Kucinich's UFO and that question of mental health: The Swamp
The Swamp
Posted October 31, 2007 11:08 AM
The Swamp

Rep. Dennis Kucinich amuses Sen. Barack Obama during the presidential debate at Drexel University in Philadelphia (Photo by Stan Honda/AFP/Getty Images)

by Mark Silva

A faithful reader of The Swamp found some irony and amusement in two headlines that appeared here yesterday: "Kucinich calls Bush's mental health into question'' and "Kucinich: 'I did' see a UFO.''

Kucinch, a congressman from Ohio, was asked during last night's debate of the Democratic candidates for president if he had seen a UFO.

The "serious" question was prompted by actress Shirley MacLaine's new book, in which she writes that Kucinich had spotted a UFO over her home in Washington state and "found the encounter extremely moving... It was a triangular craft silent and hovering,'' she wrote, and Kucinich "felt a connection'' in his heart and "heard direction'' in his mind.

"I did,''' Kucinich said to the question of whether he had seen a UFO.

As for "the rest of the account,'' he said, "I didn't.

"It's unidentified. I saw something,'' he said. "Also, you have to keep in mind that more -- that Jimmy Carter saw a UFO -- and also that more people in this country have seen UFOs than, I think, approve of George Bush's presidency.''

Moderator Tim Russert reminded the candidate that polls show just 14 percent of Americans say they have seen UFOs -- (about half the number that approve of the president's job approval in most recent polling.)

Earlier in the day, Kucinich had told the editors of the Philadelphia Inquirer that Bush's recent comments about World War III -- that those who are interested in averting it also should be interested in keeping nuclear weapons out of Iran -- call his mental health into question.

You cannot be a president of the United States who's wanton in his expression of violence," Kucinich said. "There's a lot of people who need care. He might be one of them. If there isn't something wrong with him, then there's something wrong with us. This, to me, is a very serious question."

Russert said the UFO question was serious, too. See the answer:

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UFO doesn't mean alien ship. It just means that it is unidentified flying object.

UFO can be secret military planes, and experiments that are classified to the public.

UFO can be people on earth seeing from afar the effect of space debris such as old sattelites, military star war experiments, ect. . .

China recently shot down a sattelite. From the ground, you will be seeing bright light or flash if the sky is clear enough.

The rationality of a person who claims to see a UFO vs. someone threatening to initiate WWIII is not comparable. Here's a question: If Putin offered some "tough talk" using WWIII in his speech, how would we feel about that?

You cannot be a president of the United States who's wanton in his expression of violence," Kucinich told the newspaper. "There's a lot of people who need care. He might be one of them. If there isn't something wrong with him, then there's something wrong with us. This, to me, is a very serious question."

He's got a point. But then again we already knew this.

It seems to be agreed that Dennis is a bit of a nut. But, every once in a while he makes a valid and lucid point. The "Bush might just be nuts" comment is certainly one of them.

Forget the UFO's. You know he's crazy when he thinks that redhead he's "married" to really, really loves him.

Lou, Kucinich described it as a "moving experience". Based on that description, I doubt he thought he was looking at a fallen satellite.

To many, alcoholism is a mental illness. We all know Bush is an alcoholic, and he never had treatment. He said he read the bible and was cured, but I don't think alcoholics are cured that easily. Remember when he misbuttoned his shirt at the Katrina speech? And when he supposedly choked on a pretzel and hit his head? And all those memory lapses? I think he's off the wagon.

I actually voted for Denny once, in the '04 primary.

But not to worry. No vote was ever more pointless, symbolic, marginalized, and or rendered meaningless.

That's the way American 'democracy' works. It's due to our 'republican' form of democracy.

Hey, I called Dennis's headquarters and this was on the machine;

Well, I dreamed I saw the knights
In armor coming,
Saying something about a queen.
There were peasants singing and
Drummers drumming
And the archer split the tree.
There was a fanfare blowing
To the sun
That was floating on the breeze.
Look at Mother Nature on the run
In the twenty first century.
Look at Mother Nature on the run
In the nineteen seventies.♬

I was lying in a burned out basement
With the full moon in my eyes.
I was hoping for replacement
When the sun burst thru the sky.
There was a band playing in my head
And I felt like getting high.
I was thinking about what a
Friend had said
I was hoping it was a lie.
Thinking about what a
Friend had said
I was hoping it was a lie.

Well, I dreamed I saw the silver
Space ships flying
In the yellow haze of the sun,
There were children crying
And colors flying♪
All around the chosen ones.
All in a dream, all in a dream
The loading had begun.
They were flying Mother Nature's
Silver seed to a new home in the sun.
Flying Mother Nature's
Silver seed to a new home.♬

Maybe Dennis is on to something!!

NASA spends millions searching. Dennis speaks the truth.

The term, "UFO" (although used earlier) was borne (officially) by the Air Force in 1952; former Capt. Edward Ruppelt (Project Blue Book) claims credit for inserting it into the "military "lexicon."

Separately the poll mentioned was conducted by "The Associated Press and Ipsos" and was mixed in with questions concerning witchcraft, ghosts, ESP etc.; undoubtedly the "UFO question" was erroneously framed inferring an "alien craft" consequently, the result of "14%" is of people who saw what they believed to be a craft of "unearthly origin." Had the question been, "have you ever seen anything flying that you couldn't identify (UFO), then the numbers would have been considerably higher.

