Benson??? WHY???? Talk about a waste of space, they might as well of activated Anna Benson

Ahhhhh that dreaded oblique....

Let McCrory get some time in AAA, next year is going to look alot like this year did in Balmer.... no rush on those prospects THIS year.

Roch,

I think the Orioles added all of those players in anticipation of the Rule 5 draft. I'm scratching my head on Benson, though. Why would he be on our 40 man? Isn't he a free agent?

Based on your article above, here's how I would like to see the pitching staff shake out, with an emphasis on young pitching. If we're going to go young, then let's go young!

Starting Rotation (let's hope Kranny can work some magic with Loewen, D-Cab and Liz!)
Bedard
Guthrie
Cabrera
Loewen
Liz

Bullpen
Veteran closer (Cordero?)
Walker
Bradford
McCrory
Hoey/Doyne
Burres
Penn/Olson

It's time to find out what our young kids can do over a full season. I'd also like to see Reimold in LF for most of 2008, a la Markakis in 2006. It would be great if we could get some hitting prospects in return for Melvin Mora, Tejada and R. Hernandez as well (replaced by Moore, L. Hernandez and a veteran C - LoDuca?)

Right now our farm system is way ahead on pitching prospects. We have Erbe, Arrieta and Bascom 1-2 years behind the young guys. We need to get some hitters to help them out!

"y" is for young Birds!

Jeff V - not the same thing!

Millar did not "stop dealing" with the O's and he did not start playing for the Red Sox.

The equivalent you might be looking for is if Brooks signed a deal to sell his record exclusively at Target but then did a commercial telling people to shop at WalMart.

But that is still not the same.

Look at the Steve Kline interview. He said signing with Baltimore was a mistake, his teammates stunk, the fans in St Louis are better and he wished he were still in St Louis.

Millar said or did none of that. He said nothing disrespectful of the O's and he said nothing of consequence to indicate he did not want to be an Oriole.

Look at it this way - What if BJ Surhoff doesn't retire and comes back to play for Boston in 2008. He is reborn as pinch-hitter and occasional DH and is going strong 2 years later.

In 2010 the O's go to the WS and want their most recent Oriole HOF inductee and Baltimore county resident to throw out the 1st pitch.

Do you have a problem with that?

What if Boston says "stuff it!"? Do you say it is in bad taste to ask an active player from a division rival to throw out a 1st pitch?

Or do you say the BoSox are just petty?

I bet you don't have a problem with BJ throwing out the 1st pitch for the O's even while playing for the idle Red Sox.

So why is what Millar did so offensive?

You cannot release a player who is on the DL and I believe a player on the 60 day has to be activated by a certain date - I think Nov 1.

Now that he is activated, the O's can designate him, trade him or release him.

They may want to keep him, however, and see if his value goes up in spring. Even if they manage to trade him for a 2nd tier Class A prospect, it is better than nothing.

And given the past season, Kris Benson is a much better option if someone goes down than the Huey, Louie and Dewie rotation the O's had to use in September.

Has anybody figured out how to see the entire box scores for the Hawaii Winter League games? Generally, when you go to the site its cuts off the top of the box score?

I love all of these wannabe Gm's trading a guy with a no trade clause....I think you should post a new rule Roch, NO TRADES INVOLVING MELVIN MORA....We are stuck with that contract, but we can unload the rest...

"g" for Give Millar a break

I believe tommyd asked on the last post, and I would also like to know: What level is the Hawaii League considered?

Here's a link to the scoreboard for Hawaii Fall League games. I saw no problems with the box scores.

http://mlb.mlb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?sid=l405&t=l_sco&lid=405

I wonder if the Red Sox called the Yanks about Damon...hmmm? Methinks not. I was at Fenway August 06. Millar went down the lf line to give autographs and hugs and kisses to the Bosox ladies. I was wearing my O's gear and he made sure I got an autograph. He is really a great guy--but I must admit-- it was like being stabbed in the back but what the heck--we're O's fans--our backs are full of scars. At least we can say we have some class because we know the reverse will never happem and the Yanks would never allow it.

Backtracking a bit, what's this about talk about the NFL's worst quarterback being Tarvaris Jackson or Kyle Boller?

Kidding, right?

How about a QB who's so bad that although he started last year's Super Bowl (riding the extra wide coattails of his defense and special teams), he ends up getting benched this year for a player who's bounced around the league like a Super Ball or like a http://youtube.com/watch?v=SXoKm39vROo

Yes, we're talking Rex Grossman, not just this year's worst QB, but the worst one ever to start a Super Bowl.

