Is Huckabee playing dirty with Jesus-Satan query?

Of course it's dirty. It wouldn't be dirty if were being asked of a Democratic candidate, though. Right, JohnD?

Geez, what does this theology debate have to do with running for President of the United States?

Start the Jaws soundtrack, Huckabees tactics are about to consume him.

Yes, Huckabee is playing dirty. How can anybody doubt that? It may be a legitimate question for a sincere seaker of religious truth. Its not a legitimate question in a political campaign. I was a Mormon missionary. Are "Jesus and Satan are brothers" was always code for "my minister told me you are a cult." So, asked if Mormons are a cult Huckabee responds that he thinks they are a religion, but then draws a fish in the sand and says to his true believeing friends "yes, they are a cult - they think Jesus and Satan are brothers."

Okay, the religious nonsense is past its sell-by date. There is no religion test to be president. So get on with the real issues and get off the trivia.

Isn't it time for Governor Huckabee to answer some religious questions.

1) Does he believe in the href='en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicene_creed' Catholic Nicene as the "extra Biblical" definition of the nature of God or does he believe in the Biblical definition of Gods nature?

2) Since he does believe in the Catholic Nicene creed why is believing the Nicene Creed a necessary requisite to being Christian? It's not in the Bible.

3) If the Nicene Creed of the Catholics is the central dogma of being defined a Christian, why does he not accept the authority of the Catholic Church?

Really, what Governor Huckabee needs to understand is that his own attacks on other people's religious beliefs only provide justification for his religion being attacked. If those who believe in Christ don't stand together enjoying what we have in common, we will all fall separately

I liked Huckabee. I thought he was a great candidate. I liked him more than Romney and I am a Mormon. But now, after that comment. I don't think so. Go Rudy!!

Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
(official web site)

http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=4a10ef960417b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1

----------------

ENSIGN
June 1986

I Have a Question

How can Jesus and Lucifer be spirit brothers when their characters and purposes are so utterly opposed?

Jess L. Christensen, Institute of Religion director at Utah State University, Logan, Utah: On first hearing, the doctrine that Lucifer and our Lord, Jesus Christ, are brothers may seem surprising to some -- especially to those unacquainted with latter-day revelations. But both the scriptures and the prophets affirm that Jesus Christ and Lucifer are indeed offspring of our Heavenly Father and, therefore, spirit brothers. Jesus Christ was with the Father from the beginning. Lucifer, too, was an angel “who was in authority in the presence of God,” a “son of the morning.” (See Isa. 14:12; D&C 76:25–27.) Both Jesus and Lucifer were strong leaders with great knowledge and influence. But as the Firstborn of the Father, Jesus was Lucifer’s older brother. (See Col. 1:15; D&C 93:21.)

...That brothers would make dramatically different choices is not unusual.

...We can only imagine the sorrow of our Heavenly Father as he watched a loved son (Lucifer) incite and lead a rebellion and lose his opportunity for exaltation. But we can also imagine the Father’s love and rejoicing as he welcomed back the beloved son (Jesus) who had valiantly and perfectly fought the battles of life and brought about the great Atonement through his suffering and death.

You speak of Christ as the Son of God in Heaven before he was born of Mary on Earth. My question is who was his Mother in Heaven if he was indeed God's Son in Heaven before He became flesh on Earth. I don't believe that the word "Son" means the flesh and blood equivalent of our definition of son. Christ in Heaven may refer to Spirit. God doesn't need to Beget children because He was not Begotten in that purely spirit world. Children are purely a mortal concept, and for that reason Spirt had to become Flesh through a mortal mother, Mary. Human (flesh) creation was the ultimate design of a Spirit God.

Ultimately, Christ and Satan are not brothers because the concept of family is strictly a mortal one.

I'm actually glad the Huckster went for it. This publicly obscure doctrine gives Mormons a chance to explain one of the most beautiful and important facets of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, viz., the pre-mortal life of man. There is certainly nothing uncomfortable about this doctrine. It is, in fact, the best introduction to other beautiful Mormon doctrines (such as agency, deification, God's use of natural law, etc.) Really, Mike, you should stick with the whole "Mormons gots lots o' wives" thing. Though it isn't true, it doesn't allow your fellow Trinity-Christians to discover the true depth and wonder of latter-day revelations.