Sadly the question posed by Russert was met with the usual giggles, guffaws and rib-pokes. In my view a unique opportunity was missed in regards to this world-wide ongoing phenomenon.

Frank Warren
Knowledge is Power

I question Bush's sanity and the sanity of anyone who supports him.

Herbie H. --

Kucinich DID NOT describe his supposed sighting as a "moving experience". Shirley Maclaine claimed that he said that, and he denied her claim. He only admitted that he saw SOMETHING , and made no claims at all about what he thought it was.

I have more faith in Kucinich's UFO than I do in Bush's WMD's.

"To many, alcoholism is a mental illness. We all know Bush is an alcoholic, and he never had treatment. He said he read the bible and was cured, but I don't think alcoholics are cured that easily. Remember when he misbuttoned his shirt at the Katrina speech? And when he supposedly choked on a pretzel and hit his head? And all those memory lapses? I think he's off the wagon." "Paul"

As someone who has had his battle with his demons...I'll tell you, if he was back on the stuff you'd know it. If you're bad enough to have to quit, when you go back "out there" you can't cover it up. If I did, I might as well walk around with a sign around my neck that said "I'm drunk"

So keep your opinions about something you know about, brainiac.

"To many, alcoholism is a mental illness. We all know Bush is an alcoholic, and he never had treatment. He said he read the bible and was cured, but I don't think alcoholics are cured that easily. Remember when he misbuttoned his shirt at the Katrina speech? And when he supposedly choked on a pretzel and hit his head? And all those memory lapses? I think he's off the wagon." "Paul"

As someone who has had his battle with his demons...I'll tell you, if he was back on the stuff you'd know it. If you're bad enough to have to quit, when you go back "out there" you can't cover it up. If I did, I might as well walk around with a sign around my neck that said "I'm drunk"

So keep your opinions about something you know about, brainiac.

At least Kucinich had the (guts) to admit to the UFO siting. None of the other 'idiots' would dare be honest with the public lest they might lose votes.

No, Tim, the UFO question was not a serious question, and you know it.
I wish we could all get over the little details like he is a vegan and his wife is taller than he is, and she has a pierced tongue.
If the candidates were analyzed according to their views on the issues, Dennis would be kicking butt.

Kucinich may not have seen a UFO but he nailed it when questioned the state of the Republican Commander Guy's mental health.

"Impeach The Cheerleader Save The World"

Actually, I question the sanity of anyone who thinks this is an important issue.

State Rep. Richard Curtis, R-La Center, admitted to having sex with a man he met at an adult video store in Spokane last week, according to a police report released Tuesday afternoon.

The police report offers a far different version of events from the brief account Curtis gave Monday to The Columbian, one that seems likely to threaten Curtis' political future.

The report is filled with graphic details of an encounter that began at a porn store on a Spokane Valley strip and concluded miles away in Curtis' room at the city's poshest hotel.

The police report contains an account of how Curtis allegedly donned women's clothing, red stockings and a black sequined lingerie top before engaging in a sex act at the store. He then continued to wear them throughout the night under his clothing, the report says.

Spokane police have finished their investigation and referred the case to prosecutors for possible filing of extortion charges against Cody M. Castagna.

Castagna is a 26-year-old waiter from the Spokane area who allegedly tried to blackmail Curtis for $1,000 and threatened to reveal his "gay lifestyle" to the lawmaker's wife if he did not pay.

Curtis, 48, is married and has two daughters. The two-term legislator and retired fire department captain was in Spokane last week for a retreat with other Republican lawmakers in preparation for the 2008 Legislature.

During a brief phone interview with Columbian Editor Lou Brancaccio on Monday afternoon, Curtis said he did not have sex with the man and is not gay.

According to the police report, Curtis offered to pay $1,000 to have unprotected sex with Castagna.

"I feel that, honestly, I'm being wrongly accused and that (Curtis) is using his power to take it off of him and put it on me," Castagna said during a press conference Tuesday. "He has completely changed what actually happened and turned it around for his favor."

"He didn't make any threats against this guy (Curtis)," added Castanga's attorney, David Partovi. "This is an extremely low-level situation that's being blown out of proportion by somebody who is trying to save themselves."

Curtis did not return calls seeking comment Tuesday. He initially told police that he did not have sex with the man but later recanted, according to the police report. He also told police that he thought he might have been given some type of drug because his memory of the evening was hazy, the report says.

The report says that after the two men had sex, Castagna left the hotel room with Curtis' wallet. Curtis agreed to give the man $200, which he left at his hotel's desk, only to be confronted with a demand for an additional $800, the report says.

Spokane Police Detective Tim Madsen wrote in his report that Curtis wanted to keep the whole incident quiet. At one point, Madsen told Curtis that "the toothpaste was already out of the tube."

"Curtis told me he was just trying to put the cap back on the tube," Madsen wrote. "I told Curtis that the suspect may victimize other people in the future, and Curtis acknowledged that part of his job was to protect people in the state of Washington. ? Curtis said he wished he would have just paid the additional money to the suspect because he didn't wish the case to be prosecuted. If the incident became public, it could cost him his marriage and career."

