If only decorated WW II ETO combat bomber pilot McGovern had won in 1972.

At a minimum there'd be a lot less dead people for no good reason.

Kind of like... well you know...

It is a very immature way of looking at this contest. We should always take into account the entirety of the candidate and resist the urge to reduce each down to one characteristic (black man vs female).

Think of Hillary running against Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton. Is there any question who would get the nomination and the presidency?

But unfortunately, for her supporters, the most electable woman is running against the most electable black man in our nation's history. So unfortunately, she won't get the free pass that we all initially thought she would.

What is important to consider in this dialogue is that this woman is one of many elected women who would be qualified to become president. If you look at all of the women who are heads of corporations, leaders of education and social institutions, Hillary's credentials are rather mediocre. Which means that much of her resume is based on her role as the wife of a state governor and president. Outside of that she has not accomplished much on her own.

McGovern is dead wrong, wrong, wrong on whether it will be harder to elect an African American man or a white woman (he does not refer to her as a white woman, which is an important distinction these days.) One thing for sure is one or the other will be the nominee and it will not be until the election that anyone will know. He also left out the fact that the representative of another deprived group, seniors, is also going to find it hard to get elected.

"BROTHER JAMES BROWN SPEAKS"

IT'S A MANS MANS MANS WORLD, WITH A WOMAN AND A GIRL.

NOTHING, I SAID NOTHING....

ACCORDING TO THE CENSUS BUREAU! WOMEN OUT NUMBER MEN 17 TO 1.

IT'S JUST 16 OF THEM ARE UNDER LOCK AND KEY. 16 OUT OF 17 ARE NOT ALLOWED TO THINK, LET ALONE VOTE.

MEN ARE FREAKING ACROSS THE COUNTRY, TAKING THEIR LIVES AND THEIR WIVES LIVES RIGHT ALONG SIDE OF THIER CHILDREN LIVES.

MEN ARE ASKING FOR VACATION TIME IN THE GENERAL ELECTION TO MAKE SURE "MAMA" DOESN'T GET TO THE POLLS.

WHERE'S MY DINNER, DON'T YOU WORRY ABOUT WHO'S RUNNING THE WHITE HOUSE. YOU NEED TO WORRY ABOUT WHO'S RUNNING "MY HOUSE"

DON'T WORRY ABOUT VOTING, IT'S HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU. THIS ISN'T 1965 AND YOU DON'T HAVE A "REAL ID"

MEN AT THE PULPIT, MEN OF PRESS, AND THE MEN OF MEDIA ARE NOT GOING TO LET THIER WIVES, DAUGHTERS, GIRLFRIENDS, OR FRIENDS GET TO THAT POLLING STATION.

IT'S NOT TIME FOR A WOMAN TO TRY IF SHE IS GOING TO BOLD FACE BE A WOMAN AT THE END OF THE DAY!

"THE PROTECT AMERICA ACT" WAS TO PROTECT AMERICA FROM HER, SHE WILL BE THE ONE THAT ANSWERS THE PHONE AT 3AM.

THERE ISN'T A MAN IN AMERICA THAT CAN ANSWER THE PHONE AT 3AM! BUSH DIDN'T ON SEPTEMBER 11, 2001. HE HAD A SPEECH TO BE DELIVERED AT 9AM EASTERN STANDARD TIME.

REMEMBER, REMEMBER!

one day the U.S. will have a female president

if we want a good one, we must wait

Perception, founded AND unfounded, play a big role in elections. We are not where MLK wanted us to be--judging character instead of what you see. Race and gender do play a role in our perceptions.

I'll take a different approach to the question than Miss T. Only addressing skin deep perceptions.

Male v Female.
Being male is an asset. Males are thought to be less emotional more rational.

White v Black
Obama's race is an asset. He's biracial. Whites and blacks consider that exotic, and even more desirable.

