Great thoughts, Roch. I get worried, though, when people start talking about trading someone with obvious value (Ramon Hernandez) for other than a "top" prospect. I get the point, of course. The Mets won't think he's worth Milledge or Gomez, etc. But you want someone who might someday be a regular, at least, or why do it? Salary dump? Not worth it in this case. Gibbons, yes. Please. But Hernandez has too much value, and to paraphrase Casey Stengel, you need a catcher, or the ball goes all the way to the backstop.

Maybe Pelfrey. His stop has dropped. But I'm guessing ther Mets think he's too much, too. I say keep him unless you can get somebody really worth having. Send a personal trainer to work with him eight hours a day. Trade him at the trade deadline, or after next season (I forget whether 2009 is an option year, but I recall we can control it).

Roch, if you're being paid close to $30 million per year, you should give money back if you're NOT the MVP.

It is important to note that both of Ordonez's first place votes came from Detroit sportswriters...

Concerning Ramon, the O's do not need to trade him, and they should be looking for someone like Lastings Milledge, Philip Humber or Carlos Gomez from the Mets. Despite his down year, he is still one of the better catchers in baseball, and he has a reasonable contract. He will be healthy to start next year, and the O's have no reason to trade him for a mediocre prospect, they might as well have him keep the spot warm for Weiters. The Mets might cave on Milledge or Humber eventually if they cannot find a backstop solution, so the O's should sit tight and wait for now.

If the Santana/Aybar deal was to be put back on the table, I'm sure the O's would take it now... would all of you out there?

CRB – The Dodgers have brought Torre on board because they expect to win NOW, yet they have some big holes (no #1 starter, no quality left handed starter, no impact 2B, no lead off hitter, no reliable production from 3B, a hole in their OF) to fill. There aren’t any available solutions for those needs available in this year’s free agent market (except CF), and those players are not available for trade except 3B.

Let’s suppose that the Dodgers give up three or four of their best prospects for Miguel Cabrera. Where do they fill their other needs, particularly the pitching? We can give them EXACTLY what they need, they will control those players for at least two years, and probably would be able to resign Bedard and Roberts. This is the perfect baseball trade: A win - win for both teams.

Read the blogs in LA. Those fans are not going to patiently wait for a couple of years while their young talent develops.

John Scherholz (sic) or Billy Bean would be able to get this kind of trade done, let’s see if Andy Mac Phail has the vision and courage to make it happen.

Roch – You have a much better take on what is being discussed in any potential trade for Hernandez, but why would we settle for a second tier prospect when the Mets have no where else to go. It appears that the trade market is Laird and Hernandez. Hernandez has the better record and upside. After the Mets came so close last year, do you think that their fan base is going to accept the second best player to fill a need? Does anyone doubt that a motivated Ramon Hernandez would be at least one win better than Gerald Laird?

Isn't Orioles supposed to be Oriolels? Maybe you wanted to say "OrioLOLs!".... yeah, maybe that needs to be corrected. Or, that just indicates what the Orioles are being called these days due to these losing seasons...

But I digress. I just hope the people like Gibbons, Payton, and the such are off our roster by Opening Day. I cannot take any more playing time for these "players". Eat their salaries and bid them goodbye forever.

Trading Tejada to the Angels just seems so logical by the day. Angels aren't in our division, and we don't really see them that much so Tejada wouldn't make an impact. Of course, we don't have another shortstop like Tejada's "impact" but who cares right now? All I want is a defensive shortstop like Luis Hernandez or somebody like that. Find somebody else to hit homeruns....

Ok, that's it for today.

So the idea is to leave Trembley with Markakis, Roberts, maybe Bedard and a collection of guys either on the way out or with no MLB experience? Would they be this happy to scrap the team if their marquee name took the job?

Ramon is set for a comeback year. I know it is popular to assume once a player has a slump year they are done, their ship has sailed, etc., but that usually does not prove to be the case. To let Ramon go for a scrub would be proof that there is no real plan to improve the team.

Ramon's 2007 was an embarrasment. But in 2006 he showed he calls a good game. Trembley called him out after this season and I think the message got heard.

To the contrary, on a rebuilding team a good catcher is critical. The catcher seldom gets credit for it, but why would you suppose the same pitcher has different ERAs with different catchers? Especially if ALL of the pitchers have a lower ERA with one catcher than the other.

