Readers have a lot to say about the election, Barack Obama's plan to raise taxes on the wealthiest Americans -- those households making more than $250,000 per year -- the record disparity gaps in income levels, the concentration of wealth among the upper classes over the last 30 years, and Republican complaints of "class warfare" every time it's mentioned. Thanks to everyone who reacted to recent columns on this subject; the civil feedback -- lacking profanity and invectiveness -- is very much appreciated. (For those who complain about the cost of government, the reason we pay federal taxes, just one thing: Welfare, as we knew it, is pretty much gone, never was a big part of the federal budget and not the reason why taxes are so high. The big-ticket items are Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, and then defense-related spending, now estimated at close to a trillion a year.)
Nancy owns a company:
I read, shaking my head, the comments about who is wealthy. My grandfather was a German immigrant who lost everything after 1929. My father was born in 1920 and passed along his values to me. I took over his precast concrete business and I work very hard for what I earn, especially now. I can still hear my father say that he never minded paying taxes; it meant he made money that year. Can you imagine how wealthy this country would be if everyone thought that way? He took the advice of accountants and tax planners, but he always paid his share."
Jeffrey is an executive at a big bank, supports sales tax
"Who the wealthy are, and whether they should pay more taxes is irrelevant until they actually pay the share they are supposed to now. I am constantly reminded of the scene in Cheers where Sam beats millionaire Robin in a game of chess for their respective salaries. Robin pays Sam his annual salary, one penny. The point here is that most if not all high level executives receive a lot of their pay in stock options or other perks, like $400,000 retreats, that is not taxed at the top bracket, if at all. McCain (whom I am leaning towards) foolishly wants to eliminate capital gains taxes, essentially giving these same execs a tax holiday. The uber wealthy have abusive tax trusts, or hide their money and income out of the country, and don't pay taxes either. Many corporations do the same thing. The middle and lower classes comprised of mostly honest, hardworking, tax paying citizens cannot take "advantage" of all of this and pays their full "due" of taxes. Some unfortunate souls get caught by AMT and really hammered by taxes.
"The crux of the problem is that the tax code is so Byzantine and convoluted and full of loopholes, that the upper class is either taking advantage of directly or using sleazy accountants to do it for them. There needs to be a fair and reasonable way to apportion taxes and make sure that everyone pays them, before we even begin to discuss who should pay more or less. Again, we in the US are arguing over Band-Aids rather then fixing the problem. Of course, keep in mind that the majority of tax scofflaws work in the White House or Congress, so I guess its no surprise that none of them want to actually fix it. Its better to pander to the voters. But really, we are all being screwed.
"I personally support a national sales tax. It hits everyone equally and captures income from illegal sources as well (drug dealers would pay taxes on their Escalades). There are no special breaks for any group and it is applied equally across class, gender, and race. You would continue to exempt non-prepared foods, some services, and perhaps children’s clothing to avoid it being regressive. But it would reward savers and wise spenders and capture additional income on large luxury items. It would also prevent anyone from dodging paying taxes."
Penny is wise
"After hard work through college and some beyond we are fortunate, very fortunate, to be in that lofty 2%. We have willingly coughed up our taxes and don't gripe (well, not too much) about it. We've sent our kids to private schools and have been respectful of others who cannot afford or chose not to make the same choice. We have NEVER taken a dime without adding it to the total to be taxed, so I get really bummed when I hear people glibly talk about taking "money under the table", want to be paid in cash only, and other tax-dodging practices. Tell those thieves to be honest fool. . . We support Obama because, among many other reasons (brilliant, young, calm...NOT a maverick...who wants an out of control maverick as President?)....but because he IS trying to 'spread' things around....like making huge companies pay their share of taxes, and shredding the golden umbrellas for high rolling CEOs, and giving tax breaks to the terribly strapped middle and lower income folks. Yes, we know our personal tax bill will not improve, and our recently ransacked 401-ks may not recover in time for our previously planned retirement years (wait 15-20 years for them to recover? We'll be 77 & 78 by then, (Lord willing). . . . Yes, those making $250K+ are comfortable. So they may have to give up the country club or horseback riding lessons. Sorry, stop your moaning & groaning."
