"I’ll take Virginia, Syracuse, Duke, Hopkins and Princeton ............."

I think the last three tournaments that Duke has been a part of has shown you they are far from being money to win it all.

5 teams the last 30 years, and please post more often especially about Hopkins since as an alum I follow my jays.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Men%27s_Lacrosse_Championship

[i]In a game where only five teams have won a title in the last 40 years[/i]

Actually seven in D-I, but hey who's counting? Oh, that's right, you are. BTW, they've only been running the tournament for 38 years.

I don't think you'd give much away to anybody in an ego contest.

That was a typo. Charlie and Jayfan are correct. It's five teams in 30 years.

I would make that bet with 3 teams, not 5....Syracuse, UVA, and JHU...We do need some different schools to win...It will be an amazing day when that happens...

As a NJ HS lax buff since son grad '90 from ML, 20 games in last 2 yrs. after NY & MD the greatest indicator of what's happening is to look at NJ, and that in the near future, ML and DB will not be the "usual" winners: that undefined moxie and spirit will insert itself into the championships. It is not over this year for either team, but there are a lot of games to come that will show equalization. This should also happen in D1 but it is a business by then, where in HS only the preps treat it as business.

Diverse winners is great for NJ and all LAX.

Fastest game on 2 feet and fastest growing all over the country. WOW. Nice to be hooked into it!

gottalovelax.

While I understand that only a small handful of teams have won national championships in the past few decades, 11 different teams have made it to the championship game.

Perhaps Quint has somewhat of an argument that there are at least 10 teams who could contend for a national championship. Besides, with the increasing number of high quality lacrosse players out there, more than a handful of schools are bound to win championships. I don't think that the day when a school other than Hopkins, Virginia, Princeton, Duke, or Syracuse wins a national championship is as far out of reach as some may believe it to be.

i can't argue with you, but the time is coming. i can still remember when Duke and UVA were newbies. when i was introducing club level lax to NM Tech in '81, and relying on Jimmy Darcangelo for all the support he could spare, i remember ND being a club team. i'm in San Clemente now and watched Mission Viejo play Trabuco in a high school game on tv a week ago. out of conceit, i refuse to believe that they were better than the team i assembled at NM Tech, but, in truth, either could have kicked our butts.

I don't know maybe Quinn is right. There have been quite a few upsets this year and just a few years back a scrappy UMass team ran a string of upsets all the way to the championship game.

Maryland, Cornell, Navy, North Carolina and Notre Dame all have a decent shot.

i don't think quint's statement is that far fetched. for me, it elicits a "hmmmmmmmmm... maybe."

without quoting weaver to not fuel his ego, i don't think it warrants, "there is no chance in hell a team other than princeton, jhu, uva, syracuse will win this year".

who is being more shortsighted and arrogant?

Maybe Quint is stretching it a little bit but I would agree that there are 10 teams that could make the final four and once they are there anything can happen. Take a look at the FF's over the last couple of years - UMass in 06 and Deleware in 2007

I would be surprised in the least if we saw half of the seeded teams lose this weekend which is the point I think Quint is trying to get at that depth is building in DI lax to the point you are seeing Syracuse miss the FF one year and then the tournament the next - Hopkins is surely playing with fire as it has had mini-lossing streaks the last 3-4 years.

A couple of aspects to keep in perspective here...

- Division I lacrosse didn't pop up out of nowhere in 1972... It's been a varsity sport at some schools for 100 years. (I remember playing at Lehigh and seeing their team pictures from the 1890s)

- Unless a D1 FB school has a long, rich history of lacrosse, it's very hard to fund an elite D1 Lax program because of Title IX. Notre Dame is probably the exception to the rule.

I played for Villanova in the early 80's... the traditional powerhouse programs at the time were Hopkins, MD, UVa, Cornell, Penn and Navy. That's about it. Syracuse was just about to hit critical mass. Villanova and Georgetown ran similiar programs... minimal funding... mix of D1 and D3 teams on the schedule. Villanova chose to bring back FB... Georgetown brought on board Dave Urick and got serious about lacrosse. Georgetown zoomed rapidly into a national power, Villanova slowly built a solid program on a shoestring budget. Ironically, Title IX has both hurt and helped a school like VU... hurt, in that it kept the school from adding scholarships for men's lacrosse; After looking at the talent VU has now, I'd have to say Title IX has helped recently, because there are relatively few D1 rosters slots for all the kids playing HS lacrosse. It's bad for Men's lacrosse at a macro level, but certainly has dramatically increased the talent at the "other" 54 D1 schools.

Net-net - I don't disagree with the elitist 5 statement, but I see things changing in the near future. Just look at some of this year's scores and the writing is on the wall... even with Title IX in place.

Just like the BCS, we've got to be careful that we assume "the 5" are the best teams before the season starts and weigh them that way before they've even stepped on the field. If that happens, then the Final Four participants will never change...

billbutt27:

I'm not sure who you were watching in the "early 1980's" when you played at Villanova, but four of the five teams you name were not "traditional powers" by any commonsense definition. There were three -- and only three -- traditional powers from 1980 to 1990: Hopkins, Syracuse, and North Carolina. Penn has never been a "power." MD last won in (I believe) 1975. Navy and UVA were competitive then but were hardly "powers." Cornell had its great run in the late 70's.

Jeb
I'm referring to late 70's / early 80's. I guess I should have been less specific. During that period...
- Cornell had great teams
- Syracuse didn't win their first championship until '83
- UNC didn't hit the scene until Willy Scroggs left Hopkins and went to Chapel Hill
- Tony Seaman had very good teams at Penn. Perennial Top 10 team back then.

In actuality, the late 70's were all Hopkins, MD and Cornell until UNC and Syracuse came along.

