Here is the link to the list of predator priests as chaplains in Military.

http://www.bishop-accountability.org/Military_Chaplains/

We urge anyone who has knowledge or may have been harmed by any of the priests on this list, to contact police, not church officials. Sex crimes, however old, should be investigated by the independent professionals in law enforcement, not the biased amateurs in church offices.

Keep in mind your silence only hurts, but by speaking up there is a chance for healing, exposing the truth, and therefore protecting others.

Judy Jones, SNAP Midwest Associate Director, 636-433-2511
"Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests"

Long list. Typical. AND, taxpayer dollars support these guys? The priest who abused me is on this list, the diocese knew. They are not learning, obviously. Until they do, if you know of abuse or even suspicion of abuse, please contact civil authorities. Do NOT give them money, do NOT give them your children. Do work to get SOL laws changed. We have to protect our kids, they are our future.

After reviewing Archbishop O’Brien and PR man Cain’s remarks I recommend they read “The Splendor of Truth an Encyclical Letter by John Paul II”. Then, read “Priests Accused of Sexual Misconduct, Who Worked as Military Chaplains or Chaplains at VA Hospitals: A Preliminary List” -- http://www.bishop-accountability.org/Military_Chaplains/ and a book on Statistical Analysis.

If they still don’t get it. It appears O’Brien and Caine put the same effort in their response that that O’Brien extended finding Military Chaplains who abused.

If they read the report still still believe their comments justified. It reminds of what a College Professor said: many can read, but few can comprehend.

Exposing Truth, Protecting Kids and Adults – Not Predators!
snapmd@comcast.net -- http://www.snapnetwork.org/

Sadly, it looks like catholic church hierarchy simply passed on the dysfunctional sex freaks to exploit the sons and daughters of our servicemen and women once they had exhausted victims within their own parishes.

Who's next?

Back to writing my book: The First Five Bishops You'll Meet in Hell.

Mike Ference

Maybe it should be: The First Five Hundred Bishops You'll Meet in Hell?

Sadly, it looks like catholic church hierarchy simply don't give a damn about innocent children; God's most precious commodity. When the dysfunctional sex freaks run out of victims within their own parishes, church hierarchy simply decides to exploit the sons and daughters of our servicemen and women.

What next?

Back to writing my book, The First Five Bishop You'll Meet in Hell!

Mike Ference

Maybe it should be, The First Five Hundred Bishops You'll Meet in Hell?

Knowing the centuries old and criminal protection of priests and bishops over the protection of women and children, no one should be surprised by the current revelation. Bjshops continue to fight access to clergy personnel records, explaining that it is a matter of respect for personal privacy. We all know that the real reason is that they don't want to be held accountable for not reporting abuse to civil authorities. Jeb Barrett, Denver SNAP Director

My wife was victimized by a priest as a 16-year old. She remained loyal to the Church and worked in a parish for years until recently a different priest berated her repeatedly over a period of a week until she resigned, a nervous wreck; in essence, re-victimizing her. Despite many letters to Archbishop O'Brien and others, no apology, no acceptance of responsibility. When will bishops began holding priests accountable to the gospel and the church's own teachings? Is reconciliation a hollow gesture for priests and bishops?

It is a given the church and hierarchy wil do and say anything to cover up and protect themselves. I guess they want us to look at all the good things they do and ignore the raped children and pained families. W"hat would Jesus do"?

While not "policy" it was quite a common practice to take "problem priests" and place them in ministries outside of parishes. A problem priest may be one with long hair, or poor sermons, or too liberal or conservative, or rode a motorcycle etc. And parishioners constantly complained. The priest would be assigned to a hospital, or college campus and even sent to the military. In Boston Tom Forry had a colored record - throwing housekeeper down stairs, sexual encounters with women, abusing their children. He refused therapy and was allowed to go in the Army as chaplain! Need I say more?? If Boston did it you can be sure they all did it!!

I am saddened that our new bishop O'Brien is implicated in this. I had hoped that finally there would be someone in the Archdiocese of Baltimore that I could trust. It is difficult to heal from abuse when justice is illusive.

SNAP did a thorough investigation, and they are super aggressive, and found the stunning number of 100 priests over 50 years?!? That is 2 per year! That is enough that it's quite credible no one would even know. But if a superior or fellow priest did know, obviously there is no plan, cover up or organized plot on the part of the Church. That is simply ridiculous. 2 people per year from thousands. This means nothing. SNAP is an extremist organization, it is political, they hate priests, they malign the church. They give a bad name to the many victim organizations out there. I'm all for slamming child molesters, religious or not, but please don't believe SNAP has only that as their agenda. Anything from them is suspect, as shown by these meaningless "statistics" and flamboyant conclusions.

I was sexually abused by a Catholic Army chaplain when I was an innocent and vulnerable young Catholic adult. Now I recognize that this priest "groomed" me for 3 months to break down my religious, psychological and sexual defenses, before I agreed to have a sexual relationship with him. At the time I thought we were "dating." Now I recognize that this chaplain was not interested in me as a person at all; I was a temporary, convenient way for him to get his sexual desires fulfilled.

This priest eventually told me that he had joined the military so that he could break his vows of poverty, celibacy and obedience in an environment that his religious order would know nothing about; the Army wouldn't care. And he expected to have the security of the religious order to take care of him when he reached the age of retirement.

Every time the Army transferred him to a new location, this priest would look for a woman that he could manipulate ("groom") into a sexual relationship for the duration of the time he lived in that location. Then he would move on to the next location and the next woman.

