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May 30, 2010

Because I know you'll ask

With another off day looming and the Orioles seemingly headed for a fifth straight loss, I fully expect the speculation to start that tomorrow will be the day the team fires manager Dave Trembley.

So before it begins in full force, let me say this: I've talked to a couple of prominent members of the organization over the last 36 hours, and I don't see it happening tomorrow.

Can I say it with certainty that it won't?

No, I can't because you can never predict when owner Peter Angelos will just say that he's seen absolutely enough and order a change immediately. He hasn't done it to this point, but that day is probably not far off. I don't think, however, it will be tomorrow on Memorial Day in the media capital of the world.

Orioles president of baseball operations Andy MacPhail is not on this road trip, and I've been given no indication that he will meet the team in New York, though it's obviously not that difficult of a trip. There's no way MacPhail would fire Trembley over the phone.

Overall, things aren't looking good for Trembley. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure that out. MacPhail and Angelos have met several times and I'm sure they've touched on a variety of topics. But it's obvious they are discussing a managerial change. While I'm sure that MacPhail briefs Angelos on his ongoing effort to revamp the bullpen, there is no way that conversation lasts long. They are obviously discussing their options if - or more likely - when a change is made, and it appears it will be soon.

My opinion is that they'll hire somebody on an interim basis and then open up a search after the season. The three interim candidates are bench coach Jeff Datz, third base coach Juan Samuel and Triple-A manager Gary Allenson. I would give Samuel the edge because he's very well-respected by the players and he's a fiery guy who will rattle some cages in the clubhouse. I think we can all agree that some of these Orioles need to be shaken up a little bit because they continue to underachieve and let down their teammates and coaching staff.

And for the record, I hate even having to write a blog like this, which will undoubtedly serve to just fuel more speculation. But as a reporter, you just can't ignore the constant talk. Regardless of what you think of Dave Trembley as a manager, he's a class act who deserves better than to twist in the wind while hearing he's about to get fired.

Posted by Jeff Zrebiec at 2:30 PM | | Comments (102)
        

Comments

and AM has to do the deed knowing he pretty much gave him this dysfunctional roster, devoid of power and speed, no bullpen, and said, here, go win me some games.
I am not an AM basher per se, but even he has to be watching this going, what the hell have I done?

And why don't they try and hire a long term guy now? someone who can come in and figure out what these guys are all about during an actual season?

Dave Trembley probably will go soon, but, just as replacing Cal Ripken, Sr., didn't change a horrible season, so too will this move show more desperation than wisdom.

Whoever they bring in needs to light a fire under some of these players, especially Weiters and Jones. Both are instant rally killers and really don't look like they are hustling. And someone needs to tell Jones if he doesn't start playing deeper in the outfield, he's going to watching the game from the bench.

I agree, Jeff. From all accounts, Trembley seems like a good guy and it's not fair to lay all the O's woes at his doorstep. But it's obvious that a change needs to be made, and as the saying goes, you can't fire 25 players.

I guess it won't hurt if we wait until we get swept in NY. Personally I like a different option. First forfeit all remaining road games,we never win on the road to begin with and it will give our All-Stars a chance to get healthy. Then at every home game have a drawing and let a lucky(?) fan manage the team. Probably will increase attendance and who knows maybe one of the many blog contributors will show some managerial talent. Right now this team is so bad they are unwatchable.

did toronto have more runs than the O's had hits in this series? it had to be close...

I thought MacPhail was making the baseball decisions. So your saying Angelos remains actively involved in the clubs baseball operations?

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Jeff Z's reply: MacPhail does make the baseball decisions, but if Peter wants something to happen, he's going to request that it happens. That's true with any club, any owner in sports.

I've not been a Trembley or Crow basher--- both are good baseball men and just good guys all around. But it is painfully obvious that one or both need to go because things can't keep going like this. I'm sure they teach/preach plate discipline and basic fundamentals, but the message doesn't seem to be getting through. Players are not being held accountable at all. Someone needs to come in and rattle some cages and get their attention. You never like to see anyone lose their job, but what's to be gained by waiting any longer---- nothing.Don't know who the right man is but it needs to happen soon

Why is their such complacency with Trembley and MacPhail? This plan of MacPhail has failed miserably.

On pace to win 47 games. The fundamentals (fielding, hustle, mental errors, etc.) have been poor for years. They can't produce any big bats in the minors.

The supposedly strong arms have yet to establish themselves in the rotation. Most are just trying to avoid being sent back down. The bullpen is a disaster.

Yet, nothing is down. It shouldn't take 3 yrs of rebuilding to be on pace for 47 wins. The only teams that continue to be horrible are the ones that don't even try (Pitt and KC).

Even the Nationals are playing about .500 and they sure don't have great talent. Something fundamentally is wrong with the organization and it shows now. There simply is no accountability. Produce or get rid of them.

FIRE ANGELOS!!!!!

I give up. Worst Oriole Team ....EVER

It is what's wrong w/baseball. You have managers/coaches working their tails off, putting in OT, trying to put a good team on the field and the players are clearly underperforming. The players will get their salaries no matter how poorly they have performed.

Having said that, like the saying goes, you can't fire the players. I do think Trembley will go and while I question his managerial style, he has worked hard. Having said that though, I think members of the coaching staff should go too (namely Crow and maybe Shelby). No matter how great of a coach Crowley has been, it's time to move on and try something else. Hall of Fame coaches and managers know better than anyone that if you stay in the game long enough, there will come a time when you will get fired.

