Right or wrong, I think the idea is that the true penalty for the driver occurs in civil court.

Killing someone by simple negligence shouldn't be a crime. In such cases, a traffic citation is appropriate. Only in cases of gross negligence should manslaughter charges be brought.

Mike,

Do you know the bill number?
COMMENT: House bill 363.

Some Facts:

* This bill does NOT address simple negligence but the level between simple and gross negligence.

* This bill makes it a misdemeanor to cause a death...

* Typically in Maryland courts manslaughter by GROSS negligence needs the driver to be drunk and to be doing one or two more moving violations.

What sort of situations will or will not be covered are outlined here: http://www.waba.org/blog/2011/04/can-we-answer-senator-froshs-questions-in-time/

I've been bicycling the roads of Northern Baltimore County for thirty years, Butler Road twice a week. I've been driving a motor vehicle for 50 years. I don't think criminalizing such an accident is the answer. I wish I knew what the answer is. I can empathize completely with Tami, and if there is wanton negligence, lock 'em up, but do you make a criminal of someone whose inattention had the gross misfortune of killing or injuring a bicyclist instead of doing a few hundred dollars worth of damage in a ditch?

My 16 YO son, Ben Wortman, was killed on August 28, 2009 while riding his bike on the shoulder of 108 by a driver that was drunk and high on Herion. He was so high and drunk he didn't realize he had hit anything until the bumper of his car fell off. He was so out of it that my son's friend had to dial 911. However, because the driver did not go to the hospital with injuries, no blood was ever drawn and he was not even charged with DUI. He spent less than 12 hours in jail that first night.

Approximately a year after the accident, he plead guilty to possession of Herion and got six months in jail for that. He actually served four months and was released.

It is appaling that the only way he actually was going to do jail time was for possession of Herion - not killing my son.

I don't know the specifics of this bill, but I do know that something needs to change.

Chairman Frosh has misgivings about nearly every tightening of the criminal code be it for sexual offenders, vehicular manslaughter or any range of issues.

This would not bring vehicular manslaughter down to misdemeanor. What it does is create a new crime for the level below vehicular manslaughter instead of the current fine and off-the-hook. There are numerous cases of people that have callous disregard for fellow drivers/boaters on the roadways and waterways that result in death. The trend does not seem to be decreasing.

Sen. Frosh would be keen to remember the number of bicyclists in the Bethesda area who use their bicycles as a primary means of transportation to work and leisure. I know full well he's famaliar with the Capital Crescent Trail too. If Sen. Frosh fails to give this bill a vote then the bicyclists should ride up to his home in Somerset and demand answers.

At what point are the bicyclist going to take responsibility for their own actions. If you are going to ride your bike on the road with a 3 Ton car or truck then follow the rules of the road; they apply to everyone not just thoughs of us who pay taxes, tags and insurance. You want everyone to share the road but not the rules! Your nothing but a bunch of BULLEYS on BIKES. We have to yield when we walk in the park on trails, on sidewalks, at the beach on the road. This morning I had a Lance want-to-be ride right out in front of me on South Rolling Road and yes I had to cross the double yellow line to keep from smashing him and his bike so I beeped my horn and he was so kind to give me and my son whom I was taking to school the finger. Had I not reacted so quick and hit him and killed him "no fault of mine" I would go to jail... Because again most Not all bike riders have no regard for the people around them. Just this weekend a bike rider ran a red light and put his hand up to stop my husbands car (with his super powers)had we hit and killed him (Jail Time) are you kidding me! Smash this Bill...

It's interesting that this article ran today. Just last night I was driving home at about 10:00pm and as I was approaching a green light three children came flying across the road at the intersection against the light. Thankfully, I saw them however the car next to me didn't and narrowly missed hitting them. By the way, the posted speed limit on the road was 50mph. If the man in the car next to me would have hit any of the children, I certainly would not have blamed him. It was dark, hard to see and they didn't appear to have any reflectors or lights not to mention they were going against a red light. If this new bill were to pass, would this man have had to face criminal or any charges whatsoever? I truly don't believe that he was in the wrong. I was lucky to have seen the kids but what if I hadn't? I could have ended up killing them for their stupidity. It makes me angry to think about it.

Where the heck are you from Bill P?
Killing should always be a crime.
killing someone in anything other than self defense of the most life threatening situations should ALWAYS be a crime.
Some killings are more heinous than others, and the consequences should be different for different scenario's, but killing someone should ALWAYS be a crime.

I'm sorry buts thats about the most misanthropic position anyone can take.

@Anonymous | April 6, 2011 9:52 AM,

Please Google for "hasty generalization" and realize that you're making a very common logical fallacy. Every day, I see drivers who run red lights and fail to stop at stop signs. Does that mean that no drivers follow the rules? No, obviously not.

Learning to differentiate your anecdotal experiences from statistical reality is part of becoming intellectually mature.