Deke... try this. If it doesn't work it's the settings on your comp.

http://mlb.mlb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?t=l_sco&sid=l405&lid=405

It seems to be about high A looking at the rosters, as a good half of each team is at that level.

T-mac -

I like the enthusiasm you show with the young birds, but I can't see Liz in the starting rotation yet. In fact, it'd be more likely that Olson, Penn or Burress is that fifth starter. I also dont see any point in bringing in a veteran from the outside to "anchor" the rotation. I know Trembley likes the idea, but I say save the money. It seems like the orioles are in re-building mode, let's make it that way through and through and maybe use that money to sign bedard to a contract extension?? maybe? please?

As for the bullpen, I mostly agree, but again, I don't see the O's spending money on a real closer. Letting some of the guys like Hoey, Doyne and McCrory battle it out for the spot and wait for Ray to hopefully come back healthy. The bullpen might actually become a strong suit in a year or two if at least two or three of these young arms pan out, which would be a nice chane.

Also, I'd like to mention that I know Trembley wants a power lefty in the bullpen behind Walker, but I like Burres in there as the long reliever/swing man. I know he went through his rough patches but I haven't given up hope on him, plus he didn't seem to mind the role, and with all the orioles pitching injuries last year, it'd make sense to keep him around for an emergency start here or there.

I give Liz a full year at Triple A and some time to work on his mechanics before bringing him up again, where he might work out as another bullpen arm rather than in the rotation.

Also curious as to what's the deal with Jim Johnson? Is he just completely out of the mix for anything at this point? Is he seen as simply Triple A plus arm, but not a major leaguer, or could he potentially work his way into the fold somehow?

Hey Roch! Let's not forget that Billy Ripken returned during the middle of Cleveland's 100 win season to see Cal break Lou's record. Billy was an active player for the Indians at that time but he was sitting in the stands in Baltimore. Yes...he received permission from the club.

i think baltimore has a $7 million option if benson is on the team in 08.

and he wasn't all that bad in 06. i think he went 11-10 or something.

so what's the problem? do people here still think Os are going to world series "Next Year"?

ha

The Hawaii Winter League is sanctioned by the MLB, and is a wide spectrum. The closest match would probably be high-A (like Frederick). Go to the HWL site and find the Sept 23 article 'Baseball Prospectus Previews HWB' to get the best feel for what the league offers. It's a step below the Arizona Fall League.

Go through the minorleaguebaseball site to get the box scores without the glitch.

After listening to the audio, I have no problem with Millar throwing out the 1st pitch. The man busts his butt every night he's in the lineup for the O's - what more can you ask for? Go Millar!

Roch,
Long time reader, first time poster. What do you think about this idea and do you think the Orioles front office has thought about it. Trade berdard now for 2-3 stud prospects. Trade roberts and tejada for 1 or 2 stud prospects each. Tell markakis to hang on for a couple years and he will be the star veteran a of a young talented team. I know that no one wants to get rid of Berdard because we most likely will never have a pitcher like Berdard in Baltimore in our lifetime, but we will also never be good with Berdard pitching for us even if we can resign him and regardless of how many games he wins. We are atleast two all star position players, a ton of pitching, and more importantly a huge culture change away from being good. We all know that the Orioles cannot and will not spend the money to get that. Our farm is not very good but it does have some bright spots if we made the trades I said above we should have atleast 5 or six very good prospects there to go along with matt wieters and billy rowell. I know that we are talking about the Os so most of them wont pan out but if half of them do that is hopefully 4 that should be good to allstar players and a couple of solid playersto go allong with possibly snyder and remigold. If somehow this young pitching (ray, lowen, penn, olson, hoey, and erbe and the rest of the minor league guys) gets it together then we may actually have a chance to be good enough where we are actually a free agent or two from being good

Sarasota - I know that Melvin has a no trade clause. Who's to say he wouldn't waive that clause, though? What if the Yankees are interested in trading for him after A-Rod opts out of his contract? All I'm saying is that it is possible.

T-Mac I am with you in general on giving young kids a chance. But there is less risk in position players than pitchers. Liz is not ready now, but maybe after a couple of months at AAA if we get lucky???

I would like to see both Penn and Olsen get a serious shot at the rotation in the spring.

Also replacing Ramon Hernandez with LoDuca or similar would just be rearranging the deck chairs. Hernandez is better than he showed last year, and I expect him to improve in 08.

About the level of play in HWL, just a guess would be "A" or high-A, looking at the US names on there. But There are a lot of players from Japan, and what level they are at, I just don't know.

Maybe somebody else has an answer.

