This is the year of the pitcher in MLB excluding the hapless O's. Who will be help accountable. NO ONE and we will go on with our losing ways.

Dan,

Hey Dan, don't sugar coat it. Yes the Orioles are a train wreck again and the operative question is, what now? We certainly need to look at our scouting and player development because we are not producing major league ready players despite our high draft selection year after year. It is time for Cal to take over operation of the franchise.

Ouch. It was painful enough before you posted those.

Thanks Dan and all of the Sun writers. It can't be easy to have the job of writing about this train wreck of a team week after week, year after year. At least as fans we have the option of just ignoring them for a while. How many different ways can you come up with to say "this team stinks?" Of all the dismal years in this long run of frustration, this may well be the worst because most of us thought, after last years thrilling finish to the season and the off-season acquisitions, that this was finally going to be the year when the losing would end. That's all, just an end to the losing. There weren't many here who actually thought the O's would be competitive, just that finally, at long last, the losing would stop. Instead it's like watching a re-run of the lowlights of past seasons. Lousy pitching, both starting and relief, lousy defense, and no runs. They fill the bases with runners, but can't get them home, when they get a lead they can't hold it, and if they get behind the game is over.
This is the result of 4 years of rebuilding?

this season is getting depressing fast. i feel like we haven't even seen the worst yet as we are likely to dump at least one of our decent bats. will being an o's fan ever have its ups?

4 Years. What Magic did everyone expect after 4 years? Thhis organization was allowed to get to below zero. How no continutity of management,poor drafting based on dollars to spend and eliminating certain agewnts, revloving door coaching, poorest off season facilities, ........ We are lucky we have imprved as much as we have with Andy, Buck and Jordan.
It is still the PERCEPTION that is killing the O's (Andy). The drive to bring a meaningful talent from free agent depends on this. So we need wins. But to win we need better talent on offense. Sounds like a never-ending circle. Even bringing in free agent pitching talent depends on the offense. If the O's could support the pitchers efforts on offense some would entertain the O's.

Too another point the Stadium. Moving the fences back in Left and Right 5-10 feet and the alleys 10-12 feet would make a major difference. The minimal seat loss could be made up in center with and addition. This would possibly make this a more pitching attractive stadium.
I am not a fan of bringing Fielder in.
1. Body type
2. Is he playing for the contract?
3. Too much money for one player when the O's are not one player away.
4. Put the money in Jones and Weiters now.

I think some bold moves could be made.
1. Guthrie (I am a fan of his) trade IF a TOP TEIR talent can be gotten.
2. Reynolds
3. If Hardy will not resign LT deal in next 2 weeks get TOP TEIR talent. We have him under agreement thru 2012. So it could wait for winter trade.
* Top Tier Talent = major of very near major ready talent at IF or pitching positions.
Winners have continuity of management. Look at the glory O's years. Keeping Buck and Andy for the long term is something necessary. Or we start all over with someone else’s plan. Continuity. Follow the plan through with all its stumbles.

Sit the under performing lackadaisical veterans regardless of their so-called seniority or reputation or contract. Demote or release the over the hill gang. Bring up anybody from triple a who can walk and chew gum - they cannot be any worse than this bunch of impersonators. Get Ripken in the front office!!!

Dan,

I agree it's hard to keep writing the same things about the Orioles. Here is something new and easy: Peter Angelos. Why don't you write about him?

Question is how long will Buck put up with this before he too does a Conner. Sometimes losing is redemptive, but what the O's are doing right now is corrosive to the max. Teams are taking numbers to play the O's. Very sad! RR

If you think it's bad now, wait until after the All-Star break and the fast-approaching July non-waiver trade deadline. If we have a solid nugget, I fully expect the Orioles to deal it for the future. Guthrie is as good as gone, and good for him. He deserves to be on a better team, where he gets some run support. Also, look for a bat to go. I hope it's not Hardy because of his upcoming free agency. I guess we just have to wait another year ... or two ... again.

