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Barack Obama: NIU shootings call for action

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Election 2008
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Posted February 15, 2008 11:34 AM
The Swamp

by John McCormick, updated

MILWAUKEE – Sen. Barack Obama this morning commented on Thursday's shootings at Northern Illinois University, as he also discussed his views on gun laws.

The Illinois Democrat, talking for the first time about the shootings in his home state, said during a news conference that he had talked to the school's president this morning.

"My thoughts and prayers go out to the families of those who were killed and those who were injured….when a madman walked into a lecture hall at Northern Illinois University and opened fire," Obama said.

Obama said he pledged whatever support was needed for the school.

"I told the president that I would obviously make my office available if anything could be done to help deal with their situation with the families and ongoing investigations and discussions about approved security," he said.

Obama talked about the ongoing suffering, after attention inevitably goes elsewhere.

"They come in and out of the headlines and after a while, most of the world goes on," he said. "But for all the loved ones who are left behind, the pain and sorrow, I can only imagine, remains for a very, very long time."

Obama said the nation must commit itself to "do whatever it takes to eradicate this violence from our streets, from our schools, from our neighborhoods and our cities."

Before speaking to a rally here, Obama said the nation must do a "more effective job of enforcing our gun laws, strengthening our background check system, being able to trace guns that are used in violent crimes to unscrupulous gun dealers -- so that we can crack down on them -- closing gun show loopholes."

He specifically pointed to a California law as a possible model.

"There was a discussion today about a law that has just passed in California that allows micro-tracing of bullets that have been discharged in a crime so that they can immediately be traced," he said. "This is something that California has passed over the strong objections of the NRA…That's the kind of common sense gun law that gun owners as well as victims of gun violence can get behind."

Obama said he believes in the Second Amendment, but that there is plenty of room for added gun regulations. "There is an individual right to bear arms, but it's subject to commonsense regulation," he said.

Mentioning his home city, Obama said local entities should also have the ability to have their own more strict regulations.

"I think that local jurisdictions have the capacity to institute their own gun laws…The City of Chicago has gun laws, as does Washington, D.C.," he said. "I think the notion that somehow local jurisdictions can't initiate gun safety laws to deal with gang-bangers and random shootings on the street isn't born out by our Constitution."

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Obama has done nothing for the state of Illinois so why would you believe he would do anything now.

Wake up people, your voting for a person who voted for the extension of NAFTA.

Time to do some homework you guys.

What a blithering moron Barack is and incredibly insensitive he is too. I mean, this is such drivel from Obama. Calling him a madman, well, duh!!!!!

Is that about right, Lefty Loons?

I think Senator Obama should come home and support this community. He's still senator of this State. Or has he taken the approach the current president takes? Hands off

This man thinks that gang-bangers will obey gun laws, and he wants to be president?

I think we need to start wiretapping all US college students phones without warrants. Anyone who disagrees is on the murderers side and hates america.

Obama should come home and show support. We need to know that as a presidential canidate that he is willing to show up in times of trouble. Especialy in his home state.

Obama keeps talking about "change." If closing the non-existent gun show "loophole" and technologically impractical microstamping are what he supports, he can "keep the change."
I'm from IL and there's no worse example of common sense regulation than in this state.

Just think. If there had been micro tracing of bullets, the cops could discover the serial number of the shotgun used at Northern Illinois, as well as the identity of the shooter. Is this what Obama calls common sense??

I think it is absolutely appropriate for Sen. Obama (D-IL) to express his support for the school and the victims of this tragedy that occurred in his home state. I heard that, like the VA Tech student, the shooter had a history of mental illness. Where are the background checks? This is just common sense. I also like Obama's idea about marking the bullets - I mean, after all, it's the bullets that kill, not the guns. Having traceable ammo would at least help law enforcement get the repeat offenders off the streets.

The more I hear from Obama the more I "hope" that he will be the Democratic nominee so I can vote for him in November.

I guess calling Obama bad names is tactful and insightful. The man is a Harvard Law School graduate and once was the Harvard Law Review's Editor but some "poster" on the internet can seriously call him a moron? Trash his policies but not him personally.

Obama is a fool....nothing he would have proposed would have stopped the carnage....the gunman was on medication and he should have been commited...but the libs would NEVER do that ...that would have violated the gunman's its "let's screw the NRA time"

Criminals do not follow laws.
Laws are lines drawn in the sand.
Unless the "line drawn in the sand" is enforced (enforce - to COMPEL observance of), the criminal will just kick it away.
...20,000 gun laws and few are enforced... need for a new gun law...

some pretty strong feelings you've got there. can you rationalize that? a blithering moron? well, i think you're entitled to your own delusional opinion, but i think i have as much right to ignore your rather dim-witted intellect. in all due respect. and besides, what don't you all understand about the need to reconcile our rights to own guns, which he supports, with the need to have an infrastructure in which madmen, and erratic gangbangers can't have it their way? we can have it both ways. we need to understand that private gun owning is a tradition of American society, as well as a right. but that have loose guns out there where any vicious sociopath can find them is against anything human? open up your minds. you're living in the real world.

Let's see, the shooter bought the guns in Champaign within a month before he went on the shooting rampage. He was on medication, yet he could still purchase the gun and get it within a short period of time - how can people say we don't need more strict gun legislation?

Shouldn't gun buyers be screened for mental problems. Is it right that someone who's feeling down can go and pick up a gun in a matter of hours? Wouldn't it be better if we had them fill out paperwork and then allow them to purchase a gun in six months time, when hopefully they've cooled off?

I personally see no need for handguns - you can hunt with a rifle.

"What a blithering moron Barack is and incredibly insensitive he is too. I mean, this is such drivel from Obama. Calling him a madman, well, duh!!!!!

Is that about right, Lefty Loons?"

Gosh, that's such a mature statement. I can't imagine who you support. Must be really bored with your life, John D.

I support the second amendment but I agree that today's gun laws do not protect our children enough. Let responsible adults have guns but good lord, let's hold those who sell to black market dealers accountable. I refuse to confuse my right to defend myself and the government's right to protect our children, much as the gun manufacturers would like me to.

There is too much hatred regarding this election on all issues - both between the candidates and the public in general. This is not the ethics this country was founded on!!!! Let's work together for solutions, folks.

Good grief, the guy expresses his concern and sorrow and look the whining comments that result. As long as there are guns and anti-depressants, these events are going to happen. I say hold the gun manufacturers, gun sellers and pharms accountable. Things would change real quick.

Here's another example of guns in the wrong hands. The NRA would have us believe that guns don't kill people, people don't kill people. Well, if this guy didn't have access to a gun, would six college students now be dead?

Wake up, gun crazies! The Second Amendment was about regulated militias having the right to bear arms, not some moron who wants to feel cool by packing heat. And the NRA's ridiculous stance of resisting even the most logical legislation reduces their power and their reach. Guns are not a Constitutional right! We ought to ban guns altogether.

How would the ability to trace bullets prevented this from happening.
Frankly we've created these gun-free kill zones in schools and malls. I live in another state that allows concealed carry permits and anytime I have to go to a mall or shopping center I'm carrying.
I'll be contacting my local senator. It's time that we allow teachers and school administators that get proper training, be allowed to carry a pistol. I'd much rather know that my kids have an armed teacher than to think that in the event of a shooting at the school, their only defense is to lock the door and keep out of view and hopefully the nutcase thinks that no one is in the classroom.

Reports today reveal that the shooter was off his medications and bought two of his four weapons within the last week in Urbana-Champaign, Illinois. This is not an example of strong gun laws. There is no way someone on psych medication should be able to buy firearms. Go to hell, NRA!

Since he was an official campaign volunteer, is John McCain going to give this lunatics contributions back or donate them to a violence prevention organization?

Micro tracing bullets? What good would that do, especially in light of what happened?

Here's an about not only arming the guards/Police on campus but also allowing CCW's for any qualifying teacher or student? Once again, had one student or teacher been armed, the perp would've been taken out immediately.

Of course the liberals will disagree and state schools will become a 'wild west'.

Wake up people! It takes an armed person to take down an armed murderer. That is the only solution!

Say the word "gun" and all the NRA supporting loons feel compelled to overreact. It's such a comically knee-jerk reaction. Watch:

Gun, Gun, Gun, Gun.

Just for the record for those of you who don't bother to read anything that is insensitive to the Clinton or Repub campaigns Senator (and hopefully soon to be President) Obama is in Illinois. They did not say what state he was speaking in through the course of this article; however other articles have mentioned that while Billary is off trying to salvager her campaign Obama was in Chicago LAST NIGHT.

"A shoot-out is better than a massacre!"

Its long past time to put an end to 'victim disarmament zones'!

Sen. Obama's remarks are measured and intelligent. Some of the responses in The Swamp(Lefty Loons)reflect no intelligence whatsoever.

I have just discussed this tragedy with three Writing, Rhetoric and Discouse 104 sections here at DePaul. The remarks, comments, suggestions, opinions and ideas by these freshmen writing students were very remarkable and creditable.

Ken Bill

This shooting episode
is probably more an issue
of mental health matters than anything else. This young man seems to have had a major shift in his mental
state. Mental health is not given enough priority of funding in this country.

The alleged murderer appears to be a talented young person who derailed and has now killed others and ruined lots of lives.

Calling Senator Obama names in a juvenile, tasteless way is absolutely no help to anyone...including the
overwrought speaker.

Even in the midst of such tragedy, you posters continue to spew your venomous words?

Like animals?
Wanna lose weight?
Care about the environment?

The ignorance in many of these posts is disheartening. Gangbanger? This was a so-called 'outstanding student' at a University. Wiretap all college students? We live in a democracy, people--we have rights and we have regulations of those rights. You can't know what drug user or kid off his medication is going to go coo-coo; what we can do is keep guns out of their hands by cracking down on illegal & last minute gun sales, and improve quality of life so that fewer people end up committing these crimes. Obama is just using common sense, which is lacking in most of these posts. Instead of focusing on whether or not Obama should come home to console the University, perhaps one should wonder why our President isn't attending funerals of our fallen soldiers...

The really sad part here is that all those Obama children think he has such great ideas. Ask your parents how long the idea of gun control has been knocked around. He gives nothing new and he sure as heck doesn't give a clue as to how he will manage to get such changes through congress. Or is he thinking like Bush now - I'm President and what I say goes.

By the way D Chicago, none of the credentials you spout mean a lot. Bush graduated from Yale, perhaps more prestiguos than Harvard, but look at what he has accomplished. As for being an editor, that means he perused someone else's work, and not necessarily with much effort. Perhaps you should look deeper into the puppet you so blindly stand behind. He has never really argued a case in court, at least not per the records. He's been a poster boy all his life.

I think it's you guys who need to wake up. Obama has done nothing for Illinois? What exactly is it that you would like him to do for us? I don't see him state anywhere that "he thinks gang-bangers will obey gun laws". Learn to read. Furthermore, I suppose if McCain or Hillary are President that none of this stuff will go on under their watch. McCain can't even control his 300 mile border, yet you think he's going to control thousands of miles of borders? By the way....yeah, Obama called him a "madman". Do you prefer Friendly Neighborhood Spiderman instead?

If Obama thinks serializing ammo will somehow stop these types of crimes or any others, he's mentally unbalanced and shouldn't be allowed to own firearms, no less become president.

Sounds like when Bill Clinton said the crack dealers in Michigan should have used trigger locks to prevent the little boy from getting shot with the illegal guns in the crack house.

I too don't enjoy the "blithering morons" who present opinions without relevant facts or solutions. First, wiretapping all college students?? In addition to the fact that this would require tapping all cell phones (what college students use hard lines in their dorms/apts??), we must immediately think take away civil liberties before we consider better regulations for purchasing firearms. And secondly, does Barack's physical presence in Illinois make a difference? If Barack shows up at a victim's home does that make the pain for that family go away?? His job is to make change with public policy to improve the lives of Americans. I hope he can do this... and perhaps the best way to do this is to talk about gun issues on the campaign trail. As for me, I am sick of the annual random murder sprees that have occurred with legally purchased weapons (neither VT of NIU at gun shows) without further discussion of how to make it better. Perhaps its better to bury our children than to trouble 2nd amend. advocates with further restrictions...

Wow... After reading a lot of these comments I can't help but be further disheartened at the state of our world. Obama has addressed the situation and proposed a solution to assist in a resolution of our recent catastrophe and yet there's mostly nothing but hurtful remarks without any viable alternative and suggestion. He's vouched his support, he's contacted the appropriate officials, and he has offered his condolences all while on to the road with what I believe to be a sincere hope towards improving things not only for Illinois but for the nation in its entirety. It's a shame that people tend to use their hurt and anger to bash any and everything. This is what keeps our world in a negative state of crisis. Instead of the negative bashing, how about we use our creative efforts to offer viable, useful, and POSITIVE solutions to the crisis that this nation is facing. WAKE UP people. The behavior and attitudes displayed in your words are what creates disasters as the one recently in Dekalb.

I am a student at NIU who spent most of yesterday worrying about friends and reassuring friends and family who were worried about me. It'd be really nice if you put aside the political side of this story and saw it as a bad day for a nation, and a tragic day for a community.

First off, as a Senator, Barac has been absent more than he has been present in office. The logic of serializing bullet casings will not work. For anyone who has visited a gun range, and shoots for sport or practice, will have no way of gathering spent casings. The floor is littered with thousands of them, and what would stop a criminal with intent, to pick up someone else's spent casing, reload it, and use it in a crime? Wow, what a great idea. Now your ending up prosecuting the wrong person, because he has been framed. The answer is to enforce laws and keep the criminals of this world in the prisions where they belong. Or better yet, what ever happened to the electric chair in Illinois? You can thank George Ryan for that.

To Mr. Hilton...micro tracking of bullets allows amunition to be tracked and those who sold it or gave it to another to be held accountable if it is used in a crime. Not a solution in-and-of-itself but if you can do better to get more restrictive gun legislation thru a bunch of politicians whose consituants love to hunt and who are funded by the big gun lobbies, go for it!

Shut UP!!! Shut Up!!! You right wing Nazi Wake Up !!! go back into you holes. Deal with it. He Will be President

Part of the problem with these shootings is that they are so glamorized. You may have seen some of the first interviews of students who were there; some seemed just excited about being on TV. It seems as though our society is becoming increasingly desensitized to this kind of violence, and it doesn't help when the news chooses to air interviews that come off flippant and self-absorbed.

There has been a connection in many of these shootings to mental illness, but *so far* no specific mention of the NIU shooter's illness, only that he was on prescription medication for mental illness. There are millions of people in the US who function perfectly heathily on prescription meds everyday. It's unfair to paint all in that category with the same brush and take away their constitutional right to bear arms. I'm not pro- NRA and I don't have a mental illness, but I think it's a bandaid fix to tighten up gun control laws to fight shootings such as this. There are deeper societal issues at stake here.

I'm disappointed that Barack called the gunman a "madman." It's already been reported that the shooter had mental health issues and had been off his medicine. He was not in his right state of mind, but that doesn't give anyone the right to call him names. However, I agree with his point about microtracing.

I would bet most of those comments above are from the same right-wing gun loon. They have a consistent tenor of idiocy to them.

Funny how all these shooting happen where there are too many gun laws AND people are not all to carry concealed. Our politicians are too stupid and stubborn to see that.

We didn't have all these shootings until we created these "Gun Free Zones". Gun free zones are killing zones. These killers don't pay any attention to signs or laws. 48 states have concealed carry laws. You have a right to carry a firearm for personal protection. I carry a loaded handgun 24/7, legally in 36 states. You would not want to be the slob that that tries to rape, rob or kill me.

