Clinton camp: DNC lawyers 'incorrect'

"It is a bedrock principle of our Party that every vote must be counted, and thereby every elected delegate should be seated."

If this is a "bedrock principle" why did Hillary's Campaign agree that they should not be recognized when the DNC originally ruled on this prior to the primaries?

I'm beginning to think words like "principle" are lost on Ms. Clinton.

It seems that Obama and his supporters are lacking in principles.

It is a simple matter for Obama to agree to the fundamental bedrock American, democratic principle to count every vote and be done with the controversy.

Obama's wanting to disenfrachise FL and MI voters who want their votes to count is no "change to believe." That is more the modus operandi of Obama as a ruthless, slick, sly, devious Chicago politician.

There are two reasons why all the delegates must be seated:
1. It will end the negative image of disenfranchisement and authoritarianism the Democratic Party has built during this campaign; this will be healthy for the party and the country going forward in the November election.
2. The Charter of the Democratic Party of the United States (DPUS) specifically mandates that the Democratic members of the US Senate and House and DNC "shall" serve as unpledged delegates. The Charter takes precedent over other adopted rules and regulations. Further, the Charter specifically states that that "Each official body of the Democratic Party created under the authority of this Charter shall adopt and conduct its affairs in accordance with written rules, which rules shall be consistent with this Charter..." NOT seating delegates specified in the Charter is not consistent with the Charter.

I have lots of relatives in FL and quite a few did NOT go vote since they KNEW it didn't count. By conting them at all, Clinton is DISENFRANCHISING all those that did not vote KNOWING it wouldn't count......but this is no different then her DISENFRANCHISING 9 caucus states in her popular vote count or all those in MI in her popular vote that would of voted for Sen Obama...Her FAKE, popular vote count says NOONE in MI voted for Sen Obama LOL OK........And she already disenfranchised all those Harlem voters....Remember the ones where not a single vote was cast for Sen Obama? in Harlem???? LOL....enough of this bogus crap. Sen Clinton is OVER and thank goodness....As a registered Independent I will be soooooooooo glad to say BYE BYE Clintons.....AND Sen Clinton you may want to start worrying about your Senate seat, I will be personally helping ANYONE that plans to run aginst YOU

Clinton is not only right--she's the only dem who can win for us in the Fall.

i think it is a crying shame that the first woman to have a chance at the presidency had to be hillary clinton/bill clinton. together they represent the failed policies of the past. hillary fails to understand that her many years of Washington experience wasn't a positive experience for many others and in present circumstances is a major liability. at least it's no longer possible to think we'll never have a woman president and for that i salute hillary

Every vote should be counted! The DNC gave permission to some states to violate the rules and punished others for doing so. DNC is very selective in their chooses. Caucus are not democratic , they only allow a few to be able to vote. This why Obama wins the caucuses. There are no caucuses in the general election. Take away Obama's cuacus win , and how many states has he really won, where every one had a chance to vote?

REVOTE REVOTE REVOTE REVOTE REVOTE REVOTE REVOTE REVOTE REVOTE REVOTE REVOTE REVOTE REVOTE REVOTE REVOTE REVOTE REVOTE REVOTE REVOTE REVOTE REVOTE REVOTE REVOTE REVOTE

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Posted by: crat3 | May 30, 2008 2:22 PM

You just hold on their one second, crat3. Obama has played by the rules. He signed a pledge not to participate in the primaries. He did not campaign in either state. He wasn't even on the ballot in Michigan. Hillary on the other hand, was on the ballot in both places, and she held a "fundraiser" the day before the Florida primary.

What you are saying is that it is perfectly fair to award Michigan and Florida delegates to Clinton in proportion to those she won even though Barack Obama had no opportunity to campaign and compete for those votes because he followed the rules. Where is the fairness in that? If campaigning and showing up on the ballot were irrelevant to an outcome, then why do all candidates do these things? How can you be so certain, given all his other wins, that Obama wouldn't have fared well in either state had he participated?

To simply award Clinton the votes from either state because of a reversal of the rules would be to sandbag, even punish, Obama for following the rules. I think any fair minded person in Obama's shoes would be justified in being upset at Clinton and the DNC rules committee if they reversed themselves. I think the DNC and the Democratic Party will have hell to pay if they do.

