I understand Anna Callahan's sentiment that "to forgive is divine."

But we can forgive people while still holding them accountable for their actions. All of us who are parents or spouses know how that works.

For me, I would feel gentler toward the Church if we still had the likes of John Paul II in power in Rome and Cardinal Keeler here at home. They were both calming influences. But that's personal. It has nothing to do with the facts.

The waves of accumulating scandal engulfing the roman catholic church will look a mere trifle compared to the 'perfect storm' that is shortly coming. For these growing, worldwide sexual scandals and endemic institutional corruption, having destroyed virtually any remaining 'moral' authority or presumption to understand human nature, are just setting the stage for the 'churches' worst nightmare: the questioning of it's very origins! And that has already begun on the web. Not by any atheist ravings, but with first wholly new interpretation for 2000 years of the Gospel/moral teachings of Christ. Redefining all primary elements, For the first time in history, however unexpected, the world must now measure for itself, the reality of a new claim to revealed truth, a moral tenet not of human intellectual origin, offering access by faith, to absolute proof, an objective basis for moral principle and a fully rational and justifiable belief!  This is not reformation but revolution. We may very well come to 'remember' the church as two thousands years of hubris, theological self deception, retailing a counterfeit copy of revealed truth. Check it at: http://www.energon.org.uk  

Here's my translation of the Archbishop's words: "There's no use crying over spilled milk." And pardon me for being crude, but what that really means in this case means is that the Catholic Church does not want to cry anymore over another milky substance which has been spilled in inappropriate encounters. But this very human desire to put the past behind us is freighted for them with the fact that it is really not the past. Morality can only come from good habits ultimately. In a pinch a strong will can keep something really bad from happening, but in general you have to have a healthful structure that encourages good behavior, and ameliorates the bad. For a whole constellation of theological reasons which are beholden to persistent medieval conceptions, the Catholic Church does not have this. Without it it is simple logic that they will have more problems. What is needed is not all the window dressing attempts at social currency which the 60's and 70's produced in the Catholic Church. These things did nothing to change the faulty structural issues, and bequeathed as an awful side-benefit some of the most smarmy and aesthetically solipsistic music and art the world has ever seen. All of this, including the poor art, results in a deadened spiritual sense which masquerades as something else. To wit, and by way of anecdote: My cousin called me recently from Miami to tell me about a series of lectures he had attended at the parish we all grew up in in Miami Shores. One was given by a guy I went to seminary with who went on to get a philosophy degree from the famous Catholic University of Louvain. My cousin said that he began his lecture by playing incoherently on his guitar and singing bizarrely, and then launched into a speech which sounded quite crazy. My cousin actually said in a hilarious voice: "Geeyod, this guy is crazier than I am!" He did add that his basic message was good, which jibed with my memory of the guy who was basically a decent fellow. But let me put it this way, I consider my cousin a great guy and a naturally shrewd judge of human nature, but hardly an arts critic or terribly picky on in terms of matters of conceptual delivery. So, for him to find this philosophical father frankly nuts in delivery shows the extremes of it. To me it is just another example of how the dreadful music and lowered expectations have produced a Catholic world which is a repository of spiritual Happy Meals in the guise of profounder philosophies. This by the way also limits the any real and useful moral deductions that people can make.

That issue reminds me of a nun that was on the formation faculty of Theological College in Washington, D.C. when I was
there 1985-87. For the life of me I can't remember her name, but she was quite typical of a sort of religious sister who quietly just assumed she had it all nicely figured out. But to show you how morally checked-out she actually was, consider this. One day she heard me at lunch describing my mother's family which had several osteopathic doctors in it. I mentioned that as a sort of family tradition I had learned how to remedy lumbar pains. Next thing I know this lady calls me on the phone in my room and tells me that she has a back pain and asks me if I would come to her faculty room to give her a treatment. Huh? You know I really didn't know what to say, but feeling somewhat pressured I went and gave her a treatment. But what I found funny was that she had none of the signs of lumbar pain, and I assumed she just wanted a massage. So this was the sort of moral integrity I encountered by this sort of nun who were supposed to be guiding our vocations. When I consider the moral space I try to give others, especially those much younger that I am, I find the actions of people like this nun simply incredible. But even more incredible is the fact that this person, who assumed a situation of power in other people's lives, also assumed that she had things just right spiritually. But, you know, she must have known she had done wrong, because after I left the seminary she called me up and asked to have lunch with me. My partner who had heard the story about her and disparaged her judgment therby told me to play it cool with her and find out what she wanted. Well, the lunch, which took place at Childe Harold's at Dupont Circle produced no insight in what she wanted, except that maybe she wanted to see if I would bring the incident up. I was too canny at that point for that. But it is significant that she never apologized. None of these people have ever apologized. I cannot compare the abuse I suffered with some of the more extreme cases. But still I feel that a significant part of my young adulthood was needlessly vexed and assaulted by the emotional abuse of people in authority treating that authority like some permission to be bizarre, It takes a toll on you. The day I get an apology from Catholic University for their bizarre and ultimately institutionally negligent and abusive treatment of me then I will know on a personal level that something has really changed in the Roman Church. And the same goes double for the Archdiocese of Miami. But as to that, and to the more serious amends due to others who suffered more than I, I think all the talk of healing the past is just strategic dissembling.