First of all, Obama can't just show up on the campus. It would be viewed as trying to seek publicity out of this tragedy. He spoke to the school's president and offered his support. I think that is a perfectly acceptable response.

Second of all, to 'Republican Logic' - you should probably re-evaulate your name. I see no logic in wiretapping student's phones. This doesn't just happen on college campuses - I was held at gunpoint on the streets of Chicago. And I'm pretty sure wiretapping the mugger's phone wouldn't have done any good. And saying 'anyone who disagrees is on the murderers side and hates america' is kinda harsh, don't you think? I disagree with you but I am by no means on the murderer's side. Having just graduated from a Chicago university, this hits awfully close to home for me. I have friends who are currently attending NIU - imagine my thoughts as I tried to get a hold of them to make sure they were okay. Your comment, which basically said 'agree with me or agree with a murderer' is an excellent example of the kind of mentality that alienates those just wanting to see a unified country.

We may all have different views and opinions - which ALL of us are entitled to - but let's agree with this: a horrible tragedy had once again hit us. Let's just send our thoughts and prayers to everyone affected by this.

Leave your name calling and egotism out of this situation - for everyone's sake.

For those who blame the NRA and the guns, you should know that anyone who has a history of mental illenss is legally prohibited from purchasing a gun. But obviously the state did not bother to make that info available to the licensed dealers. And only a person of ignorance claimes that 2nd Amedment means that you can use a gun in a state militia. Do a little research instead of wistful thinking.

Gun control has gotten more people killed, once again; those unarmed students with no means to protect themselves because of ignorant, utopian ideas that say your better off defenseless. You liberal idiots cannot see a pattern here with gun free school zones?

I am a Northern graduate and had at least 4 classes in Cole Hall. It terrifies me to realize that our society had denigrated into one where there is such a level of senseless violence.

Mental health issues are out of control. We as people have not evolved or developed that much in the last century, so why are our actions so out of proportion? When I was in school, it never crossed our minds that anyone would shoot anyone, rape anyone or cause such violence in a school, or mall, or public space. Kent State was the anomoly, not the norm.

I am anti-gun, but let's face it, guns were easier to get 30-40-50 years ago, yet these kinds of issues did not exist.

So the question now is, do more people need mental health care but do not have access to it? Is our society so violent that this is the norm? Where is the "family" community to help those in need.

Parents have done poor jobs in educating their children in dealing with anger and personal issues, if parents even take time out for their kids at all. It seems that families have disconected from each other to a startling degree. What is the solution?

In all respects, the NIU shooter should have had a stellar career and life ahead of him? Where did he and so many of these other shooters get derailed?

Until we understand what went wrong, it will never be corrected. No one politician can fix this, society and families need to pitch in and funding for programs need to be made available.

I submit for you this information regarding whether or not gun control reduces gun violence.

Data of violent crime for MD and surrounding States
Same data placed into chart format

As you can see, over the last 6 years the "pro-gun" regions around us have had a far lower violent crime rate. Even if you remove DC from the equation (where oddly enough the gun laws are the most strict and violent crime is the highest), the average violent crime rates for the anti-gun states are 100% higher than the pro-gun states. Just some simple facts all from and their annual crime statistics report.

Controlling guns is always the go-to response in situations like this. Having that gun and using it was NOT the disease, it was merely a symptom. This was, apparently, a very bright young man who had been working to educate himself. Why would someone like that do this? That's the question we should be asking. Not "How can we stop him from getting a gun?" which is similar to saying "I have the plague, but its really these ugly little spots that are the problem."

I'm not surprised lots of folks fell into my trap with my earlier post calling Obama a blithering moron, etc. You see, if you go to the Swamp item regarding Bush's statement on yesterday's tragedy, you will see Loony Left after Loony Left calling Bush those names. Just giving you folks a little taste of your medicine.

Obama is a way out of line here. Using a trajedy to spout off about gun control laws and turn it into an advertisement for his campaign. What else would you expect from a Crook County politician. Let the families grieve a little before you pimp out their loss. Also IL has the strongest gun laws in America and guess that didnt make a diff to this guy. Drugs are illegal too but tehy are everywhere. The problem isnt the gun it is the crazy person. I have no problem with gun laws but lets not try to politisize a tragedy. This a shameful act on Obamas part. I hope all will stand up against using a tragedy to trumpet your politics.

I find it absurd that everyone is blaming laws banning concealed weapons for this tragedy. Look everyone, it is illegal to drive faster than the speed limit yet most people do it daily. It is only illegal to carry a concealed weapon if you are caught. The reason people en masse don't carry around guns with them is because THEY KNOW GUNS LEAD TO INCREASED DANGER. Case in point: Banks. They could hire armed security guards, yet they don't. Why is that? Because they know a shootout does not make the public safe. There policy is to simply hand over the money to robbers and allow the cameras and ink to bring down the criminal.

Tsk. Tsk. Tsk, Obama. You had me at hello and then you come up with this B.S. We don't need more laws. What we need is a president willing to say NO to gun manufacturers.

There are way too many guns on the streets in the wrong hands and they'll remain in the wrong hands, no matter how many laws are passed. Just get rid of the guns.

Will the press please call out Obama for politicising a tragedy for his own benefit. What kind of a human being uses a trajedy to spout off about his poltical stance on the issue. I am ashamed that I voted for this man, and I will not vote for him in the general election unless he issues an immediate apology for using a trajedy to further his campaign for president. Even as a fan of Obama I can still say what is right and what is wrong. There is a time and place for everything and that was not it.

I'm disappointed that Barack called the gunman a "madman." He was not in his right state of mind, but that doesn't give anyone the right to call him names.

Posted by: Rekha | February 15, 2008 2:14 PM

Absolutely without a doubt we should be smearing this pathetic person in public. We should show everyone who will listens that anyone who would carry out something like this is a complete and total piece of %*it and we won't tolerate these acts. The perps don't deserve our sympathy, they deserve our scorn. Maybe then there won't be any copycats from people who think the attention means that society gives a damn about what message Cho or this &%*$wad was trying to send us.

Last year Chicago had the lowest murder rate in 60 years and NYC the lowest in 45+ years. Both metro areas did it with restrictive gun policies. Go figure.

This story provides more evidence that politicians like Sen. Obama, who know little or nothing about guns, should not be creating more gun control laws. His call for ballistic fingerprinting and registries makes little sense for the following reasons...

1) Maryland and New York already have such systems in place and the results...millions of tax dollars spent to obtain ONE (to my knowledge) conviction...speak for themselves
2) The markings that a firearm leaves on spent casings change over time, and it is fairly easy to purposefully change the markings that a firearm leaves
3) Many crimes are committed with revovlers, which do not leave any casings behind
4) As at least one other poster pointed out, it is possible to go to a firing range, pick up a few spent casings and scatter them at a crime scene, confusing investigators and possibly framing an innocent person
5) Most crime guns are obtained through theft or the black market, and in that case a registry offers police no help

Also, for those bashing the NRA consider two points...
1) The NRA does not advocate allowing mentally unstable individuals to own firearms, and in fact the NRA was instrumental in crafting legislation last year which attempted to make it more difficult for mentally unstable individuals to obtain firearms
2) The NRA is an outspoken advocate of the right to keep and bear arms, which a majority of this nation believes (and which the Supreme Court will shortly confirm) is an individual right. Before knocking the NRA ask yourself what you would say about organizations that zealously defend other constitutional rights

All the students and teachers were disarmed in the "gun free campus" and another killer is given his targets who can't shoot back. Senator Obama forgets that the law abiding don't kill and maim, just the people, countries and religions that have gone crazy. Trust Obama with the 2nd Amendment, I don't think so.

Amend the Second Amendment. It is obsolete for the 21st century. A civilized nation does not need this archaic amendment.

By the way, there is nothing that Senator Obama can do when the supporters of NRA bully the entire nation. So, do not blame him for your ills.

Yes, it is a tragedy that those students were killed. Sorry.

However Obama is one of the people to blame for this action. He and his liberal, progressive bunch with their idea of government over everything have tied the hands of citizens being able to protect themselves.

"GUN FREE ZONE" What an open invitation to anyone who wishes harm to others.

"PROTECTED BY SMITH AND WESSON",..and "I DON'T CALL 911" are a better warning. 48 states believe in concealed carry.

The police can't be everywhere. (unless you believe in socialism)
You can place the blame for 99% of the gun crimes squarely on the backs of Ill-n-noise Cook County democ"rat"s.

As an aside,...micro stamping is just another "feel good" idea.

I intend to exercise my right to "keep and bear arms" I AM PART OF THE PEOPLE.

I won't walk down a fools road.

Ok, something weird happened in this world today, I, John D., actually agree with Dumb Dumb Janet's post at 2:53. How does that grab you, Janet?

Another case of a massacre in a gun-free zone.

If there had been just one person in the class who had been armed, the death toll would have been much less or none at all. Just one.

Barack ought to know that micro-stamping of ammuntion does not work with shotgun pellets, as were used in this incident. Heck, it's unknown how well micro-stamping works on any ammunition.

Mr. Right: what the hell does hunting have to with this?

Jana: Are you kidding me? Bullets kill?!? People kill people. Guns and bullets don't! They are only a means to an end. If getting gun is so hard, he could as well have made a molotov cocktail.
Anyone who thinks people who intend violence will obey ANY gun laws to get their hand on a gun is either blind or delusional. If you have decided to kill people, getting an illegal gun isn't something you would shy away from. Barack's common sense may be 'common' .. but it doesn't mean it's correct. Then again, 'feel good' policies and speeches are what get him the votes. How sad ... that people who vote don't think with their head enough.

Are you kidding me? People are nit-picking Mr. Obama's calling the killer a "madman?" Sll the while five families are having to plan funerals due to this disturbed individual.

The changes Senator Obama has suggested (gun shows, micro-tracing) would not have prevented one school shooting.

You would not want to be the slob that that tries to rape, rob or kill me.

Posted by: Stu | February 15, 2008 2:27 PM

I also don't want to be the slob who's around you when you lose your temper or fly into a bout of road rage. I don't want to be around when your carrying after having had a few too many beers. The more guns easily at hand, the more arguements and other incidents that will turn into murder.

I think it would be difficult to debate Obama on the meaning of the 2nd amendment or what is allowed by law. He was a constitutional law professor at University of Chicago. (lecturer - professor - whatever - doesn't matter - he knows what he his talking about).

Whether one things a locality should have a regulation or not is an open question. He didn't say that every place should have restrictions. He indicated that states and local governments have the right to enact gun regulations. That is really not debatable, unless you ignore what the Supreme Court has determined the law to be for maybe 100 years.

Let it be known that I feel terrible for the injured people and the friends and families of those killed at NIU. But I heard news reports of the valiant police collectively patting themselves on the back for their "rapid" response: 4 minutes. When seconds count, the police are 4 minutes away (and that's a better than average response time). I suppose it's pointless to say that a lot of crap can go down in 4 minutes...5 dead people--I'm surprised it's not 50. You see, liberals, this is the precise reason I carry a gun--legally. Until such a time as a MR. POLICEMAN (with a gun) can materialize at the touch of an "easy" button to stop the BAD, BAD MAN WITH A G-G-GUN, there will always be the need for swift, in-kind retaliation to violence. I say we arm the professors/students who qualify (believe me, it's rigorous) so that the tables will be turned on the next punk who wants to go down in a blaze of glory and pop himself with his last round. Now that's prevention! A concealed weapon is just that--concealed. No one knows it's there until it's to be used as a tool to stop a massacre. Libs...don't tread on me. My guns never hurt a soul. Your "gun-free" victim zones only serve to embolden and encourage the punks. Or...or perhaps we just need to focus on the literacy rate. How, you ask? Well, evidently that poor misguided youth couldn't read the NO GUNS sign on the door! (Sarcasm implied) IF THE FISH WERE SOMEHOW ABLE TO SHOOT OUT OF THE BARREL, WOULD WE EVEN HAVE THAT SAYING?

Let it be known that I feel terrible for the injured people and the friends and families of those killed at NIU. But I heard news reports of the valiant police collectively patting themselves on the back for their "rapid" response: 4 minutes. When seconds count, the police are 4 minutes away (and that's a better than average response time). I suppose it's pointless to say that a lot of crap can go down in 4 minutes...5 dead people--I'm surprised it's not 50. You see, liberals, this is the precise reason I carry a gun--legally. Until such a time as a MR. POLICEMAN (with a gun) can materialize at the touch of an "easy" button to stop the BAD, BAD MAN WITH A G-G-GUN, there will always be the need for swift, in-kind retaliation to violence. I say we arm the professors/students who qualify (believe me, it's rigorous) so that the tables will be turned on the next punk who wants to go down in a blaze of glory and pop himself with his last round. Now that's prevention! A concealed weapon is just that--concealed. No one knows it's there until it's to be used as a tool to stop a massacre. Libs...don't tread on me. My guns never hurt a soul. Your "gun-free" victim zones only serve to embolden and encourage the punks. Or...or perhaps we just need to focus on the literacy rate. How, you ask? Well, evidently that poor misguided youth couldn't read the NO GUNS sign on the door! (Sarcasm implied) IF THE FISH WERE SOMEHOW ABLE TO SHOOT OUT OF THE BARREL, WOULD WE EVEN HAVE THAT SAYING?

To everyone who believes there should be more concealed weapons on the street. Read the lyrics to Skynard's Mr. Saturday Night Special. The song was written because, "40, 50, 60 years ago", supposedly the best and safest times according to one poster here, many people were taking guns to bars getting drunk, getting into arguments and killing each other. Sure you'll respond, "it should be unlawful to carry guns into bars then". Well I guess that would make bars a Gun Free Killing Zone and we are back to square one.

Big Jim's been drinkin' whiskey
And playing poker on a losin' night
And pretty soon, Big Jim starts a thinkin'
Somebody been cheatin' and lyin'
So Big Jim commences to fightin'
I wouldn't tell you no lie
And Big Jim done pull his pistol
Shot his friend right between the eyes


Hand guns are made for killin'
Ain't no good for nothin' else
And if you like to drink your whiskey
You might even shoot yourself
So why don't we dump 'em people
To the bottom of the sea
Before some fool come around here
Wanna shoot either you or me

Some of u people r crazy. did he say gang bangers would follow gun laws?? No he didnt. I dont recall any of these school shootings in the past years have been done by gang members. These were young people that no one knew were troubled and if there were ne sighns people ignored them or refused to believe the sighns that werre given. I wanna know who would u people vote for instead of barack and if they voted for the president we have today. For the person that says he hasnt done anything for our state and that you would not vote for him let me ask u this what has our current president done for this nation ecept cause great economic problems and a lot of hurt families and friends because of this war?? Its time for a change and i think he is what we need. This presidential election is one that will be read about in history books for years to come. Who would have ever thought that a woman and an african american would have a enourmous chance of being president of our country. Personall i feel that they would make a great team and would acomplish a lot together.

If Obama thinks his anti-gun rhetoric is common sense then he is merely proving that he has none! Gun control is not the answer! In fact, this is another case where a concealed-carry holder at the scene could have reduced the horror! Concealed-carry holders in 40 states have proven their reliability and lawfullness. The idea espoused by some that throwing books or "rushing" at someone armed with a pistol or shotgun is ludicrous!
If a 21+ yo (MANY students are older - ex: military vets, adults pursuing more education, etc.) has demonstrated that they have what it takes to get a concealed carry permit for off campus, then they have demonstrated that they can just as reasonably be trusted to carry a concealed weapon on campus! With this statement Obama has demonstrated how divorced he is from reality when it comes to firearms.

