Bush brother warns of Democratic 'agenda of anger and revenge'

The GOP is in trouble and bro Jeb knows it.

I spent Sunday morning having coffee with a very close friend who has supported Bush and the GOP for the past six years and is fed up.

She's voting Democratic in the closely contested 6th C.D.

And one comment about the "guaranteed automatic tax increases": The Bush regime and its GOP rubber stampers have guaranteed automatic super tax increases for our children and grandchildren due to their occupation without end, Medicare "reform" and Paris Hilton tax breaks.

I think the Bush boys know all about anger and revenge. Those are their primary character traits. George has been true to script with his bullying bluster, always screwing up and always being bailed out by his dad's cronies. Bush does not have a principled bone in his body.

In other words....we have thrown in every wedge issue we can and we still need votes. We have tried to devide all the people we can and we still need votes. We have called all those who oppose our agenda unpatriotic, and we still need votes. We have spent 200 million, and we still need more. More, more ,more...so we can protect all the people from the things we tell you to be afraid of. Call out to the very religious so we can whip them into a frenzy and let them know that the democrats will take away their religion
and won't try to force their views down everyones throat like we will. Remember Mr. Bush
is a born again...and again...and again...and again.........

Dear Jeb:

You are as oblivious as your brother. The current poll results indicates that a good 15+ per cent of centrist Republicans no longer back this War started by your brother, his mentor (Cheney), and backed by women like his wife (Laura). Apparently, many self-described Republicans are beginning to see the light shed on an ill-conceived, ill-justified, and ill-determined War. The original 50 per cent comes from the center and the left! I truly hope those centrist Republicans cross over, and vote against their party.

Eventually, even a greater percentage of Germans overcame their initial thinking and quit the Party. This war isn't lost! It should never have occurred.

Send the Bushes back to England on a raft!

Revenge? Really? Wow! You mean like the multibillion dollar fiasco the Republicans unleashed on Clinton for his little fun in the oval office! (At least he was not with an underage male page.) This is the bottom of the barrel. I have NEVER seen so much hypocrisy in my life. We need leaders, not dictators. What are you neonuts so afraid of? that we might put in a little oversite to your profiting rampage that has cost 3000 lives? and maybe hold you accountable? What comes around, goes around.

"an agenda of anger and revenge."

Isn't that a perfect description of the Bush Administration?

Anger at anyone who question his decisions?

Revenge towards people like Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame who provide facts that show his lies?

When was the last time Dick Cheney made a statement that wasn't angry, venegeful, or both?

I'll admit, we're angry. But we're not out for revenge. We're out for justice. We're out for fairness. We're out for truth. Things all very foreign to this administration.

"Agenda of anger and revenge"? Jeb is much too kind on the Democrats. Just read some of the "Bush is Hitler" or "Chimpy" comments in "The Swamp", and you'll get some idea of the reality-denying hatred out there.

"Jeb Bush has run his last campaign"

Jeb, the obvious 'gifted' one has not run his last campaign, in my opinion.
He will be the next Republican candidate for POTUS.
So get ready.

* * *

This Just In;

Looks like Maliki is still off the reservation.

BAGHDAD, Iraq -- Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki on Tuesday ordered the lifting of joint U.S.-Iraqi military checkpoints around the Shiite militant stronghold of Sadr City and other parts of Baghdad -- another apparent move to assert his authority with the Americans and appeal to his Shiite support base.

U.S. officials apparently did not have advance warning of the order to remove the around-the-clock barriers by 5 p.m. Tuesday. A military spokesman, Lt. Col. Christopher Garver, said officers were meeting to "formulate a response to address the prime minister's concerns."

"I can tell you that my brother is absolutely committed to winning this election."

And your brother should be just plain committed.

Several quick comments: Jeb Bush and his brother have attempted and will trample your rights (Military Commissions Act and Terri Schiavo); Another instance of The President and his supporters setting up straw men by lying or purported statements that were never spoken ("Agenda of anger and revenge". Try to scare the people and legislate by fear); Whatever happened to uniter and not divider? Bush wants to blame everything that has gone wrong on the Democrats even though the Republicans have been in control of the White House and both houses of congress (Mark Foley, Abramoff). Republicans are quick to accuse Democrats of tax increases, but the Republicans, in 12 years of power, have tripled the number of pork barrel projects, increased the size of government and spent more while decreasing the revenues. When your bill collectors come for their money, who do you blame for spending the money? You can trim the spending without removing the tax cuts.