Madsen, in his report, said Castagna told him that Curtis wouldn't say what he did for a living.

"I work to help people out," Curtis reportedly said, before adding, "If I told you, I'd have to kill you."

Castagna said Curtis told him that "his wife knew he liked men when they got married, but she was not into that, so he only did that when he was out of town," the detective wrote in his report.

The entire incident might have never come to light if Curtis hadn't contacted Sgt. Roy Rhine of the Washington State Patrol. Rhine, who works out of the patrol's Southwest Washington office, is a fellow Republican who has run for the state Legislature.

According to Madsen's report, Curtis contacted a friend in the Washington State Patrol and wanted the agency to investigate "because the local police would talk and it would get out to the press." The WSP referred the case back to Spokane officials.

The police report and court filings say that Curtis met Castagna at a Hollywood Erotic Boutique store at about 12:45 a.m. Friday and later rendezvoused at Curtis' room at the Davenport Tower Hotel at about 3:35 a.m.

As part of their investigation, Spokane police have seized video recordings from the hotel and the sex shop, computerized records of when Curtis' hotel room door was opened and closed, and hotel records purportedly showing the rental of gay porn movies by someone in Curtis' room.

Castagna's MySpace.com Web page indicates that he is gay. A search for Castagna in court records turned up a number of cases in Spokane and King County on a variety of charges. Most cases were in juvenile court and involved charges of assault, theft, burglary and malicious mischief.

Court records showed that as an adult, Castagna pleaded guilty in 2001 to a forgery charge and was sentenced to two months in jail and 12 months in community custody.

Partovi said he called the press conference due to the severity of the charges being considered against his client.

"Extortion is a violent Class B felony. It starts with a serious jail sentence, and this guy (Castagna) didn't do anything wrong - at that level, anyway," Partovi said.

And if George Bush said he saw a UFO, you would probably say he is nuts, or he has been drinking, or perhaps mentally ill and would not get the benefit of the doubt that I see others offering Kucinich in these postings. Think about it.

I consider myself as rational as the next person, I have taught U.S. history for years, and would certainly entertain the idea of voting for Kucinich before the other Democratic choices. I don't understand the merits of the argument that he is crazy. Bush, on the other hand . . .

Seeing a UFO IS serious. Something, or someone, is either visiting our planet on a regular basis or there is some--to date undocumented--form of mental illness that would lead (literally) millions of people around the world to believe they have been abducted. There are no other options. Alien visitation or mass, undiagnosed psychosis?

Cleveland Ohio has been the butt of joke ever since Dennis was mayor and took the city into bankruptcy.

Cleveland still deserves to be the butt of jokes for electing him to Congress.

Dennis is the punchline.

It should come as no surprise that the nutroot left believes in UFOs and little green men from Mars, along with their 9/11 "Truther" conspiracy fantasies.

There are degrees of everything. While I personally am not too optimistic that UFO's are out there, the belief, in and of itself, is no worse than those of the deities that some swear by.

But when your beliefs move you to do things that bring about the deaths of thousands, as is the case with George Bush and his invasion of Iraq, then calling such a person 'nuts' isn't too much of a reach.

The case for George Bush being somewhat 'unstable' is strengthened by the fact that our president seems to seek secrecy to such a degree that it has made a graceless transition into paranoia.

It sounded like he was giving a sarcastic answer to a stupid question. I suspect that if he were someone that Tim Russert and Brian "Limbaugh's Best Buddy" Williams liked -- such as pretty much any Republican who isn't Ron Paul -- then Kucinich's response would have been reported as sarcasm. Instead, it's another chance for the GOP/Media Complex to smear a Democrat.

Brucie dear, if you had taken the time to read the previous posts, you would know that UFO stands for "unidentified flying object". It is an objective term, if you will, and not something that needs to be believed in. At least us on the so-called "nutroot left" have our eyes (and minds) open.

Moderator Tim Russert reminded the candidate that polls show just 14 percent of Americans say they have seen UFOs -- (about half the number that approve of the president's job approval in most recent polling.)

Yes, but the 14 % is misleading because:

1. Most people think that only "spaceships" qualify as a UFO and

2. Most people don't want to be labeled

You have to at least double the 14% and then add one for a rounding error, which brings us to 29%, one percentage more than approve of Bush.

So Kucinich is correct.

Forget the UFO's. You know he's crazy when he thinks that redhead he's "married" to really, really loves him.

Posted by: Mike Carasotti | October 31, 2007 12:02 PM


Just because that blow-up doll you sleep with every night doesn't love you doesn't mean Mrs. Kucinich doesn't love her Kibbler elf.

It should come as no surprise that the nutroot left believes in UFOs and little green men from Mars, along with their 9/11 "Truther" conspiracy fantasies.

Posted by: Bruce | October 31, 2007 2:35 PM

This from a man who believes Iraq did have WMD's in 2002, and that Iraq was complicit in 9/11.

It's nice to see that the mainstream corporate media is suddenly interested in talking about Dennis Kucinich. Interesting that it's only when they want to try and mock him. How about reporting on some of the real issues. Such as war, health care and everything else that Kucinich has sound, viable solutions too.

Two words.
Fox spin.

So far into the darkness that it will take a presidential enema to get fair and balanced news out of that bunch.