We're fooling ourselves if we don't think faith plays a major role in who people will vote for in the upcoming election. It's just as wrong for you to say that faith shouldn't play a role. That's you leveling your "religion" on others. At the end of the day, all of us follow some "religion" or another, and like it or not, ultimately that faith will define you. Like it or not, faith will even define the next president whether he or she is an outspoken Christian or an outspoken secularist.

Huckabee was asked, if he considered Mormonism a cult or a religion. He didn't bring it up he was asked. Should he lie or tell the truth ?

All Christians know that Mormonism is a false cult, so why shouldn't he answer the question honestly ?

Mormons know that they are not Christians. They would never consider joining a Christian church and they attempt to "convert" Christians. The author of Mormonism is Satan whose objective is to divert people from Salvation through Jesus.

I'm glad to see that now we need to have interpretation of the bible to lead our government, and not a knowledge of the constitution.

I think Huckabee asked a legitimate question which most Christians don't quite understand about the Mormon religion. I was not aware that Mormons believe that Jesus and Satan were fleshly brothers created by a Heavenly Father and Mother?????

Everything is on the table when running for the highest office in our land. Romney is a good leader but, a person's faith DOES factor into how I view the whole person/candidate.

Huckabee speaks to me so far on taxes, immigration, national security, and the economy and has my vote to date.

Wow, Up-Chuck-Abee is making Willard look good.

And after all; Doesn't every family have a good brother and a bad brother?

Beyond that;
Remember, Republican voters, most of the people who's vote wants are going to Hell, according to him.

Think about it! The 'Papists', the Jews, the 'nominal' NOT born again Christians; All going to Hell, according the Mr. Huckabee.

Randfb: thanks for the clarification in letting us know that Mormons are not just a cult but a "false cult." Whew. I might have mistaken them for a non-false cult.

I don't follow any religion, Bill. Just so you know some of us don't.

There's a cartoon on Youtube that purports to explain Mormon doctrine that makes it sound like that's where Scientology. I don't know if members of the LDS church really believe all that about thousands of Gods on planets all over the galaxy, but what this cartoon says they believe is 100 times stranger than what mainstream Christians believe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy0d1HbItOo

You really have to feel sorry for most mormons. you talk to the average missionary and he will not have 1/2 a clue to all the odd ball doctrines. You can attack, baptists pentacostals,united etc.. at the basis of that attack you will find the flaw of man not Christ. If you examine the LDS faith and do your homework on there original documents and beliefs you will find a faith brought about by the devil. How many cults have seen an angel of light come to them telling them to start there own faith...
http://www.goodnewsforlds.org/video.html

The assumption in this discussion so far has been that Huckabee's question to the reporter was a devious attempt to sneak discussion of controversial LDS theology into the public debate.

In fact, I think Gov. Huckabee is sincere when he says the question was post-interview and he thought it to be off-the-record. Huckabee said in interviews today that the reporter had actually showed substantial knowledge of comparitive religion, and he really though he might have some light to shed on this perennial question.

Governor Huckabee also apologized to Gov. Romney today after the Des Moines Register debate, and assured him it was never his intention for this question to be made public.

Gov. Romney's campaign issued a statement today that he has accepted Gov. Huckabee's apology.

I like Huckabee, personally, but I don't buy his explanation that he, a baptist preacher who holds a degree in Theology, was honestly seeking a New York Times reporter's theological wisdom.

It was a cheap shot. I was surprised and disappointed. Huck will take some heat, and frankly, he'll deserve it.

When was the last time you beat your wife, Mr. Huckabee?

