weiters played 3 yrs at ga tech and tore up single a ball and double a ball. it seems to me most good players go from aa ball to the majors. triple a ball isn't like it use to be 20-30-40 yrs ago. if weiters has a real good spring training let him play, especially if a couple of the bowie pitchers make the rotation. let them learn, work and grow together. plus unless the orioles bring back lenn sakata weiters is the only catcher on the roster right now. as for tillmam, he's only 20 so another yr in the minors triple a or double a would make sense. let him fill out a little more physically, strengthen his arm and gain command of various pitches. same with arrietta and matusz. let them work out any kinks in their delivery, learn to throw at least 3 different pitches with confidence. and with the pitchers i would gradually extend their innings per game to at least 7. it's absurd having starting pitchers who are programmed to go only 5 or 6 innings.

Can someone please explain why the orioles are being looked at similar to the Minnesota Twins with limited payroll. This team and the revenue it receives should be able to have a payroll in the neighborhood of 100+ million. There were reports of the club making 50 million last year and that was with the regional TV just beginning. I don't expect PA to spend 200 million but I am tired of hearing not being able to compete with the Yanks and Sox. I agree to stick with the plan but they need to sign Roberts and Markakis now and stop trying to lowball them. Enough is Enough.

Be patient and let the prospects develop. Play it smart and the breaks will come your way.

Whether due to incompetence, greed or both, the last ten Orioles years have converted me from "passionate" season ticket holder to educated consumer. Now I don't go to OPCY unless you give me tickets, the game looks interesting and the weather will be good. I pay for good baseball products and that's not happening at OPCY. Instead, I go to Philly, NY or Boston. I see fewer games...but I see good games.

That said...I would love to have a great local product to see again. The way to get that is to let the players learn in the minors. I happily pay minor league prices to see the young players at Bowie, DelMarva and Frederick. Maybe this year I'll go to Norfolk. And if these players turn out to be good enough I will once again pay go seem them in Baltimore. But not until they prove worth the price of a Major League admission ticket.

One thing I WOULD do if I was Peter Angelos is apologize. I would tell my fan base that I know I have given them a terrible product for over a decade and that I am sorry. I might also lower prices or give fans a completely free admission game or two to show I am sincere.

If there are 1 or 2 young pitchers that have the mental toughness to endure losing in the majors for a year while they improve, then bring them up. By the way, if Liz and Olsen show great improvement in 2009, then it shows that they had the mental toughness and the process of learning at the major league level will work for some pitchers. The organization should know who these guys are.

Dean, at this point, after 11 consecutive losing seasons, why rush the minor league prospects? Let them get the proper training and seasoning first. We won't / can't compete in the A.L. East now anyway. We all need to weigh the risk vs. reward of rushing these youngsters to the majors. At this point, I see a huge risk (slowing their development or destroying their confidence) and a very small reward (even if they thrive, we're still years away from competing). Now is the time to follow the plan of management. If they screw this up, we're in for another decade of disaster. My first order of business is to sign Nick long-term. Next, if BRob won't sign, trade him NOW for more prospects. The dream of competing in 2010 is still a dream. I HOPE we reach .500 ball by then, and can compete with a young, talented team by 2012. It gets harder and harder to be an O's fan in New York...but I continue to hang in there and watch every game on the MLB package. Go O's!

I THINK WE NEED TO TRUST THE O'S EXECS. FOR TO LONG WE HAVE HAD A OWNER WHO DIDNT LET GMS DO THERE JOBS AND NOW FINALLY GOOD'OL PETE HAS SOMEONE IT LOOKS LIKE HE TRUST WE HAVE DEVELOPED SOME PRETTY GOOD DEPTH DOWN ON THE FARM AND I LOOK FORWARD TO WATCHING THEM PLAY IN THE MAJORS HOPFULLY.O'S FANS ITS BEEN 11 YEARS WE CAN BE PATIENT FOR 1 OR 2 MORE

well the three o's prospects we are talking about are: 1-matusz,2-tillman,3-arrieta, all pitchers. yeah i think we should be patient. or better yet, when they're ready. let's be real, 2009 is looking bad as far as the starting pitching is concerned. so look for 2011,2012, that is for them to make any impact.

