the answer is no.
Give us Philly!

There is nothing I hate more in the world of sports than the football team from Washington. There is no one I respect less than a Washington Redskins fan.

I have no real care for the Nationals at this point, but there geographic proximity to the Redskins makes them wholly despicable.

It'll take both teams getting good for it to ever be a "rivalry." I do hate the Nationals, though, and I'll enjoy scoffing in the faces of the many people in W hats who were clearly O's fans three years ago.

I wish the Redskins would just go away. I don't even enjoy hating them, the way I enjoy hating the Steelers, Cowboys, and even Patriots. The Redskins are just a herpe to the league.

History lesson: George Preston Marshall, former Deadskins owner, once wanted to keep football out of Baltimore. He failed. Sucks to be him. History repeated itself when the devil was reincarnated in the form of Jack Kent Cooke. He tried to not only keep the NFL out of Baltimore, but also tried to build a stadium in Laurel, to make it look as if moving another team to Baltimore would "infringe" upon their territory. Tough luck, Jack. Looks like you didn't get your way.

Whenever those snotty wine and cheese DC fans say that we have no reason to hate them, I love to jump in with an "au contraire."

Also, why the heck do we have to share a sports network (MASN) with DC? Why can't THEY just have everything on Comcast SportsNet, and Baltimore gets it's programming on MASN? Am I the only one that think this just makes too much sense?

Get John Riggins off the air already! And a note to Anita Marks: take down those stupid Nationals jerseys in your studio! WE DON'T CARE ABOUT DC!

It's like a lot of Baltimore/Maryland rivalries: one-sided. Sure, we hate the Yankees and Duke - but they could care less about us.

I was actually happy when the Nats came to DC, because now the O's just belong to us. It might not be good for Petey's bottom line, but I'm glad there are fewer lawyers, yuppies, and federal parasites in the stands than there used to be.

So even though I hate all things Washington, I still have a little soft spot for the Nats. Unless they get good and inspire a 'Nats Nation' of bandwagon fans, in which case I reserve the right to hate them too.

The rivalry between Baltimore and the Washington Redskins was really Baltimore against George Preston Marshall the owner of the Redskins.He kept Baltimore from getting a NFL team for years.When we finally got a team he had to be paid off. Those days you could not mention the name Marshall in Baltimore.

It’s hard to feel a rivalry based on our games with the Senators. Their best players were Chuck Hinton, Jim King, and later Frank Howard. They had no pitching and the Orioles creamed them for years.

I’ll never forget when Frank Robinson connected for two grand slams in one game in 1970, one off Joe Coleman and the other off Joe Grzenda.

The Senators had seats painted in the upper deck in RFK where Gonzo Frank Howard, swinging the bat like a toothpick, would deposit tape-measure blasts.

A rivalry now? Sure, let’s start one. Let’s play hard and go out and dominate the Nats.

In terms of Baltimore—Washington baseball history, seems only natural that the Birds will want to continue their winning tradition.

Please give Frank a cold one as we remember his two-grand slam performance, which I recall as being all the more memorable because it came shortly after his dramatic catch saving the game as he pulled down what would have been a home run and banged his back squarely on top of the right field wall at Fenway.

Next time up in that extra inning game, Frank was too hurt to swing away, but he bunted and started a big rally (featuring an Andy Etchebarren shot off the Green Monster) that won the game for the Orioles.

The greatest leader the Baltimore Orioles have ever had--Frank Robinson.

Eh, I despise most things DC just like your friends, but I don't consider O's/Nats to be a rivalry. It might possibly become one someday; it's just not one now on its own merits. There's no history. MLB seems to want some, but I chuckle when they try because they're so obvious and it's lame. The larger rivalry between the two cities can't seem to make O's/Nats into anything.

The NFL has done better at creating identity and rivalries, which is ironic since the NFL and the NBA only seem to care about team history and identity insofar as how it can be packaged and sold at any given time, especially to new customers ... sorry, fans ... after a team has moved (i.e., the possibly forthcoming "Oklahoma City Sonics," should the team not adopt a new identity in the next city)

On this O's/Nats issue specifically, I'm reminded of when the Dodgers and Giants moved to CA and the team owners artificially recreated the rivalry out there, based on the dislike between the citizens of those two cities. It worked out there, but I think they could have called the two teams anything else and a rivalry would have sprouted up.

MLB thinks they can do this again across the board, but in Baltimore, I don't think so. Baltimoreans know all too well when "the league" is trying to artificially manufacture loyalties and rivalries and such. We saw our old football team get sold to their new customers ... sorry, fans ... in such a fashion.

In fact, I don't even recall everybody around here immediately adopting the "Ravens," instead preferring to have our old identity back, along with the traditional (a word that gets lost at the intersection of sports culture and commerce) rivalries that grew organically with the city.

So, I think you're right in that we'd rather just root against the usual MLB suspects --NYY, BOS, and TOR-- that visit often each year and have for many years now. It's pretty natural to do so. The league isn't trying to tell us that we should, such as they are with this whole Nats deal.