"This election isn't about victory for victory's sake. For George, the presidency is a charge to keep. He makes the tough decisions - even when they're not popular - because that was the solemn vow he made to the American people."

The problem is, he keeps making dumb decisions that consistently turn out to be wrong.

As for victory for victory's sake, just remember that the GOP is running on "stay the course" and fear of a Democratic majority. I wouldn't exactly call that a positive message to fulfill his "solemn vow."

Governor Jeb Bush is right the Democrats have no vision for America. If they are elected they will raise your taxes with Charles Rangel Chair of the ways and means committee. They will ruin our good economy with effects of raising our taxes.Some 44 percent of Americans pay no taxes at all so, those who pay taxes see relief across the board.They have no energy plan. They will stop drilling and refining our available oil reserves-- really raising oil prices like during Carter's oil embargo and rationing gasoline and stopping sales on Sundays as Carter did. President Bush has been creative with alternative energy sources like ethanol and soy products. The Democrats want us to put on sweaters and stop driving our cars. Since Al Gore is so offended by automobiles and believes dooms day is coming with perceived global warming.
They will leave Iraq before the job is done. They are for no to everything the Republicans propose. They won't make us safe from terrorism.Yet, our economy is excellent thank you. Wakeup America and Illinois these people are mean and seeking revenge as Governor Jeb says. Jerry White, Springfield,IL

"This final drive to victory"? Promise? A promise you will keep?

Please.

Anyone who believes the Democrats will ruin this country (or that the Republicans will bring us to salvation) isn't paying the least bit of attention.

Let's be clear. A victory for Democrats, now or in any time in the near future, will saddle them with the responsibility of completing the war on terror - a campaign that was set in the wrong direction and now needs major adjustment. It's actually better for the Democratic party if the people who run the elections steal this one for Bush again. That will give us 8 full years of Republican rule. If the Republicans can't finish off al-Qaeda in 8 years with full reign of power then they are NEVER going to "get 'er done."

Unfortunately, what is good for the Democrats isn't good for the country or for the soldiers who are putting their lives at needless risk for a dubious cause.

Our votes next Tuesday - assuming they are accurately counted - determine whether we will continue down the same road in the hope that we find the shining light or if we will redirect our efforts against terrorism.

Memo to the Democratic party, if you win the Congress during this election cycle: If my children and family are harmed by terrorists on our shores, if you impeach the President, if you raise taxes, and if you declare defeat in Iraq and/or Afghanistan, you will know anger and revenge. Notice has been given.

To The Captain-

Do you hold the Republicans accountable for the 9/11 attacks "on our shores"? Do you hold them responsible for the spiraling debt this administration has run up for your children to pay?

Perhaps you need to give some notice to the Republicans.

A++ Jerry White,
You recited every RNC talking point, complete w/ false facts, distortions, exaggerations, and outright lies. Go to the head of the class!

Captain one no Democrat is talking about declaring defeat in Iraq only Republicans claim that. As to the talking point that WE ARE FIGHTING THEM THERE SO WE WON'T HAVE TO FIGHT THEM HERE. It's Iraqi against Iraqi.. Plus Republican in the time since the 9/11 attack have done nothing to secure America that not just talk the 9/11 Commission says that loud an clear only Republicans seem not to be able to hear over talking points. The only thing that will Happen if Democrats win is oversight which we have not had by this Republican Congress. Plus again you don't hear Impeachment is off the table to many other issues to work on. Iraq and Afghanistan need to be looked at very closly they under Bush have both fell apart. So Sir talking points are useless do you have a plan or just talking point. I would love to hear a plan for victory I gave one whats yours. And don't say stay the course thats just a slogan not a plan