I agree with Andy MacPhail.
Do it the correct way and we will eventually come out on top. Instead of spending 180 million this year on one superstar, in a few years, we will have a team of superstars.
Oriole Fans should relish the opportunity and run to as many Oriole minor league games and Oriole games at Camden Yards, to see the future unfold.In a few years it will be hard to get a ticket.
The future looks bright and it wil be here before you know it.

Don't take this the wrong way, but do the writers at the Sun have staff meetings with open discussion of how to talk the O's fans from the ledge...and not jump from the roof?
If not, it seems that way.

O's fans are angry...and they should be. It will take some time for folks to vent their frustration...many will walk away.

I think Andy has done a better job than anyone in recent memory...but his hands are tied by the lack of rule/oversight/salary cap by MLB as a whole and a lack of conviction to win by the current O's owner.

I don't think I am alone in my opinions. Time will heal the wounds...but most O's fans really know we have almost no chance to win this coming season. Too bad.

I believe each player is different, there are some that need little time in the Minors (Will Clark) and others take some time. We need to evaluate each and decide during spring training whether they are ready!

It's imperative that the top prospects not be tossed into the fire of major league competition before they are ready. Weiters and Tillman should start this season in Norfolk. Arrieta and Matusz should start in Bowie. All can be promoted to the next level when they have success at the lower level first.Let's not kid ourselves, the Orioles are looking at another last place finish, so there is no reason to rush these guys before they are ready.

I trust Andy MacPhail because he has a good record building teams within. The owner Peter Angelos can't say the same thing for him. He does not have a good record. We may have to wait till he sell the team. Before things get moving in the direction on a faster pace. He mess up the O's record on getting FA's. Many don't want anything to with the O's. It seems he wants to make money more than having a winning team.
Now Teixeria is an Yankee, what are the O's going to with the money they offer to Teixeria?
Why don't they resign Roberts and the another good players on the team? So that at lease we have a group of good players around. While building within the system and a little luck getting a few good starting pitchers this off season. If they don't show signs of these moves, it will show us O's fans what is going on with the owner thinking (money or winning team). Ten years of losing with no signs of getting anytime soon! Angelos show us you want to win too! Or sell the team to someone like Cal who we know will do best for the team.

Don't rush the pitchers. Case in point, was Daniel Cabrera. If he had been allowed to work out the kinks with more time in Bowie and then AAA and mature mentally, he would have been a consistent part of the rotation instead of a throwaway without something the O's way. Tillman, Arieta, Bergeson, Hernandez, and Matusz should prove to be a strong pitching corps if allowed the proper time to mature rather than the sink or swim approach of the past.

Leave them in the minors until their coaches say they are ready. Bring in stop gap free agents in the meantime. Trust in Andy and have patience.

Why is it so difficult to believe that if the young guys like Weiters, Tillman, Arietta, etc are promoted to Baltimore and "fail" that they can't be sent back to the minors and then be brought back to Baltimore when they are ready? That's assuming, if you fail once, you're done forever. I don't agree with that.

I believe if any of the pitchers have a great spring they should be on the squad openning day. As for Weiters, who I feel is on the same level as Longoria, it should be a business discision similar to the rays bringing up Longoria last year.

I trust MacPhail. However with Angelos as the meddling owner we are doomed to failure.

I know the selfish fan in me wants to see all the guys you mentioned playing on opening day. I am excited about the young players the O's have and can't wait to see them contribute in the majors. I would also be more excited about going to the games to watch them play.