Anna Callahan, were you sexually abused by a priest, bishop, deacon, nun, sister, seminarian or other church affiliated worker?

Then you cannot forgive. Forgiveness is not yours to give.

Forgiveness belongs to the Lord and to the persons injured and in this case it would be those who were sexually violated. It is not the purview of those who haven't been abused.

Archbishop O'Brian speaks about the fact that the church still brings "a positive message to our people and the world."

Yes and no.

If the church is not bringing the RIGHT message to victims then its not bringing a "positive message to our people OR TO the world."

You either are or you aren't.

Sister Maureen Paul Turlish
Victims' Advocate
New Castle, Delaware
maureenpaulturlish@yahoo.com

I see it as being very simple, not that the hurt of the abuse goes away just like that or anything. However, the more this church becomes like Southern Baptists or black churches the better off it will be. What did Little Richard sing while playing the piano on tv? "I aint gonna fool around with no young boys no more, wooooooo!" In spite of any eccentricities, honesty and simplicity are always the best policies when it comes to Christianity.

Sister Maureen – Your have no right to comment on anyone’s right to forgive except your own. You seem willing to deny parents and family who may have suffered as a result the right to forgive as well. Also every Catholic was indirectly injured by what has happened and can certainly forgive the Church for that if they wish. Instead of attacking a person you know nothing about.

ravensfan,

I beg to differ. I am attacking no one. And btw, every member of the people of God has been injured by the actions of sexual predators who use their ministry to rape and sodomize children.

But the biggest betrayal of all that has been done is that done by church officials who made conscious informed decisions to cover up for and protect them while giving no thought to the victims, their families or the harm they were doing to the people of God.

quoted;
"The holiest day on the Christian calendar is not the appropriate time to discuss allegations that the Vatican covered up child sexual abuse by priests, Archbishop Edwin F. O'Brien said Sunday".

The holiest day (or any day) on the Christian calendar is not the appropriate time for a priest to sexually abuse an innocent child......!

...and many victims understand exactly what I am talking about ..

Judy Jones, SNAP Midwest Associate Director, snapjudy@gmail.com
http://www.snapnetwork.org/

Shame on the pope and his minions! The arrogant spin on clergy sexual abuse delivered to the public by the Catholic hierarchy is proof that it is time to remove the statute of limitation on sexual abuse in all states.

The Roman Catholic Church is the largest monarchy in the world. The Catholic monarchy is based in Rome, and operates under its own canon law, which the Church hierarchy believes trumps US civil and criminal laws. It is time for all US politicians to stand up for what is right and remove the statute of limitation on sexual abuse in this country. The Roman Catholic Church must be made to adhere to US laws, not their own canon law which they can skew to the hierarchy's own liking.

I am assumming the Anonymous poster who responded to me was Sister Maureen. Attack may have been the wrong word. However, it was rather arrogant of you to call someone out on the right to forgive. Believe it or not I agree with the rest of what you said in your post.

Archie's Mom, Church officials are and always have been subject to US laws. Canon law is used within the Church and among the faithful. The Vatican says Canon "laws bind those who have been baptized in the Catholic Church or received into it."

It is not a substitute for criminal or civil law. The United States isn't letting the Church off the hook, if that's what you thought.

Archie's Mom, what about all of the pedophiles that have harmed children at a far greater rate in public schools throughout the U.S? Where are all of the billions being paid out to their families? If you're so concerned about the welfare of those children, have you protested and attacked the public school system or sought to have the laws changed which protect those teachers or at least the schools' coffers?