If John and Elizabeth want me to forgive MoveOn for endorsing the candidate who failed to stand up for them in the Senate when they were attacked over the General Betray Us (Which he and all those guilty! guilty! guilty! Neocons have) then I shall.
God bless John and Elizabeth!

Hey right Breck girl, those 52 straight quarters of economic growth (biggest ever in our history) really didn't happen.....right?

Don B....singing bushs' accomplishments all the way down the crapper.

Posted by: Don B. | February 25, 2008 12:40 PM

How's your pension holding up against your expenses, Donnie? Or are you a double-dipper?

Hey, Don B.

Tout the economy all you want...
We're just now beginning to see the effects of a falsely inflated economy. Encouraging the practice of giving out free money through loose lending has created a genuine trouble in the economy.
And, Bush stood there encouraging Americans to spend, spend, spend right on through. That's right, folks... Just cash in that new-found equity and debt yourself right on up so you can make the economy look good...
What's that? Oh, your own personal economies aren't doing so great? Hmmm... Well, no problem. We'll just get another bank to lend more money to you. And, then, Bush will be out of office and the Republicans can just put the blame on the next president, as the other shoe drops.

Hey right Breck girl, those 52 straight quarters of economic growth (biggest ever in our history) really didn't happen.....right?

Posted by: Don B. | February 25, 2008 12:40 PM

I never would trust anything Tin Foiler of the Year Don B says without double-checking, but this particular canard seems to be gaining currency and repeated more and more often. This one, being exceedingly obvious to disprove, leads me to believe that Rush and Co. are leading the gullible Don B's of this world far far astray (I know: shocking).

At the end of the Clinton presidency, the economy had been growing for 116 consecutive months, which, by my admittedly simplistic calculations, is more than TWICE AS LONG as the 52 months that Don B touts. What gives?

"My colleagues and I have been very appreciative of your [President Clinton's] support of the Fed over the years, and your commitment to fiscal discipline has been instrumental in achieving what in a few weeks will be the longest economic expansion in the nation's history." -- Alan Greenspan, Federal Reserve Board Chairman, January 4, 2000, with President Clinton at Chairman Greenspan's re-nomination announcement

By Don B's numbers, the economy began expanding again in late 2002, early 2003. The expansion that began when George HW Bush bucked conservative orthodoxy and raised taxes mildly continued all the way through the very end of the Clinton Administration. It is thus beyond me how 4 years of growth in the Bush II Administration could conceivably top this.

"John, Elizabeth Edwards: Blame Iraq for economy"

Yep and between 2001 and 2006 the all REPUBLICAN Congress and the REPUBLICAN White House ran our national debt all the way up to $11 Trillion.

The Rethuglicans always "promise" that they won't raise your taxes...that's true, they won't, because under Republican "leadership" you won't have a job.

PS - I'm still waiting for John McCain/Bush to explain how he plans to finance his perpetual war on Iraq and his "possible" upcoming war on Iran and still manage to fix our tanking economy?

I believe I forgot to post the link:

http://www.ndn.org/advocacy/conservativechallenge/historiceconomicgrowth.html

The underlying problem that is affecting the off balance sheet accounting of government employee retirement plans. My bet is that this is a 2 trillion dollar issue when we finally get the numbers.

THis is so much bigger than ENRON.

the new title for a good read -
How Your Government Employee Unions Have Stolen the American Dream.

http://pensiontsunami.com/blog/?p=19

I think you can pretty much blame anything from the past 8 years for the economic state... Iraq is pretty up there though.

Alas we voted for bush twice-what hope do we have-but wait, we now have the "hope master", the voter's new pied piper.

Nice.

Yet another continuation of the hypocrite that is John Edwards.

He votes for the war then phones in from his 28,000 square foot mansion to complain about the financial cost. From the man with "fire in his belly" to help the poor.

What a hypocrite. When will he go away? Why does anyone pay attention to such an abominable human being?

Alas we voted for bush twice-what hope do we have-but wait, we now have the "hope master", the voter's new pied piper.

Posted by: Rob Irwin | February 25, 2008 2:28 PM

Robby,

Actually you Wingnuts still have a "hopeless" warmonger you can follow in lockstep with, (John McCain/Bush).

Anyone who votes Republican hasn't been paying attention for 8 years. Why Republicans are even competitive is beyond me. They have damned near ruined America!

When will the Edwards learn that no one really cares about them. They just need to go away. Iraq and the conomy is like saying the storms in China caused the Giants to win Superbowl. It is called spurious correlations.

Just go away Edward

"Don B." sounds just like another right wingnut dingbat on this blog - Geographically Ignorant Dumb Dumb Little Johnnie Dyslin, "the Joseph Stalin of Streamwood".

