns the same plays, all wear pants up or all with legs down, etc. Hope it comes to pass. Focus seems right.

So what is this story about Melvin Mora thinking about leaving the Orioles?

And what is this story about Miguel Tejada possibly going to the Yankees?

Who the heck would we get in return for both of them?

This is really becoming a bizarre off season. Lidge being traded. Now we're hearing maybe Santana could be traded if he can't be re-signed. And the story goes on and on.

Thank you, Andy MacPhail. This is recognition of what has been--far and away--the Orioles' biggest problem in the last ten years--poor player development.

Speaking of "Grow your Own", I see that Melvin Mora thinks he is one of the best 3B in baseball. Dude must be smoking something. There are at least 3 third basemen in the AL EAST better than him.

Good bye.

Hey Roch,

Did you read the article on Mora? Its time to rid the team of "me" players and start over. How many O's have said they want to "wait and see the direction" the team is going in? Its going down the drain with these selfish, self absorbed players. Trade or release the bunch of them and start over with kids that want to be in the Majors and will put forth the effort to HELP the team win.

e is for expel the whiners

As others have suggested in previous posts, I don’t think the problem with the O’s has necessarily been the total amount they’re spending, it’s the inefficient way they’ve spent it. Obviously, when you’ve spent $90-$95 million for a team that won 69 games and couldn’t field a major league pitching staff by season’s end, you’re doing something severely wrong with the money you’re spending.

When you’re paying $4-$8 million per year for players like Melvin Mora, Aubrey Huff, Jay Payton, Jay Gibbons, and Danys Baez, you’re throwing money away. Way too much money for what they get in return. They should be spending half of what they spent for these guys based on their production; more importantly, they should be getting more production for what they spent.

Of course, the problem has been, the O’s do have money to spend, but they can’t spend on top players who won’t sign here so they spend it on mediocre players like those mentioned. The O’s aren’t going to win with a roster full of young, developed in their own system players. They are going to need quality free agents that supplement what they have (or will have in a couple of years). The problem is, no one good is going to want to come here until this organization shows signs of life.

A couple of big name free agents would do wonders for this team, but the reality is, they aren’t coming here. That’s a hard one for me to accept, but it’s plainly obvious, and that means barring a miracle the team is going to continue to be a fourth place or worse team. Perhaps the O’s could trade for some top players, but they’d have to deplete their farm system to do it, which doesn’t make sense for a team that’s on a run of 10 straight losing seasons. They have to do things now which make acquiring top players a possibility in a few years; acquiring and developing good young players that can not only play on the major league roster and make the team better than it currently is, which would make this team more attractive to free agents, but can be dealt for good veterans when we have a surplus that we can afford to deal.

"Brooks Robinson first started trimming the bill of his batting helmet."

Can someone explain this? Never heard of this before, maybe Im too young?

I had mixed emotions reading the Mora story. I just decided that he is an odd duck & not entirely honest. If he won't play LF so Tejada can move to 3B or Moore can play there, then trade him. He claims he'll move there if the team is being upgraded, well that is the idea with these moves isn't it Mr Mora? They aren't asking you to move there so the team can s#ck....

Speaking of Tejada, I'd rather see him rot here than make his day & trade him to Spankees. Look Soriano was traded from Tex to Wash & he was adamant about not playing the OF. He said he was a 2B, period. It was a walk year for him too. He threatened to quit, sit out, dog it, etc. Well look what happned there. He played OF the first game & now he is still an OFer in Chicago. If Wash can make Soriano play OF ,then the O's can do the same with the Tejada move to 3B. Tell him it isn't open for debate, that's where he is playing.

Gardner-Webb? Is that like Payne Webber?

Great the focus of the team is to be cheap now, claim it's all going into player development, no money for salaries at the ML level. Who are they kidding? This isn't KC, Minn, Oak, etc. , they have a fan base here that would put 3M butts in seats if potter was honest with us & stopped meddling. They have their MASN that they claimed was a huge $$ maker. They have their sweetheart deal with the Nationals & what, $300M from MLB for the location of Wash into their (territory). There is revenue that many small markets can only dream about. I agree, put funds into scouting & player development, but don't BS me that there is nothing left to sign decent players too at the ML level. I don't expect the ARod's or T Hunters's to be signed or want to come here, but salary dumping & bargain basement shopping isn't necessary either.
Getting the instruction coordinated top to bottom throughout the minors shouldn't be that hard & shouldn't cost millions to do. It's called
c o m m u n i c a t i o n!
I would HOPE Baltimore fans are smarter than this.
All I can say is if they start becoming the Spankees & other top teams private farm team like KC was in the late 50's early 60's for the Spanks, then the O's are done. Since they are trying to set this up with brave talk, here is some talk for them.... we should all stop going to the Yawn & drive to Fredneck or Bowie to see games instead to see the magnificent scouting & player development take root for the next 5 years. The farm system teams will have more fans watching than the O's will. I am sorry, but I hate koolaid....