And since I am sensitive to history as it is, not as it's sold to me by the leagues, I personally root very hard against DC's football team --in the same vein as your father-- and until there's some actual bad blood between or about the O's and Nats "rivalry," I just can't get up for the Nats the same way I can the Washington football team.

Now if MLB had sold the Nats to John Kent Cooke ... :)

No, but only because the Nats are so new and so bad. Once they become a major league caliber team, it's possible an interleague series with them could become more intriguing. As for other DC teams, I hate the Redskins with a passion, just like your father (although I am more your contemporary). When the Skins were actually successful when I was in college in Texas, I actually did at least feign being a fan, probably as a rebellion against the obnoxious Cowboy fans who surrounded me (they're just as obnoxious as Skins fans, or more if that's possible). When I came back home after college, the hatred returned. That said, I do root for the Wiz ("Let's Go Wiz!") and the Caps. I can only blame the distinction on us not having an alternative I guess, and those teams having better, less hateable owners.

It's not a rivalry to me, at least not yet. I grew up a Baltimore sports fan, but not in Baltimore itself. I was a Colts and Orioles fan, and felt a sense of smug superiority over those that cheered for the 'Skins and Senators.

Until George Allen came to coach the Redskins. Then I disliked them. And I still am not a fan, even though I now live in Montgomery County, where it seems everyone is either a 'Skins fan or came from some other part of the country. But I did always respect and admire Joe Gibbs.

As for baseball, I'll go see a Nats game or two each year, same as for the Orioles. But I'll always be an O's fan. I would love to see a Parkway (World) Series between the teams, and I will root for the Nats whenever they play anyone - especially the Mets or Pirates - except when they play against the O's.

But a rivalry? Not yet.

I don't see there being a rivalry from my perspective, being a native Baltimorean. As you said there's no history and no real reason to despise the Nationals. Now from Washington's point of view there might be reason. Just as a lot of us hate the Redskins for their ownership doing everything it could to keep and NFL team out of Baltimore some who might have wanted a MLB team in Washington might resent the Orioles for all Angelos did to keep a team out of there.

Rivalry? No. But I think Interleague play is stupid and run its course. Lets get back to playing AL teams that matter. Having a loss vs a NL team shouldn't help decide the AL Wild Card or such.

No, it is not a rivalry. I think our rivals will always be the teams in the division. The O's and the Rays have a good rivalry going as our games with each other have always been intense. Even when the Rays were lousy. I second your Dad's opinion, I hate the redskins. It seemed when the colts left, redskins were being shoved down our throats.

Geographically speaking, it's easy to see why the powers want to deem the O's/Nats as a rivalry. In my opinion though, there is absolutely no merit for the claim. The Natspos haven't been around long enough to forge a genuine rivalry with the Orioles. There is nothing that conjures up hate and venom when I think of them, unlike teams like the Red Sox, Yankees, or even the Pirates. The Nats are just too irrelevant for my disdain. I honestly couldn't care less about them, and they're not even on my radar.

As for DC sports as a whole, I grew up hating the Redskins, mostly in the shadow of my father. Over the years though, I've grown to respect the Redskin fan base because they've had to endure the same mismanagement and ineptness that us Oriole fans are quite familiar with. A once flagship franchise run into the grown. We can all definitely relate. Yet, the fans are still as diehard as when they were hoisting Lombardi trophies in the 90's. In an otherwise fair-weather sports town, the Redskins are King. My hate for them has greatly diminished over the years because I'm obviously more concerned with the Ravens. Don't get me wrong, you'd never catch me rooting for the burgundy and gold, but the intense hatred I used to have for them has all but evaporated. I choose to dedicate all my hate for the Pittsburgh Steelers now.

All in all, I don't see any good reason why a Baltimore fan would cringe at Washington sports teams. I find that people who still harbor hate for all things DC are either still bitter from the past (Jack Kent Cooke, Polin, etc.), or they've simply got an inferiority-complex.

At this point, there is no rivalry between the Orioles and Nationals. However, there will always be a rivalry between Baltimore and Washington sports teams. It will eventually develop if the Nationals get good and all those obnoxious DC fans start bragging. It happened in the 70's when the Redskins became a good team and starting hassling Colts fans, then really got obnoxious when they started making it to the Super Bowls as we lost the Colts.

Yes, we Baltimore fans still cringe as the Washington fans and media are also anti-Baltimore.

The Os-Nats rivalry is about as exciting as the Os-Expos rivalry in the late 1990s. At least the Expos had a few exciting players to watch back then.

Like I said before, the only thing resembling a rivalry here is when Baltimore fans yell "Ohhhh!" during the National Anthem at the Nats ball park (and sometimes at Skins games). They hate it.

Please everyone lift there glasses and lets here the best Connolly's bar salute we have to offer. To Dan's dad. Hip, Hip, Hooray!

