Interesting stuff Roch. I like Segui's candid comments. I don't agree with him that hGH is "completely separate from the steroid issue," however. It's a banned substance, just like 'roids, even if it creates different characteristics in players.

Also, the splitting hairs over when hGH was banned is ridiculous. It's not like people openly discussed their hGH use when it wasn't banned. It clearly violated the spirit of competition, if not the letter of the rules (remember how defensive McGwire got when he was found using creatine--before it was banned?).

But most important is the lack of a capital "h" in hGH. What if you have to start a sentence with it? Such as:

"hGH found in Fahey's locker; MLB officials unconcerned."

Or:

"hGH could cure strained oblique, experts say; Bedard, Guthrie intrigued."

It just doesn't look right at the start of a sentence. What's the right move here? Oh wait--I forgot that the Sun actually has a grammar blog. I'll check over there.

"He's able to squat 285 pounds after being unable to go higher than 135 - a weight he'd do once on a good day because he couldn't bend." Um, sure sounds to me like hGH makes one stronger. (Or is it something in the water where Segui lives?) So, are we left to infer that people take hGH simply to recover from injuries as opposed to increase strength? Hmm...

Glad to see that Segui is still alive and well...Boy, nothing personal against him but his signing was one of our worst. I mean what was it? 27 Mill over 4 years,with most of it spent on the DL for various ailments-was there are strained oblique somewhere?
I've read with interest all the suggestions about what the O's should do over the off-season but we all know that nothing much is going to happen. It's easy to say trade deadwood like: Baez, Payton, Mora etc but what team would want these guys? They are basically starters for us but all the above would be fringe/bench/mop-up guys for most teams and they come with bloated contracts. The O's won't eat the contracts so welcome back!
Dipping into the free-agent market has burned us in the past because we signed mediocre players on the downside -see players noted above- and the premium players want no part of Baltimore, even at big $$$-see Konerko,etc..
Promotion from within is always a noble approach in any business but the cupboard is pretty bare right now. Witness the failures of Olson, Liz, HOey etc. They aren't going to just get better over the winter and while some may be MLB ready, it won't be for a couple of years.
Our only hope then is for the walking wounded to get better over the off season and cross our fingers. Everyone knows that the key is pitching and I think we have the potential to have a decent starting staff in 2008.
As far as the rest of the team-that's another matter!

Now that we have Fernando Cabrera, the Orioles future is obvious. We need to trade for Asdrubal Cabrera to play 2B, Orlando Cabrera for SS, Miguel Cabrera for 3B, and Melky Cabrera for CF. I'm probably missing someone, possibly named Cabrera. It would make all of our posting much easier, since we could just complain or praise "Cabrera".

Can he still hit? If he can walk he can take Gibbon's place on the roster.

Good work Roch!

marc c - Tejada said, under oath, that he gave himself B-12 injections and he sometimes, at their request, gave injections to team mates.. You are absolutely correct.

But you need to go take some refresher courses on the law. Injecting B-12 is not now nor has it ever been illegal in the US.

In fact, self injecting B-12 is very common. I had an Aunt who gave her self injetions for years for a nerve condition. The DEA never once kicked her door in.

Nice try, however.

Roch, great post and thank you for presenting some facts about a seriously misunderstood (and I think that is mostly intentional) subject.

The Sun story also does a decent job presenting the facts and sifting out some of the urban legend.

I think Segui has it mostly right, too. If you look at his situation - unable to squat 135 lbs regularly he can now hit 285, you see the reason why athletes take it.

The myth about steroids is that all they do is allow you to recover quicker so you can workout harder longer. But what steroids do is grow muscle.

hGH, however, provides that recovery ability. hGH allows a guy with chronically bad knees like Segui to function relatively normally - although he likely would not be able to handle playing baseball with those knees.

Imagine that benefit on a healthy guy.

Medicine has always been a step behind the BALCOs. It is likely that the interest in hGH is driven more by the chemists than the users. And it is likely because the chemists have learned something about hGH.

Many "experts" in the medical field still claim Creatine has no benefit despite numerous serious studies to the contrary.

I am betting that, now that hGH is getting attention and some serious tests will finally be done, medicine will discover that hGH really does work to some degree.

By then, the chemists will have moved onto another means of cheating.

I think we all just root for that uniform now, not the humans in them.... with a VERY few exceptions.

Gibby , Raffy, Segui ,& Grimsley should move to Mexico & open up a "factory". R. Lopez & the Chief could serve as "consultants" & help with the language barrier.

Whether its roids or something to help speed up recovery, it's still dangerous to their health & known to be banned.
If Segui needs to still do squats to count his money & can't because of the pain, suggest this to him Roch... it's legal & cheaper.... ADVIL.

Anyone who has spent enough time in a gym or lifts weights regularly, can tell the difference between someone just working out alot, using powders, protein shakes, or even Creatine vs. the guys using Juice. (BY the way, Creatine has been thought to have some bad side affects with the kidneys & heart) It's very obvious from the rapid size increase who is juicing, the fact they don't lift nearly as often or do as many reps as the other guys, but still get bigger & some of them have acne in places most men don't after college age.
NO one can tell me the trainers, the coaches, or even the writers that see them every day, can't tell which players are doing it. At worst , you could have a fairly good idea....

I commend Segui for trying to make a point about the differences between hGH and anabolic steroids needing to be known before people make judgements about their use. However, it really doesn't matter what the drug does or doesn't do as they are both on MLB's banned substances list. Marijuana and Cocaine have different affects on the people who take them, but if you get caught with either you're still going to jail.

What I can't for the life of me figure out is why a guy with horrible knees that cause him such pain and discomfort would be bothering with trying to squat 285 pounds in the first place!! Isn't that a little, how shall I say....DUH!

you cant connect HGH with getting stronger directly. Ye, guys with chronic health issues can't stay in the weight room long enough to get strong. I take it non of you do squats... 135lb is nothing for anyone who does the exercise twice a week for a couple months. Gibbons, like Segui, is another chronically injured oriole. I almost don't blame these guys, baseball is their livelihood. Put yourself in Gibbons shoes, cant stay healthy, just got a big contract, of course he wants to live up to it. I think theres a general attitude in baseball that HGH isnt a steroid but just something to get you healthy again... not saying its right or wrong.

Tom -

Trying not to take offense at the tone of your suggestions that I need refresher courses in the law. I was simply trying to answer your question from your earlier post - I wasn't arguing, just listing the only other incident I knew where a guy took a "banned substance". I think I even said I wasn't sure if that was what you were counting as banned.

I believe (still believe, despite your Aunt's lack of DEA visitors) that B-12 injections in this country require a doctor's perscription. Having them shipped in from outside the country, using them without a prescription and distributing them to others without a license to prescribe is all, I believe, illegal.

Illegal is boulean, of course. It is not a matter of degree.

If, for example, we were to find out that Corey Patterson was obtaining Vicadin or Percoset or Codeine from outside the country without a prescription, meaning illegally, and taking it frequently (100 times in a season) to get a performance edge and handing it out to teammates illegally, I would think he was doing something noteworthy under the category of "using a banned substance". Perhaps the category is not a perfect fit, but there it was.

Anyway, whether or not B-12 has any impact on performance, we do know that Miggy was intentionally breaking the law to get what he felt was a performance edge without worrying about the fact that it was illegal. And, I would be surprised if the illegal use of prescription drugs wasn't covered somewhere in the basic code of conduct language.

So, yeah, there was at least one other Oriole who kind of falls into the category of banned substance user. In my opinion, anyway.

Is there some reason that people are focusing on the hGH when he also allegedly recieved anabolics/markers as well?