I hope people who post ideas here bring their thoughts and opinions outside this area and rationally debate their ideas with others. Only then would people be exposed to other points of view and allow others to at least learn different sides of the story.

Personal attacks and comments accusing someone of being a "nazi" only goes to show people's inability to see events, statements or this political race from anything but snap judgement. Welcome new ideas, embrace change for the better. Any complaint or concern can only be changed by a solution. If people have better ideas for some of these issues, i think sharing them would be the first start to a solution, not crude attacks.

Obama's point of traceable bullets clearly was not intended to infer that it would have prevented this shooting. He clearly was pointing to that option for us to think about and consider as a way to deter shootings in the future. Standing back and looking at the big picture of Obama's comment would make that obvious.

I agree with some of the comments on here when they say people need to stop making such rash snap judgements.

for a presintal canadate
on the one hand to he supports the second amendment. then turnaround,
call for more gun/control
laws tells only thing he is a big fat lier........
we have enough liers in office we don't need another one espaicaly as president of our country
also these politions ought to be arrestd for violating thier oath to protect and
defened the constitution
against all enimies both here
and from other countries!

" I say we arm the professors/students who qualify (believe me, it's rigorous)"

Posted by: Jared | February 15, 2008 3:31 PM

Rigorous? Hogwash.

You can get a concealed carry permit with almost no training.

Wow,... lots of venom spewing forth.

First, just because a person believes in the right to keep and bear arms they are not "gun nuts" Second, if you feel that guns are evil instruments, then don't own one. And as far as Obama or Bush being less than mentally capable; you do NOT rise to their positions by being stupid. If you think that either of them are stupid idiots, it is time that YOU seriously looked in the mirror.

Now, on to the meat of the subject. More gun laws will not stop tragedies such as this. Gun registration, micro-stamping, gun buy back programs, and such are all feel-good measures. As a former paratrooper with dual college degrees, plus a graduate degree (just to let you know that I'm not stupid), I can truely say that there are FAR simpler ways to take out large numbers of people than shooting them (ref. Timothy McVey & 9/11; not necessarily simpler, but you get the point) such as our soldiers are dealing with in Iraq on a daily basis. Any person with the ability to read and follow a recipe can produce weapons of considerable power in their own kitchen. My uncle spent 27 years in the Army Special Forces before retiring. His specialty was demolitions. I know what can be "cooked up" with ingredients found in the typical US household. It's scary. If you think that banning firearms from private use will prevent such actions at NIU and VA Tech, you'd better wake up, Sleeping Beauty, because you're in dreamland. But wait, if we can get rid of the Second Amendment Right, then we can get rid of the First Amendment as well. That way no one will be able to read books/articles/scientific data on how to make explosives, poisons, breed viruses, etc. At that point, people who wish to do harm will have to resort to throwing rocks and sharpened sticks.

And for those who think that we do not need firearms in a "civilized" society, think back on gun-control in the 20th century. In the '30's Germany implemented gun-control and millions of jews had no way to protect themselves. Japan decided against a direct land attack in the US during the early part of the war because so many citizens owned firearms. In the '40' and '50's how many millions did Stalin and Chairman Mao kill, because they could not defend themselves? I know,... ancient history. Well then there's Pol Pot and Cambodia in the '70's and '80's, And what about Bosnia, Rhwanda,... should I continue? I know, that's not the good ol' USA where "We the People" determine how our government runs. The only reason that we the people remain in power is because the Second Amendment guaratees that we can fight a totalitarian goverment to preserve ALL of our rights, even if that goverment is one of our own making. Thus endeth my soap-box ramblings.

Microstamping and serializing ammunition doesn't work. It only drives up the cost of everything related including trying to enforce it. What about the people who reload?


If you are the smart veteran you claim to be, you should know that no amount of handguns, or sport rifles, is going to stop a government intent on supressing your rights or an invading foriegn army. That takes much more serious firepower. Heavy machine guns, Rocket propoelled grenades, shoulder fired anti-air missles at a minimum. You are living in a fantasy land if you think otherwise. Do you want the average citizen to have that sort of arsenal in their homes?

I feel for Senator Obama. The poor man is "damned if he do and damned if he don't." No matter what he says or does, someone somewhere will find a reason to criticize his actions. If he had not offered his condolences to the victim's families he would have been criticzed. He offers his condolences and attempts to show his concern and he is crucified, and then like clock work, it never fails, someone will post a comment containing the word RHETORIC. After this election is over and Barack Obama is President, he should ask congress to "outlaw" the use of this overly used and abused word, RHETORIC. It is pathetic how many "followers" have latched onto this word (rhetoric) as if it had recently been added to the English language and they could not wait to use it in a sentence.

Why is no one talking about the fact that most of these people that have done these massacres all have a history of mental illness. Maybe we need to take a closer look at the laws surrounding mental health issues and getting people the help they need instead of beating gun laws to death. He bought the gun legally and even if he didn't all of these tools to trace the gun after the fact aren't going to help the people who where killed. We need to be proactive in helping people with mental disease.

When the wolves come into the flock, many of you sheep are going to let them eat you?

From some of the tripe I've read here, I think quite a few.

I am sad to see so many of our citizens brainwashed by the Liberal(communist) machine. Sad,sad, sad,so sad.

"Those who do not remember history are bound to repeat it."

I suggest some late night HISTORY book reading for alot of you. Not "Social Studies".

How about a call for repentance from our leaders!

How about a call for outlawing or at the very least a stiff taxation on those entertainment forms that glorify killing, violence, sexual abuse, etc.

This nation is reaping what it has sowed.

Of course, we should pray for the families of all the victims, yes!

But, this will happen continually until we as a nation turn to God in repentance. Confess our sins and forsake our sins. We have ignored God and worshiped entertainment and all sorts of things that leave God out. We make ourselves gods and wonder why this sort of thing happens. We must take heed to God and His commandments. Until we do, we are a doomed society.

Common sense by Julie...guns were FAR easier to get +50 years ago....ANYTHING, including handguns, semi-automatic rifles, even anti-tank weapons, could be purchased through the mail, door-to-door, no Federal involvment of any kind and little if any State. Yet few if any of these atrocities occurred. What's the difference today? All I can say is, if you don't look past guns, and pass feel-good legislation, you'll still have the same problem, and the Law of Unintended Consequences may just hand you a bigger bloody nose than you expected....

"After this election is over and Barack Obama is President, he should ask congress to "outlaw" the use of this overly used and abused word, RHETORIC. It is pathetic how many "followers" have latched onto this word (rhetoric) as if it had recently been added to the English language and they could not wait to use it in a sentence."

Veejay,....Remember; "FREEDOM OF SPEECH"? You want to take that away too??

The Second Amendment protects the First.

In Britain no one carries a gun. No cops. No criminals. No people with mental challenges. And students don't get wiped out while trying to get an education.

God save us from our short-sightedness. We don't know what's important anymore.

Gun control is not crime control. You cannot legislate morality. If an individual wants to commit a crime with a firearm, they will get a firearm, legally or illegally. We need to concentrate on enacting stiffer penalties on people who commit crimes with guns, not enact stiffer regulations on law abiding gun owners. Areas such as California and DC that already have tough gun laws still see gun violence, proving that this feel good gun legislation does not work. It seems that these "Gun Free" school zones are becoming a common target for these rampage shootings. Maybe this should be a wakeup call to allow the legal carrying of concealed handguns. But thats not common sense. In the end - Gun Control, a simple solution for a simple people.

I live in Tinley Park, many friends of mine go to NIU. The Tinley Park Shooting recently hit so close to home, it's unreal, i've never had to deal with something so real, you hear about it happening far away, so the fact that it was in my town creeps me out...then a little more than an hour's drive is another horrific shooting less than two weeks away, friends of mine were in danger, the reality just doesn't seem real, and for barack to say the same thing everyone else says about gun laws is fake.. he is using these tragedies to aid his campaign, he needs to stick to being senator and stay home, or resign! his job in IL is failing... what makes you think he'd make a good president... if he can't handle one is he going to handle 50?!?!? I don't have the answers to stop all this violence and outrage in this country, and neither does anyone else. if we destroyed all the guns, someone would invent another deadly device, violence and terroristic events are something that will never go away... maybe we shouldn't be at war with Iraq, maybe we need another civil war seeing that there are so many problems in our own country, we look past them and venge other countries.. we need armies in our schools, we need protection, we send our troops out there to stabliize their communites...what about ours?!?!?!?

I live in Tinley Park, many friends of mine go to NIU. The Tinley Park Shooting recently hit so close to home, it's unreal, i've never had to deal with something so real, you hear about it happening far away, so the fact that it was in my town creeps me out...then a little more than an hour's drive is another horrific shooting less than two weeks away, friends of mine were in danger, the reality just doesn't seem real, and for barack to say the same thing everyone else says about gun laws is fake.. he is using these tragedies to aid his campaign, he needs to stick to being senator and stay home, or resign! his job in IL is failing... what makes you think he'd make a good president... if he can't handle one is he going to handle 50?!?!? I don't have the answers to stop all this violence and outrage in this country, and neither does anyone else. if we destroyed all the guns, someone would invent another deadly device, violence and terroristic events are something that will never go away... maybe we shouldn't be at war with Iraq, maybe we need another civil war seeing that there are so many problems in our own country, we look past them and venge other countries.. we need armies in our schools, we need protection, we send our troops out there to stabliize their communites...what about ours?!?!?!?

i guess we shouldn't be surprised at such mindless violence when we read some of the postings here. we demonize people we don't agree with. it's a very small step from demonization to making it "ok" to kill. what is wrong with you people?
thoughts and prayers to the victims and their families.

Thanks to Senator Obama for his succinct, kind words and support to the victims' families and peers. For the gun gang - Would you let a blind person drive a car? Or a drunk? An active epileptic off their medication operate a moving crane? No. Just because you have certain "rights" does not mean there aren't restrictions. For example, though alcohol prohibition, written into the Constitution, was later repealed, common sense -AND LAWS- restrict when, where and even how you can drink. You can't drink and drive, states can set the drinking age, etc. But the NRA, due to dubious, shady dealings, would like no restrictions on gun ownership or use. They truly only care about themselves and their peers, but they have to put up the front they're standing up for everyone to minimize criticism. Any law-abiding citizen without an external agenda wouldn't have any problem with reasonable, common sense laws, rules and regulations. Bunch of hypocritical, money grubbing murderers-by-proxy.

It is a historical fact that "gun free zones" are where unarmed victims are at risk.

Obama could have been for change and led the way to train and arm teachers in his State. Obama could have been for change and fought for his State to adopt a concealed weapons program so that trained qualified citizens could have the tools to implement personal self defense. Obama could have fought for change and introduced legislation in the Senate to abolish all "gun free zones" on the national level. Instead, he has used the term "change" so those gullible, those non-thinking, and those genetically sub-prime individuals who can't invision implementing their own self defense are lulled into believing Obama wants Government to look after them even more than it does now. Obama could have fought for change by fighting to restore Americans civil rights as listed within the Second Amendment.

The reality of Obama is that he wants more unarmed victims zones and he wants to ban all State rights for concealed carry, thereby taking away the greatest civil right of all, the right of self defense. As such, Obama is a threat to every American's personal safety. The question is, when will Americans realize this is change we don't want.

Does anyone really think gun owners are that stupid? To listen to politician after politician who immediately after a criminal gun MISUSE tragedy comes out and says,"What we need is MORE GUN CONTROL...." and really expects the gun owners not to understand that what they mean is "WE NEED MORE LAWS CONTROLLING PEOPLE AND REMOVING GOD GRANTED GARRUNTEED RIGHTS...."? I own guns, I shoot guns, and my guns have killed less people than Ted Kennedy's car! In fact, my guns have never injured anyone either. 80 million gun owners did not kill anyone today. Gun Laws only control honest people. Politicians have killed more people than all the criminals in the world reference: Hitlar, Stalin, Pol Pot, Janet Reno, Bill Clinton, George Bush, JFK, Lindon Baines Johnson, FDR, and a host of others world wide. 200 million died in the 20th Century alone. Gun laws disarmed MOST of those victims...this gun owner is sure to fight against any confiscation or lessening of the 2nd Amendment. We fought the British when they tried to confiscate our guns on April 19, 1775....what makes you think we won't fight the federal government when they try to take away our guns now? Think about it. Gun Owners have already thought it over and as long as we are left alone, we will not cause trouble, mess with us and rue the day. Trust us and we will be the ones defending you and your rights which INCLUDES the right to live free of criminal harrassment. Can you anti-gun people say the same? You people are so ready to remove the 2nd Amendment rights of people like me, who will defend you when the federal government starts removing all of the other rights? The 2nd Amendment defends all those other rights which Americans have fought to protect against a host of enemies, foreign and domestic enemies. Consider that, then thank a gun owner for the rights you have!

Isn't it funny how liberals (or "progressives") always clamor for the latest feel-good legislation, be it buy-backs, stamping, waiting periods, "NO GUN" signs, etc.? And yet they refuse to acknowledge and enact the only true deterrent criminals respect these days: facing stiff resistance. Surely our slap -on-the-wrist, cable tv, weight room, early-release penal system engenders precious little trembling. You see, liberals believe that strength is evil...that's why they abhor effective self-defense. Interestingly, we have a stark contrast of real-life scenarios to ponder before rendering judgment: VA Tech played out a lot like NIU, but with more ammo. However, Jeanne Assam, a WOMAN who was armed stopped a much better armed assailant at the Colorado church. Remember that one, only 2 months ago, people. "Only" 2 people died, and those poor girls were outside the building. Sadly, these terrible massacres (I don't use the term "tragedies"...I save that word for cancer, tsunamis, etc.) will recur with greater frequency until we finally get it right. If I were a college student on any campus today, those NO GUN signs would not apply to me...why? Because they don't apply to anyone to whom they are intended to apply. Liberal, answer me this: Should Jeanne Assam have attended class that day with HER legal weapon, what would YOU advise her to do? Lay down and play dead? There was no shortage of that tactic.

A few points:

Interesting the bell curve going from "left" to "right" with the responses. The extremist responding on either end and then in the middle, there are a few responses that are not emotional but at least attempt some measure of rational response. Most everyone's understanding is a bit off on the 2nd amendment. Please, read it and then read supporting opinions surrounding it. It's not hard, please take the time. It IS important. Don't use this incident as a "release" for your inner angst either for or against gun regulation.

Also, keep in mind that you will never know what Obama believes or thinks. Always remember that politics is a game, you decide what platform is required to provide the most optimal chance for winning. That platform will be "extreme" early on to mobilize the existing target base and then moderate as we get past the primaries. What Obama personally communicates has nothing to do with what he personally believes, it is all about pushing the right buttons to get past the primaries. So, enough with the personal attacks on Obama. Everyone plays this game, I mean EVERYONE.

No one believes that mentally unstable individuals should have access to arms. However, what does that mean? For how long? What is "unstable"? How many "normal" people are on anti-depressants? How is that enforceable? Honestly, these are the hard questions which no one cares to spend time to think through objectively. It is impossible to have a simple law that solves complex human behavioral issues by controlling external environmental factors (assuming a tractable enough problem).

Lastly, common sense is the key here. Remove the natural tendency of class/social status hatred from the left and the right, and understand that while technically, the 2nd Amendment can be interpreted to allow full military weaponry to the citizen, that ain't gonna happen. Also, removal of all weapons, ain't gonna happen either. So somewhere in the middle, is the answer. I know it is fun to "hate" or stereotype a certain group's behavior since it helps foster identity within our own social group, but at the end of the day, we have to come to a reasonable stance on gun regulations. I know it's not exciting, and even boring, but we need to get there.