MacPhail is a failure. He was hired in June 2007 and begged for patience from fans as the team would struggle through 1-2 years of pain before becoming more competitive- his "three year plan". Well we are now 4 years into his 3-year plan and the team is as bad as ever. (and for the record, a lot of Os fans gave him all the patience he asked for and more, fully falling in line behind his "plan," including myself)

MacPhail said he would invest in the Orioles' international presence, but we are even more of a non-factor internationally than ever. See the recent international free agent signings for proof.

MacPhail said he would invest in the minor leagues and player development, but then downsized our minor league operation. Scouting and player development are a joke- despite drafting high every year AND dumping numerous all-stars for prospects, our "inventory" is regarded as one of the thinnest in the league.

MacPhail said that after the first year or two he would open the pocketbook for top free agents, specifically targeting a "buy the bats" strategy. Well, as other AL East squads lock up proven, low-risk franchise players like Mark Teixiera and Adrian Gonzalez, we get Garrett Atkins and Michael Gonzalez. MacPhail has not made a single serious run at a free agent- at best making one low-ball offer and then throwing up his arms- and seems intent on instead proving his smarts by stacking the roster with bargain buys and has-beens.

MacPhail has failed to deliver on his promises and this is a fact. He has failed to deliver a more competitive team, and he has failed to take all the steps he said he would take to get us to competitiveness. I really wish the Sun or SI or ESPN would do some kind of expose story on the sham of MacPhail's "genius." The guy hasn't a clue and it's past time we recognized that and gave him the boot.

1998-2007 Avg Wins/Year: 72.3
2008-2010 Avg Wins/Year: 66.0
1998 Season Attendance: 3.7 Million
2001 Season Attendance: 3.1 Million
2005 Season Attendance: 2.6 Million
2007 Season Attendance: 2.2 Million
2010 Season Attendance: 1.7 Million

Given the Orioles average 2010 ticket price of $23.42, this drop in attendance costs the O's $5M a year in revenue from tickets alone, not to mention lost concessions and merchandise sales. I would expect the value of their television rights is dropping by the same proportion.

What we are seeing is a self-fulfilling prophesy in action: the Orioles may not have been a budget-constrained, small-market team when Angelos and MacPhail started, but they sure will be when they finish!

The use of the word "PAIN" is an understatement, Dan. This is more like "TRAUMA".

Holding anyone accountable ?

Nah, just a coincidence. :)

Hi Dan,

In mid May I predicted that the Orioles would be 20 games out on August 1. Looks like I was being optimistic back then. The team and the organization is in free fall. Maybe the Red Sox hitters are tired after beating up on the Blue Jays and we catch a break.

The warning signs were there when Andy B. Macphail was hired. He never made winning a stated or urgent mission or even talked about a time frame in which to accomplish that as a goal.

Grow the Arms and buy the bats. We got a slogan rather than a timetable and a committment. That's because there never was a timetable or mission. Go back and look at Andy's words when he was hired. Now it all makes sense. Not one pitcher on the major league roster was grown by Andy. Buy the bats. Right, as long as they are sloppy seconds, left overs that 31 other teams passed on.

Conned..thats what we got. Angelos is a lot smarter than people give him credit for. He got the heat off himself by hiring Andy to keep the payroll down. Now after 4 years we are right where we should be based on Andy's utter failure as GM to produce a winning team. You have to wonder if that was part of the plan. Kick the can down the road and whine about the payroll of the Yankees and Red Sox. Spend 4 years looking busy and then retire, passing the mess on to the next Angelos yes man.

As I said before, from Andy on down, the front office execs must pinch themselves and giggle every two weeks when they go on line to check their bank account and see that the ACH has hit.

This reminds me so much of two other teams from the past, The Washington Senators and the Cleveland Indians.

The Cleveland Indians suffered through thirty years of frustration prior to the Jacob brothers taking over the team in 1986.

The Washington Senators were so bad that after 25 years of losing they were moved to Minnesota in 1961. The new expansion team was so bad that they left Washington in 1971.