Hire some one away from this org, start over please no one active with the O s

This just cannot go on. I was fan of Trembley when he was hired, but I think now his bark is worse than his bite.

The roster cannot win consistently, but they appear to be so overmatched on a daily basis, that it's hard not to conclude that a change would get them to fight a little more.

On another topic - Jeff: when is someone going to take a hard look at the O's conditioning program? The number of injuries and games lost to muscle tweaks just seems out of proportion. The Yankees suffered some conditioning problems at the beginning of '07 and canned their conditioning coach.

MASN mentioned today the Orioles missed Batting practice because of "picture day" and missed yesterday as well for an unknown reason. Can't the team get to the ballpark at 8am and get this in? I don't understand...we just don't seem organized and prepared.

back in the 60's the o's were a bad team. they made a trade for a guy named frank robinson. bingo, the team turned around. they gave up young pitching talent to get him, but it was worth it. i don't see much difference between them and now. there's a lot of talent on this team, they just don't have a leader. this club needs that person who can add confidence to these players, fast. i don't care how many millons it cost, this team is walloing in its own lazy mediocracy. i have been an o's fan all my life, even though i live 400 mioles away, i still make one trip to btown a year to see them play. come on guys play like you want to win. go o's.

Regardless of what they do with Trembley, Crowley absolutely needs to go. His message obviously has gone stale after 12 straight losing seasons as hitting coach under five different managers. He may be a good guy and, in some other setting, a decent enough hitting coach, but other than Angelos, Crowley is the longest-tenured constant since the losing began in '98. It's time to bring in a new messenger to try and shake the offense out of its doldrums.

It is time for Peter A. to remember he is a lawyer and not a baseball guru. He has demonstrated for years he is not a leader, and just watching the Nationals makes you wonder who is after the baseball market in the area. All he is interested in is bleeding the team dry!

120 LOSSES. That is where this going. Trembley, in my belief, will be fired tonight or tomorrow. It will not help this team. It is a complete hodgepodge of players that is not going to win.

120 LOSSES. That is atrocious.

class act/ perhaps. you're around him, and i'm not. i can only go by what i hear from interviews and what i read in the paper. he's thrown many players under the bus and the bottom line is he's not a good manager. a lack of instinctive feel for the game and no clue how to handle a pitching staff. couple that with until sometime this yr he would make out his line up card 3-4-5 days in advance which meant anyone who was hot and scheduled in advance to sit would sit rather than play even if they were 6 for their 8 in the two previous games.. let's face it. this team is a joke 21 under 500 at it's only memorial day. macphail has to do something and that something is change the person at the helm because right now the ship is so far off course, magellan, rand mcnally and the best gps system around would have trouble getting this team back on course..but you need to replace the "leadership" position in the clubhouse and on the field..

The poster above is absolutely correct. As long as Peter Angelos is involved, the Orioles will ALWAYS be a second rate organization - and by extension a second rate team.

When Angelos goes things will magically improve. The rest of the stuff talked about really doesn't matter.

Is 120 losses in sight? Angelos would love that. Being in the records books for having the worst club EVER.

Can it happen?

I listened to Tejada being interviewed after the game today and you could hear the frustration in his voice. He said it was up to the players to play better and he was tired of hearing people blaming Tremley and Crow.

He is correct, of course, but we do need to shake things up. We should give an outright release to someone like Atkins and sit down some of our over-compensated starters like Wieters and Jones and let only the players that LOOK like they care play. Tejada, Patterson, Lugo, and Iztruis look like their trying. If a player doesn' t look like they want to play, sit them down and fine them.

It frustrating enough watching the club turn in yet another dismal season, but it makes it worse to see players displaying such little intensity.

I am also a SF Giants fan and the Giants players are so much more into the game when compared to the Orioles. Night and Day. The Orioles should be forced to watch the Giants play to see how a real major league team plays. Maybe some of it would rub off.

And by the way, their manager, Bruce Bochy, is also a pretty low key guy who just expects his players to play up to their abilities. Is it asking too much for the Os to do the same?

All-Star shortstop for the Marlins does not hustle one play and is benched ... non- All Stars / journeymen (pick one) for the Os don't hustle game after game and the manager is mute ... that's why Trembly needs to go

And the pain continues. Andy loves pain, and Peter loves Andy.

I agree that it is time for a change. It is not fair that the coaches/managers take the fall for this sad-sack bunch of underachievers but that is baseball. I don't think you do it against the Yankees on the road though, even though we likely will get swept anyway. Juan Samuel has not exactly distinguished himself as a third-base coach but we need someone with fire and good fundamentals.

If Dave Trembley was a nasty guy, it would be much easier. I would begin by looking at the coaching staff. There are way too many injuries. How can you plan a strategy when your players are dropping like flies? Something is wrong.

I'm sorry Jeff, but I'm sick of hearing what a good guy Trembley is. We all know he is a great guy and has always talked of how proud he is to be the O's manager, etc..., but things aren't working on the managerial end. He needed to be fired about 3 weeks ago yet nothing? Enouhg is enough. He needs to go asap. Make a freaking move Mcphail!


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Jeff Z's reply: THat's fine. Nowhere did I mention that him being a good guy should lead to him keeping this job. It should, however, prevent the club from leaving him hanging and twisting in the wind. If you are going to fire him and that clearly is the direction this is headed, then do it.