Trying to look at this from McFail's side, any decision is complicated by the current roster.

If the O's don't trade Mora and Tejada and somehow find the where-with-all to acquire the 4 or 5 key players they need to compete, they still have only a short-term fix. Like 1997 turned out to be.

Tejada, R.Hernandez and Huff will be 32, Mora 36, Millar 37 and Roberts 31. Bradford and Walker are already in their mid-30's and Bedard and Guthrie will be 29. Without a flow from AAA, they risk a repeat of 2007 if 2 or more key players break down.

On the other hand, if they ship Tejada and Mora out, get almost ready AAA players in return, develop Snyder, Reimold and Rowell correctly and get at least 1 front line and 2 bullpen stalwarts from the arms in A, AA and AAA, with Moore and Wieters the team could be competitive in 5 or 6 years.

Of course, in 5 or 6 years Bedard and Guthrie will be done if they have typical ML careers - even if they become the next Glavine and Clemens....

I do not know what McFail is thinking, but I see the 1st option as far better than the 2nd.

Building the farm system is smart. That is how the Orioles had the best franchise in Baseball from 1969 - 1979. Having guys in AAA who can step up to fill in or replace veterans should be seen as a requirement.

Please understand, I am absolutely NOT against a strong fram system, good scouting and player development. The idea of not putting gobs of money into player development is just stupid. These things should be items 1, 2 and 3 on any master plan. But how does this equate to stopping all forward progress at the major league level?

Dumping vets for youth only works if you have a nucleus to build around. Arizona, mentioned as a young team previously, did not arrive over night (and did not build most of their team from within, either…). They also were not coming off 11 years of losing.

By the time the young talent we are waiting for get here, whatever nucleus we have will be past its prime. If they start today we are still talking about at least another 5 or 6 years…. I am sick of waiting.

I also do not understand why payroll is an issue. The O's have had the ability to spend $100 - $120 million on payroll for a few years, they just made a decision not to. I think this was largely to convince MLB they couldn't to keep the Nationals out.

But the Nationals are here and they are going to spend money. Isn't it time for the O's to stop crying poverty and pony up?

The more I hear what McFail wants to do the more I am convinced we are back on a road to nowhere.

90 wins are in our grasp and we are waving it off. It is the difference between the Pats having the ball inside the 20 and thinking "time to score" and the Ravens having the ball on the same yard marker thinking "I hope Stover's leg is OK..."

Only I am starting to think that Angelos and McFail are thinking this might be a great time to punt - after all, the opposition wouldn't be expecting that, would they?

If Mora is such a great 3rd baseman,why is it that people with a little speed can beat out bunts and softly hit ground balls?Do you think he plays too far back?
Do you love him standing in the batter's box while the catcher waits for a ball to go from foul to fair and picks it up and tags him out?
He's a bum. Show him the door and let him know he's not a leader we can win with.

CRB,

Please see the Diamondbacks, Rockies, and Brewers. All are teams that developed primarily with young players developed in their own system.

CRB. Excellent point re: bang for the buck....In hindsight, if we don't sign retreads like Baez, Payton, Javy Lopez, etc how much worse would we have been? Not much, I'm guessing we could have won around the same number of games using cheaper players from AAA and maybe even found a diamond or 2 in the rough. For example, give Payton's 400 AB to Tike Redman and we likely would have had just as much, if not more production, at a fraction of the cost.
Anyway, let's chalk this up as an expensive learning experience!
I read where Melvin is ready to move to a winner...That's nice but what winning team is going to want a 35 yr old, whinny player on the downside of his career, manning a power position, who knocks in 55 runs and makes 8 mill/yr? I'm guessing the market is kind of thin there!
Mora should just keep quiet and be thankful the O's were stupid enough to give him that bloated contract. I must admit that I was one of those pushing for the O's to extend him. That was before he began his sudden decline in production and increased his complaining.
Like it or not, we are likely stuck with him for the remainder of his contract (is it 2 more years?) because no one else will take him off our hands unless we pay most of his salary.

Roch,
Absolutely brilliant idea with the "Grow Your Own" slogan! I'm serious, you could have a future in marketing for the Orioles (but you could get a better contract elsewhere) if (god forbid!) you ever tire of doing this blog. What a great way to remind fans what the team is going to be all about in the near future.

I've generally liked Melvin Mora over the years, but for him to still be complaining in mid-November about sitting for a few games in late September so that the team could have a look at a newer, younger player speaks volumes about his attitude. Mora wasn't exactly being punished, after all, and the result of those games wasn't important, so what's the big deal? Get over yourself, Melvin, and good luck on your next team.