To push not rush the O's prospects mentioned is the best long term approach. There is no short term incentive for rushing these guys to the majors since competing for a playoff spot is unlikely regardless of their successes. Pushing involves Wieters as the starting catcher right out of spring training. As for Matusz, Arrieta, Tillman, Bergesen, Hernandez, etc. remember the lessons of Olsen and Liz. Minor league success does not mean MLB success, especially in the AL East. There will be a transition period. Starting that transition sooner rather than later speeds up the learning curve and the return of a competitve team. Tillman, and the rest of the Bowie starters are not going to learn how to get out major league hitters in Norfolk. Matusz, and Arrieta should start in Frederick and Bowie, respectively. A September call up for both should be seriously considered. If the O's had $140 to $160 mil for Tex than the rationale of keeping propspects in the minors to delay the arbitration and FA clock is ABSURD.

First, although it would have been great to see Teixeira in an O's uniform, the fact that he's not doesn't mean all is lost. The only exception is that now he is part of the dreaded Yankees. As hard as it may be to do, the O's need to allow the prospects to develop in the minors before bringing them up. I would rather have the window to close (earlier) than to have never opened it at all. If the window starts to close that means it's open. Right now our window is not only closed, it is nailed, screwed, locked and bolted shut. Mr. Angelos needs to trust Andy McPhail and keep his hands off, unless he's handing money to him of course. If the window can open only slightly it will be amazing what a slight breeze can do. It can bring hope to the fans and bring them back to the ball park. This means more money which means more money to spend, which means the window could be opened a little more. It might even mean we could open a second window and get a cross breeze blowing! Finally, the O's need to make smart draft picks and continue to make smart trades.

I still look back at "the play" that began our downslide into 12 consectutive Losing Seasons.
It is almost like that "hero" Jeffrey Maier's "creation" of a home run, has permanently stripped any wind out of our Oriole's sails.

Gosh, I can recall how we were able to "platoon a left fielder (Roenicke-Lowenstein)" into a 49 Home Run Season.
I can recall some of Crowley's miracle Pinch Hits...
I can recall "EDDIE... EDDIE..."

I DO respect that our team is TRYING to make strides, and I DO respect that we put a lid on the offer to Tex.

But, MAN it would be nice to SOME DAY, have at least a .500+ season...

The 228 is Mark Belanger's career batting average, so you know I am an Oriole fan.

I can be patient, but will Peter Angelos ever realize that it's all about pitching, pitching, pitching. He never signs any quality pitchers and when they get one (Bedard, even Cabrera) he trades them for position players like Adam Jones. The O's have had pretty good offensive teams for 11 years, but until they can pitch, .500 will remain elusive.

Well said. While it's not easy to say after 11 losing seasons, we need a little more patience. Those years weren't AM's fault.

We've got a good nucleus of three potential superstars now in Markakis, Jones and Weiters. That couldn't be said 18 months ago.

We've got more promising pitching in the minors than I can recall over the last decade. Matusz, Tillman and Arrieta get all the ink, but there's also Hernandez, Berken, Bergeson, Erbe, Patton, Butler and Mickolio to name just a few.

If/when these guys develop, we could have a solid group of young pitchers who will make Baltimore much more attractive to free agents.

As far as '09 is concerned, I don't think we're as bad as some people think. We've got a good looking outfield, a decent to good infield, and if Ray and Baez can return to some semblance of their former selves, a pretty good bullpen with some depth.

If AM can sign a couple of decent starters, '09 need not be a waste while we wait for better days.

Why don't you guys get it... This organization is going to lowball everyone, and hope for lighting in a bottle; much like Tampa Bay.

Tampa had a great year, but it's looney to think that's going to happen year after year. Once in a decade, stuff like that happens.

Have fun with the Kevin Millars, Freddie Bynums, and Juan Castros. Even though those guys are gone, it's really just a new year of the same players with different names.

Lastly, any prospect that pans out will never stay long term. If they do then they obviously don't care about winning.