Now I recognize that my relationship with this priest was not dating, was not consensual, as he had a hidden agenda and he had continually lied to me about his intentions. This was sexual abuse. The military chaplaincy made it easy for this priest to get what he wanted.

This happened to me many years ago and it changed the course of my faith, of my relationship with the church, of my life. I was overcome with guilt and shame. I was afraid to tell anyone about what had happened, because I thought that I would be judged and condemned. My shameful secret created walls between me and my family, between me and my Catholic friends.

Keeping the secret seemed my only option. I imagine that there are many other women who are keeping similar secrets about abusive relationships with priests. I am beginning to talk about it now because I now can recognize the effect of this priest's psychological manipulation, his grooming of me. After many, many years, now I can understand that IT WAS NOT MY FAULT!

While one of the most senior Catholic military chaplains in Hawaii, I sent Archbishop O'Brien a letter dated May 6, 2002 in which I wrote, “A person, particularly a leader, must take pride in the institution in which he serves. When a Catholic chaplain does not return hospitality because he does not want me to meet his live-in boy friend...how can I feel pride in serving with such Catholic chaplains?” Archbishop O'Brien neither acknowledged nor answered my letter. Five years later in 2007 when a former enlisted Marine disclosed that he was forced to take nude pictures of the chaplain with the live in boyfriend during a "counseling" session, an investigation was triggered that led to the priest's arrest. When the priest was charged with “forcible sodomy and aggravated assault” after having sexual relations with military personnel while he was HIV positive, the Archdiocese for the Military Services issued a statement that it was unaware Lee's sexual activities. During testimony given at his court martial, the chaplain acknowledged that he had “many sexual partners, including many service members, officer and enlisted.” I'm quite sure that Archbishop O'Brien would say today that he never received my communications in which I expressed concern about the sexual exploits of the Catholic chaplains under his jurisdiction.

So Rose you are saying that as an adult you had a sexual relationship with a man you say “groomed you” but what most of us would say flirted with you or maybe even seduced you. You say that he was “was not interested in [you] as a person at all.” And you say that you were “a temporary, convenient way for him to get his sexual desires fulfilled.”

You also say that at the time you thought you were dating.

It sounds to me like the sob story of every woman who has had an affair with a married man. The only twist was that your man was married to the church. He should not have been crawling between the sheets with you and you, as a self described “innocent” Catholic should not have been offering your favors.

You were an adult Rose. Go to confession and pray that your paramour does the same and then get over it. You were as much at fault as he was.

Rose: Thank you for courage. It will help others.

The church has taught the sheep well. Image I have dialogued with survivors who were abused when they between 2 to 10. They were told it was their fault for tempting the priest. Sadly, some of the folks in pews believe it. One needs only to observe how O’Brien handled Timothy Fells affairs with no real preventive actions. If I remember correctly we had at least 3 women who told SNAPMD representatives of affairs with Fell. A woman who had been raped by a priest in confession at a confirmation retreat talked and had fellowship with the 3 who I was told went to the archdiocese, plus others decided not to go after they saw O’Brien non action. Which was a scandals to them. They know they were take sexual advantage of by Fell. Tim’s affairs are a criminal action for most folks in Power or Counseling positions. But, the Maryland Catholic Conference spends many thousands of dollars to persuade the Maryland Legislation to protect the powerful Catholic Church over the faithful. They are successful year by year weaken the Clergy reporting requirements to the point that cover-up artists like O’Brien have the nerve to do nothing but take extreme liberties with the truth to men like Lee and Fell rather than the Catholic Faithful.

George Costigan, Stephen Jeslnick are Matthew Lee are 3 Maryland examples of O’Brien contracting and protecting predators -- http://www.bishop-accountability.org/Military_Chaplains/ -- 95 named and documentation of Catholic Chaplains who abused before, during or after. Military service is enough documentation for O’Brien who somehow justifies 2 without naming them.

O’Brien submitted 2 unnamed priest to the John Jay Report for abusing from 1950 – 2002. -- Statement to the Priest Chaplains of the Archdiocese of the Military Services on the "Scandal Studies" -- by Archbishop Edwin F. O'Brien (February 2004) Also, Cardinal Law and 2 of other bishops letters verifying dumping of perverts into the services materials may be view. We decided to just show 3, we have more.

O’Brien claimed the Military Archdiocese was more pure than Ivory soap and the John Paul II -- a man who is most likely orchestrated the largest cover-up of child sexual abuse in the history of the world let him get away with it. He even had him lead the American Seminary investigations.

A reasonable and rational person would think O’Brien’s claim of the Military Archdiocese being Ivory soap 99.44% pure is suspicious. Why the John Jay Report did accept it without question? They were looking for the next gig and were greasing the skids to get it. I image O’Brien’s investigation in the seminary report would equal the lack of quality of his John Jay work.
A detective on a TV show asks and answered. How the Catholic Church get a way with rape and murder. -- Self Evaluation. Review the 3 Irish Reports, the Boston, Philadelphia, 1 and 2 Grand Jury reports. There is a very big gap from the Self Evaluation John Jay.

Exposing Truth
Protecting Kids and Adults – Not Predators!
snapmd@comcast.net -- http://www.snapnetwork.org/

Unfortunately for the people at SNAP I am literate. I can also deduct reasonable conclusions from facts presented. These abilities mean I could review the source documents and learn they do not say what SNAP thinks they say. A link to the Bishop Accountablity site has been posted. Review the first 15 cases and see if the facts equal what SNAP is saying.

Please note the number of priests who were made military chaplains once accusations of abuse were made to the Diocese.