The Captain,

According to your irrational post I should be venting by anger and revenge directly at you. WE WERE HIT ON GEORGE BUSH'S WATCH...PERIOD. You neo-cons can spin all you like (BRUCIEGIRL), but the facts are in and the Republicans have failed on all accounts. One more thing, wing nuts, all I hear is that Dems don't have a plan for Iraq. Well Duh. If any of you brainwashed Republicrooks had any shred of intelligence then you'd know that only one person can dictate the military direction undertaken by this country. That person is called the Commander-in-chief. Unfortunately, our C.I.C. is nothing more than a chimp in a flight suit. What a Dem takeover in the House or Senate will means is oversight...not the undersight commmited by this do-nothing rubber-stamp congress. We are voting to have some adults actually monitor the shenanigans taking place by the child-like brains operating out of the Oval Office. But you nut bars out there (bruce, paulogirl, JD, or John D) can't see the forest through the trees. Only one party is responsible for the nations's debacles: Iraq, Katrina, health care, lobbiest corruption, closeted gayness, war profiteering (actually made legal my this immoral administration), debauched energy policy, removal of habeus corpus, torture (do I need to go on?). All of these issues have been blundered by GW-ChimpyMcFlightsuit-Bush and his Republican enablers.

Memo to the Democratic party, if you win the Congress during this election cycle: If my children and family are harmed by terrorists on our shores, if you impeach the President, if you raise taxes, and if you declare defeat in Iraq and/or Afghanistan, you will know anger and revenge. Notice has been given.

Posted by: The Captain | Oct 31, 2006 9:26:06 AM

There ya go...now there is a conservative for ya.
One who still thinks the tax breaks were aimed at the middle class getting a break. One who can't read the whole bill that shows by 2010, 51.8 percent of tax break goes to the top 1 percent.
Sounds like the kinda guy who "would" support bush. macho! shoot first ask questions later kinda guy. A man's man. Easier to fight than negotiate. If we needed a bully...we would go to the schoolyard and get one. We need a leader not a divider.

How does tennille feel about this?

Jerry White,

Let's put your post in a time capsule and have your future generations open it is say, oh, fifty years when they are struggling with drought, flooding, food shortages and the demise of the US due to her failing under the greedy policies of your precious Repubs. So, go ahead and fill up your Expedition and the hell with your grandchildren.

Darn right people are angry, but they are not seeking revenge -- they want leaders that make policies don't bankrupt our country and environment. Time to take the credit cards away from the Repubs.

By the way, you might want to look into the fact that it takes a gallon and a half of gas to create a gallon of ethanol. Concept is good, but the reality isn't going to help us. Buy a sweater and a bike.

Can any Republican tell me where Osama Bin Laden is? Can any Republican tell me why Bush has said, to paraphrase, that Osama is a not that important? Can any Republican tell me why the CIA and FBI have dismantled their task forces that were searching for Osama Bin Laden? Can any Republican tell me why the most important terrorist still hasn't been found or confirmed dead? Can you tell me Bill O'Reilly? Can you tell me Rush Limbaugh? Can any of you other conservative talking heads tell me? No? I see. Well it must be the Democrats fault then.

I think I'll save my wrath for the voting booth.

You can vote between now and November 7th. Contact your county clerks office or website and find out where early voting is being held.

"Please join me in standing with him and our Republican candidates for this final drive to victory." Jeb Bush

The vehicle your driving to victory needed a new trans-mission accomplished and a heckuva oil job a few thousand miles back.

Jeb,
Please shut up,and go away.

Shouldn't you be busy rigging the elections down in Florida with your good buddie Catherine Harris??

By the way,how's that Catherine Harris doing in her election anyway???

Jeb,the "drive" to victory is indeed on.

7 more days

The countdown has started,wingnuts.

Nov.7,2006 - fire your local Republican day

"Anger and revenge"? Nah. I just want our Bill of Rights back Jeb.

apology/message to Bryan forwarded from a semi-deceased thread

addressing conspiracy theories and other thoughts

Bryan, with my original post (copied at the end) below -- I meant those comments purely as "food for thought" -- and it was in the context of addressing conspiracy theories which I didn't originally bring up or defend -- I believe you did that

Seriously, NO offense was intended -- I'm not calling anyone an anti-semite -- I'm just making a point about Occam's razor -- written in 1835 by William of Occam ...... "Neither more nor more onerous causes are to be assumed than that which are necessary to explain the phenomena" .......... which means, Why look for complicated explanantions when obvious explanations are right there ??

