jay payton is a bum.

Let's not jump to conclusions about Luis Hernandez's offensive shortcomings.....he is hitting .300, and if he hits .270 (which Belanger rarely reached) and plays outstanding D, I would want him there every day providing we can pick up one power stick for 1B, or LF. Pitching and D wins games, always has, always will. If Miggy wont move to 3rd, then lets trade him for whatever we can get...his D has cost us games...but I wish he would go to third, we can trade Melvin or move him back to left...

David Eckstein is a defense-first shortstop?! He's worse than Miguel Tejada! Look up the stats, Mr. Genius Manager Man Trembley. Boy scrappy whiteness gets people to overlook a lot.

I have always thought J Payton was overrated & a bit of a hothead. He doesn't think he should sit, but he is NOT an everyday player. I saw it with the Red Sux & A's. He was however, all that was left, the best available, when the O's signed him as the 4th OFer. He was also affordable. Can't fault them there in any case.
However, his attitude & hustle issues have been well described here for most of the season. The "last few days" makes the line too little too late a huge understatement. I hope he is gone next year.
Gibbons gone too, but in his case it's a different reason. The HgH crap that he swore "who me, never!" over & his endless injuries & lack of production. He's denials remind me of the Police Inspector in Casablanca...

Roch, what is the headcount on the Amber season?

Roch,
I don't think anyone is surprised that Trembley and MacPhail aren't ready to hand the SS position to Luis Hernandez, who has earned a longer look, but it is a long way from proving he is the answer. I think we all need to remember than just about any SS with range looked good in comparison to Tejada's limited defensive abilities now. Freddy Bynum looked good compared to Tejada, and no, he is definitely not the answer. But I'll bet a top defensive SS would have headed off 25 or 30 big innings this year -- maybe saved 50 or more runs -- which is as valuable as driving in 50 runs.

Bottom line for me, however, is that this offseason the Os needs are exactly the same as they have been for the past 4 years.

1. A cleanup hitter
2. A top starting pitcher (a #1 or a #2)
3. An everyday center fielder.

Except we can now we can add to that:
4. An everyday shortstop who can make all the plays and hit decently

(p.s. I'll bet Jack Wilson is available at a reasonable price.)

Tom D,

I have no problem with 5- or 6-year deals to guys who will still be worth the money at the end of their contracts. I would give Dunn a 6-year deal in a heartbeat (but he probably won't be available). What I object to is paying big money to guys who will be declining before the team can realistically be expected to contend. I know that you and others think this team has a chance to be good in '08 and '09. I disagree --.500 yes, contending, no way. There are too many holes and not enough realistic expectation of filling the holes before the next two years, and by then Hunter will be taking the inevitable nosedive.

There are two problems with these long contracts to declining players. . One is that the declining veteran blocks prospects. (The O's don't have many of these now, but we can hope). The other problem is that paying big money to underproducing players means there's less money to spend when the guy you really want comes along. I realize it's PA's money, not ours, but obviously there's a limit.

Besides, Hunter is good, but he's not THAT good. He looks attractive now because he stands out in a very thin crop. The O's would be be much better off signing Patterson. Yes there's a difference in production, but that difference isn't going to make the O's a winning team next season. And it's not a difference that would justify the $80-100 million they will end up paying him.

That's a LOT of money for a guy who isn't even a top tier player, and who is not going to be nearly as good in three or four years.
.

I like some of Trembley's candor but I have to disagree with public show of thanks to Walker & Bradford. That seems like grandstanding to me-why not just thank those guys behind closed doors. By the same token, his roster assessment/needs/speculation about Cabrera not being in the rotation are remarks not for public comsumption. He stands a good chance of alienating his players and he seems to be going against his principles that he laid out when he was hired.
Of course, we fans like to get the juicy details but he has to face these guys on a day-to-day basis. The O's already have some players that seem to be hyper-senstive so why fuel the fire?

I understand that Luis Hernandez will be a downgrade on power numbers, but do the Orioles think this guy can be a .280 hitter with some speed on bases and very good to excellent defense?? That should be enough to make him an everyday in my mind.

On the other hand, if they believe he will be a .240 hitter at this level...then maybe he in our bench player for the infield...

I acknowedge that OBP of .298 is very bad for CF.

I also know that CP is one of only 3 players I did not fast forward through or go to the beer line during their at bats or times on base. (MArkakis at bats and Roberts ABs and on base being the others)

He is fun to watch.

