Republicans debate: Whose show was it, after all?: The Swamp
 
The Swamp
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Posted November 28, 2007 6:30 PM
The Swamp

Debatehall.jpg

They used to give away free copies of the evening Independent every day it rained here in St. Petersburg, Fla. The old paper is gone, but the storm clouds have gathered this evening over the bayfront Mahaffey Theater where the Republican candidates for president have come to debate in a two-hour show starting at 8 pm EST and sponsored by CNN and YouTube.


by Mark Silva

ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. -- "Welcome to the Ron Paul debate,'' reads the banner strung across an expressway leading into downtown St. Petersburg, where the Republican candidates for president assembled this evening for a nationally televised debate run by CNN.

But this really is the Rudy Giuliani debate -- played out in a state where Republican voters are heavily leaning toward the former mayor of New York, who still must strive to hold his claim to national front-runner's status among his party's candidates. It's a claim that will be quickly challenged in Iowa, New Hampshire and other primary contests in January, with Giuliani looking forward to a 20--plus state sweep of primaries on Feb. 5 to repair whatever damage is done.

And this is the Mitt Romney debate -- as the former governor of Massachusetts strives to hold an early advantage that massive early campaigning and costly television advertising has earned him in Iowa and New Hampshire.

And this is the John McCain debate -- as the senator from Arizona attempts to make good on the story line of that McCain-is-rebounding-story. McCain, who forfeited Iowa in his first bid for the White House in 2000 and has relatively little support there today, counts on New Hampshire to rekindle his campaign, just as the state's voters boosted him in '00.

This also is the Mike Huckabee debate -- as the former governor of Arkansas and Baptist minister appeals to those social conservatives within his party who ask themselves if they really want a Giuliani, who supports abortion rights, or a Romney, who once supported abortion rights but now opposess abortion, or a McCain, whose time may have come and gone.

And, OK, it's also the Ron Paul debate -- as the only anti-war candidate in the crowd attempts to parlay the support he has found on the Internet into a respectable ground campaign in the early primary states. And it's the Tom Tancredo bar-the-borders-debate, and the Duncan Hunter, revive-the-military-industrial complex debate

It is, after all, the big debate of the night. So join us here in the Spin Room before, during and after the two-hour show starting at 8 pm EST to tell us whose debate it really was.

The debate featuring video-questions from some of the participants who had submitted some 5,000 queries through YouTube, opened with fireworks over illegal immigration between former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani and former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney.

Ernie from Brooklyn had a question for the ex-mayor: “Under your administration as well as others, New York City was operated as a sanctuary city… will you continue to aid and abet the flight of illegal aliens into this country

“The reality is that New York City was not a sanctuary city,’’ Giuliani said. “New York City allowed the children of illegal immigrants to go to school… if we didn’t… we would have had 70,000 children on the streets…. We reported thousands and thousands… of names of illegal immigrants who committed crimes to the federal authorities… and they weren’t deported… If I were president of the United States, I could do something about that.’’

Was New York a sanctuary, moderator Anderson Cooper of CNN asked?

Romney: “Absolutely… The mayor… .brought a suit to actually maintain its sanctuary status… This happens to be a difference between Mayor Giuliani and myself and others on this stage as well… If you happen to be in this country in an undocumented status… ‘then we welcome you here’ – that’s the wrong attitude.’’

“Mitt generally criticizes people in a situation where he has substantially the worst record,’’replied Giuliani, citing six sanctuary citiees in Massachusetts – plus “a sanctuary mansion,’’ Romney’s own home, where illegal immigrants were being employed. “I would say he had sanctuary mansion, not just sanctuary city.’’

“Mayor, you know better than that,’’ Romney said.

“You had illegal immigrants at your mansion, did you not?’’ Giuliani asked.

“No,’’ Romney said – asking, if one hires a company to work on a home and hears foreign voices outside, is one to go out and challenge them?

“It just so happens that you have a special immigration problem up here that no one else has – you were employing illegal immigrants,’’ Giuliani said.

“Let me tell you what I did as governor – I said no to driver’s licenses for illegals,’’ Romney said.

Fred Thompson, former senator from Tennesee, said: “A nation that cannot maintain and defend its own borders will not remain a sovereign nation….’’

“As far as Mayor Giuliani is concerned,’’ Thompson said, “I am a little surprised at him saying that someone is responsible for everyone they hire.’’