The breck girl John Edwards is back for 15 more minutes of fame.
He lives in a 28,000 sq.ft. house and a 3,000 sq. ft beach house.
He headed a hedge fund that foreclosed on 34 poor families in New Orleans what a phony trial lawyer.
Get out period. Jerry White, Springfield, IL

Hey right Breck girl, those 52 straight quarters of economic growth (biggest ever in our history) really didn't happen.....right?

Posted by: Don B. | February 25, 2008 12:40 PM

Well, as a matter of fact they didn't.

Third quarter of 2001 was the last quarter that we had negative economic growth. That was less than 52 quarters ago.

http://www.bea.gov/national/xls/gdpchg.xls

http://money.cnn.com/2001/10/31/economy/economy/

I agree with Edwards. But President Bush says that the war is actually good for the economy.....
http://thefiresidepost.com/2008/02/19/bush-war-is-good-for-the-economy/

They have a point.

Obama for president 2008!!!

For news the DNC's Swamp affiliate won't broadcast: the latest Rasmussen poll shows Republican John McCain AHEAD of both St. Barack and Clinton II.

"Monday’s results also show John McCain continuing to hold a very modest lead against both Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton in general election match-ups. McCain now leads Obama 47% to 43% and Clinton 47% to 44%. McCain has consistently held a modest lead over Clinton but he moved ahead of Obama only in the past few days (see recent daily results and summary of recent state general election polls)."

Jones, If Clinton presided over the tail-end of 116 months of growth, which is a little shy of 10 years, then you are saying Bill and Algore were lying about the worst economy in fifty years. I can remember the big dork saying "Everything that should be down is up".

The main problem with the kook diagnosis is that most of our Iraq War spending occurs in the US. Food, weaponry, and manufactured goods are a little hard to come by in a country that produces little other than oil. Many of our soldiers are supporting families here and that is where their checks go.

You want someone who understands DC and the economy, vote for Nader. Here is a bit about his accomplishments: "Activists who support Nader, called "Nader's Raiders" have forced a wide array of industries, government agencies and foreign countries to develop practices to protect consumers and the environment. Nader himself founded, among other organizations, The Public Citizen, a group which encourages citizens to take action. He puts his money where his mouth is and donates most of his public speaking and writing fees to advocacy causes. In 1974 Nader was instrumental in acquiring the passage of the Freedom of Information Act, which he calls one of his proudest achievements. The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA), the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), the Consumer Product Safety Commission are among the consumer protection resources he influenced....

....He remains active in matters involving the environment, consumerism, foreign policy and campaign finance reform. Ralph Nader was chosen as the Green Party Candidate in the years 1996 and 2000. The Green Party is dedicated to consumer and environmental protection issues. At the turn of the 21st century, Nader was called "one of the most influential people of the 20th century" by Time Magazine. Laws that have resulted from his work over the past fifty years have given consumers the ability to defend themselves against corporations and against the government. In addition, countless lives may have been saved due to increasingly safe products."*

Now, here is a person of integrity and the true Anmerican spirit of good works.

*http://www.essortment.com/ralphnaderbiog_rcxs.htm

Vote Independent - Ralph Nader

I see Mrs Edwards has allowed John to open his trap again and it must be spring since nothing but fertilizer is coming out. The dumb trial lawyer is showing off hsi lack of knowledge on the economy. He may be able to channle the voice of dead children to extort mult-million dollar settlements, but economics is not his strong suit.

Economy has been growing since Nov 2001 - over 72 months. An economic recovery that started under President Bush, unlike the inherited economy that Bill Clinton rec'd and left an economy only 29 days from recession.

Ah....today Bruce "likes" polls today. BiPolar?

"THE CHAIRMAN SPEAKS"

THE SURGE IS WORKING. THE SURGE IS WORKING. John D. John Z. THE SURGE IS WORKING.

Democrats wants to "FORCE DOWN OUR DIVISION" by WITHDRAWING TROOPS FROM IRAQ.

What's 3.5 trillion dollars on a mere "PHONY ACHIEVEMENT"

What's 3.5 trillion dollars for "OIL RECONCILIATION" in IRAQ.

What's 4100 dead ARMY, NAVY, MARINES, AIR FORCE men and women on a "FAILED POLICY, FAILED SURGE"

WHAT'S 148 MILLION DOLLARS FOR SUNNIS ON MONDAY, AND SHIITES ON FRIDAY IN HOPES OF FINDING OUT WHO THE REAL "AL QUEDA" are in today fight against "BUSH COALIATION WAR ON TERROR"

WHAT'S BLACKWATER ANYWAYS!
WHAT'S AN "AUGMENTATION" OF A WAR?