I would make them prove they belong at the major league level. The better farm systems are well stocked and push the players up rather than the major league team going "save us" to the minors. Why is the Twins stay competetive on a regular basis even though the Angels, Mets, Yankees etc have players they developed? Duh they keep developing them.
It's still wrong that a yankees team can do what it does simply because it has more money. but A well run farm system (like the O's used to have) will keep the Big leagued team competitive.

The key to the Orioles is player developement. The problem as I see it is a lack of said developement. To have pitchers promoted who can not consistently throw strikes is just horrible. To have two pitchers signed young out of the Dominican Republic ( Cabera and Liz ) both with limited experience and you can not iron out fundamental flaws in their delieveries ie falling off the mound and failing to field their position is inexcusable. It sounds like a minor item but how many times has the opposition had a man on 2nd with 2 out and a little dribbler up the middle that has to be played or at least knocked down gone into center to score a run and lead to worse things. The major league coaches job should be to fine tune players not start from scratch. The last 5 starts last year it looked like Liz was getting it, Olson I am afraid is not, if the player demonstrates he can handle the higher level and he is fundamntally sound promote him if not let him troll in the minors to get it.

This is the same arguement used for rookie QB's in the NFL
If your a good player than it doesnt really matter when you are brought up to play in the majors. I am so sick of hearing that we should be patient with these young guys. Are these fragile babies?? Stop coddling them and let them play. I often hear the analogy of when the Ravens rushed Klye Boller to be the starter. Let me tell you folks Boller was never going to be good no matter how much time you gave him with the clip board. Look at Flacco. He was rushed into being the starter and although I think the stats between bollers rookie season and flaccos season is comparable there really is no comparision between Flaccos Poise

Our prospects need to be managed carefully so when they are finally brought up they can fetch maximum value in trades. I would include not only prospects but Roberts, Markakis and, as soon as he is performing consistently and productively, Jones as well. We will never be able to sustain a core group of major league talent, especially as we have now announced to all of baseball that we see ourselves as a small-market, AAAA-level team that places little or no value on putting a winning product on the field.

It matters little. We are nothing if not adept at losing and will have ample opportunity to continue to hone that skill well into the future.

There's a balance. Sure enough, Orioles fans need patience -- and have shown that for 11 difficult years. I would feel a lot more comforted if I saw the Orioles making a solid effort to extend the contracts of critical pieces that are here -- namely Markakis, and Roberts too, unless the O's can get an extraordinary return for a player that now represents the franchise more than any other. Young pitching -- as we've learned -- can be tricky. So throw all the names out and divide by four or five and see who actually develops. I also believe that there's a time for players to develop and a time for them to be brought to the majors. What's the difference between a successful major league and career minor league star? Perhaps its instilling in that minor leaguer that Tidewater, Pawtucket, and Richmond are where he's supposed to play. I think it is a real art to recognize when to bring someone up and when not to -- when leaving someone to languish in the minors a bit longer than necessary can actually destroy their major league possibilities. I'm not suggesting to rush anyone along, but only to make sure that we don't get so cautious about moving people tothe majors we help instill a minor league mentality that will prevent certain players from every making it.

I say trust MAcphail not Angelos. Whenever I hear that Angelos is involved in a decision I immediately change the channel or click onto another story. I say Wieters and Reimold(if healthy) are in the majors this year. I say we get two more veteran pitchers to make the team at least halfway competitive until our prospects are ready. The problem is we need a power hitting everyday 1st baseman. How would you address that Dean? Noone in the minors is ready.

Prospects. You mean the over-hyped young pitching. Didn't we go through this already with Loewen, Penn, etc.

Seems that Scott Boras and Tex didn't think much of our prospects since isn't the primary reason given for our failure to sign Tex was that the O's are not competitive.

You don't have to like Boras, but he is a major force and he just told the baseball world that the O's rebuilding plan isn't much to write home about.

I believe most of us O's fans are smack dab on the button in voicing ifrustration..One problem we cannot fix is being in the same division of baseball gods. Goodness playing the spenders more then one or two series per year is a killer. Nothing changes until a cap on salaries is put in place. Good luck to the owners on that point. It will not happen. Lock the gates.

