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Check out the cross in the Huckabee ad

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Election 2008
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Posted December 18, 2007 2:40 PM
The Swamp

by Frank James

An Associated Press analysis of the Mike Huckabee's new Christmas-card TV ad reminds me of something I noticed last night when I first saw the ad, the not-so-subtle use of the cross behind the former Arkansas governor.

The AP analysis actually doesn't mention the use of the cross. But one of our commenters, Jaaron, noticed it too. And of course, it's no accident. That the lines of the cross actually appear to be formed by the frame of a shelves that hold Christmas ornaments was very slick.

And notice how as the camera pans from left to right, the cross slides eventually slides behind him.

Maybe the ad makers wanted to plant a subliminal seed, causing Christian voters to ask about Huckabee the messiah question John the Baptist asked of Jesus: Are you the one?

Have no doubt. Evangelical Christians will see the cross very clearly. Deeply religious people can see things others miss, like the Virgin Mary in a stain left by road runnoff on the walls of a highway overpass. And in this case, it's not even that ambiguous.

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Comments

Sorry, I am an evangelical christian and I didn't see a cross. I heard a sincere Christmas greeting instead.


I didn't notice the "cross" at first, but I did have a sudden, unconscious urge to crucify someone. Thanks for tipping me off about the subliminal messages, Frank. With your help, I wont fall for it next time.


Huckabee's rise is attributed to desperation, not aspiration. The GOP electorate was desperate to head off Rudy Giuliani (America's Playa'):

http://s86.photobucket.com/albums/k88/Duke_S/?action=view¤t=Sex_On_The_City_04.jpg

so they pinned their hopes on idiot Granpa Fred Thompson and he fell flat. They tried to prop up Romney until they realized that he might make it and that would be weird, or something; and this scared them so now they are turning to the Huckster who is carrying his "bag of crazy" with him:


Top Ten Moments in Mike Huckabee's Extremism:

10) Huckabee Calls for the Quarantine of AIDS Victims...in freaking 1992!!

9) Huckabee Enables the Politically-Motivated Parole of Repeat Rapist/Murderer

8) Huckabee Offers Faith-Based Pardons

7)Huckabee Undermines the Teaching of Evolution

6) Huckabee Speaks for God

5) Huckabee Speaks to God

4) Huckabee Claims God Behind His Rise in the Polls

3) Huckabee Proclaims His Theology Degree a Unique Qualification to Fight Terrorism

2) Huckabee Flip-Flops, Calls for Federal Abortion Ban

1) Huckabee Calls for Consumption Tax, Abolition of the IRS


Keep in mind that Ron Paul, who is nowhere in the polls, is pulling in bigtime money, much of it from current and ex-military members.

The Wingnuts are all OVER the map; and it means they don't want ANY of these losers.


What's the big deal? We all know this is a Christian nation, and that non-Christians aren't REAL Americans. I mean it's all there in the Preamble of the Constitution:

We the Christians of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Theocracy, establish Holy Justice, insure religious Tranquility, provide for the common defence against the infidels, promote general holiness, and secure the Blessings of Christianity to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Christian Constitution for the United States of America.


The opiate of the masses.

Religion.


Frank must be really bored and really desperate. Course, the media loves to note religion and Republicans (Huckabee and Romney) but not when it's a Dem.
So, Frank, be honest. It wasn't you or AP that decided to make this a story, but moveon.org? The DailyKook? Ariana's Little Loony Left Nest Post? Talk about flip floppers. Ariana goes from right wing to extreme left wing, but the Loons just soak up her blather like camels drinking water at an oasis.

I have no doubt there was a subtle use of the cross there.

Anyway, Frank, when are you going to cover all the infighting taking place among Democrats in Congress? Or the Clinton's murky business dealings with Burkle and the off-shore accounts in the Cayman's?
Ooops, I'm sorry, those stories aren't part of the moveon.org, media matters for no america marching orders.