How do you know that Cheney is not an alien left by those UFO's. His assignment - to corrupt the environment and the air through the malicious use of oil and radioactive matter (materials used in war) so that his alien species can take over and inhabit the earth. He does go to a secret location to recharge his heart or is it something else.....hmmmm?

Funny that comments about 11-7-06 are being censored...

Geez, Silva, you're really getting manipulated. Five years after the Bush Administration floated a spurious warning about the "mushroom cloud" that might erupt if we didn't invade Iraq, it's now following an almost identical strategy (warning of World War III) to mount a phony case for war with Iran.

Just as the Bush Administration is up to its old mischief, so, unfortunately is the media. As Silva's post illustrates, the media isn't holding Bush accountable for his outlandish statement last week -- any more that it served as a fact-checker for the propaganda the White House spewed about Iraq.

Instead, he's insinuating that a critic of Bush's foreign policy in insane because he saw a UFO.

Journalists are supposed to debunk spin, not generate it.

Hey Silva, what are the consequences if Kucinich -- a marginal candidate for President -- is wrong about the UFO? Compare that to the consequences if Bush leads us into another misbegotten war?

Now which one should you be writing about?

The worst part is that if Bush forces us into a conflict with Iran, it will trigger an entirely new cycle of media mea cuplas, as reporters finally awaken to the fact that they stood idly by while the Administration duped the public.

Of course, those stories have already been written, so we just recycle the last three years worth of coverage.

www.chicagotribune.com/classified/automotive/ columnists/chi-0701010141jan01,0,5874175.column

Kucinich's claim is ludicrous. Everyone knows that neither UFOs nor Shirley Maclaine actually exist. Nothing anomolous ever happens and anybody who admits to having unexplained experiences is suspect, very suspect indeed.

It should come as no surprise that the nutroot left believes in UFOs and little green men from Mars, along with their 9/11 "Truther" conspiracy fantasies.

Posted by: Bruce | October 31, 2007 2:35 PM

This from a man who believes Iraq did have WMD's in 2002, and that Iraq was complicit in 9/11.

Posted by: AJF | October 31, 2007 3:04 PM

Or the guy who thinks that evolution is a fraud, that Adam and Eve walked the Earth with the dinosaurs, that the World is 8,000 years old, that global warming" is a hoax, that by invading Iraq and creating tens of thousands more terrorist recruits, we are safer, that we have to "fight them there or fight them in our back yards"....

Commercial airline pilots (and military pilots) have reported seeing UFOs for decades. It's very old news that they exist. Anyone who believes UFOs are a fantasy has frankly been living in the stone age.

Claiming to have seen a UFO and claiming to have seen an alien spacecraft are two different things, and I think Rep. Kucinich does a fairly decent job clarifying his position. Thw war in Iraq, social security, health care, the national debt, civil rights for homosexuals, civil rights for illegal immigrants. These are the issues that are of utmost importance in the upcoming elections, and we waste time discussing weather or not one candidate may have once seen something he couldn't identify.

The real issue here is politics. Issues take a back seat when you're trying to get elected. You can bet your bottom dollar that his competition will waste no time capitalizing in this to portray Kucinich as a nut. Case and point is how the author of this article, Mr. Mark Silva, shamelessly misconstrues Kucinich's comments.

Wake up and smell the steam coming off of this pile.

Last fall several United Air Lines employees, including pilots, saw a UFO hovering over O'Hare Airport in Chicago. Naturally they were quite astonished and they watched it for awhile. Then it zoomed away quickly straight up in the air leaving a hole in the very dense cloud cover. None of the witnesses who saw this object had ever seen anything like it before. The experience of these employees was covered by Chicago newspapers and Chicago TV stations, as well as CNN. As far as I know, the object was never identified and would still fit into the category of a UFO. I am sure that if you ask any of these witnesses today if they ever saw a UFO, they would be proud to say yes. Maybe MSNBC didn't cover the O'Hare UFO story last year...or maybe the moderators of the debates just missed that one. But why would anyone who did see a UFO want to deny it? There have been many sightings of these unusual objects around the world by intelligent and sane people. I would never poke fun at someone who said they saw one. People used to believe the world was flat and laughed at those who thought it could be round. But what really amazes me is that the MSNBC moderators would pose such an insignificant question to a presidential candidate when there are so many really important issues to talk about. And for the record, Dennis Kucinich makes more sense to me on all the issues than any other candidate running for president. He gets my vote.

