I don’t think that John Maine, when he was here, was that highly regarded (he clearly was not valued as highly as Bedard, Cabrera, Loewen, and Penn). Based on what I had seen and heard about Maine, I thought they weren’t losing much in the deal for Kris Benson. So far, I look to be pretty wrong about that, as do the Orioles. If Maine turns into a regular 15+ game winner, this will raise more questions about the O’s ability to evaluate talent and nurture talent when they have it. The main question will be, how could the perpetually struggling O’s allow a great young pitcher like Maine to get away from them for an average pitcher who they got one season out of? Another important question that might not be asked is, even if the O’s had kept Maine, would they have been able to get what the Mets have gotten out of him?

I’m not advocating trading Tejada, but I think what the O’s were offered last year for Tejada is the most they could get for him. I don’t see them getting the same value they could have if they decide to deal him this year, particularly if they are shopping him around.

What about Hayden Penn? Is he getting blown up in triple A?

Agreed Guthrie should take the 5th spot for now...since we're not expected to go back to Cleveland this season he should be golden! Unless they decide to put Burres in the 5th spot and recall Birkins so that we still have a long rightie and a long leftie out of the pen....not to mention 3 lefties in our starting rotation. At least, unlike last season, there are viable options!

I do appreciate Jaret being a fighter and wanting to go out there and give it all he can despite the pain (so anti- Javy Lopez of him), but he's not doing the team or himself any good at the point trying to pitch in the condition he's in. IMO, he was a risk worth taking to see if he couldn't give us a full year or at least long enough to see what Penn and Olson could do with some time in AAA...but he needs to be on the DL, plain and simple.

That sucks for Bell...this was the EXACT opportunity he only needed to wait for when he went to Norfolk - now he's not going to get it.

That was one car race I would have loved to have seen at the finish. Full beer cans hurled at the winner, best part of the race. Anyone the count know, where ther more PBR's thrown than Old Milwaukee's? I'll bet plenty of good ole boys shed a few tears in the infield at the carnage on the track at the end of the race...
Regardless, for those fans to waste a month's pay & their primary source of nourishment & recreational stimulation on that display of loathing says alot. I saw that Dale Jr asked them to throw rolls of towel paper instead if they had to throw anything. Doesn't he know the typical Nascar fan probably doesn't waste funds on such an extavagant item as TP when there is a perfectly good Sears catalog handy at home?

Guthrie isn't the first person to have an adverse reaction to any amount of time spent in Cleveland, don't think any less of him for that reaction.

Just where in the hell has Bell been putting that finger for it to be infected this badly? It's been almost a month now!

Roch, I disagree with you on Guthrie being in the starting rotation. I think Brian Buress should get a shot at being in the rotation. He pitched as a starter in the minor leagues. He has had great numbers so far this season only giving up two runs and he held down the high powered Indians offense yesterday to no runs in 4 innings while striking out 6. I see why the Indians gave up on Guthrie. He isn't that good.

I think that Maine is way better off in the National League, where the parks are bigger, and there is no DH. Just my opinion, but I don't think he would have had the kind of success he's having if he was still an Oriole. Still, at least he's healthy. I'm more for Burres being in the rotation, though I see the point that Guthrie seems better at starting while Burres has been great as the long reliever. We'll see what happens, but I'm expecting Wright to be put on the DL at some point today or tomorrow.

Is the Wright-Guthrie swap official, Roch?

Or, are we bringing anybody up from AAA? I also feel for Rob Bell because he's the guy who deserved to be called up when Wright will again go onto the DL. I hope that finger injury heals quick.

Let's see if our bats and pitching roar against the Tigers.

I believe Penn is on the DL with a sore forearm and bone spurs (though, apparently, the bone spurs don't do anything), and he's rehabbing. Tough luck with Bell, he looked pretty good for this exact sort of thing in the spring (not that that means anything).
I'd stop harping on the John Maine stuff. It's over, guys, and we can't do anything about it. Let's just focus on what we've got, not what we don't. I mean, if Tejada got traded and then was spectacular, would we collectively droop our heads over that, too? No use in it, really.

Of all the pitchers vying for the final spots in the bullpen, Bell had the best stuff: poise on the mound, a fastball with movement (unlike Guthrie's heat, which is flat and, well, his numbers speak for themselves right now) and a changeup he could throw for strikes in virtually any situation. That he's not a part of this club -- be it starting or releiving, short or long -- is completely beyond me.