When Herald-Journal readers turn to Lane Filler’s column each Sunday, they do so not knowing which Filler they will find.
Will it be their intensely local neighbor, breaking down the realities of race, class, property values and charter schools in the city’s most conflicted school district?
Will it be the biting satirist, totally recasting No Child Left Behind to expose its flaws to even that law’s most virulent supporters?
The aggressive journalist with his feet on the street, convincing Mike Huckabee to let him thumb through his wallet and report the contents to give readers a glimpse of one presidential candidate’s inner life?
The social commentator, out in the community to learn about a black cultural giant he’s never heard of and share his findings, and thoughts on what they mean, with readers?
The policy wonk gone mad, taking on John McCain on health care and throwing leeches and laughter into the mix?
The off-beat philosopher, mixing childhood reminisce and common sense to repudiate social activists gone horribly wrong?
The whimsical husband and father, nearly killed by an everyday home repair gone horribly wrong?

Readers don’t know which Filler they will find, but they have learned that they need to look, because he never fails to engage their senses, whichever senses he’s addressing that day.


Anyone interested in what Huckabee is really like face to face should try this funny (but it actually happened) column:
http://goupstate.us/index.php/lanefiller/2007/11/02/title_14


I didn't know it was a self until you pointed it out--I thought it was a cross. Now Rudy should make an ad next to two huge volumes side by side on a book shelf, spot lit, resembling the WTC towers.


Dear Lord:

Please save us from your followers.

Amen.


Cheryl, I pray the Lord hears you.


Do you agree with Ron Paul's characterization of Mike Huckabee, ‘when fascism comes to this country, it will be wrapped in the flag, carrying a cross’?

http://digg.com/2008_us_elections/Ron_Paul_Facsist_Huckabee_wrapped_in_flag_carrying_cross

.


The bigotry by most of you on here is absolutely ridiculous.

The character of this nation has fallen to an all time low if you go by the comments people leave on all these news articles.

Fortunately the reality is it's the lowest common denominator of our society which shows such hatred, and there are still good people out there.


I feel that Huckabee was smart for running this ad. It may even sure up a victory in Iowa.

That being said, my thoughts on the whole campaign: I believe Hilary will be the democratic nominee and it is my feeling the only way to beat her in the general election is to nominate one of two people: Mitt Romney or Giuliani.

This is my logic: People want great change in America and a clean break from Bush; democrats and republicans alike.

If Huckabee is the nominee, Hilary will convince voters that if you think Bush brought too much religion into the white house, then watch out...Huckabee will be worse. He is having success in the "Bible Belt” states but I feel that some of his poor decisions as Gov. will ultimately be his downfall.

Fred Thompson I feel would make a decent VP but he lacks the support and to be frank, the knowledge of crucial issues. He is also too much like Bush.

Ron Paul: Ron Paul who? No, I'm just joking. Paul can sure raise a lot of money in one day...what was it, $6 million? Wow! But his views and some of the policies he wants to introduce are neither pro-democrat nor pro-republican. He is by far the worst debater in the republican race. Hilary would be a shoe-in if Ron Paul was the rep nominee.

John McCain has a lot of experience and has a good consistent record to back it up. His downfall is his lack of organization. He spent something like $36 million during this campaign and not much to show for it. Also, the man tends to be a hot-head. I feel that if nominated, the Hilary team will find a way to hit a nerve and make him explode. He will say something very un-presidential and look stupid.

Giuliani and Romney have the money, support, and organization. Out of Giuliani and Romney, I feel that Romney has the better shot at beating Hilary. The logic behind my theory:

Giuliani has many personal skeletons in his closet. Hilary will find them, exploit them, and make him look unfit and unworthy to run the country. He is tough on crime and terror and I personally think he is running his campaign very savvy by not attacking anyone and playing the "American's Mayor" card. But I feel that his stance on abortion, gay rights, and his scandalous personal life will play a big role with conservatives. Hilary vs. Giuliani would be a very close race and it would be anyone's ballgame. I only hope and pray that Giuliani wins if these two meet.