It's not just the the Orioles that are floundering. Their minor league system has not one top 25 player. You can forget Machado. His .190 batting average is fifth worst on the team. He was promoted while his batting average was plummeting. So much for player development. It is clear that the current ownership, scouting, and player development is incompetent. The only solution would seem to be to bring in new ownership with sufficient capital and start from scratch. This crew continues to stink up the place and if the team in Washington continues to improve the attendance at Orioles games will continue to diminish and the team will eventually leave the city. It's a shame but that is what current ownership has done to this once successful team.

I wish we had half the farm system those bums down in DC have. Wheres our Strasburg? Wheres our Harper? Wheres our franchise cornerstone like Zimmerman? Of course their GM Mike Rizzo was available when we hired Mc-Fail, but we're the O's. This is who we are....perennial losers.

Wow, those quotes from MacPhail are maddening, and yet the owner wants him back. And MacPhail said he wants Jordan back as scouting director, because, as we've all seen, our scouts are some of the best (insert rolly-eyes emoticon here).

"We just don't have enough depth.....We were probably working with seven or eight and you really need to work with more than that." -AM

Well whose job is it to get depth? Whose job is it to make sure the club is working with more than "seven or eight?" That would be you Mr. MacPhail. Lord. Stop making excuses and do your job.

"Justin Duchscherer went down with the hip" - AM

The fact that you were actually counting on Duchscherer, a guy who hasn't pitched regularly in the majors since 2008, tells us all everything we need to know.

"They're[Free Agent Pitchers] not coming here. All things being close to equal, they wouldn't come." - AM

As the GM isn't it your job to convince them to come here? Admitting you are not good at convincing or offering enough money to make free-agent pitchers come here? A good GM could sell ketchup popsicles to a woman in white gloves. Already admitting defeat is not a quality any GM should have, let alone one running a team to it's 14th straight losing season, the 4th/5th under his own watch.

"You can find hitters, but the pitching has pretty much got to be internal. Not so much relief pitching, but starting pitching. You just can't have enough of it." - AM

And yet, Mr. MacPhail you've already admitted the O's don't have enough of it and have no pitching depth. So, again, you're basically admitting you haven't done your job nor practiced what you've preached. As for relief pitching, when the O's were successful they're bullpen was full of home-grown guys who they'd bring up, put in the pen to groom for starter-roles or just keep 'em there. Of course we all know MacPhail's track record with free-agent relief pitchers. Rapada, Accardo, Gonzalez, Gregg (and that's just some of the free agent pitchers on this years team) have been such big successes. As for finding hitters, MacPhail most certainly hasn't found ANY hitters through free agency. Buying the bats has turned into a punch-line about buying actual wooden bats. (again, insert rolly-eyes emoticon here)

Andy MacPhail just showed through his own words why he is not the man for the job. And yet, the owner has publically stated that he wants him back. How or why is beyond the comprehension of many fans, what's left of them. Everything he said above that Roch quoted leaves me with less hope for the O's than I had when I woke up today. Put a fork in 'em, because with MacPhail and the owner at the top, this franchise is done.

The O's now remind me of a scene from one of the best movies, The Big Lebowski:

The Dude (or in this case Andy MacPhail): Look, nothing is *bleeped*, here, man.
The Big Lebowski (or in this case the fans): Nothing is *bleeped*? The *bleep* *bleep* plane has crashed into the mountain!

actual quotes can be found over at Roch's latest blog entry.

Clippers East !

Dan, is Angelos the worst owner in pro sports ? What can us fans do to get him to sell the franchise ? Not showing up to games wont work given that he is guaranteed a profit by Bugsy Selig

Your pal, CB

Don't over-sell the value of a quality starting pitcher going 7+ innings... As Peter Angelos once said (Sept. 2006), we only pitch every 5th day you know! Paying big money for quality starting pitching is insanity... right?