I'm living outside of Philly, so I would much rather have a O's/Philly rivalry. With my wife as a Philly fan, that much easier to drag her to games. Plus some games in my backyard would be nice.

Mark Teixeira in a Baltimore road jersey! Get onboard:
http://bringmarkhome.withthispetition.com

While we may not have a real hatred or even a dislike for the Nats, could they have a dislike for us? Mr. Angelos tried pretty hard, for a long time to keep a team from coming to DC, could they harbor resentment towards us, even though we hate the guy probably as much, if not MORE than they possibly do?

I remember going to a concert in DC right after the Nats were announced to be coming to town. Team paraphanalia(sp?) had just been released to the market and there were Nats hats everywhere. I was proudly wearing my throwback O's Cap, as I have it sewn to my head, and the band leader made it a point to announce how happy they had their own team to root for. And then someone "by mistake" spilled thier beer on me. And this wasn't a hostile crowd, and I wasn't picking fights. So maybe, just maybe, they have resentment towards us. In which case, maybe there is a rivalry, even if we dont know it.

I understand "old school Baltimore guy", I am one. I would rather be sold into slavery than root for the Redskins, if they were playing Hell I would root for the Devil. As for the Bullets & Caps, I always have rooted for them, just driving past the Municipal Ruins, aka Civic Center, and you understand Abe Pollen. O' & Nats will become a rivalry, WAB

No rivalry, at least not from Baltimore's side. We don't have any history with the ex-Expos.

From DC's side, I'm sure they want to stick it to Angelos. It's not like Baltimore fans are going to defend the guy, so who really cares?

I can't even name a Nat - is Nick Johnson still on that team?

Barry,

How could forget Harmon Kilbrew or Eddie Yoast. Great story about Frank though. Let me get you a drink while we dig up names like Gil Kohn (I am still not sure if that's with a K or a C). I remember Diamond Jim Gentile hitting 2 grand slams against the Twins in Minn. They came in the same inning or back to back innings. I think in back to back innings. Your right about Frank. He ranks in the top 10 in all of baseball. He was aqll a round great, never got in trouble, and was a leader and I mean leader by example.

Ron, I agree with you, get John Riggins off the air. He is terrible. And Anita Marks, take down those stupid DC jerseys.

I don't really care about the gnats either way, but I loathe the deadskins so much it transends all sports to the point I hate all DC teams.

Rivalry???? NO!!! Never was years ago and never will be in the future. When you think of the games played over the years in the O's history, not many come to mind include a team in DC. Today this is more meadia driven to give them print and talk show agendas.

Ask the players and I'm sure they'll tell you there's no rivalry and how could there be, it's not like they are playing each other 18 times a year?

Hail to the Redskins!!! Hail Victory!!!!!

Go O's!!!!!!!!

C
A
P
S
CAPS, CAPS, CAPS

Ok, first of all let me say that I was born in DC, and have lived in Montgomery County most of my life. At 7 years old, I became a 'Skins and ORIOLES fan. I have grown up living between Baltimore and DC, w/no baseball team in DC and no football team in Baltimore when I started liking sports. So for me, I have no problem loving the 'Skins and loving the O's- always will! Can't say I really hate the Ravens, b/c it's still Baltimore and some of the Ravens fans are my fellow O's fans- no problem there- I just don't follow the Ravens, die hard 'Skins fan- only! And also, I have no hatred for the Nats- especially w/them being a NL team. However, 2 things on this subject get me fired up: 1- Baltimore fans hating the Redskins...why?! The 'Skins had NOTHING to do with the Colts being taken from Baltimore. And I'm not saying that them taken was a good thing- Colts should have never been taken from Baltimore. 2- It also angers me when so called former "O's fans" just start liking the Nats just b/c they are the new team and the O's have been bad for 10 years. These fans who used to come to the Yard, cheer for the O's, love Cal, etc and are now Nats "fans"- makes me sick! REAL fans stick w/their team...NO MATTER WHAT! Sure, Angelos has royally messed things up, and needs to sell- TO CAL (but I do think he has made a turn for the best in giving reign to McPhail). Real sports fans should like our teams b/c of who they are, not how they play or how they are managed.

As far as the potential "rivarly", obviously there is none right now b/c of a few factors: 1. We are in separate leagues; 2. Neither team has been good since Nats came in '05; 3. There is no history between the franchises. Most of the good rivalries in sports are between teams in same division- 'Skins/Cowboys, Sox/Yankees, Duke/NC, etc. I think the "rivalry" seems to be more between bitter fans towards both teams, than between the teams themselves. Personally, I would love to see the day when both stadiums are consistently packed out, both teams are winning and, best case scenario...A WORLD SERIES! Now that might fire up a true rivalry!

GO O'S!!

While we're on the subject of getting Riggins off the air --- How bout getting Anita Marks off the air too??? In fact, I think she belongs in Washington, so I can keep on hating all things Washington.