Please note the number of priests who were accused while the alleged abuse was occuring and while they were serving as chaplains.

Please note the number of accusations that came to light years after alleged occurance or actual occurance.

Please note the number of priests who were accused of committing abuse during their years as chaplains.

Remember too that an accusation even when not found to be credible is enough to warrant inclusion on this list.
Also criminal violations against adults is included.

Frank how exactly does an adult admitting to havinfg a sexual affair with a priest help children? I'm not defending the priests actions, but Rose is hardly an innocent victim. I'd also like to see a response to Paula's email. One of SNAP's more popular tactics is to try and overload information to paint a picture that isn't quite what SNAP claims. It comes back to my orginal questions about your organization's purpose. Are you really interested in protecting kids, especially today's kids not kids from 20 - 30 years ago who are now adults? It sure seems like you are more interested in retribution then protecting kids.

Anonymous:
I am very ANGRY with your insults and judgments especially about Rose. You are insulting and completely uniformed on the trauma caused by a grooming rapist.

--HE GROOMED HER! –

You have the nerve to judge. Who the HELL do you think you are? I don't know Rose, but I do know survivors GROOMED. Consider the power of a Catholic Priest. He enjoys an enviable status in hierarchical systems – the church. He deals with younger adults, many whom are just finding themselves. So they are even more vulnerable to an abusive cleric. This crime is calculated. Anyone else in a power position like a priest would be arrested, but our church protects these perverts.

You ask why? -- Exposing Truth -- Protecting Kids and Adults – Not Predators! The way you asked the question was insulting.

If you believe children are safer in Maryland since 2002 Bsihps Charteryou believe O'Brien number of just 2 from out of 850 for 50 years with disqualifiers that just about eliminating everybody but a left handed red head born on odd number days in February.

I belivve Paula reading just 15 is more effort than O'Brien did finding 2 for the Churches self evaluation John Jay Report.

Associated Press -- Oct. 12, 2003 -- 25 predators -- Catholic sex abuse scandal widens in military -- Matt Kelley - Associated Press -- http://www.snapnetwork.org/news/otherstates/scandal_in_military.htm -- 25 abusers presented, 21 names & 4 court martial whose names were not given either by Navy or Church. It appears the Navy and the Church was doing their jobs of protecting the institutions not the service person or faithful.

http://www.bishop-accountability.org/Military_Chaplains/ has 3 letters of recommendations Bishops including Cardinal Law. He definitely is the example of how the church rewards those who protect perps, rapist and criminals. Sadly, we are aware of other Bishops who dump into the service and additional abusive chaplains.

Our armed forces deserve the best, not the worst. Our men and women in uniform deserve honesty, not deceit.

I am troubled by the lack of real honesty about and accountability for child and adult sex crimes and cover ups in the military by Catholic chaplains. Very few Catholic institutions anywhere merit such an investigation more than Catholic military chaplains and their supervisors.

Much has been made, rightly so, of the recent Philadelphia grand jury report. It shows, in devastating detail, that despite repeated pledges of reform, little has changed in the Catholic hierarchy regarding child sex crimes.

But it bears remembering that the Philadelphia report is no aberration. Virtually every time governmental officials launch a real investigation into Catholic institutions – in the US and more recently in Ireland – a stunningly similar pattern of recklessness, callousness and deceit is revealed. We have every reason to suspect that a probe into military chaplains would uncover the same horrific wrong-doing. Such an investigation is long overdue. Such an investigation is also the first step toward making military families safer from predatory priests.

Exposing Truth
Protecting Kids and Adults – Not Predators!
snapmd@comcast.net -- http://www.snapnetwork.org/

Frank you are angered because you don't want to admit the truth. You are so caught up in your vengence you are willing to accept anything without question. A woman has an affair with a priest which she entered into willingly and you equate that to rape. Clearly you have lost any objectivity.

Rose was no child taken advantage of by a predatory priest. She was an adult fully aware of what she was doing. How do you groom an adult for rape? her problem is she did something she knows is wrong and instead of taking responsibility for her own fault she casts all the blame at the priest. This isn't a case of child molestation or abuse. No crime was committed her Frank. A priest violated his vow and a woman had sex with a priest. Anything else claimed by her or you is a LIE.

It's nosense like that that completely discredits what you claim you and your organization stand for. I also noticxed you didn't actually answer Paula's questions directly. You posted more links in an attempt to overwhelm with information to paint th illusion you want. Try answers the actual questions she asked Frank instead of attacking me for pointing out the lunacy of the claims made by an adult trying to blame someone else for their mistakes and your inability to see it.

Anonymous: Bless me father for I have sinned. After your judgmental response on Tuesday, I went to Confession. I feel cleansed for there is Justifiable Anger and Vengeance is the Lord’s. 3 days with more than usual prayer, meditation, reflections and works of Charity. Friday, I received an interesting unsolicited messages form a spiritual friend: “A Survival Guide for Thinking Catholics: Conscience and the Roman Catholic Life” by Tom Reese, SJ”, http://www.scu.edu/ethics/publications/submitted/reese/conscience.html

Then my usually weekly message from a former priest and I believe friend of noted Notre Dame Theologian Richard McBrien sent. “Philadelphia and the Sexual Abuse Crisis”, Week of April 4, 2011, ESSAYS IN THEOLOGY, by Rev. Richard P. McBrien. These words specifically touch me: “The Pauline disciple responsible for Ephesians hits this faith-nail on the head.”You were once in darkness," he or she reminds the community, "but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of the light!"