Romney vs. Hilary on the other hand would make for a very interesting presidential race. The first woman nominee and the first Mormon nominee. Their views differ drastically on almost every issue. All the democrats will vote for Hilary and the same with the republicans voting for Romney. I feel that the presidential debates will be important and will sway enough independents towards Romney because he is the best debater and orator. Hilary is a politician. Romney is a business man/politician/leader. He is charming and likable, presidential and has a history of success. Hilary will probably play the "Mormon" card against Romney, kind of like the "Kindergarten" card she played against Obama. It will only hurt her in the end. In general, I believe that the voters will not judge the nominee on religion but on experience, views on critical matters, and their integrity. The only hope for Hilary is to make Romney out to be a "flip-flopper," and I must admit, he seemed to have changed his views on certain issues. But I'm confident that if given the opportunity to explain himself, the American voting population will understand and sympathize. I see this race being close but not as close as a Hilary vs. Giuliani race. Romney wins by almost double digits.


I don't think this guy should be using religion to promote himself..however, I find it just as sad the amount of hate that many Americans have for God.


Apparently, Bush/Cheney/Impeach/Imprison likes Karl Marx more than Huckabee.


www.TaxHikeMike.org


Check out the framing on the picture of GWB on 'Baseball fan-in-chief Bush'
a few down in the archive( December, 14)


O PLEASE, GIVE IT A REST,YE MERRY GENTLEMEN. For the love of Mike. Hummm wonder if that was a subtle slip there! Let us just have a nice Christmas and not try to read something into everything and not smear anybody for at least 2 weeks! Then let 'er rip!!


"Course, the media loves to note religion and Republicans (Huckabee and Romney) but not when it's a Dem."

Were you perpetually blind when the media loved to note religion and Democrats (Obama) a few threads back.


If Barack Obama had done this commercial, with the same imagery, it would be called "brilliant" by the same folks calling it "scary."


Frank must be really bored and really desperate. Course, the media loves to note religion and Republicans (Huckabee and Romney) but not when it's a Dem.
____________________________
Tiny minded juannieed! Don't you get it? Of course not, why do I bother asking. All Dem's are godless liberals, so there IS no religious coverage Frank can offer. Obviously you haven't been drinking the coultergeist kool aid recently.

I am sure catty anniee will forgive you. Just buy one more copy of all her books and make sure to add them to your corrupt race-card-playing revisionist intolerant religion-perverting sociopathic authoritarian Constitution-shredding moronic sexually repressed faux noise-humping connie museum.


Anyway, Frank, when are you going to cover all the infighting taking place among Democrats in Congress? Or the Clinton's murky business dealings with Burkle and the off-shore accounts in the Cayman's?
Ooops, I'm sorry, those stories aren't part of the moveon.org, media matters for no america marching orders.

Posted by: John D | December 18, 2007 3:23 PM

Republicans shouldn't throw stones at glass houses John. Please tell me I don't have to spell that out for you.

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/1992/09/bushboys.html


"Despicable tactics are the only thing they have left in their arsenal."
Presidential candidate Mike Huckabee

We knew that from the beginning of the Bush administration Mike.

p.s. Huckster bee, your no different!


"Loons just soak up her blather like camels drinking water at an oasis."

Posted by: John D | December 18, 2007 3:23 PM

Then by all means drink up John D.


Funny how so many people are afraid of a cross (a.k.a. the deep dark subliminal symbol in the ad)
It must represent something they are running from or want to obliterate from history. I guess we should do something about Arlington cemetery eh? It's government property after all. --Get a grip people. If you want to live in a culture full of smug, self-promoting atheists, move to Europe. Otherwise, try practicing some of that tollerance you preach so regularly.


[quote]
Or the Clinton's murky business dealings with Burkle and the off-shore accounts in the Cayman's?