And although I do not have a specific hatred for the Nationals, I do hate where they are from, and all their fans. So in a sense, yes, I see it as a rivalry. And I hope we kick their a$$.

The only rivalry I see with the Nationals is over MASN:

1. The O's should be on MASN EVERY game. Put the Nats on MASN2.

2. There is no such thing as a "Classic" Nationals game!

3. I agree, get Riggins out of here. Give Roch, Schmuck or Stan the fan a show, and make Anita a ball girl.

I'm always amused by the Baltimore viewpoint of how the Redskins "kept" football out of Charm City. The level of hypocricy is breathtaking considering how much Mr. Angelos and Baltimore did to keep baseball out of Washington all these many years.

That being said I don't think there is much of a rivalry, and if there is one it is friendly in nature. I grew up in Northern Virginia, and considered the Orioles my "home" team. Attended 10-20 games a year, and developed an affinity for the City of Baltimore and Oriole fans in general. Like everyone there, it was sad to see Angelos run the team in the ground for so many years, and it's still hard for me to contain my bitterness towards him for doing everything he could to keep baseball from returning to Washington. He spent years focused on this instead of focused on developing a better product for his fans.

I am one of those people who think it's great to have 2 baseball teams in the region. One in the AL, one in the NL. They are rarely at home at the same time, so fans like me can see baseball all spring and summer by driving just an hour at most. Every team comes through Washington and Baltimore, which is a dream to a baseball fan like me. Also, both teams have really wonderful ballparks, different in nature but great facilities, and if my friends in Baltimore can get over their "hatred of all things DC" they may appreciate it as well.

I'll be there for 2 games this weekend, and will enjoy rooting for the Nats, but will be back soon to root for the Orioles.

Hey Jim,

We hate the SKINS not because they had anything to do with the Colts leaving Baltimore. It has to do with your pathetic owners preventing us from getting teams. George Preston Marshall and Jack Kent Cooke.

The only thing we share in common , Skins and O's, is we each have short/dimunitive owners with a Napoleanic complex who meddle too much.

Ten or fifteen years ago, I felt a strong dislike for all the DC teams and so forth. As the areas continue to gradually merge in a big megalopolis and the whole Washington blocking Baltimore from getting a football team thing continues to fade into the past, though, I'm actually starting to feel as though it's all one market in a lot of respects. I lived in the southwest United States for a while and when you're away from the Baltimore region for a while, really, when you see a Wizards or Caps game or something on television and you're hard-pressed not to feel you're watching something from back "home" -- heck, even the Redskins to an extent. Then I moved to PA where it's a battle between Baltimore-Washington coverage and Philadelphia-Pittsburgh stuff in terms of what games and channel we get, and again it almost seems like Baltimore and Washington are hard to separate.

So many people nowadays might live in Baltimore and work in DC, or grow up one place and live in the other as an adult just by moving a few minutes north or south, etc.. There's a lot more intermingling and people with legitimate roots in both places (Though I'm a Baltimore guy and grew up being a Baltimore guy living outside the immediate suburbs but within the region, I do have some of what one might call roots in DC also). The more we have of that, the more it's hard to draw a sharp line somewhere around Columbia and say we're entirely two separate camps.

Baltimore has a very distinctive flair to it -- more working class, crab eating, Natty Boh drinking, those great local accents -- and DC is a more white collar and political. But in the end, I think it's becoming more like the difference between Brooklyn and Manhattan than the difference between Detroit and Miami or something.

If we embrace the megapolis concept fully, there are a lot of bonuses to it, I've become a huge Caps fan the last couple years, for example -- watch a ton of games. People do it with the Wizards as well. If people move, they can still watch their favorite teams easily despite moving across some sort of invisible line. If people want to watch extra baseball and the O's aren't on, the Nats are available to watch. Ultimately I think if we can get all the Ravens games televised in DC, that'll help build our fan base in places like Frederick and Hagerstown that get DC channels, and maybe make us a secondary team in the DC metro. We in Baltimore can watch the Redskins if the Ravens aren't on and, despite all the reasons to hate them, have the option of just seeing how their season is developing as it develops, in a way that's hard to do with random national games where you might watch teams once or twice a year.

There are all kinds of advantages to this concept once everyone can get beyond the us and them mentality. The us and them mentality isn't intrinsically wrong, it's just sports and it can be fun to divide into camps like that and have rivalries, I just think increasingly it doesn't reflect the real dynamic of the region. We're more like two boroughs in the same giant city more, and it's only going to be more so in the future. We can be distinctive without being separate.