On a young pitching staff a good catcher is the difference between progress and the Family Sized Can of Whoop@$$. Having the pitchers clobbered day after day will not help their progress.

We have no idea when Wieters will be ready. I assume it will be sooner (July, 2008?) than later, but you only need look at the other catcher of the future - Brandon Snyder – to see why it is not wise to lay all our eggs in one basket. Wieters is starting out way ahead of Snyder, but his advanced skills do not exempt him from injury.

We would be better to keep Ramon. If Wieters establishes himself “early” we can still trade Ramon at deadline time - when his value would be higher anyway.

I get real nervous when people start talking about trading Ramon when we don't have anyone ready to take his place. I realize that the whole idea is for the club to get younger and with the presence of Weiters in the minors it doesn't seem that Ramon will fit too far into this club's future, BUT... Weiters isn't ready yet and we don't have another capable backup to bridge the gap in the meantime. For a club that is hoping to surge forward on the arms of their young pitchers who, save for two, have 1 year or less of ML experience handing their progression over to a sub-par catcher could potentially be a disaster waiting to happen. While I think if the right deal comes along for the O's they should take it for him, I don't think trading him for less than a top level prospect in order to simply shed some salary is a smart idea.

ROCH poses a good question - who are the LA/Anaheim Angels talking about offering for Tejada?

If it is Santana again the O's have to just say NO.

This team has a history of letting good players go for people who are a set down in ability and performance. That has to stop.

I think the Angels would rather take a run at Cabrera than Tejada right now. Is there any other market for him?

Any consensus on how close Reimold is? While he was at Bowie, he really did not play a great deal due to the Oblique Curse.

Is the plan to have him season a little in Norfolk or are they going to give him a real shot at the big club this spring?

I would take Brandon Wood for Tejada straight up in a heartbeat.
If the O's can't get a top prospect for Hernandez they should just keep him. The Mets are bluffing and we can't just give the guy away; we'd be better off keeping him.

I can't wait to see Paul Bako in the lineup for 140 games! Maybe the fourth Molina will win the job. We are quick to give up on some guys who play some fairly key positions and who have decent track record but will fetch little in return. What do I care if Angelos saves a few dollars on a bad contract. Why trade Hernandez for a mid-level prospect at this point? Won't our young pitchers benefit from working with a major league catcher?

Roch:

Magglio got two votes because two homer sports writers from Michigan (Detroit and Pontiac) voted for him. What a joke. He had a good year, but A-Rod's numbers were RIDICULOUS. No way anyone could bypass him for Magglio.

What will the Orioles do for a starting catcher... Heck, they don't even have a back-up one. And don't even go the bring back Bako route.
I don't think you're going to see as much action out of MacPhail as you think. But on the other hand.... we still have Flanagan in the FO. That should be worth a couple of over the hill mediocre reclamation projects.

I agree, I will believe it when I see it on Tejada...

As far as Ramon Hernandez's goes, I think the O's should do some research on maybe what the Mets are willing to offer....

In place of Ramon Hernandez, I wouldnt mind having Gerald Laird....

Oh and pretty impressive showing from Reimold. Do you think he's likely to get an invite to ST with the remote chance to do a Markakis impersonation and skip AAA altogether?

Why trade Ramon Hernandez? Sure, he's regressing but even so, he's better than what's out there. What next-bring back Geronimo Gil? I say stick with him until Weiters is ready Sure it matters!! We need some semblance of a MLB catcher, we already have below average players in the OF/1B & in the 'pen.
I notice from previous threads that many fans are pushing for the few productive players/pitchers we have to be traded for 'prospects'...That's fine if we get a truckload of these guys in return because anyone knows that in many cases, these so-called phenoms,etc don't pan out at the major league level.
Let's rid ourselves of the non-productive guys like Payton, Gibbons even if we give them away but be careful of writing guys off that still have many productive years left. Roberts, Bedard, Tejada are still in their late 20's/early 30s so they can be part of the 'turnaround'. (I'm mixed about Mora-he's older but fit and could still help).
I hope we can being fighting for a playoff spot within 2 years but any teams needs established veterans.