My take: Sign Hardy, keep Reynolds and Scott and Guthrie. Trade Vlad and/or DLee, and Koji or Gregg. (This winter, sign Fielder and Webb or Wilson)

I like Hardy a lot, but I think he's playing better than he is right now. He's also had those injury problems... Despite all that I try my hardest to work out a 2-3, maybe 4 year deal. If he can play 140 games/yr and bat .280/.340/.460 with 20+ homers (which is about what he did in 2008), you'd be foolish to not be happy with that from your SS. He's hitting a bit of a slump now and his numbers are starting to drop a bit, so he may be more likely to sign. I know people don't want Hardy taking Machado spot, but Machado isn't as close as people think. Since he got off the DL, he's struggled and the O's prematurely promoted him to Frederick where he's hitting .190/.239/.262 with one extra base hit. He'll make it to the Show, but we can't base our next three years at any position on a 19 year old with those kinda stats at high-A. And as was mentioned before, how nice would it be to have some combination of Reynolds, Hardy and Machado filling the corners and SS in 2013?? If we can't sign Hardy now, we let him lead-off the rest of the season (barring a meltdown) and hope he plays well enough to get us some extra draft picks, and then see if we can't sign him. Don't move him out of the lead-off spot, if it's working, even if Roberts comes back. (If Roberts does come back, you start him low and gradually move him higher. We can't have him with so much responsibility leading-off that he starts throwing himself at bags again.)

We keep Reynolds. 'Nuff said. Or it should be, but maybe I should go ahead and throw my two cents at you anyway. He has something going on in his head that allows him to guff up some routine plays where he has extra time, but then follows it with something spectacular. To say the least, it's been shoddy, but I think his overall D is better that statistics show. He brought his Ks down a bit, and while I don't expect him to reach 200, his rate has been increasing with his homers. I expect him to finish with 40-42 hrs and around 190 Ks. He's far and away proved he can handle the AL East and we have to keep him through next year, and it'll probably prove a good idea to take that option. Also, in my personal opinion - I like him and think he fits in Baltimore.

Though I got caught up in the hope that Vlad would provide some protection to our other hitters and knock in some runs, I was skeptical about relegating Scott to LF when they signed Vlad this winter. A lot of people complained about this taking away opportunities from Reimold and Pie, and while I agreed, my biggest worry was that Scott would lose the momentum he had in 2011. Every player has pushed themselves to incredible limits to make it the major leagues and they also know they are much more valuable if they can field a position. So of course Scott was "excited" to be able to go back out to LF. I don't think his words matched his true feelings though. I remember his skepticism with DHing at the beginning of 2010, but how he grew into the role. He was our most consistent batter last year and I attribute all of that to his being able to focus on nothing more than hitting the ball. I even remember writers and bloggers commenting on the wonderful consistency of a guy they had called and currently are calling one of the streakiest players on the team. Vlad may have put a few more butts in the seats and his signing may have signaled a slight change in philosophy with the franchise, but could you imagine if Scott was repeating his 2010 numbers in Vlad's spot and Reimold was able to carry the numbers he has now? Yeah, he has the tear in his shoulder or w/e it is, but maybe he wouldn't have if he hadn't tried to prove that he could re-take the field. Imagine...

Hardy .292/.351/.530
Markakis .294/.340/.386
Jones .285/.327/.461
Scott .274/.348/.520 (2010 on July 6)
Reynolds .230/.352/.507
Wieters .269/.320/.412
Reimold .271/.362/.492
Lee .233/.293/.341
Andino .245/.326/.306

Now that you're done imagining, let something similar to this be the plan for next year. Maybe even throw a Fielder into the mix. Shut Scott down and make him get the surgery, so he can get back to chopping firewood in the off-season and get ready to be our DH in 2012. In fact, require anyone that has mild surgeries to take care of (i.e. warts removed) to get them done in October while they're watching the better teams play ball. Maybe even in September for some of the young pitchers if they start to gas out.