Why do we dislike the Sawx and Yanks? Because their obnoxious fans invade our stadium every year and those two teams get a ton of press while we get next to nothing. Why do we dislike the Blue Devils? Because their fans are obnoxious and they get a ton of press while we get next to nothing. Why do we dislike the Steelers? Because they get a ton of press while we get nothing but disrespect (I gotta say that I've never met a Steelers fan who I didn't like). So, when it comes to the O's and Nats, their won't be a rivalry on this end until one team gets really good and the other team plays the heartbreaker over and over. In addition, until DC fans start flocking up here and become obnoxious, and we start flocking to DC and become obnoxious ourselves, their won't be a rivalry b/t the O's and Nats. I agree w/some of the earlier comments that they may dislike us because of Angelos, and I can understand that.
As for the Redskins, there is actual dislike for them in this area. They represent everything B'more despises about DC, and they're one of the many reasons (in our eyes) that we didn't get a replacement for the Colts for many many years. I don't understand why the NFL doesn't schedule an annual Redskins-Ravens game, and switch the location every year (one year we're home, next year they're home)? That's an actual local rivalry that is hyped up by the local media (the battle of the beltways) and they're not really tapping into it.

Dave T.

Ha ha ha ha, Right on. I agree with every point. Let me buy a round of drinks thanks to Dave.

In my eyes...it has always been a rivalry between the two cities, regardless of whether it was sports or not. Being an old Senators fan who didn't have a team for 33 years, I now relish a baseball rivalry between the two clubs/towns. It will take a little time to fester, but as both teams improve and compete for titles it will grow. GO NATS...GET HOT

Ron: We have them on MASN because we own 90% of their TV revenues, let them stay on there so we can collect their revenues.

As a DC area resident who grew up on the Orioles, I feel I have a unique perspective. I dont feel another team was warranted in DC, the fans here are mostly band-wagon riders who wont turn out for a non-contender or fans of the team where they grew up. If I go to my local grocery store I am just as likely to see an 'Evils' hat as I am a W hat. So from my point of view, it is intolerable to lose to them, I can't stomach losing to a team with such lousy fans who didn't deserve a team in the first place.

Man it's good to hear that so many others can't stand Riggins or Anita. The Riggins show is impossible to watch, period. Anita if she was naked maybe I would leave the other show I'm watching during a commerical and take a peek. With the sound off of course. Then hussle back to my show in progress.

Like one or two others, I grew up in the Orioles/Senators rivalry. I also grew up when the O's lived in the cellar, would go to NY and cream the Yankees, then go lose to the Senators, who were awful. So I understand the desire to set up a O's/Nats rivalry.

A memory comes back from a day when the Senators were playing at Memorial Stadium. Frank Howard got a single and Boog was playing first. The announcer made the comment that the infield was tilting as they stood next to each other.

Hot tea, damp and chilly out.

I hate the Nats. And I really hate their stupid "Nats Pack," who are a group of pseudo-cheerleaders lead around by a Ryan Seacreast wanna be and just shouts stuff into a mic. The fact that they had the audacity to come to my city and promote their stupid team enrages me. I guess that is what you have to resort to when you're drawing almost 5,400 less fans per game in a NEW stadium then you did during your first season in D.C.

What really got my goat was a game against the O's in D.C. that I went to last year. They did a trivia q&a with a Nats fan and the questions were "1. When was the last time the Orioles had a winning record? 2. When was the last time the Orioles were in the playoffs? and 3. When was the last time the Orioles won the World Series?" The third question prompted me to stand up and shout "YOU'VE NEVER HAD A WINNING SEASON, HOW DARE YOU ASK QUESTIONS LIKE THAT!!" My girlfriend luckily already knew I was crazy when it comes to my sports teams, so I don't think I embarrassed her too much. What would mike this series better would be if the Orioles put "Baltimore" back on the road jerseys when we play them in D.C.! I'll be looking into all of this more at www.iprobablyhateyourteam.blogspot.com

No rivalry yet.
Maybe if the O's and Nats start winning and become play-off teams, it might start-up some interest.
But now its just blah.

Hey John,

Which is it, megalopolis or megapolis? You must be a lawyer because Peey Angelos used the same term in describing the region.

Hey Barkeep, you really stirred the pot today. Better get the bouncer in here a few hours early. Dave T. has steam coming out of his ears. Drink up.

As a proud son of Baltimore County I never had feelings for Washington one way or another until the Colts left. After that I felt like the Redskins were being shoved down our throats as our "home team".

I think the rivalry is between cities not teams (blue collar vs white collar, wine and cheese vs beer and chips), although there isn't much blue collar left in B-More anymore.

I now live in Anne Arundel county and share the neighborhood with Deadskin fans, and my son (who is a proud Ravens and O's fan) is also a Wizards fan, so I guess there is room for compromise.

I don't think Nats/O's is a rivalry for the teams, and won't be until it matters.