Take them slow, we aren't going to be good for at least 5 years so there is no sense hurrying.

I would have signed Randy Johnson, having a legend in the clubhouse would hopefully be good for the young guys(and he would have sold tickets).
But McPhail isn't me I guess.

Did we even make Randy an offer?

A perplexing situation for the fans of O's, on whom to bring up? As a lifetime fan, I've come to realize that in most recent memory(1-5) years every pitcher who came up, got hammered and sent back down. Therefore, I must draw to the conclusion, " I don't trust Orioles coaching at any minor league level to correctly determine if the three pitchers are ready or not. Much like I don't and won't trust a word that comes out of Peter Angelos's mouth. He would pay far more attention to his ball players needs if the lot of them were in need of an attorney.

I think Wieters should be in the majors within the first few months of the season. As for the young pitchers, be far more patient with them as pitching is the big problem right now. I think we should wait with them till probably before one of them, probably Tillman, is promoted to the majors.

Once upon a time, the Braves threw some young pitchers to the fire, lumps were taken, but those guys fared OK.

Once upon a further back time, Jim Palmer threw vs. the Dodgers at what, 19? 20? Was he rushed?

I can understand why you'd allow the big three pitchers to season some more, but Wieters is putting up video game numbers in the minors. This guy has nothing more to learn there that he can't learn better in Baltimore. Bring him up.

Let the young pitchers grow in the minors. We will remain in baseball's basement if we let our pitchers come now. Confidence wil be shattered, and their career could then be affected as well. However, if one of them are ready for the majors, we should let them cut their teeth as a setup man, ala Joba Chamberlain. Let that pitcher earn and proove his way into a major league rotation.

"You don't have to like Boras, but he is a major force and he just told the baseball world that the O's rebuilding plan isn't much to write home about."

The dude that said this is right. I never thought of it like that but Boras has made the O's and the Nats look even worse then we already did. By using the teams as crutches to get bigger money and a competitive team. We are now the rear end of the MLB.............KC is pretty low too.

As for the topic. Bring em' up. As long as the Yanks and Sox still have money and don't some how go bankrupt we will never compete. So depressed.............. ;. (

fact: The franchise is still generating a lot of revenue regardless of its poor performance.

point: There is money to spend. I am not advocating spending Texeira-type money but...

fact: We only have one proven starter going into this season so far.

point: If we don't sign at least two starters (doesn't have to be for megabucks), we are most likely going to witness a season worse than last year since we at least had some semblance of a rotation.

If the O's were committed to winning the first thing they should do is lock up BRob and Nick.They should also have an open competiton for the rotation in spring training and let the best men win.They stuck with Adam Jones last year despite his horrible strike zone management.Why not give Reimold his shot this year? Bergesen isn't considered a top prospect so let him have a shot at the rotation.Tillman and Arietta should probably stay in the minors most of the year.

i think we should trade them all to the astros for geoff blum

ntema ndungidi would be my leadoff hitter(so many tools!!!)

I DO NOT TRUST ANGELOS.....
HE IS JUST HOARDING THE MONEY TO LINE HIS SONs POCKETS
HOW CAN ANYONE TRUST THEM AFTER 11 YEARS OF LOSING AND THE COMMON DENOMINATOR.......... PETER ANGELOS

I hear, and I understand the "logic" of the McPhail plan, but is there a Plan B in place if these highly touted pitchers in the minors don't pan out at the Major League level ? I've been a fan of the Os for over 40 years, but I can't stand the thought of having to withstand another 5 year plan if this one doesn't work. The media can spin all they like about how "exciting" it will be to see the new players develop, but that isn't much fun and won't put any fans in the seats until they win consistantly on the field.