JD, have a look at some archived photos of Brooks batting, and you'll see that the bill of his helmet was a lot shorter than normal. He customized it himself. I can't state the reason why with absolute authority, but I'll bet it was either to improve his field of vision at the plate, or to make the helmet easier to find in the dugout before an at-bat -- maybe both. Ancient Orioles lore... kind of reminds some of us why we're still here. Enjoy!

Wow.

2 pieces of really good news in the paper this morning!

Melvin essentially saying he'll take a trade. And, even better, the possibility of the Yankees overpaying Tejada while he continues his slide towards obsurity.

Miggy won't move to third base "for the Orioles". Who pays his damn salary anyway?

Mora wants to see what we do before deciding if he wants to stay here. Who pays his damn salary anyway?

What a Godsend it would be to be rid of these two. Can't build any team around two selfish malcontents.

Now for the silly notion that we shouldn't trade within our own division: Why the heck not? When you make a trade you are believing you are getting more value than you are giving. Even in the so-called help-both-teams trades, each team believes they are getting more value than they are giving. Where better than in your own division? You are lowering your trade partners long term value and improving your own.

The only reason for not trading within your own division is cowardice. In case you have judged talent wrong, or in case lightning strikes and the traded player has a banner year, you might get criticized. Poor baby. That's what risk-taking is all about.

I am thrilled with the concept of "Grow Your Own". And I would definitely buy that t-shirt Roch. Someone should run with that project (selling t-shirts) for sure! If it won't be you, can you release the idea to the entreprenneurial folks on this board?

x for x-ited about a real youth movement, a real commitment to a plan at all levels and a real chance to see more team-oriented guys wearing orange and black.

Roch,
Kentucky didn't lose their home opener,they won against Central Arkansas. Gardner-Webb was their second game. Wow the media loves it when Kentucky loses.Wonder why?
It would be very good for the Orioles to move Mora if they can. I like the direction they are going myself. I believe its the best way. I would still try to sign Bedard to a long term though,hard to find a number one starter like him. If you already have him in the organization,keep him here. Make him an offer he can't refuse!

Sheets: I disagree. Giving up Mora for nothing wouldn't be foolish; it would be brilliant.

My guess is that the Orioles will have to eat at least half of his salary this year in order to con any other team into taking his contract off of our hands.

I don't blame Mora for wanting to win. I blame him for the precipitous drop in his statistics.

JD - I remember Brooks’ helmet. It was too strange for words. If you never saw it consider it blessing.

Brooks had actually started playing at the end of the era where players only put a plastic liner under their hat for protection when batting. The first batting helmet was like the ones used by a lot of catchers now. It looked like the regular hat with no earflaps and the player could wear it like a hat. It also was not very thick or hard.

Around the late 60's ('68? '69?) the league started to require a helmet that actually protected the player. Some had earflaps, some did not, but they were thicker and harder and offered some actual protection.

Brooks felt this helmet restricted his view. He could not push it up on his forehead like the old ones and he could not bend the bill, either. He got the equipment manager to remove the bill entirely and had something that looked like an NFL helmet without the mask.

MLB vetoed that but allowed him to make the bill smaller. The result was a really odd looking helmet with a little tiny brim.

As far as I know he was the only guy who did this and thank goodness for that.

brooks stated trimming the the bill after he was hit in the ehad and went to a batting helmet with an earflap. he used to use the smaller insert helmet under his cap

That slogan (grow your own) would work great for Mora. Grow your own pair of balls you freaking waste of a player.

After reading the Mora article. I like Mora but it is time for him to move on. In one sentence he says that last year to many people with 5,6 years of experience thought they were better then everyone. Then later he says he did not like sitting in Sept while Scott Moore played. Sounds like he is part of the problem. Maybe it will challenge him to play better for fear of losing his job. Also as for Trembley calling Cabera unprofessional for throwing at a batter. I agree with it. That is not disrespectful, saying Cabera can't throw strikes because of his head problems is but not that. Mora does need to be reminded that it is a honor to be on the 25 man roster.

No offense but what did this dude do to make the Pirates a better team? They've actually had a losing record for LONGER than the O's.

Tom D,

The Orioles did spend close to $100 mil last year (well, $95 mil). They had the 10th highest payroll in MLB.

The problem is what other posters have said . . . they have spent inefficiently.

Really, the problem is two-fold:

1. The Orioles need to sign big money, high-impact, quality free agents so that they can start winning.

2. Big money, high-impact, quality free agents don't want to come to Baltimore because they are not winning.

Joseph Heller couldn't script it any better.

I DO grow my own.

Satyr3206 - I know some of what Mora says can sometimes look selfish on the surface. While he has his problems, I do not believe he is a "me first" type of player.

I think if you read what he said from the perspective of a guy who has been with a losing team for almost all of those losing years it makes a lot more sense.