Posted by: John D | December 18, 2007 3:23 PM
[/quote]

Geographically Challenged Dumb Dumb LIttle Johnnie D, "the Joseph Stalin of Streamwood", post links to non-right wing biased web sites that have the facts about these stories; that is, if you're not making up stuff as usual.

You're such a "journalist".

Not.


I am a professional commercial photographer. I can tell you that every pro know, "if you want to see it - put light on it. If you want to hide it - keep light off of it." Believe me, the photographer who shot this piece knew exactly what was in his viewfinder as he and his crew composed this scene. The cross is intentional and is in this shot because they wanted it in there. Period. -dixon cannon


Otherwise, try practicing some of that tollerance you preach so regularly.

Posted by: Mark R | December 18, 2007 8:27 PM


Thankyou Mr. Christo-Fascist, may I have another?


Hey ladies, if elected President, here's the role Mike Huckabee will expect you to play:

In August of 1998, Huckabee was one of 131 signatories to a full page USA Today Ad which declared: "I affirm the statement on the family issued by the 1998 Southern Baptist Convention." What was in the family statement from the SBC? "A wife is to submit herself graciously to the servant leadership of her husband even as the church willingly submits to the headship of Christ."

The ad wasn't just a blanket, "we support the SBC statement," but rather highlighted details. The ad Huckabee signed specifically said of the SBC family statement: "You are right because you called wives to graciously submit to their husband's sacrificial leadership."

We can now add "Graciously Submit" to his "Take Back the Nation for Christ" statement, this guy is George W Bush on steroids.


As more skeletons emerge from Mike Huckabee's closet, Americans are getting a fuller picture of a man who seeks to render the wall separating church and state, meaningless. As it turns out, The Huckster isn't merely a religious extremist who threatens mainstream America values, but an ethically-challenged operator with a track record of gorging at the public trough.

Here, then, are 10 More (11-20) Moments in Mike Huckabee's Extremism:


11) Huckabee Vows to Take Nation Back for Christ

12) Huckabee Declares Culture War in 1998 Book

13)Huckabee Declares Women Should Graciously Submit to Their Husbands

14) Huckabee Predicts Victory over Islam at the End of Times

15) Huckabee Boasts About Theology Degree He Doesn't Have

16) Huckabee Destroys His State Computer Records - and Church Sermons

17) Huckabee Offers State Appointments in Exchange for Gifts

18) Huckabee Uses Wedding Registries to Furnish New Home

19)Huckabee Offers Clemency to Repeat DWI Offender (and GOP Donor)

20) Huckabee Intervenes to Save Dog-Killing Son from Legal Jeopardy


This guy is scary...


1. So, Mike Huckabee put the symbol of a cross in a "Christmas card T.V. add? So freaking what?!?!? Like, duh, he's a Christian. Christmas was supposed to be a celebration of Jesus Christ's birth, which makes symbolism regarding Christ rather relevant.

It takes a twisted mind indeed to view a Christmas message, a nativity scene, or any public expression of religious belief as something "offensive" as many left-flying organizations do (like the A.C.L.U.). I hope, and pray they haven't brainwashed you guys yet, but I must admit that I find some of your posts a little distressing in this regard.

2. What do I think of Ron Paul's supposed “characterization of Mike Huckabee, ‘when fascism comes to this country, it will be wrapped in the flag, carrying a cross’?”

First, this is not a fair characterization of Ron Paul’s comments. When asked what he thought about the ad (and not Huckabee), Ron Paul entire comments were:

“I haven’t thought about it completely, but, you know, it reminds me of what Sinclair, ah, Lewis once said. He says, when fascism comes to this country it will be wrapped in the flag, carrying the cross. And I don’t know if that’s a fair assessment or not, but you wonder about using a cross like he is the only Christian, or imply that subtly. So, I don’t . . . I don’t think I would have ever used anything like that.”

That’s hardly calling Huckabee a fascist, although one can discern that Ron Paul believed Huckabee’s methods were inappropriate.