Marc rants about other stuff:
"I will be delightfully surprised if Barack Obama wins because I have no faith in the American voter. I think the average American voter is incredibly stupid and lazy. Examples of this include the re-election of "W" and what should be a much greater disparity between those voting for the party of change and those supporting the party of the problems we need to solve. I am a middle-aged white man and I have a great deal of trouble believing white people my age will vote for a black man. I think our founding fathers thought that since the right to vote was so precious, we would exercise that right with more deliberate judgment. . . . NOTHING infuriates me more than being called un-patriotic because I vote Democratic."
Ellen shares Warren Buffett's views:
"So few people today counter the ridiculous fallacy passed off on us now for decades that a "trickle down" approach to the economy is a fair one and good for us all. Rather, it is a farce and was never intended, even by its knowledgeable proponents, to work. In short it was a scam passed off on us, a real work of class warfare, not this phony phrase passed around by the wealthy these days when their obscene tax breaks are called into question. . . . Class warfare is when the gap between rich and poor is growing past Robber Baron standards, as it is these days. Asking those with incomes over $250,000 to forgo some of the breaks that have put them on the nice side of the growing divide is not class warfare by any stretch of the imagination. That is called fairness, the kind needed if a democracy is to survive, since the research on the vitality of the middle class correlating with the vitality of a democracy is clear and persuasive. You cannot have a democracy with rich gated communities surrounded by struggling people. That is not what our Founders dreamed of, and it's what we are getting with trickle down tragic nonsense. . . . For what it is worth, while I am not on the nice side of this $250,000 divide, I am not too far off. Yet I have consistently advocated for an increased tax burden for the well-off, myself included. That is what being part of a democracy entails. It has never been about me first. It has always been about the common good. And a country with the income gap growing cannot be a just one with the common good enhanced."
Rocco Rotondo says they're stingy:
"The truth of the matter is people who make $250,000 are the bottom of that group. I would venture to say a great majority make well over that figure. They don't want to let any go."
Gerald, a CPA, points out Clinton factor:
"I've read with interest your columns of the past two days that each mentioned that, "The federal tax cuts of the early 2000s … were targeted primarily on wealthy families…". While I certainly can't disagree with that statement, perhaps it is fair and balanced to mention that shortly after coming into office, the Clinton administration sponsored and pushed through Congress the "Revenue Reconciliation Act of 1993" which created a new higher tax rate of 36% on incomes in excess of $140,000 for married people ($115,000 for singles) and a top rate of 39.6% for incomes in excess of $250,000 for all. Prior to 1993, the top tax rate was 31%. To make matters worse, the new rates were enacted in August 1993 but made retroactive to 1/1/93. . . . So I think it's fair to say that, "The federal tax increases of the early 1990s … were targeted primarily at wealthy families." So all the Bush tax cuts did was cut back some of the Clinton tax increases on the wealthy. In fact, the Bush tax cuts only reduced the top rate to 35%, still 4% points higher than the top rate of 31% before the Clinton tax increases."
Carl thinks he's already overly taxed:
"I am, using the $250,000 annual income benchmark, among the 'wealthy.' We own and operate retail stores in the area where we employ about 50 associates. We are very fortunate to make a good living but it wasn't always that way. When we started our business 19 years ago, I worked in the store from opening to close every day. . . . We are 'all in' with my business. My girls work with me and my wife takes care of the books. We have loans against our home which guarantee our business debts. Although I don't work the hours I did when we started the business, we do not have banker's hours. I'm not whining, I just want you to understand that there are commitments that I make to insure my standard of living that I'm sure many would not. I also believe that many would not have taken the risk we took early on and continue to take. As an aside, about 2 hours ago we chased an individual from our store who had stolen some of our merchandise. Last week, we caught an associate who was using fictitious refunds to steal from us. It ain't easy!
"Look, I'm a product of the sixties, too! We spent a lot of time talking in the day about how it would be different when we were in charge. But, somehow, it's not that simple. I know that I work hard and have built a business that helps to support 50 families. We pay Federal Taxes at the 38% rate and Maryland taxes at the 7% rate. Most folks don't realize that we also pay payroll taxes that this year will amount to about $60,000. That pays part of our associates Social Security, and it pays for Medicare and unemployment benefits for our associates. That comes right out of our pocket and is also a "tax." At times, it would be easier to sell the business and take our investment and put it into an interest bearing account. Less payback but a lot fewer headaches. I know this....when the taxes get too high people like me will do just that! . . . I know that there are lots of people out there who would change places with me in a heartbeat. I can't deny that the statistics about negative salary gains at the low end of the scale are distressing. However, I am also frustrated by a philosophy that says just because someone makes less than someone else, then that person is somehow 'entitled' to more. I am a firm believer in programs that help everyone to a better life but I am also realistic enough to understand that not everyone will participate! Why penalize with an even greater tax burden those who help create wealth in the first place! Why does it need to be a zero sum game?"