Melvin said he wants to be on a winning Oriole team. But he is now 35 and he knows he will not be playing 6 years from now.

If McFail is going to take the O's backwards to rebuild with "youth" he knows he will not play for a winning team in an Oriole uniform. Given that, he would prefer to play for a winner now and will waive his no-trade to allow it.

I do not find this selfish at all. Under the circumstances, you would probably have the same feelings.

People seem to expect pro athletes to be different from human beings. They are expected to accept their lot in life cheerfully. They are not allowed to behave exactly the way we would in the same situation. If they do they are called selfish.

Huff, for instance, did not want to leave Tampa Bay but they traded him anyway. When he returns to Tampa he is booed. Why? Because he was too selfish to block a trade? Ridiculous.

Mora is cajoled for not waiving his no-trade and then for saying he will.

Would it be better if he said he is only too happy to play for a loser?

Mora confuses me.

First is says there was a divide in the clubhouse, - still? Shocking! and hints that if given the chance he could fix it.

Then he says he felt disrespected because in the last month of the 10th losing season, Trembley took a look at another 3b player, and Mora had to sit out a few games. Not exactly what you want to hear from your self appointed peace maker.

Next he goes on to say he’d “die” for the Orioles- just as long as that does not mean changing positions.

Tom D - I usually agree with your posts and/or find them thought provoking, but how can you say that "90 wins are within our grasp"???

That will only happen if we win by forfeit because the earth opened up and swallowed the Yanks, Blue Jays and Sawx.

Satyr: Those teams had a lot of young talent, but my point is, not all spots are held by players from their own system, and competing teams have to find help from elsewhere. As far as major contributors on those teams, Arizona has Eric Byrnes, Orlando Hudson, Randy Johnson (though injured), Doug Davis, and Livan Hernandez from other teams; Milwaukee has Johnny Estrada, Jeff Suppan, Claudio Vargas, Chris Capuano, Francisco Cordero, and Derrick Turnbow; and Colorado has Yorvit Torrealba, Brian Fuentes, Latroy Hawkins, and Josh Fogg.

You can probably say that good veterans weren’t exactly beating down the door to play with any of those teams (and all three have less financial resources than the Orioles theoretically do). And you can say that those teams focused more on their players from within than those they got elsewhere. But they all added contributing pieces from outside, whether by free agency or trade, to varying degrees (Colorado seems to have used more from within than other teams—particularly in its everyday starting lineup—and they made it to the World Series!). They all succeeded on a solid mix (a varying mix, to be sure—there’s no one set formula) of homegrown and outside players. This is what the O's should be shooting for.

It is not clever to use "McFail" and it's unesessarily disrespectful...especially given the McPhail name in O's (and baseball's) history.
If you have a criticism of him, fine. Using it detracts from whatever you have to say.
Nobody else in the O's FO built two playoff teams. I suggest we give him the time to succeed.
Blame him for his moves, not his name.

Who could Mora be referring to when he says...

"The problem is you have people that have been in the big leagues for five, six years, and they think they own the Orioles,"

tvdpdx,

I agree wholeheartedly. Just one clarification...2 WS championships in Minnesota, 2 playoffs with the Cubs. No one in the front office, short of Pat Gillick, has had this type of resume. You think people around here would cut the man some slack!

TVDPDX... some of us started using the MacFail term when he dealt away a fan fav (Gomez) midseason for NOTHING to Cleveland.
To date, the only decent trade he has made is the 'prospects" for Trachsel, but the jury is still out on that one too. I know Trachsel was not appreciated here, but he did eat innings & kept the team in games. If you recall the late seasom meltdown & the starters trotted out then, Trachsel looks like Cy Young next to them. He also taught the young guys the ropes & how to prepare I have heard. The guys MacFail got in return have yet to prove much, we'll see.... so basically McPhail hasn't proven much yet. I think we are allowed to be skeptical considering the past.

Don't know if this is true (it's from wikipedia), but if it is, it says a lot about Mora's character:

Melvin Mora agreed to represent his native country, Venezuela, in the 2006 World Baseball Classic, joining fellow Venezuelan major Leaguers Bobby Abreu, Edgardo Alfonzo, Miguel Cairo, Omar Vizquel, Carlos Guillen, Johan Santana, Freddy Garcia, Carlos Silva, Carlos Zambrano, Victor Zambrano, and Francisco Rodriguez. He later pulled out after being denied the third-base position in favor of Miguel Cabrera.