Of course I trust them, but you need a plan on how you bring the young guys around. I know they have a plan on how they would like to do it. They are not about to share that with me or anyone in a blog. I would hope that they put Tillman and Matusz in the bullpen and let him pitch their way out of the bullpen, have teams only see them pitch only one time around in the lineup. David Hernandez should be on the big club also. They should be with the best coaching at this point of their careers. Wieters can learn in spring training get 20-25 games in, instead of triple A work. I guess we will see a lot of them in spring training, and I am sure the O's are going to have a plan and a back up plan. I am sure if they see that they are not ready by the end of spring training they will acquire an arm or two to get them into 2010. Hendrickson is an interesting pick up.
Dean: What would you like to see a bunch of guys signed that have career 5.00 and better ERA's for their career that are 33-35, or see if the young guys can learn and refine themselves in a throw away season at the MLB level?

I think it's BS that pitchers need an extra year in the minor leagues. If they happen to be one of the top 5 players for a rotation spot by all means he deserves to start. Why risk an arm injury piching meaningless minor league games. Glavine and Maddux turned out alright after disasterous rookie campains. Glavine was 7-17 and madduz was 6-14 with a 5.6 ERA. If a pitcher doesn't have it they just won't have it. Get there feet wet earlier rather then later.

So much to say. Some of you say the O's "lowball" every offer. Well, the fact is they didn't lowball on Teixiera. Their initial offer was 20 mil a year for 7 years and they plainly said they were very flexible on their offer. He signed for 8 years at 22.5 mil per. Do any of you think "flexible" wouuldn't have accomodated that offer? Really?
Did any of you see anything that indicated that Boros made a counteroffer? Teixiera did not want to play for Baltimore-period!

Second, some of you think NONE of the O's top pitching prospects, and they have quite a few of them, will pan out. None? Really?

Some of you say Patton and Albers will never pitch again. Really? Reports are both will be healthy in spring training.

Some of you say top free agents will not sign with Baltimore. That has some validity and the only way to correct that is to make this team competitive. Folks, the truth is it's all good about Baltimore the city, the ballpark, the region and the fans. There's nothing there to scare any top free agant away, IF THE TEAM BECOMES COMPETITIVE!

Some of you say the team will be lucky to win 62 games this year. The team has better than average offense, good defense now that we have a real SS, and better than average relief pitching IF we get 3-4 starters who can throw 105 pitches in 7 innings rather than 5. The ONLY thing that is keeping this team from a better than .500 record is starting pitching and the Os are in big, big trouble there. Maybe we fix that by moving Johnson and Albers into the starting rotation and signing 1 or 2 servicible starting pitchers (not the 5.09 lifetime ERA we signed yesterday). Maybe we fix it by throwing 1 or 2 of our top prospects into the fire and give them all the coaching and emotional support we can. We know one thing for certain. By openning day we have to have 5 starting pitchers ready to go. We only have 1 now. AM-DO YOUR THING!

I agree with the "each player should be handled different" crowd but my rough guidlines would be:

The high draft pick prospects that are coming out of college should be fast tracked to the majors. The big time D-1 programs are another form of single A ball and the big time players in those programs should normally be placed in Double A ball to start at a minimum.

Obviously the high school guys and some of the really young Latinos need much more time to develop. Not just baseball, but life skills and what it means and takes to be a professional athlete.

Have a real plan and be realistic in player evaluations

I have no real faith in the O's front office. Scouts regard Wieter as a Mauer with power and we're saying that Zaun will handle most of the 2009 catching. Stengel brought Mantle up as a 19 year old. Wieter is 23.

The pitchers the O's sign tend to be overrated. They also have no mentors (i.e. good major leaguers to learn from). Guthrie is a nice pitcher but he does not match up well against AL East number ones (or twos or threes).
After him, le deluge.... The O's should go after Sheets and Oliver Perez to put some meat on the pitching staff and to take heat off the pitchers when and if the Os start to bring up the more talented ones. They also need to find another bat - Abreu comes to mind. Please, lets not talk about washed up right handed hitters like Sexton. Wiggington would be okay and could play third in the future but we won't sign him. Oh, well, at least we signed Ray.