“We can talk about that more,’’ Thompson said, without specifically naming the subject of his apparent allusion, Bernie Kerik, the former New York police commissioner whom Giuliani recommended to President Bush for homeland security secretary and recently faced federal indictment.

Giuliani took a pass on the passing shot at his friend, and said: “New York City was not a sanctuary city… The three exceptions were to allow children to go to school, to allow those illegal immigrants who were victims of crime… to report them… to allow emergency rooms’’ to treat illegal immigrants.

“We never proposed amnesty,’’ Sen. John McCain says. “This whole debate saddens me.’’

As president, he said, he will secure the borders and he will address the problem of illegal immigration in a comprehensive fashion.

* * *

Mike Huckabee, former governor of Arkansas, was asked by Ashley from San Antonio, Texas, about giving scholarships to illegal immigrant children. Would he support a law to give the same tuition breaks to military members, she asked?

“You’re a little misinformed,’’ Huckabee said. “We never passed a bill that gave special privileges to the children of illegal immigrants to go to college,’’ Huckabee said, saying that he wanted to give the children of immigrants the same opportunity for an “Academic Challenge Scholarship’’ that others had. “It said that, if you sat in our schools… and you became an A-plus student… and you had to be applying for citizenship… we wanted people to be taxpayers, not tax-takers… Finally, would we give that provision to the children of veterans personally?’’ – he said veterans have been poorly treated.

“I like Mike,’’ Romney said. “But he basically said that he fought for giving scholarships to illegal aliens.’’

Huckabee said: “I’m standing here tonight because I got an education… If I hadn’t gotten that education, I might be picking lettuce … In all due respect, we’re a better country than to punish children for what their parents did. We’re a better country than that.’’

“We’re not punishing children for what their parents did,’’ Romney said. “The question is, are we going to give taxpayer-funded benefits to kids who are here illegally?.... Are we going to say that kids who are here illegally are going to get a special deal?

* * *

Sarah from Scottdale, Pa., askes about controlling government spending.

McCain said: “I have a record of fighting against wasteful spending… As president of the United States, I’d take an old veto pen that Ronald Reagan gave me, and I’d veto every piece of pork-barrel spending that came across my desk.’’

Romney: “The senator is absolutely right. … We’re going to have to fundamentally go at something like our entitlements, and say we’re going to have to reform those…’’ And put a cap on discretionary spending.

Giuliani proposed: “Across the board spending cuts… We should commit not to rehire half the civilian work force that retires in the next ten years.. and we should look at those programs… the 3 percent of programs that OMB (Office of Management and Budget_ finds every year is failing. They should be eliminated.’’

Emily from Los Angeles also asked about spending: She challenged them to name the top three programs you would decrease.

“It’s a target-rich environment,’’ said Fred Thompson. “The OMB has come out with a list of 100 programs.. I would take every 100 of them.’’

Ron Paul, congressman from Texas, was pressed about naming three programs.

“I would like to,’’ replied Paul, “such as the Department of Education, Department of Energy, the Department of Homeland Security is the biggest bureaucracy we’ve ever had. ‘’

Huckabee said: “The first thing I’d get rid of is the Internal Revenue Service.’’

They were asked about replacing the federal income tax with a national sales tax.

“I do not’’ favor that, McCain said. “Obviously, we need to have a fairer, simpler tax code…. If Congress cant fix the tax code, give me the job, I’ll fix it.’’

* * *

McCain then laced into Paul for calling for a withdrawal of troops from Iraq.

“That kind of isolationism, sir, is what caused World War II,’’ McCain said. “We allowed Hitler to come to power with that kind of isolationism.’’

Paul replied: “The real question you have to ask is, why do I get the most money from active-duty officers, military… What John is saying is totally distorted. He doesn’t understand the difference between non-intervention and isolationism.’’

* * *

Heading into a commercial break, CNN showed a Thompson-sponored campaign ad portraying a pro-abortion rights Romney and a then-Gov. Huckabee talking about accepting any tax that state lawmakers wanted.

“What’s up with that?’’ moderator Anderson Cooper asked.

“I wanted to give my buddies there a little extra air time,’’ Thompson replied. “”What do you mean what’s up with it – these are their words.’’

“I was wrong…’’ Romney said. “On abortion, I was wrong… I changed my mind.’’

Huckabee said he had been misconstrued, but took the attack as a compliment.