When will people stop asking "Why?" You are vainly searching for rationality in an obviously irrational act of violence. Just stop trying. If you must have an answer to why, understand that he committed this crime because he COULD--no deterrent whatsoever. This is WHY crime rates decrease whenever ccw laws are passed. And it's why D.C., England, and Australia suffer today. Why can't we be personally responsible for our own safety? Novel thought there! Instead, it's always shoved off onto the police or other government agency. No disrespect to our nations finest, but they usually show up after the bulk of the shooting is over, with chalk, mop and bucket in hand. I say the murderer is the only one who SHOULD be lined in chalk when the bell rings! (To the average liberal, that sounds cruel...It sounds quite natural, however, to the families of those slain.) This argument is only logical--common sense usually sounds this way.

Fine, lets ban guns or license them. Then I want to require all newspapers, editors, reporters and commentators to get licenses as a condition to publish or write. After all the First Amendment really is a collective right, not a individual one

My deepest sympathy to all affected by this tragedy. It seems to me that no one could have predicted this, except maybe the doctor who prescribed his medication. Didn't he keep tabs on this man? Did the doctor warn anyone of the effects of stopping the medication? Didn't the shooter have a roommate who needed a warning? I'm shock at the number of legit drugs which can cause dramatic effects if stopped suddenly. Why isn't there a program to be certain people who need drugs are getting them, and conversely, people are prescribed drugs who don't need them. If this a "medication error" it should have been forseen that shooter was dangerous.

Two points in this ramble:

1. Enacting penalties on people who commit crimes with guns does not address the problem when someone shoots people and then themselves which is characterstic of school shootings. We need a more humane society which is why Barack is the best Presidential candidate.
2. The gunman was not "taking pills", he was actually NOT taking his pills...which helped lead to "erratic"--and tragic behavior. Yes we should track people who are on prescribed medication for mental illnesses, depression, etc and DISCOURAGE them from getting and using guns.

They can kill!

I'm really surprised at all of these comments! If Obama is using common sense, how will microstamping bullets PREVENT killings like these? How can local jurisdictions be allowed to keep creating their own gun control laws that do not work?? D.C. has the highest percentage of murder by a firearm in the nation, Illinois (Chicago) comes in 2nd and California comes in 3rd, but these 3 states have the strictest gun laws in the nation and keep introducing more restrictions! Does anyone know why Illinois and Wisconsin are the last 2 states in the nation that have not introduced a concealed carry law, which has reduced crime by 50% in all the states that have this law?? Yes,,,the U.S. Constitution prohibits infringement of the right of the people to keep and bear arms, so why are the rights of gun owners being infringed by all the countless gun control laws that do not stop these type of killings nor stop the criminal from using guns???

Is it wrong for a man just to basically state he's sorry this happened, and also to offer his prayers, and support to the friends, and family who suffered these losses. That is Basically all he's doing. You with out sin or fault cast the first stone! Let's come together, and stop finding fault with each other, nobody is perfect, but God. I believe he did the right thing. Let's love each other my sisters and brothers. We all came from one creater, and bleed the same red blood.

I guess if I had to get a Moose for survival here in AK I will need to get him with my bare hands since getting a rifle would scare those who have harassed me for years - Oh no! He can get back at us! And since I have been rightfully diagnosed from depression from real circumstances created by my haters then I cannot fly a plane or buy a gun to sustain myself in case I have to move to remote areas. Well, at least now I am not afraid to starve to death anymore!

LBJ, re: "In Britain no one carries a gun. No cops. No criminals. No people with mental challenges. And students don't get wiped out while trying to get an education."

You need to take a better look at the crime stats in the UK and Australia.

Violent crimes have gone through the ceiling there since gun control. Are guns harder to get? Yes. But the criminals are killing people with knives, broken bottles, or beating them to death with baseball or cricket bats, or anything else that isn't nailed down. Sometimes, surviving an assault like this is worse than dying.

NIU is a gun FREE zone. That means that anyone who wants to ignore the law can go there and kill anyone they want. It becomes survival of the biggest.

No... the answer is to allow students and teachers to carry weapons.

PS: Am I the ONLY one here who caught on to the fact that "Republican Logic", the one who suggested tapping the student phones, is an obvious liberal pretending to be a Republican? Or someone who posted a tounge in cheek message?

These shooting sprees will continue as long as the liberal loons insist on "Gun Free Zones". One may as well post a sign that says shoot the unarmed sheep here without fear of having fire retuned.
I'd like to know if this clown was a muslim or an import like the last one was.

As far as Obama's idea of serializing ammunition- it's a pie in the sky and it doesn't work. To clarify obama's mis-statement- It did not pass in kalifornia and it also failed in Hawaii again because it does not work. There is also no gun show loop hole. When are you people going to learn that people like obama, clinton ad even mccain thrive on events like this to work up emotion with their uninformed lies? When he talks laws like in DC he fails to mention that before the DC law was implemented the crime rate was on it's way down. In the thirty years since that absurd law was enacted. Crime has gone UP 200%. The fact is this folks. More guns less crime. These type of shootings are done by cowards. If they knew they might be cut down before the wiped out a bunch of people they would not try it. Common sense gun control means hitting the target you're aiming at. Now adding more laws to the 20,000 plus already on the books.

"Guns are not a Constitutional right! We ought to ban guns altogether."

Posted by: JGK
Hey idiot - What do you think the 2nd Amendment says?

Obama reminds me of Bill Clinton back in the day. Faster to the scene of a shooting than an ambulance.

"To everyone who believes there should be more concealed weapons on the street. Read the lyrics to Skynard's Mr. Saturday Night Special." Jackson, if you form your opinions from a rock group that died 20 years ago in a plane crash there's something wrong with you.

Too bad candidates are so afraid what needs to be said...we need to get rid of the guns.

Way overdue. Gun control hasn't worked because it does not exist.

So I have to comment on a few things that I've read in here. First, that the second amendment was for regulated militias, not individual gun owners. Well I believe it was actually to give people the right to bear arms in case it became necessary for them to defend themselves against their own government. A regulated militia would defeat the whole purpose. If guns were to be banned, then the only people with guns would be the government, and those with access to a black market (ie organized crime, and "gang-bangers"). The first step to rendering a population defenseless is to take their arms away.

Second, the idea that we need to keep track of people on anti-depressents. Well, news to you, I don't know if you've stepped in a high school lately, but do you have ANY idea how many people, kids in particular (who will be adults in the near future) are on anti-depressents? We're treating it like its some sort of disorder, but the truth of the matter is, people are depressed because we live in a depressing, alienating society, and to track those people that are prescribed medication for it would do nothing more than track those who can't fit in with our materialistic capitalist society.

Lastly, I'd like to comment on the comment made by someone calling themselves "Republican Logic," who says that we should tap every college students phone without a warrant, and if we don't agree that we're on the murderer's side, and we hate America. I don't even know where to begin, as there is not microgram of common sense OR logic in that statement. As a college student, I don't think that I'm supporting any murders just because I don't want people listening in on my conversations. And I'm also pretty sure that its not anti-American to defend rights guaranteed in the Bill of Rights. It's people like you that make pacifism really hard.

England passed a handgun ban as well as many rifles years ago. Aust. did also. Instead of violent crime dropping it has gone through the roof. There are more blackmarket guns and more criminals with guns then ever before. They illegal guns are coming in through traditional drug routes and the guns are more powerful then before the bans.

Many other countries have a high gun ownership rate with a very low violent crime. Guns are a Red Herring the problem goes much deeper. Guns were much more available 40,50 years ago in the U.S. we did not have these problems.
What has changed? Answer that and you can really start to solve the problem.

Obama wants to bring the troops home to safety, yet he wants to continue to allow anyone and everyone to have guns here. I believe there have been far more people killed by guns in the US than troops killed in Iraq this year. They are safer there than here!
I would like to see all these conceal/carry proponents placed in a room with there weapons and have 1 unknown person fire a shot - how many of them would end up shot?! Can you spell c-r-o-s-s-f-i-r-e?

To Jana:
The problem with micro-stamping is that it does not work technically. It does not work at all on revolvers. For semi-autos it wears out after a few 100 rounds, and it is a federal crime to replace serial numbered components outside of the manufactuer. Tests have born out that it does not legiably stamp consistently, and it is incredibly easy for criminals to deface the stamp. Furthermore, smart criminals could just pick up empty casings at gun ranges and "seed" the crime scene to confuse the investigators and provide "reasonable doubt" in their trials.

Most telling is that the law excludes police departments because there is fear the mechanism may interfere with realiability. Be it cops or a citizen defending your life, when you need your gun to work, it better work - period. Anything that interferes with that basic fact is not worth buying. And if it is not good enough for the police, why should I be stuck with it?

Are you serious about the 2nd Amendment "right to bear arms" applying to today's society? Why do you PERSONALLY need to bear arms? And, what's up with someone calling an Obama supporter a "sub-prime freak"...seriously?! The people who think they need to bear arms need to be put away. Barack is smarter than every single person who commented on this article (myself included) so the haters in the crowd need to quit bashing him, stop thinking about themselves only (we are a large country with a lot of problems) and get on board with what is good for the whole...not the half...not the quarter...not the ONE who wants to shoot ducks.

To Katrina : I live in Illinois and just for the record, Obama was only in Chicago last night to "spend Valentines Day with his family". And although he was only 65 miles east of the shooting in his home state, he didn't bother visiting the campus before he left today for the campaign trail.

And you're incorrect in stating that "They did not say what state he was speaking in" - note at the top of the article it says "Milwaukee" and later says Obama made these comments "before speaking to a rally here". BIG HINT: Milwaukee is in WISCONSIN.

First: Illinois ALREADY has some of the strictest gun laws around, and LAWS DO NOT STOP CRIMINALS!
Second: Illinois DOES NOT ARREST CRIMINALS, it puts INNOCENT PEOPLE IN PRISON! They have already been caught doing this, and are THE WORST STATE IN AMERICA WHEN IT COMES TO FRAMING INNOCENT PEOPLE (which means that the criminals are still out on the streets committing crimes).
Third: You cannot/should not complain about crime, when your Illinois citizens BRAGGED FOR OVER 40 YEARS about ALWAYS HELPING CRIMINALS AND HURTING HONEST PEOPLE!
Fourth: I am the ONLY honest person in my family, and I spent DECADES trying to get the law enforcement in ILLINOIS, WISOCONSIN AND GEORGIA to LOCK UP ALL OF MY RELATIVES FOR FELONY CRIMES!! Do you KNOW how many times my relatives have been investigated??? NONE! NONE! NONE! NONE! NONE!!!!! DO YOU SEE THE REASON FOR CRIME??? I DO!!!
Fifth: While I attended a community (public) college in Illinois, I helped school security (police) catch a criminal who was trying to harm women on THREE DIFFERENT OCCASSIONS, and ON EACH OF THESE OCCASSIONS, school officials OVER-RIDED MY WANTING TO PROSECUTE THE CRIMINAL AND THEN THE SCHOOL OFFICIALS RAN AROUND THE SCHOOL MAKING PEOPLE THINK THAT I WAS THE BAD PERSON-- That is how Illinois schools treat the students. The honest person (me) was harrassed for helping to capture a pervert, and the criminal was released and allowed to be a repeat offender without ANY RECORD OF HIS SICK CRIMES!! Was this just a "bad school"? NO. WHY? A SIMILAR THING HAPPENED IN THE HIGH SCHOOL THAT I ATTENDED. The criminal was treated as a "great guy" and the kid who helped school authorities was POOPED ON by the same school officials!! SCHOOLS IN ILLINOIS ENJOY THIS TYPE OF SOCIETAL AND PYSCHOLOGICAL ABUSE OF THEIR STUDENTS!! IT IS WIDESPREAD!!!

The political hatred and polarized comments that appear on this blog as well as the delusional cleverness of the right-wing ideologists/apologists(the Ronald Reagan "you fell into my trap" Karl Rove rhetoric) regarding these university and high school (Columbine)killings are symptomatic of where conservative America positions itself politically in many ways for the upcoming presidential elections.

America has fallen so far to the right that any sort of moderate,centrist (even someone as sensible as John McCain or Barack Obama) and reasonable ideas are attacked with such vitriolic,and idiotic argument that all sense of reason is quickly extinguished.

I'm certain that those who opposed Hitler in the late thirties were aware of the identical situation.

The fundamental structure of our educational hierarchy(including its emphasis on business and greed)with its empahsis on goals, learning objectives, testing, regimented, repressive, oppresive curriculum and mission statements do nothing but contribute to the enraged reactions of both its educated, sensitive and intelligent young Americans, but also so very much to its alienated and desensitized others.

Osama Obama isn't being politically correct and is downright insensitive in describing someone with a mental illness as a "madman".

The Senator is also talking out of both sides of his mouth as evidenced by the following two paragraphs taken from the story;

Obama said he believes in the Second Amendment, but that there is plenty of room for added gun regulations.

Mentioning his home city, Obama said local entities should also have the ability to have their own more strict regulations.

You either support the second amendment or you don't. It's as simple as that, unless you're a politician! Rather than restrict my ability to own fireams, why don't you work harder to keep savage negro beasts off the street? Maybe then there would be less need for firearms.

Senator Obama, you are a fraud. A sham foisted on the American public by way of a slick marketing campaign. To turn a phrase from George W's detractors, you're all suit, no substance!

Posted by: Charles P | February 15, 2008 9:39 PM
"The political hatred and polarized comments that appear on this blog ... attacked with such vitriolic,and idiotic..."
Congratulations! I don't think I've seen very many people say 'the right sucks' using as many words as you. "...full of sound and fury signifying nothing..." pretty much describes it.

Question re:
Conceal carry laws & Gun Control.

Dear Sen. Obama,

I have been a loyal Democrat , I am African American, a father of 3 and a victim of an arm robbery in which I was blessed to have escaped alive. I know several individuals that were not as fortunate.

I am currently legally licenced to carry a conceal weapon. I work and travel in a high crime area. I have never been convicted of a felony and have cleared an extensive background check and have been fingered printed which is on file with my state and the FBI.

In lieu of all the school shootings in the news lately, which by the way is nothing new in the African American community, I heard on CNN, that you are against the law bidding citizen to have the right to lawful carry except for law enforcement and retired police officers? Which scares the Hell out of me when it comes to my support of any Democrat for president. I cannot for the life of me understand, while you seek to make it illegal for me to protect myself, and seek to make me a criminal if I am found to be in a situation to do so. How is this going to curve school shootings and violence in our communities? Last time I check, if you are a convicted felon you cannot qualify to get a conceal carry permit or own a gun. NEWS FLASH! THEY GET & CARRY GUNS ANYWAY! So how is it, by making it illegal by federal mandate, to protect myself and love ones and by putting me in jail if I do so, will it curve violent crime?

The problem is not myself or individuals like myself. However the well publicized shootings did not involve law abiding citizens with conceal carry permits. However there are tons of stats in which law abiding citizens who are allowed to carry have saved lives.

I really like to know your position on this matter. It's not a matter of racial pride, it's a matter of life, death and my personal liberty.


Senator Obama's commments were right on target! This country needs GUN CONTROL!!
This is not the wild wild west!! We no longer need a ready militia. And until we enact reasonable gun control laws like those in Canada, these senseless acts of violence will be an everyday occurrence in our schools, universities, banks, hospitals, etc. So unless Americans wake up and realize the need for Gun Control, we better be prepared to attend school, see our doctors, and visit the bank via the internet; because otherwise we will always be vulnerable.