I really don't want an outwardly bible-thumping southerner for president. Huckabee should do all that in a closet if he is really sincere. It is cheap, and a turn-off to pander about religion, and boring for the MSM to entertain it. I think Bush said that God wanted him to run for pres on that weird TV evangelist's show-- the guy who used to sell vitamin B12 to christians. That was the beginning of the downfall of our country. The more people profess to be christian, the more I do not trust them--and I think the very opposite of what comes out of their mouths. Christian pandering for power over a nation, over laws, and people = the Anti-christian. Huckabee is playing the concerned holy simpleton. Puke on that--and dangerous, again, for our nation.

Being neither an Evangelical nor a Mormon, it is hard for me to understand why members of either faith would find a direct question about a doctrine they either do or do not believe in, to be offensive. Yet, Mitt was clearly offended by Huck's question; or was he merely feigning offense?

Romney responded: "I think attacking someone's religion is really going too far. It's just not the American way. and I think people will reject that."

Mitt attacks Huck for asking a question that has a simple factual answer, claiming that Huck, by asking it, attacked his faith. But, as it turns out, Mormons do in fact believe that Lucifer and Jesus are brothers. Mitt's anger is rather like a Roman Catholic taking umbrage at the question "Don't Catholics believe that The Virgin Mary is Jesus's earthly mother?"

Mitt goes on to say: "That's been something that's been leveled at our church over many many years and of course that's been set straight now."

Note that Mitt, showing that no matter what his religion might be, his real faith is placed in political dodge ball, does not actually deny that Mormons believe that Lucifer and Jesus are brothers. He can't deny it; the official LDS website says that they do believe it.

Why then does he fashion a non-denial denial of a tenet of his religion's doctrine?

Perhaps it is because he understands that the fundamentalist Christian political bloc he hopes to woo considers Christian faith, and in particular their own special interpretation of it, to be very much a legitimate political concern. They want politicians who believe what they believe to use that belief to make America a better place. For them, there is no irony in that idea. But he also understands that if they learn that his special interpretation of Christian faith is radically different from theirs, they will look elsewhere for their Christian President.

Huckabee, no doubt, understands that too. That's why he brought it up in the first place. Now he apologizes, knowing that the question, and its answer, are irrevocably out there. Like Steve Erkel's "Did I do that?", Huck's assurances of innocent intent fail to persuade.

Thanks to this little flap, Mitt looks like a Mormon of convenience and Huck looks like a vicious gossip. And I mean that in the nicest possible way.

This is the clearest and most believable explanation of how this controversy came about. If you are interested, please click on this link and watch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzzWFbHfbg4

"I don't know if members of the LDS church really believe all that about thousands of Gods on planets all over the galaxy, but what this cartoon says they believe is 100 times stranger than what mainstream Christians believe."

Posted by: Cheryl | December 12, 2007 6:29 PM

Cheryl really who cares. All religions suck!

Yes it's "playing dirty" but not on Huckabee's part. In the course of a 2-3 hrs visit from the Times journalist Huckabee casually asked the interviewer who seemed to know more about Mormonism than he did if that rumor were true regarding Jesus and Satan. It is the type of question that any curios mind would ask while on the subject of Mormonism. Huckabee has TRIED very hard NOT to say anything negative about Romney's Religion even though he, like many others, knows that there ARE many negative things that COULD be said about it. (I might add that there are a lot of GOOD things that could be said as well). The MEDIA would LOVE to see a "religious fight" break out between Romney and Huckabee. THEY are the ones "playing dirty" in the course of trying to start one.

"DONE PUT A FORK IN HIM,HE'S TOAST,AND HIS FEET STINKS AND REALLY DOESN'T LOVE JESUS"

NO BRAINER, WHEN YOU BECOME THE ISOLATIONIST, AT THE END OF THE DAY, YOU ARE A PRETTY SICK MAN OR WOMAN, AND YOU ISOLATE YOUR VICTIM OF CHOICE AND COMMIT SOME HANIS CRIME AMONGST THEM ALL.

ISOLATE THEM BLACK FOLKS WHO EAT WATERMELON.

ISOLATE THEM MORMANS, WHO LOVE WARREN JEFF.