“Like my old pastor used to say,’’ said Huckabee, a Baptist minister. “When they’re kicking you in the rear, it just proves you’re out front.’’

* * *

They were asked about their stances on gun control, by a man cocking a weapon.

“The mayor has supported a wide array of gun-control laws,’’ Thompson said of Giuliani.

“Some of these gun laws do not make a city a safer city,’’ Giuliani said. “The things we did in New York indisputably made New York a safer city… The Second Amendment clearly gives you the right to carry and bear arms… That protection comes from the Constitution, not just the president.’’

Another man asked them about their gun collections.

Thompson said: “I own a couple of guns, but I’m not going to tell you what they are or where they are.’’

McCain, a former prisoner-of-war in Vietnam: “For a long time, I used a lot of guns, including carrying a .45 flying as a pilot over Vietnam… I know how to use guns. I don’t own one now.’’

“I have two guns in my home,’’ Romney said. “They are owned by my son Josh.’’

* * *

On abortion, Giuliani was asked if he would sign a federal ban on abortions if Congress passed it.

“I probably would not sign it,'' he said. "I would leave it to the states to make that decision.’’

“I think you should have parental consent. I think we should have access to adoptions.. but ultimately

Romney: “I agree with Sen. Thompson. We should overturn Roe v. Wade… I’d be delighted to sign that bill. But that’s not where we are right now. That’s not where America is.’’ We have to overturn Roe v. Wade, he said of the Supreme Court ruling that legalized abortion.

* * *

They faced a question on the death penalty: “What would Jesus do?’’

Huckabee: “I’m the only one on this stage that had to do it… It was the toughest decision I’ve ever made.’’

“I believe there is a place for a death penalty. Some crimes are so heinous, so horrible…

But, the former governor said: “Jesus was smarter than to ever run for public office.’’

* * *

They were asked if they believe every word in the Bible.

“Well…’’ Giuliani replied.

“Let me help you out here, mayor on this one,’’ said Huckabee, a Baptist minister.

“The reality is, I believe it, but I don’t believe it… in every respect,'' Giuliani said. "There are parts of the Bible that are allegorical… I don’t believe everything in the literal sense of Jonah being in the belly of the whale.’’

“I believe the Bible is the word of God,’’ said Romney, who has faced questions from evangelical voters because of his own faith in the Mormon religion -- and pressed if he believes every word, he said: “I read the Bible, and I believe the Bible is the word of God.’’

“The Bible is exactly what it is. It’s the word of revelation to us from God himself,’’ Huckabee said. “Nobody believes that any of us should go pluck out our eye… The Bible is allegorical.’’

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Comments

The real question is will the "debate winner" be published, down played or not published at all.
Seems in the LAST 3 Republican debates Ron Paul won them all according to the hosts own polls...yet it was downplayed or denied.
Gotta love that "fair and balanced" reporting!

So if by some chance Ron Paul doesn't win this debate (he probably will win) will this "news" be published as a victory for
a Mitt Romney, Huckabee, or McCain et al?

Does anybody in the main stream media have any gonads or are you all
sheep? Just thought I'd ask...


Millions of supporters and the only one big media seems to care about is some brothel owner in NV.

Strange that the Heidi Fliess endorsement of Hillary didn't get this kind of air.

I'm hoping for a fair debate for ALL of the candidates as devoid of CNN bias as possible.

In other words, I hope it's nothing like the CNN Hillary Debate Show a couple of weeks ago. It must be nice to be pals with media moguls...

Perhaps I'll be pleasantly surprised?


"Revive the military industrial complex" -- Are you kidding me? Are you implying that it has gone someplace? Died away? It's been here, and it's certainly here now.


I am in St. Petersburg, Fla. There were many more signs supporting Ron Paul than just the one mentioned in this article. As an observer with no axe to grind, I would have to say Ron Paul has the most visible support here.


This IS the Ron Paul Debate.

Vote Hope. Vote Dr. Ron Paul.


Ron Paul gets the backing of brothel owners?!!!??
I thought he was a Libertarian not a Libertine!

I am aware of his signing off on racist comments by his staffers who wrote his newsletter, but this..THIS! is too much for even me to stomach. Sorry, Ron Paul, there is something about you that just doesnt make for Presidential timber


Of course the media will bury Ron Paul's victory as it always does. In case you didn't notice, the media has a pretty clear agenda in supporting the military industrial complex. They've been trumpeting the glorious wars in Iraq, the Gulf, Afghanistan for how many years now?