What good would micro stamping do in this case? Nothing. There are ways around micro stamping - use a revolver - that way no casings will be expended from the firearm, or on a semi-automatic you can install brass catchers, or the criminal will just file the serial numbers off of the casing or if the gun is equipped with a serial number that it can stamp on the casing as it is fired - all you have to do is file that down with simple household tools. Serializing will just add more exspense to the city budgets to track all this useless information that will never be used.
Second - The young man purchased the firearms legally and he had a card issued by the State of Illinois. He purchased them several weeks ago. A longer waiting period is not going to help either.
To call him a gang banger or a madman is ridiculous.
If he has a mental medical history and was certified by doctors that he has mental roplems than the doctors should have notified the state and he would not have been able to purchase the firemarms.
The right to bear arms is a constitutional right drawn up by our forefathers to prevent any type of takeover enemies of this country - foreign or domestic. An armed citizen keeps the governemt in check. If we give up our rights we will be a police state - you will end up not having any rights - without the second you will not have the first.
In Africa - they have mass murders committed with machetes - so what then we be ban every knife, cleaver, and hatchet?
We need to enforce the laws already in place and stop having the crooked lawyers or judges let the crooks off with as slap on the wrist. Look at the drunk driving laws - how amny time do you read about a drunk driver who killed someone and has a history of DUI but yet the tricky lawyer got him off again?
Criminals do not go into a legitamate gun dealer and buy their firearms - they will either steal them buy them on the black market, or go to a pawn shop. Also Suing the gun manufacture is a ridiculuos idea - then if a drunk driver kills a family memeber than you should sue the company that made the alcoholic beverage, the party store he bought it from, the distributor who sold it to the party store and also sue the automaker - wake up people -
I think the gunmanufacturs should stop selling their firearms in the states that have micro stamping or any other useless gun laws that infringe on the law abiding citizens right.
As for Obama - well - he'll never be President

After reading the rude and stupid comments of many comments on this blog the words of H.L. Mencken ring loud and clear - "No one ever went broke underestimating the ignorance of the American public"...

There you have it.

It has always been curious to me how liberals think the NRA is some evil corporation put up by gun merchants and manufacturers. It's millions of members are regular people who believe the Constitution means what it says, that the peoples' rights shall not be infringed. Living life without taking responsibility for your own safety is very foolish. FACT: the supreme court says you have no right to police protection. If you call 911 and no one comes, tough. You have no legal recourse.

To Lynch M All,
Why must you interject racial hatred into the subject? What happened at UIN is not about race, and those "savage negro beasts" you refer to are not typically walking onto college campuses and killing students in mass numbers. The American public has to make the difficult decision, the right decision, that only reasonable Gun Control laws will protect our children. Unless we limit access to guns, our institutions of higher learning will become open season. And, if our students cannot feel safe and secure in these institutions, academia as we know it will be forever lost; as will America herself.

Additionally, I really don't think the Chicago tribune should have posted your comment, as it could be construed as offensive to African Americans

To Lynch M All,
Why must you interject racial hatred into the subject? What happened at UIN is not about race, and those "savage negro beasts" you refer to are not typically walking onto college campuses and killing students in mass numbers. The American public has to make the difficult decision, the right decision, that only reasonable Gun Control laws will protect our children. Unless we limit access to guns, our institutions of higher learning will become open season. And, if our students cannot feel safe and secure in these institutions, academia as we know it will be forever lost; as will America herself.

Additionally, I really don't think the Chicago tribune should have posted your comment, as it could be construed as offensive to African Americans

Why is everyone so damn selfish??? I understand that he is the Senator of Illinois, but to expect him to leave the campaign trail to pacify your ass is insane!!! He has acknowleged the fact and offered his sympathy, what more do you want???

Showing support is the right action. Blathering on about politics is not appropriate at this time. The media has barely collected the facts, and he is already making this a political event. It is simply disgusting to me. A great tragedy occured yesterday. Treat it as such, not just another statistic.

Sen. Obama also demonstrated how little he knows about gun control. Microstamping is not a "common sense" regulation. Gun owners don't support it because it makes guns and ammo expensive and DOES NOTHING to solve crime that can't be done already...when it even works.

While it may be worthwhile to wonder about how he got his guns and about how gun laws should be, I'm wondering why he was off his meds. Did he just stop taking them, or wasn't he able to afford them? It might be the high cost of his meds kept him from having them to take.

I'm from IL (and a graduate of NIU), which has some of the most restrictive gun controls in the U.S. These laws do nothing and Obama should be ashamed of himself to put his political agenda of gun banning on a day this tragedy happened.

The reality is, if teachers and other trained citizens were armed, or even if they simply had the option it would make these people think twice. If they still decided to pull something like this, it would be good to have a citizen or teacher there to put the criminal down before they can inflict the misery this criminal did.

Some of you folks are completely misguided, what Obama has stated in the past is that he wants a complete ban on all semi auto firearms, that’s not reasonable! Semi autos make up roughly 40 percent of all firearms owned. That doesn’t sound like someone that wants common sense legislation, that sounds like someone that is trying to ban nearly half the guns in this country.
Micro stamping is a ploy, it involves the manufacturer retooling their production equipment, which is costly. This cost will be passed on to the consumer making firearms even more difficult to obtain for law abiding working Americans, while all the criminal has to do is take a file to the micro stamp. So micro stamping will do nothing to help law enforcement track the weapon used, it's sole purpose is to make it more expensive for the manufacturer & the law abiding gun owner. Drug dealers making a thousand dollars a night & buying their guns on the street aren’t effected by this, working people wanting a means to defend their family are. Sometimes I wonder if Sarah Brady & the likes of Barack Obama aren’t actually trying to help the criminals.

Equating gun restrictions with violence prevention is loonacy. Half of Africa prooves this on a daily basis with blood stained machetes. And if you want to Africanize America,gun bans can only expedite the process by increasing the pool of victims for the swarms of murderous, welfare raised crackhead thugs presently metastasizing throughout the US from the cities they've already reduced to third world standards.

So what do you halfwit knee jerk gun haters want to do? Put numbers on bullets that can easily be extracted from their cases,denumbered and replaced? Brilliant! Likewise with microstamping devices. And likewise with every one of your schemes that can only translate into few to no firearms in responsible, law abiding hands. A significant amount of gun violence in this country is commited by people who have already been convicted of crimes that should have put them away for good. A very few apparently normal people do bad things with guns even while widespread gun ownership statistically favors tranquility. By gun banner logic, penicillin which occasionally causes severe and even fatal reactions, should be banned!

Be careful of the wolf in sheep's clothing. I vote for no one who shows the inability to read. Although Obama went to Harvard, and is a lawyer, he obviously cannot or does not read and understand the constitution. Notice how when he talks about the second amendment he is very cryptic with his statements and always leaves things out. Eg: I have no problem with hunters (what about self-defense?), or bear arms (what about keep?. I take solace in the fact, that although we no longer have any true statesman running for high office, regardless of who wins the election, there are about 150 million people like myself who exercise their unalienable right to defend oneself, and family, regardless of what any politician, legislature, congress, or supreme court says!

The point of the second amendment is not to ensure the right to hunt ducks or deeer, it was made to ensure our first right, our first amendment. Without the teeth of the second amendment provided by private gun ownership of the citizenry, the government can do what they want unchecked. Our gov't is made on a system of checks and balances so that one branch cannot overpower another branch. So it is with the people of America and the govt' of America. It also astonishes me that people would think that 9 out of 10 amendments of the Constitution are individual rights except for the 2nd Amendment which magically was crafted as a collective right and not an individual right.

Micro stamp bullets? Yeah that is really going to help prevent a suicidal maniac from going on a shooting spree. Obama is an idiot. We need to give people the means of self-defense on campus. How comes he didn't make any mention of this commonsense procedure? Shooting sprees happen on campuses that are gun free zones. They don't happen on campuses that allow conceal carry of firearms. When are people going to wake up?!

"I say hold the gun manufacturers, gun sellers and pharms accountable. Things would change real quick."

Accountable for what? Another's actions? Where would frivolous lawsuits stop? A hardware store owner should go to prison because he sold someone a piece of black pipe that was used for a pipe bomb? Come on.

To all the anti-gun individuals, lets talk "common sense": Evil people commit evil acts and it doesn't matter if they have a gun, knife, ballbat or automobile. Go after the individual committing the act, not the tool they use. Great Britian outlawed firearms and now their talking about restricting knives with points because of the increase in stabbings. Humans are a very inventive creature and if they wish to do harm they will find a way. I remember hearing about criminals in New York making and using "zip guns" when they couldn't get their hands on a real guns back in the 60's & 70's. No way to trace those. Police already can match the bullet to the rifling in a particular firearm but to match the bullet to the casing would be impracticle. If you were going to commit a crime and you knew that the gun you were using was stamping the casing, you would probably make sure that you left no casings behind or you drop one that was fired from a different gun. If in the case of this gunman and most of the current shooters, you didn't plan on living after your rampage, you aren't going to worry that the police might be able to trace the bullets to the gun you use. It is a needless and easily defeated piece of feel good legislation. We need to start looking at what is causing the problem of extreme violence in our society and deal with that. Treat the problem not the symptom. More people are killed by automobiles each year than are killed by firearms but nobody is calling for a ban on cars. Firearms are already the most regulated industry in the country and creating new legislation while not enforcing what is on the books now does nothing to solve the problem. It does create a burden on law abiding citizens who use a firearm for sport or self defense but does nothing to hinder a criminal in obtaining one. You can ban everything that could possibly be used for a weapon and criminals will still find a way to prey on their intended victims. You cannot legislate morality.

its a tragic,that the person that killed these people,took away there lives as well as his own,as a person that takes meds on a daily basses,knows how important these meds are to live by,if only somehow this could have been pervented ?mental health is one of the most importat issues in everbodys life ,we all know someone that this effects ,i hope that this will be the end of the shootings,let there be peace,and love>for all the world?phil schuman.


All certified and amateur psychoanalysts please report to the morgue. Also anyone who can resurrect the dead should report immediately too.

All of the antigun liberals want to get to the bottom of this "tragedy" AND they also are searching for a miracle genius cure to prevent it from re-occuring in the future.

[Have any of you antigun, or anti weapon nutjobs invented a spray to restore sanity to the mentally disturbed ?] This was not my idea.

P.S. If any of you are contemplating a ban on mentally ill people then do not report to the morgue; we need you to report to the insane asylum.

Too bad Obama didn't attend NIU; maybe he would have learned that criminals favor gun controls too. African/American Women are the worst victims of gun controls.

NRA, GOA and ISRA member

I'm really concerned with the fact that people keep equating "on medication" with "mental problems". For many people, being on medication is what KEEPS them from having mental problems. Assuming that he was on some type of antidepressant, the issue with the shooter wasn't that he was on was that he had GONE OFF of it. Had he still been on his medication, he might not have done this.

I'm not sure Obama's coming "home" would offer answers to the NIU shootings. We have to make sure we don't make guns nor mental illness a witch hunt. As a person with friends who are on meds, I can't see making them the cause, alone. Guns need control, more of it. And, the people I know, who are on meds are going to be afraid to take them and to be open about it if we make them the hunted. Everyone of my friends who take their meds are assets to the community. Everyone of my friends who is worried about too much gun control are worried about themselves. Gun control would have prevented this kid from having the guns and given the community a longer time to help him back on track. His strange behavior would have forced his loved ones to take action. He belonged in treatment not running around with a gun.

If Obama can't understand that simple phrase, one has to wonder if he can understand any other part of the Bill of Rights. Wake up Sheeple!

Thank you Emily (2/15 at 2pm) for your post.

Taking rights away from people on "psych meds" is unethical and unconstitutional. It also will keep people from seeking the help they need.

I don't have a solution to mass murders. All I know is that semi-automatic guns are the only arms that can kill so many innocents so quickly. In Japan, it is illegal to carry guns--they worry about stabbings. The police don't even carry guns. To me, as a college grad student, that seems safer.

Are you serious about the 2nd Amendment "right to bear arms" applying to today's society? Why do you PERSONALLY need to bear arms? And, what's up with someone calling an Obama supporter a "sub-prime freak"...seriously?! The people who think they need to bear arms need to be put away. Barack is smarter than every single person who commented on this article (myself included) so the haters in the crowd need to quit bashing him, stop thinking about themselves only (we are a large country with a lot of problems) and get on board with what is good for the whole...not the half...not the quarter...not the ONE who wants to shoot ducks.

Posted by: ECB | February 15, 2008 9:33 PM

How does the koolaid taste. You are the blind leading the blind.

This issue will be resolved once and for all on Mar 18 when the Supreme court decides the 2nd amendment is an individual right and overturns the DC gun Ban

Just ban guns! It's that simple. We are the only country in the world that make owning a gun legally.
Let people rent guns if they want to go hunting.

It is a sad shame this tradgedy comes again. This person fell through the system and was able to posess a FOID card to go and purchase a gun. He was supposedly mentally ill? Who isn't? So how did he get a FOID card? Answer; Medical Privacy Act! No one could have access to his records, until the law takes effect. This is what the new NICS law is for. Which was backed by the NRA. It allows a full background check on people wanting to own a gun,including mental issues. Obama and the "rights grabbers" are mostly to blame for this tragedy. New gun laws will not and would not have prevented this shooting. We are not allowed to discipline our children and we are not held accountable for our actions. It saddens me to see educated and uneducated folks alike miss the point. Hug your children TEACH them right from wrong. SPEND time with them. RAISE them to be respectful towards others. As a gun owner, a free citizen of the USA, and a firm believer in the 2nd ammendment and all the rest of the Constitution my heart pours out to the families of the victims. I can not imagine what you are feeling. However the answer isn't taking guns out of the hands of innocent, law abiding people. That is the scapegoat answer, blame the gun not the owner. It is not the gun's fault it does not have to capacity to think or make a decision. The blame is on those who think we need to keep writing new and rediculous laws to to us safe from each other, but when it comes to carring out the punishment we stand there and boo hoo the we are being to harsh on the criminal, WAKE up people they are criminals no matter what their excuse. PUNISH THEM accordingly. This is the deterent to crime.(strictly my opinion) However may God Bless and Comfort the families of the victims, and they were victims unable to defend themselves in a free country.

Get your perspective on People. The greatist one-stop source for FACTUAL UNBIASED information in our lives concerning the Second Amendment can be found in the SCOTUS briefs for DC vs. Heller. Refute ANY liberal argument in seconds with this gold mine of concise and well cited information.

To ECB: In response to your second question, we're talking about a Bill of Rights, not a Bill of Needs. If you believe that our RIGHTS under the Second Amendment should be repealed, then perhaps you won't object to our rights under the First, Fourth, Fifth and Sixth Amendments, being repealed as well. In fact, based on your logic, it would seem that our entire Bill of Rights should not be "applying to today's society" and should be repealed. I think not.

I find it interesteing that the NRA is blamed for all the gun crimes in America. The NRA is a pro-gun organization backed by law abiding citizens. This killed was not a NRA member, they respect human life. One other statement God, the Bible and prayer were expelled from our Govt. seems to be working...the morality of govt. schools is close to non-existent. But isn't it interested No God for our Schools, But YES to God in our prisons....

I find it interesting that there are so many that feel it is fine to let everyone have and carry a gun, or at least everyone that meets up to their level of not being a criminal or not having a mental health problem. 1)Many people become a criminal for the 1st time by use of a gun. 2) Are we going to give up all of our privacy to health records to make sure that we are able to have a gun. If that is the case I think we should allow officials to also come into our homes or bug our phone lines to make sure that we would qualify as well.
I would rather give up a gun (if I had one) than give up my privacy, which is also insured in our constitutional rights!

everyone seems to remember the right to privacy and the problem of data bases on mental health that would violate federal HIPPA Laws. I'm not defending the shooter just acknowleging that the knee jerk reaction to this is to trample everyones rights and not just the 2nd amendment bleeding heart liberals scream about violating terrorists rights by listening to terrorists on the phone but want to violate everyone else's rights to privacy.