Here comes another "Now JUST, What IS the meaning of IS."
The Clinton's will stop at nothing! Hillary did not care if they were counted at all until the numbers started going against her. At the worst case scenario they could hold another election, but I believe it is too late for that.

The scorched earth campaign continues. Hillary is setting back women more than she is helping. She is the worst kind of sore loser. Divisive, egomaniacal, and power hungry. Willing to use any device to continue the wretched, horror show, that is the Clinton presidential bid.

if clinton is not the nom. we will never vote for obama.we will not be united on this EVER.it has to do with our furture.this is not the time for a barack obama.there is nothing the d.n.c. or obama can say or do about this. it will be a long cold winter for the dems.if the d.n.c. goes for obama now,we will vote him out in nov.and there is nothing anyone can do.we will not vote OBAMA.

I can't wait for this circus to end so Obama can focus on the election. Bottom Line is this people, RULES ARE RULES, HRC knew the rules from day one and she didnt remove her name from the ballot like the other candidates, knowing there would be a large segment of the population would still go out and vote in a primary that SHE knew wouldnt count. She never thought she would actually need Florida and Michigan because she was ANNOITED a long time ago as the Democratic savior. Well she got a rude awakening and now she needs those votes and wants to change the RULES to serve her own end. Obama doesn't owe her anything, he played by the rules and is winning the election. Sorry maybe when Obama's 8 years are up, she can put together a better campaign team and try again like John McCain. I don't think she will be that old.

A tad shameless that as 13 of Hillary's supporters wrote the rules that she so readily endorsed, Hillary now demands the rules be changed to suit her needs. Even more shameless is her continued attempts to divide and poison her party to suit her needs. Hillary just wants an excuse to sue and sue some more so she can drag the Democrats into the ground.

John W.: Fundraising was allowed in the Four State Pledge. The only thing that was banned was campaigning. Obama still managed to run national ads which aired in FL right before the primary which was bending the rules a bit. Read the pledge for yourself (linked below) - it doesn't EVER say the delegates won't be seated.

As far as MI, Obama knew he wouldn't win there so he took his name off the ballot in hopes it wouldn't count.

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/3/9/201240/0802

I am so disgusted with HRC and her doof of a husband. I can't wait for this whole mess to be over with. HRC has NO business running for POTUS let alone being a Senator for a State that she has NEVER lived in. With the behavior she has been exhibiting lately, she could be detrimental to the Office. (both Senate and Prez.) I hope the good people in NY vote her out and they go away! Can't run a campaign, well, then you certainly can't run the country...

Ickes has recently claimed that Obama should receive none of the "uncontested" votes in Michigan. At some point claims can be so irrational that to dignify them with a rational response is counterproductive. But we keep trying.

"Why I Can't Stop Criticizing Hillary, yet (although I wish I could)"
http://msa4.wordpress.com/

Guys, your comments are proof that we need a woman in the White House. You sound like you're playing slot machines at Las Vegas. What a headache. We're not playing games here. We're talking about people's votes. Why aren't you bashing the stupid idiots who made the candidates sign pledge cards in order to run for president. What do you call that? The difference between Hillary and the other candidates, is that she understands that you can't deny people a vote. She never took her name off the ballot in either Florida or Michigan. Barack Obama, on the other hand, was interested in playing Bridge. That's why he pulled his name off the ballot in Michigan, and tried to do the same thing in Florida without success. Let's get it clear, Hillary is the person on the right side on this issue.

As far as MI, Obama knew he wouldn't win there so he took his name off the ballot in hopes it wouldn't count.

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/3/9/201240/0802

Posted by: writerchick | May 30, 2008 3:39 PM

Writerchick are your trying to tell me Obama is not poular in DETROIT??? Give me a break.