Change the manager, coaches and GM and the sad fact is that most of the players stink.
Furthermore, most of the players in the O's farm system stink.
Brian Roberts seems to be suffering from the effects of steroids and will never return as a top caliber player.
I don't understand why I still care.

I'm starting the campaign for Bobby Valentine as new O's manager (If he'll have us...see Joe Girardi....).

Juan Samuel can't coach third base....I can't imagine him heading up an entire ball club.

I've also heard speculation that Andy MacPhail has the final say in the lineup every day. Anyone know if there's any truth to that?

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Jeff Z's reply: No. Andy, like every GM I'm sure, gives suggestions. And if Andy wants Luke Scott to play first more to increase potential trade value, he'd probably ask the manager to play him at first more. But as far as approving the lineup every day, that's completely false.

Too many posts on here are giving Trembley a pass. Obviously this team isn't a lineup built to win pennants or even crest .500, but it's also not a team that should be on pace to break the top 10 list for teams with most losses in a season ever. We have two starting pitchers with ERAs in the 3s; we have a batter in the top five for HRs. We should be winning SOME games. That we are failing to IS the fault of the manager. If the players aren't fired up to play hard, then it is the manager's fault. If a manager can't fire up his team, then he is failing to fulfill a major requirement of his job. I'm not saying Trembley is the problem; I am saying he is definitely part of the problem.

What on God's green earth has being a nice guy and class act have to do with Trembley's qualifications to manage the Orioles? My grandmother was a nice lady and a class act, but she didn't even know how many men were on a ball team. Was she qualified to manage? I can't believe I'm reading this nice guy/class act b.s. in a paper I used to write sports for, and used to be proud of. Where are they getting these so-called reporters? Oh, I get it. They probably got their jobs because, even thought they're not qualified, they're nice guys.

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So called-reporter's reply: Who said anything about Dave being a nice guy having anything to do with his credentials as a manager? The point was, if you are going to fire him, do it, and move on. Stop letting him twist in the wind, and waiting for the ideal time to fire him, or the schedule to let up so the interim manager doesn't have to deal with 12 straight against Yankees, Mets and Red Sox. If that's the decision as it clearly appears to be, then make the move. And by the way, feel free to use your name next time rather than namecalling and making accusations while hiding behind an email address.
- Jeff Z.

Please do not mention any meetings between Angelos and Macphail. It just starts these idiotic crybabys off. They are so stupid they are ridiculous to read. Of course Macphail needs to talk to the owner about possibilities of changing a manager and/or coach.. We need some fire even if only for an interim period.. Some of these idiots say they don't see any improvement in the starters I guesss they are just so ignorant they are blind.. Many teams out there would take the ERA of these starters. The only real miss I see we might have had a chance at would have been Dunn at 1B but I think I read he wouldn't have wanted to come to the AL. I don't see a real big bat coming here in FA so I believe they have to trade to get one.. I don't know the other minors too much but I would scout hard trying to find a young power hitting 1B and/or SS to trade for some one blocked by an allstar somewhere. Also possibly a deal like that could be done now..

Please write an article condemning the crying Angelos bashers who claim to be fans. They need to grow up, There is no indication Peter is going anywhere and no one truly a fan cares what they think.. If they don't like the owner tell them to go to washington or philly..

Agree that a move needs to be made. Trembley seems like a good guy and a good manager, but he's given the team all he's got. We've seen what he can offer, and it's just not enough anymore. Let someone else have at it.

My 25 years of tickets say I am a true fan. Whether thru neglect, greed, mismanagement or all three, Mr. Angeles has destroyed baseball in Baltimore. 3.7 million fans have dwinedled to less 1/2 that...the produ ct is not worth watching.

Why this happened is worth exploring. But The Sun is not exploring it and is not holding Mr. Angelos accountable for this debacle.

Here's a vote for Gary Allenson. The Tides appear to be fundamentally sound, and the call-ups appear to be ready when they get here (although they eventually get caught up in the "funk"). He has coached most of these players already. He basically has his former AAA team in Oriole uniforms now. I remember a few years back when we promoted a little know AAA manager named Earl Weaver.......

many owners dyn't go to the club house and tahk to the players. in this case it seems to me that is what pweter angelos should do. go to the club house and tell them that he is not going t stand for any more of the way the orioles are playing. i have mentioned different times he ought to do as george steinbrener.if the players are not playing for dave trembley they sure won't play for any other manger. they say they have to play better,well what is the real problem for them not cleaning up there act. can't help but feel that there is cancer in the club house. what else could there be a cause for this under achieving team.

Have been a fan since '66 and Angelos has destroyed a once very proud organization. It is sad to have watched it happen over so many years. Here in Afghanistan we don't see games but we can read. He's only in it for the money. Worthless owner, period.

Newsflash: Owners can alienate fans.

i've watched or listened to most or all of every game this season maintaining a pretty positive attitude towards the team. this series in toronto has been pathetic. the lack of hitting and the all to familiar lack luster performance has me at wits end. firing the manager probably wont achieve much but it will show some accountability. a shake up in the clubhouse may be necessary to make it through this misery 21 games below 500 wow i dont know if i can make it through july.

Trembley should resign. The team is not responding to him, everyone knows he won't be back next year. This team just finds ways to lose and are getting worst each day. I don't see this turning around in the next three years.

big ed, you are totally off base. The Orioles just prior to obtaining Frank Robinson, were not a bad team, but an up and coming one with young talent who needed one more key player, as well as a leader, which they got big time with Frank. That is no comparison to the state the current Orioles find themselves in...