Wow, talk about hitting a nerve. I've already earned my keep today and I haven't yet filed my Sunday column or driven to the ballpark. OK, here's part of this dichotomy I don't get.
Some of you said your hatred for the Redskins is rooted in the actions of old owners Marshall and Cooke (excellent info Ron. A Natty Boh on me). Now we all know Angelos did the same thing, but many of you, one would assume, supported the idea of not putting a team in DC. And others said you have no problem with DC fans being angered at Angelos.
Well, given that line of thinking, shouldn't Baltimore's hatred be directed at the old Skins owners and not the current Skins? Or shouldn't there be more vitriol from DC fans toward the Orioles and not just aimed at Angelos? Yet there clearly is a DC-area contingent that has room in its collective heart for the O's and Nats.
I do agree that the teams have to be better for a rivalry to get heated up. But it sounds like, for many of you, Baltimore's inferiority complex to DC won't go away. No matter what happens on any field. Which is fine. Remember, I'm a Baltimore native. Don't throw your beer glasses at me. I'm just trying to make sense of it all.
Because I tend to agree with HH here. I think it's kind of cool to have two MLB franchises within an easy drive. Of course, it makes my other job (the one with less stale beer) as national baseball writer a little easier since one is NL and the other AL. Keep going people, and I'll get some bouncer reinforcements.

It's not the same Barkeep. DC failed to support basesball on two prior occasions. Plain and simple, the teams left. Baltimore always supported football, although attendance did drop in the latter Irsay years. He left for a deal after he reneged on WD Schaeffer. Since we got football back, are support in attendance is unquestioned. Since they got baseball back and a new stadium......attendance stinks.

Yes, they blocked us in football and Petey did them in baseball until he worked up the MASN deal for Bud Selig but the Nationals will never draw big attendance numbers which means they are destined to be a small market team....essentially, the same thing the Expos were for decades.

It would be great if the on field passion betweeen the two teams could match the off field passion the respectice cities fans have.

It's raining, it's friday and I need a Schlitzopolis over here! One for Rich & Dave T. too!

I supported the idea of DC not getting a baseball team because they're not a baseball town. Period. It was a wrong move for MLB, and I still think so. There's a reason they couldn't hold onto two big league clubs in the past, so why do they keep getting another team? But you're right Dan, anger at the Redskins organization (and not their evil owners who tried their best to keep an NFL team out of Baltimore) is entirely misdirected.

I can understand why DC folk hate Angelos, and that feeling is shared by myself and the majority of Oriole fans.

What I don't understand is how someone can be a fan of both teams. That's mind-boggling to me, as I will always bleed orange in black. No matter what happens. I can't even imagine rooting for another team.

One trend in a rivalry is sellout crowds. Anyone think that will happen even with teams this close together. I'd rather see a home and home with philly. at least there's history. Toss me a boh and few fried eggs for breakfast. that should hit the spot

No to an O's-Nat's Rivalry... but WTF is this (Nats Inner Harbor Invasion Aftermath => http://blog.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/)?????

DC, not a baseball town, that's ridiculous. As far as losing two teams, yes that happened. The product on the field back then was terrible and they had one of the highest average for ticket prices in baseball for an inferior product. Bob Short was a terrible owner. Every time they had a decent player, other than Hondo, he'd trade them away. Give this a little time and this team will draw fans. I can remember Baltimore in the 60's drawing less than a million fans a year and they were world series winners.

I really don't care about an Orioles/Nats rivalry. Frankly, I think both teams need to promote BASEBALL instead of a rivalry. The Lerners and Angelos need for as many people as possible to love both teams.The best scenerio would be for someone to go to a Nats game on Thursday, have a good time, then say, "hey, the Orioles are home tomorrow night. I have to go to that." And vise -versa.

I really don't hate the Redskins any more. I've come to respect their tradition and recognize they have great fans. I have Ravens season tickets, but still try and go to a couple of Redskins games every year.

Some of the Washington people still annoy me, though. Think they are hot tuna and the world should revolve around them. Plus the wine and cheese set - or should it be whine and cheese - only goes to games because it's trendy. Not real fans. But hey, we have to recognize they are spending money to support whichever team.

Nats/O's is not a rivalry at least yet in my mind, cant stand the Nats though, Washington has no business having a baseball team, always like the Caps growing up, Wizards/Bullets really dont care about them, they have always been mediocre anyway, the real team in D.C. that I truly hate is the Redskins who play in Maryland which is ridiculous, get a stadium in your own town and get out of ours!!!!

There is no baseball rivalry. The football rivalry is alive and well. It may have it's roots in Marshall, and Jack K, but it go's much deeper. The Redskins tried to charge us to park the team bus forcing our 70+ year old owner to walk in from far away, and then their announcer trashed Raven fans over the PA. Talk about no class. Then there was the whole bogus griping by Redskins players talking about how MASN (or whoever the cable outlet was at the time) being overly partial to Ravens Coverage. Then there are the Redskins fans who are somehow delusional enough to think Jurgenson could somehow belong in the same sentence with Unitas......and does anyone not find Joe Theisman annoying???

Maybe if they flip floped the Nats and the Rays it could become a big rivalry but not now.

