This kind of reactionary response from the school is not unexpected. Being politically naïve they seem to have missed the point that deleting the comments would spread the opposing view much further than censorship.

Here's a link to a cached version of “Life as a gay teenager” which was deleted.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/14941078/kecensorcache.htm

The mere fact that I can post it and we can read it is testimony to the fact that the school's strategy backfired and turned their little corner of hate into a national example of prejudice. The writers they thought to silence are now being read around the world.

Keep bashing back kids!

If the bible says homosexuality is wrong then this church and school have every right to have policies that do not approve of homosexuality. When the bible says, "do not lie with another man. It is an abomination" we dont do anyone any good by taking the words and twisting them around for our cause. Homosexuals may say that the original word for "lie" in the original text only can only be interpreted as having too many ice creams after the Ravens game, causing another man to be overweight, and if you look at how overweight some people are it is an abomination. Or when the angels blinded the men in Sodom who wanted to come into the tent to "know" the men inside, the word know can only be interpreted in the original text as wanting to ask the men who they thought was best on "America's Got Talent." I applaud the school for taking a stand for God. A public school recently told a boy that he could not have an American flag on his bicycle. I suppose if he would have had a rainbow flag on a pink bicycle he would have been labeled a hero. We must stick up for God and for our rights as Americans, including our right to worship and to display the flag. Being politically correct needs to go out the window. I could insist that some women wear a color to support prostate cancer research. They could insist that I wear their color. Where does the battle get us? God and country are as correct as we need to be.

I don't think there is any question that the church has a legal right to censor its own newspaper. It's their school, it's their paper. Wisdom is when you know when to exercise your rights and when to refrain, however.

Now people are reading what Sean Simonson wrote as well as the 93 comments made by intelligent students before the school started deleting them. It leaves the school with egg on its face. As I said Clay the censorship had the exact opposite effect of what the school intended. I think that is the lesson here.

Now what was that you were saying about ice cream and “America's Got Talent," Clay?

The censorship did not have the opposite effect that the school intended. The school intended to let the students know that the bible says that homosexuality is wrong and that those who are the head of the school agree with it. What was wrong was allowing editorials to begin with. Once you let satan in the door then he will have all kinds of things to say about all kinds of subjects, even on "America's Got Talent." God bless.

Clay - Larry Flint had a special award he made every month in his magazine, to the biggest idiot he could find. Had he known of you, you would have no doubt been the first multiple winner of that award.

What the administrators said Clay was that “Benilde-St. Margaret’s School is committed to ensuring that all students are safe, respected, and protected. As a Catholic school, our responsibility is to respect and uphold the dignity of the vulnerable, including students who are attracted to the same sex. Section 2358 of the Roman Catholic Catechism says that men and women with homosexual tendencies must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity.”

Nowhere did the school say that “the bible says that homosexuality is wrong and that those who are the head of the school agree with it.” Where do you come up with this nonsense Clay?

Read the articles first before you go off making things up (lying) about what was said in them. This all started over a DVD about marriage and the removal of articles about same-sex marriage and gay teenagers. The school reiterated the Catholic view on marriage. They said nothing about “sin” or “wrong.”

By attempting to censor the paper the student's voice has reached over millions of people. If it had not been censored it would have only reached 1200 students and their parents. So the censorship failed.

The collision between free speech and a school usually ends up bad for free speech. This is even more apt to be true in a Roman Catholic school.

Kudos to these brave and loving students. One can hope their words got through to those who needed to hear them before they were silenced by the censors.

And censored they will stay. What needs to get through more than anything is that the church doesnt approve of homosexual relations, and it wishes that it had been more strict with it's opinion years ago. That way they wouldnt have so many gay priests to accept with "respect, compassion and sensitivity."

As i said earlier Billie, the attempt at censorship has spread the word to millions of people that otherwise never have been reached.

Censored it shall not stay.

You seem to be an expert on what the Church “wishes” it would have done in the past.

It is interesting that you choose not to take the Church's understanding of CCC 2358 seriously. Run for Pope Billie. Joe Ratzinger's got nothing on you!

Wow this clay person is a real religious nut case especially with because the bible says so how more brainwashed can u get.

On this blog it is two for the Lord and four against. Anyone else?

Stop acting like a twelve year old Clay.