Dude! How can you bust on the Mel Kiper of Lacrosse?!? Yeah, he's reachin' a bit with the 10 teams, although you could add Carolina and Cornell to the mix this year. But he's out their trying to make a name for the sport while trying to make a name for himself. Give him a little break.

Say what you will about Quint, but the guy is polished and knows his stuff. I think we can put up with his attitude in exchange for good, tight, professional coverage on ESPNU. Did you see the NCAA selection show on CBS College Sports network (or whatever they are called)? It looked like it was being broadcast from Buffalo Bill's basement in Silence of the Lambs. Quint's contemporary, Paul Carcaterra is a nice enough guy, but he should be working at Home Depot.

Beloved Jeb:

Just for completeness, and I do agree with what you said, lest you forget--Cornell played in the 87 and 88 Finals. Maryland's 87 team was undefeated until their demise to Hopkins, (Zim's last great coaching at Hopkins), in the Semis. UVa was perenially dangerous and loaded with talent witnessed by the many All MSA A conference players that went there (LeDoyne, Dave Willis, Peter Sheehan etc)--however, they were coached by Ace Adams--enough said.

I expect more from a Moorehead Scholar! (LOL!)

Any Penn grads want to name an All American from the 80s? I can't remember any.

I'm no Penn grad, but Josh Hall was an All-American I think. And maybe Billy Morrill. They played for Seaman. He had a great goalie too.

I don't know, I think Quint has a point. As a disappointed Hound fan, I'd point out that the Hounds lost by one goal to Syracuse, Hopkins, and Notre Dame. Those games could have gone either way, and the Hounds aren't even in the top 10. With the exception of Villanova and Siena, I think any of the teams in the tournament might take the crown.

billbutt:

Well said. I didn't mean to be snarky. With NCAA lacrosse existing as long as it has, I suppose there's now greater opportunity to debate who the "traditional" powers have been. For me, a working definition would include only those teams that have actually won it all, though I recognize this would exclude some teams which have been very good for sustained periods. It is important to me to exclude Duke because, well, I hate Duke.

Gilman Grad 81: Who are you? Methinks you're probably a Don, masquerading as someone with a better high school diploma.

As to Quint: He does certainly tend toward hyperbole, but what really drives me nuts is his reversion to cheesy, 1980's lax vernacular, often at critical moments. He will blurt out something like, "Man, that was a sick wormburner!", and I think, this is the voice of lacrosse in this country?

Oh my gosh, I always thought that CBS had the franchise for most of the NCAA BB tourney. So ESPN having a monopoly of the NCAA Lax is not all that unusual. Mr. Weaver it is fairly standard to grant exclusive TV rights to A network, especially with a sport that does not command an audience.

Mr. Kessenich was, in fact, promoting his network's coverage of the ESPN lax games. Thank God that ESPN promotes its lax games.

Finally, this is a year in which your big 5 may not dominate. UVa has had a 2-3 game string of playing badly. The Orange have been up and down. Duke has recently surged; how long will it continue? The Princeton Tigers have big wins and one inexplicable loss. JHU will require a major miracle to get far (Mr. Weaver's home town bias?)

We don't know how good ND is (#6). Cornell (#7) has looked great in many games, has an incredible midfield and an exceptional coach. Brown's Jordan could fire up (#*8). UNC (#9) looked very good against UVa. UMass, Hofstra, Navy, Maryland and UMBC (so that's up to 14) all have the depth that could carry them to a Monday game. Did many predict that Delaware would make it to the Final 4; so hope springs eternal for others ('Nova?).

Your observation that history tends to repeat itself may be useful, but is hardly insightful. Maybe in your Baltimore perch you have not noticed, but the sport is growing. It would not be a bad thing for the sport if a team without orange or blue uniforms parades the trophy around Foxboro.

Quint is good, but not perfect. Your invective directed at him suggests that your real problem is not about his knowledge, but with his standing in the LAX community, his good looks or JHU's placing in its Hall of Fame. The Sun used to be known for its support of the sport. Does your diatribe suggest a new editorial direction?

Oh come on, Mr. Murdock---criticism of Quint is not allowed? Although certainly deserving of his place in the Hopkins Hall of Fame for his play, (even though it took him a while to get his act together his senior year), Jeb failed to mention Q's cloying "spin the rock!" and "got up in his grill" euphemisms that make me scream at the TV. Furthermore, he fails to point out or analyze the critical mistakes of that which he knows best, and that's goaltending! Well, at least he can properly explain the possession rule after a shot. One year they had a Syracuse grad as an announcer saying, "closest one to the endline as the ball goes out of bounds." Amazing....

Moreover, UMass, Hofstra, UMBC, MD, and USNA have no depth--that's why they're ranked where they are.

JW-good pick up on Hall and Morrill. I keep thinking that they had a good goalie too, but the name escapes me, and I keep thinking Charlie Brown, but he played for W&L. Maybe he had a similar name....

Jeb, although I am Catholic as most Dons are, I most certainly am a grad--I have the pic of RCSF handing me the sheepskin to prove it!

Dear Gilman grad-

I did not that Quint is not perfect. The point of my comment that arguing that Quint was "pimping" for ESPN was a bit silly. JW was also attacking ESPN's monopoly status. We should all be thankful that ESPN has the LAX duty-- they are the best at promoting a sport.
Yes the schools that you mentioned lack depth, but they COULD (not will) make it to the Final 4 with a hot goalie or a FOGO (see Delaware's run).

Congratulations on the sheepskin.

You should have lost your hypothetical bet.
Quint's in TV, where lying is acceptable. Go easy on the little guy. Could you talk for the entire MLL draft?
I think the domination of titles is more important to die hard fans, not the casual fans. Great games, not the teams playing them, are more important to them.