ISOLATE THE MEXICANS, BECAUSE WE NEED TO CHECY THEIR ID.

ISOLATE AMERICA, BECAUSE CHERTOF SPEAKS AND HE SAID THAT DUE TO THE "organizational churn" IN CONGRESS TO CONSOLIDATE IT'S OVERSIGHT, NOW DESPITE, AGAIN DESPITE THE 911 COMMISSION TO JUST LET GEORGE BUSH OR DICK DO EVERYTHING, I AGAIN, BECAUSE I HEARD THE VOICES AND I AM THE EVANGELICAL LEADER OF AMERICA, AGAIN I HEARD THE VOICES.

SO WHAT IF GEORGE BUSH DID, HE WAS TALKING TO MY GOD!

GOD WANTS WORLD CUP NOT FALSE PROPHETS.

LONG LIVE NANCY PELOSI!

I've never really understood the Evangelical Christian logic of saying, "I've talked to thousand of Mormons and they have no idea what their church teaches." Followed by, "They also try to hide what they believe by not putting it in their official scriptures, lesson manuals, magazines, etc."

Did it ever occur to them that if no Mormon believes it and it's not being taught anywhere, that maybe the doctrine is actually NOT MORMON DOCTRINE????

I have known for years that Mormons believe that Jesus and Satan are half brothers. (Some in my husband's family were Mormon, and a relative of Joseph Lee (important in the Mormon history) showed me what they really believe. They believe that God the father physically impregnated Mary to create Jesus, and that he physically impregnated a spirit woman in heaven to have Satan (at first called Lucifer). However, Christians believe that God became man in the form of Christ Jesus, in order to redeem us from His holy death sentence for our sins by dying in our place. Lucifer was an angel he created; when Lucifer rebelled against God, he was cast to the earth until such a time as Jesus throws him into the Lake of Fire forever and ever. So Jesus is the Lord God Almighty, and Lucifer was one of His created angels.

dude he was right but he could have said it nicely.
look he's been badgered by people asking him about mormonism for a long time. i don't hate mormons but im sure if i'd been told something like that about mormons i would be lucky if it didn't pop out. and i wouldn't say it to be mean.
just to ask.
:)

Frank, you made a big goof.
The term "bible-believing" should be in quotes - otherwise it is a biased phrase. "Bible-believing" is the term evangelical Christians use to distinguish themselves from other branches of Christianity - but ALL Christians believe in the Bible. More specifically, Evangelicals believe in a liberal, infallible interpretation of one particular translation of the Bible.

Don't take my word for it -look it up in the AP Stylebook.

A big HA-HA to both Willard and Huckleberry. This is what happens when you let religious nuts capture your party. The Republics are having to debate religious theology instead of policy.

No one cares that Harry Reid is also a Mormon because our party does not care about your religious (or lack thereof) beliefs. There is no litmus test. Willard brought this on himself.

Of course he is.

Mike was the Keynote Speaker at an Anti-Mormon conference in Salt Lake City a few years ago (sponsored by the Southern Baptist Convention). To claim ignorance of Mormon theology, earns him the moniker "The Huckster".

So then what does the mormons have to say about Jesus and Satan being brothers on THEIR site? Any Fruit Loop that would believe this is not getting my vote. See second question down on this page:

http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=4a10ef960417b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1

Nancy Meacham,

Having been raised a Mormon and holding positions of authority in the church, I can tell you definitely that Mormons do not believe as you state:

"They believe that God the father physically impregnated Mary to create Jesus, and that he physically impregnated a spirit woman in heaven to have Satan (at first called Lucifer)."

That's just crazy talk. We do believe that all of Gods children (every human being) are spiritually his children, including Jesus, and the fallen angel Lucifer. No one has any idea how Mary was impregnated, the only authoritative statement on that is the biblical reference to her being "overshadowed by the spirit" and concieving Jesus in his physical form.

Please don't put your belief's about our beliefs out there like they are fact when you really don't know what LDS members believe.

All this talk of religion is making me meshugga.

Direct from the Mormon Chruch's web site.