Well well well, it looks like we have another Republican pat each other on the back and agree with each other session tonight...I mean debate.

Here's my prediction:

Rudolph Giuliani - will say "9/11" and "Islamofascism" at least 10 times.

Mitty Romney - will say "Double Guantanimo" and "Islamofascism" at least 5 times.

All of the Wingnuts will tell us how they can beat Hillary while at the same time they won't be able to tell us exactly why we should vote for any of them for President for any other reason than that...


The Republicans have a new 30-second ad they're going to be running soon:

"We make you feel scared, angry, suspicious and alone. That's conservative. That's you. Or you'll die!"
Full GOP ad here:
http://www.swfup.com/uploads/swf-59662.swf


Its getting to be crunchtime now. Now much time left until the primaries start rolling around. Here is another pleading to all those sitting on the fence. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, support Ron Paul.

Forget about all the noise regarding brothels, nazis etc. Even if the accusations weren't wildly absurd we still have bigger fish to fry. The problems we face are not small. This is unlike any other period in American history. Much of our country is being sold off to Middle Eastern entities and the Chinese govt. Dubai just had to bail out Citibank. They now own another 5%. A communist country bought a chunk of Bears Stearns a capitalistic endeavor if there ever was one.
Our dollar has lost 30% of its value in TWO YEARS.
Energy, Like Food Types and Housing are not included in inflation reports but if they were (like they used to) we would be sitting at near 18% inflation rate, PER YEAR. This is why we all somehow feel it in the pocket book but are told the economy is good because Wall Street is still making profits.
The Comptroller of the United States has gone on a road tour warning of potential bankruptcy for this country. He is the top financial overseer for our government. I wish this was just alarming rhetoric but it is what is happening in the here and now. We can overcome these obstacles. Here is your 4 step program.

1)Find out for yourself. Here are a few homework assignments. How much do we really owe and who do we owe it to? How many companies and parts of companies are owned by foreign investors? How much has been purchased recently? How big is our military now compared to 10,20,30,50 years ago? Why is it so small? Will they start drafting our kids? How is Federal Reserve set up and how does it work really? How is inflation reported? Did it ever change? Why? What is happening to the middle class?
2)Ask yourself how this affects you. Ask yourelf how this affects your kids. What will life be like for them?
3)After doing 1 and 2 you feel a little sheepish don't worry we were all busy buying nice vacations and SUVS with our home equity while our officials were busy borrowing and borrowing putting our kids into potential serfdom.
4)Check out all the candidates again and see if you think Ron Paul is still a kooky.


A preview of tonight's debate.

When asked, Romney said a Muslim in his cabinet would not be justified because of their relatively small representation of the U.S. population (there are 7 million Muslims in U.S).

Wonder how many Mormons would be on his cabinet?(there are nearly 6 million Mormons in the U.S.

John D., who equates all Muslims with terrorist would say: "No sir, no head-choppers in my cabinet."

Giuliani:Noun, verb, 9-11

Huckabee: "Our Favorite Right-Wing Nut Job":

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/17324246/matt_taibbi_on_mike_huckabee_our_favorite_rightwing_nut_job

McCain: You can safely stroll through an Iraqi market now, really.


The eight Republican presidential hopefuls are squaring off in a challenge unlike anything they've faced as they step onto the stage for their party's first CNN/YouTube debate Wednesday in St. Petersburg, Florida. GOP hopefuls traded sharp jabs over immigration, taxes, and other to differentiate themselves.

Who won the CNN Youtube Republican Debate in Florida?

http://www.youpolls.com/details.asp?pid=1119

.


The eight Republican presidential hopefuls are squaring off in a challenge unlike anything they've faced as they step onto the stage for their party's first CNN/YouTube debate Wednesday in St. Petersburg, Florida. GOP hopefuls traded sharp jabs over immigration, taxes, and other to differentiate themselves.

Who won the CNN Youtube Republican Debate in Florida?

http://www.youpolls.com/details.asp?pid=1119

.


Grandpa Fred really looks over-matched in tonight's debate, so far, anyway. He sounds intelligent when he's regurgitating a script on television, but seems almost incoherent in tonight's debate. His inability to articulate is surpassed only by the current mangler-in-chief. Of course, that never stopped old Dubya, he can stammer and stutter with the best of them.