Two quick points. First, amen to CRB's post on Maine, Benson and talent evaluation. It's one thing to struggle to develop your own talent, and something else to struggle to understand what you have. Every team makes mistakes, but dumping Maine because he was a soft-tosser was a ridiculous move that we are now paying the price for.

And second, everyone who pays any attention at all knew Jaret Wright's arm was going to blow up sooner rather than later. This revolting development should come as no surprise.

Big Pink - Hayden is on the DL. Let's hope he's in that 5th spot in the rotation by Memorial Day.

I love the fact that Jaret Wright is a fighter. Let's get him on the DL and get him healthy. He's hurting the team when he can only go 2-3 innings and wears out the bullpen. Get Wright on the DL, and have Guthrie pitch in the rotation. I'm much more interested in seeing how Guthrie can handle the rotation than I am seeing a guy who won't be with the Orioles next year (Wright). Call up Bell to take Wright's spot when he goes on the DL, too! Let's see what he's got!

See, it's an organizational thing...the O's batters don't take pictches and the O's pitchers can't get ahead of the hitters. A perfect combination. Explains a lot.
I wonder...if Cal were in charge of things, would the whole organization be focused on fundamentals? The O's seem to lack the fundamentals of the fundamentals.
I also wonder what Cal says in private when he looks at this team and this organization.

Penn is hurting, Bell's got the finger, Olson has his own set of probs right now so I guess it's Guthrie.... just don't let him pitch in Cleveland. His past weekend's performances weren't anything to right home about unless you're a sadist.

Very good points about Maine. If he remained an Oriole he would not have a sub 2.00 ERA. Period. In the time that it has taken the Orioles to groom our very average rotation, other stars around the league have developed and succeeded. Unfortunately, we let the minors go into disrepair and neglected other aspects of the organization for the better part of a decade. Except for extremely rare cases, our prospects get hurt or never meet expectations. For a team that should have gotten a lot of draft picks by now, it's been pretty slim pickings.

Did Wright or any of the folks we run through here ever have to take a physical? I could have told you his arm was being held together by Scotch tape. Did our team physician get his degree in the Carribean?

At a certain point you have to recognize that all signs point to the top. The national press has gone from mocking us to feeling sorry that we have to put up with Pete. He has driven this organization into the ground.

What does it feel like to have all of that power and to be such a one-man wrecking crew? What would it actually take for him to realize objectively that as the leader of the Orioles franchise he has failed miserably and that the O's are unlikely to compete while he is at the helm? I almost forgot how good he is at rationalizing everything. He provides jobs and a "competitive" ballclub. Oh yeah, and he personally isn't failing. He does quite okay for himself though he mentions that his closed books would say otherwise. Quite a martyr. Turn the reigns over if you are making so many sacrifices. Wouldn't want the burden of owning a sports franchise to wear you down.

Compairing Britton to Bedard, Penn, Cabrera and Loewen is unfair. Those guys in theory are supposed to be front line starting pitchers or top prospects. Britton is maybe a notch or so below. A lot of what I read before the Wright trade was that Britton was a solid Major League guy. He had a 3.30 ERA or so for the O's last year, in that bullpen that is a remarkable number.

I think on some level talent evaluation has been a problem since Gillick left. We always seem to get the short end in trades.

Finally, I was glad to see Bedard isn't taking hi 6+ ERA and lousy start to hard. Buster Olney links a Post column in his blog, where Bedard says "Who cares" in reference to his start this year.

I think the Orioles would be greatly served by scouting future NASCAR races for potential pitchers. Them boys can toss a full can & hit a moving target so a baseball over a plate would be a cakewalk for 'em.

Personally, I wish Guthrie had stayed in the rotation to begin with and Wright had been put in the bullpen after coming off the DL. If he ever gets his shoulder to decency, he could strengthen the bullpen, since he'll never go more than 6 innings in a start again.

I REALLY wish Benson was healthy. He could have given us more stability in the rotation (kinda like what Trachsel is doing now, but hopefully with less walks).