And now, your 2008 Orioles lineup:
(Ages from ESPN)

1. CF Tike Redman (30)
2. LF Freddie Bynum (27)
3. RF Nick Markakis (23)
4. 1B Kevin Millar (36)
5. DH Aubrey Huff (30)
6. C Ramon Hernandez (31)
7. 3B Scott Moore (23)
8. SS Luis Hernandez (23)
9. 2B Brandon Fahey (26)

SP1: Jeremy Guthrie (28)
SP2: Adam Loewen (23)
SP3: Daniel Cabrera (26)
SP4: Hayden Penn (23)
SP5: Radhames Liz (24)

BP: Jamie Walker (36), Chad Bradford (33), Brian Burres (26), Rocky Cherry (28)
SU: Jim Hoey (24)
CL: Corey Doyne (26)

I know, I know. The good players won't sign here, and there's no point in continuing to give A-Rod + Manny money to combos like Baez-Payton-Mora-Gibbons-Benson-Wright-Trachsel. Ugh.

So, sure, fine, go ahead, get some top A and AA talent for Bedard, Tejada, Roberts and Mora (if you can). Teach them baseball, keep them healthy, and don't rush them to the big leauges.

I'll just go to Aberdeen/Frederick/Bowie and watch Weiters, Rowell, and the new kids for the next three years.

I might even come back a year earlier if you can bring back John Miller, and put "Baltimore" back on the away jerseys.

tvdpdx,
Thank you for saying what I was thinking. We are always hearing people complain about a lack of clear direction by the O's.

McPhail has been here just a few months, has embarked upon what appears to be very clear direction and you guys are already beating on him.

Besides, who says this process has to take 5 to 6 years? Smart trades, solid player development and a few well-considered free agent signings are the ticket.

You want to just go out and buy a playoff team, why not just go root for the Yankees, they've already cornered the market on that approach.

Paying a pile of money to put a slew of free agents in Orange and Black uniforms doesn't make them Orioles. Recreating the "Oriole Way" is the only way to do that.

i still can't believe players can have this attitude they are better than other players. i don't care if you've been in the league 12 years. if the other guy plays better, and with more passion, he's in the game.

divided clubhouse? then why didn't you call a meeting and end it. you want to be a leader? do it in the clubhouse, not by blurting it out in the balt sun / wash post.

to any mlb'er who gets so jaded, remember there are thousands of people who would kill to be in your position, and would play for 34,000 a year, no questions asked.

these guys are paid a kings ransom to play a kids game. indeed, they need to grow their own, and wake the f**k up (this goes for chris henry too)

I don't think going with youth means it will take five or six years for the Orioles to be competitive. Consider the young talent Boston and NY have right now (Ellsbury, Buchholz, Hughes, Pedroia, Kennedy, Chamberlain): I believe all were drafted in 2005 or later. If we draft well over the next year or two, convert some players like Tejada into good prospects, and develop the talent we've currently got in the minors, the youth can make the 2010 Orioles a playoff team. Not alone, mind you - we'd still probably need a good free agent or two, plus continued development of Markakis and keeping an ace like Bedard. But that's what we should shoot for. However, trading guys like Tejada just for the sake of trading them won't help. The key is to get GOOD talent in return. If instead we load up on fringe guys like Moore, Hernandez, House, etc. (basically the "youth movement" we've seen in the past), we're screwed. It's Syd Thrift all over again. We need potential impact players throughout the minors. Having a Reimold isn't enough, we need three or four outfielders that good or better since the chances even one becomes an All Star are not that high.

After reading some of the comments posted here today, I'm starting to believe that their authors seem to know the answers before they hear the questions. It's November 8...let's give Andy's Gang some room to move here. He's not a savior, and the shape of this franchise might even provide a savior with some serious headaches.
In regards to Tejada and Mora, their glow has diminished recently, so if we can get something relative to their worth then it should get done - before their skills fetch even less. And the farm system is apparently a mess...and NO ONE wins without a farm system that's producing, so that means a few YEARS before we can even think about turning a corner.
Free Agents????? What substantial free agent would want to come here at this point? There was a time when I would cruise the headlines all off-season looking for enticing pieces of information about who we could sign or trade for. Nowadays it's all about sitting tight and waiting for the clouds to clear.
I've been an O's fan for 44 years. I remember the good times as well as 1988. After watching major league baseball all that time I've come to learn that no team remains incompetent forever. It's been a while since things were good, but they WILL turn around. None of us knows what really goes on behind the curtain, but based on his track record I have to believe that Andy can make a difference.
Like I've said before (...and so has Toby...) - "...brick by brick..."

tvdpdx - I agree completely.

Ad hominem arguments always reflect more poorly on the arguer than on his/her target.

And they make no sense at all when applied to someone with the opposite track record elsewhere and who has only just begun here.

Tom D - interesting post. I agreed with what I took to be your main conclusions:

1. The FO should not be allowed to cry poverty

2. The FO should invest heavily in player development and scouting

3. The FO should ALSO be willing to up the payroll to quicken the progress - we ain't playing in Montreal.

Another alternative is for the FO to keep the payroll at middle-of-the-pack levels but lower ticket prices accordingly.