Second, Ron Paul’s comments cannot be viewed as anti-religion or anti-religious, on the assumption that he suggested religion would bring fascism. It is more of a statement that fascism would be wrapped in the trappings of traditional American culture to make it more palatable. I say this because Ron Paul is, himself, a Christian, and has some rather pro-Christian – and not so politically correct views - concerning religion and the separation of Church and State. See http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul148.html Hence, it is really having the tail wagging the dog to suggest the message was anti-Christian rather than simply anti-Mike Huckabee. But we already knew Huckabee and Paul weren’t on friendly terms ever since their first major sparring match in a debate earlier this year.


If you want to live in a culture full of smug, self-promoting atheists, move to Europe.
_____________________________
Actually, we are doing a fine job of developing atheists here in the US. I think I'll stay and fight the good fight.


If you want to live in a culture full of smug, self-promoting atheists, move to Europe.

Funny as someone who comes from Europe some tend to view America in this manner. As a matter of fact, since you went there first, your statement is nothing short of smug self promoting atheism--short on that "American tolerance".


It must represent something they are running from or want to obliterate from history.

Posted by: Mark R | December 18, 2007 8:27 PM

True Mark, it's called Iran. Theocracy. Separation of church and state. Get the drift?


Frank James is not to be taken seriously.

Next he'll be saying that the Huckabee campaign is a Masonic Plot--or is it the Knights Templars?


Keep talking about my candidates Christmas message.He's getting a lot of free air time.And while your at it, please send a donation.


all this rhetoric is follishnes and an intent denial to dismiss truth. The Demo-wacks have had control over congress for 2 years now and have done NOTHING but fund pork barrel projects and have not come close to making any kind of real progress that the promised their poor demo-wack supporters. There credibility is SHOT! and as for Huckabee... People fear that he will win, which he is... At this point I will vote for anybody other than a Demowack. i am so frustrated that I have changed party position and will vote Repub this year.

christmas is the celebration of the birth of jesus christ and if anyone do not want to celebrate it then don't but remember, each time you give a gift to someone else, you are mimicking the 3 wise men that gave gifts to jesus at his birth and most importantly, you are mimicking the giving factor that God gave his only begotten son to the world. So whether you formally ccelebrate or deny it, each gift given is a reflection of God Giving Christ to the earth as a gift. and i am happy to have received a merry christmas wish from a governmental official.. which that does not happen at all now a days! I am so proud of Huckabee i do not know what to do. He is a man of principle and he surely just sealed the deal with my vote. He will win and big he will, and while the pundits try to demise him, or his other political rivals try to make him look bad. They may want to look at the mirror at themselves. You got flip flopping mitt, dead fred, pimped out guiliani , no brain mccain, and PAUL IS DEAD!

And as for the Dems: you got Hell-ary that have sold her soul to the left party lobbyist in america, and you got chronic smoking Obama? which neither one has ANY experience in foreign policy. If it was not for Hell-ary having bill clinton last name, she would not even be known.

Huckabee is the sure winner and will win big. I can not wait for romney to get out of the race. i bet he will go back to hiring illegals to work in his yard. check more out about him at www.massresistance.org he is the biggest flake since kellogs!

More on Romney’s Leadership check out these links:
www.massresistance.org and http://rightsmart.blogspot.com/


Hey Frank, that "cross" in the Huckabee ad is a BOOKSHELF! Any moron with any kind of a brain, except for the blithering morons on the Left, could make that out. So, now a bookshelf becomes a "cross."

Oh, by the way, GEOGRAPHICALLY CHALLENGED and PEREPTUALLY STUPID BC, Bloomberg News Service reported on the CLinton/Burkle/Cayman Island story.

By the way, PERPETUALLY STUPID BC, still think the Cuba northern shoreline doesn't border the Gulf of Mexico???


Bruce "history will judge" whether or not Frank James is to be taken seriously. Frank James hasn't said anything of the sort as of yet yet, and until he does the only person who shouldn't be taken seriously is you with your conspiracy theories.


This guy is scary...