That is not to say Obama has it easy. Easier than the alternative option, while the other's race represents racial oppression for blacks and the white establishment to disillusioned whites.

It would be harder to elect a dark black man who is running on a more Afro centric platform.

I like McGovern. I especially like what he said in a March 11th interview:
http://i4.democracynow.org/2008/3/11/fmr_presidential_candidate_george_mcgovern_on
Well, I endorsed Hillary last October. And I have to say that friendship had a lot to do with it. She and her then-boyfriend, a guy by the name of Bill Clinton, were the coordinators of the McGovern campaign in Texas in 1972. That was a brave undertaking. As Jim Hightower can testify, trying to sell George McGovern in Texas in 1972 was a daunting task. They worked their fannies off for me in ’72 all across that state. And so, when she decided to run for president, in a sense, it was kind of a “It’s my turn now.” I have to tell you this, Jim, that I have ten grandchildren. All ten of them are working for Barack Obama. That’s an indication of the influence I have in my own family. I’ve got three daughters and one son. They’re all working for Barack. So I’m the old fogey in the McGovern family this year, unlike ’72, when I was way out in front. But I agree with everything Jim Hightower said here, that Barack Obama has touched on a theme and a style and a content to his program that has brought millions of new people into the fold.

* * * * *

At a minimum there'd be a lot less dead people for no good reason.

Kind of like... well you know...

Posted by: Doug "Hussein" Zook | March 25, 2008 7:09 PM

Okay, Doug, you’ve stumped me. Nixon struck a deal in ’72 to withdraw our forces from Vietnam by early ‘73. Our ground forces were gone by the time stipulated in the agreement: 29 March 1973, and only our Air Force was left in the area to fly sorties for the ARVN. The Air Force was gone when the Democrats in Congress pulled the plug on that operation in ‘74. Although I could be wrong, I am unaware of any casualties resulting from the Air Force staying on a bit longer.

The last two military personnel to die in Vietnam were Marines providing embassy security – who would have been there in harms way as long as we maintained an embassy there.

So, short of withdrawing our embassy, I’m curious as to just how many more you think McGovern could have saved and how.

A penny for your thoughts, Sir?

Mark Silva,

I didn't get the memo, wussup?

A further remark on the subject: Nothing in America has been easy for Black people to achieve, contrary to what blue collar, working class, rust belt, redneck, and middle aged white women may have been led to believe.

One commenter above mentioned the fact that women outnumber men 17 to 1. The ratio may not be that high, but women have outnumbered men in this country for a long time. Women, as a group, are also wealthier than men and have a longer life expectancy. That begs the question as to why women have not used their numbers and wealth to get to the presidency. They have had a much greater opportunity to do so long before Hillary, and certainly long before any Black man or woman.

I think it is the same sentiment stated earlier by Geraldine Ferraro, but this time, with more substance. But this is not the election of race and gender.

Also, I disagree wholeheartedly. It is just that there is no qualified female candidate with substance around. That is the issue.

I don't know how Mrs Thatcher got elected, the process in UK is different, but one can see that the US can be lead by "Iron Lady" Only the fact is, Hillary is no Thatcher. She has maneuvered herself out for the last 16 years with Bill. She has too much baggage. Also, Now, she is showing her own color!

Let's see... if Richardson is Judas, who does that make McGovern? Doubting Thomas? Carville - who's next on the SS Billary Titanic ?

The relevant message of this article lies in these two sentences.
---
he also likes Obama, but didn't know much about him when he endorsed Clinton last year.

"I think very highly of him now," McGovern said of Obama.

This is the essence of this article. No color, No gender. Well put.

A penny for Doug Zook's thoughts. That is all about they are worth.

John W. uses fact and reason in regard to Doogie's illogical comment. Trouble is Doug doesn't operate with facts and reason. He is a disciple of John E.

Anyway, who in the world really cares what McGovern thinks, outside of the Far Left Media and its minions?