Any chance the O's could give Jeremy Brown a shot at catcher? I imagine the A's would give him up cheaply, and he'll likely hit better than any of the other backup options.

Plus, he'd be reunited with Tejada and Bradford, two of the other central figures of "Moneyball."

"I’m shocked that Ordonez received two first-place votes"

Don't be shocked, both votes came from Detroit area sportswriters.

Tejada to the Angels sounds fine to me, but please, Orioles, don't include Ervin Santana in the trade. That guy has been unimpressive throughout his career. I don't care how many games he won in his rookie year; just look at all the hits he gives up. He's the Joe Borowski of starting pitching. If not for awesome run support, he'd be in AA right now.

C'mon - after all of the love for JR House on this board last season when he was in Norfolk, I'm surprised that no one has suggested giving him the starting C job after the inevitable trade of Ramon to the Mets!

At least he would hit better than Bako...and you've gotta love his passion when someone throws a curve over the plate!

Roch,

Any word on the Bedard contract extension discussions?

Seems to me that MacPhail has just been trying to measure each side of the equation (price of extension v. return in prospects trade).

I'm a HUGE Bedard fan and want to keep the ace an O, but am trying to adjust my expectations of what his type of talent will give us in the short term. In effect, the Dodgers' initial offer was intriguing imo: a hard throwing and consistent reliever with serious closer potential, a speedy outfielder with some respectable short-term numbers at the plate, and a national top 10 pitching prospect.

What are your thoughts on that type of deal going down?

KG, no, the Orioles should not accept a Tejada for Aybar/Santana trade. That makes no sense for the Orioles. Aybar can't hit, and Santana can't pitch.
TS, I think if the O's really want Jeremy Brown, they can rule 5 him. He's not on the 40 man roster, but he'd have to stay on the big league roster. That would be interesting. Anyone out there know if Jeremy Brown can actually catch?

I wonder how many other Os fans are as worried as I am that Hernandez would get traded to the Mets -- not because I'm wary of trading him, but because Mets prospects are always overhyped and almost always significantly overrated? This is especially true of Milledge, who the Mets have been trying to unload for 2 years on anyone foolish enough to give them something in return.

I have to believe that if MacPhail moves a catcher with Hernandez' ability, he's going to insist on a, young, sure-fire everyday player in return.

With Wieters about to make his grand entrance, why would we want to pick up another prospect at C? Especially one with a lower upside than the guy we have?

You would think the desire would be to have a more experienced vet at back up who can help hasten Wieters MLB education.

Here is the missing part of everybody's plan. Success in the majors involves more than talent. Why else do you see guys like Piazza (62nd round!), Bedard (6th round), Boggs (7th round), Mattingly (19th round) excell over higher picks in their draft?

With one or two exceptions, the teams that have been successful with youth movements have done it by mixing the youth with experienced players. The experinced players anchor the team and show the kids how to act.

The teams that went on youth movements by throwing the kids to the wolves - the Royals, the Tigers twice, Tampa, etc. - have all failed.

Andy. Your Brandon Wood for Tejada straight up is far too one-sided in the Angels favour. Wood is young and has power but unproven at the MLB level. He could be the next Ryan Minor, Todd Cruz or Brandon Inge.
On the other hand, Tejada is still only 31 and has consistently hit .300, and hit 20-30plus HR, 100 RBI. His 'off-year' in 07 is still a career year for most middle infielders.
The Angels would jump all over that deal in a heartbeat. If I'm McPhail, they better add another player/pitcher or I'm hanging up the phone.

You should always buy low and sell high. You should never sell low. Tejada, Hernandez and Huff all had career worst years. If you trade any of them this offseason, you will get prospects given up on by the other team. Chances are that none of them will be worth what we give up.
For all the Tejada bashing, he is still one of the best offensive shortstops in the game. We don't like his numbers because we compare him to other clean-up hitters when we should be comparing him to other shortstops. On a "real" team, he'd bat 6th or later.
Hernandez is still the best option we have for catcher. I know everyone is already penciling in Wieters for the '09 line-up, but there are no guarantees in life (despite what Boras would have you believe).
As for Huff, he's as good as Baltimore's night life.

Roch-
Good points re Ramon the Fat---I say trade him now before you need a sundial to time him from home to first