Ahh, Anonymous 9:52am, the old Taxes, tags, insurance argument. Well I ride a bicycle and I also pay taxes, tags, and insurance as do most who ride a bicycle. While I know there are some cyclists that do not obey traffic laws, there are just as many motorists who don't obey traffic laws. Most, not all, motorists have no regard for those around them. Not sure the new law would do much to make the roads safer, which is what the ultimate goal should be. I can't imagine any punishment would be more severe than the mental anguish that the person would have to live with for the rest of their lives.

You are quite the storyteller, Anonymous. Please continue to give us more of your anecdotal evidence of the terrible cyclist menace out on MD roads.

To think a driver of an automobile can kill someone for a mere 500 dollars and 3 points on a license is perverse. I have lost track how often I have legally walked a crosswalk only to dodge a car because the driver neglected to wait until the crosswalk was clear. Alternatively while riding my bike, watch car drivers accelerate, pass me on the left then cut in front me so they can beat be to the intersection by a few sconds, and make a right turn in front of me. To think that my life is only worth 500 dollars is obscene. As a driver of a car, you have been given a privilege to drive and should be held responsible for your actions. I pay my taxes like anybody else and should not feel like a second-class citizen should I decide to walk across a road or ride my bike on a county road.

The issue here is "What amount of Societal Suffering is appropriate?" More specifically, the family of the deceased has suffered. Is anyone suggesting that the negligent party doesn't suffer the pain of knowing they were responsible for the death of another and the only way to ensure the *proper* amount of suffering is by jail? Really? How much total suffering is enough to atone for a crime? I don't know but this may not be the answer.

I think that bicycles should be riden on the nice expensive bike trails that the tax payers of MD paid for. Highways & Roads were built for vechicles not bicycles. If bicyclists ride the roads they shouldn't complain @ accidents.

Here’s why the law should change: right now a malicious person could kill a biker, claim that they didn’t see him, and then get off with a traffic ticket.

Nascarmom - bikes have every right to be on the road as cars do. They do NOT have the right to ride on sideWALKS. In fact, it is against the law. They must ride on bike trails and/or roads and follow laws applicable to cars (stop signs, traffic lights, one way streets, etc.) If this bill passes, I hope we can also make it a charge of assault with a deadly weapon for cyclists who run into pedestrians on sidewalks!

1. Roads are simply free linear passages across private property and EVERY adult has the RIGHT to use and share the Right of Way space by whatever legal means they choose.
2. The larger the conveyance in motion on a public Right of Way space the more they must be burdened with responsibility to control such vehicle under all circumstances. Enough intimidation and bullying by the operators controlling larger vehicles. This happens to smaller and slower cars, motorcycles, bicycles, and pedestrians (even on multi-use recreation paths).
3.It is the speed differentiation that is the main issue.

To the Anonymous moron who wrote this post:

"At what point are the bicyclist going to take responsibility for their own actions. If you are going to ride your bike on the road with a 3 Ton car or truck then follow the rules of the road; they apply to everyone not just thoughs of us who pay taxes, tags and insurance. You want everyone to share the road but not the rules! Your nothing but a bunch of BULLEYS on BIKES. We have to yield when we walk in the park on trails, on sidewalks, at the beach on the road. This morning I had a Lance want-to-be ride right out in front of me on South Rolling Road and yes I had to cross the double yellow line to keep from smashing him and his bike so I beeped my horn and he was so kind to give me and my son whom I was taking to school the finger. Had I not reacted so quick and hit him and killed him "no fault of mine" I would go to jail... Because again most Not all bike riders have no regard for the people around them. Just this weekend a bike rider ran a red light and put his hand up to stop my husbands car (with his super powers)had we hit and killed him (Jail Time) are you kidding me! Smash this Bill..."

You started well, then went quickly into generalizing - which is why I call you a moron. Not all riders violate the road rules. Most of us follow the rules because we know the risks to ourselves, and to the drivers. We want to live! Because a few riders violate the rules in your presence, the rest of us deserve no protection? Should all driving laws be repealed because of the idiots that read, do their make-up, text...among all the other stupid things that they do while driving? Does that mean we should not be protected from that behavior? What about pedestrians that walk across busy streets when the traffic is moving? Should their irresponsibility allow us to negate the laws protecting all pedestrians?

I appreciate that you and your family make it a point to avoid killing cyclists, but your logic is ridiculous.

Obviously if the bicyclist is not following the rules of the road, they are at fault. What the issue is is when the bicyclist is behaving as they should and are struck by a motorist, and killed. As an example, last week I was hit by a 95 year old woman while on my bicycle, in a bike lane, following the rules of the road. The woman attempted to leave the scene (possibly not realizing she had hit me) she was not cited, even though she made an illegal turn. I wonder how this would have been handled had I of been in a car?

Hey nascarmom,let me guess,you are a typical suburban soccer mom who drives a minivan or suv,or a hick with a pickup truck,who never rides a bike or gets much exercise.Probably overweight,too.Let me educate you.Roads started to be paved for bikes over 100 years ago.Before cars became common.Most people couldn't afford them,you either had a horse a buggy,or a bike.So you lazy,car addicted aholes are using OUR roads.

nascarmom,

Are you trolling (based on your name) or just massively ignorant? As a bicyclist and driver, I help pay for the roads you drive on. Therefore, if someone breaks the law and destroys your car/life, you have no right to complain. Did I get that right?