If it were me, I would be sweating those 1 million + empty seats every year costing me $30 million in revenues every year. I would want to get the fans back as quickly as possible. And, given our resources, that would mean selecting the "all-of-the-above" option :

Invest in scouting

Invest in Player Development

Invest in Prime Free Agents, even if you have to overpay

Quit getting mediocre or "bargain" free agents. That is like buying sheets and towels at WalMart. You get that for which you pay.

Find some fan friendly policies to implement - Baltimore on the road jerseys would be an easy one.

Operate in the red (or closer to it) for a few years, confident that it will speed up the return to 3m+ fans and a much higher value for the franchise.

just my $.02

I find it ironic that about a 18 months ago nearly every other post on this blog included the words, "Sign the man!" speaking of Mora. Yet now everyone is griping about how the Orioles have saddled themselves with his ridiculous contract and they need to get rid of the bum. Its amazing how fickle fans can be.

All this sounds wonderful until one remembers those two words that will hose it all up and destroy everything that MacPhail is trying to accomplish:

Peter Angelos.

I used to be one of those optimistic O's fans, who thought that their off-season signings of mid-level free agents was going to finally get them them over hump that year. Not anymore. This rebuilding process should have occurred 5 years ago AT LEAST. With that said, I hope we make the correct deals with this firesale. I hope MacPhail doesnt make deals to just make deals. Get rid of everybody. Get rid of Bedard, Tejada, Mora, Roberts, Millar, Huff, Payton, and the rest of a 4th place squad. Let's be realistic. If we trade No One, there is the shot that Tampa still passes us in the standings. We are in a no lose situation if we get rid of everybody. Let's do it now, before it's too late.

Mark C,

Well said!

With regard to Mora, he is not the swiftest thinking baseball player. Can remenber several bone head plays he made taking the O's out of several rallies with goofey running decisions last year. By by MM.

Per the Seattle Times, Sam Perlozzo got picked up as 3rd base coach for the Mariners...

From the Department of Bold Predictions--Should the Orioles trade Tejada to the Yankees, the following are to be expected:

1. The O's are going to get burned in the exchange, because New York won't give up any of their young guns such as Hughes, Ramierez or Chamberlain in the deal and what their farm system is pretty depleted since these players and a few others, such as Phillips, who were the quality prospects have already been called up.

2. Miggy will suddenly look like the Miggy of old and, mark my words, woukd hit something like .320, 33, 125 in pinstripes.

If he has to be traded, better to a team out of the division, preferably out of the league.

Charlie R - Thanks for catching the error in my estimation - all this nostalgia talk may have affected my thinking.

What I meant to say was the O's currently have and have had the ability to spend more on salary than they have and they are not spending it because they chhose not to not because they do not have the money to spend.

Angelos got a windfall from his friend in Milwaukee for the DC franchise, MASN, the Comcast settlement, smart moves at insuring players before the insurers cut back, and surprisingly strong apparel sales more than make up for empty seats.

I disagree, however, that the O's need marquee players to be competitive. It does not hurt to have them, but what they need more are strong complimentry players to support the several really good players they already have.

I also disagree that marquee players won't come here.

I think Vlad used the O's to get the LA deal, but I think several of the other deals were not done because Angelos was still trying to keep DC out.

If he misses a deal by 3 million bucks he can say "See? Put a team in DC and you kill my franchise." Sign the deal and how can he calim he cannot compete with a team in DC?

I think the O's gave Baez a stupid contract not because they meeded to so he would sign but because the people making the decisions were, well, stupid. Gillick, Wren, Cashman, Epstein - all guys wiht the $ to spend would get Baez, if they really wanted him, at market price.

But all this is moot because McFail is not interested.

My Name Is Earl - I mean it is within our grasp if we make the right moves.

If we were to stay with just the current team we would not be any better in 2008. If we add the competent players I have been taling about then, yes, 90 wins can be there.

tvdpdx - I would dispute your assertion that McPhail built 2 playoff teams.

His record in Chicago is certainly mixed. There was just no consistency to the team at all. The current team has none of his fingerprints on it.

His record in Minnesota is mixed, too. He arrived in 1985. Puckett, Hrbek, Gaetti, Viola, etc - the nucleus of their world series team - arrived in 1981, 1982. He made some good moves - Gladden, Rearden, but the hard work of building that team was already done.

McPhail added nothing to the team. They won a WS in 1991 and did not appear in the post season again until 2001 - McPhail cannot claim that as his legacy.

He got the nick name "McFail" in Minnesota, by the way.

While his family may have been great to the Orioles, he arrives here with a middling record and great PR and immediately announces he is not ready to compete so the fans who have waited 11 years can suck eggs.

When he does something I will change, but for now he is just McFail.

Hey Dave,
i like that lineup. I could support that.