3.5 TRILLION AMERICAN TAX PAYERS MONIES DOWN DICK CHENEYS' QUAGMIRE VICE PRESIDENCY.

SO DON'T ASK THE CHAIRMAN WHY THE LOBBYIST GETS A LETTER AND QWEST GETS "TRIAL LAWYERS"

POST 9/11!

Make that 39 days

Economy has been growing since Nov 2001 - over 72 months. An economic recovery that started under President Bush, unlike the inherited economy that Bill Clinton rec'd and left an economy only 29 days from recession.

Posted by: Terry | February 25, 2008 6:10 PM

Spelling Chump,

Yeah everything has been great....I mean really cough cough, the richer are richer, gulp snort, and these stinkin' little useless middle-class folk have even less, praise god, bless you bless you, God want's the rich white guys (Terri)to rule and the rest of you little people, OFF TO IRAQ FOR YOU because we rich white folk need to collect more cash from our no bid military contracts.

Oh god..help me...

Terri, pour me some more of your GOPer kool-aid.
I'm getting tired of lying, how do you do it?

http://photobucket.com/mediadetail/?media=http%3A%2F%2Fi65.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh224%2Fleavinit%2Fbudget_deficit_or_surplus.gif&searchTerm=deficit&pageOffset=18

The breck girl John Edwards is back for 15 more minutes of fame.
He lives in a 28,000 sq.ft. house and a 3,000 sq. ft beach house.
He headed a hedge fund that foreclosed on 34 poor families in New Orleans what a phony trial lawyer.
Get out period. Jerry White, Springfield, IL

Posted by: Jerry White | February 25, 2008 3:40 PM

That's it.. attack the messenger. you surely got nothing to say in response to the message.

"Jones, If Clinton presided over the tail-end of 116 months of growth, which is a little shy of 10 years, then you are saying Bill and Algore were lying about the worst economy in fifty years."

So, they were playing politics, or simply restating conventional wisdom. What's your point? You are exposing your Wingnuttery by throwing that smelly red herring out there.

And I'm not sure I would qualify 8 out of the 10 years as the "tail end" of the economic expansion, especially in light of the sky-is-falling rhetoric from your ilk of the day. The theory was that the 1993 budget deal that raised taxes on the wealthy in exchange for investments in infrastructure, technology and debt reduction would crush the economy... Woops!

I always find it funny when you get a poster who can pin point which day a recession will start. Tell me Terry, how many days will it be till we are in a recession? If so, what day did it start. If not, what day will it start? You need to hook up with the news outlets, they have all sorts of experts on and they really never know. They could use your help.

Common sense should tell you not to run huge deficits during a time of prosperity--what are you going to do when it rains? Grasshopper Bush has a lot to answer for, and it is just beginning.

Terrynomics-I'm doing great. F*** everyone else. I guess that's why all of you guys hate Edwards so much. He's a traitor to his club.

Tell me Terry, how many days will it be till we are in a recession?

Posted by: bill r. | February 26, 2008 7:30 AM

Bill, that's an easy one. If a Republican president is in office, we've got the best economy going. If a Democratic president is in office, we're in a recession and headed straight for the biggest depression ever. Haven't you figured that out?

Bill R,

This was a math questioned that even Trickled On John E would get. 11 days in January plus 28 days in February and its a miracle - 39 days.

I blame the Democrats and republicans for the war. And then I blame edwards for politicizing for votes.
He is a patsy playing the game for his buddy obama. The democrats are as much to blame for the illegal invasion as bush. They continue to push for war in other countries and now edwards is using this as an opportunity for votes.
Crooks and nothing more than opportunists

The true antiwar candidate is Cynthia Mckinney http://mckinney2008.com she represents throwing bush and all that have turned our country into nazi america. I will not vote unless she is on the ballot. Since the news media is owned by a few companies that in turn donate to the republican and democrat campaigns for election, our country will continue its path of destroying the integrity that we have fought so hard to create for centuries. In just a five years this government of democrats and republicans destroyed our name. It is terrible to think that if we went to europe for vacation, that we would be stoned and laughed at. My friend who travels for sales overseas says there are warnings for americans, so he doesnt dress or talk like a american when he is there cause he fears he will get beat up. My country is no more. And now my children are faced with the history that the republican and democart aprties did. Just like the nazi party did just a few years earlier, our country is faced with terrible circumstances with the next few years. Next month an organization called 'loose change' initiated a global peace protest against the war. This marks the 5th anniversay of our victory (yeah right) and now the war candidates want more war in other countries. We destroyed Iraq and the people there. I cry with pain cause of what we did and how we did it. And to think that noone elese even cares cause its not printed on the republican/democrat news channel. We are faced with real problems for our children of the future cause germany did not rule for that long from what they did. We have done the same they did using the same tactics. Lets join together and make it a point that war is wrong. My Grand mother who is over 80 years old will be at the protest next month. Here is a list I found of places protesting http://worldagainstwar.org