Posted by: John E | December 18, 2007 10:46 PM

You are always afraid - so that is no surprise- but now you are afraid of this? Why? Let me help you with some context..


"Let us have faith that right makes might, and in that faith, let us, to the end, dare to do our duty as we understand it."

"Common looking people are the best in the world: that is the reason the Lord makes so many of them."

"With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in; to bind up the nation's wounds; to care for him who shall have borne the battle, and for his widow and his orphan - to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace, among ourselves, and with all nations."

I defer to Abraham Lincolns quotes above, and in particular his amazing " with malice towards none... " quote to show how far this country has come in it's pathologic fear of anyone who has the courage to define himself by his faith or beliefs.

Lincoln had no fear of using his faith to communicate to the nation at its worst time- what would be the reaction to his speeches now?

Would you have been afraid of Lincoln's overt use of his faith?


"The Demo-wacks have had control over congress for 2 years now"

Oh really? I didn't realize it was January of 2009 yet.

Anyway, for the person defending the ad saying a cross is ok in Huckabee's Christmas message, sure it's ok if that's all his message is. But he's campaigning for votes, and is manipulating religious sentiments to get them. And if a cross in the ad is ok, then why does Huckabee deny it was a cross? Maybe he'll deny it 3 times.


Wow look at John D. It only took him 24 hours to realize what everyone else is talking about: the book shelf resembles (not is) a cross.

Back peddling moron--

"I have no doubt there was a subtle use of the cross there." Dec 18 3:23 PM

"Hey Frank, that "cross" in the Huckabee ad is a BOOKSHELF! Any moron with any kind of a brain, except for the blithering morons on the Left, could make that out." Dec 19 11:03 PM

Priceless.


Republican National Convention - 2004: There was a giant cross proudly displayed, in the construction of the stage itself. GWB, with his holier-than-thou crap spewing out used that symbol and all the little piggies went yeah, yeah, yeah. So what's wrong with Huckabee using it? One religious bigot is just as bad as the other.


So what's wrong with Huckabee using it? One religious bigot is just as bad as the other.

Posted by: snalg | December 19, 2007 4:39 PM

Such anger over a cross.. intentional or not, your post sounds pretty intolerant and bigoted to me?

This country was founded on judeo-christian beliefs.. BECAUSE of this we are a country that accepts all religons and does not riot over cartoons, or threaten to behead a teacher when her class names a stuffed animal after the prophet...

You really should save some of your anger for Hillary's Christmas card offering the marxist redistribution of wealth universal health care scam as a present to ..i think us.



Otherwise, try practicing some of that tolerance you preach so regularly.

Posted by: Mark R | December 18, 2007 8:27 PM

Thankyou Mr. Christo-Fascist, may I have another?

* * * * *

Do yourself a favor, John. Never, ever let anyone (including yourself) accuse you of being tolerant, fair minded or capable of independent thought. It would be the most execrable lie ever uttered.

You want another? How about the truth?

The truth is that Evangelical Christians in Germany were persecuted, imprisoned and killed for resisting fascism in Europe in the 1930s and 1940s. The same occurred in the Soviet Union for opposing Stalin's reign of murder. Its not the Christians who would bring you fascism or a totalitarian State. It’s people like you who will bring that about.

The truth is that you are closer to being a fascist than anyone else because of your intolerance for any idea other than those approved by your political ideologists. You say you believe in First Amendment rights, but then express hostility toward the exercise of those rights by those whose ideas you despise. In this, you preach tolerance but then hypocritically fail to practice it.

You will have a fascist State created in your own image as soon as all those intolerable ideas a swept away in favor of a single, socialist ideology which drives all of the ancient culture from the public square, and into the dark recesses. Hitler and Stalin believed the same would be true with their little utopias.

And then you wonder why I won’t join the “big tent” party of the Democrats. I won’t join because I would have to grin and bear the kind of crap you spew. Life is way too short for that.