Its amazing that we are supposed to be tolerant of other peoples views, IE gays, athiests, anti gunners and liberal progressives but they cannot be tolerant of other views that differ from their own

First off to all you idiots out there they say "you don't need a handgun for hunting" when will you all learn that IT HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH HUNTING! I own lots of handguns and I target shoot a lot and also CCW. I don't hunt, never have never will. I have handguns so when someone trys to rob, steal or hurt my family I will dispatch them to hell.

Micro stamping ammo is the dumbest thing out of Handgun controls mouth. If I am a criminal intent on doing a crime I will find ammo for my guns that does not have micro stamping on it. Ammo can be stolen as well, are you going to lock someone up because they found ammo on the scene that was sold to them. Kind of like if a thug steals your car and kills someone are you going to lock up the owner? What about revolvers that don't leave cases behind?

Now lets take away guns what about knives? Did anyone hear about the nutjob that killed the doc with the meat cleaver last week? Lets ban meat cleavers as well. Why didn't he get a background check before buying the meat clever?

Now all of you anti-gun morons that think you will save the world by passing more gun laws, you are better off just going about your business eating free range chickens and holding hands and singing Kum-by-ahh. You stay away from my and my business and won't steal you dope stash!

Gun free zones create a safe haven for those who are determined to commit murder. Gun laws enacted by countries and U.S. municipalities like D.C. and the U.K. allow the thugs to run rampant while the helpless citzenry are victimized time and time again. Since the D.C. gun ban, violent crime escalated by over 200%, in the U.K. violent crime has also steadily increaed under their draconian gun laws. Same for Australia. You cannot count on the "government" and police to take care of you and your family, and the authorities most often show up well after the crime has been committed. It has also been determined by our U.S. Supreme Court that the police have no legal obligation to protect any one individual - do you get that? I am a woman and I carry at all times and I will do so whether we have "gun law" or not as I know the criminals care not one whit about "gun free zones."

After the NIU shooting or any tragedy, the last thing we need to do as Americans is engage in hateful verbal attacks.

Why is everyone so angry? Why is everyone trying to point the finger? Because the truth is too frightening: there is no solution to this.

Perhaps improved gun controls, reduced media coverage of such killers, etc., MIGHT help reduce such incidents. But the truth is, no one has any solutions.

We live in an increasingly disconnected, isolated society. How many of us know every single person in our town, or even our neighborhood anymore? We have all kinds of technological advances, and we've made social progress (civil rights laws) but we're less connected to local communities, families, neighbors, religious institutions that do not polarize, and people in general.

So, now when something goes wrong, people are less apt to notice (or to say anything, even if say, they notice someone's been missing from worship for a month). When something goes wrong, neighbors,relatives, co-workers, friends and mentors often aren't there to make a difference.

Somehow, in our world today, it's acceptable and applauded to be isolated and alone. Before such tragedies, most people are busy trying to mind their own business. It's often every person (and what belongs to them, e.g., their children, business, home, country, etc.)for themslves.

After such acts of terrorism (for what is this but another form of suicide bombing?), most people are trying to assign blame. The thought of us not being able to control some things as individuals is anathema. We are afraid. And fear is not pretty.

Let's instead try to work on what connects us as Americans. If you see someone today you don't know -- smile. If you haven't heard from someone in a while & you're worried about them, call/email/visit them.

There's no easy solution to any of this, but it wouldn't hurt for the general population to care more about people outside themselves.

So we want to outlaw guns. Hmm, we have outlawed some drugs. That works well so why not outlaw the guns too.

Serialized bullets. I bet that would work just as well as illegal drugs and illegal guns. We would be living in paradise after that.

No, wait a minute. Criminals get drugs anyway. They also get guns. I bet they would be able to find unserialized bullets, or better yet, they would steal your bullets and send you off to prison.

This is a tough decision. Give up being able to protect my self and family or. . . turn my safety over to the criminals to decide my fate.

Doesn't anyone else find it interesting that those who are TRAINING the people who are working in the field to recognize and treat mental illness cannot even recognize it THEMSELVES!

Such is the state of social services today. The people who are the "experts" are worse off than the clients or "patients" they're supposed to be treating.

Since a majority of social service agencies are REALLY only interested in getting more government money (and will work their "numbers" to "prove" that they are helping people, just to get more money), and they're not interested in really HELPING people, how about pulling all government funding to the agencies? If they want to get money, force them to actually DO something.

everybody needs to remember the church shooting in Colorado ,1 lady with a CCWP,A HANDGUN AND TRAINING stopped a massacre that could have been far larger than NIU,but here we can't have a CCWP,but need more gun laws,please tell me what new law would stop a person that wants to kill and then kill themselves?I believe we need to take a serious look at how we have laws that turns everyone into a victim and try something new,gun free zones{gun free state} isn't working anymore

Hey Greg....where would you have committed the killer? Your hero Reagan closed all the mental hospitals...or did you forget that?

What is wrong with you people? When a tragedy like this happens in our communities, our schools, our neighborhoods we fail as a society. We have become too ignorant of our neighbors, too self-absorbed, too distant from our familites, and too crazed with which politcal party is glorified. The adage, "United we stand, divided we fall" couldnt be used at a more appropiate time. Please don't mock the victims lives by trying to make a weak connection to politcal movements. Our issues run much deeper. Ultimately, the unwritten laws of the people and the community dictate the lives we live.

This is a comment to senator mccarthy (republican logic)... Wire tap all college students phones? Anyone who opposes this in against America. No anyone that wants every phone wire tapped is against America. The funniest part about your post is imagining you typing it in all matter-of-factly.

Barack Obama is a man with an agenda. Winning the Presidency. What do you want him to do? Go back to Illinois and (?) The damage has been done. Barack needs to focus on getting into office which is where he can make changes that will prevent these types of shootings.

obama is a feel good idiot. he may be smart as not saying why we sould vote for his change back to democratic advancing socialism. if he really felt sorry for the people of illinois he would go to another state. oh, wait, he spends more time away from the state than he does in the state. he is another fascist wanting to destroy the usa. the real crime is that there wasnt anybody there to stop the shooter instantly. a 3-5 second draw vs a 3minute response time, and as a cop i know that was damned fast, would have saved countless lives. the only way to truly stop these copycats is to arm the populace. and dont give me this dodge city crap, the stats dont bear it out you guyana grape koolaid drinking buffoons.

i think what Lynch M All said is disgusting. and I know many more people would agree with me. we would do better to understand the situations and circumstances of inner city teens than to vilify them. we are looking for a reason and motive behind these school shootings. we should also be asking these questions about what goes on in the inner city. and people, thankfully, are.

lynching is a disgusting act on several levels. so i do not take what you said lightly.

I think Obama did an excellent job of responding to the crisis. He made it clear (for you right-wing nutjobs)that the solution to such a problem was not to ban guns entirely. At the same time, he also made it clear (for you left-wing nutjobs)that the US stll has a long way to go in passing gun regulations that prevent things like this from ever happening again. As a strong supporter of Obama, I think that his response proves his commitment to moderate political views.
At the same time, as a citizen of Illinois and one of Mr. Obama's constituents, I firmly believe that now is the time to pass more strict gun laws. The second ammendment guarantees the right of citizens to form militias. It never gives individuals the right to carry guns. To argue that restricting gun ownership threatens our inalienable rights is absurd. It was never a right to begin with. It was simply interpreted as such. In the past, when guns were less effective, individual gun ownership wasn't such a big deal. Now, a single automatic weapon could kill dozens in a matter of minutes. Strict gun laws are a good start. At the very least, we should ensure that those with mental disorders cannot buy multiple pistols and a shotgun. Guns exist for one purpose: to kill. How many more disasters do we need to suffer through to prove that point?

I know I can't even begin to imagine the pain of the families of these poor children who were brutally murdered. I am so sorry to hear about this event and I have the deepest sympathy for all of the victims and their families. Including the shooter and his.

Something else I can't even begin to imagine is what led this promising young student, who was by all reports a nice guy, to commit this horrific act. How much pain and confusion did he endure? This "madman" had a family, he had friends, he had a community around him. Instead of making snap judgments about gun control and mental illness, I beg you to stop for a minute and think about what you are doing for the people around you. How do you treat other people, especially the ones that are hard to love? One thing that seems to be a connection among many of these murderers is having been bullied at some point in their lives.

This behavior does not erupt solely from an organic disorder in the brain. It does not come out of nowhere.

Please, please, stop judging for a minute and use that time to think about how you treat the people you know and don't know, and how you are teaching your children to treat others.

God help the families of all of these victims. I am not defending what this young man did. I am trying to point out that his actions, random as they seem, did not come from nowhere, and I think there is something we can do as fellow humans that does not involve the Constitution or any courtroom. We can take some time to consider how our words and actions affect other people.

If you will use whatever is occupying the space between your ears you will realize that privacy tends to disappear when people demand security from government. This is an historical norm!
Are you really so chalanged as to suggest that guns cause people to become criminals? I must have fired more than a million rounds over the past 50 years and I still haven't snorted any coke like "no gun" Obama did before someone told on him.

Over the last few days, regardig FISA and the "Protect America Act", all I hear from the right is, "If your not doing anything wrong, then why should you care if the gov monitors your calls?"

O.K., fine, but if you don't have a criminal record, then why do you insist on not wanting background checks to buy a gun?

Same thing. Sound like a sensible compromise to me. Have your wire tapping, and we get to check backgrounds to purchase a gun.

I'm not an Obama fan but stricter laws would restrict these type of killings. There are few hunters or owners who care about a background check. Why, because they are not afraid of the check but are afraid of getting shot by a crazy out in the field.

Hey Obama, another "gun-free zone" failure. Illinois should pass concealed carry of firearms so a law-abiding Citizen(s) at the scene have the means to take out the criminal before twenty people get shot. It worked in Colorado at the church recently. When seconds count, the Police are only minutes away.

If all of those who are casting stones and blaming others, as most of these comments show, would do something themselves,perhaps positive changes in their homes and communtities would occur. If you're not a part of the solution, you're part of the problem. So...grow up and stop blaming others!

I don't understand why people feel college campuses shouldn't be anything other than microcosms of our society. Most young people who are NOT in college face much more violent settings, and yet for some reason college students are seen as being exempt. Why the special consideration for college students, when young people across the same age spectrum face a much higher statistical likelihood of violence?

If Osama wants MORE gun control, then tell him to use TWO hands!

"I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend." --- J.R.R.Tolkien, The Two Towers

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. ... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." (Thomas Jefferson, quoting Cesare Beccaria's On Crime And Punishment.)

"Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence. From the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurrences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable...The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." (George Washington)

"Despite a long history of such failed attempts, however, many, people persist in believing the police are obligated to protect them, attempt to recover when no protection was forthcoming, and are emotionally demoralized when the recovery fails. Legal annals abound with such cases. Warren v. District of Columbia is one of the leading cases of this type. Two women were upstairs in a townhouse when they heard their roommate, a third woman, being attacked downstairs by intruders. They phoned the police several times and were assured that officers were on the way. After about 30 minutes, when their roommate's screams had stopped, they assumed the police had finally arrived. When the two women went downstairs they saw that in fact the police never came, but the intruders were still there. As the Warren court graphically states in the opinion: "For the next fourteen hours the women were held captive, raped, robbed, beaten, forced to commit sexual acts upon each other, and made to submit to the sexual demands of their attackers." The three women sued the District of Columbia for failing to protect them, but D.C.'s highest court exonerated the District and its police, saying that it is a "fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen." (Quoted from Peter Kasler, RBKA website)

I suggest three things for the liberals whose only solution is "gun control." One, read and re-read the quotes above. Two, read and re-read Mr. Kasler's analysis. Three, go to the RBKA website and read his entire point-by-point analysis.

If Illinois law had mandated reporting (forget privacy - this is about public protection) mentally ill people AND treatment, this would not have happened.

And, remember that another VA school prevented a similar situation BECAUSE STUDENTS WHO WERE ARMED TOOK DOWN THE ASSAILANT!

The politicians and everyone else should realize that no legislation or security is sufficient to stop a suicidal lunatic. If it wasn't a gun, it could have been a bomb, poison or a meat clever. Making it difficult for law abiding citizens to get weapons has nothing to do with this. if everyone that sees a psychiatrist is forbidden from possessing weapons, people will stop seeking mental health care. Where do you draw the line? Should the people that seek grief counseling be considered mentally ill? These type of incidents are unforeseeable tragedies. Perhaps it would be better to allow law abiding citizens to carry a weapon for self defense, after an appropriate training class. Gun safety and the effects of gun violence should be taught to all students at an early age. It serves to remove the curiosity and fascination with firearms. I grew up in a home where my father was a police officer. He taught us gun safety at an early age. We weren't the least bit interested after that. Children now grow up in a society that tells them that weapons are evil. Like anything else, some may want to satisfy their curiosity. Remove that and make it a mandatory curriculum and I'll bet that this current "epidemic" will be controlled.

The law for microstamping passed in California but is not yet implemented, so there is no real world experience of how well it works. It requires guns to stamp a ID on each casing fired. I believe the purpose is not to catch criminals, but to make it more expensive and difficult for law abiding honest citizens to have a gun. Senator Obama is showing his true colors in this statement, he is a gun banner. If microstamping was enacted, and actually worked, it would not have stopped this criminal at NIU.

Those who are mentally ill and evaluated as a danger to themself or others SHOULD BE IN PRISON. Just like criminals with 3 violent felony convictions. We need 3-STRIKES-AND-YOU'RE-OUT forcing lifetime no-parole sentences for these criminals and the mentally ill.

Prison is to punish criminals and protect society from them.

Mentally ill found to be a danger to themself or others could get other weapons, AKA box cutters (911), etc. The mentally ill found to be danger to society should also be in prison.

Reading these comments, all I keep thinking is, "The angry and illiterate folks are the same ones who want unrestricted access to firearms."

It's no wonder that civilized folk in other nations have the impression that Americans are both crass and dangerous. God help this country.


Posted by: Virgil | February 16, 2008 12:09 PM

Nice try, but no cigar. The proposal that Obama suggested, had it passed in Illinois or the U.S. in general, would not have stopped the shooting. Micro-tracing can only help in discovering the source of the weapon in order to identify the shooter. It's useless where, as here, the shooter's identity is known. It is also useless if the firearm is a revolver (because revolvers don't eject shell casings). As such, Obama’s proposal was as futile as beating at the air.

A better proposal would be to either remove the "gun-free" designation from schools or arm and train campus police to use firearms. Maybe it hasn't dawned on some people that schools have been targeted precisely because students and teachers have been made vulnerable due to the “gun-free-zone” designation. Nut case killers reckon they have a greater chance at success with little or no resistance available. So, if one removes the perception of vulnerability from the location, one very well might see fewer attacks.

I realize some will say that this isn’t the wild west. I say, “guess again.” If you really think we, as a society, are civilized enough to attain peace through that much disarmament, you are wrong. History has already proven you wrong. Some of the most violent places in this country (e.g. Washington D.C., St. Louis, Camden & Detroit) are violent precisely because innocent civilians do heed gun regulations and violent criminals do not. Indeed, criminals and nut-jobs take advantage of the law abiding citizens who do obey these laws because those laws substantially reduce the instances of lawful firearm possession for self-defense.