Now really do you want to throw your vote away on Ron Paul. He will never win. I support either Mike Hukabee because he does tell it like it is. I do not want amenesty for anyone in this country. close the borders now. North and South. I still like John McClain. He has walked the talk. I personally think all the military in korea, japan and germany should be reallocated to the eastern part of Europe and the middle east,as that is where the real trouble is located. Putnin and Iranian co-conspirator and their chimp Mr Chavez are going to be more trouble down the road.


Oh dt, you're such a slice. No, I do not equate all Muslims with terrorists.

Let's put it this way, dt, twice in my life I have eaten dinner with at least to Turkish-Americans with others from my church. Can you say the same?
Have you worked with Muslims, dt? I have. Got along very well with them too.

Do I believe we should treat head-chopping terrorists with sugar and spice? No.

Are all Muslims terrorists? No. Seems to me I have been pretty consistent in saying one reason I believe we need to stay in Iraq and Afghanistan is so the rational and moderate elements of the Muslim world can have a chance.

Funny, though today that Hamas and Iran said they will do whatever it takes to scuttle any peace efforts between the Israelis and Palestinians. Also, funny that the Swamp has not covered that.

You see, dt, I am for those in the Middle East who are for peace and against terrorism and against those who are for terrorism.


Ron Paul has my vote. Reduce the size of government. Abolish the Federal Reserve. Restore the constitution. Protect our 2nd amendment right. Bring our troops home. Restore fiscal displine.


Mike Huckabee is the best candidate. He has a clear conservative vision for America's future. I do not want Rudy as our next president. He is far too moderate for most conservatives.


The brothel endorsement was fake.


HDNet Dec 1 DNC debate (Sat 7:30pm ET).
- all eight -

gravel kucinich paul nader


John D, you can count the number of times you had dinner with Turkish Americans in your entire life time. I don't know whether the fact you can recall how many times in your life time is a good thing or a bad thing. Especially since the times you can recall can be counted on one hand.

You have worked with Muslims. Hey I took a cab the other day, the guy was Muslim. Great man. I gave a nice tip. Now I will resume to our regular scheduled programing -- endorsing Rudy who thinks it is of paramount importance we identify the threat as Islamic Terrorism; it's not enough to say terrorism (broad that includes it) or Radical Islamic Terrorism (that is specific to it), but Islamic Terrorism (neither there neither here).

Let's see, that's okay because the majority of terrorist are Muslims, even though the majority of Muslims that make up terrorists are the minority within the Muslim community. Talk about sending mixed messages.

I don't know how many dinner dates it will take with your Turkish-American friends and co-workers to explain your feelings on torturing Muslims by the US, and why torture is not okay by Muslims in their own country. More mixed messages.

PS. There is room between sugar and spice and everything nice and outright torture(which you condone). Preferable somewhere after sugar and spice and stopping short of inhumane treatment. Like usual you fail to acknowledge that and over exaggerate implying if it's not one it must be the other.

"You see, dt, I am for those in the Middle East who are for peace and against terrorism and against those who are for terrorism." BTW you might want to expand on that fountain of Muslim friends in your life. Just in case you are only hearing what you want to hear. Not all Muslims are radicals, but not all moderates feel the same about the US. In some cases we might be turning those moderates away--when we use the word Muslim Terrorists, when you (like you and only you) actually don't mind torture (which will most likely be used on Muslims), when we over stay our welcome in their country, and when we prop up a government for too long so the government has all the time in the world to get in touch with their constituency in Iraq.

"Can you say the same?"
I hope dt can. As big as the Muslim population is, I don't know what makes you think that the likelihood of someone spending time with a Muslim is soo unlikely. You are just the luckiest person on earth to have that opportunity. We await our turn.


It's now been admitted that the gay retired general who got so much question time for his "gays in the military" sermon is a member of Hillary's gay/lesbian/transgender task force.

Anderson Cooper, himself gay, has tried to claim that he didn't know the general was connected to Hillary's campaign (and before that, to John Kerry's campaign), and that if he had known, the Clinton connection would have been disclosed. Yeah....
A 10-second google search would have turned up this fact, and the fact that the questioner has been on tv before and been written up in the NY Times.

They don't call CNN the Clinton News Network for nothing.