It is simple. Our guys stink. Get good players and you will change the culture.

Any thruth to the rumor that Angelos is frustrated with MacPhail?

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Jeff Z's reply: I'm sure Angelos is frustrated with how bad this team is, and how several of their offseason additions (primarily Gonzalez and Atkins) have not worked out, and you can bet he voices that frustration to Andy.

It seems like every day this newspaper reports that Trembley will be fired. This is speculation simply designed to fire up the blogosphere, but it is not responsible reporting. If you do not have any real source evidence to back up your claim, then don't make the claim.

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Jeff Z's reply: The fact that Peter and Andy have met a couple of times in the past two weeks is speculation?That's plenty of evidence that a move is being discussed and will happen unless something changes dramatically. They're not exactly getting togeter to discuss Frank Mata's role in the bullpen.

Jeff,

The local press is dancing around the root cause of the problem. Andy Macphail's tenure has been an absolute disaster. There is no light at the end of the tunnel and Macphail has little to show for four seasons in Baltimore. I understand there are politics in any profession but I thought the press would at least turn up the heat on Macphail by now, but your column is about Dave Trembley, who is the fall guy for a dysfunctional roster authored by Macphail. When will we see the first column that questions Macphail's leadership from anyone local? cotter


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Jeff Z's reply: I'm not a columnist. I'm a beat writer but I do agree when Dave goes, the heat will be turned up on Andy. I can't speak to what our columnists will write, but I do think Trembley has worn a lot of the criticism for this team. And I've said it before, no manager wins with this current roster.

Hey I'm a Bills fan and even cheapskate Ralph Wilson fired his coach last year. ...Send DT to the showers, pay Davey Johnson to manage the next 1.5 years and mentor Rick Dempsey and call it good.
...It's not to late, I mean all they have to do is go 50 games over .500 the rest of the year to have a shot at the playoffs!!!
...sighhhhh

I'm another DT supporter who has come to the sad conclusion that the "tide has turned," etc, etc., [insert cliche here] and it's time for him to move on. If the Os do fire DT, I hope they go and get the guy they really want to manage immediately, rather than weigh somebody (and the whole team) down with the interim tag. You don't fire the manager you have unless you KNOW the guy you want will take the job. It was embarassing when Girardi turned them down. What the Os really need is someone who will shake things up. Can PA buy the technology to clone Earl Weaver?

Orioles suck!! Go Jays!! Canada Rules!

On the bright side, it looks like we have a lock on the number one draft choice next year. At this point that looks like it will be Anthony Rendon, a third baseman out of Rice.

Jeff, can you think of one good reason why this team should remain intact, players and staff? 15 wins in 51 games isnt a bad stretch, Its a third of a season. Anyone with half a brain has to realize it isnt turning around on its own. Every game they keep Atkins, Albers, Lugo, Hendrickson, & Izturis on this team is a wasted opportunity to get a look at some prospects who couldnt do any worse. Am I wrong?

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Jeff Z's reply: No, you're absolutely right. And I assume some of the guys you mentioned above would have either been designated or released had anybody at Triple-A been getting the job done.

St Louis has a OF/1B at AAA named Craig Allen. I suspect he will not be playing 1B in St Louis anytime soon. He had a very nice year at AAA last year and might be available if/when they feel they need another starter.

I have an entirely different take on this. even though I do spot the short comings of DT. This game is very difficult to play. And season is a grind. I believe the expectations were allowed to grow because of the acquisitions made over the winter. Adkins is a bust, but we knew he was project. So, in poker, that's called a push. Pie showed promise last year and continued with that progression but was injured. For Trembley, that's a push. Koji is push. Gonzales..push. Who would even begin to imagine a lineup without BRob? His absence changes EVERYTHING about this club, especially the offensive shortage. Wieters is doing a fantastic job considering the number of opposing players he must study. He's been in the league for one year, and he's called excellent games. He may be overloading his self mentally on defense, and his offensive plate awareness is slipping, but that will end. He could bust out any time, or maybe not. It may be next year or the following one. Markakis has always turned in up in the second half. Isturiz never could hit, Jones....there are a lot of light bulbs waiting to click on. He's still a kid with incredible talent. But he's learning the game. Bottom line; I just don't see how Trembley is responsible for this. Granted, his handling of the bullpen, and a few other nuances are glaring, but a change at this point in time isn't productive. We need BRob healthy and leading off, and leading by example.

AM should have fired DT at the end of last season. The longer PA and AM wait this season to get the deed over with, the longer the O's will wallow as a team of losers.

Rick Dempsey or Davey Johnson are lookikng pretty good right now

Ken

To all those screaming for Trembley's head - if I was a MLB Manager, I wouldn't come here. You're only going to get failed re-treads and unknowns to apply for the job. Yes, maybe Trembley should be fired, but the new guy will just bring new problems, whatever they are.

The name Orioles used to mean something; Pride, Tradition and Fundamentals. Time to bring in the fiery "red _ss" practitioners of the Orioles way. Don Baylor as Manager, Don coaxes Bobby Grich off the golf course for one position and brings back Frank Robby as bench coach. Can anyone imagine any player loafing in the presence of those three?