@ Nascarmom & Anonymous,

I see more people in cars and in fact city busses running red lights than on bicycles. The fact is most bike commuters are scared of the consequences of even riding a little too close to traffic. People who are texting and driving or ignoring the designated bike lane altogether have nearly hit me dozens of times.

A month ago I was riding my bike home from work when a woman opened her car door without looking and I was unable to avoid it. I need a surgical repair to my shoulder, and my bike is totaled. She wasn't issued a fine or even a verbal reprimand. I was door'd because I was following the law to the letter. When someone doors a bicyclist in Chicago, there is a minimum fine of 500 dollars. I'd like to see much stricter bicycle laws here in Baltimore.

It's amazing to me that people would be so disrespectful and ignorant to people who are on bikes as to say things such as the above. A lot of us are doing this for reasons such as a little workout, a faster commute across a city, or to save money on gas and parking. Cut us some slack.

And @ Joe Smith, Thank you for pointing that out to people who don't know that it is in fact illegal to ride a bike on the sidewalk. I've nearly hit a bicyclist who was zipping through the cross walk from a sidewalk when I was turning right, because I couldn't see him behind parked cars.

ALL MOTORISTS & BICYCLISTS should know the laws and obey them as such.

There is a law for drivers that you can't go more than 15 MPH under the speed limit. This should apply to bikers too (maybe it does, I don't know). But, the point is that someone riding a bike at 10 MPH (?) in a 55 MPH zone is unacceptable and inherently dangerous. But, bottom line, they can create all the laws they want but it won't make it safe to ride bikes on roads with fast moving cars. Biker (should) know this and if they want to risk their lives, more power to them!

It's not always the driver's fault. Bikers need to be aware that roads/highways were build for AUTOMOBILES, not bicycles. Although I agree with road-sharing, bikers need to be just as careful as car drivers. AND when there is a sign on a road/highway that clearly states "NO PEDESTRIANS OR BICYCLES", there's a good enough reason for that sign to be there.

Richard Beck - Great name fits you well...
You really hit your point home by calling people Morons...Class Act you are!
Take some life lessons from Mr. Barry Childress who posted on 4/5 you may learn something. And by the way I said most Not all bike riders. You should take the opportunity to educate people instead of insulting much better fight for the cause. Proves just how aggressive SOME bike riders are. But you sound much to arrogant to do that; you may want to stay home Wednesday so not to sound off like hostal crazed maniac who can not control their angry. Ever consider joining an Anger Managment Class?

ben and justlooking1,

What are you on about? This accident happened on University Parkway in Baltimore, where the speed limit is 30mph. Not only was the cyclist NOT on a prohibited road, but he was in a marked bicycle lane.

Seriously, do you people even bother to learn the basic facts of the story before commenting? Or do you just sit down at your keyboard and let your own prejudices flow forth?

@ Jeff - All I'm saying is that road safety belongs to EVERYONE. In this case, yes the driver MAY be @ fault, but it also leads me to wonder how much fault and what was the bicyclist thinking? Daydreaming? Listening to their IPOD at a high volume level? Was the bicyclist riding defensively? Aggressively? Was the car driver talking on a cell phone? Distracted driving? None of this article explains any of this, except the family is suing an 82 year old woman who probably has nothing, will leave nothing to no one when she dies and the family will never see a penny of whatever she MAY have. It's going to be declared a frivolous case. You can't always hold the car driver responsible in every case. It's an unfortunate thing but holding drivers responsible every time simply is not the answer. Public education, awareness and courtesy is. By the way, I read and re-red the article. Passing laws won't help. Cyclists DON'T own the road and they MUST follow traffic flow/laws, same as drivers.

This law will protect the bike riders.. However when will they pass and enforce laws that require bike riders to follow the basic rules of the road. Not stopping at stop signs, traffic lights. Pedestrain crossing, ridding between auto's in traffic, etc.
I ride a bike and I obey the rules.. It makes me so mad when I see the riders who think they can do no wrong.. What happend to being curtious to others???

I keep seeing the argument (in all CAPS) no less, that "ROADS WERE DESIGNED FOR AUTOMOBILES."

Well, actually, in our city they were designed for horses, streetcars, cyclists, pedestrians, buses, and eventually, yes, the personal automobile.

Streets are a public right of way for every person in the city. They are (caps for emphasis since you seem to like that) NOT DESIGNED FOR AUTOMOBILES.

One question for all the hateful jackasses (most of whom are so self-righteous but too goddam afraid to sign their names to their posts) - when did being inconvenienced become justification for killing or maiming a human being? As I've said before many times - I can only hope that your and your loved ones die a slow painful death because of the carelessness of another person who is just as selfish as you!

killing people though criminally negligent behavior should always be prosecuted as such. More people die as a result of criminally negligent driving than from any other reason including any type of crime or disease.