Hilary would love a new bathroom
"My spouse and I teeter around the $150k income mark. We used to make more until I went to a lower paying job to spend time with my daughter. The old job netted my husband and I more money but I valued my time more. The biggest change for us now is that we won't be able to save as much money, make home improvements or send my daughter to private school for her education and still pay our other bills. . . . If we had $250 or more, we wouldn't be driving fancy cars or sailing on yachts or taking big vacations, but we'd be able to afford that quality education, and make home improvements, like updating our ugly 70s bathroom! I had that quality education and wish I could give it to my daughter but I can't do that and be home with her on nights and weekends. These days, making the kind of money required to send your kids to private school means working nights and weekends.
"So, I had to make a choice. In making the choice, I evaluated what more money can buy -- a better quality of life, something that would make me and my kids richer in our life, not in money, but in the types and quality of things we could do. The choice impacted where I worked all day and where my daughter would go all day to school. It may not be the kind of wealth normally thought of -- shiny cars, big homes, expensive vacations, but being able to choose the best quality in what you already do is a kind of wealth. Having the same life, in the same home, but with better home improvements, and better schools IS a kind of wealth.
"And those people that e-mail you saying that $250k isn't wealthy need to realize that. They are wealthy. Making over $250,000 is rare and for a lot of people its either impossible or requires impossible sacrifices. Perhaps those e-mailers see other parents like them at the private schools or in the upscale supermarkets or at the workplace and think everyone is like them. They aren't. Some people can't afford to be at those same schools, or choose not to be in that same workplace. Instead, most people are making basic life choices based on money: where to send the kids to school, where to work, where to live, when/if they should improve their home. . . . If I had the $250k or more, I'd consider myself wealthy because I'd be able to send my kid to a great private school, save money, build for retirement and make home improvements -- I'd love a bathroom with double sinks and no ugly wallpaper. I would have a better quality of life. I'd feel rich. And statistically in this country, I would be!"
Tom makes a lot of money
"I am one of those families that make over 250,000. Dan, contrary to the popular stereotype, I wasn't born with a silver spoon. My father worked at the Point. I grew up in Rosedale and went to that fine institution that is now called Towson University. Nothing fancy about me. . . . What I did was work between 60-70 hours a week for 20 years. I worked my way up the corporate ladder until I was making around 100,000. . . I pretty much had no life to speak of. Then I decided to start a business. My wife and I picked up the family moved and got in the ground floor of a new business. We risked everything. . . Last year we paid 87,500 in taxes. I think that is a lot of money, don't you? I have no problem with the middle class. I do have a problem with people that
feel they should get more of my hard earned money. I had the option of staying in a comfortable job making 65,000 a year and working 40 hours a week. But I chose to do something different and much harder. And for that, I guess I should be penalized."
Patty reflects on what's rich
"A few years ago, my then-6-year-old asked me, 'Mom? Are we poor?' I knew it was time to sit him down and tell him some of the facts of life. 'No, dear. We are not poor. As a matter of fact, we are stinking rich! We have all the food we could possibly want to eat and as much clean water as we want to drink! We live in this enormous house (2200 sq. ft) – why, in other parts of the world 10 families would live in a house this size! We have great schools, a safe neighborhood, great doctors and dentists, beautiful libraries – we have everything we need! Why do you ask if we’re poor?'
“'My friends live in bigger houses. They have video games. They have more toys than we do.'”
“'Yes, dear. Around here we don’t look rich because some of our friends are even richer than we are. We live in one of the richest communities, in one of the richest states, in one of the richest countries in the world. If we compare ourselves to the other people that live around us, we might feel as though we don’t have enough. But we have more than enough. We are very, very rich.'
"(From Webster’s New World Dictionary: rich, adj., 1. having more than enough of material possessions; owning much money or property; wealthy.)
