Although pre-season camp is importsant, it's time for the NFL to shorten it. Add two regular season games and play the players. It's better to play for real then keep getting players hurt in times that really do not matter

Hopefully nothing serious he appears to be something special and emerging as one of my new favorite defensive players.

maybe johns "hard ball" camp isnt what the ravens needed after all, it seems another fight breaks out and another player gets carted off the field every day. for billick being such a softy and having "camp cream puff" the ravens sure had great records in november and december. hmm was this a mistake? harbaugh has no clue what he is doing. by the way, there is no open qb competition. its smiths job to lose, ask any raven... harbaugh is a mistake and a joke

the problem isn't pre-season; it's idiot rookie coaches who don't have the foresight to see how long the season is and how much the regular season beats these guys up. I knew once I heard Harbaugh was running an "old school" camp with lots of hitting early and often that it would only lead to trouble. What guys like Harbaugh and Preston skip over is that running that kind of camp only gets guys hurt. Period. Call it Camp Creampuff all you want but it's way more important to keep guys fresh and uninjured in camp so they'll be healthy enough for when it counts during the season. So far we've had what, three days of full squad camp? And we've already had the starting left tackle and starting defensive tackle get carted off on successive days. We need these guys on the field in practice, John, not in the trainer's room.

I've always been a Billick supporter, but wether it's Billicks way or Harbaughs way the ultimate responsibilty lies with the player to be ready. Injuries happen regardless, Jamal was lost for the season in training camp under Billick. I have nothing against Harbaugh but I wish Billick was still the coach, never the less Harbaugh is the coach and I'll support him 100%.

Wow --- Harbaugh hasn't even coached a regular season game - a preseason game in fact - for the Ravens and already he "doesn't have a clue?"

Seriously?

Harbaugh's already a "mistake and a joke" because someone got hurt in practice?

Really? - That NEVER happened before under anyone - even Billick.

How about wait until he loses a game - let's say when the Ravens are 1-1 and THEN say we've had enough of the long and tortuous Harbaugh era. Maybe the Ravens can get 4 coaches during the season.

Maybe Billick's available as his replacement.

I disagree with the concerns. The Ravens needed a tougher camp. Penalties and injuries occur because this team has been out of shape for awhile. They lose their cool because they are tired, hot, unable to cope with the elements. They are undisciplined because they have not had to go through adversity at all prior to an important game (which they all are in a 16 game season).

We have had an extremely high injury rate in the past 3 of 4 seasons. Part of that is age, but every team has older players. We have young players getting hurt at a high rate because they are not in shape.

Are you surprised McGahee can't get through a practice having skipped all the team workouts? Voluntary or not, the guys that do it are the guys in shape. Some teams have 100% attendance at those. We do not. I suspect that will change, and the guys that cannot stay healthy will not be on the team long no matter who they are.

And I'll close by saying it right here - if Suggs is out more than 2 weeks, he will be hurt this year during the season - bet the farm on that one.

What are these players made of glass? This is ridiculous!! Their football players not golfers. I don't blame Harbaugh for having a tougher camp. You can't predict the future, players can get hurt doing wind sprints. I think the Ravens have too many pansies on the team. What's up with them not releasing any information on injuries? As fans I think we have the right to know.

You guys that are complaining that the camp is too hard and is getting people hurt are the same ones who complained about "camp cream-puff"

Make-up your minds. I have to agree with Jeff, shorten it and maybe add 1 or 2 more games to the regular schedule.

This is football guys, not ballet. It's amazing guys could do it in the 60's 70's and even the early 80's but now all the sudden it's too tough on these guys. Gimme a break. If no injuries had occured yet then you all would be praising Harbaugh for whipping these guys into shape, but unfortunately injuries happen. Also, I remember Jamal Lewis and other key guys getting hurt under Billick's watch so all it takes is the wrong cut or stepping on someone's ankle, this stuff just happens, but Harbaugh is EXACTLY what this team needed, they needed more discipline!

Boy they sure were fresh in November and December last year huh? How bout in 06'?? Billick had to go, no question

Give Harbaugh a chance, this camp has been about instilling discipline weve sorely lacked the last 8 years.

So Geof, if the cause of all these injuries is "Camp Hardball," how do you account for the amount of injuries the Ravens sustained last year, with "Camp Creampuff?" The fact is injuries happen, no matter what. With so much weight being moved around and such ridiculous speeds, people will get hurt.

Hey Geof and Dave, last I checked, "camp cupcake" led us to a 5-11 season last year with unconditioned players that ended up getting hurt because of it. Lay off the new coaching staff until we've actually gone through a full year. I'd rather have them bust their butts right now and get into shape, even if it means some people getting banged up. At least that way if someone is hurt now, while their getting into shape, they'll be back sooner than if it happened in the first couple weeks of the regular season and were gone longer.

It's not the difference in Harbaugh's or Billick's approach that leads to these injuries. The players in the NFL now train all year round, something the players in the 60's, 70's and 80's were not required to do. The constant stress on their bodies is what is causing the problems. It would make since to shorten the preseason by a game or two and consider making them part of the regular season so at least the snaps they take actually count.

you guys do make some valid points. but i still disagree with how things are being done. haloti ngata and now kelly gregg are potentially big losses. and we will see just how much you like a tough team with no players left on it when we are losing every game. ray lewis and bart scott have both said that a football player only has a certain amount of hits his body can take in a year. agree or disagree with that all you want but they play the game so i assume they would know. i am excited about the new season and i think the new regime will be interesting to watch, but on a team that is full of veterans like this... harbaugh is not the best option. i think they should have either given billick one more year with his team in hopes that key injuries wouldnt happen again.. or just completly reload with harbaugh and a new team and new qb. start fresh. and on the last note... last year for as bad as we were and as bad as billick was you have to look at the fact that a few plays in a few games could have been the difference between 10-6 and 5-11. such as : missed field goal against dolphins, heap interfearence call in bengals game, the "time out" against the pats, the missed but then made field goal against the browns etc... now i know a few plays could have also helped the ravens finish 0-16 as well but last season was about injuries and bad luck. and under normal circumstances with the exception of a few (3) seasons, the ravens have excelled during november and december and have the record to show it.

I'll take a tough mini camp for a couple million. It seems that no matter the coach and no matter the training camp, somebody on here is unhappy and has to complain. This is freaking football, injuries happen when bodies collide.