The risen Jesus calls us to be light in a world filled with darkness. Our mission is first to open our own eyes, then help others open theirs. We're here to expose a world existing all around us; a world we rarely notice.

When we do this, we become part of a consistent biblical tradition. Yahweh always demands we focus on reality as Yahweh focuses; the same way Yahweh's Son Jesus teaches us to focus."

Peace, Hope and Grace

Truth is the solution, thus:

Exposing Truth

Protecting Kids and Adults – Not Predators!

snapmd@comcast.net -- http://www.snapnetwork.org/

Frank Dingle,
Anonymouse is on a quest to defend his church at all cost--the Catholic church has caused so much misery across the world, it has to be eradicated in its current form. It is the apologists of the ilk of Anonymouse who keep the damn shebang going in its current corrupted state. In sending these predators to the military the Catholic church has once more shown it is no more than a conclave of good old boys who will do anything to survive--the great emotional cost they inflict on their victims be damned. You ought to give up your futile fight with Anonymouse--the man is out to prove that your motives are impure and your pursuit of the church on behalf of victims is the blind vengeance of a disgruntled man. Watch out--Anonymouse will tell me that my agenda does not smell like roses either and that I must be a defrocked priest. If I have ever been a priest nothing could be more delightful than a defrocking to me. I wish a grand culmination to your cause Dingle--but somehow I don't believe that abuse of innocents will ever cease in the Catholic church-this is a sewer of predators, with tributaries all across the world that you are contending with.
R Anon

Anonymous: I made a mistake. Above, I mix ed O’Brien and Karbon. That said, I feel Karbon was the kinder and gentler. “Philadelphia and the Sexual Abuse Crisis” http://ncronline.org/blogs/essays-theology/philadelphia-and-sexual-abuse-crisis

I feel John's Gospel reading APRIL 3, 2011: FOURTH SUNDAY OF LENT illustrates why many feel the Pharisees are the modern day Hierarchy with their actions and non actions causing division in the faithful.

--I Samuel 16:1b, 6-7, 10-13a Ephesians 5:8-14 John 9:1-41 -- Commentary on the Sunday Readings by Rev. Roger Karban which may explain some of our differences.

. . . . "Jesus said, 'I came into this world for judgment, so that those who do not see might see, and those who do see might become blind.'"

. . . . As we so frequently hear in our Sacred Scriptures, faith is rooted in seeing things other people overlook, an aspect of biblical faith perfectly demonstrated in our I Samuel reading.

If any of you have yet to read the first chapters of Chabris and Simons' The Invisible Gorilla, I'd suggest you'd do so soon. They'll go a long way in helping you understand today's three readings. *This reading is very interesting.
http://bacherozzo.tripod.com/id2.html Karban’s 4th Sunday of Lent Complete Commentary.

Peace, Hope and Grace

TRUTH is the solution, thus:

Exposing Truth

Protecting Kids and Adults – Not Predators!

snapmd@comcast.net -- http://www.snapnetwork.org/

R Anon: This is not about the Catholic Religion. It is the Catholic Faith. Sadly, some don’t know the difference.

The Holy See started to abandoned the Catholic Faith and the worshiping the False God of MONEY when they went against Jesus example and declared celibacy a requirement for the Priesthood. Sadly, this was centuries after they started covering up child abuse.

O’Brien submitted 2 un-named child abusers in the 52 year John Jay Report. At that time, there were about 850 Catholic Military Chaplain. The JJR February 2004 Military percentage was one of lowest reported. That 7 year old document demonstrates his lack of truthfulness or his incompetence.

A comparison example is that Cardinal Keeler submitted over 80 cases, naming over 50, but leaving 23 un-named, out of 280 priests. This was more in line with the rest of the country.

95 names were listed on http://www.bishop-accountability.org/Military_Chaplains/ Dozens O’Brien should have known are included. They abused children during his leadership time. He forgot dozens more who abuse before he became Archbishop. These dozens are Child Abusers. Yes, we included Adults because even the military believe abusing adults is wrong. But, it appears O’Brien didn’t. He ignored military law and the commandments. Some say, he a cafeteria Catholic.

Oct. 12, 2003 -- 25 predators -- Catholic sex abuse scandal widens in military -- Matt Kelley - Associated Press -- http://www.snapnetwork.org/news/otherstates/scandal_in_military.htm

25 abusers presented, 20 named & 5 were not given either by Military or Catholic Military Archdiocese. Again, O’Brien did choose to protect the institutions. He left Catholic military faithful and their families in harms way. How did O’Brien miss this article? He was asleep, incompetent, etc., or put in even less effort than Paula.

Anonymous asked: why Paula’s questions were not answered? They were sophomoric and showed a complete lack of understanding of sexual abuse. However, they were not as elementary as O’Brien’s comments in the paper about the 7 year old document

Peace, Hope and Grace

TRUTH is the solution, thus:

Exposing Truth

Protecting Kids and Adults – Not Predators!

snapmd@comcast.net -- http://www.snapnetwork.org/

R Anon why would I tell you what you already know. Your hatred of religion especially the Catholic CHurch is obvious.

As for my interaction with Frank as usual you let your own hate blind your objectivity. I'm as ashamed and outraged as anyone over the actions and inactions of the church as it relates to the abuse scandal. My concern with Frank is like you I think he allows his own anger to cloud his objectivity.

Maybe one time you could actually make a post where use you logic and reason to make your point as opposed to ridicule and mocking.

Frank I didn't bother reading your response after you chose to use the same tactics of ridicule and mocking as R Anon. I had expected more of you as someone claiming to be Christian. Attacking me is one thing but to mockingly use language from confession was completely uncalled for.