With all the other holes, I am not making CF one of the top 5 priorities, much less top 1 or 2.

Despite Trembley's desire for a "proven" closer, I believe we can follow the Billyball approach of putting good strike ratio guy out there and take our chances. If he blows 30% of his save opportunities (around league worst) versus 15% (top 5 in league), it will cost you, what, 5 games? Let's take our chances given we are a .500 team next year if lucky.

Remember Alec Baldwin saying "Put that down. Coffee is for closers."

Well guess what? "Closers are for champions". Everyone else just doesnt need one so darn badly.

My top priorities would be:

1. Rid the team of anyone who is liable to be steroid -linked in the next two years. (assumes there are some suspected )

2. Rid the team of anyone who does not exhibit hustle and professionalism and team-first attitude. Exhibit it to the fans, not keep it a big secret Jay Payton. Why? Because we want to like these guys during the rebuilding.

3. Improve the Bullpen - charts posted previously prove what was plainly visible. Bullpen slumps mushroomed and killed this team this year.

4. More productive left field. If that means Mora and Tejada move, ok, but beware even worse defensive results. Better to go sign or trade for production there.

5. Better than average veteran Starter, if we can get one. We don't really need another Benson. Something better than that if we can get them to come here. Will push next best starter to the bullpen as an added plus.

All of these are doable. All are along the right path for getting better over time. None break the bank.

And the collection of them is sufficient to make us worth watching, although wtill short of contending.

last night, Joe Angel said that Jays starting pitcher Banks had secured about 500 tickets for family and friends. does that mean the other 1,000 people there were O's fans?

on another note, i still think it's a bit premature to assume Hernandez can be an everyday shortstop. Some say that they can live with his zero power and mediocre hitting because of his defense. This team is already anemic offensively, what would a slick fielder do exactly? Defense is great, but you cannot win if you don't score any runs.

now that he's hit a HR, the O's (fans) seem ready to dismiss Tejada as a starter and/or player for the 2008 team. Let's not jump the gun here. If i he hits another HR, will we name him O's MVP?? let's be reasonable.

Seems like you're getting back into it.. second wind type stuff. After the season ends and you've collected yourself, how about doing a written piece on the state of the franchise... from the FO to the team to the farm system. I for one respect your honesty and forthright approach... are you up to the challenge ?

I've seen a couple people mention them not being fond of Trembley publicly "thanking" Walker and Bradford.... Perhaps I read way more into things than I should, but I took it as a message from Trembley to some of the other "veterans" about being willing to go above and beyond your assigned "job" and NOT complaining/jawing about it.

Mark C-- some very good points. One that stands out is the "likeability" issue. I realize the Nationals also have a below average team, but from what I have seen they are fairly likeable and fans can connect with them. Who on the Orioles do any of you connect to?

Even the guys who seem nice are extremely quiet. Millar and Walker seem fun but a bit odd. Others are just plain surly. Maybe its the losing but none of them have radio shows. None of them do non-mandatory appearances that I know of other than B-Rob for his charities. They just don't seem like they care about the community. Trembley and some of the older guys do, but the message has not been put out that being part of this town is expected or even valued in the least. Is it that difficult to show up at a restaurant and get paid to talk about the game you play?

This team never bother to do the little things right, so I am never surprised when they f up the big things. Devil's in the details.

Tracy - I think you make a very good point.

It is interesting to see who Trembley has made special mention of in the last couple weeks and who has not.

(Plus, it makes it hard for the guy the manager just cited to NOT go above and beyond when asked.... I like a little deviousness now and again)

I know Mora hasn't had the best of seasons...unfortunately, so do all the other teams - he isn't going anywhere. The O's couldn't give him and that contract away. Maybe left field? It was just poor timing signing him when they did. Par for the course the past 10 years.

Assuming the Orioles are going to have to dip into the free agent pool to improve the club, wouldn't it make sense for them to look into signing JAPANESE players? We have made no inroads there since the Matsui's and Ichiro's have come along.

The Birds could, it would seem to me, more easily pay "confederate" money to get a solid Japanese pitcher or OF'er here -- maybe even someone in the prime of their career -- than hoping a Hunter or Jones would sign here.

On that note, expanding their Dominican presence would be on my list as well.

Keep in mind a team has to "compete" to sign the quality free agents -- why would a Huner or Jones come to the second worst team in baseball?