Having grown up 35 miles from both Washington and Baltimore, I still rooted as a kid for the O's, Colts, and Baltimore Bullets. Though I had no animosity toward the Redskins and Senators. I even went to a bat day and received a bat with Frank Howard's signature on it (wish I hadn't beaten that bat up as a kid now). When the Isray did what he did to Baltimore I resorted to becoming a full-time Redskin fan and when the Browns moved to Baltimore in the same fashion there was no way I could become one of their fans. So I guess I am a hybrid between Baltimore Orioles and Washington Redskin fan for life. And I guess I think the hating of the other city's sports team is really silly and imature. But anyhow I digress.

Peter Angelos is a jerk and the city of Baltimore deserves him. Your football team is named after an Edgar Allen Poe literary character. Enough said. Hail to the Redskins.

This is the fourth year of this tired conversation...we need to stop having it. As a Nats and Redskins fan (and lifelong Washingtonian) I'm amused by the antipathy toward DC by the denizens of Charm City. I love Baltimore because it has so much which DC lacks: good lacrosse, quality Italian food, genuine movies about it (Diner) and real crabcakes.

I don't think there ever will be a rivalry between the Nats and the O's. Sure, when the Nats sweep the O's again this year, I'll call my brother in Howard County and give him a hard time, but it will be in jest. I just can't get worked up about it. I like Baltimore and the folks who live there too much.

I reserve my disdain, my disgust, and my abject hatred for the Mets and the Phillies as I assume most O's fans do for their junior league rivals Yanks and Red Sox.

As I refuse to give Angelos any money (and I have the same rule with Snyder, mind you) I won't be enjoying any Boog's this weekend. But when you come down to Nats Park, don't forget a half-smoke from the Chili Bowl.

Rob -- your comment that "DC failed to support baseball on two occasions" is like me saying Baltimore is not a football town because the Colts left town amid poor attendance. In both cases the facts don't back up those assertions. The original Senators wanted to leave because Calvin Griffith was going to have to pay rent at the new city-owned ballpark (now RFK) instead of being the owner of the ballpark like he was at Griffith Stadium. MLB only allowed Griffith to leave for Minnesota so long as an expansion team was awarded, which it was. Of course, many here believe that had DC had teams like the Twins of the 1960s as opposed to the awful Senators teams of the 1960s the history of baseball would have been a lot different. Once you add Senators owner Bob Short to the mix, our version of Irsay who charged the highest prices in the league for a terrible product, the fans in Washington got the shaft, as Jim explained above.

The whole "wine-and-cheese" comments are also as stereotypical as someone saying all people in Baltimore do is to eat crabs, drink Natty Bo, and say "hon" all the time. The region is getting more diverse and many of us were "real fans" that went to Baltimore on a regular basis to see games (including Memorial Stadium) and would have remained Orioles fans had the owner not run the team in the ground and engaged in a scorched-earth effort to keep baseball from Washington.

Which of course begs the question -- if there are no "real fans" in DC, why did Mr. Angelos do everything he could to prevent the Expos from relocating, and why is the ballclub averaging 7,000 more fans a game than the Orioles without having the luxury of 18 appearances from the Yankees and Red Sox?

I don't want to rehash anything that has been said, but I don't think there is a rivalry. I think in order for there to be an O's/Nat's rivalry, the following is required:

Someone's feelings have to get hurt.

These teams are so bad that losing isn't something new. The Orioles could get swept by the Royals at any moment. The Nats could get swept by the Pirates. They're both bottom-tier teams. When winning returns to Washington, Baltimore, or both, then losing will start to sting. THAT's when emotions will run high. That's when out of town fans will get obnoxious.

I went to school in DC about the same time that the Nats arrived in town (I think I referred to them as the "Nexpos" for a while). My roomate was a die-hard 'Skins fan, and we had a great time making eachother miserable during football season.

That spilled over into baseball for me. Once I realized that I had a reason to tease and to ridicule during baseball season, too, I liked the very idea of a rivalry.

We're not there, but the teams can't both lose forever.

Jim,

Buy me another Schlitz and let's keep arguing as to whether DC is a baseball town or not. Comparing it to Baltimore of the 60's is wrong. You've got a brand new stadium and a 21st century MLB team and you can't put fannies in the seats. DC is seasonal town. Plus you have 4 major sports teams and the Terps to compete with....you guys are more watered down then Dan's mixed drinks.

I hope we cultivate a rivalry but it ain't gonna happen anytime soon unless we have a beanbrawl or something.

Most of the males in my family are just like your Dad.
I remember watching a Skins game when I was little, maybe 5, and I asked my dad, "Do you like the redskins because I like their helmet?" I remember my dad stopping mid-sip and almost spitting beer out his nose saying, "God NO". Then he explained why he didnt like the redskins or the colts.

There is no rivalry. My dad and I went to the first O's Nats game when Rodrigo Lopez shut down the Nats and won the game. It was just like any other Orioles game. No more no less emotion.