many have hated Jews and expressed that hatred violently in the 20th & 21st centuries -- I know they all try to use the Jews as scapegoats but I do not understand their hatred -- no more than I understand their evil or cruelty

but the pattern of violence towards Jews in the 20th century is profoundly clear and the liklihood that we will see more violence aimed at Jews (and supporters of Israel) in this century is undeniable

the US as supporters of Israeli has paid a deep price -- this includes Democrats RFK and now (to an obviously lesser degree) Senator Lieberman -- surely Bush has also politically paid a steep price for his policies which in part sought to deter the enemies of Israel -- I'm not implying that the dems are abandoning Lieberman because of his heritage but because he has a nuanced and courageous foreign policy that does not pass the litmus test of the democratic party's one size fits all -- APPLY HERE ONLY IF YOU ARE LOCK-STEPPING SHEEP mentality

I don't like the war strategy in Iraq, I believe we overstimated the task, did not prepare for mission creep and did not stop to weigh the economic impact appropriately -- but the objectives are not without any merit -- so , I don't support the "war" strategy per se (though I fully support our media-beleaguered fighting men and women) but I'm not going to buy into some crazed conspiracy theory that blames Americans for the murders committed by Al Quaeda -- also I like what Jay Leno said about the whole WMD thing long ago -- if the repubs were really the kind of schemers they are being painted as , then we would have been sure to find evidence of the WMD's -- funny it takes a comedian to see through some of this crap

much of what I've said has been in attack of Bush policies but the Democrats are NOT trying to win the power in Washington to do more good there, they are trying to win back power to win back power -- otherwise they would be more frank about their plans after election --

one thing is clear -- part of the plan for the democrats to win back power is to further polarize a country already divided -- us -- the United States

anyway I didn't call you an anti-semite and I apologize that I offended you

I was just, as I said, giving "food for thought" hoping a few facts would make the "conspiracy theories" seem less plausible when you take into account the big picture -- as Ms. Elizabeth Bennett said (highly paraphrased) -- "there are enough actual problems in Washington to be concerned over so as not to worry about the theoretical"

if you did read the popular mechanics report, why did you ask the question about the radio transmission that used the word "pull" in reference to WTC seven ???? (that reference was fully explained)

In Peace (sincerely),

tom -- little t the MD

my previous post:

"what do the following have in common ??
1) Kristalnacht
2) concentration camp executions at Auschwitz
3) the murder of RFK
4) murder of 11 Israeli athletes September 1972
5) murder of Anwar Saddat
6) murder of elderly man in a wheelchair on the Achille Lauro cruise ship
7) shooting of John Paul II
8) bombing of US Embassy Beirut
9) bombing of USS Cole
10) civilian Scud missile target locations by Saddam Hussein during Gulf War 1
11) murder of over 3000 innocent Americans in NY and Pennsylvania 9-11-2001
12) site of multiple missiles fired to retaliate at civilian populations during attacks on Iranian-backed Hezbollah ..........the answer is Hatred of Jews ..... this is not a "theory" of conspiracy ..... Bush has been called many things -- I've never heard him called a Hater of Jews -- I repeat my shock at how the dems have treated Joe Lieberman ......just food for thought"

Posted by: tom (little t) the MD

HAPPY HALLOWEEN

It isn't anger and revenge the people want. It's responsibility and accountability. And we will have it. On the other hand George Walker Bush wouldn't have any cause for concern about voter anger if he had simply been truthful about, well - everything. His constant statements that "mistakes have been made," and then making more mistakes as correction is what the President has to worry about. If demanding that George W. Bush is made to account for his Presidential actions constitutes anger - then yes - I am angry. The only revenge he has to worry about is the global embarrassment he's going to be made to feel when the true depth of his stupidity and hubris is brought to light for all to see. If Bush hasn't managed to spend it yet - you can bet your bottom dollar that investigations are going to made into the Bush administration. A lot of us are going to be vindicated by the truths that unfold. A lot of us are going to be shown as the apathetic Bush following sheep that we have been. But one way or the other the truth will out. Jeb Bush can plead with the entire nation to contribute money to a cause as lost George's idyllic Iraq, but money can not buy back public confidence. Good Luck Jeb and George. It just isn't gonna happen.

"..the answer is Hatred of Jews ..... this is not a "theory" of conspiracy ..... Bush has been called many things -- I've never heard him called a Hater of Jews -- I repeat my shock at how the dems have treated Joe Lieberman ......just food for thought"

Posted by: tom (little t) the MD"

tom,

Just a couple thoughts on your post.