One day the USA will have a Black President. If you want a good One we must wait.

I'd like to see what Obama will do to create change in the Senate.

Hillary is a great candidate and will restore the USA to Peace and Prosperity. Americans are not as sexist as McGovern thinks.

Well, my comment on the story is this: This is why superdelegates are not that super in my eyes. He openly states that he made up his mind without doing any research. And that uneducated electoral vote now will eliminate how many educated citizen votes? This *super*delegate this is crap.

As for you posters from above. The uninformed poster that says being bi-racial is the best of both world for a candidate. Do some friggin research!! Blacks account for 17% of our population. And it is very possible to have close to 17% of the US population use race as a factor when voting, thus completely eliminating a black vote. My point is that it is not getting the best of both worlds, as he indicates. For politicians, odds are favorite will always be the white male.

And some fanatic above said that we have the most qualified woman of all time to be running for president. With all do respect, she is one of the worst. There have been hundreds of better women before in the past, there are a dozen better ones currently, and there will be hundreds more in the future. She is not the right one for right now, and fanatics are the only ones that don't see that.

'Anyway, who in the world really cares what McGovern thinks'........
Posted by JohnD.

1972 Answer; 1 state and D.C.

Paulo

John D:

FYI, Doug is always polite to me, and he never abuses me even when we have a difference of opinion. Whether you think so or not, that puts him in league apart from John E. At least, I think so. I may not always agree with Doug or him me, but I prefer to keep our dialogue on the friendly side.

So, if you don't mind, please don't try to build an attack on someone based on what I write to them in peace. It rankles me when you do.

Posted by: Mark Silva for President | March 25, 2008 7:36 PM

Much of what you say is true, but then again, Bush got us into an immoral and "irrational" war because of his "emotional" hatred of Muslims.

So, I suppose, he was just showing his feminine side.

The American Black community claims that they want to live in a society where discrimination doesn't exist, but they don't practice what they preach. when Obama continually pulls 90%+ of the black vote, it's obvious that most blacks are voting for a candidate because of skin color. Black men were given the vote a half-century before women of any race were allowed to mark a ballot, and generally have ascended to positions of power, from the military to the boardroom, before any women .Why is the sex barrier not taken as seriously as the racial one? Why is the black candidate given the continued media free pass and coronation and refusing to discuss his record. My family and friends have been following the 2008 Presidential election and feel overwhelming compelled to express our sadness, disgust witnessing the continued unfair disturbing treatment that Senator Clinton continually receives from men in the media. WE were frankly surprised to see how many men are threatened by Senator Clinton’s abilities, just read the articles. The daily gender discrimination and horrible names Senator Clinton is called, forced my family and friends to research candidates like obama ourselves since the media is no longer fair and unbiased. A black man has a better chance in this country than a white woman. It’s a shame that media keeps the race issue going in an attempt to disguise their gender discrimination against smart educated and powerful women. WE are tired of the race card that the media is creating and pushing in the face of voters. The media has dropped the ball. We the viewers and most importantly the VOTERS looked to news stations and newspapers for unbiased FACTS about ALL the presidential candidates to assist voters on making a wise and educated decision on who will run our country. Unfortunately you prove daily/hourly that your biased and often racial tabloid news It’s a disservice to our great country that you attack and discriminate a white female Senator and Former two term First lady who has done a great deal of good in 35 years of political service to our country that is dismissed and ignored for fear of upsetting a black candidate and his racial supporters. You should be ATLEAST reporting the differences and giving obama the same microscopic personal attacks that you continue to do to a white female United States Senator. You have no credibility in reporting the news. If we wanted this type of so-called news, we can buy the National Enquire. Women in this country should stand up and not be bullied by these men who do all they can to keep women underpaid and treated unfairly.

There are few American politicians for which I have the kind of respect I have for George McGovern.

He is a brave, thoughtful, and thoroughly decent man - completely unlike so many hacks typically sent to Washington.