"J" is for this rivalry is a JOKE

"The fact that they had the audacity to come to my city and promote their stupid team enrages me."

Um, unlike the stupid team from Baltimore, who've never had the audacity to promote their team in DC. Or maintain a store. Or claim it as their "territory."

If Washington fans harbor resentment towards Peter Angelos, I understand exactly how they feel, but that's their business. It's no different from Cleveland fans being angry at Art Modell, as well. I understand exactly how they feel, but that's their business. It's not my place to tell anybody how they should be feeling towards any particular sporting owner.

That said, I had no problem with MLB putting a team in DC. I had no strong emotions one way or the other (though, I think a nod to history by naming the team "Washington Senators" would have been the classy thing to do, but I guess some other team owned that particular peace of intellectual property ... and again ... the professional leagues are pretty crappy dealing with their own history). That's their business. I wasn't planning on going down to DC to see them, so it just never really registers to me. If the Nats are at home against ... say .... the Brewers, it never occurs to me that I could go and see that game. If the Mets are in town, I'm tempted to go, but if it's the Astros, not so much.

The thing about the anger towards Marshall and Cooke (and I'm just 30, so I remember personally, the Cooke history) is that in trying to push the "Skins" on us, these men weren't just representing themselves or the team, but an image that they wanted us to accept so they could "have the territory to themselves." Baltimoreans thankfully rejected it. This was more bitter when the image that we identified with so strongly was taken away from us, only to have JKC try to replace it again with one that we rejected. Again, because he wanted the territory all to himself.

(Art Modell even thought about trying to keep the Cleveland identity and push it on us too and you must remember the reaction to that here and in Cleveland).

Marshall and Cooke themselves are gone, but what they represented remains. We as Baltimoreans got a new identity (since we couldn't get our old horse racing one back from the place with the huge car race every year) from Baltimore and not just some DC or Cleveland identity that either Cooke, Marshall, or even Modell would have tried to get us to link up with, just to sell us tickets and get us to tune in. I'm proud of Baltimoreans for making these choices, inferority complex or not!

(To me, it's extremely helpful to think of Baltimore's feelings towards professional football as being more along the lines of the same sort of passion exhibited by college football fans. BTW, I have to be honest and question how DC fans could have their hearts fully invested in a team that only came to exist a couple of years ago and hasn't done anything particularly memorable during that time, especially given DC's history with MLB [I didn't immediately "warm up" to the Ravens either]).

The fact that the Nats aren't even filling their BRAND NEW STADIUM does not lead me to invest any emotion in hating them, Ignore them, they'll go away.

No on the rivalry thing. "Billed as a rivalry"??? That is clearly marketing, because any fool can see there can't be a rivalry when neither team has accomplished anything. It's ridiculous, and I am sickened by the shallow marketing that the clubs put out. Interleague play is the bollocks. Dirty ones at that.

I am a Redskins fan. And Andrew, I am dating your sister....z

HH, only 7000 more fans per game in a brand new stadium? that's pretty pathetic.

To Joe,
Yeah our football team is named after a Poe character. And it is awesome. At least it's not a racial slur with a picture on the helmet to prove that.

Funny how history repeats itself, however reversed the roles maybe. Skins owners have attempted to deprive BMore of an NFL team, (and failed); St. Peter attempted to keep MLB out of DC, (and failed). Which is why there is no Skins/Ravens rivalry for Skins fans and there is no O's/Nats rivalry for O's fans. In both instances, the city was screwing the other doesn't care, or least cares less than the screwee.

That said, I am glad Camden is now devoid of those sub-humans, though I guess we get a few of them this weekend...

Why did Angelos block a team for so long if there were "no real fans?" Because he feared the Baltimore-DC megalopolis (yes, that's the correct term) couldn't support two baseball teams. Time will tell -- if in the future the O's and Nats are both fielding competitive teams that make the playoffs AND the stadiums are still underloaded, his fears will prove founded -- it certainly looks that way now in the short run.

He may be a lousy owner, but he played to his strength when he leveraged the MASN ownership and the $37M minimum selling price out of MLB.

There is no O's-Nats rivalry now, friendly or otherwise, but at least they're providing the environment to have one created.

Having lived in both DC and Baltimore, I don't really get the inferiority complex of the Charm Citiers.

DC's a far superior city by any measure (except crabs), and the Nats and O's both suck.

I have lived in both DC and Baltimore. I am from Baltimore, and i must say i absoulutley hate Washington D.C it is a very overrated city and the fans there are complete idiots I don't really think about them they are irrelevent thats how pathetic they are baltimore is more a unified city. and with the early O's daysto the late 80's and the orioles magic is coming back and also with the colts baltimore sports fans are better sports fans. DC is jus steal everybody elses ideas.

Let's meet in Gaithersburg or Laurel and just duke it out until everyone goes home with sore faces.
I'm a proud Redskin fan and a DC Baseball fan.
I don't whine or cheese and my dad can definitely beat up your dad.
So there.