Giuliani, Clinton find agreement: Obama 'naive'

Anyone who would actually vote for Rudy Ghouliani would not only have to be "naive", they would need to have their head examined
http://therealrudy.org/radios

Rudy The Lizard King, is starting to look like a pattern liar.

Check this out;

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/02/opinion/02krugman.html?_r=1&ref=opinion&oref=slogin

Once America figures out Rudy's bit they will drop him faster than a dog turd at a Easter egg hunt.

Well let's see...Obama naive on foreign policy. There is a shocker. So Obama's spokesman says:
"It's time for tough and direct diplomacy with Iran..." I can't help but wonder if he means like that really tough diplomacy the U.N. used against Iran, or Iraq for that matter. Wake up!

Has Obama ever read a history book or didn't they have them in his Muslim school? He should read what happened to Edvard Benes', president of Czechoslovakia, when he went to negotiate with Hitler. And what happened to Neville Chamberlain after he came back from being cleaned out by Hitler and proclaiming "peace for our time." Both ended up on the ash heap of history. And if Iran has an atomic bomb, don't think Obama would be negotiating from strength. For a guy whose only negotiating experience is trying to bargain down the car dealer, Obama is treading in deep water.

I wonder if Barack remembers that the E.U. had direct talks (for three years)with the Iranian government that went absolutely no where.
But,with his Muslim sounding name,he has an edge.

Paulo

Karl,
You seem to read history, but the understanding part is what you are lacking. The comparison between the juggernaut that was Germany and a third world country Iran is laughable. Germany was the MOST advanced country and militarily the strongest country in the world. Iran nearly lost a war with Iraq(a pitiful country). Iran doesn't even have spare parts for its civilian aircrafts..and yet you compare them to pre-WW2 Germany...are you serious?

The ONLY reason Iran is even an issue is because it stands in the way of Israel's long term goals. Israel's goal of shattering these Arab and Persian countries into small ethnic countries was the reason for the Iraq invasion... with an eye on Iran every step of the way. I just wish the Israelis could fight their own wars...but when you have the most powerful lobby.. you tend to get your way.

Don't you worry about Obama. Obama has courted the AIPAC money and clout. He isn't a stupid politician. If he was serious with negotiating Iran, the negative publicity he will receive will be breathtaking. What Obama is doing is primary politics...plain and simple.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Karl, are you actually equating America, the World's only super power, to pre-war Czech, and to pre-war France. It is your knowledge of history that is lacking. Please inform yourself about the facts before you try to engage in adult conversations.

Here is an Oct 12 quote showing Hillary/Bills flip flop on this critical matter:
Standing with him on stage, Clinton said she would first send envoys to test the waters and called Obama's position irresponsible and naive.

But asked about it Thursday by a voter, the New York senator said twice that she, too, would negotiate with Iran "with no conditions."

"I would engage in negotiations with Iran, with no conditions, because we don't really understand how Iran works. We think we do, from the outside, but I think that is misleading," she said at an apple orchard.

So who is naive? Who is so stupid that she cannot be consistent in the expression of her ideas?

Don Giuliani, the esteemed mayor of America and King of 911, and Hillary/Bill are parroting one another and are both wrong. The Iran problem is that America went so long without attempting any kind of dialog with that country at a time when their government was ruled by moderates, that it would seem awkward for this government to attempt to talk to them. A new, Obama led government will be in a better position to exact the kind of deals that end their supposed pursuit of nuke weapons, and bring stability to the region.

Beg? Giullani and Clinton should take some lessons from dog and horse trainers...or school teachers for that matter. You give them a choice, they chose, and enjoy (or suffer) the consequences of their choices. Maybe if we (the US) spent more time studying our psyche books instead of pounding our chests as the playground bullies, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in.

sahmadi said:
"The ONLY reason Iran is even an issue is because it stands in the way of Israel's long term goals. Israel's goal of shattering these Arab and Persian countries into small ethnic countries was the reason for the Iraq invasion... with an eye on Iran every step of the way. I just wish the Israelis could fight their own wars...but when you have the most powerful lobby.. you tend to get your way."