Treat Guthrie the same way you treat Scott. Keep him around, but if we're serious about competing next year, put a bonafide starter, that has a good chance to give us 200 innings and win 15 games, in front of him. Millwood was a good try, but lets see if we can't do a little better. Not many ballplayers, and no one in the entire O's system can replace Guthrie right now. I know he had a horrible game, but he is nothing but humble and consistent and we need that going forward. With the ineffectiveness of Matusz, Tillman and Bergy, it's obvious we can't have enough pitching. Guthrie cannot be spared. With regards to next year - maybe take a flyer on Brandon Webb or try to get C.J. Wilson. Both are free agents and, if healthy, would mean a world of difference. I know, I know. Andy says " grow the arms, buy the bats", but I don't think he's so black and white that he'd pass on an opportunity if it made sense. Angelos has the money. Convince him to spend it. Again, imagine...

Wilson 3.02 ERA, 1.21 WHIP
Guthrie 3.77, 1.19 (Avg of years not ace)
Britton 3.38, 1.27
Arrieta 4.50, 1.34
Matusz (or Tillman or Bergy)

Pretty crazy, we all were ready to hand Matusz the ace role at the start of this season. But getting back to the task at hand...

Keep giving Vlad as many opportunities hitting fourth at possible in the hope that he'll get a little hot and increase his value so that we can get some salary relief and/or a middle infield AA/AAA prospect for him. Having Vlad hitting fourth, also keeps some of the responsibility off Reynold's shoulders which messes with his mind a bit. Reynolds has been hitting better farther back, let him build up his confidence before we feed him to the wolves. Let DLee do his thing from a bit farther back in the lineup, but treat him similarly. Get absolutely anything you can for these guys since they won't be here next year and likely won't be a part of any success we have in the final two months. I'd also trade Koji or Gregg, but not both, for the best middle infield prospect we can steal from another team.

Tell me I'm wrong, but back it up with something.

What is saddest is that the bats we buy (except for Hardy and Reynolds, two keepers) have disappointed repeatedly. Lee is a great glove and shows sparks of life with the bat. Now may be the time to move him. As for the arms, Matusz will be back. Halliday and Cliff Lee each spent time in the minors after their first stints in the majors. Arrieta and Britton are the real deals who need to keep adjusting to hitters as hitters adjust to them. But the draft (except for Matusz and potentially Machado) continues to be a bust.
It is time to get what you can for Koji, Gregg, Lee Vlad and Scott-who should have been dumped when he opened his big mouth and was healthy. I
Who is responsible here?
Also, has it dawned on management that maybe in this economy (10% unemployment in Maryland) that prices at Camden Yards should come down, not go up? More bodies there mean more beer, food and concessions sales.
WHO IS RESPONSIBLE?

I'd be interested in seeing the starting rotation's numbers with Mark Connor as the pitching coach, and their numbers with Rick Adair as the pitching coach.

It may be coincidence, and it may not be coincidence, but I feel like this massive downward spiral began the day Mark Connor resigned. I'd like to see some numbers and comparisons.

Dan,

Would you like to guess what the Oriole's record is going to be at the end of the month? The next 20 games feature 4 on the Road against the Red Sox starting tonight, back home for 3 against the Indians and 3 more against the Red Sox, then 3 at home against the Angels, who are only one game behind the Rangers as we speak. Then we play 3 in Toronto to see if we can close some ground on the Blue Jays(don't think so up there), then close out the month with 4 on the road against the Yankees, including a day night double header on the 30th.

I say they will be 42 and 62, and 20 games out at that point. What do you think? Have they given us any reason to think that they will be better off than that?

All you have to do is look at our winning percentage in the minors, while I agree it is not the most important thing, winning is an attitude and it breeds future success. Go to an Ironbirds game and check out the other teams rosters stocked with carribean and south american talent, the O's just don't get it and it starts with Agelos and Jordan. Leave now Buck before you get stuck with O's way label

The biggest surprise of the year is Buck Showalter's inability to do anything with this team. He came here with this amazing reputation for being the go-to guy in building a team from scratch.

Instead, the Orioles claim another managerial victim. I guess he'll be back at ESPN after this season explaining why not even he could pump some life into these guys.