"I take a lot of pleasure in hearing him repeat this to his younger brothers. Need I mention that we do not have a family income of $250,000? If those folks making over $250,000 aren't able to brag about their wealth the way I am, maybe they're just not managing it very well. I'd be glad to give them a few pointers.
"Hate to be a killjoy, but in my opinion, as Americans we each need to take a serious look at our life and how we are living it. We are a bloated, selfish nation that needs a big, ol’ slap upside the head to knock some sense into us. How can anyone enjoy the good life when we have become so aware of the tremendous damage that good life is causing? When there is so much abject misery in the world? And to think there are some people in the throes of 'the good life' who are whining that their life isn’t good enough! That they can 'only save $5,000 or $10,000 a year' after they’ve paid for their children’s private school education! Do they understand that $5000 equals the annual income of 14 families in some very populous parts of the world? Give it up – save a few lives. Be a sport.
"There was an article in the Sun a while ago that said research determined that a family needed an income of $58,000 to be happy. Then, they found, happiness diminished when income went over $150,000. Might I suggest that your affluent readers look at the choices that they are making in their lives? If they are not happy with what they see, perhaps they should make some changes – it may lead to increased happiness."
Winston counts SUVs to get his sense of the country
"Based on the number of big SUV's and limousines seen on the roads every day around this city, Baltimore must have a much higher percentage than 2% of all households making more than $250,000! . . . I do believe you should give credit where credit is due regarding the "wealthy", whatever that term means. Many in that category have risked their life-savings to start small businesses. They take out second mortgages, rely heavily on their ability to borrow, take unusual risks, because they are dedicated to doing well and hopefully being rewarded for their efforts. They cover payrolls when things are not going well, they pay their taxes on time. And they are also dedicated business people who want to grow their businesses. Don't discount their importance to the economy. Small businesses employ a large majority of the workers in America. Check the stats with US Chamber of NFIB. Don't disrespect the goose that laid the golden egg! It appears we are headed in that direction, and that scares me!"
Jerry doesn't like any candidate
"I am currently working hard for my $150,000+ salary so I don't have much time but just a few comments: There has always been a significant difference between haves and have-nots in American society and, I trust, in almost every society in history and at present times. Why the sudden preaching about it? You seem to ignore, or at least fail to mention, that most of those in the high income brackets work very hard to earn their money and in the case of entrepreneurs and business owners often took tremendous risks with their personal savings to start up and finance their fledging companies. Why are they being castigated now?
You, yourself, are a long standing newspaper reporter whose work I have generally enjoyed for many years. I assume you are not in the lower income categories, so do you feel guilty?
If the country has problems with infrastructure, people going hungry, etc. I can live with higher taxes - If I can feel that that extra money is being used in a careful and effective manner. Nothing I see from current or likely political parties gives me any confidence. The current four political candidates for President and Vice-President are an abomination and a horrible indictment of the political process. Why aren't any of you astute political opinionists writing anything about that situation?"
Bill makes an interesting point
If "going shopping" is considered "patriotic" (by Bush), then why is paying taxes "unpatriotic" (according to McCain)? And since McCain doesn't want to raise taxes to pay for the war in Iraq he supports so vigorously, how fair (and courageous) is it for him to effectively hand the bill for it to our children and grandchildren? John McCain talks about taking on and cleaning up Wall Street and greedy corporate CEO's. Boy, those tax cuts he wants to give them will really fix them, all right!
Ken comments on white-collar privileges
As a Guy out of work and struggling to save his home, Pests & Family, as well as being Deaf, as
well as hearing of hearing of this 700 Billion Bailout which failed to enforce any accountability on Wall Street, it simply goes to show that White Collar Crimes Pays Well! But let a blue-collar or poor person do something to try to survive and the Law is harsh an unrelenting in Jailing them for even minor offenses. Unfair laws in an unfair Nation that doesn’t care about others unless you got the money! Maybe it is time we have a Class War! Guarantee every American a Basic Salary and then maybe things in America would change! We also need to start cutting from the Top; Such as Politicians Salaries, and CEO Salaries etc. This is NOt Socialism but Social Reasonability for all Americans. I hope that is NOT too much to Ask for, in what is supposed to the Richest Nation on Earth!