Jew hating has always been a specialty in the USA. And, sorry to say, it was a strong point of conservative politicians for a long long time. Most of the socialists were Jews. And Jews were sometimes strung up, along with black Americans in the bad old lynching days.

And, it was just a few short years ago that the 'problem' with America wasn't Liberal Hollywood, Liberal press, Liberal Eastern elitists. It was, however, the Hollywood Jewish conspiracy, Jewish control of the press conspiracy, New Your Jews conspiracy, Jews control the banks conspiracy, International Jewrey conspiracy.

Anybody else remember this? I am not making it up. It's only fairly recently the conservatives in charge have changed their tune towards Jews. All the rabid anti-Zionists were right wingers back in the 50s/60s. Liberals generally supported the creation of Israel.

I know, a lot of good cons. did too.

GOOD POINT C. MORRIS

lots of hatred of Jews has existed in US and that was true of the harder core conservatives of the 50's -- democrats and reps

it even partly explained our delay in entering WW2 (along with some legitimate pacifists and isolationists)

still the patterns are real enough even now outside of the US that we don't have to look for conspiracy to explain 9-11

ironically it's conservatives now that are among the most pro-Israel in American politics including the conservative religious right and those more hawkish in mideast and antiterrorist policies -- not saying they are right about most things -- just saying that the conservative movement of 2006 does not seem likely at all to be motivated by anti-semitism

tom,

General agreement is achieved on that.

And I agree there was not a Jewish, or Bush active conspiracy to commit the acts of 9/11.

However;

The BushCorp has exploited and worked the 9/11 attack repeatedly for political effect. Any American or Israeli Jew that thinks all this support from the RR is more than rhetoric deep is in for a bad shock when the need for their support is gone.

"Send the Bushes back to England on a raft!"

.........You are of course joking. The only way they would be allowed to land on English soil is if puppet Tony Blair in person was the handling the reception. As he wouldn't be, on second thoughts, maybe it's a good idea.

Tom, C.Morris, in my humble opinion the change in the views of today's conservative wing of the republican party concerning Israel can be traced back to one man, Henry Kissinger. Ever since Kissinger became 1st National Security Advisor and then Secretary of State his administrations have shown only the strongest support for Israel and that support grew and flourished during the Reagan years.

Today, without the strong backing of american conservatives Israel would find herself in a much more tenuous position. Meanwhile, those conservatives support Israel not because it's the right thing to do (and it is) but because they value a democracy in the middle east. Even one that it's neighbors hate for anti-semitic reasons.

I want to know why Florida Governor NEO-CON REPUBLICAN Jeb Bush, {who unlawfully through Florida Secretary of State NEO-CON REPUBLICAN Katherine Harris' election trickery, sleight of hand, fraud and deception in return for politcal elevation hand delivered the November 2000 Presidential Election to his brother NEO-CON REPUBLICAN George(6) Walker(6) BushJr(6) even though Albert Gore Jr. won} did not warn the United States of America and its citizens about his brother NEO-CON REPUBLICAN George(6) Walker(6) BushJr(6) SECRET HIDDEN ILLEGAL NEO-CON REPUBLICAN AGENDA of desecrating, dismantling, and destroying the CONSTITUTION, BILL OF RIGHTS, DECLARATION OF INDEPENDANCE, and SEPARATION OF POWERS. Yes, Jeb Bush can you tell all of America why you did not warn us about you & your brother's secret hidden illegal NEO-CON REPUBLICAN AGENDA to destroy & re-write the sacred legal documents written by the founding fathers that established & are the foundation of our great country and permit individual liberty. Without the sanctity of the Constitution, Bill of Rights, Declaration of Indpependence, and Separation of Powers there is "no freedom" and "no democracy". So America if you think ignorance is "BLISS" and you agree with the secret hidden illegal agenda of the NEO-CON REPUBLICANS (including George Bush Sr., George Bush Jr., Jeb Bush, Katherine Harris, Dennis Hastert, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfawitz, and Michael Hayden)to desecrate, dismantle, and destroy the Constitution, Bill of Rights, Declaration of Independence, and Separation of Powers then by all means vote 100% REPUBLICAN. But if you are very worried about the secret hidden illegal agenda of the NEO-CON REPUBLICANS then vote 100% Democratic to restore America to a "True Democracy" as our founding fathers intended it to be and to reverse the illegal changes to the Constitution, Bill of Rights, Declaration of Independence, and Separation of Powers. NEO-CON REPUBLICANS YOU HAVE HAD 5 YEARS OF UNFETTERED AND UNACCOUNTABLE POWER AND WHAT HAVE YOU DONE????

