Benedict is right, pre-marriage counseling can eliminate a lot of problems, many of which stem from the couple’s misunderstanding of the nature of marriage. Catholic couples often make the mistake of thinking that they can avail themselves of the protestant ease of just walking away when the going gets tough. The indissolubility of marriage is serious business.

The church has always held that no one has absolute right to marriage. This is nothing new. What is new is having our pews lined with divorced and remarried folk who, while their sacred marriages are still intact, are parading their adultery before the altar, receiving the Eucharist without absolution, and parenting children while in these unholy unions.

They have destroyed the traditional concept of marriage. I’m glad the Holy Father has stepped up to the plate to denounce this heterosexual menace.

More holier than thou disdain for heretics (people who think outside the box), Dana? Isn't so convenient that you have a dogmatic doctrine that allows you to condemn the actions of others, and the gall to call the people who express their disgust with your hypocritical behavior as being hateful. When I think of people who act in the despicable way you do, the term "HypoChristian" always springs to mind.

Littel what makes your behavior hateful isn't that you don't agree with Dana or what she says or believes. What makes it hateful is your need to belittle and ridicule. Instead of simply stating your view you have to attack the person and use appeals to ridicule. That is what makes you hateful.

(Clay) Anonymous - It must seem hateful to you to have your baseless prejudices exposed for what they are, especially since you believe you have a make-believe deity to give you a free pass to behave that way. Addressing evil for what it is, is not hate, it is called truth and to quote a popularly used movie line, "You can't handle the truth".

Littel the problem is that you haven't exposed anything except in your own mind. Posting endless rants where you insult believers and mock what they believe isn't exposing anything except your own intolerance, anger and hate. You have never at any point managed to make a logical arguement free of personal attacks, appeals to ridicule, irrelevant conclusions and other fallacies to support anything you claim.

In your opinion belief in God is belief in make-believe deity. It's not a fact because you repeat it over and over. It's not a fact because it can't be proven to your satisfaction. At the end of the day it is nothing more than an opinion no matter how much you want to convince yourself otherwise.

Everyone quit feeding the troll.

marf - Shunning doesn't work. If a thread needs a comment reflective of the rational perspective, it will get one. If the doctrinaire absolutists feel a need to defend their absurd positions, that is just a bonus, especially since they believe the myth that the last word, even if stupid, always wins.

Littel I'd love to hear the rational perspective. When are you going to provide it?

(Clay) Anonymous - Had you gotten the wax out of your ears and your head out of your .....well, you know, you would already realize you have heard the rational position, many times over.

Thanks for the compliment Robert. But I think anonymous was asking when YOU might say something rational.

Littel Tomas is correct all I've heard the rational position. I've just never heard it from you. The challenge was can you make a solely rational arguement devoid of appeals to ridicule, personal attacks and other tactics. Please don't insult anyone's intelligence by claiming you'vre already done it. You haven't.

(Clay) Anonymous, et al, - It is to be expected that people delusional enough to subscribe to infantile god concepts, would be delusionally intransigent when faced with any exposure of the nebulous nature of the foundations of their insipid beliefs, to the light of day. Your responses are exactly what one would expect from a five year old that has been told that Santa Claus is not real, on the day before Christmas. My only concern is that the institutions of religion want their gods and they want to feed them to me (and the rest of society) too. To the rational mind, religion is just a bowl of manure that you are trying to sneak onto the salad bar of life and you think that is OK because there are people out there scooping it up willingly and somehow enjoying the taste. No thanks, we don't need something that fetid and infected polluting what life offers us as choices.

Littel as I expected you responded with insults and appeals to ridicule. You have not exposed anything except perhaps your own self deluded belief that you have a rational mind. If that were true you'd have no problem stating your views without resorting to chilish name calling and ridicule. Your personal opinions on the subject of faith and God are just that your views. Why do you speak as if you represent some group. You are one person voicing your views and nothing more. You are about as irrational and illogical as anyone here. That you don't believe is your choice and your right You have every right to your opinions on God and religion. Calling anything you've said rational shows your own lack of knowledge of the word.

(Clay) Anonymous - You would be happy with nothing from me short of capitulation, or a total disappearance. That is why you keep spinning the same old pile of denigrating pap, you have nothing else. I, at least, get to make the case against religion, that could cause a casual visitor on the edge of delusionalism to re-evaluate their position and you provide the intractable religionist templet, showing religion to be what it is, a lie that doesn't know when its time to die.

I, for one, encourage you to post as often as possible Robert. You give atheists a bad name, thus discouraging other self worshipers the sad fate of the fires of hell.

Littel I tend to agree with what Tomas said myself. By all means post away. Make your case against religion. So far all I’m seeing is a lot of ridicule and irrational diatribes from you. You do far more to drive anyone unsure towards Christianity than I could. Your anger laced tirades of ridicule, intolerance and illogic do far more damage to the cause of atheism than anything.

Your lack of logic is matched by your arrogance. Everything isn’t about you. You aren’t the only atheist here. You are pretty much the only one showing distain, anger and intolerance for others who don’t share your beliefs. If you posted with more logic and reason like Bankstreet for example I doubt we’d have many exchanges. Sorry for mentioning you Bankstreet, but you are the best example of a nonbeliever conducting themselves with reason I could think of.

(Clay) Anonymous - I find it interesting that you agree with Torquemada because he is playing you like Colbert plays the Right-wing. He purports to represent your side of issues, but does so from the most outrageous doctrinaire and historically most embarrassing positions that your church has subscribed to over the centuries, right down to the choice of his moniker, that of "The Grand Inquisitor". You are such an easily played rube, in the true fashion of the idiot Clay.

Littel You are about as predictable as they come my friend. I anticipated you’d miss the point and go for what you perceive as ignorance. Since you believe all who believe in God to be of lesser intelligence you went right after it like a thirsty man in the dessert would drink sand because of a mirage. I am well aware of what he does. He said “I, for one, encourage you to post as often as possible Robert. You give atheists a bad name”. Just as now and then Colbert makes a statement containing truth so did Tomas this time. The one who got played was you. You walked right into it.

When are you going to make that case you keep bragging about?

Your flattery Robert in referring to me as The Grand Inquisitor" is wholly without merit. I am a mere humble servant servant of the church employing what little means are at my disposal to persuade the children of God to return home.

Tomas de Torquemada - I especially admire how considerate the Church was in converting the native savages of Central and South America, just before putting them to death. At least they went to their reward in Heaven as newly minted true believers. Keep up the good work.

Why do you refer to native Americans as savages Robert. We have no evidence that they were atheists.