What criminals fear is the idea that someone might shoot back. Nut-cases who seek their 15 minutes of fame in a controlled environment fear being thwarted. These are a couple of reasons why we give firearms to police. Thus, a more ubiquitous, lawful threat to violent crime – by at least adding armed police - would be a big plus.

I think the gun manufacturers should stop selling their firearms in the states that have micro stamping or any other useless gun laws that infringe on the law abiding citizens right.


Posted by: Michigan Patriot | February 15, 2008 11:01 PM

They just might do that. Many gun manufacturers have indicated they will not comply with the micro-stamping/micro-tracing laws - because they cannot be implemented in either a practical or cost effective manner. That means, after a certain period of time, there will be no new semi-automatic firearms sold in California unless the law is changed.

If Obama thinks his proposals for gun control are common sense then he is just proving he has none! Gun control is not the answer! In fact, this is another case where a concealed-carry weapon holder at the scene might have reduced the horror! Concealed-carry holders in 40 "shall issue" states have proven their reliability and lawfullness over many years. Illinois is not one of the 40!

There have been several incidents fairly recently where concealed carry weaponholders have limited the amount of harm caused by rampaging lunatics. Recently a lunatic in a church was stopped by a church member with a concealed carry weapon before the lunatic could kill more people than he already had (which he was well equipped to do). There is the case where two armed citizens apprehended a gunman (preventing his escape) at the Appalachia (sp?) School of Law after retrieving their guns from their cars. There was another incident where an off-duty cop stopped a shooter in a mall. If there had been a concealed carry holder at Virginia tech in one of those classes (teacher or student), odds were good that the number of persons killed would have been significantly fewer! "what if" tales of CCW holders shooting the wrong person, or cops accidently shooting a CCW holder simply haven't happened! If a 21+ year old student (MANY students are older - ex: military vets, adults pursuing more education, etc.) has demonstrated that they have what it takes to get a concealed carry permit for off campus, then they have demonstrated that they can just as reasonably be trusted to carry a concealed weapon on campus! Utah schools were forced to allow this - Number of weapons incidents in Utah with concealed carry holders on campus: zero!

The notion that guards and metal detectors in universities is the answer is false. The guards will be the first targets as the shooter walks through the detectors. Further there are far more concealed carry permit holders in some states (incidently with much lower crime rates than Illinois or D.C.) and for no cost to the system. Psychos will think twice about using students for target practice if they know some students (and teachers) will be armed but he can't tell who. Remember - 40 states already have a superb track record with concealed carry weapon holders over many years and all the straw man "what if" scenarios proposed by the anti-gun crowd never happened!

Common sense regulation? The common thread in school shootings is "mental illness" and psychoactive drugs unnecessarily prescribed to problem children who just need a good spanking. But of course that's not PC, so teachers just want to drug the kids into compliance. You can't impose common sense with laws.

“Reading these comments, all I keep thinking is, ‘The angry and illiterate folks are the same ones who want unrestricted access to firearms.’"


Posted by: SGP | February 16, 2008 4:03 PM

That’s because you’ve been taken in by the pseudo-liberal pabulum without subjecting it to a sufficient level of rational scrutiny yourself.

I am neither angry nor illiterate. I simply cannot accept (as easily as you have) the proposition that I must remain unarmed and unable to protect myself against violent criminals because the police can’t protect me either. If you want to turn yourself and your family members into victims, go right ahead. It’s not my place to tell you how to order your life. But I refuse to follow, lemming like, in your footsteps.

Any candidate who takes a step forward to speak out for gun control gets my vote.

Gun Free lies and false sense of security

Mall shootings and school shootings, the common thread between all of them is “gun free zones”. Apparently, the only people who follow this are the law-abiding, madmen are not affected and are emboldened by “gun free zones”. Lane Bryant, Virginia Tech, now NIU, and other locations are free for all zones for madmen to shoot fish in the proverbial barrel.

Before there was Virginia Tech there was another college campus in Virginia where a madman tried to do evil deeds he was stopped by a law-abiding citizen with a gun. In Colorado recently, a woman with concealed carry was able to save members of her congregation and stop a gunman armed to the teeth. The media glossed over the fact that a citizen, more over a woman with a concealed carry permit, put down the perpetrator.

The dirty little secret is that those places with the strictest gun control laws are also the most dangerous. “Gun free zones” are a liberal utopian feel good measure that are not gun free and are not safe. If you believe that there is good and evil in the world one should not have to worry about good people with the tools of freedom and protection.

Illinois is only one of two states left in the union without concealed carry and those large cities such as Washington D.C., New York, and Chicago have proven that strict measures do not ensure safety only disarmament of good people. Blood in the streets shouts from those against concealed carry have not come to fruition and the opposite has occurred. Reason not emotion must be used to enact real proven methods to protect the citizenry at large.

I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

Us right wing nuts don't fly off the hanlde we use our brains whereas liberals use emotion. Maybe as an antigunner you would never own or carry a gun but 48 other states have proven that all of society benefits from those good people who are trained and carry guns (criminals think twice about those who may have a concealed carry permit). I would rather the people around me (ie public) and my family were secure than dead.

Il. leaders are not.

The NRA has been pushing for improvement of the NICS system for years to include, outpatent mental health patients. However, the ACLU blocked every type of this action based on privacy.

Face the facts, bad guys don't follow gun laws. There are 'gun free zone' signs all over our university's. Is that an invisible barrier capable of stopping the shootings?

Microstamping can be erased with a 25 cent piece of sandpaper.

Common sense will need to be used. Outlaw the guns and we will be like england in no time.

England and Wales have the highest crime rate among the world's leading economies, according to a new report by the United Nations.

The survey, which is likely to prove embarrassing to David Blunkett, the Home Secretary. shows that people are more likely to be mugged, burgled, robbed or assaulted here than in America, Germany, Russia, South Africa or any other of the world's 20 largest nations. Only the Dominican Republic, New Zealand and Finland have higher crime rates than England and Wales.

We need to enforce the laws that are on the books. Give the felons the 5 year automatic sentence for gun crime, don't plee bargan it away for an easy case. Give the gang bangers the 12 year automatic sentence for gang activity with a weapon. Get the bad guys off the street and keep 'em off.

Beth who posted 2/16 10:14 AM

After ww 2 the US confiscated & destroyed all of Japan's small arms. Now if we were to be conquered by another country and completely disarmed then that scenario may work for us, but I don't want to find out, would you.

Oooh, the Big, Bad NRA. An organization that's been in existence since 1871 (that's 137-years for you educated at the public expense). It would seem that we should have had continuous, multiple murders and slaughters in our various hallowed halls of academe during that period. But strangely, they just started within the last several years.
Perhaps, if you really, really have an urge to place the blame on someone or something rather than the perpetrator, you should look for a more likely scapegoat elsewhere.
Oh, I know, it's always easier for some of you to blame a firearm rather than a person for a hideous crime. After all, If you are successful in banning all firearms, you have nothing to lose. You don't own a gun and wouldn't even dream of touching one! Furthermore, you consider a gun owner a knuckle dragging redneck because, well, just makes you happier to think that you are, uh,...intellectually superior to those,...Neanderthals out there. Why yes, it must grind you that some people are able to take the responsibility of defending themselves seriously enough to purchase a firearm. And perhaps that is the reason you prefer to blame the tragedy at NIU on an inanimate object, rather than the murderer.
There are two legged wolves out there, children, and if you continue to think happy thoughts about how the world should be, rather than recognizing that you alone are responsible for your well-being, you will discover very quickly some day just how the world really is. And that day, all of your warm, fuzzy feelings will be extinguished inside the stomach of one of those wolves.

In Canada before you get a gun, you need to pass a course, have a member of the mounted police come to your house, inspect how you are going to store the gun, see how you are going to keep the gun safe from kids, and see the neighborhood to make sure the gun is not at risk to be stolen etc. After you pass the course and the inspection, the gun is issued. In a recent year, Toronto had 50 gun deaths, while Detroit, a similar sized city, had 900. A trained officer would notice erratic behavior, would notice that the number of weapons to be purchased would be beyond “self protection” and could have voided the sale. Guns are lethal force and should be treated as a responsibility, not someone’s vision of John Wayne macho justice. Further, if anyone thinks someone, who is delusional to the point of going to randomly shooting people without provocation, is making some calculated “risk assessment” as to whether people are “packing” (and, if they were “packing” they would immediately decide to go home), fails to understand that people with active mental illnesses simply wouldn’t care or would be too involved in their delusions to consider any threat to them. Further, if gang bangers are shooting at people, who, like them, have concealed weapons-where is the deterrent of having a concealed gun in that instance? With freedom comes responsibility. You don’t use freedom of speech to yell fire in a crowded movie house, and anyone who is purchasing lethal force should be able to show, to a trained law enforcement agent, how he would be a responsible gun owner and not just show a card, purchase a gun one week and kill people the next. Giving everyone a gun is no guarantee of everyone suddenly becoming responsible gun owners, it just means more chances of a weapon being used. Sorry gun people- making a lecture hall the OK Corral because everyone has a weapon, only insures more shots fired, more people hurt. For my money, if I am sitting next to you great “sharpshooters” and you miss, the gunman will shoot at you and hit me. If trained military personnel get shot by friendly fire, you can’t tell me that some yoyo behind me isn’t going to shoot me in the back while I try to get out. Put the gun away. The only realistic deterrence, in this case, is at the point of sale, not in the campus or the lecture hall.
Dennis K.

I am so sorry that those children were murdered by a madman. A parent’s wish is to die before their children and I can not imagine the sorrow they are going thru, may God place his hand on your shoulders and ease the burden of your hearts. I truly wish someone had been there to prevent it.

Hey all you so called moderates that think we are all angry on the left. First we don't speak for all of us; we are individuals not the toe the commie line of gun control, which is truly people control.
The moderate place is in the middle of the road, that is where you will find the yellow stripes and dead skunks.
The second amendment is about freedom. It allows those with the intestinal fortitude to be self reliant for their own SURVIVAL. It protects all of the other freedoms. It is merely affirmed by the constitution, as a God given right. For those saying God help us, know that you are going against the leftist ideology of politically correctness and anti Christianity.

criminals are just that, people that commit crimes, there are already laws against murder, yeah that one really works, rape, nope not that either, assault, battery, perjury, entering this country illegally... well, there you go, all we got to do is make more laws to stop those rascally criminals.

Yes, I get mad when I think I have put my life on the line going in to burning houses after kids, wrestling drunks, perps and convicts for you to try and surrender this country to those that would destroy it by giving away our freedoms for the criminally false ideology that laws will protect you. Anybody with half a brain can look up the stats that show more guns equals less crime.

As an aside, in the US vehicle accidents kill more than 42,000 people a year. Medical misadventures kill over 100,000 per year.

Criminals do not fear the cops, they fear armed citizens. That is a fact borne out repeatedly by interviews with hundreds of convicts.

You don't hear someone crying out for a waiting period to check facts when politicians give "speeches"
You don't hear about the one speech a month laws. What about the waiting period to buy a car for drivers previously convicted of drunk driving? When have you heard of a permit to practice religion or go to church?

well guess what, the right to keep and bear arms is a God Given civil right affirmed by the Second Amendment of the United States Constitution and not one Supreme Court case has upheld that it only applies to hunting or the national guard. IT AIN'T ABOUT DUCKS OR DEER! It is there to protect this country from those that would try to become king, or queen, as the case may be.

I see the lines are drawn. And the "war" continues.

You Obama folks ( anti-U.S.Constitution) can defend yourselves, and the country with a warm feeling, and a smile.

I'll keep(and bear) my .45 thank you.

I think you people have forgotten that guns don't kill anyone, people do. We need our Constitutional right to bare arms to protect us not only from the bad guy, but from our corrupt government also! Washington D.C. already has the strictest gun laws in the Country, and the most murders. Wake up, the police can't be everywhere, and their NOT!

Like to know where and how these changes that Obama is talking about are going to take place. Where is he going to get the funding for these so call changes? And also what is the cost going to be to us tax payers for these changes?
The only difference that I see between Clinton and Obama are their gender and race. Other than that they are made out of the same tissue paper. Very weak on substance and full of bull. Of course this is just my opinion.
They are just like the Democrats in the House of Representatives who go on break instead of ensuring that our military, the FBI, and CIA can defend us prperly. Is their vacation more important than our freedom and safety? I think not, but the bloody Liberals and Democrats think so that is why they have taken their break.
I have not read anywhere in the US Constitution that states it is the responsability of the U.S. Government to provide us with food, medical, and any type of retirement (Social Security). The U.S. Constitution does state the the government has LIMITED POWERS and must defend the nation from enemies weather they be foreign or domestic. She (the Constitution) also states that we as individuals have the right to bear arms! And as for me, you will only take my weapons when I am dead!
As for this gun control that Obama wants, let's ask why Australia and New Zealand crime rates have soared? Why their crime rate with guns have soard also? I will tell you why, for the law abiding citizen have no way to protect or defend themselves from criminals. Gun control only works with the law abiding citizens and not the crimial. Criminals never abey the laws that is way they will alawys prepetrate crimes. When citizens can't defend themselves criminal have no fear and they can act even more. For all of you that want complete gun control I want to know this, when you or your family members are assualted, killed, raped we will see how you feel about being able to defend yourself then, and see how you feel. I will tell you that I will not raise a hand to protect you, but I will defend my family, close friends, myself, and what is mine that I have worked for.

I agree we should throw out the second ammendment. then while we are at it lets through out the rest of them also. as you can see I'm being ironic. the amendments have served the country well and we should leave them all alone,

In Illinois you have to apply for a foid card to the state police to have a gun. This should be the first background checks state & fed. Bought 2 guns a year ago second background checks again state & fed. Then he bought 2 more guns more background checks. There is a three day waiting period for gun pick up. lets see 6 background checks in less than 2years.And they want more after the fact laws or laws that say this gun is evil looking lets ban it.
We should be pounding on senators heads to fix the backgrounds checks.DUH & the gang problem.Everything else will fall in line. We need to be united in this.All people need to look at the facts.Most of the anti gunners have no idea the amount of laws there is out there. Blame the judges for not enforcing these laws.It's our big brother that has let us down not the NRA.

The Bill of Rights says "...The right of the people to bear arms shall not be infringed." It does not say "... The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed except for commonsense regulations". And this man who obviously has not read the Bill of Rights wants to be president. No thanks!

Oh great! Microstamped shells... sure this will work... unless they are picked up, or fired from a revolver... and if we want to frame someone we go to a range, pick up casings and leave them behind? Good idea. Fix what we have, not come up with stupid ideas proposed by legislators who know nothing about how things actually work.

To Dennis K: You don't trust law abiding citizens with guns, claiming they are unqualified, know nothing about firarms sasfety, etc. The fact is gun owners are safe responsible people who believe in the Second Amendment. If you don't like it move to Canada - quickly!

Sen. Obama cites a law signed by California Governor Schwarzen-kennedy regarding micro stamping technology. This shows that the Senator as well as California's Governor have lost touch with reality. Against the advice of experts in the field, law enforcement, etc., Schwarzenneg did sign the bill. As a Law Enforcement Armorer, I even invited the Governor to watch a demonstration where I could defeat such imprinting on cartridge cases in less than a minute using readily available hand tools that are found in almost every home in the nation. Further, Canada has sought to impose similar regulations in their country and have since decided to indefinitely postpone any action "since the current technology is not feasible".

The real truth is Obama does not believe in the Second Amendment. He has previously stated that wants to ban private ownership of ALL handguns. He wants to punish the law abiding citizens for the actions of criminals - jsut like in Great Britain. Do you want this kind of anti-gunner in DC? Obama, "From our cold dead hands!"