Clay since when is disagreeing with you against the Lord. While I support the Church's view on homosexuality I have to agree with Dana that by trying to censor the only thing accomplished was the opposite. If one is sure of their own beliefs they shouldn't fear honest discussion.

Actually Dana I think a 12 year old would have a more mature response than 2 for the Lord and 4 against.

Anonymous, I find the Church's official stand internally consistent. The Church, in holding the view that sex is for procreation, prohibits a lot more than same sex unions. It bans contraception and masturbation, for instance. The underlying theology behind this is that the procreative act is the closest we come to a full spiritual, physical, and concrete understanding of God's greatest gift. We participate in the act of making man in God's image and likeness.

While I cannot accept this view in my own theology I can respect it when it is proclaimed by those who choose to live by all of the demands of chastity, not just the one they already didn't like (gay sex).

I do object to Catholic writers, bloggers, and lay folk who have confused their own prejudices with the clear and concise demands of the Catechism. They should read the book Truth and Tolerance that was written by the Pope when he was a Cardinal.

With that said we should realize that Catholics do not demand that Methodists or Baptists must give up birth control or refuse to remarry after divorce. And that is why I would I am still, and will always be Catholic.

If the school had encouraged open discussion it could have maintained the high ground. They could have done so while staying well within the teachings of the Church. By allowing LGBT students and their supporters to express their beliefs along side a commentary about what the Church holds to be true they would have guaranteed that their own position was heard. They could have further gained respect by censoring comments from both sides that resorted to personal attack and name calling. By so doing both sides would have come to see the school in the position of the moral high ground. Whatever side held the most influence at any particular moment the school would be seen as the final arbiter, by virtue of their moral stance on human dignity. Their stance on the subject at hand would be acknowledged but respected more for the fact that it was held at bay in a tertiary position, subservient to justice.

LGBT people are not going to go away. Neither is the Catholic church. They seem to have discounted the fact that the discussion will continue among the students in social media like Facebook, only now neither the school nor the church will have a voice.

School administrators should read my book, The Prince.

Allowing homosexual students to express their beliefs in an open discussion is no different than allowing an open discussion of students who believe that stealing, lying or cheating is ok as they see it. If God doesnt want us to do it, He doesnt want us to do it.

This is a discussion about a Catholic School with Catholic beliefs. It is not about what Clay thinks is O.K. It is about what the Catholic church teaches. The Catholic church teaches that LGBT people “must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. (CCC 2358). The key word is “accepted,” treating people with compassion means listening to them.

How we go about that is something we will decide without you.

You have shown us many times how much you dislike Catholics and Catholicism Clay. Your opinion of what a Catholic school ought to do is as about as worthwhile as a Klan members opinion of how the Civil Rights Act should be enforced.

I agree that people from any background must be treated with respect. However, any sin that any of us have shouldnt be "accepted." God doesnt want us to. We should absolutely listen with respect and empathy to anyone's problem. However, God doesnt want us to accept it to the point of appearing to approve of it. That is what is wrong with gay groups within the Catholic church that the church appears to approve of. You may go about deciding what do do without me or anyone, but not without God. I would be interested to hear what Catholics have to say about this issue. I only see about three or four on here. How about another ten or twenty? What does the Archbishop have to say about it? God bless.

Clay, maybe more Catholics would make an appearance here if you would refrain from referring to their church as the work of Satan.

The official position of the Archdiocese of St. Paul and Minneapolis as written by Archbishop John C. Nienstedt is this:

“A True homosexual condition involves an exclusive or predominant attraction to persons of the same sex. Is such a condition sinful? To the extent that such a condition is not deliberately willed, IT IS NOT A SIN.” (emphasis mine)

In other words, if you were born that way it is not sin.

“In view of every person's basic worth, the Church clearly teaches that those who experience homosexual inclinations should be treated with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Violence, hatred, and rejection directed toward persons is wrong and sinful.”

Key word in the context of what we are discussing is “rejection.”

“The Church's ministry is to be an expression of God's love that excludes no one.”

Key phrase in the context of what we are discussing is “excludes no one.”

“This means that the Church calls such persons to chastity, just as she calls all of her members to practice chastity.”

In other words the church does not single out LGBT people to live chaste lives. For the Catholic faith that means to avoid all sexuality that is not open to procreation. That's why masturbation and contraception are disapproved. That said, there is recourse through reconciliation for all.