But I think he is wrong here.

The problem with Hillary isn't just her being a woman, although I don't doubt it is for America's large apron-and-cookie-baking set.

Mrs. Clinton is an unpleasant personality, full stop. Her intelligence and energy simply do not compensate for that fact.

Now, despite all the talk people do about issues, it truly is, I believe, the qualities of personality and character revealed that influence the votes of most or many.

And this is not a shallow consideration. People want to be comfortable with the personality characteristics of the leader making decisions for them.

In the end, issues often reduce to little or nothing. Just look at Bill Clinton's eight years in the White House. You might well think a moderate Republican had held the office, judged by actual achievements.

He (and she) utterly failed on solving America's healthcare problems, despite raising great hopes. They took pride in ending conventional welfare. He sent missiles flying to kill innocent people and launched a small war in Serbia. He appointed some nasty pieces of work to offices.

America is fundamentally a very conservative country, one largely comfortable with militarism and huge, anti-democratic empire. It has always had a tendency towards a degree of fascism despite the high-sounding words of the Bill of Rights, words ignored or abused for the greatest part of the country’s history.

The countless abuses of its growth from thirteen colonies to a sea-to-sea colossus only differ in ethical qualities from those of Germany trying to secure the chief place in Europe because the people America overran – Spanish, Mexicans, various native tribes previously guaranteed their places on the plains, Hawaiians, and others - were smaller in numbers and less well organized. It was only briefly liberal-minded during the period of the Great Depression into the Cold War.

That liberalism was purchased at the cost of the Democratic party tolerating institutional racism in the South. Mrs. Roosevelt pleaded with her husband in private to do something about the lynchings and abuse in the South, but he explained that his coalition depended on the support of Southern Democrats.

When a Democrat finally did do something, the party lost its Southern following. And there things remain today.

No person elected will be able to create any dramatic change in the tenor of the nation, and that includes the remarkable Obama. He will put a friendlier, more cooperative face forward to a world horrified by Bush’s brutality, and perhaps succeed at this or that little change, but that’s as much as we can hope for.

Hillary’s metallic personality does not offer even this promise.

The overwhelming sense of her bind ambition – understood by many witnessing years of her ghastly marriage, her ethics about being truthful and consistent, her embarrassing compromises in rising to the Senate, and now her mud-slinging campaign – leave many, on the left as well as the right, with little confidence in her. This is of course a fault of many national politicians, but people like at least the illusion that it is otherwise.

John W., point taken.

Doug can be polite and interesting to comment with -- when he wants to be and when he is not trying to crystallize his credentials with the far left loon faction of his sector. It's just that lately I have not seen too much of the Doug you are trying to engage.

As for Mondale's claim that it is harder for a woman to be elected POTUS instead of a black man, ask Mondale how many (white) women are in the House and Senate in contrast to how many black men. How many women attend college in contrast to black men. How do (white) women do in life with money and housing and health and mortality in contrast to black men? As a successful professional woman, I am heartily ashamed to hear someone I used to admire play the race and gender card to advantage the Clinton dynasty. Carville also speaks for the Clinton dynasty. Carville has shown tremendous disrespect for the first and only Hispanic governor and should be drummed out of the Democratic party, if the Clinton campaign will not disavow him. Hillary is a horrible liar who cannot tell the difference between truth and lie.