Steve,

When ballplayers make millions on guaranteed contracts, the Managers hands are tied. This isn't the old firey days anymore. Weaver would not be able to control the players. Look at Atkins for an example, they have to EAT 5 MILLION to release the jerk.

PUT HIM OUT OF HIS MISERY!

"Jeff Z's reply: I'm sure Angelos is frustrated with how bad this team is, and how several of their offseason additions (primarily Gonzalez and Atkins) have not worked out, and you can bet he voices that frustration to Andy."

If that were true, he would not be cutting payroll and signing free agents who are worthless. How can he be frustrated when he created this mess in the firtst place with one of the lowest payrolls in the league? When was the last time the O's signed a big name free agent who actually PRODUCED? Like the saying goes, you get what you pay for.

Oh, by the way, correct me if I am wrong. Did Gonzalez also cost the O's their 2nd round pick? And if so, is that for this season or next season?

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Jeff Z's reply: Cost him this year's second-round pick.

I like Trembley too, but I do agree that Juan Samuel would be a better fit of the type of manager the team needs right now. Unfortunately, it really doesn't make a difference. A manager can yell at a team all day & night, if there is no talent to produce runs and get batters out, its all for naught.

Anybody who couldn't see this Atkins thing coming, long before he was signed, really lacks the intelligence that God gave him/her. All anyone has to do is look at the Mitchell Report release date, and then look at how his performance changed, and how he has not improved one offensive category since. McPhail should be fired just for that signing alone. He could have picked up LaRoche.

Gonzalez is a bust, Adkins is a bust. Adkins was brought in until Bell is ready which may not be for a couple of years. AM has done pretty good with his trades, free agents are another story. Rebuilding this farce will take time and I think they are on track. DT is definitely not getting the job done and must go, along with Crowley and Kranitz. No one here expected a playoff run, but to be this bad is unimaginable.

"And for the record, I hate even having to write a blog like this, which will undoubtedly serve to just fuel more speculation."

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What crap. You and every single reporter love this stuff. What ever happened to getting facts and waiting to report a story? You yourself said your blog only fuels speculation. Speculation is not fact. All speculation does is hope to sell a couple more newspapers. All "reporters" should shut their mouths until the firing takes place. Until then, don't speculate to sell three or four more newspapers.

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Jeff Z's reply: The blog entry didn't even go into the paper so I doubt it sold us a couple of more copies.

Did we really pass up Tim Lincecum and take Billy Rowell instead?

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Jeff Z's reply: I don't know if that was a rhetorical question or not, but the answer is yes.

Since Angelos can't be fired MacPhail needs to go first. For the 3 years he's been here the team continues to regress. I don't see much help on the farm either. Time is up and I'm convinced there is no plan. He's the one that put this mess together. Let the new president of baseball operations pick the new manager and decide on the coaching staff.

Only one needs to be fired at this time. It's AM's boss.

"With another off day looming and the Orioles seemingly headed for a five straight loss, "

I think "five" should be "fifth"

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Thanks. Fixed it.

I have been watching baseball for more than 50 years. It is obvious that the manager has lost the team. There is no life in that dugout and the team looks absolutely resigned to losing. Now they are making mental errors and that is contagious. The season is over for all practical purposes. Unfortunately, O's need to focus on planning to move Millwood, Tejada, Scott and others and get young talent. Very sad to see what has happened to this once proud franchise. Get rid of the manager? Not sure that solves anything. GLOldSchool

If one does not think that firing Trembley will help, then you just dont know the game. Trembley is the leader of the team and he fails at that function. Yes, he does not hit, field or pitch. However he must put people in the positon to succeed. He changes his lineup on a daily basis so there is no consistancy. He continues to mismanagethe pitching staff, just see series 1 of the 2010 season. I realize that this team lacks ALOT but he makes it non competitive. Jones should hit 2, Markakis 3, Weiters 4. Thats the core let them figure it out and stoip moving them all over the lineup.

What is so frustrating is that everyone gives great advice on what the orioles need to do....fact is peter angelos is an a@#$ole and for what ever reason just can't do the right thing for this team or for this town.....we all knew we were in trouble when he fired the A.L manager of the year over a spat with Roberto Alomar...He's been doing idiotic hings like signing players that are worthless (albert belle) and don't know or care about the oriole way...You would think peter knows what the oriole way is being from baltimore himself. it's sad and i mean that from the bottom of my heart...I LOVE THE ORIOLES...IM A BAWMER BOY...I hope they fire trembley to put him out of his misery...as far as mcpahil goes he's not the first great baseball mind to screw it up here....remember guys like pat gillick...angelos brought in frank wren instead of renewing gillick...angelos is the reason this team will never win...i hate to say it but at least steinbrenner learned his lesson..peter may have to pass on before this ever gets better.....until then it's rest in peace for our O'S........

Jeff,

Thanks for your reply to my earlier post. The current debacle we are witnessing on the part of the Orioles is a joint effort by Angelos and Macphail. After 10 years of meddling Angelos did a 360, hired a GM and allowed him to flounder around for four years with no difinitive goals or articulated benchmarks for success. All Macphail hads done is to trade a few veretens for prospects here and there and has gotten away with calling that effort "The Plan." Any good business manager knows that unless a process can be measured and tracked it is a recipe for disaster, and we are wintnessing exactly that with Macphail. In my opinion, we now see that Andy was the wrong man for the job and given no measurable goals, he has the team worse off than it was in early June 2007. It was predictable and the only way it can be rectified is to fire Macphail and bring in a younger GM and charge him with benchmarks and timelines to win.