Where's the argument in favor of all those who DIDN'T VOTE because they were told their vote wouldn't count anyway, that the Florida and Michigan elections were merely a 'beauty contest'? So what about those? And what about the other candidates who were told this was only a beauty contest and therefore not to campaign there, and they didn't? This is so bad, trying to re-write the rules at the end to fit the loser! STICK BY THE RULES. Florida and Michigan would be stripped of their delegates because they disobeyed the rules, and it would just be a beauty contest, that's all folks.

Here we go, Obama camp - its slipping from your hands.
Hillary will be the nominee. Watch and learn.

I would love to see a woman run the country. I believe Hillary is not the one. What about a woman who runs for president on her own merrits? Hillary constintly referred to Bills acheivements to propel her further. Give me a realwoman and I will vote for her.

From a family who needs the word "IS" explained. Whatever!

Posted on September 2nd, 2007 by Jason Easley in 2008 Election Coverage, All News, Government News, US Government News, US News, US PoliticsRead 878 times.Over the weekend six of the eight candidates for the 2008 Democratic nomination reaffirmed their support for the DNC approved four state early voting schedule. Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, John Edwards, Bill Richardson, Joe Biden, and Chris Dodd have all promised to skip states that hold primaries or caucuses early than February 5, 2008 without the approval of the Democratic National Committee (DNC).

Clinton campaign manager Patti Solis Doyle said. “And we believe the DNC’s rules and its calendar provide the necessary structure to respect and honor that role.” If the candidates stick to their promise, and stay out of Florida and Michigan, then their attempts to grab the national spotlight will be meaningless. Something had to be done because state leapfrogging had gotten way out of control. It was starting to look like the Iowa caucuses were going to be held in December.
This from sept.6th07

No, it's "There YOU go, Hillary Camp..."
The RULES apply to EVERYONE, no matter HOW hard the "Hill-raiser" idiots try to protest to the contrary.

It's called "RESPONSIBILITY and ACCOUNTABILITY." You BREAK THE RULES, you PAY THE PENALTY.

Michigan and Florida should be thrilled they get ANY delegates. All this caterwauling and "demands" that the two rogue states should be seated is like when you tell your kid not to do something, they do it anyway, and instead of punishing them, the parent STUIPIDLY says, "Oh, that's okay, just don't do it again." NO! There HAS to be responsibility and accountability for poor choices, just as there are rewards for good choices. These two states DELIBERATELY went against the WELL ESTABLISHED RULES, and now, they have to pay the penalty.

Maybe NEXT TIME, when the DNC says "Don't do that," the states will listen better...

Watch and learn, indeed...Hopefully, all the IDIOTS who think they can do as they please, rules, laws or no, will learn that the world simply does not turn that way, no matter how "entitled" a nominee feels.

maya azaia, Hillary and her henchman, Harold Ickes, loudly and publicly supported the DNC decision to strip FL and MI of their delegates. Keeping her name on the ballot in MI and haveing a "fundraiser" in FL the day before the primary are typical of her slippery behavior. If she is on the right side of the issue was she on the wrong side before, or is she just shifting to accomodate her needs. She did not care about these voters until she was behind Obama.
She does not have the character to be president.

BZ: you WISH!!!

Waa! Waa! Waa! If I don't get my way on everything, I'm going to destroy the Democratic Party! How dare they deny me my absolute right to be the presidential candidate! I deserve it! I'm Hillary Clinton and I approve whatever slimy obstructionist tactics are necessary for me to get my way!

Isn't the Bush Administration being accused of being selective when it comes to which rules they would like and like not to follow? The bedrock of civil society is the rule of law and accompanying consequences for breaking those laws. Accountability seems to be lacking in this current administration and Ms. Clinton seems to be following in those footsteps by ignoring the fact these two states broke the rules. Will she also be selective in which rules she will self-servingly follow if she in the President?

I'm from Canada and looking to your election with more fareness and Hillary Clinton?? she is just shameful, a crying baby who wants to change the rules whenever suit her.
disgusting

When Clinton is spending so much time and money with her lawyers fighting the Democratic Party, how can she be our nominee? I can see that she wants a big Greek Tragedy Convention Bloodbath and I'm not sure that's a bad thing ... oughta make some great TV ... worldwide ... but maybe it's time she form her own party and take her supporters forward without the DNC.