Might Benson on the 40-man also be a gamble? As I understand it, if we offer him arbitration and he turns it down we'll get a draft pick from the team that signs him. Where the pick is depends on how highly Benson is evaluated based on his last few seasons (so we aren't talking first round). If he takes arbitration, the Orioles have a great record in winning those cases and also have the edge that Benson did nothing last year. He'd be another option for back of the rotation veteran starter, and wouldn't cost the draft pick we'd lose by signing someone else for that role. It seems low risk, and might have some reasonable reward.

Liz came around a lot more than any other young pitcher on the staff towards the end of the season.

Trembley did an interview on the Anita show last week where he had a couple interesting things to say. One was that Liz, Olson and Hoey came to the big leagues with the idea in their mind that they had to pitch differently in the bigs than they did in AA and AAA.

I have to wonder if Mazzone's inability to get the message across to them that the things that got them to the bigs are the things they need to do in the bigs to have success - throw strikes, change speed and pitch to get outs not avoid hits or walks - had a lot to do with Trembley's decision to fire him.

The second thing he said was that the game moves very fast on in the big leagues. The 3 needed to slow the game down to their pace not try to catch up to the speed of the game.

This is easier said than done. Yet, if you noticed, Liz was much more deliberate in his final several games than in his first few. His motion was much the same, but his results were better.

I would not be suprised to see him make the staff in the bullpen out of spring. I would also not be suprised to see him go to AAA.

I have to say that getting a roughly .500 lifetime pitcher who has been around the league for a while is not that bad. Remember that Benson was with the Pirates and Orioles who both have blown a number of potential wins. His stats and especially his composure are far better than a guy like Cabrera. I'm not sure some of you realize how desperate we may be for pitching help. Question marks fill the 2-8 spots. Why do I mention the 6, 7, 8 spots? Because that's what it takes to compete even though we routinely neglect depth and then it is "Woe is us!" when we actually have an injury to a pitcher. Benson is better than 99% of the waiver wire scrubs we are picking up so why are you so quick to jettison someone under our control. I certainly respect his talent far more than Wright who clearly had nothing left before we signed him.

All I am saying is that if it is only money that we have to part with to improve our depth, you have to seriously consider it. If the FO determines that he is not a viable starter in this league, then you have to let him walk, but I doubt that is the case. Keep in mind the franchise with MASN is now worth nearly $800 million. They can afford Benson and give Bedard an extension--don't buy into the small market crap. How about all of the money that has not been spent? Where has that gone?

Tom, can't agree on giving Benson a "look see". It's not about his injury or potential, they would have to kick in his option I believe to take that "look see" & it's not cheap & certainly not worth the risk.
Now IF he would resign cheap for a year with mucho incentives, OK, take a look see, but I doubt he will do that here.

TomD, I think you may be on to something about Mazzone and the young pitchers at the end of the season. It was certainly true of Olsen -- look at his great control in the minors vs. his numbers in Baltimore.

The idea that you have to pitch differently in MLB than in AA or AAA is an old story. Hey, there are still people in baseball who believe that you can't predict ML performance from AA or AAA numbers. So I guess you can't blame the young guys for buying into the mystique of the big leagues.

I do believe that Penn, Olsen, and Liz all have the potential to be solid ML starters. And you are correct, Liz did look better at the end. He might have the highest top end potential of all.

Can't believe I'm saying this, but the arbitration idea for Benson actually makes sense if he is healthy. That bullpen will need innings from the starters. In a perfect world, Olsen, Penn, Liz, and Cabrera will all develop right away and Benson would end up blocking him. But the odds of that are long. If Benson pitches reasonably well, somebody will trade for him before the deadline, and that means prospects if the O's are smart.

Not a fair comparison Billy in stands vs. Millar promo and 1st pitch. Like everyone said you won't see Damon.

Grandeur and Dave:
Thanks for the Hawaii site information, it is a better than the one I was using,.

ok.. i don't think we should trade all our top players. let's examine a rockies..

brad hawpe drafted by colorado in the 11th round of the amateur draft after not siging with toronto in 1998.

matt holliday drafted in the 7th round in 1998...

they could have probably traded these guys 2 years ago to get "better prospects", but didn't and look at them now! not bad drafting two players who have come to roost... i'm not saying they didn't have trades (they traded ryan freeley to the royals for affeldt), but as others have said, i think the key is to have better management -- with the obvious focus on our young pitching.

keep markakis, keep roberts, hell keep tejada as the vetern leader. develop confidence in our starting pitching that the bullpen will hold their slim leads, and its amazing but they'll pitch less 'scared' which leads to mistakes.

i think mcphail and trembley are trying all this with the new hires, and hopefully a change of organizational direction. i hope i'm not just drinking the orange kool aid, but i believe we are in a better position than 5 years ago..