Romney got elected as Governor of Massachusettes as a pro-choice Republican, then he tosses those constituants overboard when he had his change of heart and became pro-life. Regardless of if the the change of heart was real, he flip flopped on those people. What issue is he running on now that he may have a change of heart on later?


So John W, I hear Ron Paul won't return a $500 donation made by a white supremacist.


[quote]
By the way, PERPETUALLY STUPID BC, still think the Cuba northern shoreline doesn't border the Gulf of Mexico???

Posted by: John D | December 19, 2007 11:03 AM
[/quote]

That was NEVER the point of the debate, Geographically Challenged Dumb Dumb Little Johnnie Dyslin, "the Joseph Stalin of Streamwood" - YOU SAID that Cuba WAS TOTALLY WITHIN the Gulf of Mexico.

Why are you trying to change the topic - because you finally grew a spine and figured out that YOU ARE WRONG?


"The truth is that you are closer to being a fascist than anyone else because of your intolerance for any idea other than those approved by your political ideologists."

"And then you wonder why I won’t join the “big tent” party of the Democrats. I won’t join because I would have to grin and bear the kind of crap you spew. Life is way too short for that."

You prefer the crap spewed more on your side of the fence. So much of a tolerant, fair minded or capable of independent thought group. Shall we start with questioning the patriotism of every American who disagrees, questioning military service of Americans who served who disagree, labeling dissent with the likes of traitors, calls for diplomacy met with terrorist lovers and dictator appeasers, equating every criticism of Israeli policy with anti-Semitism, labeling the whole anti-war movement as tin foil, media coverage of the unfavorable is labeled biased, critics of the War and the Administration are labeled unAmerican defeatists....tolerance, fair minded, independent thought means noting more than lock step. Something tells me that either side is capable in bringing about a fascist or a totalitarian state in their own way.

You might like to join John E's tent sometime(for tea). You both hate Celine Dion, and you both think Ron Paul is the only reasonable Republican--ding ding original thought (I know John E gets under your skin. It shows. Play nice. We need him to off set nut-bag John D.)


Yes, Driving By, I heard that too. Ron Paul also said he doesn't want the money of White Supremacists, and that he doesn't plan to support any of their views either.

See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gKXyBgr24c&feature=related

His theory for keeping the money is that he can do some good with it; but, on the other hand, the white supremacist can do some bad with it if he gave it back to him. He also raises the somewhat valid point that it is difficult to investigate all 60 to 100 thousand donators for their personal beliefs.

See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcLSLGXypMY

While I understand this thinking, I don't agree with it. I think it would be better for him to give the money back and make a positive statement that he doesn't stand for white supremacists or their ideas.

But, that's just me.


You will have a fascist State created in your own image as soon as all those intolerable ideas a swept away in favor of a single, socialist ideology which drives all of the ancient culture from the public square, and into the dark recesses. Hitler and Stalin believed the same would be true with their little utopias.
And then you wonder why I won’t join the “big tent” party of the Democrats. I won’t join because I would have to grin and bear the kind of crap you spew. Life is way too short for that.

Posted by: John W. | December 19, 2007 6:18 PM


"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross"

There's a very good reason why our forefathers wanted a seperation between church and state, John.
That should have been one of the first things you learned while you were getting your community college law degree.

They didn't want guys like W and Huckabee getting elected President and then spending the next 4-8 years beating everyone over the head with their version of religion.


Cross, Cross... So what!
It seems that freedom of religion applies to every religion except Christianity these days. If it isn’t one phobia it’s another.
Give us a break and Vote for the person you think is best for the Job.


The issue is now that he LIED about an obvious design element of the video... the shelves were designed, lit and filmed to look like a glowing white cross. I doubt a MINISTER would have missed that. The producers and he knew what they were doing.

SO WHY LIE ABOUT IT ?
We do not need another LIAR in the White House....