*****

Posted by: writerchick | May 30, 2008 3:39 PM

Nice try, but fundraising is a form of campaigning. Candidates do not simply show up and quietly eat a $1k plate of food at fundraisers.

The ads Obama ran were cable ads and couldn't be censored or culled from distribution in Florida short of stopping the same ads in a number of other states.

In any event, you still miss the larger picture that Obama was not entitled to fully participate and that it is fundamentally unfair to award the votes. In addition to his inability to fully compete for the votes, there is also the problem that voters stayed at home in the belief that their vote wouldn't count. Thus, the DNC would be guessing if they awarded or apportioned delegates on the basis of the vote results.

I'm a Floridian and I can say with certainty that Florida votes should NEVER be counted in ANY election. I always vote Libertarian just to be sure my vote doesn't count.

Hillary is a LIAR! She signed the pledge, just like Obama, that the Michigan and Florida delgations would not be seated if they broke the rules. They broke the rules, will not be seated, and now she wants to disregard HER OWN signature. Pitiful, but typical.
Rules apply to everyone but her. She has set women back 30 years with her crap.
Not to mention her runnning from snipers in Bosnia. I could go on and on, but you get the point. What a horrible, divisive, manipulative, shrill, fake, phony, lying woman. Her
sense of entitlement is ridiculous and pathetic. She can't win and wants to take the entire Democratic down with her. If she has any shred of dignity left she should concede defeat and graciously
support the rightful nominee, Mr. Obama.

"As far as MI, Obama knew he wouldn't win there so he took his name off the ballot in hopes it wouldn't count."

*****
Posted by: writerchick | May 30, 2008 3:39 PM

P.S.

Not only is it incredible to believe that Obama withdrew in the belief that he wouldn't win - for the reasons given by Logic Prisoner, above - you also have an impossible time explaining why he would "hope" it wouldn't count, when he knewit wouldn't count; and how he could have "lost" it when Michigan did not purport to hold a "winner-take-all" primary. The latter fact virtually guarantees that his participation would have netted a substantial number of delegates even if the majority voted for Clinton.

Dear Lyn Utrecht

If we use Rule 20(C)(7) you will disenfranchise millions of voters, the total 2006 Florida population is 18,089,888 and Michigan2006 total population is 10,095,643 this option
lacks basic principles of fairness

By Rule 20(C)(1) only half of the delegate from Florida will be seated

My proposal is the next one.
under Rules 19(D)(1), Rule 19(E), Rule 20(C)(5) The RBC has the Authority to has broad authority to fashion any appropriate remedy too ADD Delegates from Florida and Michigan with full votes to the candidate who has more delegates after Puerto Rico.
Democratic party will NOT prohibit Florida and Michigan from sending delegates to the Democratic National Convention with Full Votes Regulation 3.2(C)(ii). Both Florida and Michigan will be fully represented in the nomination process. But equal or more delegates from volunteers draw from a pool of Florida 18,089,888 and Michigan 10,095,643 to be sent to the convention from the winner after Puerto rico (19(D)(1), Rule 19(E), Rule 20(C)(5))

I think this amendment made by an American that is not part of any political cabinet is as valid as yours. This letter will unify people, as people is the most important, since we pay taxes. Nobody will be disenfranchised.

We thank the RBC for its time and attention to these challenges and for consideration of the views expressed in this letter.

Alma Ludivina

Get over it. Hillary knew the rules and now she wants to re-write them. I wonder if the shoe was on the other foot...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwWdciKp0G0&feature=related

I guess just like 2000 election in Florida, the SUPREME COURT will have to decide the ISSUE.

I understand they are hiring Roger Stone to advise on "closing down the meeting".

Just in case the need an extra "BRAIN" I understand they have Karl Rove locked up in a hotel room with Dick Morris.

Ann "Hissy Fits" Coulter and her Bimbos of the Right are standing by in reserve.

AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST RUSH IS DOING A LIVE BROADCAST FROM THE MEETING ROOM.