Now that Hillary Clinton has been nailed in an outright fabrication of her role in Bosnia, it is time to remind ourselves of another, even more galling fantasy that Hillary tried to sell the voters.
After 9/11, Hillary had a problem. New Yorkers were desperately focused on their own needs for protection and they were saddled with a Senator who was not one of them -- an Arkansasn or was it a Chicagoan?
Interviewed on the "Today" show one week after 9/11, she spun an elaborate yarn. The kindest thing we could say was that it was a fantasy. Or a fabrication.
She said that Chelsea was jogging around the World Trade Center on 9/11 and happened to duck into a coffee shop when the airplanes hit. She said that this move saved Chelsea's life. But Chelsea told Talk magazine that she was in a friend's apartment four miles from ground zero when the first plane hit. Her friend called her, waking her up, and told her to turn on the TV. On television, she saw the second plane hit, disproving Hillary's claim that "she heard the plane hit. She heard it. She did."
So why did Hillary make up the story about Chelsea? Most likely to was because her co-senator (and implicit rival for the voter's affection), a real New Yorker Chuck Schumer spoke of his daughter, who attended Stuyvesant High School (Dick's alma mater) located next to the TRade Center, being at real risk on 9/11. Hillary needed to make herself part of the scene.
She invented the entire story on national television, the "Today" show, and didn't blink an eye.
Her fabrication on the "Today" show was no unique foray. It is her standard M.O.. It gives us pause in evaluating all of her stories and calls into question her entire credibility.

Little Johnny D,
I know you've probably heard this before but do you know when to shut up!? There was simply no reason for you to respond to John W.s comment. It was pure vanity on your part to reply, just so you could see your name in the Swamp. Did your mother not hold you or comfort you when you soiled yourself as a baby? You appear to be a miserable man-child.

Actions speak better than words.

Mr Obama choose Mr. Wright as his spiritual teacher for 20 years and included Mr. Wright in his election staff, these are the actions of Mr. Obama. When shocking hate messages began to flow from the mouth of Mr. Wright on television, hyperbole spin was written for Mr. Obama distancing Mr. Obama from Mr. Wright. The weird thing is, some people actually believe the spin written by Mr. Obama’s election machine. But regardless what Mr. Obama says, he chose Mr. Wright as his spiritual teacher for 20 years and added Mr. Wright to his election staff.

If you make the choice to listen and learn from Hitler every week over 20 years, do you expect me or any other rational being to believe that you wouldn’t be or want to be influenced by Hitler’s ideas? And what does that say of your personal integrity if you chose American hating Mr. Wright, or Mr. Hitler as your guide in life?

And also consider recent announcement that the chief of the firm involved in the State Department’s passport breach is one of Obama’s adviser. And that Obama has been caught lying about Rezko, regarding the amount of money Rezko gave him, and that Obama still hasn’t come clean about his Rezko land deal. Or further, how Mrs. Obama makes a phenomenal $317.000 a month at a hospital in Chicago that is famous for turning away the poor, especially the black poor.

If Obama were to become president, what would stop Mr. Obama from appointing Mr. Wright to his cabinet? And after Mr. Wright’s appointment, if anyone complained they would be called racist. And it seems as if this strategy - that it is racist to criticize a black man - is already in effect as Mr. Obama can do anything corrupt with minimal impunity by the public or the press. But if Hillary so much as sneezes, she is taken through the laundry and hung out to dry and then beaten some more. Such bias treatment towards Mr. Obama because of his race is racial discrimination. And I believe another reason why Mrs. Clinton is unfairly criticized to such an extreme is because the men of this country can’t stand the idea of a woman for president. Think about it. It seems a lot of powerful men in the media will do anything to keep Hillary Clinton from being president; clearly a libido thing.

We should have as our country’s leader someone with wisdom and knowledge, whose goal is the selfless betterment of the world. We should not elect someone with a personal agenda of personal power or select them because of the fashionably of their race or the prejudice of their gender.

Posted by: Xcellentform | March 26, 2008 12:36 AM

Learn to read. I'm talking about image. Image can be founded in fact or have no basis in it to work. Perceptions don't have to be founded in fact to have an effect.

In that respect biracial is an asset.

Image wise it is pleasing and something to aspire to. The reason why whites want to go tanning until they go orange. The reason why blacks don't feature beautiful dark skinned women in videos and black women use skin lighteners.

I'd go as far as calling you uninformed and one sided on the issue. However, I try not to portray myself as an authority figure on the subject by putting others down without trying to understand what they are trying to say.