The Second Edition:
What is it About UFOs?
Richard Thieme

When you think about it – I mean, really step back and think about it – the reaction, I mean, to Dennis Kucinich’s statement about seeing an aerial vehicle, a large dark triangle, something reported by many people in this and other countries and probably one of our own, one of our new stealthy inventions, but one he couldn’t identify – the fact that it was brought up as it was, to ridicule a man whose candidacy has already been made to seem silly, a waste of time and money – and then more ridicule and disdain, after the debate, the thigh-slapping laughter of a loud shouter like Chris Matthews who hooted and hollered and asked other candidates like Joe Biden did they “believe” in UFOs as if this alone of all domains is not a question of evidence, thinking about it all, but a belief like leprechauns or Santa Claus or God - and then, when Governor Richardson of New Mexico stated the obvious, that there is a documented record that our government has withheld information about the subject for decades – not months, not years, but decades – his quiet statement caused the already wildly raving Matthews to get even louder and wilder, demanding to know, my god man, do you think there was a cover-up? a cover-up? And all this said not simply with confidence, but with arrogance fused with ignorance, as if we do not live in a secrecy-shrouded world in which millions and millions of government documents, even when they have been declassified, will not emerge into the light of day for years – years! – a world in which statesmen like the late Senator Patrick Moynihan wrote an entire book about the negative impact of obsessive secrecy (and that was before the Cheney-Bush regime took it up another notch) and how unnecessary secrecy eroded the fabric of a once-open society – I mean, when you think about all that, while the rest of us live our lives downwind in the bluster of the loud shouters screaming their beliefs as if they were part of a civil discourse or a civilized debate – well, all a member of the hidden crowd can do is laugh or weep or perhaps wonder what in the name of God is going on?

I mean, think about it. Mention the silly distractions used to draw the scent into the bushes, nonsense like Britney Spears or the Hilton woman or the dead one, what was her name, now, Anna Nicole, just bring them up, I say, and you’ll get hours of silly discourse, pundits and news anchors and bloggers taking the silly nothings so seriously, playing hand-in-glove games with their publicists, as if such trivia has anything to do with anything real or anything that matters at all, making the silly film Idiocracy seem like a pretty good forecast of things to come, no, things already here.

You understand, it did not just happen. UFOs were not ridiculed when they were covered as news, years ago. As well they ought to have been. Anomalous vehicles having their way and will with our skies, showing up as Look Magazine documented over nuclear plants like Hanford and air force bases all over the country – that’s news, or ought to be. Vehicles behaving in ways that led Life Magazine to conclude, with an in-depth article using official quotes, that the vehicles which had been photographed and documented by official USAF cameras, were in all likelihood extraterrestrial.

Because, given what they did and how they did it, what else could they be?

But you wouldn’t know that, would you? You wouldn’t know that there exists a voluminous amount of data, an immense historical documentation going back into the nineteen thirties, long before the so-called “modern UFO era” had begun, filled with credible observers who were flying fighters or commercial planes or simply looking up or straight ahead, sometimes, at something landing, something alive coming out, then taking off again and disappearing so quickly it made their hair stand up. To observe that this history exists and is well-documented by serious researchers, that historical studies like Keith Chester’s Strange Company, a book that compiles reports mostly from Europe before the second world war and then, during and after the war, or historical articles by Michael Swords, a retired professor from the University of Western Michigan, documenting for example the Robertson Panel, a group that established CIA-supported debunking and ridicule of reports, keeping them out of the mainstream news, or the Condon Committee, a “scientific” panel intended to settle the matter once and for all, the conclusions of which however contradicted the data in its own report, as if the committee did not even read its own work, and indeed, the chair had declared his conclusion with a chuckle and a wink long before the committee had done its work – one could go on and on, there are many serious well-researched works that document the phenomena, and the obviously successful campaign by the US government to use ridicule above all to make the whole domain a matter of jokes and precisely the kind of silliness for which we can thank Tim Russert, Chris Matthews, and their pals, who have never seen much less read any of this serious work, or the other accounts that accurately describe the cottage industry of useful idiots, pathological liars, con artists and flimflam men (and women, of course), making multiple points about the real serious research, as well as the ways that psychological operations and propaganda have been carried out for many years, addressed to the people of this country of necessity in addition to “enemies,” the stated targets of deception, it now being impossible to distinguish one from the other in a world of ubiquitous information. The subject is complex, vast, and worthy of study.

So I ask, once again – what is it about UFOs that makes them such a subject of ridicule when patently ridiculous subjects like Hilton and Spears are treated with respect and amplified by the loud shouters?

A friend who spent his life at the National Security Agency doing analysis said to me once, speaking of the practice of deception – “Illusion, misdirection, and ridicule, these three. But the greatest of these is ridicule.”

His echo of echoed the Apostle Paul was deliberate. This was the Gospel according to the IC, the world of professional intelligence.

Ridicule. The greatest of these is ridicule.

Indeed, people fear ridicule more than death, it seems. The dismemberment of their reputations, careers, and self-images is a grave threat. The thought police know this, of course. The art and science of the intentional destruction of troublesome human beings is alive and well.

The blow-back, however, as our intel friends call the unintended consequences of a sanctioned campaign, is the destruction of civil discourse, the undermining of a public space in which serious subjects receive the attention they deserve. Because so many people do not believe the official truth but don’t know what the truth might be. They know they are lied to much of the time, but don’t know what’s so, so they fill the empty space with projections, confabulations, nightmares and dreams.