VJ Machiavelli
www.vjmachiavelli.blogspot.com
WWW.ANNHISSYFITSCOULTER.COM
WWW.BIMBOSOFTHERIGHT.COM

CALL FOR DNC TO REMOVE RACIST RULES AND BY LAW COMMITTEE MEMBER:
DONNA BRAZILE

To: DNC Chairman, Dr. Howard Dean
From: Informed Democrats
Re: Donna Brazile’s Overt Racism
Date: Until Michigan and Florida are Seated

Dr. Dean,

As a lifelong Democrat, I was horrified to hear DNC member Donna Brazile representing, speaking and acting as the card carrying, overt racist of the Rules and By-Laws Committee.

In America, where racism has been a deep and tarnished thread in the fabric of our nation’s diverse and quilted history; it would appear to all thinking and informed Democrats that you, Dr. Dean would have placed diverse, patriotic and openly aware individuals on the committee to represent our fine and beloved party.

However, as I viewed Ms. Brazile’s overtly, Ebonically displayed tirades; I realized you must have been hoodwinked to have placed such an overt racist, the likes of Donna Brazile on the Rules and By-Laws Committee.

Ms. Brazile’s buffoonish, gyrating, and overt Ebonic antics as she communicated with the African American press corps, during the break, shows there is no room for this type of person on the Rules and By-Laws Committee.

Now before you scream RACISM, I am an intelligent, educated, Christian, articulate, true African American female-who is more AMERICAN than anything else. My nationality supersedes my ethnicity.

Again, my nationality supersedes my ethnicity. I am an AMERICAN.

Ms. Brazile’s comments, behaviors and actions were more in the tradition of the post Civil War, Reconstructionist Republican Party.

Throughout the history of the United States of America, we have been fortunate to have had many major political parties: Republican, Federalist, Democratic Republican, Whig, Free Soil Party, Know Nothings, Populist, Progressive, Bull Moose, Reform and of course, our beloved Democratic Party.

We are Americans; therefore, we are bright, intelligent, literate, passionate, honest, and hard-working and sometimes Bible thumping and Second Amendment gun-totters.

Therefore, for the love of our Democratic Party, please cease and desist your Rules and By-Laws Committee member-Donna Brazile’s deplorable actions against Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton and seat Michigan and Florida as the voices of the voters intended, and award her the delegates she EARNED fair and square.

Why embarrass the Democratic Party any further by awarding the nomination to the media created Manchurian Candidate Obama and wait for the Republicans and the 529 to unload to the world Obama’s unelectable dirty laundry: Antoin Rezko, Larry Sinclair, Father Michael Plerger, William Ayers, Reverend Jeremiah Wright, Iraqi born Aiham Alsammarae, the former electricity minister convicted of corruption in Iraq and his deal with Obama and Rezko to build nuclear power plants in Iraq-a nation we are currently at war?

Why would our party want an Illinois Combine, mob-backed, mafia owned, as of today, unindicted criminal as Barack Obama as our parties nominee?

Senator Obama is arrogant, presumptive and condescending to say, "I will allow her half of the delegates". Who does he think he is? He is not the Great Barack O’Mighty the media has created; he is only a CANDIDATE for the presidency of the United States of America. He is not President, or even God-forbid the Democratic nominee.

Donna Brazile has embarrassed America today.

Her lack pf professionalism, inarticulate Ebonics and gyrations were inappropriate and uncalled for in the setting.

Since Ms. Brazile’s comments, behaviors and actions were more in the tradition of the post Civil War, Reconstructionist Republican Party, can she pleased be removed from our fine and illustrious Democratic Parties Rules and By-Laws Committee?

Dr. Dean, there is no room for her overt marginalism for one race, one candidate at the disenfranchisement of all other affinity groups within the Democratic Party.

Ms. Brazile’s actions show us she is the Scott McClellan of the Democratic Party. As Senator Dole said yesterday regarding Scott McClellan’s betrayal of the Bush Administration, I am in agreement today regarding Ms. Brazile’s betrayal of the Clinton’s.

Ms. Brazile would have received more respect if she’d left her cushy job during the Clinton administration; instead today she is only an INGRATE.

Ms. Brazile’s from the Democratic Party Rules and By-Laws Committee must come immediately.

Democratically Yours,

Informed Democrat