That's what the Archbishop has to say about homosexuality Clay. I haven't heard that he has chimed in on this particular issue but I'm not sure it would matter. A priest can hold a personal opinion contrary to church doctrine (in either direction) just as any other Catholic may do so. I know you believe otherwise because your Chick comic book bible says that we are forced to obey Vatican law on the day we are baptized.

When you say that “I would be interested to hear what Catholics have to say about this issue,” I wonder if you realize that most Catholics are not interested in engaging you in dialogue. Judging from the Catholics who have posted here before like Ravensfan and Pattycakers, and of course our former seminarian Mr. Fuchs, I would guess two in agreement with Anonymous and one with me. Zero for you and your homophobic anti-Catholic comic book inspired theology. But hey, it's just a guess.

[“Another thing about Catholics is that they are too quiet. For gosh sakes, stick up for what is right.”
(Clay | November 18, 2010 6:43 PM)] O.K., if you insist!

For the record, Clay, I don't think there is any " gay group within the Catholic church that the church ... approves of."

Dignity is a group of Gay Roman Catholics who seek to remain loyal to their faith, while being honest about their orientation, but this group has never had the support of the Church hierarchy.

http://www.dignityusa.org/

Clay,

An open and frank discussion of specific situations / contexts in which "stealing, lying or cheating" might be something other than sinful would, I assume be welcome in a Catholic setting.

The oft-repeated example of whether you would lie if Hitler came to your door and asked if you were harboring Jews comes to mind. I would hope you would lie in that situation. Would you steal a loaf of bread to feed your starving family? I would hope you would.

Not everything is black and white, Clay. And ancient proscriptions against intrinsic, innate, and immutable same-sex attraction are just as open to loving reflection and accomodation. Just because you don't experience that attraction yourself, Clay, doesn't mean it is wrong. I happen not to be attracted to women; perhaps you shold be pleased I didn't write the Rules.

BankStreet, about twenty years ago Dignity was using Church space for their meetings and Masses. At length the faith was hijacked by the reactionary right and that was no longer an option. Up until about three years ago when Cardinal Keeler retired there was quite an above ground gay community within the Archdiocese of Baltimore. It was kept kind of quiet to prevent reprisals.

I remember being told, in a hushed tone, by an Archdiocese employee when I moved here that “we have to be careful, Rome is listening.” It had all the drama of a Dan Brown novel.

In other words, the Catholic church doesnt officially approve of homosexual groups within it. They cant when they are saying that sexual behavior that doesnt allow for procreation is wrong. You know the reason why Jack Chick has the tract about homosexuality? Because it teaches us some of the ways that gays want their position to be spread. One of the ways that they want this to happen is by teaching school students that this lifestyle should be accepted as normal, and they put pressure on us to do so. Is this what God wants for our schools? No. Do you really think that Mr. Chick wants us to hate gays, Catholics, etc? Why does someone think that? I dont hate them, and I have given out his tracts before. Like I have said, his tracts are a minority of what I have given out. This year I gave out one or two. Let me say this, even if Catholics, Muslims etc believe that he is full of hate, they sure learned a few things about their faith if they read the tract links here. Now who should they hate in return? Well no one on earth, but that guy below shouldnt be liked too much I would say. And if that is a result of the tracts, then they were a success. I tell you something else. My former stepfather was an avid Catholic his whole life. He couldnt stand the thought of gay groups meeting in the church. Are you sure you have the support of the majority of Catholics? It is hard for them to give support when they think about what homosexual priests have done to the church. My friend's Catholic parents feel the same way. If you dont want someone to be so closed minded about an issue, be sure to not be closed minded also. God bless.

I really don't care if I “have the support of the majority of Catholics.” My view is not the issue. I have not presented “my view” I have only presented what the Archbishop of the school in question has said.

The Body of Christ (the Church) is not a democracy young man.

Clay,

Like it or not, homosexuality is entirely and completely "normal." Maybe not for you (as heterosexuality is not "normal" for me) and maybe not "typical," but it is as much a part of Creation as is left-handedness, red hair, and Christianity (none of which is -- in the scheme of things -- "typical").

Clay so you are saying that making false statements about another denomination of Christians is not hateful besides being a violation of the ten commandments. Why is Jack Chick a recluse hiding from the world? One would thing someone spreading the light of the good news would not be afraid to be seen in the light of day.

The only thing I ever really learned from Chick Tracts was just how much one could twist the Good News into one of hate and paranoia.