so for fun, here's an "o" so lovely "rebuilding" article. after 5 years, you should be "rebuilt". it really is deja vu all over again.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/stories/2002-07-11-midseason-al.htm

J is for Joy.

opps i forgot to post it.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/comment/bodley/2001-06-22-bodley.htm

U for ullllrighty then

Benson worth the risk at a lower price. Think they will decline the option which makes him a free agent. He could then be approached with an offer for much less as a free agent. Coming off injury will make him a risk for anyone, so a $1M with incentives for appearances may be his best offer. I'd like to have him back. One writer mentioned arbitration, but I don't believe that is a factor or even an option in this circumstance. Either exercise the option or set him free then approach for a new contract if they feel he his worth the risk.

nyjimbo - Damon and Millar is not a fair comparison.

Damon would not be invited unless the idea was someone would be throwing the ball AT him.

Even though the Red Sox, essentially, fired Damon, what matters to the fans is that he signed with the Yankees. There could be no greater offense.

A t-shirt popular in Boston has a picture the Damon with the hair and beard and says, "Looks like Jesus, Throws like Mary, Acts like Judas."

Nothing is as intense as this rivalry - not the Yanks/Mets, not the Dodgers/Giants, not even the ChiSox/Cubs.

How intense is it? Look at the NY tabloids today. Giuliani, adored by the NY Post, is called a traitor because -AFTER THE YANKEES WERE ELIMINATED - he said he wants to see Boston win the WS

While they are, indeed, in both in the AL East, that is not material. The NY/Boston rivalry would be as intense if one were in the central division.

If Damon had gone to Toronto, Tampa or Baltimore you could bet your paycheck he would be invited.

More on Millar:
You may have to remind Anita Marks that, first of all, she is not an O's fan. I don't expect her to be. She's here for a while, until she gets a job in a bigger market.
This is not a criticism, just a fact of life. I don't expect her to have the visceral reaction to Millar's betrayal that O's fans did.
As a newcomer, she doesn't have a lifetime of O's fanhood. She has no idea what it's like to have had one of the finest franchises in baseball turn into a national, humiliating joke.
She has no idea what it was like before swarms of Boston fans landed in Camden Yards like the bugs on Joba Chamberlain's neck.
So when she says that what Millar did is no big deal, she literally doesn't know what she's talking about.
Many of us feel like Millar kicked us while we're down, in a very vulnerable place.

To People Still Whining about Millar....

PLEASE STOP! It's over and done with. He shouldn't have to explain himself on the Anita Marks Show. He was celebrating a special moment with his friends. Millar spent the 2007 season with the O's working his butt off and providing quality offense and defense day in and day out. He was a team leader and kept his head held high through all of the monumental losses the O's went though. He kept the team spirited and provided some quality entertainment to my group of friends in section 18!!!

Just because he is loved so much by the fans in Boston, doesn't mean we need to hate him. And please don't compare him to Damon. I'm pretty sure everyone in Boston hates him. Just be lucky we have a lovable guy like Millar, who people enjoy watching.

I hope he returns in 2008, and I hope that all of you "disappointed" fans hold your boos on opening day... or perhaps direct them to someone else... (see suggestions below)

gibbons -steroids
mora - cry baby
tejada - even bigger cry baby
hernandez - can't catch, run, throw
cabrera - giant ball of attitude, walks everyone

Kevin takes pride in his team.. no matter who they are... yes he holds boston close to his heart, but he was a part of something monumental.

So leave the guy alone... please!

oh and to TomD and Brian from a previous blog... DIRTY DIRTY MINDS! ; )

paul in stl, in the end it comes down to recognizing talent and being able to tell the real thing from the pretenders. That's true whether you are looking at free agents or prospects in your own system, or other people's prospects, or high school and college kids. The O's unfortunately have been terrible at this over the past 10 years. The only standard that seems to have mattered is ML experience. Never mind that it might be a mediocre record of ML experience -- the vet was always more valuable than the "unproven" player. I think one reason scouting and minor league development got so bad was that nobody really thought there was much value there, so why put any effort into it?

Besides, the "name" player was easier to market and sell. You could convince people that progress was being made because, hey, we paid big money for the guy -- and you've actually heard of him! The media I think could have been a lot more critical in terms of judging these moves, but for the most part they bought into the program. Now finally people are starting to catch on.

I hope that under MacPhail the talent evaluation will be a lot better than it has been. I'm cautiously optimistic, but we'll see.

I couldn't resist Jennifer, that post of yours was a slam dunk.... :-)

I am glad you have a sense of humor...