That is absurd. You better re-check your history. Israel fought it's
own war" for survival in 1948 when 5 Arab countries invaded in an attempt to wipe them out; they lost 1/3 of their population. Consider the battles fought in 1967 and 1973. The preemptive strike Israel made against the Al Taiwath site in 1981 was to prevent Hussein from gaining a nuke (fact). When you are a tiny country surrounded by countries that refuse your right to exsistence, deny the holocust, and pledge to destroy you by direct means (invasion) or indirect means (thru the use of terrorist organizations like Hezbollah and Hamas) you would be an idiot to ignore that threat. The invasions of Iraq had NOTHING to do with this; Hussein invaded and occuppied Kuwait. He murdered hundreds of thousands (mostly Kurds and Shiites), violated the cease-fire agreement, corrupted the UN "Food for Oil" program, threw out the weapons inspectors, and even hatched an assassination plot against Bush Sr. What part of these facts are you completely missing?

Emerson, don't be so quick to paint Israel with a holy brush. The Israelis along with America were the only countries that would not sanction the apartheid govt in S Africa at a time when the people there were suffering from brutality. Israel was the chief arms supplier to that brutal regime. Their complicity in the blood diamond business, along with belgium is far from being a secret, although it is low key.

Old Jewish Proverb;

'Better to have a wise enemy than a foolish friend.'

What are you to do when a country kidnaps your negotiators (diplomats)? Why would anyone change anything without worry of retaliation?
He walked out of the Iraq Study Group? PLEASE PLEASE DEAR GOD SAY ITS NOT SO!

In response to Mr. Bolen 11:58 PM:

I don't understand your point. Israel has issues...just like all the other countries in the world. What does Israel's issues have anything to do with our foreign policy? Are we Israel's mercenaries or to put it more aptly proxy? Israel has an arsenal of 200 nukes and the most advanced military in that region...do you honestly think that the Iranians are not aware of this. We already give Israel billions of dollars in aid and military grants. Can they not defend themselves?

How is Iran a threat to us? They neither have the economy nor the military to win a battle let alone a war? Explain to me this "crisis" or "showdown" with Iran. Why this urgency to go to war?

Iraq was a war fought not over oil but Israel...as Philip Zelikow candidly expressed:
"[Then there is] the unstated threat. And here I criticise the [Bush] administration a little, because the argument that they make over and over again is that this is about a threat to the United States. And then everybody says: 'Show me an imminent threat from Iraq to America. Show me, why would Iraq attack America or use nuclear weapons against us?' So I'll tell you what I think the real threat is, and actually has been since 1990. It's the threat against Israel. And this is the threat that dare not speak its name, because the Europeans don't care deeply about that threat, I will tell you frankly. And the American government doesn't want to lean too hard on it rhetorically, because it's not a popular sell."

Iran is a threat to Israel's hegemony...Iran is not a threat to us. I hope you don't seriously think that Israel's interests coincide with our interests. Why must Americans shed their blood for Israel's security?

"Germany was the MOST advanced country and militarily the strongest country in the world"

Gee, how did that happen with all those tough League of Nation sanctions???

Actually, they were not. Had ANYONE confronted Hitler militarily early on, we may have been able to avoid war with Germany.

Read Albert Spears memoirs. Hitler was laughing at the appeasers and League of Nations' sanctions.

When he "annexed" the Alsace-Lorraine region prior to WW2, he was terrified that someone would drive them out militarily because he knew they were weak.

He was shocked and amazed no one did. Also, the handing over of the Sudatenland gave his armies a clear shot at Poland and on to Russia with less geographic barriers.
His game of chicken worked in the short term.

Karl isn't comparing the countries of the time. He is comparing the "negotiating" that Obama seems to think will work. I think the anology is a good one.