And DENYING A CROSS - no real Christian would do that.


bottom line - if you want a Christmas tree in your video card or a cross - fine. be up front and honest. there wouldn't be any crime. but when you try to back-pedal and/or cover-up what you are trying - watch out.
you can't pretend that a specially lighted bookshelf just happens to look like a cross.
the tight shot frames it perfectly between the Christmas tree and Huckabee and the the panning camera slowly/gently moves it in back of his head.
oh yes - i'm sure his production people were shocked, shocked i tell you, when people called them out on this.


also - am i the only one who thinks that maybe the 3 globes on the top left arm of the cross (bookshelf?) are intentionally placed there and are supposed to the represent the Holy Trinity (Father, Son, Holy Spirit)?

just something to think about


John E,

Evidently you missed the talking points re. separation of church and state.

There is no separation of church and state in America. It's all a liberal plot.


I note the cross rests on his 'right' side only, negating any left hand of God comparisons.


John E:

The First Amendment’s Establishment Clause is irrelevant to my objection to your earlier post. Your use of the term “Christofascist” in addressing Mark R. was an act of religious intolerance, pure and simple. Mark R., to whom you addressed this epithet, isn’t running for President. He merely protested the lack of tolerance by some in this blog toward Christianity’s symbols. So, whatever objection you might have to a President running the country like a theocracy, it provides no justification for the intolerance you displayed toward him.

Second, and contrary to your suggestion, the Establishment Clause does not bar anyone from holding public office simply for having strongly held religious convictions. History, itself, disproves your ideas. This country has had numerous, deeply religious political leaders, including many Presidents, some of whom had also served as preachers and Sunday School teachers. Not a small number of them were Democrats (including L.B.J. and Jimmy Carter). [I guess they must have belonged to the old, non-radicalized Democratic Party that is gone for good.] Yet, all of our religious Presidents – except one (Duh’bya) – had the good sense to keep religion and government disentangled. Duh’bya’s aberrant behavior is hardly a ground to categorically bar all other religious believers from public service given their track record.

Third, the expression, "When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross" – is just that: an expression. It’s one man’s opinion. Even accepting it at face value, it doesn’t support the notion that Christianity and fascism are at all compatible – and they are not. It merely states the idea that fascism will not succeed in America overtly and, therefore, would have to come dressed up in American culture to be accepted. That is to say, fascists would manipulate both patriotism and Christianity as a facade in order to succeed – and not the other way around.

You need to be aware that certain groups (that will remain unmentioned) are openly hostile to any form of religion, and seek to drive it out of the public marketplace of ideas. Driving religion out of the public marketplace was never the intent of the framers of the Constitution or the founders of our republic. We know they didn’t want to establish a state religion, but they also did not want a People devoid of religion. To the contrary, George Washington, in his “Farewell Address” stated that,

“Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect, that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.”

See http://www.earlyamerica.com/earlyamerica/milestones/farewell/text.html

Jefferson and Madison, the greatest early exponents of a “separation between church and state,” themselves, also attended voluntary religious services held in the chamber of the House of Representatives (which was a practice continued until after the Civil War).

Those who would re-write history and suggest that neither government nor society can co-exist with religion are the true danger, and the true neo-fascists against whom we should guard. They are the same people who seek to collectivize the minds and bodies of Americans into one large secular, socialist mass. They are the true fascists. And I fear you have been seduced by them.


Frank James:

Sometime yesterday, I posted two different posts, each in response to the most recent posts by "my own tent" and John E. Neither post contained anything offensive or rude, and they certainly contained nothing remotely “over the top.” Because my replies are not posted, the deprecating remarks aimed at me in the posts from “my own tent” and John E. are allowed to stand without challenge.

I can appreciate the fact that you have a lot of stuff to screen, and that some of the time your software doesn't work very well. If that's the reason why those two posts haven’t made it onto the board, then so be it.

If, on the other hand, you are exercising editorial control to shape the tenor of the blog and have censored my posts pursuant to that plan, I would appreciate knowing about it too. If you censor incoming posts in such a fashion, I will elect to boycott your articles from now on.


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