I am tired of this. Another sensless shooting and the knee jerk is to cry about how these horrible guns must be banned. Both the VT and NIU guns were small caliber not assault weapons. VT used a 22 caliber. and NIU used a pump shotgun standard hunting shotgun. In Illinois the you can only hunt with a rifle. If you ban these guns you are banning all guns.

Once again these are small guns and used in hunting..

'The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.' - Ronald Reagan

The problem is not guns or gun control. The problem is people. People who get elected as judges that don't keep criminals in prison.
If concealed carry is so terrible, then give Ron Goldman a legaly carried pistol. Send him to Nicole's house & you will find out who killed her due to the fact Mr. Goldman would have most likely shot her killer.
As for gun control & Britian's current laws. WE THE PEOPLE stared this country 232 years ago so we didn't have to be British. If you like Britian's laws so much, move there, denounce your citizenship to the US & stay there.

Obama has'nt got sence GOD gave a Goose I beet he has a small army protecting him and his family but that dont count when your running for Office,We the law abiding people have to protect are self because the cops dont,Obama needs to rethink his views this is america not england or canada we have the second amendmet that support us and some ying yang from Ill. wants to take that right away if elected wake up america smell the gun powder you my not have if obamaget elected .

Yesterday, somewhere around 80 million gun owners did not kill anyone. A few days ago, one mentally unbalanced individual did kill some people with guns. Because of the irresponsible, criminal actions of that person, there are cries from the usual suspects for stricter regulations on the 80 million law-abiding gun owners. Now, what's wrong with that picture??

Unless I am mistaken, the school campus was/is a "gun free zone". OK, so why did this disturbed person bring a gun on campus? He must have known it was a gun-free zone, right?

Why didn't the University have some system in place to guarantee that no guns would come on campus? I mean, if you're gonna have a rule, you need to have a mechanism to enforce it. If you don't take proactive steps to enforce a "gun free zone", then when someone strolls in and creates havoc, don't excoriate people who had nothing to do with that act.

How about accepting responsibility for failing to enforce the ban instead of blaming gun owners and the NRA? Do you recall how, a few weeks ago, one armed lady used her legally-carried handgun to stop a would-be mass killer at a religious center? Do you think that someone with a licensed concealed weapon possibly could have stopped the carnage at the University?

Here's another thought - the shooter was on medication for mental problems. If he had ever been adjudged mentally incompetent, or been advised to seek treatment for a mental condition, that fact could have prevented him purchasing the weapons - IF HE DISCLOSED IT ON THE FORM 4473. If he did not, then he lied on the forms and obtained the weapons illegally.

Gun controllers want to snatch guns away from law-abiding citizens every time someone breaks a law and commits a gun crime. How about placing the blame where it belongs - on the people who perpetrate gun crimes instead of on millions of law-abiding citizens.

It's happened again, another heinous crime, and the inevitable, justifiable outrage that follows. "Something has to happen !" It seems we've been forced too often recently to try and come to grips with these incidents. "What do we do about it ?" "What can we do about it ?" "Who can we turn to for help ?" Sadly, in times like this, efforts to take advantage of our vulnerability will shortly begin. And once again, like clockwork, it will come from those we should trust, our elected officials, and those who hope to be elected.

Its human nature to want to see "sweeping changes to make our society safer" or "measures to ensure our children won't fall victim to violent crime." I'm a father of two. One of which is a college student in Illinois today. All parents fear for their children's safety every day.

But don't be fooled. Beware of the blatant manipulation of that fear and the attempts to lead us like sheep with promises that "this will never happen on my watch" every time something terrible like this happens. Watch, you'll see them in the next few days, the cameras will be rolling, the microphones will be on, and the empty, unenforceable, unreachable promises will begin spewing out of their mouths. Current politicians and hopeful candidates will begin telling us what we instinctively want to hear while we grieve for those victims and pray for their families.

It's difficult to be objective in times like these. We want answers, we want solutions, no one will argue we are entitled to be secure on the streets, in our homes, where we work, and in our schools. But to look towards politicians to give us the answers we demand or to protect us against these types of crimes is ridiculous folly. Why do we continue to allow ourselves to be duped by these charlatans ? Have they ever been able to take guns out of the hands of criminals and the mentally ill ? Have they ever been able to "legislate" drugs off the streets ? Of course not. Why ? Because the solutions to these problems are beyond their reach. Yet, they will tell us again and again that they can fix it.

It's despicable behavior really, preying on our emotions for political gain, telling us while we cry for these kids that "this needs to stop !" and somehow convincing us that they can actually do something about it. Don't allow them to dishonor the memory of these victims. Don't allow them to use an ambulance as a political soap box. These crimes are symptoms of social issues. Not the result of some lack of legislation or the poor performance of incumbent politicians. But its election time, so it will begin.

Democracy is tough, and being part of the democratic process is an important responsibility that comes with the expectation that you'll cast your valuable votes after careful consideration of what YOUR definition of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is. Don't be fooled into an emotional response to some veiled guarantee of your safety. Be objective, remove the emotion, listen closely to what their saying and ask yourself, how will he/she really accomplish that ? Do they have the actual authority to carry it out ? Will it work ? And most importantly, what will it cost ?

Microtracing and other restrictive gun laws will not make any difference. If a person wants to kill another person, there are many ways to accomplish this. In calling for the gun retailers and manufacturers to be held responsible is ridiculous, too; you might as well hold the auto industry responsible for every drunk who kills innocent people while driving under the influence. While you're at it, why not blame the victims for being in the line of fire; if they weren't there, they wouldn't have been shot. Wake up people and understand that so-called common sense laws are just another way of saying they want to take away all the firearms from law abiding people so we are easier to control!


we had laws to prevent this. look what happened. by the hillobama gang passes new laws, do you really believe that will stop the idiots, the gang bangers from listening, all gun control did, waqs cost people their lives, if someone had been able to carry, who know how many could have been saved, and you people want the hillobama gang ti run this country.

"I would rather give up a gun (if I had one) than give up my privacy, WHICH IS ALSO INSURED IN OUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS!" (emphasis added)

One of the ways you can know you are dealing with an anti-constitutionalist, is that they know so little of the Constitution. I know ... a very left leaning Supreme Court once claimed there was some Constitutional "Right to Privacy": I think they put it right next to the "Right to Murder Unborn Children": somewhere near the "Wall of Separation of Church and State".

The next time you come home to find someone, just released from prison, raping your wife and/or daughter and/or dog, just whip out your "privacy" and order them to stop. They probably will ... just long enough to have a little laugh before they have their way with you.

The Constitution can not defend YOU anymore than can any law enforcement agency, or an army. But YOU can defend the Constitution: And THAT is the purpose of Article II of the Bill of Rights. Article II of the Bill of Rights DOES guarantee an INDIVIDUAL right: A right that was attested to over and over by the men that wrote the Bill of Rights. But it also implies an INDIVIDUAL responsibility; to protect oneself and family, ones neighbors, ones community, State and Country. But above all, it implies the INDIVIDUAL responsibility to protect the living IDEA that is the REPUBLIC: The United States of America!

another feel good law. why can't they just enforce the ones we have. leave up to the hillobama tyrants. america as we know it is doomed!!!!

Wow any sillier? I think not. here are already too man gun laws on the books as it is that need to be enforced, no need for new ones. Background checks are already requireed for fireamrs purchases as finger printing. Along with many other things.
that are proposed.
So where is the legislation to ban car ownership from people who have a history of hit and runs, failure to comply with insurance laws etc?

I Am a member of the NRA> If you own a gun u should be too. If Your not SHAME on you. This is the kind of crap that the will try to stop. If a person is going to shoot someone he is not going to care wether or not it has a serial number. But If my Ammo stash gets robbed and they use it ,then its traced to me? Thats BS! HE Wants Commonsence laws Fine! Lets hear some. I havnt heard any out of any Demo,s mouth. All they are trying to do is take what is rightfuly Ours. Its Bad that kids got shot and died but hold who is responsible accountable not the rest of us who leagally own guns.

Wow, I think Obama is doing the best he can. All of you critics; what would you do? You can't suggest any stronger gun laws outright in this country, the NRA is too powerful, and that's just the way it is. Obama will take on the health insurance industry, the medical industry and the pharmaceutical industry, and he will end this senseless war (no, we're not winning now, it's too late). He cannot however save the world, especially with all you snipes knocking and not supporting or offering at least, constructive criticism.

Wow, I think Obama is doing the best he can. All of you critics; what would you do? You can't suggest any stronger gun laws outright in this country, the NRA is too powerful, and that's just the way it is. Obama will take on the health insurance industry, the medical industry and the pharmaceutical industry, and he will end this senseless war (no, we're not winning now, it's too late). He cannot however save the world, especially with all you snipes knocking and not supporting or offering at least, constructive criticism.

Violence will exist as long as humans do.No law will ever remove the intent from a persons heart.

Way to go, Obama. Stand up to the NRA and the gun nuts. The gun laws in this country are an absolute joke and have been decimated by the NRA over time. It is time for real change. Other countries like Britain and Canada (really, all the other industrialized democracies) do a great job of keeping guns out of the hands of dangerous individuals. It's time for us to do the same.

I hope that those of you who continue to support politics of compromise realize what you are saying. It must be understood that the Second Amendment did NOT grant anyone one anything, just as with the most important amendment of all, the First. The Amendments were an assurance that our basic rights as human beings, the rights of Natural Law, would not be violated by a tyrannical government. The very idea that our government or any government has ever "granted" these rights to individuals is nothing short of absurd. I simply ask that the citizens protected by these Amendments think about the immeasurable sacrifices that our founding fathers made for the protection of these rights. As we continue to allow compromise to exist in the discussions and debates about our rights as citizens of the United States we are stripping the value of the Bill of Rights down to the point where it will be worth nothing more than the paper on which it is written. Please don't look at the Second Amendment as only a matter of firearms rights, but as a critical aspect of our rights as a whole. "Gun Control" in this country has far less to do with guns as it does about control. People who decide to use firearms for immoral and unjustified acts are only a symptom of the problem, they are not the disease. As we continue to attribute blame to an inanimate object, a gun in this case, and refuse to accept that these crimes are a result of deep social and economic issues in this country we will never make any progress. The only result will be the slow and agonizing loss of everything that makes us Americans.

quit throwing band aids at the problem and hope you will stop the bleeding this is a sick world find out why, get the great minds of the world to find out what is driving people insane they are killing our children and their own children com on guys focus on the real problems

Guns don't kill people. You can lay a loaded gun on a table and it will sit there unfired forever. It takes a person to pick that gun up and pull the trigger. You can create all the gun laws you want and even ban firearms from the public, and guaranteed the crime rate will go up. The criminals will still get weapons and commit crimes with them. At least they will think twice if they are concerned that the citizen they are going to assault has a legall owned firearm to protect him/herself with.

Can you learn in fear? No. Teachers have been complaining for years about how violent and disrespectful students are only for the message to fall on deaf ears, or be told they are children, or that the teacher must be the problem after all we are firing teachers in mass droves, because the students won't learn or pass the test.

Yet, is it any surprise that the guns have graduated from the middle schools to the high schools and now to the colleges. There is not one surprised teacher in regards to these tragic shooting. Just people who think they know what it is like to teach, but are totally clueless administration, politicians and parents. Only corrections officers have a higher fall out rate than teachers, because teachers get them now and corrections officers get them later. So who is willing to risk their life so little pay?

Every one was warned, but no one listened. But guess what it does not stop there, because where do they go after college? They just may be sitting next to you at work. Will you listen now?

If you take the guns away from law abiding people. Then the criminals will still have them. What good is that??? If somebody shoots somebody dont wait 10-20 yrs in prison. Get rid of them. You solve two prob. overcrowding and people willing to do the crime make it where people mentally ill or not pays for what they done. Like someone else said why not make auto manf. responsible for car wrecks or manf. of alcohol liable for drunk driving or veh. homicide.

Obama IS making change, and he is the best candidate to be president. He is trying to reduce crimes while protecting the 2nd amendment.

I will always fail to see how it makes sense to create MORE laws to arrest people who don't follow them in the first place!

I will agree with Obama that the background checks need to be improved, correct me if I'm wrong but a background check doesn't show if you've been commited to mental health facility unless you've been sent there as a result of a criminal sentance.

No, you don't need an assualt rifle to hunt deer, but I've been using the M-4 since I was in the Army, it's my favorite firearm out there. Why do I have to suffer because of those who don't respect our system?

OR! Thinking like a democrat for a minute, why won't they start a licensing system for people who CAN own certain types of firearms such as AR-15's. I've never been arrested in MY LIFE! i don't even have a speeding ticket! So if the dem's are so in love with the federal license system, why not have one that actual GIVES US RIGHTS! oh wait i forget....they're democrats...they hate individual rights.

Gun laws wont keep dirtbags from breaking the law. We don't need more laws, we need to enforce the ones we have. Obama won't do anything but make it worse. The answer is be a parent and raise you kids, whip them when they are bad and teach them right from wrong.

Just a couple things to thing about:

1) It was John F. Kennedy who made it possible NOT to “commit” adults who are suffering with mental illnesses. Since he had a cousin who was bi-polar, and didn’t want her committed, he passed legislation to prevent the housing of mentally ill persons. Most of these people can function, but those who cannot function in public, end up in prison, or on community supervision.
2) Has anyone thought about criminals burglarizing law enforcement officer’s homes to steal weapons? Several officers have had their houses burglarized for nothing more than weapons.
3) Why is the Federal government incarcerating criminals who are in possession of firearms? State courts enforce the majority of these cases. Ask your local US Attorney how many Felons with Firearms cases his office has prosecuted in the past three years. Then check with your local judicial district. Bet the local prosecuted more. Did you know that your Federal prosecutor can adopt any case, and prosecute these cases in Federal Court? Let’s enforce what we have, then look for the loopholes, ladies and gentleman.
4) How many colleges have enough officers to have one in every building? Upgrade the pay, upgrade the training, and hire more officers to protect our students in college. Or have the ROTC cadets provide reserve officers for the universities – they will protect us overseas, why not at home?

Obama is right. Microstamping the ammo would have let the police quickly identify the shooter...that ended the madman's killing spree by a few well placed rounds from a legally carried firearm, so they could be properly congratulated.
That's the only law that an insane, suicidal person will obey.
Do you people honestly think that after writing a suicide note and heading out the door, that they would suddenly stop because the ammo has serial numbers on it? Wake up people! You're scratchin' where it don't itch!

Well the hole micro tagging old bullets really won't work. I say this because it would be very easy for someone to pick up old rounds from a firing range and plant them at the scene. A criminal could possible use a revolver which only ejects bullet cases when the operator wants it to. A criminal could alter the stamp and make it ineffective or replace it with another part. The easiest thing to do would be to use a pre micro tag gun or just steal a gun.

For those of you who would like to ban guns and believe we can just call the police for protection:
Warren v. District of Columbia - Two women were upstairs in a townhouse when they heard their roommate, a third woman, being attacked downstairs by intruders. They phoned the police several times and were assured that officers were on the way. After about 30 minutes, when their roommate's screams had stopped, they assumed the police had finally arrived. When the two women went downstairs they saw that in fact the police never came, but the intruders were still there. As the Warren court graphically states in the opinion: ``For the next fourteen hours the women were held captive, raped, robbed, beaten, forced to commit sexual acts upon each other, and made to submit to the sexual demands of their attackers.'' The three women sued the District of Columbia for failing to protect them, but D.C.'s highest court exonerated the District and its police, saying that it is a ``fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen.'' Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981).

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