CNN had a biased approach. The top question that people voted for of the 5000 youtube videos entered didn''t even make it on the show. Let alone the fact that Romney was asked to feild the majority of the questions asked. Upon where Ron Paul was asked maybe four in a two hour period. Main Stream Media needs to wake up and quit lying. Ron Paul has a wide array of supporters. All of his money is grassroots and all his supporters are America''s New Voice. See for yourself.
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/


I just want to clarify one of your so-called quotes here.

From the official transcript:

"Cooper: Congressman Paul, the question was three programs.

Can you name three?

I would like to change Washington, and we could by cutting three programs, such as the Department of Education -- Ronald Reagan used to talk about that -- Department of Energy, Department of Homeland Security is the biggest bureaucracy we ever had.

(Applause)"


The pasty white man on the stage definitely won tonights Republic Party debate.

*Here's an average question and answer from the CNN "debate":

CNN: Do you like Kittens or Puppies?

Republican Candidate Answer: Whichever one isn't a Muslim. But we should leave nuclear weapons and torture on the table. I am not gay.


They don't call CNN the Clinton News Network for nothing.

Posted by: bruce | November 29, 2007 12:36 AM

They don't call Bruce the propaganda minister for nothing either.


Just watched the GMA coverage of the debate last night. No mention of Ron Paul. No image. No nothing.

Every other candidate was mentioned.

Keep ignoring him media. It won't matter. This too will backfire.

www.ronpaul2008.com


Ron Paul. How can any Republican refuse? The more war, more spending mantra does not a Republican make. The Party is dead. Ron Paul is a resusitation.


The CNN "debate" wasn't about the Republicans. It was about how Anderson Cooper and the Democrats at CNN fraudulently tried to shape the debate using phony, planted questions.


Today, Brucebot's propaganda line is that the poor Republicans should never be questioned by anyone but those who are already true believers.

Just remember this the next time this same troglodyte suggests that the Democrats are wussies for not debating on Fox News or allowing their debate to be moderated by Ann Coulter.

Waaaaa!! Poor poor Republicans!!! Why can't they just lob softballs at them all day so they can pander to the 30% of America they seek to represent?

For an alternative analysis, here is what liberals say about the CNN Debate: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marty-kaplan/cnn-flack-sez-im-pretty_b_74505.html


Ron Paul can win, and he is the only one who can win.


Since CNN and other major TV networks are owned by huge corporations, the "news" and commentary they publish is simply propaganda promoting those who will enhance their future bottom lines. Why should they report news about Ron Paul and the widespread support he enjoys? They are not in the truth business. They are in the propaganda business.


RON PAUL FEAR AND LOATHING

To better understand why the Ron Paul Rebellion is regarded with such great fear and loathing, Google:

1. Human Events Ron Paul Interview
2. PBS Ron Paul Interview

To see how the unbiased People of World regard Ron Paul, Google: Who Would the World Elect


Sorry, this google-college-kid-internet-questions-for -the-debate crap has got to go. Not that Andy Cooper and the rest of the CNN liberals would have done any different but, my God folks... can you be a little less obvious? It seemed the 'debate' was geared toward moving Giuliani to the front of the pack. Mitt looked like a deer in the headlights. Trying to make Ron Paul look like the 'choice of the right wing conspiracy theorists' failed miserably in my mind. He gets the NAFTA Super Highway question... come on guys.. you can do better than that.
Anyway, not a real debate. I'm more centered on Paul now. The rest look like a bunch of talking heads. Paul is the only real-deal in the pack.


Isolationism caused the rise of Hitler and World War 2? First off, allow me and Dr. Paul himself to point out that his values are not that of an isolationist, and he feels that our involvement in WWII was just; as it was declared by congress, unlike the war we're in now.
The rise of Hitler was a result of the heavy sanctions that we put on Germany after World War 1. It was our "Interventionist" policies that alienated the Germans, and allowed Hitler to take over, essentially, as an answer to their prayers throughout the 1930's. Right now, we are repeating history in the Middle East. We need to stop providing them with an enemy to attack. For the Nazis, it was the Jews. For the Muslim extremists, the enemy is us, the Americans that are trampling all over their lands so that we can control their flow of oil.
We need to give their countries back to them. Our occupation there is wrong and unconstitutional.

Educate yourselves. McCain is committing a number of fallacies in his attack on Ron Paul. One only needs to look at the history of Germany to see that.

Check out an honest and highly educated man at:
ronpaul2008.com


Most Startling Admission in the CNN YouTube Presidential Debates

30 seconds says it all: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mALpnSTGAQs


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