I understand this comment, as he ran for President at a time when women were still fighting for equal rights, way back in the 1970's! We have come a long way! And Senator Clinton has not only carried the states that McGovern won, but the ones that he didn't! And of course, Florida, Ohio and soon Pennsylvania, the crucial swing states! Yes, we have come a long way. Hillary, keep going right to the White House!

I think it depends on the age and experience of the voter.

Historically in this country, black men were given the right to vote decades before women of any color. Black men could also own their own property, had limited but more opportunities for work than women, weren't subject to having their children, earnings, and land taken from them, and were allowed to divorce an abusive spouse.

The black man is no longer a slave, yet girls are still sold by their fathers, married off while still children, forced into prostitution, undergo genital mutilation, are lawfully gang raped and stoned to death, have limits to education, work in sweat shops alongside their children, must cover themselves completely, are forbidden to drive, and can not be in the presence of males that are not family. In some religions, women are not allowed to sit on the same side of the church as men (if they are allowed to attend service at the same time that is), and are forbidden to talk, let alone preach.

There may be an unjust number of black men behind prison bars in America, but I think women of any and every color are behind bars as well... you just can't always see them. The majority of people who live in poverty are women and their children.

There's still a long way to go, baby.

"America is fundamentally a very conservative country, one largely comfortable with militarism and huge, anti-democratic empire. It has always had a tendency towards a degree of fascism despite the high-sounding words of the Bill of Rights, words ignored or abused for the greatest part of the country’s history."

Posted by: John Chuckman, Toronto, Canada | March 26, 2008 9:09 AM

Dear Mr. Chuckman,

Have you, too, been spending a lot of time with Pastor Wright? What History book do you guys read to find this so extreme, and non-charitable, if not hateful view of America? How can anyone, other than someone else like you, take anything that you say seriously? Do you even know what Fascism really is? Most people do not.

There are no autocratic rulers in this country. There may have been a few presidents that wanted this kind of power for any number of well-intentioned reasons, but no one has ever really pulled that off compared to the Real Fascists of the World.

Where are the military brigades marching through the streets, demanding loyalty, obedience or just total submission? Where do you people get this asinine left-field stuff? Why do people put their life at risk to come to this Fascist Country? How is it that Cubans can float a '57 Chevy to make land in Florida? Why don't those that hate it so much just pack up and leave? I am sorry, Mr. Chuckman, but your socialist diatribe just makes no sense to me. I know I have a lot of questions here. Do you have any answers? Not talking about something that you, or Reverend Wright, just made up. Here's a tip for you. Save your money and just leave.

The reason for this is because racism is no longer acceptable in the US; people who are outwardly so are shunned. Sexism, however, is still acceptable and common. As a biracial (European & N. African) woman, I have never experienced racism in the workplace and very seldom come into contact with people who have said derogatory things about people of color in my presence.

However, I have had numerous sexual advances made to me by two different bosses in two separate workplaces. Also, men (both white and black) usually have a hard time believing that I attended a prestigious college. I don't dress seductively or speak unintelligently, but I work in an almost all-male environment, it's still hard for me to be taken seriously in meetings.

I don't agree with McGovern, and I greatly admire him. I think he's maybe a little old.... There's an interesting thread on this subject on this site:
http://digits.hrblock.com/ssDigits/digits.php?rType=1&sPath=1839&sNode=1839&uId=289

Now, who did he endorse again? Hillary's friends are blowing in the wind, much like her chances of getting the nomination, which are hovering near 5% now. It's time to throw in the towel and let all the old people go home to get some rest. Missing naps at that age is dangerous to your health!

Now, who did he endorse again? Hillary's friends are blowing in the wind, much like her chances of getting the nomination, which are hovering near 5% now. It's time to throw in the towel and let all the old people go home to get some rest. Missing naps at that age is dangerous to your health!