I agree on the whole with Stacy's rundown of the tragic situation. nd to McKinney I would add the name of clear-eyed Dennis Kucinich, who is on the mark on every issue, has the brains and the determination. But is not welcome at debates - impeachment might get mentioned. Nobody wants that one, but I'd bet my right arm that it will be all the rage in about two to three years to look back and say, yeah, "they" missed the boat, they really should have impeached Cheney and Bush. But by that time, the Patriot Act, the Homeland Terrorism Act, and the Military Commissions Act will be permanent laws, and it will not be possible to make such comments so freely on the internet - or even think them. Time will tell.

However, perhaps because of her rightly felt grief, I would hasten to point out to Stacy that on the most important issues of the war, economy, health care, and tax reform, among others, there are salient differences between Obama/Clinton and Edwards, who is out of the race and not out for votes. Edwards offers the best and most concretely rational proposals on all fronts.
Sadly it takes a closer look, some googling, to comprehend this, because the media did such a thorough job of shamelessly and fundamentally blanking out his candidacy, only now and then offering a gratuitous mention that did not even aspire to create a semblance of fair coverage.
To their permanent discredit, the two other main candidates and the entire Democratic party failed (or refused, out of fear or ambition) to challenge the media on their transparent treatment of Edwards, which did not go unnoticed abroad, at least in some quarters.
(so that Clinton's current complaints about media bias - against her of course - amount to crocodile tears)
Only the Guardian UK felt the need to address the media's Edwards blackout head on; among other things, on Jan. 11, when it had become painfully clear, they sought answers, and ran an alarming article featuring the names of leading corporate lobbyists - not just another anonymous poll - that quoted them individually saying that they were seriously AFRAID of an Edwards candidacy, while they "could work with" and were comfortable with either Obama or Clinton. Fair.org only recently picked up on the media's blackout, without however noting the Guardian's irrefutable evidence linking it to the underlying motives of corporate-owned media, led by mega-defense contractor and NBC master, GE, followed by TimeWarner with CNN, Rupert Murdoch's global FOX empire, with Viacom and DIsney rounding off the rest.
With GE`s 100 billion revenues (with Exxon's 300 billion in view), “the same parent company that brings you the “Nightly News” and the “Today Show” is also creating aircraft engines, locomotives, private-label credit cards, medical imaging technologies and nuclear energy equipment.”
Small wonder that it viewed such a prominent voice as Edwards, who came so close to the White House with Kerry in 2004, as a real threat. In such huge conglomerates, the tiny news media subsidiaries, news-gathering budgets slashed, forced into the ratings game, are not hard to manipulate.
And having succeeded (so far) in sidelining the most threatening presidential prospect, they can afford to allow the media to toy with the remaining non-corporate threatening candidates, who have no intention of raising taxes on the rich or ending the Iraq occupation ASAP.

As far as the economy goes -I guess eight years of denial over a WHite House coup and subsequent manipulations into lethal war pay off; some people will deny to the death that the sky is blue.
There are statistics about the economy, home-building, loss of pension, health insurance, and foreclosures, that compete with the 1930s Depression.

So what we end up with: two lame, ego-centric, hot-air expelling candidates smugly freed of all serious challengers, prompting Nader to take up the call at the last minute, a final stab, hoping only to put a bit of truth back on the table.

Edwards is in a difficult position that few appreciate, and his wisdom and patience are exemplary: it is a marvel that he remains a staunch member of the party despite its structural flaws, choosing to believe in a Democratic party that is better than its current manifestation. One is not sure what to hope for in his next steps in to the uncharted, certainly untread territory of a reformist, merit-based movement seeking to install ethical, public-spirited values in the current vacuum of marketed ideology. I watch him, as I observe McKinney and Kucinich and also Wexler, with care and concern and not a little hope. In the absence of balanced news coverage and the principles of fairness, all are struggling to find peaceful and effective instruments of reform and justice, along with a handful of dedicated non-elected activists who lead dedicated groups. My most heartfelt prayers are with them and I do all I can to support their work.

Is it any wonder our country is in dire straits? This is the worst list yet of misinformed citizenry that I have seen. And they are angry about INVESTIGATE THIS BOTH OF G.W.. BUSH'S GRANDFATHERS MADE THE FAMILY FORTUNE SUPPORTING HIYLER'S WAR! SEE IT ON THE WEB!