Tom D. I am soooo glad you are not the GM. Sometimes you make some sense, but your ideas about rebuilding are AA tops.

The other nabobs of negativism:
Please can you give Mr McPhail a couple of months before dumping on him?

Back when all three Ripkens were with the ML Orioles, with Cal Sr. the manager, I received a publicity thing from the O's with a photo of them standing together.
The immediate slogan that came to me was "Watch Us Grow." The O's never did take on the hard task that Andy MacPhail has grasped. Maybe this time, if he stays around long enough, they'll get what they work for, instead of what they deserve.

TVDPDX - I couldn't have said it better myself.

I like the direction the Orioles are going in. MacPhail has a plan, and he's working it. He overhauled the major and minor league coaching staffs and is more focused on te foundation of the organization, which is the development of young players. It's been too long since we focused on that.

Spending $100 million on free agents is not going to get it done over the long haul. Sure, the Orioles could go out and sign Corey Patterson, A-Rod, Andruw Jones, Francisco Cordero, Carlos Silva, Kenny Rogers, and Ron Mahay, but what would that accomplish? Other than spending an additional $100 million a year, there's no guarantee that those guys would bring home a championship.

Does anyone remember what the Dallas Cowboys did when Jimmy Johnson took over? He immediately traded Herschel Walker, their best player for 3 players and 3 1st round picks. Those first round picks turned out to be Emmitt Smith, Alvin Harper, and Russell Maryland - 3 very big contributors to their future Super Bowl success.

I'm not saying we have to trade Erik Bedard, but if he brings 2-3 stud prospects back in the deal, we have to do it. Tejada and Mora have to go too, since we have young players that can fill in for them already. I know I'd have more fun rooting for Scott Moore in the 9th inning of a close game than Melvin Mora, wouldn't you?

v is for very important offseason!

I think this is crap! I'm an Orioles fan religiously, and I like what McPhail is doing, but shouldn't it be peppered with some "now" talent and free agents. Get some energy back at the ballpark with a few big names while developing the farm system. The coaching hires are great, but it seems like McPhail's only plan is loooong term. We're sick of waiting! Yes we will, but give us SOMETHING that will at least get us to .500 next year and the year after that. A lot of it comes down to money, yes, money, and we need to be willing to dig deep and spend some. We're Oriole fans, let us have our cake and eat it tooo every once in a while.

I think Tom D is the same poster as that "Earl" guy. He was fond of name-calling, and posted at mind-numbing length, too.
Anybody who faults AMcP for trading away Chris Gomez doesn't understand how lousy this team is, and probably has become a part of the culture of losing.
Fixing things isn't really that hard in concept: 1) draft well 2) develop well 3) mix in a few trades, 4) have effective leadership in the dugout at the major league level, and 5) when the time comes sign a few free agents to fill in..
The problem has been that those in charge of the O's have failed at these tasks.

A second on the irony (hypocrisy?) noted by JimP - and I think the refrain was "PAY the man" regarding Mora. Sometimes we just don't know as much as we think...

It is somewhat surprising to see there are enough people who really care about the O's as evidenced by the number of posts and the passion therein.

Move Miggy to third, Mora to left. Trade them. Spend money. Develop the farm system. Sign free agents. Yadda yadda.

It doesn't matter! As long as Peter Angelos owns this team, we're doomed. His insufferable ego condemns us to another 10 years of losing, or as many years as it takes for someone else to own the team. Even God couldn't fix the Orioles, because he'd be second in charge in Angelos' hierarchy.