There is more to it than that, of course. There is also a threat to the unspoken compacts that keep society hanging together, the ones that get people out of bed in the morning to go to work, not money or other rewards, but how a society functions at its deepest levels. The threat is that a superior civilization exists not “out there” where SETI serenely searches for distant signals, officially sanctioned and signifying nothing, but right here, up close, where thousands of credible witnesses have testified to the presence of anomalous vehicles obviously directed remotely or on the spot by intelligent agents, right here on our very own planet, not the isolated little blue marble in space that we collectively imagine, but one of many inhabited planets, where our society has against all evidence been built on a cornerstone of key beliefs, say them how you will – for religious, that we are the apple of God’s eye, not one apple among many, but the most favored nation, and for non-religious, that our species is the top of the food chain, the obviously smartest and best of all species, kings of the kingdom and queens of the realm. The threat is to the threads that stitch together our particular ways of being a self-conscious collective entity into a cultural myth of priority, invincibility, being the favored children of God. Now, this is a serious threat, along with the other lesser threats, to our dominance of other countries, scientific prowess, and other key pieces of the way we perceive ourselves in this nation. ... and so we come back to UFOs, which have been well-documented, as I said, noted all over the world, in most countries, not just here, for sixty, seventy years, or more, behaving in the same ways, doing similar things, all reported by diverse peoples of all cultures and tribes and ages noting the same small details – that’s not the stuff of insanity, is it? That is something serious, something real, something worthy of scientific study and discussion in the public domain, not only behind closed doors where the masters of deception do indeed practice their dark arts on behalf of multiple agendas which have neither been floated nor voted upon by we, the people, the impotent watchers in the wings, we who ought to know better when the shouters do their job, we who know we have listened for years to lies yet still, like children, believe them because we must, so when they ridicule their victims, pumping up the abuse to effective levels, we must jump on the wagon at once, lest we be ridiculed too by Official Truth. We choose to believe the illusions, to look away from the real, knowing what we are doing, but so afraid of what they’ll say and do if we don’t.

The greatest of these is ridicule. Ridicule is King. And we, good subjects and loyal, obey the King.

The Second Edition is a periodic reflection by author and speaker Richard Thieme. Subscribe at www.thiemeworks.com or write rthieme@thiemeworks.com and say "subscribe."

This would explain not finding the WMDs ... we all know Saddam had them, he used them on the kurds. The aliens took them!
I bet if we stake out Shirley McClain's house we can get the little leprechaun back on board. Or maybe we can just ask Louis Farakhan where the mother ship is.

Last debate Dennis was allowed to speak less than 2 minutes. The UFO thing was a trade off. They let him speak more and managed to distract from his message.

1. Impeach Bush/Chaney.
2. Not for profit health care - medicaid for all!
3. Redistribute the wealth back to the working and middle class.
4. Bush has had 7 years of redistribution of the wealth to the most wealthy.

Dennis was clearly the most mentally balanced person on the stage last night. He actually spoke about issues important to regular people. He actually understands how delicate the balance of life on this planet is and he actually cares.
I think that is why the redhead loves him. He is one of the few decent human beings willing to stand up and be heard and take the inevitable ridicule from people who don't care about anything but personal gain or ratings!

While I have no answers, I find it equally ludicrous that the entire diversity of flora and fauna all sprang from the same amino acids, that somewhere back in time a beetle shares the same ancestry as an elephant. I believe in a little evolution ... but come on!

only one thing worse than a UFO sighting....voting for a person labelled as one of the worst Mayors of a big city in the last 100 years. a two year stint that essentially bankrupted the City!
Also, I would prefer an overtly bald president to one wearing a rug!
Finally, why is it that America has turned to a love affair with Socialists? I have no problem with traditional Democrats but the new Democrats are mostly made up of people wanting to socialize private industry

This is a great example of a question many politicians would try to dismiss or duck altogether - Kucinich simply answered it honestly. More power to him.

to Richard Thieme:

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Great post. You hit a BULLSEYE. Chris Matthews has most likely never read one book on the subject of UFOs. He knows NOTHING absolutely NOTHING about the subject. He's an absolute simpleton who OBSESSES over Hillary Clinton and "Big Beefy" politicians. I challenge him to have the hundreds of pilots (commercial and military), astronauts and UFO researchers on his show for a month. Then lets see what he thinks. The evidence is absolutely and completely conclusive and overwhelming to anyone brave enough to read it with an open and skeptical mind. And it IS a political issue. It may ultimately be THE political issue. But because its BURIED under 60 years of lies its nearly impossible to bring to the public for discussion. Mr. Kucinich just passed the ultimate truth test last night. (Considering that most politicans can't pass ANY truth test this is quite astonishing). He must feel completely liberated. He was the most trustworthy candidate before last night, and today his integrity is beyond the stars.

Ron and Nancy were expected at a casual dinner party with friends in Hollywood. Except for the Reagans, all the guests had arrived. Ron and Nancy showed up a half hour later quite upset. They stated that they had seen a UFO coming down the coast.

Lucille Ball in her book "Lucy in the Afternoon" also described the event. In her account of the event she stated, “After he elected President, I kept thinking about that event, and wondered if he still would have won if he told everyone that he saw a flying saucer.”

This is sad. Russert's question is an obvious attempt to discredit the most credible candidate we have running. Dennis voted against the Iraq war and its continued funding. He is for socialized health care. He understands that NAFTA and the WTO are enslaving third world citizens, making multi-national corporations egregiously wealthy, and continuing to advance the economic gap that has our nation on the brink of economic catastrophe.

Actions speak louder than words. Look at how our candidates vote. Base your opinions on their policies and actions, not these yellow journalism, ad hominem attacks.