You need to resort to insults and ridicule expose the truth about you, your intentions and your organization. Truly you are blinded by hate. I feel sorry for you because in your zeal to attack and gain retribution you do nothing to help fix the vary things you rail against. Maybe that's what you want. It certainly keeps your trial lawyer masters profitable.

Hate, anger and vengence solve nothing. I can't help but wonder how much of what you do is because you care about victims and how much is simply done out of hate and anger. I pray I'm wrong about you, but nothing in your posts leads me to believe I am.

Give me a break Ravensfan--you may hide behind Anonymous but you have Ravensfan written all over you--you are a scolding schoolmarm no matter what you call yourself.
R Anon

R Anon If you want to use some other id to label me go right ahead. You're buddy Littel already has one based on Clay so why shouldn't you have your own. Is that really all you can do ridicule and name call? Try clearing your mind sometime of preconcieved notions, anger and hate and you might be surprised what you find.

Ravensfan is a marvelous creature Anonymous--you should be proud to be mistaken?? for him.
R Anon

That you chose to use the word creature as opposed to something like person or indvidual says quite a bit about how you view people R Anon.

We all belong to the animal kingdom Anonymous--don't be so prim-- let your hair down a bit --it will do you a world of good.
R Anon

It wasn't aware that referring people as human beings was being prim. I also wasn't aware that to let ones hair meant being rude and insensitive.

Maybe you could explain something for me in my primness. Why the only time I've seen you use that type of description is when mentioning those who share different views than yours?

Anonymous: My confession, prayer, meditation and reflection response was and is TRUTH. Confession is part our FAITH. I took your accusation of anger serious and address it in the sacrament.

Peace, Hope and Grace

TRUTH is the solution, thus: Exposing Truth

Protecting Kids and Adults – Not Predators!

snapmd@comcast.net -- http://www.snapnetwork.org/

Frank I have to ask your forgiveness for questioning your motives. That was not Christian of me. While you and I may not see the issue the same way it does no good to vent anger at each other.

Anonymous: You are forgiven and correct about the anger thing. At least we care enough to become angry even though we are 180 apart. I believe God loves us both and we are both serving him.

Peace and Grace

Frank Thank you Peace and Grace to you as well.

Frank I have no desire to get into an argument with you. I believe we both care about the issue. I do have a few questions for you.

Why has there been no consideration by the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child for the initial reports submitted? More importantly what useful point does submitting various reports to an agency like the UN accomplish? While well intentioned the UN has no binding authority on any nation.

While I agree with you that more needs to be done do you have information on the change in numbers of abuse reported or something that would indicate what the progress or lack of is from decades ago to now. I would agree with anyone who says even one case is unacceptable.

Lastly I've ready SNAP's criticism of Vatican actions as well as those of UCCB. Does SNAP or you have what you believe are the steps that need to be taken.

May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the holy Spirit be with you.

Anonymous: Here is a message I just sent to Child Protection of the Archdioceses of Baltimore regarding Fr. JOHN LIPPOLD abuse.

--------------------

Alison:

Photographs of Father John Lippold would help find survivors!

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-md-ci-priest-abuse-20110519,0,2877815.story

FYI: September 2008 SNAP Maryland was contact from a former St. Philip and James parishioner who told me she was abused in the 60's. This survivor lived in Salisbury, Maryland and if I recall correctly was recently widow. While in the initial communication our contact information was lost.

No photograph were extremely frightening to survivors when Commander Lee the HIV positive chaplain at the Naval Academy photos were never released. The photographs should at least be one for ever decade, so survivors could recognize the abusers at the appropriate age.

Actually, it was survivors outrage over O’Brien lack of action involving Lee that brought on the
investigation that found over a 100 Military Chaplains compared to his reported 2 to John Jay. http://www.bishop-accountability.org/Military_Chaplains/

Thank you,

Frank Dingle

---------------------------

I estimate nearly 50 Catholic Clergy or employees, volunteer abusers, rapist have articles publish, court cases, etc. in the State of Maryland who abused from 2001 to 2008. That is an average of about 5 a year. Actually, 5

I f I recall correctly the John Jay report states there were about 136 from 1952 to 2002. That is an average of about 2.5. However, I am counting adults for abuse and rape at any age is a crime and sin. I believe the names of these rapist and abusers was submitted the in Good Faith in July 2010 to the same question.

I will respond to other stuff later as I very busy

Peace, Hope and Grace

TRUTH is the solution, thus: Exposing Truth

Protecting Kids and Adults – Not Predators!

snapmd@comcast.net -- http://www.snapnetwork.org/

Frank thanks for the response. Actually that wasn't what I had in mind. I was thinking more along the lines of what needs to be done to prevent future abuse that isn't being done.

Your recollection of your information of information appears to be a bit sketchy. If I understood the article correctly the archdiocese contacted the police when the allegations were made. While the article mentions the investigation stalled there is no indication it was hindered in any way by the archdiocese. After that the archdiocese got permission from the police to conduct its own investigation which is ongoing. Despite denying the allegation the archdiocese revoked Lippold's authority to act as a priest. They are also continuing the investigation. I see no reason for SNAP to go mining for victims at this point. I hate to say that in comes off sounding like a witch hunt on your part then an objective investigation. Obviously the archdiocese believes there is truth to the claims. Maybe you should be pushing the police to do more investigating.

The problem priest in the military besides being irrelevant to this case is still somewhat murky as well. It looks like an attempt to overwhelm with details making it difficult to sift through and verify the validity of the claim that problem priests were knowingly sent to the military.