I share every O's fans frustration when it comes to this season. While I agree that the time for DT to go arrived several weeks ago, I think saying that AM should be fired is a stretch. AM has brought the orioles young and talented players with potential...if the Orioles had continued on the 'sign the cheap free agents track' we would be in for more of the same regardless.

The fact of the matter is that the organization was so messed up and thin on quality when AM arrived that it is ridic. to think he or anyone could produce a winner within three years. It will take young players like Wieters, Matusz, and the rest of the young arms time to develop. The expectations set on these kids should not be HALL OF FAMERs, but rather productive players. Wieters will be a great catcher, but not after 1/2 season in the bigs. AM has not been perfect, far from it; but he has brought youth and potential to a club that had none. For the $ AM has/had to work with, what did you expect?

Problem is an owner who hides behind the excuse of "market size" yet earns a profit every year with a dwindling attendence and sad club...funny, he had money to spend 1995-99.

Mr. Ziot--

For the record, Pat Gillick was and is brilliant. He left the Os after his hands were tied by Peter Angelos. Mr. Gilliick then went to Seattle, turned the Mariners into a contender, and then to Philadelphia where he won yet another World Series.

If Peter Angelos had kept Pat Gillick we would not be having these dismal conversations.

Jeff, you're right you did stir it up again.

You just got to love those Angelos bashers. They dumped on him when he had his fingers all over this club, back when they were buying FA's, saying he needed to hire a baseball guy and get out of the way. We'll he did that and now they dump on him for not being involved. Typicall of the fair weather fans in B'More.

Please stop with the Rick Dempsy for manager campaign. Go check with the guys he mangaged when he was the AAA manager in the Dodgers org., they hated him and he was widely ripped for his on the field skills as well. Davey Johnson is not coming back, so let that one go as well.

I would keep DT for another month and if things didn't turn by then, make the move, but also I would start a fire sale. Yeah and that means Markakis, B-Rob, Jones, Weiters and anyone else you can trade on this club.

This is what you get when you pay guys an average of $3 Million to sit on the bench. This is also what happens when players get 6-10year contracts for $100 Million. How about true pay for performance contracts, with one year terms.

And please stop with saying we need a manager to get on the players. This is on the players. They are professionals, they get paid big bucks, time to put up. Yes you can fire the players all 25 of them. Maybe we can make a trade with Bowie for their team. At least we could understand why they can't compete at the prolevel.

"Gil" says above that "After 10 years of meddling Angelos did a 360." I agree, because doing a 360 involves looping completely around and then continuing in exactly the same direction you were.

Simply put Trembley is a "by the book" manager not a creative one. His being a good guy may be his Achilles heel. Jones and Weiters are example. Jones (who had a mediocre second half followed by a mediocre first half) was over-praised by Trembley and others. Going to the All-Star game and getting a Gold Glove which he did not deserve (markakis did) may have gone to his head and stunted his development. For example, a Gold Glover doesn't play an out into a triple in a Millwood game clearing the bases. He fights against playing deeper even when the suggestion comes from Paul Blair. Taking the "training wheels" off Weiters and getting rid of a good veteran catcher from whom he and the pitching staff could learn also has not helped Weiters. The worst things, however are the lack of focus and botching of the fundamentals.This is not an All-Star lineup but being accountable and playing better baseball are the first things that need correction. Trembley may be too "good" a guy to pull that off.

Jeff

I've been watching the Orioles since I was a kid back in the '50's. I've seen some great teams, a lot of good teams, so medicore, some bad and a few that were awful.

That being said, I ve never seen a team come out of Spring Training so underachieving as this one.

The 1988 team was God-awful, but they looked God-awful on paper before the season started. This team did not.

But injuries and lack of productivity from everyone except maybe Wigginton make them look as terribly overmatched that I now expect them to lose and they now play like they expect it too.

They need a shake up. They need someone to say this kind of lackluster play will not be tolerated, that basic little league mistakes will not be tolerated, that guys looking for a way to speed up when they get to take a shower will not be tolerated. Trembley isn't doing that so somebody else needs to.

I still say we hire Eric Wedge as a new manager.

I think Trembley is a great guy. I feel sorry for him. It's not his fault the team is losing. It's the players. But someone has to held accountable and its usually the manager because you can't fire 15 players who are playing horrible. I really like Trembley and think he is a good coach. If Dave was coaching the yankees or the Rays they would still have the same record.. Its lack of talent, not the manager.

I still say fire Macfail. He is the one that Trembley be the manager this long. He is the one that gave him the players. He is totally responsible for the mess this team has become.

Macfail needs to go. And perhaps the reason Angelos is meeting so much with Macfail is that he plans to fire him if there is no improvement soon.


Sure hope you are right atomic. That would be the BEST thing that could EVER happen to this PATHETIC team he has put together.

Seriously? Trade Markakis and Weiters?

Markakis is hitting 307 on a team that does not score runs or give him protection. He is doing a great job with never getting a pitch to drive.
Weiters has not been in the majors for 1 full season yet. He is learning on the job.

I'm frustrated as the next guy but that is just crazy talk.