"only one thing worse than a UFO sighting....voting for a person labelled as one of the worst Mayors of a big city in the last 100 years. a two year stint that essentially bankrupted the City!" - Posted by: stewart

Looks like someone needs their eyes opened. Check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayoral_administration_of_Dennis_Kucinich#Canceling_the_sale_of_Municipal_Light

As well as this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayoral_administration_of_Dennis_Kucinich#Overview

It takes a good mayor to not only do the best that they can, but also stand up and stand firm when they should. I believe that he had done both, considering the circumstances.

So, in the end, I have all the reason to not ridicule Kucinich and actually listen to what he is saying, as well as the solutions that he has proposed. And I suggest to others to not let something like this UFO circus to distract them from a man who firmly supports the people, actually has clear-cut ideas on tackling the main issues (as well as others), and who is by far the most consistent.

Look, Dennis was nuts long before, and for myriad reasons aside from the UFO. If you think he's so damn wonderful, go live in his district for a while, if you can find a job at a business that isn't considering leaving it, and if you can avoid getting robbed by the gainfully unemployed perps whilst dodging the garbage that lies all over the streets.

Kucinich saw a UFO.Bush,Cheney,Rumsfeld,Rice,and the rest SAW WMDS in Iraq!They saw a connection to 911 with Hussein!Now tell me, who the hell is MORE DELUSIONAL!

i just lived in Cleveland for a couple months. Let me tell you that its current state is not the fault of Kucinich or any other mayor. It had its heyday in the late 19th and early 20th century then slowly declined with all the other big midwestern cities. So far Chicago is the only one to make it to the next era...


Yeah, the earth was created in 6 days is a concept much more plausible (and there's a lot more empirical proof to support it). I don't have all the answers either, and don't expect to. That's why I'll go with the best supported facts and theories for now (with a splash of faith). Peace

If kucinich is nuts for claiming to have seen 1 ufo
(which he rationally described as an Unidentified Object and NOT as an alien ship)
then ronnie reagan must have been twice as nuts...

he claimed to have seen 2 ufo's...

I wonder if nancy asked about these ufo's when she was consulting psychics in the white house?

How many of the candidates believe that wine turns into blood and that crackers turn into a dead man's flesh in their mouth every Sunday at communion. Not everybody believes those things, but who's knocking them for it? Not everybody believes in virgin birth either. I find UFOs more plausible than the flesh and blood stuff of communion.

When the only candidate in the Democratic primary who has a genuine record of voting against the war and its funding (instead of just making pretty speeches against it) gets treated like this, is it any wonder that the Democratic "leadership" hasn't gotten its act together to get us out of Iraq? Why should they if they're not going to be held responsible?

DD, Chicago is the only big Midwestern city to make it to the next era? Try telling that to Minneapolis/St. Paul, Milwaukee, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh (which stumbled when steel went by the wayside but has reinvented itself with strong medical and technology business growth), Columbus (actually the largest city in Ohio). Detroit and to a lesser extent, Cleveland, are the only real big Midwestern cities to still be suffering.

MacClaine said Kunicich said it was a moving experience. Kucinich said that he didn't say that.

Richard Thieme,thank you!!!!!!!!!!

Kucinich will speak the truth regardless of what other people think.

Support Peace,
Support Dennis!

On the same day of the Dem presidential debate, an alleged 1981 briefing to Pres Reagan on UFOs was posted on the Web. Interesting.

For background info please see the two articles:

Alleged briefing to President Reagan on UFOs posted online

November 2, 2007


- - -

Presidential debate brings UFO issue to the surface

November 1, 2007


what is kookie about seeking universal health care without insurance company involvement?
What is kookie about wanting to immediately and responsibly end the illegal war in Iraq which has killed and maimed tens of thousands, including our military and innocent civilians?
What is kookie about wanting to preserve and better Social Security?
What is kookie about wanting to end Free Trade agreements that steal American jobs and enslave children, women and others around the world?
What is kookie about wishing to increase taxes on the wealthy and lowering taxes on those who are struggling?
What is kookie about placing the first priority of government to improve and establish programs that help working class and middle class Americans?
What is kookie about finding ways to curtail global warming in a meaningful way?
But I'll tell you what is kookie. What is kookie is ignoring all of the above as programs that Kucinich is dedicated to establish.
What is kookie is making a stink about his honest remark that he saw something he could not explain, a position shared by Presidents Reagan and Carter.
What is kookie is supporting the position of corporate America and the corporate media in attempting to discredit the only candidate who will bring about real and meaningful change to a sick government and social structure.
What is kookie is selling out.
What is kookie is pushing ideas that injure and kill and trying the suppress a man with guts enough to oppose that.

To Pat:

Um, excuse me? Tthe only thing agreed is that you apparently don't know very much about Rep. Kucinich. He's more sane than Bush+Cheney+ probably 20 other Republican Islamophobe fruitcakes stacked together...

And "every once in a while"?! Have you ever even looked at his website? You might actually see what a decent, intelligent, honest man he is.


"It seems to be agreed that Dennis is a bit of a nut. But, every once in a while he makes a valid and lucid point. The "Bush might just be nuts" comment is certainly one of them.

Posted by: Pat | October 31, 2007 12:00 PM "

To: Mike Carasotti -

Attacking a decent statesman's wife/marriage? Ooh, really classy, dude. Ever think that MAYBE she was attracted to his good nature/personality/intelligence?

Grow up!

"Forget the UFO's. You know he's crazy when he thinks that redhead he's "married" to really, really loves him.