Rob Bell is on Norfolk's DL. The orioles don't want to risk losing Todd Williams so we won't see him in the foreseeable future. You are right Roch, guthrie needs to be in the starting rotation with Burress the long man. I think the biggest problem with Orioles is the hitting especially with risp. You should almost never swing at the first pitch either especially after your own pitcher has a long inning. He needs to rest up a bit. With Orioles playing the way they are and NFL draft just taken place, I am now itching for football season to start.

CRB. I shared your opinion on Maine. I saw him pitch a few times and wasn't impressed. He couldn't break a pane of glass with his fastball and he looked scared out there. I compare him to Josh Towers; so far this year, I am wrong. Maine is unhittable but a lot of guys started out like that and came down to earth. Coppinger/Driskill come to mind...
In any event, the Benson trade looked good for us at the time and infact, it was mainly Benson for Julio, with Maine a throw in.
These things happen and maybe Benson comes back with us and gives us 4-5 years and Maine washes out!!
We all suspected that Wright was going to end up on the DL. We should set up a pool to guess when! I can appreciate the 'hero' bit on his part but it doesn't do the team any good.
By process of elimination, I guess Guthrie is in the rotation, as Wright isn't going to be pitching any time soon.
Being somewhat of an optmist, maybe we catch a break and Guthrie siezes this opportunity and wins 12 games...
Markakis took advantage of his opportunity so maybe Guthrie will too. I'm not sure how long he's been around but this might be his final time to prove he can start in the bigs. You know how many players moan about not getting a shot? Any pitchers in the O's system with a warm pulse can't say that!!
Bring it on Jeremy!!

Hey Roch, I know you would like to be traveling with the team & I think most of us would like that as well, but you have to have mixed feelings about missing the Cleve/Det in late April trip.

Maine was hitting the low 90s with his fastball Sunday. That was in the 6th or 7th too. I watched a few innings of baseball on the OTHER NON HD MASN.

Football? I heard the ravens are scouring all the local Home Depots for step stools so the new QB can see over the line.

If losing John Maine meant losing Jorge Julio, let Maine win the Cy Young this year for all I care.

Hmmm, Wright has been placed on the DL and Birkins was recalled.....wonder if we aren't going to see Burres in the starting spot after all. Wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to have two lefty long relievers - then again this is the O's so I don't suppose it needs to make sense in order for it to happen.

It is important to note that Britton was sent out by the Yankees who, conversly, have the worst bullpen in baseball. I would say that we basicly lost nothing in the trade.

Maine was brought up by the O's in 2004 and 2005. In 2005 he made 1/2 dozen starts as a replacement for an injured starter (Rodrigo? El Sid?) and went 2 - 3 with an era over 6. the O's felt that he did not throw hard enough but, mostly, that he did not have the makeup to be a starter in MLB. (In his starts, he pitched OK then would get himself in trouble and fall apart.)

At the time of the trade for Benson it seemed that every one was thrilled to get a quality pitcher like Benson for so little cost (and I need to admit that I was never a fan of the Benson trade no matter who we gave up - Benson is a career .500 guy and I do not see him as a step forward - if we really NEED to have a .500 pitcher in the rotation we should have kept Rodrigo.....)

Maine was the #6 starter for the Mets last year - he had only 15 starts, but his big break came when the Mets pitcher's started to break down late in the season and he pitched much better than expected in his 1 post-season start.

No one with the Mets expected him to pitch as well as he has this season. When Pedro cames back, Maine will be the # 4 starter and if Hernandez comes back he will be #5.

RICHIE are you aff your rocker? Thats all Guthrie did in the minors was start and he smoked teams in the tuffest minor division in the league. In 06 he went a 1 run complete game for AAA buffalo and over all 9 and 5 record. Out of the bullpen has never been his comfort zone. The A's have twice the powered offence as the indians and you saw what Guthrie did to them out of the start. If Wright says he is fine, waite another month and then he may be healthy enough to put in a couple of innings a month out of the penn, any where else he is going to hurt us.

go O's

scooped ya.... :-)

The Orioles placed Jaret Wright on the DL Monday with shoulder soreness, according to Sports Network. Wright had just returned from the DL on Sunday but had to leave his start after three innings. The team recalled Kurt Birkins from Triple-A Norfolk to replace Wright on the roster .The O's haven't said who will replace Wright in the rotation, but they could just slide Jeremy Guthrie, who made a spot start for Wright last week, back in there.

Birkins???

The problem with bringing Rob Bell up is that he has not pitched yet this season. It is hard to pitch effectively from the DL.