Dave

iT'S TIME ALTHOUGH i WILL LIVE TO REGRET IT AS tREMBLEY IS TOO NICE A PERSON TO HAVE TO GO THROUGH THIS BUT IT'S BEST FOR THE TEAM . tHIS TEAM NEEDS A FIRERY MANAGER WHO WILL INJECT A FIGHTING SPIRIT INTO THE MINDS OF OUR GUYS . They have no spunk and fight in them . You play like your manager without spirit . And another thing I don't like about Trembley is the way he uses his pitchers . Who ever wins cosistantly when you're continually changing pitchers in a game . Like Davey Johnson says repeadedly you leave the pitcher in if he's doing well and when he tires you replace him .

Every so often I'll read where a fan says that Peter Angelos will have to pass away before the Os get better.....
This may not be true. I remind the fans that P. Angelos' son is a VP in the organization, in the same way that G. Steinbrenner's son is for the NYYs. George's son has taken over the NYYs with his dad's health failing. The same could happen with the Os. Another Angelos picking up the old one left off.
There could be another 25 years of misery.

jeff:
let us look at the whole of the
oriole nation...based on recent
results the scouting is not good,
the development of pitchers is not
good, the whole organization is not producing results..we have very little in the pie line we have few
players who would be attractive to
other teams....the problems do not
rest entirely on dt's shoulders..
i think you and other writers should
explore and identify the real problems in the orioles org...is it
the owner, the gm or other factors
let's get some real intelligence
and then we and you can state real
opinions based on facts.

...............................................................................................
Jeff Z's reply: Andy said when he was hired that his main goals were improving scouting and player development. He said several times that 'we can't just be good in these areas, we have to excel.' So doesn't he share some of the blame? Peter, for all the issues with him, didn't recommend Garrett Atkins or Michael Gonzalez, I can tell you that. There is plenty of blame to go around.

Its official..."The Plan" has failed, and Andy McPhail should be held accountable for his decisions. Allow a new GM (preferably Gerry Hunsicker) to decide who the new manager should be.
Weiters: will not morph into Joe Mauer
Jones: will not morph into Torii Hunter
Reimold: will not morph into Carl Crawford
Izturis: will not morph into JJ Hardy / Jeter
Atkins: will not morph into Adrian Gonzalez
ITS OVER. "THE PLAN" HAS FAILED.

Jeff: I can't believe some people still attack you with that "you're just trying to sell newspapers" line. As if McDonald's isn't trying to sell hamburgers ... and McDonald's hasn't had to lay off half its staff due to slumping sales.

Re Trembley: It's probably time to cut him loose, but I'd hate to see an interim guy get the job and then complicate a full-on off-season search for the right candidate, who might be a coach for another team and thus unavailable for an interview now. What I'd like to see is a caretaker manager -- somebody old and uninterested in doing the job beyond September. Frank Robinson, for example. Can you think of any similar candidates?

...............................................................................................
Jeff Z's reply: I wondered for a while whether Andy could recruit Tom Kelly, his old buddy from his Minnesota days, to take the team for a while and teach these guys how to win. However, Kelly has emphatically said for years now that he is done managing so that's obviously not going to happen.

With the current minor league system, basically bare of any future Major League talent, if the team were start this year, drafting the right types of players, the process would still take another 5 years to see some change in the system. The only way to change the current status is to acquire free agents for about 3 years. Of course they will have to be overpaid.

Of course a anager's job includesassuring consistently high performance by the players, but consider what the O's front office hs not given Trembley: a minor league player development program assuring that all o's possibly headed for the major league level know how to play the game(meaning position players demonstrate both fielding and batting competence and pitchers routinely throw the ball, so that it hits the catcher's mitt

While many to pick from, my biggest disappointment is Markakis. No leadership, no emotion, always hanging his head. What does $11 million get anymore?

You traded for a double a first basemen; you have a double a second basemen; a triple a shortstop; a 35 year old (going on 40) designated hitter playing third; a double a left fielder; an overrated catcher who should still be playing another year at the triple a level; a sensational center (just ask him) who can't catch a ball hit over his head; no long relievers and no short relievers. They have an owner that is clueless; a general manager who is waiting to become the next commissioner; a manager and coaching staff who at best should coaching at a lower level and you wonder why this team will lose 112 + games! This team with or without its injuries is little more than a good triple a team and a most definetly the worse team in the major leagues.

Boo to a bunch of losers. My ticket and concession money is going to the Frederick Keys.

Why isn't Brad Kommisk's name included for coaching the Orioles? He has demonstrated winning at all the levels that he has been assigned to.

...............................................................................................
Jeff Z's reply: He does have a really good minor league managerial record. I don't know for sure that he's not being considered. He could be in the mix. Either way, I think their long-time manager will have big league managerial experience. But somebody is going to have to manage the team in the interim.

Oh my God are they seriously considering Juan Samuel as a managerial candidate?!?!?!?! If that's true there really is no hope for this team!

Trembley, is not the culprit....Crowley, is not the culprit....You put quality players on this team....and these 2 men, are great coaches....you put what we have now....and we get this talk. Players, play the game....coaches, coach what they have in a player....to coach. In some situations, a coach, can get more out of a player than he might be capable of....but when it comes to almost an entire roster that needs that "occasional occurance" where the coach gets more....forget it. If I had a team with talent....I would look like a genious, and if I didn't....I would be Dave Trembley right now. As long as Petey Angelos is the owner of this once proud organization.....these conversations, will continue. You could bring the hottest coach in MLB in right now....and because Petey, won't spend the dough to bring in talent....he wouldn't remain the hottest coach....you might get some improvement...but NOTHING, that would turn heads.....It's really as simple as that.