Posted by: Mike Carasotti | October 31, 2007"

It's so unusual to see the so-called right wing nuts ridiculing someone for seeing a UFO when they themselves have often been typecast as the folks most likely to say they have seen one. Let's not forget that the (Art Bell) Coast To Coast fans have to tune in to right wing stations to listen to a show about UFOs (although I would not classify Coast To Coast as right wing itself. It is also interesting to see how the "progressives" handle this one, as many of them affect an air of rationalism and appear decidedly non-UFO (perhaps with the exception of some New Age progressives.) Academic progressives would definitely be afraid of losing their jobs and grants if they were to openly commit the heresy of endorsing the existence of UFOs. I think I smell hipocrasy and perhaps a little cowardice in both camps on this one.

This nutjob was elected in a runnoff by a mostly minority district in Cleveland that has a history of sending nutjobs to washington (remember the "beam me up guy")

Interesting discourse. Let's see if it emerges again during the campaign.

Well there's enough bloody videos of UFOs, what the f*** is the big deal if a congressman saw a UFO, people see UFOs all the time - they video tape them, and no one has a definitive explanation of them. The only people whose mental capacities should be in question are the ones who can't bring themselves to accept the fact that the universe is much bigger and much wierder than what our conventional paradigms have so far allowed us to believe.

The fact that Kucinich saw a UFO and that he's willing to joke about it and acknowledge it only means he's not a soothsaying sycophant - he's an honest man.

The truly interesting question is, why are so many governments so reluctant to come out and say "yes, there is something here and we don't know what it is, but by all evidence we are being regularly visited by some entities we know nothing about. They may be from other civilizations in space, or from some other level or dimension of the universe." (the latter is Jaqcues Vallées' very interesting hypothesis).
When you put it like that, you see why there is a cover-up. Governments are, in general populated by control freaks (they want to "govern" us, right?) To admit that there is a huge problem way outside their control is the last thing they want to do. We might lose some of the "respect" they feel we have for them. Oh dear, that would be bad. Their power might be replaced by that of the "others" whoever they are. It's possible that the visitors understand this control-freak psyche and that's why they have avoided making any demonstrations that could seem threatening. They are just continually showing themselves in ways that will lead to EVERYONE having to eventually realize they are real, governments included.

Sebastian B's remark that in general governments are comprised of control freaks-- they want to "govern" us-- is one that explains a great deal.

I believe that by and large that's true-- that people who will run for government office are more often than not precisely the the kind of folks we don't want there, folks to whom winning and glory and power are

Dennis Kucinich is different. Dennis is energized not by power OVER others but by the power to do good FOR others. People think him offbeat because they have seldom or never seen this in public servants (who of course no longer consider themselves servants of the public).

Now that the race is heating up and Dennis's qualities have become more widely known, we've seen many ignorant, immature ad hominem attacks on him (his hair, his height, his wife, or here, the fact that he is willing to say he saw something in the sky that he couldn't identify despite knowing that people without discernment would use that as feeble "ammunition"), and even whole web sites devoted to defaming him.

I'd say someone-- just MAYBE the corporate media who are in bed with the weapons manufacturers, where it all devolves right back down to their own obese wallets-- is THREATENED by the very idea of a Kucinich presidency.

A Kucinich presidency would turn America in the direction the Constitution was constructed to ensure and then preserve.

From that point we can begin to become a nation the world can respect again, humane, altruistic, trustworthy.

Well, Gene, what is kookie is that you believe all that.

Kucinich saved Cleveland 100 millions from selfish bankers who wanted to sell your hydro/electric. Learn your facts!!

At least Dennis Kucinich's visions are more credible than the Neo-Cons' self prophecy of death and destrucion.

At least Dennis Kucinich's visions are more credible than the Neo-Cons' self prophecy of death and destrucion.

I don't understand why people laughed at him?!!?! No body knows what a ufo is (hence the acronym) so why wouldn't ANYBODY want to know what they are?! Pardon my cynicism, but someone does know. Furthermore, if those numbers are right, then alien space craft or shot down satellite... WHATEVER it is still a question that will always be asked and has always been asked. We need answers either way.

So the impeachment process is possible and/or can be used for criminal prosecution even after George W. Bush leaves office—giving the American people a sense of hope. Even though impeachment while Bush is in office does not seem likely due to the complicity of Congress relative to the illegitimate Iraq War, Kucinich’s efforts relative to impeachment and the efforts of hundreds of Americans relative to impeachment are not wasteful collectively. For example, such efforts are beneficial in that (1) legitimate accusations made in the course of Bush’s presidency appropriately and importantly inform the American people and the world of Bush’s abuses of power, corruption, and dishonesty; and (2) legitimate accusations, for example, in Dennis Kucinich’s excellent book, “The 35 Articles of Impeachment and the Case for Prosecuting George W. Bush,” may contribute to some impeachment and/or punitive process against Bush after he leaves office.

Dennis Kucinich is my role model. Kucinich is simply the best. Congressman Kucinich has, in any case, done invaluable, noble, and exemplary work in pushing for impeachment so vigorously and single-mindedly.

Submitted by Andrew Yu-Jen Wang
B.S., Summa Cum Laude, 1996
Messiah College, Grantham, PA

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