Yet despite everything, we are hitting. It;s the pitching that has kept us down. The biggest mistake Buck made was dumping Kranitz, who was half symbiotic of the whole that the pitchers completed. Every pitcher who pitched last year has taken a step or ten backward. Yep, we shoulda kept Kranny.

Dan,

I consider this a below-the-belt column unworthy of you...as if stats tell the whole story!

First of all, this "worst run under Buck Showalter" isn't on him, just on his watch. I still have the utmost respect for him as a manager.

Has play over the period cited been uniformly awful? Yes, but why? First, and foremost, injuries to key players:

B-Rob - The biggest loss and the biggest to blame. A total no-show. And Brian, as much as he's still one of my favorite Orioles, brought this upon himself and the team--LITERALLY. Beating yourself up mentally after a bad at bat is one thing, but beating yourself over the head? Thanks for nothing, Brian, you've hurt this team big time by your senseless act and been a MAJOR part in why this season's turned into another crash-and-burn.

Crash-and-burn? Luke's recent close encounter with a wall doesn't help, either.

The rotation - Aside from Zach, not a single starter has been 100% healthy. Duchscherer has been a total zero, between physical ailments and a bad attitude (he's said he feels sad if he gets an opposing batter out and would rather be playing tennis -- who signed this knucklehead? oh, yeah...nicely scouted, Andy). Matusz is nearly a zero too, missing two months, then looking totally lost on the mound when he did come back. Bergy still looks like he's never fully recovered from the Billy Beane liner. Guthrie's missed a start and had to leave a game early--otherwise, he's the same old inconsistent Jeremy, who's not really all that bad, just bad enough to lose on most nights (would that an injury were all that was wrong with him). Arrieta's had a sore elbow--so far nothing major, but "sore elbow" is not the sort of thing you want to hear about a young starter who many have tab as ace material. And before getting sent down, Tillman pitched like he might be hurt, too, though fortunately nothing was diagnosed. So the O's have been forced to start the likes of journeyman Chris J. and career minor leaguer Atkins and now, presumably, Simon. What opinions are left. Well, they could finally give J.J. a shot. Or trade for a starter But the solution I like (crazy as it is) would be to sign Bundy and make him the fifth starter!

This rotation meltdown has, of course, negatively impacted on the bullpen.

Add the lack of production from Vlad and D-Lee, who've batted in the middle of the lineup for too long (this one is on Buck).

And let's not forget how Nick's horrible start, along with Hardy's early injury added to the loss column in April - May.

So, Dan, let's not lose sight that this has been a very damaged team. Yes, they wouldn't have been making much noise in the AL East even had everything been clicking, but there's a background story that need not be ignored.

--
Fair enough, Ken. Stats alone don't always tell the story. But the fact is this has been a terrible stretch, and I thought it was fair to show the numbers since we have been continuing mentioning the factors that you have detailed.

There's another sets of numbers that is more fundamental. In 1998, when the Orioles were competitive, their payroll of $74 million was highest in the majors. Now it has been well below the average year after year, and so has been the team's performance. This is not coincidence. I believe that AM's tenure has been corrupted by his trying to prove how shrewd and thrifty he is-- finding hidden value on the cheap rather than being willing to pay top dollar for top talent. The team will not get out of its continued failure until its management is willing to pay for star free agents. I don't mean one player, I mean an extra $50 million for 3 dependable stars, including a #1 starter and two impact players on offense.

Fair enough, Ken. Stats alone don't always tell the story. But the fact is this has been a terrible stretch, and I thought it was fair to show the numbers since we have been continuing mentioning the factors that you have detailed.
--------------------------------
Yeah, Dan, very true, it's awful anyway we slice it. Don't take my comments too personally, they're just the product of a half season's worth of severe disappointment and frustration coming to a boil.

This was supposed to be the year, after all, that the Orioles would play .500 ball and take a step towards legitimacy; instead it's developing into yet another nightmarish carousel ride with no way off.