While I agree rape and abuse are both terrible sins and crimes. Priests having consensual sex with adults while a breaking of vows and sinful is not a crime.

Anonymous: O’Brien reporting 2 Military Chaplains with over a 100 in public records make it quite clear: Something’s rotten in the Vatican. http://www.bishop-accountability.org/Military_Chaplains/

Good folks can examine and review the same information and reach entirely different conclusions. That being said, my last response was a message in process that went out while composing by error without a back-up copy. It wasn’t what, I wanted to say. So, I will try again.

Archbishop Edwin F. O’Brien and his PR folks often present words that are not facts. Simply put: Our children and grandchildren are NO SAFER in the Archdioceses of Baltimore NOW as they were before the 2002 USCCB Charter to Protect Children.

Archdioceses of Baltimore Cardinal Keeler reported 83 abusers from 1950 to 2002. 1.6 Per year. SNAP MD knows of 13 Church related abusers or 1.86 from 2002 to 2008. They have abused 45. 24 children and 21 adults were raped and abused. That averages about 6 a year which is greater than know SNAPMD Baltimore Catholic church abused from 50 - 02.

JOHN LIPPOLD'S photographs are needed to help find additional survivors is what I was trying to say. I believe I talked to one of his survivors in the past and am confident there are more. PHOTOTGRAPHS are needed.

HIV POSITIVE, Cmdr. Lt. Fr. John Thomas Matthew Lee, 42, -- Naval Academy Chaplain had newspaper accounts while HIV he had sex with 17 as part of a plea-bargaining agreement. No LEE photographs were ever offered. He lived in Annapolis for several years and had excess to 17 year old cadets besides Annapolis children and adults. I have talked to a survivor whose child is still a cadet at the academy who had contact with Lee while 17 and actually younger since they met on college visits. How many other children were in harms way with no photograph supplies by either the Military or Church. 5 Court Marshaled Catholic Chaplains name were left off our list for O’Brien, Army or Navy felt it was important to inform service persons and families.

May 21, 2011, Saturday, another HIV POSITIVE, no photograph case following O'Brien example was reported in Rome. Arrested Italian priest confirms he is HIV positive. http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/europe/news/article_1640562.php/Arrested-Italian-priest-confirms-he-is-HIV-positive

Why are other child abusers photographs offered? Baltimore Co. attorney, magician arrested in child sex sting in Fla. http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-county/bs-md-co-attorney-arrested-20110523,0,528734.story

TRUTH is the solution, thus: Exposing Truth

Protecting Kids and Adults – Not Predators!

snapmd@comcast.net -- http://www.snapnetwork.org/

Frank the information on the military was not clear in making your case. The conclusions drawn by others doesn’t make your claim valid even if your assertion on their conclusions is correct. Your unwillingness to simplify and clarify it can only lead to the conclusion it doesn’t support your claims. What you provided was a lot of information in a difficult to follow format. Why do that unless the evidence isn’t as convincing so it’s manipulated in a format that appears to give it more credibility then it has in fact.

The issue is protecting children not adults. Why bring claims of adults into this? Adults are far less vulnerable than children. I’ve not heard anything on that topic myself. Could you provide more information on these so called 21 adult cases of rape and abuse. Do you have anything to support they weren't mutual consent that are now being claimed as rape. The only time you mentioned that in the past sounded much more like mutual consent then any case of rape or abuse.

You adding adults into the more recent figures comes appears to be an attempt to distort figures. Why use SNAP figures at all for that matter. What vetting process does SNAP use to weed out bogus claims from valid ones? It really looks like your comparing apples and oranges in order to sell the idea that nothing has changed.

You believe you spoke to a survivor from Lippold so that means you are entitled to photographs to go on a witch hunt for victims. You can’t even say you definitely have a victim and you want pictures. Sorry but given SNAP’s own tendency towards guilt until proven innocence but I see no need to help you mine for victims.

As for the Lee case everything I read indicated his encounters were with men not children. If you know situation where kids were abused why not report it to the military? As in other situations your information is questionable and subjective. Why not lobby Congress to look into it. It sounds like you want to be provided photos to do your own investigation to mine for victims. SNAP mining for victims would hardly be an objective investigation.

http://www.themediareport.com/feb2011/snap-misleads-false-accusations.htm

I want predators punished as much as you. That is a job for the civil authorities not the church and not SNAP.

Anonymous: TRUTH and Exposing lack of truth is the way to prevention.

“Abuse alleged against retired priest by former parishioner” an above previous link article contains typical Church speak. “As a result of the meeting, the Archdiocese revoked Lippold's authority to act as a priest.

"Nothing he said deterred us from taking that action," Caine said Thursday.

Caine said Thursday that while no other allegations have been made against Lippold, the Archdiocese is continuing to investigate.”

This is 2011, in my opinion any investigation without photographs is PR, not a genuine effort to find survivors as the wording implies. In my interpretation of St. John Paul II’s encyclical “Splendor of Truth” I have to agree this is another way of lying. True investigations should use all tools available for success or it is just PR games. It is not just, or fair to the faithful, survivors and Fr. Lippold.

Sorry, 100 Catholic Military Chaplain Sex Abuse verified offenses including about half dozen church cover-up documents doesn’t cut it for you. Actually I think Kevin Kreneck’s sketch above Archbishops O’Brien’s, “We can’t let it happen again”, 5/22/11 Sun Commentary had folks like you in mind.

Ten Commandments, Trinity—God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, believers and non-believers in God’s laws, criminal law of almost all faiths, tribes and societies, etc. feeling sexually abusing children and adults is wrong. It is self evident.