They publish the lesson plans for instructing people on Mormon theology.

Gospel Principles:

http://www.lds.org/library/display/0,4945,11-1-13-6,00.html

How could that be any less clear?

Satan is Jesus' brother.

he a loser and crazy!!!

A candidate’s faith may not matter to some, but if issues of faith are going to be discussed in the news, it is worthwhile to make some clarifying distinctions.

Mormonism is a cult, if you define cult as "Any religious group that deviates radically from orthodox teachings of historic Christianity, while adherents are claiming to be "true Christians" by way of some special revelation or privilege". There are many cults out there, Mormonism being one.

Christians and Mormons worship two DIFFERENT Gods.

Here are a few differences between what Christians and Mormons believe:
1Mormon – God was once a man like us.
1Christian – God was, is, and always will be God.

2Mormon – Many Gods, an unknown number of them
2Christian – One God. Isaiah 44 “I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God…Is there a God beside me? Yea, there is no God; I know not any.”

3Mormon – Salvation by grace AND works 2 Nephi 25:23
3Christian – Salvation by faith alone. Many verses, one example Ephesians 2:8-9

4Mormon – Men become Gods, have a marriage in Heaven and procreate children in Heaven (just as God does now)
4Christian – The idea that “Men become Gods” is blasphemy. Jesus said we will be neither married nor given in marriage in Heaven. Matthew 22:29-30

Mormons and Christians worship a different Jesus as well:

The Jesus of the Bible: Co-Eternal with God, without beginning or end.

The Jesus of Mormonism: Created by a God, who was himself also created. At one time this Jesus was not, then, having been created by God, became. This Jesus is thus less than God.

Each religion has a different Jesus, and a different God. One is Christian while the other is clearly not.

The "Satan/Jesus Are Brothers" thing is a standard anti-Mormon slur and Huckabee knows it. He is playing the religion card, and in a very repulsive way.

The last time I heard this "innocent question" was when an evangelical street preacher was screaming his venom at my family while we were trying to attend a church conference (see http://www.fairlds.org/Anti-Mormons/Street_Preachers.html).

If Huckabee wants to engage in these tactics he should go back to the pulpit. There is no place for this in a presidential race.

Sometimes, the very best lie of all is a literal truth, told out of context. This is a perfect example.

What we really believe is this:

All of us are, in a very real, literal sense, the children of our Heavenly Father. So in this sense, all of us are brothers and sisters. Jesus is, in this sense, our eldest brother.

His rebellion and the consequences thereof notwithstanding, Satan is also a child of our same Heavenly Father, and so he is our brother as well.

When you hear the claim made that we believe that Satan is Jesus' brother, this claim is nearly always made without any reference to the fact that according to our beliefs, all of us?including Jesus and also including Satan?are all brothers and sisters. Though the statement is literally true, its purpose is to deceive the reader/listener into thinking that we believe that Satan shares some kind of kinship with Jesus that the rest of us do not, which puts him above us, and makes him an equal or near-equal to Jesus. Of course, we do not believe any such thing. According to our beliefs, Satan is and will forever be?as a consequence of his rebellion?below us and inferior to us.

"Mormonism is a cult, if you define cult as "Any religious group that deviates radically from orthodox teachings of historic Christianity, while adherents are claiming to be "true Christians" by way of some special revelation or privilege". There are many cults out there, Mormonism being one."

Please note that Christianity is a cult by that definition, for Christ and his followers departed from orthodox Jewish / Biblical tradition by way of some special revelation or privilege. They added a whole volume of new scripture and revelation, in fact, after Moses wrote that no man should add or substract to the word (Deut. 4:2). It was the NEW Testament, a NEW revelation that the respected religious leaders of the day saw as false. How more cult-like can you get?

But to really understand how Mormons belong to a cult, like other Christians, you need to see the #1 site on the mormon cult topic: MormonCult.org.

The evangelicals shall smite thee heathens from the face of the earth to spite the nose of those who can smell the truth about the reptoid aliens who really run things. Word.