Penn is on the AAA DL with bone spurs in his elbow and is in Florida on rehab.

I agree that Guthrie should move into the rotation. Burres has shown that he can handle the long relief role. Guthrie pitched well in his one start but has bombed in the long relief role.

I agree that Wright is tough and he is an admirable guy for his ability to handle pain, but he is of no help to the O's. He is Chris Benson with more mileage. We should let him rehab, throw some innings in Norfolk and then release him so he can get a job with a team that needs another mediocre pitcher.

Meanwhile, the options are not so great in the minors - Olsen and Liz are not ready and Norfolk's pitching is a mess.

And, at this point, speed off the bench is not helping the team any. I would still rather see then send Bynum down and bring up Knott. Except, I think the O's realize that if they bring Knott up they will have to play him, which means Millar or Gibbons will have to sit more - WAIT! How is that a problem????

Just a note on the entry from a previous topic about Markakis.

Markakis swinging on the first pitch after 2 consecutive walks has nothing to do with Crowley!!!!!!!!

Markakis is highly regarded for his batting eye and regularly works the count to his favor. I am not certain that Crowley deserves al of the credit for this, but the Crow certainly does not teach Oriole hitters to hack away.

That the Yankees work the count better than the Orioles has more to do with the guys they have on the team than the hitting coach. The Yankee hitting coach is in his 1st year after Rick Down was not retained - you can hardly give him credit. Down was the Oriole hitting coach before Crowley and they did not seem to get any more walks then.

The Yankees have a number of highly paid stars. The pitches that are called balls to Jeter, ARod, Matsui and Damon would probably not be called balls to someone wearing a different uniform or with less name recognition.

But the fact they Yankees can work the count has not helped them in any of the last 6 post seasons.

If Markakis swung at the first pitch you would have to assume it looked pretty good. Although I agree, after two straight walks you generally want the hitter to be a little more patient. But Carmona did not exactly throw 8 straight balls.

You have to give Carmona SOME credit. He had 18 ground ball outs against a fly ball hitting team.

Cal? Cal?

Cal isn't going to walk through that door and even if he did so what? He has never coached, never managed. The O's had a lot of teams with bad fundamentals when Cal played, 86-88 for example and the last few years he was active as well.

He was a great player sure, but there is no reason to bring him up now.

"But the fact they Yankees can work the count has not helped them in any of the last 6 post seasons."

Sure helped them get there tho.

TomD. I agree with you re: umps callling balls on pitches to Yankee hitters that are strikes to anyone else(except for Big Papi who has the smallest strike zone ever-no small feat considering he's 300 lbs!).
With respect to those saying O's hitters should just take more pitches, to me, it depends on the situation. Sure, if a pitcher is wild, then maybe take a couple but even then, not necessarily. A guy can grove one if he's just walked 2-3 guys and that first pitch may be the best one of the AB. I'm not pretending to be Ted Williams or anything, but the biggest key to hitting is recognizing 'your' pitch and attacking it. There is probably such a thing as being too selective.
I don't think anyone will accuse Vlad Guerrero of seeing a lot of pitches yet he's had some decent success(wink!). Tejada is like that to some extent, except that he's seem to have lost some pop but I don't think changing him to a Bobby Abreu at this point is going to do anybody any good.
I guess we can only hope that the law of averages will prevail and our guys start hitting like their track records suggest.

Working the count may have helped the Yankees get into post-season, but what helped the Marlins, the Cardinals (twice), the Astros and the Tigers? (And, to a certain extent, the White Sox....)

It wasn't hitting.

Maybe there is something to pitching and defense after all?

Again...Williams was passed over with that same 0.00 ERA in Norfolk .He pitched 2 innings on friday, no runs, then turned around on Sat. , came in with 2 inherited runners and 1 out, pitched one pitch ,a ground ball double play and he is still in Norfolk ??? How good do the O's think they are that are?? Please trade Williams for an outfielder with an arm..and a bigger bat. The scouts in the IL must be shaking their heads...why is he still here ??

they never gave maine a chance here. anybody that throws mid 90s and is in his early 20s should be a keeper, not a throw in.

I thought I read in the Sun Bell has recovered and is pitching again after his finger infection. Why not give him a chance to pitch ; did he
not pitch effectively in spring training?