The Media Report link you provided again in my opinion is an authors attempt to sell a book. The premise fails dramatically in comparison with all the grand jury report, national and international reports. http://www.bishop-accountability.org/AtAGlance/reports.htm , http://www.bishop-accountability.org/AtAGlance/church_docs.htm in addition to the recent released John Jay Report and Amnesty Internal Reports.

Your Lee comment's, again reinforce Kreneck’s graphic image. For years this rapist had contact with children and nobody cares. No, I don’t know he abused a child. Does anybody know he didn’t. So, does that mean we don’t investigate? Just lake Lippold it was done without public photos. Here, our Church action is a lie according to St. John Paul II.

Again, in my opinion the Military and Church not offering photograph to the public under the HIV circumstance was and is CRIMINAL. Why Maryland Police, Anne Arundel Police and Annapolis Police didn’t run an investigation in beyond comprehension?

SNAP is for prevention, protecting survivors and helping them heal.

The Church claims to do the same. But, there actions, speak louder than there words. Sadly, they have abandoned Truth, sacramental traditions and as one Catholic Theologian shared. They now are honoring false gods of money and power, etc.

TRUTH is the solution, thus: Exposing Truth

Protecting Kids and Adults – Not Predators!

snapmd@comcast.net -- http://www.snapnetwork.org/

Frank your opinion about the Lippold investigation ignores the fact that the police had already investigated. Are you honestly saying that if there are others, a fact that an independent police investigation failed to establish, those people wouldn’t know the name of the priest who abused them? More likely giving SNAP a picture will produce bogus claims looking to cash in on what they see as easy money. Since SNAP apparently makes no attempt to investigate the validity of any claims but accepts all as truth why should pictures be provided.? Your argument lacks substance here. Maybe it’s time you considered if there is some truth lacking from your organization. The truth is the archdiocese isn’t even obligated to investigate since the police already have yet they believe there may be something to claims so they are investigating. You apparently don’t have anything to support your claims and want to have pictures to drum up claims.

What doesn’t cut it for me is your attempt to throw out a great deal of details which are difficult to follow to support your claims. Your continued refusal to simply and prove what I asks can only lead to two conclusions. You can’t or won’t. Both severely weaken your claims. Your so called proof in my opinion is an attempt to make it appear as if you have evidence where it isn’t clear you do. Unless SNAP is objectively investigating abuse claims none of your figures are reliable for use in any comparison. As a support group I wouldn’t expect you question anyone claiming abuse but accept what they say. At least that is the impression the SNAP website gave me. You are manipulating your sources in order to paint the picture you want not what it is.

I also didn’t appreciated the inference that because I question your information and asked you to clearly untangle it and clearly show that problem priests were knowingly sent to the military that somehow that makes me less of a good than someone who simply accepts your convoluted and overly detailed information. Since you brought up the ten commandments as well as other criminal law you might want to keep in mind what they say about bearing false witness against ones neighbor. Your opinion on the link I gave didn’t refute it simply tried to marginalize it and attack the authors. Your link follows your usual pattern of trying to overwhelm with detail. It’s interesting that you can summarize things when it suits your argument and other times you use documents that would take inordinate amounts of time to sift through.

Maybe you should consider that there might have been reasons why the various police departments you mentioned ran no investigations. Maybe it’s time you consider that some of what you think you have isn’t as reliable as you think it is. Maybe it’s also time you answer some of the questions I asked instead of repeating the same old claims and rhetoric. Maybe it’s time you stop perpetuating the SNAP propaganda that nothing has been done. When you can produce objective which are consistent in what they look at and from an unbiased source (not SNAP or the church) that nothing has improved I’ll buy that. I good start would be honest answers to my questions you keep avoiding.

Anonymous: Archbishop O’Brien reported TWO military abusers from 1952 – 2002 in 2/2004. Google check: 10/2003 AP reports about 2 dozen. http://www.snapnetwork.org/news/otherstates/scandal_in_military.htm

Bishop Accountability now list nearly a 100 not included 4 Navy disciplined for sexual misconduct 1994 to 99 and 1 Army Chaplain in above AP Article. BA does include links to O’Brien’s Statement of 2, Cardinal and Bishops recommendations of known abusive priest. http://www.bishop-accountability.org/Military_Chaplains/ and news and/or court or media verifications.

Sorry! You choose not to comprehend.

Exposing Truth – Protecting Kids and Adults – Not Predators!
snapmd@comcast.net -- http://www.snapnetwork.org/

Frank I comprehend all too well. I suspect that's what frustrates you. I won’t blindly accept your claims. I won’t be impressed by propaganda websites that try and overwhelm with data to paint the illusion they back claims. Your continued mentioning of sites with incomplete, inaccurate or some cases misleading and carefully mined data as opposed to answering simple questions tells me all I need to know. Your failure to provide clear examples that support your claims and show Your failure to address the situation where SNAP was making wrong allegations and instead attack the authors confirms it as well. Your failure to address anything in my last post tells me you are looking at the problem subjectively and not objectively.

When you provide clear honest facts that support your claims I'll be the first to agree with you. Nothing from SNAP qualifies as it's already been established that SNAP is not objective in its approach. I’ve never denied the problems or the church’s failure. What I question is the continued propaganda that nothing has been done and your inaccurate tag line “Protecting Kids and Adults – Not Predators”!” From the posts I’ve seen a better one would be “Punish the Church for its Crimes and Sins of the Past”. I have seen nothing that talks about what can be done to protect kids know. I even asked some questions and received no meaningful response.