If there is one thing we can all take away from this is that baseball in Baltimore has a very strong fan base, even after more than a decade of mediocrity. As fans, and the best in baseball if we're reading this blog, we know that we would all play for food money if they would let us, continue to support the O's. Trembs can not force 25+ professionals to hit, run, catch, throw, think...the fundamentals. Hustle and passion are something you cant teach, however, it doesnt matter who you are or how much your salary is, you dont have to be in the show.

Send them down. Let us play. We can still lose, but Ill hustle my butt off to first base, ride the other cats on my team and be some local talent who loves my city and loves the game.

Go in a new direction with these guys. Minnesota has a home grown cat in Joe Mauer. Lets look locally, bring some baltimore passion into the game. Look no further than -10, -12, -14, -16 Dundalk / Rosedale.

Keep the dream alive. The O's are bigger than these babies and we will be good again. Hopefully!

The lack of development of the O's core young players including Wieters, Jones, and Riemold is the most noticeable thing that bothers me. The vets includign Wigginton, Scott, and Tejada have hit relatively well. The young starters including Matusz and Hernandez simply don't look major league ready. I realize that Trembley will take the fall but what about the coaches? I love Terry Crowley but he clearly hasn't gotten through to the young hitters who continue to expand the strike zone and strike out with regularity. Replacing Trembley with Samuel is a band-aid as this team has failed for a long-time to bring in proven vets to supplement the young talent.

I agree with you Jeff, if they're going to do it, then do it with a little class, and do it soon. I've been wanting a new manager for some time now, but feel no animosity towards Trembley. I know full well that if he is fired soon, that the O's will continue to be a last place team, but I do believe that a change of manager (at least) is a step in the right direction. He has had the chance of a lifetime, he got to manage a major league team for a couple years. He certainly isn't solely, or even largely to blame for that, but I can't absolve him entirely for what the O's have done, or failed to do on the field. In the end, the manager gets paid what most of us will concede is a pretty nice income, and in turn bears ultimate responsibility for how his team performs.

I do to think that Mr.Tremely is a great guy. At a recent game he was the only guy willing to sign a ball for my 9 year old daughter- everyone else was to busy. However he amost seems to be too nice - Earl Weaver would have been thrown out of 25 games by now. He also seems to respect players more so than looking for wins - really old school as he tries to do what is right. I have never understood whey the team does not bunt more. I think the O's should keep him in the organization but he needs to go. The club is losing money and games.

120 losses! I see it coming. These young lads who wear the Oriole uniform absolutely suck in the two essential categories of the game - hitting, pitching. I was a big supporter of Trembley last year. Now I'm getting tired of his lame excuses for losing. And that Team President - Andy McFail -- "Andy are you goofing on Elvis?" "Andy - Are you sporting a .500 team?" No!,No!, No! No!

Please get rid of Trembley. He is a total idiot. He has destroyed the confidence of the younger players. It is critical for young pitchers to leave the mound after a positive performance. All year he has left a young pitcher in too long so they leave feeling horrible about their performance and lose confidence. Trembley is a moron and must go. Any change would be positive.

I don't think the Trembley issue is an easy one to figure out. The way I see it, there are 2 sides to look at it. Does a manager really make a huge difference? Consider this:

- Joe Maddon. During the tumultuous years in Tampa, the organization stayed the course w/Maddon- in spite of the obvious lack of talent around him. But as we all know, the youth movement finally blossomed and Maddon is clearly doing a good job. But prior to their success, everyone and their brother thought he should get the axe.

- Cito Gaston. Most baseball "experts" were certain Toronto would finish WORSE than we would this year. So how in the world are the Jays playing so far over their heads- even AFTER trading Halladay? Is there any doubt Gaston is the reason? Gaston is a proven winner and clearly has this team playing far beyond expectation. How? I have no idea.

The point is this- Can a manager make a huge difference? No AND yes. Where does this leave the O's? Honestly, I have no idea. Perhaps AM thinks/hopes Trembley can have the kind of success- with the proper pieces around him- that Maddon is now enjoying. While I would like to hope this is the case, the alternative must also be considered: can a good manager make a big difference? Absolutely! Contrary to what Pete Schmuck said in regards to not even Earl Weaver in his prime being able to make any difference, I would disagree. How much difference? Who knows, but Cito is this year's proof that a big difference CAN be made. Not guaranteed, but still possible.

As one who still trusts in AM's plan and oversight of all baseball operations, I also trust he is considering all these things and will make the right decision. Again, let's be glad PA isn't making the calls and letting AM do his job!

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About the bloggers
A Baltimore native, Dan Connolly has been covering sports for 14 years, and baseball and the Orioles for 10 seasons, including the past six with The Sun. His first year covering baseball on a daily basis was Cal Ripken Jr.'s final season as a player. It's believed that is just a coincidence.

Steve Gould is an assistant sports editor for The Sun, overseeing Orioles coverage. The Columbia native joined The Sun as a sports copy editor in 2006 after graduating from the University of Maryland.

Peter Schmuck has been covering baseball for a lot longer than Steve Gould has been on this earth. He is now a general sports columnist, but has been a beat writer covering three major league teams (the Dodgers, Angels and Orioles) and also spent a decade as the Sun's national baseball writer. If you want more of his insight on the Orioles and other sports issues, check out his personal blog -- The Schmuck Stops Here.


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