HERE IS THE RESUME OF ALL REPUBLICANS SINCE 2000

A) Desecrated & Destroyed the U.S. Constitution

B) Desecrated & Destroyed the Bill of Rights

C) Desecrated & Destroyed the Declaration of Independence

D) Desecrated & Destroyed the Separation of Powers

E) Added 3 trillion dollars to the National Debt of Citizens of the United States of America (a HIDDEN TAX INCREASE of 39.5%)

F) Let epic criminal deceptions & malfeasance transpire that have victimized 300,000,000 Americans

G) Allowed George Bush Jr., Richard Cheney, Dennis Hastert, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfawitz, and Michael Hayden to de-fraud Congress, the United States of America and its citizens, and the whole world

H) failed to use the 3 trillion dollars, they allowed to be stolen & spent on IRAQ enriching the Military Industrial "Fat Cats", to prepare for the tsunami of babay boomer retirees (1/3 of the 300,000,000 citizens are set to begin retiring this year; 3 trillion could have solved that problem and it could have been used for perfecting, purifying, and securing the U.S. National Water Supply Infrastructure System since we human beings are 80% water and that is the only system that "enters into" every U.S. citzen's home & workplace and whose product "enters into" every U.S. citizen's body. (see ABC NEWS The Blotter article 10/30/2006 regarding a foreign hacker who highjacked a water filtration & treatment plant and siezed operational control while levaing ominous threats paragraph 7 of the original article) Without water no human being can live very long and if the water you consume is impure, tainted, or adultered by hostile parties then you could die quickly. The top 2 "REAL" "CLEAR & PRESENT" "DANGERS" to America could have been totally & perfectly addressed & solved with that 3 trillion that flows into the pockets of military industrial "FAT CATS" irratating the Hornet's Nest in the Middle East. Now in 2006 3 trillion dollars later we still have the 2 problems of Water Infrastructure System Impuriy and Insecurity and a Tsunami of Baby Boomer Retiress and we can add to that AN EPIC FRAUDULENT CRIMINAL DECEPTION of Congress, the United States of America and its citizens and the whole world executed by the NEO-CON REPUBLICAN controlled White House, Senate and Congress and lastly and most disturbing to all citizens of America is the destruction of the CONSTITUTION, BILL OF RIGHTS, DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE, AND SEPARATION OF POWERS.

THE FOUNDING FATHERS OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA RISKED THEIR LIVES TO BREAK FREE FROM A DICTATORSHIP IN ENGLAND SO ALL AMERICANS COULD ENJOY FREEDOM AND A PERPETUAL DEMOCRACY.

AMERICA EXERCISE YOUR RIGHT TO EVICT, FIRE, AND TERMINATE THE EMPLOYMENT OF ALL REPUBLICANS WHO ARE GUILTY OF DESTROYING YOUR LIBERTY AND OUR DEMOCRACY IN 5 JUST 5 YEARS WITH UNFETTERED AND ACCOUNTABALE POWER.

GOOD LUCK AND MAY GOD BLESS AMERICA AGAIN!!

so Todd what exactly are you saying ?? stop holding back and tell us what you really think !!

valid points by C. Morris and Bill

and also to RRD and Bryan --

thanks to both of you for defending me (primarily on the other thread)

- I do appreciate it

what I was trying to say was that the conspiracy theorists (in this case the 9-11 crowd) end up tying everything back to Bush (or Clinton or Ford or whoever is in power but for now it's clearly aimed at the Bush administration) but there is another actual conspiracy in the past 75 years or more of violent acts motivated by hatred of Jews -- 9/11 clear fits in the pattern of a well-known conspiracy and does not fit in the pattern of the theorized conspiracies unless you want to call Bush an anti-semite (which I haven't heard anyone do) OR if you are one of these guys who want to say the Israelis attack themselves to get sympathy (those guys are out there in the muslim fundamentalist camps and are among white supremicists and some wackos crazier than the cartoon character Dale on "King of the Hill")

anyway - I better stay out of politics or I might pull a "Kerry"

tom -- little t