In similar news Mabandla Dlamini was fined two cows and his girlfriend, Bongiwe Makhanya, was fined one cow for planting an ATM card in a grave. It seems the recession has hit the traditional folk of Swaziland as much as the rest of us.

http://www.times.co.sz/index.php?news=18936

Dana,
What was the purpose of planting ATM cards in graves? Another ritual? Amazing? Were they just burying their ATM cards because the cards deserved a send off to the underworld since there is no money in ATM machines in SWAZI? To make sure the common folk quake before these healers a skull here and a rattling skeleton there are absolutely essential I suppose but golly to bury ATM cards while they are at plotting their next ghoulish ritual--that sounds insane. There is no end in sight to the inanities that pervade this world. By the way Dana I don't think Robert means half of what he writes--he is simply an agent provocateur--arson and murder--no, no.. The man I am sure wouldn't hurt a fly.
R Anon

The rituals of the inyanga are not particularly ghoulish R-anon. At least no more than modern medicine. The use of human body parts for healing is as commonplace in our country as in Swaziland. There is likely (or at least, possibly) a difference in efficacy. But there is no "moral" difference between using a dead man's liver to save a living alcoholic's life than to use the bone of a dead man to save a man suffering from tuberculosis or poverty.

Except Dana a dead man's liver does take and work--although I do agree with you about such a transplant in an alcoholic or for that matter in fatty liver patients who are addicted to food and with their addictions ruin their new organs in no time at all-a waste of time and money such transplants in a society in deep dent--but I don't see the two circumstances you quote as being directly analogous--a dead man's bone can never save a man suffering from TB--even for a short time--even despite the placebo effect which is quite potent for healing--the tubercle bacilli I bet will trump any placebo effect because the critters are truly more ghoulish than any ritual, modern or ancient--bugs are this way always--and also placebo effect is never a cure for poverty, the misery of the lack of money and food being too real to eradicate with dug up human bones. I am not defending modern goulishness as opposed to ancient hideous rituals and I do see your point--I am only saying a liver transplant for an alcoholic however repugnant is not the equivalent of bones dug up to cure TB or poverty.
R Anon

I wasn't suggesting that the liver transplant was repugnant R-anon. Nor do i consider the saving of a human life "a waste of money." You are projecting your own values on me, which is a mistake.

The point is that the use of a dead man's finger bone or skull does no more harm to the dead than the use of his liver or cornea. What is going on in Swaziland now is a tyranny of the Christian majority on the minority,traditional, culture. It is a modern witch hunt.

Now we are cooking--we should save human lives Dana--but our resources are limited and we are neck deep in debt--I have seen several people who get these livers and actually throw them away into the sink holes of their behavior and people who would be truly dedicated to their new livers die for want of one--such inequities are common--so again don't be so prickly about about my values which you really don't understand very well. Unfortunately even in the most affluent nations with well funded health care systems, decisions are made to pick and choose who will and will not be saved. Many times those who are chosen are those with power and pull and several of these continue the behavior patterns that got them into trouble in the first place--before the transplant. I really want to know what you think about expensive organ transplants for people whose lifestyles are the primary causes of their organ failures--especially if they are adamant about not showing respect for their new organs--drinking, smoking and overeating until the day of transplant and soon thereafter. That said I disagree with you that the use of a finger or a bone does no more harm than the replacement of an organ. Both in reality can do harm. A transplant gives a person a new lease on life but also chains the person to a number of toxic anti-rejection drugs that can lead to cancer and diabetes. It is quite debilitating to take those drugs on a daily basis. Similarly from the pure medical point of view, the use of a skull or a bone in traditional rituals can delay treatment for TB, give false hope and actually lead to the demise of a TB patient who could easily be saved with medications--not that all these meds do not have side effects and I don't vindicate them as being good always--but they do save lives and delayed treatment can also be a public health hazard causing many more people to acquire TB while the ritualists are tantalizing common folks with bones and fingers dug out of graves. Is it the tyranny of the Christian majority on the traditional minority that is the problem or is it a case of modernism versus ancient rituals--is it also a case of public health concerns--the incidence of TB particularly resistant TB is very high in many parts of Africa and for this to be contained we need honest docs who bring appropriate treatments to communities before the devastating spread of this illness decimates entire populations. So while it may seem like the traditionalists of Swazi are being harassed is there another legitimate side to the story? I wish there were a method whereby the traditionalists could have their bone and finger straight out of the grave rituals and the modernists could have their medicines eradicate lethal diseases--both at the same time--sort of having one's cake and eating it too. The Christian majority may lack the tolerance level needed for that and modern medicine men usually refuse to collaborate with witch docs. Therein lies the rub.
R Anon

Don't be silly R-Anon. The decisions as to who gets the liver in the lunch cooler is not an easy one for those involved. Yet sometimes the decision is left to providence; how long it has been on ice, what airport is closest to the hospital where the organ was removed. I haven't yet met the surgeon, the medic, or the flight crew who has pontificated on the relative merits of the recipients lifestyle.

Playing God is your obsession.

In answer to your concern of how I "think about expensive organ transplants for people whose lifestyles are the primary causes of their organ failures" is hardly important since I am not the decision maker. But what I can tell you is that "expensive" doesn't enter my vocabulary when it comes to who shall live and who shall die. I don't think anyone's opinion of a person's moral or social"worthiness" has any place in such decisions.

You obviously didn't read my post. You said: "I disagree with you that the use of a finger or a bone does no more harm than the replacement of an organ."

Go back and read what I wrote: "...the use of a dead man's finger bone or skull does no more harm to the dead than the use of his liver or cornea."

I said it does no more harm to the dead, nothing more.

I did read it afterward and you are right--it does no more harm to the dead one or the other. But it can do much harm to the living as I have pointed out. May be the witch docs are taken to account because what they are doing can have repercussions for the living--although they are not being charged with a crime against the living but with desecrating graves the main concern could be for the public health consequences of their rituals. Medics and others do pontificate on the lifestyles of the recipients of these organs--these are excruciating questions in Medicine discussed as part of medical ethics courses--although the nearness of airports, the donors, the compatibility of organs given and so on determine who gets these organs and who does not (as you say providence). as resources shrink and demands increase, the insurance companies and governments dispensing health care dollars will be forced to make very difficult choices. This is an ultimate reality we all have to face, obsessed with playing god or not.
R Anon