FIRST OFF I WISH THIS NONSENSE ABOUT NEEDING BALTIMORE BACK ON THE AWAY JERSEYS WOULD STOP- ITS PETTY AND INSIGNIFICANT! IT LOOKED AWEFUL, TACKY, AND OUT OF PLACE ON THE UNIFORM BEFORE- IT JUST DID NOT LOOK RIGHT, OR NEAR AS GOOD AS ORIOLES DOES. JUST TOO BUSY AND UGLY.
I DONT FEEL WE CAN WIN AS LONG AS ANGELOS OWNS. AN OLD YANKEES FAN WHOS FOLLOWED BASEBALL HIS ENTIRE 75 YEAR OLD LIFE FREQUENTS ONE OF MY PLACES OF EMPLOYMENT AND HE STATED THAT IN HIS OPINION MCPHAIL ISNT THE ANSWER AND I AGREED FOR ONE MAIN REASON- AS HE SAID, MCPHAIL WILL NOT SPEND MONEY- NEVER HAS. IF YOU LOOK AT ANY SUCCESS HIS ORGANIZATION IN MINNESOTA HAS HAD, ITS DUE TO PLAYERS THAT WERE ALREADY IN PLACE BEFORE HE GOT THEIR, OR MORE RECENTLY, THEY MAKE ANUAL PLAYOFF TRTIPS PLAYING IN A DIVISION THAT BEFORE LAST YEAR WAS VERY WEAK, AND FILLED WITH SEVERAL SMALL MARKET TEAMS. IVE STATED THAT THIS IS THE AL EAST AND IT IS NO JOKE! YOU MUST SPEND TO COMPETE UNLIKE OTHER DIVISIONS, AND YOU CAN NOT JUST FOCUS ON PITCHING AND DEFENSE- YOU NEED 9 MASHERS IN YOU LINEUP TOP TO BOTTOM. IF TORINTO HAD AN 8 AND 9 HITTER, THEY COULD WIN THE DIVISION. IN MINNESOTTA, SAN DIEGO, OR OAKLAND PLAYED IN THIS DIVISION THEY TOO WOUL;D COME IN 4TH EVERY YEAR. IN THOSE INFERIOR DIVISIONS YOU DO NOT NEED TO SPEND MONEY TO WIN AS I HAVE STATED BEFORE. THEY DONT HAVE TO COMPETE WITH NY, BOSTON, OR TORONTO 18 OR 19 TIMES EACH, AND IF THEY DID, THHS LOW BUDGET THEORY THEY HAVE WOULD FAIL. SO YOU TAKE A GUY WHOS HAD SUCCESS IN A LESSER PLACE AND THAT STRATEGY WILL BE NO GOOD HERE. DONT TELL ME THE ORIOLES CAN NOT AFFORD ADAM DUNN, OR HE WONT COME HERE. THE O'S NEED A CLEANUP HITTER DESPERATELY AND WE HAVE TO HEAR A BUNCH OF BS ABOUT HOW WE DONT NEED FREE AGENTS WHEN WE GOT THE MONEY. WE CAN OVERPAY A BIT FOR A DUNN OR JONES, BUT MCPHAIL AND ANGELOS WILL NOT. IM READY TO DENOUNCE THE ORIOPLES AND GIVE UP- IM JUST SICK OF THIS- WEVE BEEN REBUILDING FOR 10 YEARD NOW. I AGREE WITH TOM D. COMPLETELY. I WILL GIVE MCPHAIL THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT BECAUSE EVERYONE DESSERVES A CHANCE AND SOME OF US ARE NOT EVEN GIVING HIM 1 YET, BUT IM JUST SAYING DONT EXPECT MUCH OR GET YOUR HOPES UP BASED ON HIS SO CALLED SUCCESS IN AREAS WHERE THE SAME FORMULA HE USED WOUD NOT WORK HERE.
I WAS ALL FOR US TO RESIGN MORA, AS WELL BUT IM VERY DISSAPOINTED IN HIM. I STILL FEEL TEJADA SHOULD STAY BECAUSE WE WONT FIND NEAR HIS PRODUCTION AT HIS POSITION AND HERNANDEZ HAS NEVER EVEN HIT IN THE MINORS AT ALL SO WHAT DO YOU EXPECT FROM HIM- THE 60 AB SUCCESS HE HAD HEAR WAS A FLUKE AND HE WONT REPEAT OVER REGULAR PLAYING TIME AND THE LONG HAUL TO BE CERTAIN. LOOK AT MIGGYS NUMBERS AND CONSIDER HE WAS OUT FOR A BIT AND PROJECT HIS ATBATS AND HE IS RIGHT WHERE HE USUALLY IS JUST LIKE HE SAID HE WOULD BE WHEN HE WAS SLUMPING EARLY- FOR 400 AND SOME AB'S HIS PRODUCTION DID NOT DECLINE AT ALL. HE WOULD GO TO NY AND FLOURISH- HE NEEDS HEL;P IN THE LINEUP- BUT SHORT FROM TRADING ALMOST THE ENTIRE TEAM, THE ONLY WAY WERE GONNA WIN IS TO SIGN 3 OR 4 BIG FREE AGENTS AND IF WE DO WE CAN COMPETE. OF COURSE WERE NOT JUST 1 OR 2 BIG SIGNINGS AWAY FROM COMPETING LIKE MCFAIL SAYS, BUT IF WE MADE 3 OR 4 BIG SIGNINGS I CERTAINLY BELIEVE WE CAN WIN 90- BUT WE WILL DO NEITHER BECAUSE THE BRASS CNTINUES TO FEED US CRAP!

Hargrove is a true nice person. Met him in his locker room with Cleveland for an exabition to open Camden. Wish I could have gotten some autographs. He was very nice to me. Letting me adjust the temperature in his locker. Rex Barney was also very nice. He would go into a room in the Cleveland locker room, lock the door and do his WBAL reports from there. Lowenstein was very nice. He was doing TV . Mussina and Dempsey sort of had there noses up. Not very friendly. But some people dont like to talk to construction workers. Mike and Rex were class guys. Enough rambling.