Maybe if your organization wasn’t in bed with trial lawyers you might be able to look at future prevention not just punishment for what’s already occurred.

Frank I happened to notice the following disclaimer from bishop accountability

"BishopAccountability.org makes no claim regarding the accuracy of any document we post."

With a disclaimer like that why should anyone take anything posted as accurate. You might want to consider that the one chosing not to comprehend is you my friend.

Anonymous: Failure by the bishops as the essential cause of the phenomenon of sexual abuse of children and minors by clerics was the conclusions of 17 reports on clergy sexual abuse that have been published between 1989 and 2011.

Most of these are from official sources such as the U.S. grand juries, the three Irish reports (Ferns, Ryan, Murphy) or the two Canadian reports that resulted from the Mt. Cashel debacle of the eighties. Others are from Church sources such as the National Review Board Report of 2004, The Bernardin Report of 1992 or Church sponsored reports such as the Defenbaugh Report (Chicago, 2006) or the first John Jay Report from 2004. Most of the reports contained a section on causality. None of the reports said anything about the effect of the culture of the sixties or seventies as a factor of causality but every one of them pointed to the various kinds and levels of failure by the bishops as the essential cause of the phenomenon of sexual abuse of children and minors by clerics.*

* “Arrogant clericalism' never assessed in John Jay report” -- http://www.ncronline.org/news/accountability/arrogant-clericalism-never-assessed-john-jay-report

Honestly, I think you refuse to comprehend! Report, after report—you find an excuse not to face the facts. Are you a bishop?

Exposing Truth – Protecting Kids and Adults – Not Predators!

snapmd@comcast.net - http://www.snapnetwork.org/

Frank what facts am I failing to face? I never denied or defended what has happened. I am well aware that there was abuse and that the bishops not only failed to deal with it but are responsible for its continuance with their actions and inactions during the time periods in question. I’m aware the Church still needs to do more.

What I refuse to accept is SNAP’s and your misstatements. I’ve asked many simple questions that should have been easy to answer if what you claimed was valid. Now you choose to attack me as somehow defending the crimes and sins that have happened. I couldn’t help but notice yet again no attempt to respond or refute anything I said. Especially the comment regarding an accuracy disclaimer on site you quoted quite a bit. Instead you go back to your usual strategy of trying to quote a lot of detail to create an illusion that your original claims have substance,

It is becoming quite obvious you can’t back most of what you say. You never responded to all those legitimate points in Paula’s post back on March 28. You got angry at me for pointing out the fact that you were blindly accepting the word of an adult that she was did not appear to be an innocent victim. She certainly was no child. I asked questions about what kinds of changes SNAP or you felt were need over and above what has been done so far and you gave me nothing. I pointed out a truth disclaimer and a case where SNAP was making claims (twice) that were obviously wrong based on the facts.

Exposing Truth – Protecting Kids and Adults – Not Predators!” I’m sorry to say that based on what I’ve seen here that is simply not true. Nothing I’ve seen from SNAP or you supports that. A better motto might be. Enriching Lawyers – Guilty until proven innocent.

Any chance you are going to actually answer some questions?

Anonymous: O’Brien and other bishop’s failures are the conclusions of 17 US and International Reports. I choose to find the reports creditable!

Any chance you are going to actually answer some questions?

Most have been answered. Many of the facts and answer are in the reports. Sadly, I feel you refuse to recognize or comprehend the obvious. That’s OK for us! But, Catholic children and adults remain in harms way with attitudes like yours. Well, that my opinion.

Exposing Truth – Protecting Kids and Adults – Not Predators!

snapmd@comcast.net - http://www.snapnetwork.org/

Frank none of my specific questions were answered. You keep blowing the same smoke about volumes of information some of which is questionable, others while valid doesn’t support claims you make. If it were true you’d have no problem summarizing and answering the questions. Let’s deal with the subject of this post.

Specifically allegations were made that “Archbishop Edwin F. O’Brien ignored sexual misconduct by chaplains when he headed the U.S. Archdiocese for the Military Services” Your support a lengthy list provided absolutely no proof that at the time any of the priests listed were in military service that O’Brien had any knowledge of any sexual misconduct. The fact that some may have eventually admitted to it doesn’t prove O’ Brien was aware if it at the time it occurred. You were asked by another individual you never answered the question. The source of some of your info bishop-accountability.org uses the following disclaimer

"BishopAccountability.org makes no claim regarding the accuracy of any document we post."

I’m not going to recount the other questions I’ve asked in the past because they won’t get any different of a response. I’ve never tried to deny the reality of abuse and the church’s crimes and sins in regard to it. However, I tend to find SNAP’s tactics of making accusations based on questionable or incomplete information of no benefit. As I’ve pointed out SNAP in the past has made accusations which were wrong.

Once again instead of answering questions and stating fact you try and shame me by making the comment you opinion of me. That’s ok my opinion is you are too consumed with anger to look at things objectively. Again with the adults in harms way nonsense. You have never provided anything to support those claims. Your trying to claim adults in harms way is insult to all those children who have suffered real abuse. Then again I doubt you are concerned if the abuse is real or fabricated as long as you can use it to attack the church and further SNAP’s vendetta and enrich your trial lawyer masters. For someone who claims to worry about children in harms way you never seem willing to discuss what can be done going forward. All I’ve seen from SNAP is criticism of any reforms that are made and no suggestions of what should be made. In truth nothing would satisfy SNAP. Sometimes I wonder if SNAP is even concerned with the current and future children.